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(CBC)   Armstrong stripped of Tour de France titles, Moon Landing   (cbc.ca) divider line 483
    More: News, Tour de France, UCI, Court of Arbitration for Sport, Johan Bruyneel, Contador, Andy Schleck, Floyd Landis, Pat McQuaid  
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7318 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Oct 2012 at 8:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-22 09:25:48 AM
Meanwhile, most other professional athletes shrug while taking today's dose of performance enhancing drugs.
 
2012-10-22 09:26:06 AM

Joe Peanut: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

Which is why they should investigate Michael Schumacher. He must have been injecting nitrous oxide into his engine.

/derp


I seem to remember stories of Schumacher underfilling his gas tank to get a weight advantage and then rolling through the gravel at the end of his races so his tires would pick up gravel and make up the difference when his car was weighed.

But your starry eyed allegiance to Lance is noted.

/If I dislike Armstrong for anything, it's the influx of spandex laden cyclists who seem to think that coasting around shoulderless country roads is a "sport" if you are wearing spandex with sponsors names all over it.
 
2012-10-22 09:29:23 AM

EyeballKid: Skarekrough: However no one gave a crap about cycling before him and no one will likely give a crap about the sport after him.

[startwithtypewriters.com image 298x449]
3 time Tour de France winner and former Taco Bell pitchman Greg Lemond may beg to differ. Just because you yourself don't remember something doesn't mean it didn't hapen.


Another doper.
 
2012-10-22 09:29:25 AM

Matrix Flavored Wasabi: I don't get the uproar. All elite-level athletes should be allowed to use whatever drugs they want, there's a fine line between legal supplements and banned drugs (caffeine and ADHD medications are banned at the college level, for instance, and half the shiat I take for recreational lifting is legal but on the WADA list).


This.

Anyone who's proper outraged about doping... doesn't understand it very well.
 
2012-10-22 09:29:46 AM

maggoo: markfara: That was always my impression of him, too. In interviews I've seen with him, he's just always seemed like kind of an arrogant dick.

/He dumped Cheryl as soon as she announced she had breast cancer.
//Stay classy, Lance.

Not quite. She wanted to marry and have kids right away, and Lance Armstrong wasn't particularly inclined to that.

You may accuse him of being a douche for not getting married agains his wishes, but breast cancer had nothign to do with it.


we all know correllation = causation.

They happend close together so one caused the other. End. Of. Story.
 
2012-10-22 09:30:05 AM

EyeballKid: Skarekrough: However no one gave a crap about cycling before him and no one will likely give a crap about the sport after him.

[startwithtypewriters.com image 298x449]
3 time Tour de France winner and former Taco Bell pitchman Greg Lemond may beg to differ. Just because you yourself don't remember something doesn't mean it didn't hapen.


No, I remember.

But the general public does, vaguely.

You missed the point though. What has Greg done for the sport of cycling lately and how does it compare to what Lance's influence has been upon it over the past decade or so?

When you're a sport nearly devoid of "rock stars" it's stupid to take one down any earlier than absolutely necessary, especially when his presence has advanced it as much as it has.

Yeah, he cheated, big farking deal. Your membership numbers are up, kids are buying bikes, the amateur circuit is bigger than it has ever been and big-name bike manufacturers have hardcore money to throw at RandD to make then next great bike. The org isn't going to lose ANY integrity by taking its time and being thorough and investigating all aspects of all athletes involved.
 
2012-10-22 09:32:21 AM

Skarekrough: You missed the point though. What has Greg done for the sport of cycling lately and how does it compare to what Lance's influence has been upon it over the past decade or so?

When you're a sport nearly devoid of "rock stars" it's stupid to take one down any earlier than absolutely necessary, especially when his presence has advanced it as much as it has.


Without Greg Lemond, there's no precedent for Blackball Armstrong to become the "rock star" of his sport.

Skarekrough: Yeah, he cheated, big farking deal.



It's disturbing how prevalent this line of thinking is. Are there really this many self-centered, shiatty parents?
 
