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(CBC)   Armstrong stripped of Tour de France titles, Moon Landing   (cbc.ca) divider line 483
    More: News, Tour de France, UCI, Court of Arbitration for Sport, Johan Bruyneel, Contador, Andy Schleck, Floyd Landis, Pat McQuaid  
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7321 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Oct 2012 at 8:44 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-22 12:06:04 PM  

Bigjohn3592: lohphat: drewsclues: And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.

And yours describes the Democrat platform; whining rather than doing.

I'd rather have a Democratic party that whines about lying and cheating instead of the GOP which embraces those values wholeheartedly.

HAHAHHAHAHhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

You don't think the Dems are about lying and cheating too? Patheticly funny. They just do it while hugging you.

/ Amused by people who criticize Romney for lying in the debates. You tune into a lying contest where two liars lie to each other and the public, and then take exception when one does it better than the other.


I never said Democrats are above cheating, but it's not part of their core strategy.
 
2012-10-22 12:08:05 PM  

Zizzowop: Given how physically fit he was/is, like Lewis Black said, the question isn't was he doping, the question is why aren't we all doping.


I wish I was as concise!
Well done.
 
2012-10-22 12:08:40 PM  
JohnBigBootay

Zizzowop: Given how physically fit he was/is, like Lewis Black said, the question isn't was he doping, the question is why aren't we all doping.

With EPO - good luck. Some supremely fit cyclists have died in their sleep while trying to pump the old catchup blood. I know what you are saying, 'just take blood thinners!'. Well, there's the guy who bled out from a miinor injury from taking to many blood thinners to counter the EPO.

At any rate, yeah, EPO can increase you athletic performance if you train properly... but it's dangerous shiat. I for one, do not like the idea of sleeping with a heart monitor to wake me up if it slows down too much so I can hop on an exercise bike to get it going again.

In the words of one guy...

"During the day we live to ride, and at night, we ride to stay alive"

Sounds like great fun, no? 


In 2006 I spent 6 weeks doing some mountain biking in the Cordillera Blanca near Huaraz, Peru. Huaraz was my lowest elevation 10,000 feet and most of the riding I did was over 12,000 as high as 16,500 feet.
Coming back home with that acclimatization it was staggering the difference in my riding, if I was climbing say 1000 feet of elevation in an hour normally, I was probably doing 1250 feet per hour. Would have never believed it. I also maintained this acclimatization for a month or so which I would have not thought possible. Mind you, I acclimate well, which may be why I retain it well.
What blows the mind is that you can get that 20% in a syringe or a blood transfusion. If you read the Reasoned Decision and see how the doctors manage the doping you realize it is virtually impossible to get caught. Tempting.....very tempting.....
 
2012-10-22 12:09:27 PM  

browntimmy: drewsclues: Tyrone Slothrop: drewsclues: lohphat: drewsclues: earthwirm: In before the Lance haters.... Oh. Too late. Everyone hates a winner.

There's a a lot of smug whining in this thread. I glad you all attribute such high morals to riding a goddam bicycle. Get over it. Winners take every advantage and bend every rule. If you you're not cheating, you're not trying. Period.

You sound Conservative.

Liberal as they come. I just don't think sports matter enough in the world to get all pissed when someone bends to rules to their advantage. Don't want to get pissed when people make money off cheating at sports? Stop paying billions to the people that play the games. Simple as that.

And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.

And yours describes the Democrat platform; whining rather than doing.

It's hilarious that you think the position, "people shouldn't cheat" is whining. Sorry about the shiatty parents and role models you had.


I agree with you, people shouldn't cheat. But they do and sometimes they win, and most of them are never caught. Cheaters will always win. Accept it. It's way past the time to get outraged about people bending the rules. Someone biatching about something that happens all the time and continues to biatch about it when it happens over and over and over is a whiner.
 
2012-10-22 12:10:53 PM  

lohphat: Joe Blowme: Unless they are cheating the immigration system, welfare, elections, ect... you know... the shiat that actually matters then its ok to right?

You're including the employers that willingly and knowingly hire undocumented workers to protect their profits right? Do you think those people are working in crappy slave conditions because they want to?

Want to solve the immigration problem? Jail a few agribusiness and construction CEOs and seize their assets for hiring undocumented workers. They're creating the employment market drawing them here.


Right, its not the sanctuary cities and welfare bennefits luring them here. Which party again is against voter ID, implements sanctuary cities, and gives DLs to illegals? But cheating is bad right?
 
