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(CBC)   Armstrong stripped of Tour de France titles, Moon Landing   (cbc.ca) divider line 483
    More: News, Tour de France, UCI, Court of Arbitration for Sport, Johan Bruyneel, Contador, Andy Schleck, Floyd Landis, Pat McQuaid  
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7321 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Oct 2012 at 8:44 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-22 10:23:06 AM  

Sybarite: Does anyone really think the guys who finished second, third, and fourth in all those races weren't doping as well?


"USADA also thinks the Tour titles should not be given to other riders who finished on the podium, such was the level of doping during Armstrong's era.

The agency said 20 of the 21 riders on the podium in the Tour from 1999 through 2005 have been "directly tied to likely doping through admissions, sanctions, public investigations" or other means. It added that of the 45 riders on the podium between 1996 and 2010, 36 were by cyclists "similarly tainted by doping.""
 
2012-10-22 10:23:43 AM  

mbillodeaux: If you don't use synthetic oil in your vehicle, you're doing it wrong.

Just sayin...as the times change, so do the ways in which we manipulate efficiency. Always has been, always will be, always should be.

Yes, I'm conservative.


Hell, I'd say you're a speechwriter for conservatives, given the way you re-phrased "cheating" to "manipulating efficiency." What did you call torture? Are you familiar with Orwell's "Politics and the English Language" essay?

Hold up, are you Frank Luntz?
 
2012-10-22 10:24:29 AM  

FinFangFark: Meh, he doped in a sport where EVERYONE dopes. He just doped better than everyone else..and the French were pissed that a dirty American won 7 straight.


This. It must have driven them nuts that a cancer survivor beat them nonstop, doping or no.
 
2012-10-22 10:24:56 AM  

Girion47: Yeah but who cares what enhanced people can do? I think the anti-doping measures are because we want to see what a human can do without outside help, it's inspiring. What isn't is knowing I can take a 20 to mexico and get a shortcut to athletic prowess.


They aren't muscle pills, you know. Like... you still need to train. As much if not more than your non-doping counterparts. What doping lets you do is *train* more strenuously and more often. And maintain a good diet.

I don't care about "outside help" any more than I care about all the other advantages afforded to professional athletes when it comes to training. I mean, back in the day, professional athletes were paid so poorly that many had additional jobs. This cut down on training time. Do we want to limit the amount of time people can spend in the gym to make sure that these records are set by Joe Everyman?
 
2012-10-22 10:25:12 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: He's such a good guy with such a compelling story that it's such a shame he has to go out this way. He took a sport few people care about and really exploded the amount of attention that it got, and now, to find out he'd been cheating, it's such a letdown.


It's called karma.

He's been a dick for years, even to his daughter.
 
2012-10-22 10:25:40 AM  

Mose: And the goal of anti-doping rules isn't only to create a level playing ground.


Are there others? What are they?
 
2012-10-22 10:26:56 AM  
dumb headline
 
2012-10-22 10:27:02 AM  

BeesNuts: Do we want to limit the amount of time people can spend in the gym to make sure that these records are set by Joe Everyman?


Yes, also i propose no cyclist is allowed to use any bike costing over $300 to make the sport more accessible.
 
2012-10-22 10:27:31 AM  
Uhh, he still won. If everyone is doping, it's a fair race. Sports are entertainment. Why treat it any different from other aspects of entertainment? Actors/actresses modify their bodies, wear shiat tons of make-up and use cute camera tricks to present a far better depiction of themselves. Magazines photoshop the shiat out of people. The news lies. 9/11 was an insider job, WRESTLING IS REAL AND THE RENT IS TOO GOD DAMN HIGH
 
2012-10-22 10:28:07 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: destrip: How can they accuse him of cheating if he never failed a doping test?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

/or something


Nearly failing but not quite failing every drug test he's ever taken suggests Type II error.
 
2012-10-22 10:28:43 AM  
drug tests were passed, but that doesn't matter.
what matters is that the sport is now dead
fark 'em
he shoulda been the superpresident of france!!!
 
2012-10-22 10:29:03 AM  

max_pooper: Eyewitness testimony of "another teammate said he overheard the team doctor say Lance took HGH" is hearsay. A teammate that says, "I was on his team and I was given steroids so that means that Lance was too" is circumstantial evidence.


