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(Telegraph)   The IMF makes a suggestion that will cause US libertarians to crawl into a fetal position tightly clutching their copies of Atlas Shrugged softy murmuring "Ron Paul will save us. Ron Paul will save us"   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 401
    More: Unlikely, Atlas Shrugged, Ron Paul, International Monetary Fund, fiat moneys, intrinsic value, types of business, fractional reserve, money creation  
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25334 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2012 at 1:10 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-22 08:59:46 AM  
So wait, all we have to do is put Congress in charge of the money supply and everything will be wonderful and shiny? Have they MET our farking Congress?
 
2012-10-22 09:10:55 AM  

flucto: So wait, all we have to do is put Congress in charge of the money supply and everything will be wonderful and shiny? Have they MET our farking Congress?


There is much to what you say. But, have you seen how the banks have done so much to for us?
 
2012-10-22 09:24:33 AM  

jasonvatch: There is much to what you say. But, have you seen how the banks have done so much to for us?


I am not defending the Fed, but handing the money supply to Congress doesn't seem like a net upgrade. That the IMF thinks this is a good plan is not really comforting.
 
2012-10-22 09:44:16 AM  

flucto: jasonvatch: There is much to what you say. But, have you seen how the banks have done so much to for us?

I am not defending the Fed, but handing the money supply to Congress doesn't seem like a net upgrade. That the IMF thinks this is a good plan is not really comforting.


It does seem like we could jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. Part of me thinks 'better the devil you know is going to continue farking you over at every opportunity', rather than switch to a new method that gives control over to a body that will fark you over, you just don't know how badly yet.

Or am I too cynical?
 
2012-10-22 10:05:13 AM  

Slaxl: Or am I too cynical?


Take the money out of the hands of people that care only about money. That's progress; the rest we can figure out.
 
2012-10-22 10:07:03 AM  
PRIVATIZE MONEY RON PAUL!!!!
 
2012-10-22 10:25:39 AM  

Slaxl: flucto: jasonvatch: There is much to what you say. But, have you seen how the banks have done so much to for us?

I am not defending the Fed, but handing the money supply to Congress doesn't seem like a net upgrade. That the IMF thinks this is a good plan is not really comforting.

It does seem like we could jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. Part of me thinks 'better the devil you know is going to continue farking you over at every opportunity', rather than switch to a new method that gives control over to a body that will fark you over, you just don't know how badly yet.

Or am I too cynical?


Why on Earth would you keep using a system that you know for a fact is incredibly damaging just because you're afraid of a known system that has been proven to be historically stable - or so this study claims at any rate, I'm not expert. That's insane to refuse to switch. That's the same reasoning that a woman who is beaten by her husband every night uses.
 
2012-10-22 10:46:11 AM  

GAT_00: Slaxl: flucto: jasonvatch: There is much to what you say. But, have you seen how the banks have done so much to for us?

I am not defending the Fed, but handing the money supply to Congress doesn't seem like a net upgrade. That the IMF thinks this is a good plan is not really comforting.

It does seem like we could jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. Part of me thinks 'better the devil you know is going to continue farking you over at every opportunity', rather than switch to a new method that gives control over to a body that will fark you over, you just don't know how badly yet.

Or am I too cynical?

Why on Earth would you keep using a system that you know for a fact is incredibly damaging just because you're afraid of a known system that has been proven to be historically stable - or so this study claims at any rate, I'm not expert. That's insane to refuse to switch. That's the same reasoning that a woman who is beaten by her husband every night uses.


More like the same reasoning of a woman that is beaten by her husband contemplating leaving him, but the only other man who'll take her has an anger management issue and a history of violence.

But I suppose you're right, it is insane to accept a broken system simply because the unknown future is dark and scary. Better to try.
 
2012-10-22 11:07:20 AM  
Sounds like a great idea... but


2.bp.blogspot.com


Coming from the IMF???
 
2012-10-22 11:14:29 AM  

Amos Quito: Sounds like a great idea... but


[2.bp.blogspot.com image 578x522]


Coming from the IMF???