2012-10-22 12:10:55 PM  

Molavian: What a f*cking liar. I knew that damn testicular cancer thing was a cover-up! He had one of his balls surgically removed to be a more competitive cyclist! His junk could then all flop to the same side when biking, allowing him to sprint more easily than those with both testicles!!

!!!!


Yeah, that's Robin Willams, Cheater!
 
2012-10-22 12:12:53 PM  
cyclingteammovistar.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-22 12:12:57 PM  

Skarekrough: machoprogrammer: In before the Lance apologists

I won't apologize for him.

However no one gave a crap about cycling before him and no one will likely give a crap about the sport after him.

In between his influence generated millions upon millions for bike manufacturers, clothing makers, membership fees for bicycle race orgs and Christ knows what else.

It's a dumb move to shorten that gravy train a single day longer than it needed to be. For the sake of all parties involved investigations should have concluded for everyone racing, organizing and coaching before they'd outed him.

I know....I know. "Bicycling doesn't need a cheater." Sure. Right. Like the past fifteen years of near light-speed advancements in cycling would have happened without him on the merits of a sport no one gave a shiat about.

Keep thinking that. It'll be important to remember when they're tearing down the velodrome to make way for a skate park.


In the US... I am sorry that you've only had one competent racer all this time. Now it's back to non-relevance.
 
2012-10-22 12:17:53 PM  

steve_wmn: Indurain, like Armstrong made several attempts at the TdF with mediocre results.

that like saying umm Derek Jeter is not a good baseball player
Miguel beat some top riders who were the best of all time, including Delgado whom he rode for.

Then both of them consulted with Italian EPO doping experts (Indurain with Francesco Conconi, Armstrong with Conconi's disciple Ferrari) and started winning the TdF several years in a row.
source?

Indurain outsmarted Lance by taking his palmares, retiring and living a nice quiet life. Armstrong did anything but and it has back fired on in enormously.
Indurain was going to sign with ONCE, but left cycling because Banesto forced him to ride the Vuelta in 1996, not our proudest team moment.

what else ya got?
 
2012-10-22 12:17:56 PM  

waterrockets: Headso: hopefully this will reduce the number of douchebag cyclists using roads for exercise equipment and inconveniencing everyone else as they do it.

Nope. I don't know anybody in my local racing community who does it because of Lance or anyone else.

So roads are single use? Mostly to take your 6000 lbs vehicle to go buy 17 lbs worth of groceries?


yeah roads are for commerce and they are paid for with gas taxes. People are nice enough to let cyclist douches use them as exercise equipment but instead of acknowledging that and respecting their primary purpose and those people using them for their primary purpose cyclists ride on roads with no shoulder or break down lane or if they are they ride as close to the lane people are driving in as possible. So every last person that passes them has to slow down. One cyclist douche riding his stupid road bike around town for excise probably inconveniences hundreds if not thousands of people, no other recreational activity does that including other forms of biking.
 
2012-10-22 12:19:41 PM  

mbillodeaux: Zizzowop: Given how physically fit he was/is, like Lewis Black said, the question isn't was he doping, the question is why aren't we all doping.

I wish I was as concise!
Well done.


We should be celebrating Armstrong, rather than castigating him.

Dock Ellis' no-hitter on LSD is a greater accomplishment than all seven of Nolan Ryan's...although this...

media.komonews.com

...outshines them all.
 
2012-10-22 12:21:13 PM  

TheOther: mbillodeaux: Zizzowop: Given how physically fit he was/is, like Lewis Black said, the question isn't was he doping, the question is why aren't we all doping.

I wish I was as concise!
Well done.

We should be celebrating Armstrong, rather than castigating him.

Dock Ellis' no-hitter on LSD is a greater accomplishment than all seven of Nolan Ryan's...although this...

[media.komonews.com image 320x348]

...outshines them all.


Nolan Ryan rules.
 
2012-10-22 12:21:26 PM  

TheOther:

We should be celebrating Armstrong, rather than castigating him.

 
2012-10-22 12:21:34 PM  
And while I'm at it, if you think you are saving gas and the planet by riding your bike to work if you are making every car that goes by you put their brakes on to avoid hitting your retarded ass then you are not saving the planet, you are probably causing more gasoline to be used than if you just drove a hummer to work.
 
2012-10-22 12:22:27 PM  

Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.