Here's 70 seconds of an interview with Tyler Hamilton. Selected quotes from the first 40 seconds:

"We had a transfusion together, we did that multiple times"
"We took EPO together, not a big deal as we all [USPS] did it"
"I knew he took cortisone, but I never saw him do it".
"I saw him do activogene, you can get that injected the morning of a race and I saw him do that"
"I saw him take testosterone, both in pill form and in liquid form"
 
2012-10-22 10:29:45 AM  

liam76: dr_blasto: Why ban Armstrong for life, but give Floyd Landis and Contador a comparative break?

Didn't they admit it?


Landis and Contador both tested positive; Landis went on to confess all kinds of drug stuff. I'm unaware of Contador "coming clean" (lol) afterwards.

Difference is they both actually popped on tests, so confessions after the fact aren't all that don't mean so much to me.
 
2012-10-22 10:31:20 AM  

drewsclues: earthwirm: In before the Lance haters.... Oh. Too late. Everyone hates a winner.

There's a a lot of smug whining in this thread. I glad you all attribute such high morals to riding a goddam bicycle. Get over it. Winners take every advantage and bend every rule. If you you're not cheating, you're not trying. Period.


couldn't agree more
cache.deadspin.com
 
2012-10-22 10:31:40 AM  

gwowen: max_pooper: Eyewitness testimony of "another teammate said he overheard the team doctor say Lance took HGH" is hearsay. A teammate that says, "I was on his team and I was given steroids so that means that Lance was too" is circumstantial evidence.

Here's 70 seconds of an interview with Tyler Hamilton. Selected quotes from the first 40 seconds:

"We had a transfusion together, we did that multiple times"
"We took EPO together, not a big deal as we all [USPS] did it"
"I knew he took cortisone, but I never saw him do it".
"I saw him do activogene, you can get that injected the morning of a race and I saw him do that"
"I saw him take testosterone, both in pill form and in liquid form"


I can forgive the testosterone... dude was missing a nut after all.
 
2012-10-22 10:32:14 AM  

Headso: hopefully this will reduce the number of douchebag cyclists using roads for exercise equipment and inconveniencing everyone else as they do it.


Nope. I don't know anybody in my local racing community who does it because of Lance or anyone else.

So roads are single use? Mostly to take your 6000 lbs vehicle to go buy 17 lbs worth of groceries?
 
2012-10-22 10:34:25 AM  

expobill: Uchiha_Cycliste: Sigh, I believed until the last moment.
I also think no one else was clean, let him keep his Jerseys

sorry
but there were alot of clean GT winners in these decades.


The last decade hasn't looked so hot =/
 
2012-10-22 10:35:06 AM  
Marion Jones never failed a drug test either and yet she was stripped and sent to prison.
 
2012-10-22 10:35:13 AM  

feanorn: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

Bill Russell looks at you askance.


+1 for "askance." Now I have to work "askance" into all of my conversations today.
 
2012-10-22 10:35:14 AM  

expobill: but there were alot of clean GT winners in these decades.


There may have been some, but its hard to think of many. Armstrong, Ullrich, Riis, Heras, Pantani, Contador, Vinokurov, Basso... this is not a list that fills me with

Denis Menchov and Carlos Sastre seem likely to be the cleanest, and Simoni tested +ve for cocaine, and Simoni road for Discovery Channel
 
2012-10-22 10:36:20 AM  

BeesNuts: Mose: And the goal of anti-doping rules isn't only to create a level playing ground.

Are there others? What are they?


For the safety and health of the participants and the influence their rules have on the rest of the sport. And the fact that the way some of these products are used is illegal in a lot of the participating countries and the competitors' home countries as well.
 
2012-10-22 10:37:36 AM  

Mose: Uchiha_Cycliste: Sigh, I believed until the last moment.
I also think no one else was clean, let him keep his Jerseys

As I know you're a cyclist, I'm surprised you're not cynical and jaded.

/are up happy? there's no happiness in bike racing!


I'm slightly less happy than I was. On the other hand, he *WAS* still hands down the fastest. I'll always have those years.

I'm gonna get a beating for this...
Like a Boss.
 
