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(CBC)   Armstrong stripped of Tour de France titles, Moon Landing   (cbc.ca ) divider line
    More: News, Tour de France, UCI, Court of Arbitration for Sport, Johan Bruyneel, Contador, Andy Schleck, Floyd Landis, Pat McQuaid  
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7323 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Oct 2012 at 8:44 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-22 11:10:59 AM  
I still do not forgive the UCI for banning Alejandro Valverde, but today was great for the sport of cycling!
 
2012-10-22 11:11:56 AM  

expobill: Im thinking of my club since I been following the sport since the 70's and a huge banesto-movistar supporter were we won a total of 12 GT and numerous races CLEAN!


Oh, OK. That's fair enough.

I was limiting myself to post-Indurain (i.e. before USPS, Festina, EPO etc took the doping to the industrial level). Up to and including Indurain, whatever doping was going on in the peloton was relatively small scale (think Tom Simpson, rather than Marco Pantani).
 
2012-10-22 11:13:01 AM  

rumpelstiltskin: Sybarite: Does anyone really think the guys who finished second, third, and fourth in all those races weren't doping as well?

Most of those guys have already been caught. One of the problems with stripping him of his titles is, who do you give them to?

 

Well, ladies and gentlemen, I don't think any of our Tour de France contestants have succeeded in passing the doping test, so I say we award the first prize to the girl with the biggest tits. 

/Proust
 
2012-10-22 11:13:08 AM  

destrip: How can they accuse him of cheating if he never failed a doping test?


Because that's what he was cheating on. Testimony of his teammates.
 
2012-10-22 11:14:15 AM  
So THIS is how France gets back at us for all that "freedom fries" nonsense.
 
2012-10-22 11:14:43 AM  
Looks like it is going to take a little bit longer for the naive and gullible Lance apologists to finally understand that their fake hero is a pathological liar, a bully, and a piece of shiat who tried to destroy anyone who got in the way of his carefully constructed one-ball liestrong universe.
 
2012-10-22 11:14:48 AM  

waterrockets: Headso: hopefully this will reduce the number of douchebag cyclists using roads for exercise equipment and inconveniencing everyone else as they do it.

Nope. I don't know anybody in my local racing community who does it because of Lance or anyone else.

So roads are single use? Mostly to take your 6000 lbs vehicle to go buy 17 lbs worth of groceries?


So cyclists are delusional as well.

You're hobby is fundamentally disruptive to your community. Which is fine, so long as you're aware of it and adjust your behavior appropriately. Commandeering shoulderless, windy roads for 4 - 6 hours a week isn't appropriate. Especially in the region I live in, because trail riding is abundant as all get out.

If you believe that Lance Armstrong didn't increase the popularity of street cycling in America... you're completely insane.
 
2012-10-22 11:15:23 AM  

EyeballKid: Skarekrough: However no one gave a crap about cycling before him and no one will likely give a crap about the sport after him.

[startwithtypewriters.com image 298x449]
3 time Tour de France winner and former Taco Bell pitchman Greg Lemond may beg to differ. Just because you yourself don't remember something doesn't mean it didn't hapen.


Which has really little do with that guy's comment. Cycling is a niche sport and the only reason it got any sort of public attention outside of it's narrow fan base is because of Lance Armstrong. Without a more or less iconic champion, cycling will fade back into obscurity.

You're not wrong, either.
 
2012-10-22 11:16:26 AM  
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2012-10-22 11:18:28 AM  

expobill: Carth: Oh no he used steroids in a sport where everyone used steroids! So officially no one won all those years since?

Óscar Pereiro of Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears won the TDF 2006


And he has already had one doping allegation which he explained away as asthma medication. I bet if we spend a few million dollars investigating him we could turn up something else.
 
2012-10-22 11:18:48 AM  

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: And he still won 7 in a row, He was still the best.

Even if he was clean he would never be the best because he only competed and trained for the TDF.
a true champion cyclist can win the Giro, Vuelta or TDF that year.
Lance never raced in those tours one year.
but Pat McQuaid told us cycling fans to forget that person.
so I will- he never existed!
Happy riding everyone, and visit my Movistar team cycling blog (which needs updating) to stay in touch!
 
2012-10-22 11:21:41 AM  

Carth: expobill: Carth: Oh no he used steroids in a sport where everyone used steroids! So officially no one won all those years since?