Bill Russell Agrees
 
kab
2012-10-22 12:24:46 PM  

expobill: [cyclingteammovistar.files.wordpress.com image 500x286]


Delgado = probenecid
 
2012-10-22 12:28:07 PM  

New Age Redneck: If you read the Reasoned Decision and see how the doctors manage the doping you realize it is virtually impossible to get caught. Tempting.....very tempting.....


Sounds like microdosing is the way to go.... Especially for me - mediocre at best on the flats, yet absolutely horrible in the hills. Thank god for mountain biking I say! It's still fun but it's hard to see how much I suck for all the trees in the way.

steve_wmn: Lemond's miracle recovery from dud in the Giro to winner of the TdF in 1989? Iron shots, totally.


And that's why it's worth it see see cycling cleaned up once and for all and a perfect illustration of why doping is so insiduous. Human beings on occasion ARE capable of periodic amazing feats seemingly out of nowhere. Like Bob Beamon. But unless the drugs are ceased they'll all just be written off to PED's instead of celebrated for the amazing feats they were.
 
2012-10-22 12:28:20 PM  

Joe Peanut: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

Which is why they should investigate Michael Schumacher. He must have been injecting nitrous oxide into his engine.

/derp


Schumacher's not exactly the best example of a clean winner. Lots of FIA/Ferrari Shenanigans, and several race suspesnions during his Benetton days for team cheating, plus they weren't 7 consecutive.

/Still one of the two best ever
//Senna
 
2012-10-22 12:30:10 PM  

Headso: And while I'm at it,


While you're at it... just GTFO already. We get it - you don't ride bikes. That's cool dude. Very cool.
 
2012-10-22 12:30:13 PM  
I'll preface this by saying that Lance is a stereotypical type-A, cocky, texan jackhole.... but it was this jackholery that also enabled him to compete at that level after cancer.

Cycling is a corrupt sport full of filthy, dirty dopers & always has been. In the 60s & 70s they pedaled on meth & in the 80s & 90s on 'roids. This is the era of blood doping, hgh & designed recovery hormones.

Lance was 'in compliance' with the tests he was given at the time of victory, anything else is just ex post facto BS. I'm not some fan saying 'Elvis never did no drugs' I'm sure Lance was doping, just like the rest of the riders in the peloton. His body just took to the doping a little better than they did. Maybe a future rider will experiment with nut cancer drugs trying to find Lance's edge, but he was still beating a bunch of dopers just like himself so I don't see the problem except for all that hypocrisy pedaling up the mountain in the peloton.

Unless they vacate every victory of every cyclist & give the Tour, Giro & Vuelta titles to Christophe Bassoons they are just blowing smoke up your ass about the doping thing.
 
2012-10-22 12:35:01 PM  

Dopgang: but he was still beating a bunch of dopers just like himself


No, not JUST like himself. The other teams didn't have the benefit of a sponsor making a giant 'donation' to the testing authority and occasional early warnings. The other teams almost certainly didn't have all eight other riders on a sophisticated doping system - they had a doper here, a doper there, not the team wide coordinated effort of team armstrong. And they certainly didn't have all of Ferrari's microdosing/saline expertise.
 
2012-10-22 12:38:22 PM  

expobill: steve_wmn: Indurain, like Armstrong made several attempts at the TdF with mediocre results.
that like saying umm Derek Jeter is not a good baseball player
Miguel beat some top riders who were the best of all time, including Delgado whom he rode for.

Then both of them consulted with Italian EPO doping experts (Indurain with Francesco Conconi, Armstrong with Conconi's disciple Ferrari) and started winning the TdF several years in a row.
source?

Indurain outsmarted Lance by taking his palmares, retiring and living a nice quiet life. Armstrong did anything but and it has back fired on in enormously.
Indurain was going to sign with ONCE, but left cycling because Banesto forced him to ride the Vuelta in 1996, not our proudest team moment.

what else ya got?


Consulting with Conconi since 1987: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Indurain#Physical_advantages. All that stuff about his amazing physical advantages on Wikipedia? Yeah, doping does that for you, especially the VO2Max numbers. The lung capacity number is meaningless except as a psychological tool. Got smaller lungs? Breathe faster, problem solved.

And just like Lance, when Indurain made him amazing turn around from time trial specialist to all-round rider and tour winner they said it was because he lost weight under supervision from an Italian Doctor who is mostly famous for his expertise in EPO administration and passing doping tests http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Conconi.
 
2012-10-22 12:39:25 PM  

kab: expobill: [cyclingteammovistar.files.wordpress.com image 500x286]

Delgado = probenecid


Delgado wore the "maillot jaune" for eleven days, and passed doping tests every day. There was no trace of probenecid nor steroids in any other test. He affirmed that he would always be grateful for the support received from the French public during those days.