2012-10-22 09:32:23 AM

max_pooper: Here is a list of all the non-circumstantial and non-hearsay evidence against Armstrong:

end


Do you know how I know that you don't know what those terms mean?

kriegfusion: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

[i129.photobucket.com image 300x300]

Unless of course the event is exactly the same or very close to the same thing over and over again.

/thinks there's too many olympic swimming events.
//Doesn't consider Phelps having more than 2 or 3 gold medals at most.


I wouldn't be shocked if Phelps, or any Olympian, was doping as well. They very likely all dope.
 
2012-10-22 09:32:31 AM
www.periodistadigital.com
 
2012-10-22 09:33:04 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: He's such a good guy with such a compelling story that it's such a shame he has to go out this way. He took a sport few people care about and really exploded the amount of attention that it got, and now, to find out he'd been cheating, it's such a letdown.


He's not "such a good guy". I live 25 miles from where he grew up and he's universally known, on a personal level, to be a giant douchebag narcissist asshole. He's terribly rude and condescending. He just got cancer and it made him a sympathetic figure.

Overall his presence on earth has been positive because of the amount of cancer research his cause has funded. But make no mistake if you knew him personally you would consider him a huge dick.
 
2012-10-22 09:33:50 AM

kriegfusion: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

[i129.photobucket.com image 300x300]

Unless of course the event is exactly the same or very close to the same thing over and over again.

/thinks there's too many olympic swimming events.
//Doesn't consider Phelps having more than 2 or 3 gold medals at most.


Michael Phelps has exactly 0 gold medals.

He has Olympic wins, yes. Not denying that. But if you melted down all of his medals and smelted out just the gold, you might get enough for a pinkie ring.
 
2012-10-22 09:33:56 AM

Joe Peanut: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

Which is why they should investigate Michael Schumacher. He must have been injecting nitrous oxide into his engine.

/derp


7 out of 11 championships in a sport where most of the time there are only 2 or at most 3 competitive teams is not really all that comparable to what Armstrong "achieved".
 
2012-10-22 09:34:32 AM

Sybarite: Does anyone really think the guys who finished second, third, and fourth in all those races weren't doping as well?


Most of those guys have already been caught. One of the problems with stripping him of his titles is, who do you give them to? They're going to have to find someone no one's ever cared enough to scrutinize. And when they scrutinize him, they're going to find he cheated, too.
 
2012-10-22 09:35:49 AM

machoprogrammer: max_pooper: Here is a list of all the non-circumstantial and non-hearsay evidence against Armstrong:

end

Do you know how I know that you don't know what those terms mean?


Why don't you enlighten us? Please provide all the evidence used against Armstrong that is not hearsay or circumstantial.
 
2012-10-22 09:36:51 AM

oldfarthenry: [i1151.photobucket.com image 550x550]
Gig's up, Lance! Strip out of that spacesuit and GTFO!


Why would they put velcro on the inside of the helmet if they're on a sound stage. Just lift the visor and scratch your nose.
 
2012-10-22 09:38:03 AM

kriegfusion: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

[i129.photobucket.com image 300x300]

Unless of course the event is exactly the same or very close to the same thing over and over again.

/thinks there's too many olympic swimming events.
//Doesn't consider Phelps having more than 2 or 3 gold medals at most.


his "dope" has a downer effect, not performance enhancing.
 
2012-10-22 09:38:07 AM
When they say doping, what kind of dope did he use?
 
2012-10-22 09:38:18 AM

rumpelstiltskin: Sybarite: Does anyone really think the guys who finished second, third, and fourth in all those races weren't doping as well?

Most of those guys have already been caught. One of the problems with stripping him of his titles is, who do you give them to? They're going to have to find someone no one's ever cared enough to scrutinize. And when they scrutinize him, they're going to find he cheated, too.


A lot acknowledge that to ride with the pro European peleton in that era, you pretty much had to dope. Some did more successfully than others.
 