Óscar Pereiro of Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears won the TDF 2006

And he has already had one doping allegation which he explained away as asthma medication. I bet if we spend a few million dollars investigating him we could turn up something else.


wrong rider, that was Indurain who was clear because due to asthma.
And Miguel suffered from allergies and never took anything for them, which explains his dismal Vuelta results.
 
2012-10-22 11:24:32 AM  
Given how physically fit he was/is, like Lewis Black said, the question isn't was he doping, the question is why aren't we all doping.
 
2012-10-22 11:25:43 AM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: E

Which has really little do with that guy's comment. Cycling is a niche sport and the only reason it got any sort of public attention outside of it's narrow fan base is because of Lance Armstrong. Without a more or less iconic champion, cycling will fade back into obscurity.


sez who?
i know the sport will and has succeed with record amounts of spectators this year, even with the winter conditions Spain that cancelled some routes last March.
 
2012-10-22 11:29:40 AM  

expobill: Carth: expobill: Carth: Oh no he used steroids in a sport where everyone used steroids! So officially no one won all those years since?

Óscar Pereiro of Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears won the TDF 2006

And he has already had one doping allegation which he explained away as asthma medication. I bet if we spend a few million dollars investigating him we could turn up something else.

wrong rider, that was Indurain who was clear because due to asthma.
And Miguel suffered from allergies and never took anything for them, which explains his dismal Vuelta results.


Sorry this was the first thing that came up when I added his name to dopingLink?
 
2012-10-22 11:30:03 AM  
Wow, if this is what happens when you're merely ACCUSED of doping, what do they do to you when they find that you're actually doping?

If you come in second place in the race, I guess your best strategy is to accuse the winner of taking drugs. No need to actually win anymore...
 
2012-10-22 11:30:36 AM  

Mose: BeesNuts: Mose: And the goal of anti-doping rules isn't only to create a level playing ground.

Are there others? What are they?

For the safety and health of the participants and the influence their rules have on the rest of the sport. And the fact that the way some of these products are used is illegal in a lot of the participating countries and the competitors' home countries as well.


In the NFL it's an expectation that you will break bones, be concussed, tear ligaments... In boxing, you will develop brain damage. In Hockey you will lose teeth. In power lifting you will dislocate something or other. It is for these risks and for the value of the overall organization that they are so heavily compensated (in most professional sports anyway).

Some of these drugs can reduce the risk of injury. Some can increase the risk of heart disease. Keeping it below board certainly doesn't help these athletes make informed decisions. By creating a blanket prohibition on all PEDs, they have conceived an environment in which the legality of the drugs plays only a small role in an athletes decision to use them. Now, the only drugs they are willing or able to take are the ones that are most easily passed through the system, masked by additional (and potentially *more* dangerous) drugs, or so new that no test exists to detect it yet. Wouldn't it be nice if these athletes were sticking to the safest available performance enhancers? And those who didn't wish to subject their bodies to punishment would simply (as is the case already) choose to not participate?
 
2012-10-22 11:30:51 AM  

Zizzowop: Given how physically fit he was/is, like Lewis Black said, the question isn't was he doping, the question is why aren't we all doping.


why should we? all riders do have a conscious , well the ones i support!
 
2012-10-22 11:31:08 AM  

drewsclues: If you you're not cheating, you're not trying. Period.


what a sad commentary on, well, you.
 
2012-10-22 11:34:17 AM  

Zizzowop: Given how physically fit he was/is, like Lewis Black said, the question isn't was he doping, the question is why aren't we all doping.


With EPO - good luck. Some supremely fit cyclists have died in their sleep while trying to pump the old catchup blood. I know what you are saying, 'just take blood thinners!'. Well, there's the guy who bled out from a miinor injury from taking to many blood thinners to counter the EPO.

At any rate, yeah, EPO can increase you athletic performance if you train properly... but it's dangerous shiat. I for one, do not like the idea of sleeping with a heart monitor to wake me up if it slows down too much so I can hop on an exercise bike to get it going again.

In the words of one guy...

"During the day we live to ride, and at night, we ride to stay alive"

Sounds like great fun, no?
 
2012-10-22 11:34:58 AM  
So, I'm wondering when someone will finally go after Barry Bonds-I have that dude's rookie baseball card, and it's obvious looking at then and like 5 years later that he changed quite a bit.
 
2012-10-22 11:36:12 AM  

Carth:

Sorry this was the first thing that came up when I added his name to dopingLink?


No problem, this is my favorite sport so i kinda know these things more that myself.
I also blogged a team from Spain.