/sorry i need to defend my riders!
 
kab
2012-10-22 12:41:07 PM  

JohnBigBootay: And that's why it's worth it see see cycling cleaned up once and for all and a perfect illustration of why doping is so insiduous. Human beings on occasion ARE capable of periodic amazing feats seemingly out of nowhere. Like Bob Beamon. But unless the drugs are ceased they'll all just be written off to PED's instead of celebrated for the amazing feats they were.


Cycling is not going to 'clean up', especially when you consider how grueling some of the races are. As I stated earlier, drug testing has been going on for almost 5 decades now in the sport, and the only thing that has changed is the cat and mouse game involved.

But you're correct, you won't see any amazing mountain stages happening, without the first assumption going through most minds that "well, he's clearly doping".
 
2012-10-22 12:41:42 PM  
LOl, all this to do about guys riding bicycles.
 
2012-10-22 12:42:18 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: The medals will go to racers who's doping hasn't been caught yet.


is that how it works?

i figured they would just strip his title and that's it. like the NCAA did to PSU - it's not like they went back 30 years and gave every team they beat and extra win - the wins are just vacated.
 
2012-10-22 12:42:41 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Dopgang: but he was still beating a bunch of dopers just like himself

No, not JUST like himself. The other teams didn't have the benefit of a sponsor making a giant 'donation' to the testing authority and occasional early warnings. The other teams almost certainly didn't have all eight other riders on a sophisticated doping system - they had a doper here, a doper there, not the team wide coordinated effort of team armstrong. And they certainly didn't have all of Ferrari's microdosing/saline expertise.


Umm, bullchit. No human could ride in that group w/o the "spice".

The lesson here is don't fark Rup Murdoch.
 
2012-10-22 12:43:26 PM  

JeffDudeLebowski: BIIIIIIIIIIII-cycle

BIIIIIIIIIIII-cycle

BIIIIIIIIIIII-cycle

I want to ride my bicycle I want to ride my biiiike I want to ride my biCYCLE I want to ride it where I liiiiiiiike

but i can't because I got buuuuuuuusted!


don't be such a queen
 
2012-10-22 12:44:12 PM  

Cheron: Armstrong stripped of Tour de France Titles, staged Moon Landing

and sham marriage to Sheryl Crow. 
FTFY
 
2012-10-22 12:46:45 PM  
When is the hanging scheduled?

Does everyone have their pitchforks and torches?
 
2012-10-22 12:51:55 PM  
Alright, is it just me or is ALL of this evidence against him hearsay? By people that didn't win and former butthurt teammates no less...
The evidence was so scant in fact, that federal prosecutors DROPPED the case against him due to lack of evidence.
 
2012-10-22 12:54:05 PM  
Never trust a bicyclist
 
2012-10-22 12:54:18 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: LOl, all this to do about guys riding bicycles.


Guys that make more money riding bicycles in 10-15 years than you'll make in your lifetime. Professional cycling is the best paying sport available to endurance athletes. With that big money comes big incentives to cheat.
 
2012-10-22 12:56:05 PM  

Dopgang:
Unless they vacate every victory of every cyclist & give the Tour, Giro & Vuelta titles to Christophe Bassoons they are just blowing smoke up your ass about the doping thing.


That was one of the more insightful comments on this thread.

Regardless of whether or not Lance doped, if the UCI just turns around and immediately hands the titles to the next person in line then it shows that this whole thing had nothing to do with doping and more to do with pursuing one individual.

Cycling is a dirty sport - always has been. The truth of the matter is that many, perhaps most of the riders on the Tour dope. Anyone who believes otherwise is completely delusional. All Lance did was beat them at their own game (making a lot of enemies along the way, of course).
 
2012-10-22 12:56:42 PM  
On a related note, the members of Kraftwerk were stripped of their bicycles.
 
2012-10-22 12:56:44 PM  

mikaloyd: Never trust a bicyclist


hey!
 
2012-10-22 12:57:44 PM  

steve_wmn: Contrabulous Flabtraption: LOl, all this to do about guys riding bicycles.

Guys that make more money riding bicycles in 10-15 years than you'll make in your lifetime. Professional cycling is the best paying sport available to endurance athletes. With that big money comes big incentives to cheat.


No doubt there's a lot of money in it, which actually makes it even more ridiculous that we're paying so much attention to men riding bicycles.
 