2012-10-22 10:39:13 AM  
When Alberto Contador was stripped of his 2010 Tour victory for a doping violation, organizers awarded the title to Andy Schleck. In 2006, Oscar Pereiro was awarded the victory after the doping disqualification of American rider Floyd Landis.

So awards were stripped in 2006 and 2010. Is there any integrity in the sport?
 
2012-10-22 10:39:31 AM  

Girion47: kriegfusion: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

[i129.photobucket.com image 300x300]

Unless of course the event is exactly the same or very close to the same thing over and over again.

/thinks there's too many olympic swimming events.
//Doesn't consider Phelps having more than 2 or 3 gold medals at most.

his "dope" has a downer effect, not performance enhancing.


Actually regular smokers have increased VO2max and THC is a bronchodialator, as ass-backwards as it may seem
 
2012-10-22 10:40:58 AM  

maddermaxx: Clean house for the next generation, and maybe you'll have a clean sport in the future, even if drug testing continues to lag behind new drug/masking developments.


Drug testing will always lag behind PED development; it's the nature of the beast. So long as there's money to be made, new PEDs will be developed. Some athletes will use them, some won't.
 
2012-10-22 10:41:33 AM  

Skarekrough: machoprogrammer: In before the Lance apologists

....However no one gave a crap about cycling before him and no one will likely give a crap about the sport after him.


Because, why would I now be interested in a sport whose pantheon is composed of cheaters and liars?
 
2012-10-22 10:42:12 AM  
Stupid-head Armstrong. You made me get up early to watch the mountain stages live. Thanks for ruining my sleep dopey-mcdoper.
 
2012-10-22 10:42:48 AM  
DO YOU EVEN CYCLE?
 
2012-10-22 10:45:01 AM  
This has been a good story. Like a Greek tragedy with the hero rising to great heights and then being smashed to bits on the rocks below. It was getting to be a bit of a boring narrative before all this came out.
 
2012-10-22 10:45:13 AM  

ranold: DO YOU EVEN CYCLE?


lather, rinse, repeat...?
 
2012-10-22 10:46:13 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Mose: Uchiha_Cycliste: Sigh, I believed until the last moment.
I also think no one else was clean, let him keep his Jerseys

As I know you're a cyclist, I'm surprised you're not cynical and jaded.

/are up happy? there's no happiness in bike racing!

I'm slightly less happy than I was. On the other hand, he *WAS* still hands down the fastest. I'll always have those years.

I'm gonna get a beating for this...
Like a Boss.


I still hold on to the nostalgia too. Watching that first climb to Sestriere in '99 did a lot to inspire my own cycling.
 
2012-10-22 10:46:15 AM  

destrip: How can they accuse him of cheating if he never failed a doping test?


"Hitler never killed anybody" logic.

Armstrong's stance took ball, I'll give him that.
 
2012-10-22 10:46:27 AM  

ranold: DO YOU EVEN CYCLE?


Cycle on and off PEDs to avoid popping on a test?
 
2012-10-22 10:47:36 AM  

damat01: Marion Jones never failed a drug test either and yet she was stripped and sent to prison.


Jones went to prison for perjury[1]. Which, interestingly enough, is exactly what Armstrong stopped short of by choosing to quit fighting when he did. To fight on, he'd have to repeat his lie to a judge, and he knows that that escalates things from "public shame" to "jail time".

1] and cheque fraud
 
2012-10-22 10:47:39 AM  

Valiente: destrip: How can they accuse him of cheating if he never failed a doping test?

"Hitler never killed anybody" logic.

Armstrong's stance took ball, I'll give him that.


*slow clap*
 
2012-10-22 10:51:29 AM  

felching pen: Skarekrough: machoprogrammer: In before the Lance apologists

....However no one gave a crap about cycling before him and no one will likely give a crap about the sport after him.

Because, why would I now be interested in a sport whose pantheon is composed of cheaters and liars?


....that the public found out about because the governing body did everything but set themselves on fire and run through every major city to announce it.
 
2012-10-22 10:53:04 AM  

damat01: Marion Jones never failed a drug test either and yet she was stripped and sent to prison.