The sport is exciting, heartbreaking and sad, we lost a great friendly rider Xavier Tondo last year to an accident involving a garage door, and a very funny Wouters to a wall. Just watching a handful of riders race up a incline to the finish line and have your facebook friend win, is very incredible!
 
kab
2012-10-22 11:36:22 AM  

expobill: Carth: expobill: Carth: Oh no he used steroids in a sport where everyone used steroids! So officially no one won all those years since?

Óscar Pereiro of Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears won the TDF 2006

And he has already had one doping allegation which he explained away as asthma medication. I bet if we spend a few million dollars investigating him we could turn up something else.

wrong rider, that was Indurain who was clear because due to asthma.
And Miguel suffered from allergies and never took anything for them, which explains his dismal Vuelta results.


Actually both Oscar and Miguel tested positive for salbutamol (in '06 and '94, respectively)
 
2012-10-22 11:37:38 AM  

godxam: drewsclues: If you you're not cheating, you're not trying. Period.

what a sad commentary on, well, you.


If there's something you love to do and you want to be the best at it you do whatever it takes to get what you want. This does not mean always cheating to get ahead. There are plenty of places where playing by the rules can get you to the top. In most sports, cheating is almost a requirement to win. If you don't like it, stop paying to see them play.
 
2012-10-22 11:37:39 AM  
Pretty poor understanding of hearsay and circumstantial evidence in here.

Circumstantial evidence is admissible and usually the bulk of the evidence used in courts. Probably 95% of cases are entirely circumstantial. The comments in here are a result of the CSI Effect, where people who watch too much TV, and haven't set a foot in a criminal courtroom think that no one is convicted unless there's DNA or other hard direct slam-dunk type evidence proving guilt.

Plenty, if not the majority of people on death row where the only evidence against them was circumstantial.

Hearsay involves one person saying that another person said something. All of the riders who testify that they witnessed Lance dope would not be giving hearsay evidence. Hearsay would only be where someone testifies that Lance admitted that he doped to them privately.

/the more you know 
//You haven't won the race if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors.
 
kab
2012-10-22 11:38:12 AM  

BeesNuts: You're hobby is fundamentally disruptive to your community.


Your assessment of what is and is not legal road use is off base, unsurprisingly.

You'll get over it.
 
2012-10-22 11:39:03 AM  

expobill: why should we? all riders do have a conscious , well the ones i support!


My question to all the 'so what?' brigade is this: If every rider in all the big races was clean, wouldn't someone still finish first? It's like people have become brainwashed and they no longer think it's possible to ride the grand tours without drugs.

Of course it's possible and many have done it. The problem is it doesn't fit the american corporate narrative. To sell product you need a dominant superstar to build around. Not a different guy with a funny name winning all the different various races.
 
2012-10-22 11:39:22 AM  

kingflower: Looks like it is going to take a little bit longer for the naive and gullible Lance apologists to finally understand that their fake hero is a pathological liar, a bully, and a piece of shiat who tried to destroy anyone who got in the way of his carefully constructed one-ball liestrong universe.


Did you fall off your bike in the race, honey?
 
2012-10-22 11:41:18 AM  

drewsclues: And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.

And yours describes the Democrat platform; whining rather than doing.


I'd rather have a Democratic party that whines about lying and cheating instead of the GOP which embraces those values wholeheartedly.
 
2012-10-22 11:41:25 AM  

JohnBigBootay: Zizzowop: Given how physically fit he was/is, like Lewis Black said, the question isn't was he doping, the question is why aren't we all doping.

With EPO - good luck. Some supremely fit cyclists have died in their sleep while trying to pump the old catchup blood. I know what you are saying, 'just take blood thinners!'. Well, there's the guy who bled out from a miinor injury from taking to many blood thinners to counter the EPO.

At any rate, yeah, EPO can increase you athletic performance if you train properly... but it's dangerous shiat. I for one, do not like the idea of sleeping with a heart monitor to wake me up if it slows down too much so I can hop on an exercise bike to get it going again.

In the words of one guy...

"During the day we live to ride, and at night, we ride to stay alive"

Sounds like great fun, no?


I was just quoting Lewis Black, the only drugs I take are Prilosec. I ride a bike roughly 5 or 6 miles every day, although I may need to alter that with the change in weather, luckily I live in CA though.
 
2012-10-22 11:43:42 AM  

JohnBigBootay: expobill: why should we? all riders do have a conscious , well the ones i support!

My question to all the 'so what?' brigade is this: If every rider in all the big races was clean, wouldn't someone still finish first? It's like people have become brainwashed and they no longer think it's possible to ride the grand tours without drugs.