2012-10-22 09:38:30 AM
OH what a happy and morning of relief!
I knew Lance Cheatwrong was dirty before he finished a TFD in 1996
then he grew into a big asre, and pissed alot of cyclist off.
what lost my respect for this pile of crap was he only trained for July.
then the sneaking of blood before races and being tipped off when the test were scheduled.
He deserves a life of shame!

escume me, i need update some wiki pages!
Vamos Banesto!
 
2012-10-22 09:38:39 AM

doglover: kriegfusion: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

[i129.photobucket.com image 300x300]

Unless of course the event is exactly the same or very close to the same thing over and over again.

/thinks there's too many olympic swimming events.
//Doesn't consider Phelps having more than 2 or 3 gold medals at most.

Michael Phelps has exactly 0 gold medals.

He has Olympic wins, yes. Not denying that. But if you melted down all of his medals and smelted out just the gold, you might get enough for a pinkie ring.


Really? This is what this thread has devolved into?
 
2012-10-22 09:39:03 AM
Yet Barry Bond's record still stands
 
2012-10-22 09:39:26 AM

maddermaxx: kregh99: destrip: How can they accuse him of cheating if he never failed a doping test?

And we're done.
(not really, but we should be.)

All of the evidence is circumstantial at best. Guilt by association is not evidence. If he used, I'm all for stripping his titles. But come up with better evidence than disgruntled non-winners and "because he was around other users, he must have used" crap.

There's quite a few witnesses who were on his own cycling team who also testified against him, 11 of them apparently. These aren't a few disgruntled losers, they're his team mates, and the number of them testifying against him would make it a pretty unlikely conspiracy.


absolutely.. We all know how quantity of testimony improves its truthyness.

Just look at the inquisition, Salem witch trial, mcmartin pre-school, the billions who testify to the truth of various scriptures. All that testimony that physically impossible things happened means they did occur!
 
2012-10-22 09:39:29 AM

maddermaxx: There's quite a few witnesses who were on his own cycling team who also testified against him, 11 of them apparently. These aren't a few disgruntled losers, they're his team mates, and the number of them testifying against him would make it a pretty unlikely conspiracy.


It totally makes sense that everyone who ever knew him in any way has come forward and apparently lied about him just for the fun of slandering him. And the labs illegally spiked his urine tests after the fact. It's much easier to believe that dozens upon dozens of people, many of whom don't even know him, were forced to break laws in order to slander Armstrong, who clearly came back from cancer after not really having won much before it and got superpowers, magically beating everyone in the world, who WAS doping.

If all your teammates LIED in order to discredit you, you are probably the most consummate asshole hin the history of the world. So he's either a cheater and a regular ol' asshole or he's the biggest asshole ever. Either way, I don't have a problem with besh*tting his career.
 
2012-10-22 09:39:43 AM
Races are won in the court room.
 
2012-10-22 09:40:20 AM

NeoBad: When they say doping, what kind of dope did he use?

"His goal led him to depend on EPO, testosterone and blood transfusions but also, more ruthlessly, to expect and to require that his teammates would likewise use drugs to support his goals if not their own," the agency said in its 202-page report.

 
2012-10-22 09:40:45 AM

kregh99: destrip: How can they accuse him of cheating if he never failed a doping test?

And we're done.
(not really, but we should be.)

All of the evidence is circumstantial at best. Guilt by association is not evidence. If he used, I'm all for stripping his titles. But come up with better evidence than disgruntled non-winners and "because he was around other users, he must have used" crap.


You should invite Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Lance over for tea. Or a book club. You could all have a wonderfully honest conversation.
 
kab
2012-10-22 09:40:57 AM

Joe Peanut: Which is why they should investigate Michael Schumacher. He must have been injecting nitrous oxide into his engine.

/derp



Yes, F1 teams never ever cheat. No sir.
 
2012-10-22 09:41:52 AM

EyeballKid: Skarekrough: You missed the point though. What has Greg done for the sport of cycling lately and how does it compare to what Lance's influence has been upon it over the past decade or so?