Giggity
 
2012-10-22 10:54:03 AM  

tomWright: damat01: Marion Jones never failed a drug test either and yet she was stripped and sent to prison.

Giggity


Oh, well played Mr Wright, well played indeed.
 
2012-10-22 10:54:44 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I'm slightly less happy than I was. On the other hand, he *WAS* still hands down the fastest.


That likely wouldn't be true either if the other elite teams/cyclists had an entire team of dopers with the armstrong-uci inside connection/advanced undetectable doping techniques. The rest of the world wasn't in on the microdosing train, have advanced warning for tests, or were saddled with at least a few clean riders or riders who couldn't dose daily like armstrong's team. They were just winging it - of course they couldn't keep up.
 
2012-10-22 10:56:32 AM  
UCI president Pat McQuaid announced that the federation accepted the USADA's report on Armstrong and would not appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

I knew Lance didn't have the balls to appeal.
 
ifq
2012-10-22 10:56:36 AM  
not that strong finally...
 
2012-10-22 10:57:02 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: drewsclues: lohphat: drewsclues: earthwirm: In before the Lance haters.... Oh. Too late. Everyone hates a winner.

There's a a lot of smug whining in this thread. I glad you all attribute such high morals to riding a goddam bicycle. Get over it. Winners take every advantage and bend every rule. If you you're not cheating, you're not trying. Period.

You sound Conservative.

Liberal as they come. I just don't think sports matter enough in the world to get all pissed when someone bends to rules to their advantage. Don't want to get pissed when people make money off cheating at sports? Stop paying billions to the people that play the games. Simple as that.

And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.


And yours describes the Democrat platform; whining rather than doing.
 
2012-10-22 11:00:47 AM  
Are the people asking for their money back from Livestrong trying to one-up Lance as the the biggest scumbags in the world. They are asking for their money back... from a cancer charity.

Besides whose stronger than somebody all tuned up on PEDs?
 
2012-10-22 11:00:50 AM  
He didn't cheat, he changed the conditions of the race. He deserves an accommodation for original thinking.

edgeofthewest.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-22 11:04:44 AM  

gwowen: expobill: but there were alot of clean GT winners in these decades.

There may have been some, but its hard to think of many. Armstrong, Ullrich, Riis, Heras, Pantani, Contador, Vinokurov, Basso... this is not a list that fills me with

Denis Menchov and Carlos Sastre seem likely to be the cleanest, and Simoni tested +ve for cocaine, and Simoni road for Discovery Channel


Im thinking of my club since I been following the sport since the 70's and a huge banesto-movistar supporter were we won a total of 12 GT and numerous races CLEAN!
 
2012-10-22 11:06:58 AM  

lohphat: Don't you tools still feel smug wearing those sheep tags...er, Livestrong[tm] bracelets? You know, for "cancer awareness" that gave nothing to research but mostly into his pocket?

P. T. Barnum wins again.


[Citation Needed]
 
2012-10-22 11:07:17 AM  

Carth: Oh no he used steroids in a sport where everyone used steroids! So officially no one won all those years since?


Óscar Pereiro of Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears won the TDF 2006
 
2012-10-22 11:08:06 AM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Are the people asking for their money back from Livestrong trying to one-up Lance as the the biggest scumbags in the world. They are asking for their money back... from a cancer charity.

Besides whose stronger than somebody all tuned up on PEDs?


I never gave them a dime!
/hates cancer tho!
 
2012-10-22 11:08:14 AM  
civil lawsuits from ex-sponsors or even the U.S. government.

Let see, he rode for the US Postal Service. Who's going broke right about now? Oh, the US Postal Service?
 
2012-10-22 11:10:22 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: He's such a good guy with such a compelling story that it's such a shame he has to go out this way. He took a sport few people care about and really exploded the amount of attention that it got, and now, to find out he'd been cheating, it's such a letdown.


Good guy... who left his wife who stood by him through cancer, and the mother of his children, for freaking Cheryl Crow?
Not so much.

lohphat: Don't you tools still feel smug wearing those sheep tags...er, Livestrong[tm] bracelets? You know, for "cancer awareness" that gave nothing to research but mostly into his pocket?

P. T. Barnum wins again.


Just in case no one has already given you a great big STFU you liar: https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6 5 70
 
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