Of course it's possible and many have done it. The problem is it doesn't fit the american corporate narrative. To sell product you need a dominant superstar to build around. Not a different guy with a funny name winning all the different various races.


Ding Ding Ding

/We have a winner here
 
2012-10-22 11:43:50 AM  
I'll just leave this here.

Link 

NSFW language.
 
2012-10-22 11:47:35 AM  
Actually both Oscar and Miguel tested positive for salbutamol (in '06 and '94, respectively)


Salbutamol is commonly used to treat asthma symptoms, and is allowed to be used in cycle racing if the cyclist can provide a medical prescription for the substance. which both did before the tour.
 
2012-10-22 11:49:08 AM  
Does this mean I can now drive in the bike lane? No?

Then, fark it.
 
2012-10-22 11:53:43 AM  

lohphat: drewsclues: And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.

And yours describes the Democrat platform; whining rather than doing.

I'd rather have a Democratic party that whines about lying and cheating instead of the GOP which embraces those values wholeheartedly.


Then Democrats will always find a way to lose. Just like they've always done.

If you're talking about the future of our country. fark morality. Place yourself in a position to do what you think is best. That's the Republican platform. Democrats could be served well by embracing some of it.
 
2012-10-22 11:56:10 AM  

Leonard Washington:
Plenty, if not the majority of people on death row where the only evidence against them was circumstantial.
.


Sounds to me like that's a problem rather than a good thing.

There's still no actual evidence Lance cheated, and it took over a decade for a body with a grudge against him to round up a bunch of other jealous known liars and cheaters, and then ask them to give conflicting "evidence" against him. Anybody who willingly believes this stuff should go back to elementary school and pick up a critical thinking book.
 
2012-10-22 11:56:25 AM  

drewsclues: Tyrone Slothrop: drewsclues: lohphat: drewsclues: earthwirm: In before the Lance haters.... Oh. Too late. Everyone hates a winner.

There's a a lot of smug whining in this thread. I glad you all attribute such high morals to riding a goddam bicycle. Get over it. Winners take every advantage and bend every rule. If you you're not cheating, you're not trying. Period.

You sound Conservative.

Liberal as they come. I just don't think sports matter enough in the world to get all pissed when someone bends to rules to their advantage. Don't want to get pissed when people make money off cheating at sports? Stop paying billions to the people that play the games. Simple as that.

And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.

And yours describes the Democrat platform; whining rather than doing.


It's hilarious that you think the position, "people shouldn't cheat" is whining. Sorry about the shiatty parents and role models you had.
 
2012-10-22 11:57:04 AM  
Sure he was doping. And he beat a bunch of other guys that were doping. Just like Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire. They're grownups. What they inject into their bodies is their business, not mine. And if they do it for my entertainment, so much the better. These people are million dollar guinnea pigs. Using chemicals to make yourself better isn't unethical. The question is how to do it safely, and that's where the pro athletes come in. Pay them lots of money to test this stuff out so that when I'm 50, I can be as strong as I was when I was 24, and so I can do it safely. Let 'em dope, but give us full disclosure so we can learn something.
 
2012-10-22 11:58:58 AM  

Sargun: Leonard Washington:
Plenty, if not the majority of people on death row where the only evidence against them was circumstantial.
.

Sounds to me like that's a problem rather than a good thing.

There's still no actual evidence Lance cheated, and it took over a decade for a body with a grudge against him to round up a bunch of other jealous known liars and cheaters, and then ask them to give conflicting "evidence" against him. Anybody who willingly believes this stuff should go back to elementary school and pick up a critical thinking book.


meh...sports Luddites win in the rules committees, not on the field.
 
2012-10-22 11:58:59 AM  

drewsclues: lohphat: drewsclues: And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.

And yours describes the Democrat platform; whining rather than doing.

I'd rather have a Democratic party that whines about lying and cheating instead of the GOP which embraces those values wholeheartedly.

Then Democrats will always find a way to lose. Just like they've always done.

If you're talking about the future of our country. fark morality. Place yourself in a position to do what you think is best. That's the Republican platform. Democrats could be served well by embracing some of it.


Clearly that's why you and your ilk are part of the problem.

"Christian family values for everyone -- except us."

Fark that hypocritical noise.
 
2012-10-22 11:59:22 AM  

browntimmy: drewsclues: Tyrone Slothrop: drewsclues: lohphat: drewsclues: earthwirm: In before the Lance haters.... Oh. Too late. Everyone hates a winner.