From the paper:

This Working Paper should not be reported as representing the views of the IMF.
The views expressed in this Working Paper are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily represent
those of the IMF or IMF policy. Working Papers describe research in progress by the author(s) and are
published to elicit comments and to further debate.


Their bolding. PDF warning
 
2012-10-22 11:27:03 AM  
Since subby apparently thinks that anyone that disagrees with larger government and against the fed is either a Ron Paul fan or an Randian, allow me to clarify.

1. Ron Paul is not a libertarian, is not widely supported by libertarians.
2. Libertarianism is not the same as Randianism.

Back to the article. HELL NO. The IMF is farking insane. The solution to irresponsible deficit spending is to take over the private money supply? Like we're supposed to trust the government with money?

Riiiggggghhhhtttt.
 
2012-10-22 11:43:43 AM  

slayer199: 1. Ron Paul is not a libertarian, is not widely supported by libertarians.


the first part of that statement is true, the second part is pants-on-fire bullshiat. every self described libertarian i know is a paul fan

slayer199: 2. Libertarianism is not the same as Randianism.


in theory, no. in practice in the United States? almost every self-described Libertarian (note the Capital L) is a randite.
 
2012-10-22 11:52:27 AM  

slayer199: Ron Paul is not a libertarian, is not widely supported by libertarians.


i575.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-22 12:27:45 PM  
No fractional reserve banking? Good luck getting credit....
 
2012-10-22 12:30:55 PM  

Kazan: slayer199: 1. Ron Paul is not a libertarian, is not widely supported by libertarians.

the first part of that statement is true, the second part is pants-on-fire bullshiat. every self described libertarian i know is a paul fan

slayer199: 2. Libertarianism is not the same as Randianism.

in theory, no. in practice in the United States? almost every self-described Libertarian (note the Capital L) is a randite.


Uh, no. Ron Paul is supported by libertarian-leaning Republicans, not Libertarians. I don't know any Libertarians that support Ron Paul. He's a Republican with some libertarian-leaning ideas....

GAT_00: slayer199: Ron Paul is not a libertarian, is not widely supported by libertarians.

[i575.photobucket.com image 411x110]


Coming from a guy that thinks Reason is a Republican-backed magazine and is pro-police...I'll sleep well at night knowing you still have no understanding of the LP or libertarianism.
 
2012-10-22 01:12:57 PM  
Is anyone else annoyed at the British use of "pc" instead of the % sign?
 
2012-10-22 01:13:47 PM  
BTW:

We return to the historical norm, before Charles II placed control of the money supply in private hands with the English Free Coinage Act of 1666.

Yeah, this isn't going to alarm any conspiracy theorists.
 
2012-10-22 01:14:17 PM  

vartian: Slaxl: Or am I too cynical?

Take the money out of the hands of people that care only about money. That's progress; the rest we can figure out.


Giving it to Congress doesn't do that.
 
2012-10-22 01:15:00 PM  
Yep

Europe is not bailing out Greece.

It's bailing out the bankers.

It's time to tell them to fark off.
 
2012-10-22 01:15:09 PM  
Make it so.
 
2012-10-22 01:15:50 PM  

Arkanaut: Is anyone else annoyed at the British use of "pc" instead of the % sign?


Yes, we should bomb them immediately.
 
2012-10-22 01:15:59 PM  

slayer199: Uh, no. Ron Paul is supported by libertarian-leaning Republicans, not Libertarians. I don't know any Libertarians that support Ron Paul. He's a Republican with some libertarian-leaning ideas....


almost every farking Libertarian i have ever met is just a randite republican embarassed to call themselves republican.

there are almost not "little l" libertarians in the united states. which you're trying to claim to be. and quite frankly i don't buy what you're selling based on your posting history.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-10-22 01:16:22 PM  
Ron Paul libertarians = Corporate Anarchists.
 
2012-10-22 01:16:54 PM  

slayer199: Uh, no. Ron Paul is supported by libertarian-leaning Republicans, not Libertarians. I don't know any Libertarians that support Ron Paul. He's a Republican with some libertarian-leaning ideas....


LOL
 
2012-10-22 01:17:16 PM  

Arkanaut: Is anyone else annoyed at the British use of "pc" instead of the % sign?