When you're a sport nearly devoid of "rock stars" it's stupid to take one down any earlier than absolutely necessary, especially when his presence has advanced it as much as it has.

Without Greg Lemond, there's no precedent for Blackball Armstrong to become the "rock star" of his sport.

Skarekrough: Yeah, he cheated, big farking deal.


It's disturbing how prevalent this line of thinking is. Are there really this many self-centered, shiatty parents?


Society does it. Amazing how much outrage this causes when it means nothing in life yet thoses who are "Cheating" our laws on immigration get an "Aww shucks, its too hard to do it without cheating" and yet you want me to be outraged about some sportts cheating? Or the institutionalized cheating on admissions and such with afirmative action? Please.
 
2012-10-22 09:41:52 AM

EyeballKid: Skarekrough: You missed the point though. What has Greg done for the sport of cycling lately and how does it compare to what Lance's influence has been upon it over the past decade or so?

When you're a sport nearly devoid of "rock stars" it's stupid to take one down any earlier than absolutely necessary, especially when his presence has advanced it as much as it has.

Without Greg Lemond, there's no precedent for Blackball Armstrong to become the "rock star" of his sport.

Skarekrough: Yeah, he cheated, big farking deal.


It's disturbing how prevalent this line of thinking is. Are there really this many self-centered, shiatty parents?


It's a sporting event. It should be as relevant as how much basil you smell in your own farts.
 
2012-10-22 09:42:13 AM

NeoBad: When they say doping, what kind of dope did he use?


Erythropoietin, HGH, testosterone (which they thought made the EPO more effective), cortisone, and blood doping are the big ones I've read about.

Blood doping is the practice of withdrawing your own blood months before a big event and transfusing it back into yourself just before the event.
 
2012-10-22 09:42:15 AM

EyeballKid: Skarekrough: You missed the point though. What has Greg done for the sport of cycling lately and how does it compare to what Lance's influence has been upon it over the past decade or so?

When you're a sport nearly devoid of "rock stars" it's stupid to take one down any earlier than absolutely necessary, especially when his presence has advanced it as much as it has.

Without Greg Lemond, there's no precedent for Blackball Armstrong to become the "rock star" of his sport.

Skarekrough: Yeah, he cheated, big farking deal.


It's disturbing how prevalent this line of thinking is. Are there really this many self-centered, shiatty parents?


Explain.

What did he do to cheat? Should it be considered cheating and why? Given all he accomplished both personally and for his sport and surrounding organizations, can we establish a moral framework in which to judge him or others who "cheat" in this way?
 
2012-10-22 09:42:18 AM
So let me get this straight. He's an apparently healthy individual now that, in the past, dominated a sport after being sick. And people are mad at him becuase he used performance enhancing drugs; otherwise known as vitamins or dope. And the thing dominating the minds of sheeple is "cheating?"

I'm disappointed.
 
2012-10-22 09:43:14 AM

doglover: kriegfusion: Obama4Life: Nobody could win 7 consecutive Titles without a little outside help.

[i129.photobucket.com image 300x300]

Unless of course the event is exactly the same or very close to the same thing over and over again.

/thinks there's too many olympic swimming events.
//Doesn't consider Phelps having more than 2 or 3 gold medals at most.

Michael Phelps has exactly 0 gold medals.

He has Olympic wins, yes. Not denying that. But if you melted down all of his medals and smelted out just the gold, you might get enough for a pinkie ring.


The IOC rules state that each gold medal must contain 6 grams of gold. With 18 golds, that adds up to 108 grams, or 3.81 ounces of gold.

That pinkie ring sounds kind of heavy.
 
2012-10-22 09:43:27 AM

jchic: Okay, so this means that they are 100% sure that everyone else is clean and Lance was the only cheater right? Right?

Yea, that's what I thought.


FTA: "USADA also thinks the Tour titles should not be given to other riders who finished on the podium, such was the level of doping during Armstrong's era."

Wow, you're an idiot.
 