2012-10-22 12:58:01 PM  
Democrats like downtrodden helpless people who lack effective voices. Republicans like rich people who buy what they want. Both parties strive to turn all of America into the kind of people they like.
 
2012-10-22 12:58:05 PM  

DeathCipris: Alright, is it just me or is ALL of this evidence against him hearsay?


People in this thread keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
2012-10-22 12:59:43 PM  

mikes73:

Cycling is a dirty sport - always has been. The truth of the matter is that many, perhaps most of the riders on the Tour dope. Anyone who believes otherwise is completely delusional. All Lance did was beat them at their own game (making a lot of enemies along the way, of course).


i think not, the sport is clean because we scrubbed some dirty dishes and put them away today.
there are more clean riders than dirty ones which is a fact due to team carrying 20 or more riders, which a few failed tests this season.
happy cycling!
 
2012-10-22 12:59:46 PM  

expobill: mikaloyd: Never trust a bicyclist

hey!


Are you trustworthy?
 
2012-10-22 01:01:35 PM  

DeathCipris: Alright, is it just me or is ALL of this evidence against him hearsay?


Yet another buffoon with no understanding of the definition of 'hearsay'. Hint - a witness describing what he has seen directly is not in any way shape or form hearsay. It's really quite simple, that's called eyewitness testimony - and we use it convict rapists and murderers every day of the week. So in answer to your question, it's just you. Look, if Lance has a brain is his head and is not - as I fear, a high functioning sociopath - he'll be confessing himself shortly and speaking the lamest way too late halfhearted apology you've ever heard. Will THAT be enough for you?
 
2012-10-22 01:01:52 PM  

sleep lack: Dude had cancer 16 years ago and still alive.
/WINNING


Dude had low-risk seminoma testicular cancer. Compared to some other cancers, that's just slightly worse than a bad head cold. Even with metastatic disease, you can still get >90% chance at a durable remission with surgical resection, radiation, and four cycles of etoposide + cisplatin, like Lance got (and he wasn't metastatic).
 
2012-10-22 01:03:34 PM  
As someone who does not own a car and is forced to ride his bicycle into work; let me tell you that I absolutely hate cyclists. Finding out Lance Armstrong and all the other lying bastards were lying bastards sets right my world view.

What I find most pathetic about this is how he's all, 'I NEVER FAILED A TEST! I'M LEGIT!'

And believe believe it.
 
2012-10-22 01:08:50 PM  
This will be fun. In 100 years it will look as though the Tour was not raced for more than a decade. "Well, kids, there were no winners. They were all losers."

Fark this revisionist crap. They should have closed the book on each Tour within 12 months of its completion. They were all dopers. We've known this for some time. So one doper beat the other dopers. Sounds like a legit win to me.
 
2012-10-22 01:10:15 PM  
still no cure for cancer.
 
2012-10-22 01:10:42 PM  

mikaloyd: expobill: mikaloyd: Never trust a bicyclist

hey!

Are you trustworthy?


I'm the most trustworthy person you'll ever meet dingleberry, and no, I'm not one of these cyclists that rides in the middle of a lane disrupting traffic. I'll ride up on sidewalks or whatever to avoid cars.
 
2012-10-22 01:10:56 PM  

DeathCipris: Alright, is it just me or is ALL of this evidence against him hearsay? By people that didn't win and former butthurt teammates no less...
The evidence was so scant in fact, that federal prosecutors DROPPED the case against him due to lack of evidence.


Hearsay is when someone tells you they did something, or even worse, someone else tells you that he did something. What we have here is direct eye witness testimony, from people that saw Lance take drugs or were ordered to take drugs by Lance and Johann Bruyneel. The federal case was dropped because doping is not a federal crime in the US. The worst they were going to get him on was defrauding the Postal Service or something like that. Small potatoes for the Justice Department that still hasn't prosecuted anyone for the mortgage backed securities and derivatives fraud that brought the world economy down.
 
2012-10-22 01:12:39 PM  

mikaloyd: expobill: mikaloyd: Never trust a bicyclist

hey!

Are you trustworthy?


too trustworthy
/trust me!
 
2012-10-22 01:12:52 PM  

jchic: Okay, so this means that they are 100% sure that everyone else is clean and Lance was the only cheater right? Right?

Yea, that's what I thought.


The whole case centered around the fact that something like two dozen of his teammates from over the years came forward to finger him, either being caught or admitting to their own doping in the process.

So no. They're 100% sure that lots of people are dirty.
 
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