There's a a lot of smug whining in this thread. I glad you all attribute such high morals to riding a goddam bicycle. Get over it. Winners take every advantage and bend every rule. If you you're not cheating, you're not trying. Period.

You sound Conservative.

Liberal as they come. I just don't think sports matter enough in the world to get all pissed when someone bends to rules to their advantage. Don't want to get pissed when people make money off cheating at sports? Stop paying billions to the people that play the games. Simple as that.

And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.

And yours describes the Democrat platform; whining rather than doing.

It's hilarious that you think the position, "people shouldn't cheat" is whining. Sorry about the shiatty parents and role models you had.


Unless they are cheating the immigration system, welfare, elections, ect... you know... the shiat that actually matters then its ok to right?
 
2012-10-22 12:01:08 PM  
Johny Schleck advises sons to "quit cycling"
That is a shame, I hope they do not because they are fun riders to watch!
 
2012-10-22 12:02:02 PM  

EyeballKid: mbillodeaux: If you don't use synthetic oil in your vehicle, you're doing it wrong.

Just sayin...as the times change, so do the ways in which we manipulate efficiency. Always has been, always will be, always should be.

Yes, I'm conservative.

Hell, I'd say you're a speechwriter for conservatives, given the way you re-phrased "cheating" to "manipulating efficiency." What did you call torture? Are you familiar with Orwell's "Politics and the English Language" essay?

Hold up, are you Frank Luntz?


LOL...no. Not familiar with it; but, will read it. Thank you for the reference! A link would be much more efficient for my current mood.

Yes. I like semantics. ;-)
 
2012-10-22 12:02:28 PM  

lohphat: Don't you tools still feel smug wearing those sheep tags...er, Livestrong[tm] bracelets? You know, for "cancer awareness" that gave nothing to research but mostly into his pocket?


They make a good c*ck ring.  So, yah, they feel snug.
 
2012-10-22 12:02:29 PM  

expobill: Johny Schleck advises sons to "quit cycling"

link from cycling world
 
2012-10-22 12:02:35 PM  

Sargun: There's still no actual evidence Lance cheated


Circumstantial evidence is evidence. I don't know what you mean by "actual" evidence, but no courts in the world make that distinction.
 
2012-10-22 12:03:07 PM  

lohphat: drewsclues: And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.

And yours describes the Democrat platform; whining rather than doing.

I'd rather have a Democratic party that whines about lying and cheating instead of the GOP which embraces those values wholeheartedly.


HAHAHHAHAHhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

You don't think the Dems are about lying and cheating too? Patheticly funny. They just do it while hugging you.

/ Amused by people who criticize Romney for lying in the debates. You tune into a lying contest where two liars lie to each other and the public, and then take exception when one does it better than the other.
 
2012-10-22 12:04:13 PM  

Sargun: There's still no actual evidence Lance cheated


There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of grumpy prisoners living behind bars today who like how you think. It's a bike race dude - you go try to find 26 people and get them to all tell the same lie to an investigator. You can't do it. You sound like one of the few left - the true believers who will continue to deny, even after he admits it. Which will likely come this week.
 
2012-10-22 12:04:24 PM  

expobill: wrong rider, that was Indurain who was clear because due to asthma.
And Miguel suffered from allergies and never took anything for them, which explains his dismal Vuelta results.


Right. EPO use on the pro circuit began in the late '80s, on a very small scale. Lemond's miracle recovery from dud in the Giro to winner of the TdF in 1989? Iron shots, totally. Maybe Lemond himself didn't know what he was getting as he seems convinced he was always clean. But I'd guess he was getting EPO.

All of the truly great TdF riders that preceded Indurain reached the podium within their first or second try. Indurain, like Armstrong made several attempts at the TdF with mediocre results. Then both of them consulted with Italian EPO doping experts (Indurain with Francesco Conconi, Armstrong with Conconi's disciple Ferrari) and started winning the TdF several years in a row.

Indurain outsmarted Lance by taking his palmares, retiring and living a nice quiet life. Armstrong did anything but and it has back fired on in enormously.
 
2012-10-22 12:04:53 PM  

Joe Blowme: Unless they are cheating the immigration system, welfare, elections, ect... you know... the shiat that actually matters then its ok to right?


You're including the employers that willingly and knowingly hire undocumented workers to protect their profits right? Do you think those people are working in crappy slave conditions because they want to?

Want to solve the immigration problem? Jail a few agribusiness and construction CEOs and seize their assets for hiring undocumented workers. They're creating the employment market drawing them here.
 
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