YES
 
2012-10-22 01:17:38 PM  
Bankers, as they are at present, are not so great, but would a return to a medieval-style economy be better? Not likely.
 
2012-10-22 01:17:54 PM  
an end to fractional reserve banking is a tenet of right libertarianism. Not sure whatchoo mean, subs
 
2012-10-22 01:18:50 PM  
Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, Libertarians, and Fiscal Conservatives have been calling for doing away with the Fed and the existing banking system for over ten years. Subby's ignorance is sadly on display.

///If anyone will be found on the floor in the fetal position it would be Obama and all of his hedge fund friends that pay $35-50k per plate every night to feast with him.
 
2012-10-22 01:18:53 PM  

Kazan: slayer199: Uh, no. Ron Paul is supported by libertarian-leaning Republicans, not Libertarians. I don't know any Libertarians that support Ron Paul. He's a Republican with some libertarian-leaning ideas....

almost every farking Libertarian i have ever met is just a randite republican embarassed to call themselves republican.

there are almost not "little l" libertarians in the united states. which you're trying to claim to be. and quite frankly i don't buy what you're selling based on your posting history.


Ron Paul is a neo-confederate farkwit... much like most big Ls
 
2012-10-22 01:18:56 PM  

vartian: Take the money out of the hands of people that care only about money.


Hope you're willing to get violent. And be ready with the party purges, because money tends to change the people whose hands it lands in.
 
2012-10-22 01:19:00 PM  

slayer199: Kazan: slayer199: 1. Ron Paul is not a libertarian, is not widely supported by libertarians.

the first part of that statement is true, the second part is pants-on-fire bullshiat. every self described libertarian i know is a paul fan

slayer199: 2. Libertarianism is not the same as Randianism.

in theory, no. in practice in the United States? almost every self-described Libertarian (note the Capital L) is a randite.

Uh, no. Ron Paul is supported by libertarian-leaning Republicans, not Libertarians. I don't know any Libertarians that support Ron Paul. He's a Republican with some libertarian-leaning ideas....

GAT_00: slayer199: Ron Paul is not a libertarian, is not widely supported by libertarians.

[i575.photobucket.com image 411x110]

Coming from a guy that thinks Reason is a Republican-backed magazine and is pro-police...I'll sleep well at night knowing you still have no understanding of the LP or libertarianism.


I don't see where you get that from. Anti-democrat for sure and for good reason since they do the things the LP hates and doesn't come though on the promises of social liberty either. Reason has no support for a police-state or the endless foreign wars and military presence which along with the religious aspect is was sets LP apart from the GOP.
 
2012-10-22 01:19:05 PM  
Ron Paul is not Libertarian in the same way that Bush or Romney "aren't really conservatives"
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-10-22 01:19:57 PM  

tomcatadam: Ron Paul is not Libertarian in the same way that Bush or Romney "aren't really conservatives"


Q.E.D.
 
2012-10-22 01:20:32 PM  
IMF? Unbelievable.
 
2012-10-22 01:20:36 PM  
 
2012-10-22 01:21:15 PM  
"Specifically, it means an assault on "fractional reserve banking". If lenders are forced to put up 100pc reserve backing for deposits, they lose the exorbitant privilege of creating money out of thin air."

So... one of Ron Paul's positions?

And besides, the does the IMF do besides screwing over debt-ridden developing countries?
 
2012-10-22 01:22:08 PM  
Subby, you're trolling, and I'm pretty sure you don't know anything about banking, libertarians, monetary policy, or much else. But this is an interesting link, so thanks for that.
 
2012-10-22 01:22:09 PM  
"crawl into a fetal position tightly clutching their copies of Atlas Shrugged"

That is how they roll!
 
2012-10-22 01:22:56 PM  
This is a really stupid idea because we would be bankrupting ourselves.


Here's a quick and fascinating breakdown by total amount held and percentage of total U.S. debt, according to Business Insider:

The U.S. Treasury: $1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)
Social Security trust fund: $2.67 trillion (19 percent)
U.S. households: $959.4 billion (6.6 percent)
Private pension funds: $504.7 billion (3.5 percent)
State and local governments: $506.1 billion (3.5 percent)
Mutual funds: $300.5 billion (2 percent)
Commercial banks: $301.8 billion (2.1 percent)
State, local and federal retirement funds: $320.9 billion (2.2 percent)
Money market mutual funds: $337.7 billion (2.4 percent)


Hong Kong: $121.9 billion (0.9 percent)
Caribbean banking centers: $148.3 (1 percent)
Taiwan: $153.4 billion (1.1 percent)
Brazil: $211.4 billion (1.5 percent)
Oil exporting countries: $229.8 billion (1.6 percent)
United Kingdom: $346.5 billion (2.4 percent)
Japan: $912.4 billion (6.4 percent)
China: $1.16 trillion (8 percent)

We owe foreign firms, countries, and other entities about 4.5 trillion dollars and we owe US firms, people, and entities 9.8 trillion dollars.

Why the fark would we the American People cancel the debt or default? How does that make any sense at all?
 
2012-10-22 01:23:05 PM  
Lots of bickering between the big and little ell libertarians.
 
2012-10-22 01:23:10 PM  
It's not such a terrible idea depending on the particular flavor of democracy that your country uses. To give you an example in the Canadian system (parliamentary democracy) you just need to make sure that any major changes to monetary policy are confidence votes, then you need to make damn sure that nobody gets a majority government ever again.
 
2012-10-22 01:23:14 PM  

nmemkha: Does anyone know how we got into this mess?


Yes, step into my way-back machine and I'll take you and a journey to 1999 Link
 
2012-10-22 01:23:38 PM  
Meh, there have always been poor and rich. In the past revolution was the tool for equalizing...and so it shall be again.

We arent even close to that point yet. As long as people can still afford $5 cups of coffee and iproducts by the ton, then things will keep going.
 
2012-10-22 01:23:38 PM  

Kazan: in theory, no. in practice in the United States? almost every self-described Libertarian (note the Capital L) is a randite.


Most (big L) Libertarians have never read one of her books already through nor can discuss what her beliefs are so - no - I don't think most (big L) Libertarians in the US are followers of rand.

/there is a reason for that - Rand was an awful writer
 
2012-10-22 01:26:42 PM  

vartian: Slaxl: Or am I too cynical?

Take the money out of the hands of people that care only about money. That's progress; the rest we can figure out.


Everyone cares about money. They're humans.
 
2012-10-22 01:27:01 PM  

Nightsweat: Arkanaut: Is anyone else annoyed at the British use of "pc" instead of the % sign?

Yes, we should bomb them immediately.


Agreed
 
2012-10-22 01:27:23 PM  

Elegy: No fractional reserve banking? Good luck getting credit....


Is this a very subtle joke? Or are you trying to ironically ask a question emphatically stated in the article? The point was to end fractional reserve lending and eliminate the boom-bust credit cycle, so yes there would be no credit to go around.
 
2012-10-22 01:28:36 PM  

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Elegy: No fractional reserve banking? Good luck getting credit....

Is this a very subtle joke? Or are you trying to ironically ask a question emphatically stated in the article? The point was to end fractional reserve lending and eliminate the boom-bust credit cycle, so yes there would be no credit to go around.


I think his point is that having near zero credit for consumers is a bad thing.
 
2012-10-22 01:29:23 PM  
Actually, that's kind of one of the suggestions of the Austrian School 'O Economics. If you want to spin up your libertarian friends, tell 'em you are in favor of "Fiat Currency"/
 
2012-10-22 01:29:33 PM  

Kazan: slayer199: 1. Ron Paul is not a libertarian, is not widely supported by libertarians.

the first part of that statement is true, the second part is pants-on-fire bullshiat. every self described libertarian i know is a paul fan

slayer199: 2. Libertarianism is not the same as Randianism.

in theory, no. in practice in the United States? almost every self-described Libertarian (note the Capital L) is a randite.


If they are self described libertarians that support Ron Paul, they are Republicans. Find an actual libertarian and you'll find that they usually think he is a racist steeplechaser with Alzheimer's.
 
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