2012-10-22 09:43:53 AM
Oh no he used steroids in a sport where everyone used steroids! So officially no one won all those years since?
 
2012-10-22 09:45:34 AM

tomWright: maddermaxx: kregh99: destrip: How can they accuse him of cheating if he never failed a doping test?

And we're done.
(not really, but we should be.)

All of the evidence is circumstantial at best. Guilt by association is not evidence. If he used, I'm all for stripping his titles. But come up with better evidence than disgruntled non-winners and "because he was around other users, he must have used" crap.

There's quite a few witnesses who were on his own cycling team who also testified against him, 11 of them apparently. These aren't a few disgruntled losers, they're his team mates, and the number of them testifying against him would make it a pretty unlikely conspiracy.

absolutely.. We all know how quantity of testimony improves its truthyness.

Just look at the inquisition, Salem witch trial, mcmartin pre-school, the billions who testify to the truth of various scriptures. All that testimony that physically impossible things happened means they did occur!


Who, precisely, would you believe then?

I mean, these people, many famous cyclists in their own right admitted to doping themselves in order to testify against Lance Armstrong. Seriously, your analogy doesn't work at all because these people aren't just saying lance did something bad, they are admitting, painfully, that they did too, and they will suffer setbacks for that themselves.
 
2012-10-22 09:45:53 AM

kab: Joe Peanut: Which is why they should investigate Michael Schumacher. He must have been injecting nitrous oxide into his engine.

/derp


Yes, F1 teams never ever cheat. No sir.


Yeah, farking DonCHEATY won the Indy 500 this year by running Sato off the road.

asshole.
 
2012-10-22 09:46:35 AM

Carth: Oh no he used steroids in a sport where everyone used steroids! So officially no one won all those years since?


jeez loiuse, not every cyclist doped to win, lance and USPS cheated every race!
which is not hard to do iif one races only n july!
 
2012-10-22 09:46:44 AM
I dont care if he was doping or not .
This is a witch hunt.

//that is all
 
2012-10-22 09:48:23 AM

expobill: Carth: Oh no he used steroids in a sport where everyone used steroids! So officially no one won all those years since?

jeez loiuse, not every cyclist doped to win, lance and USPS cheated every race!
which is not hard to do iif one races only n july!


What place do you need to go back to in Lances Tour de France wins to find someone who was still believed to be clean? Were there any in the top 10 or top 20?
 
2012-10-22 09:48:34 AM

give me doughnuts: That pinkie ring sounds kind of heavy.


I have big hands.
 
2012-10-22 09:48:56 AM
Well, if the government says he cheated, that's good enough for me.

Why yes, I'd love to buy that oceanfront property in Wyoming you're selling; sounds like a heck of a deal!
 
2012-10-22 09:49:52 AM
FTA: "The agency said 20 of the 21 riders on the podium in the Tour from 1999 through 2005 have been "directly tied to likely doping through admissions, sanctions, public investigations" or other means. It added that of the 45 riders on the podium between 1996 and 2010, 36 were by cyclists "similarly tainted by doping." "

Not saying that doping is right, but after reading that, I half don't blame him. Now, the allegations about trafficking coercing people into doping should be dealt accordingly. But it almost seems silly at this point to punish willing participants in doping, when you basically had to if you were to remain competitive.

What matters now is how the UCI handles drug testing from here on out in professional cycling. If they are truly serious, they will clean house...**cue the sound of audience laughter**
 
2012-10-22 09:51:34 AM

Girion47: Yeah, farking DonCHEATY won the Indy 500 this year by running Sato off the road.

asshole.


That's not F1, and Franchitti won clean as a whistle.
 
2012-10-22 09:51:41 AM

Carth: Oh no he used steroids in a sport where everyone used steroids! So officially no one won all those years since?


That is in fact their official position at the moment. Yes. It's retarded.

If everyone is "cheating", couldn't we just call that "training"?
 
2012-10-22 09:51:48 AM

BeesNuts: EyeballKid: Skarekrough: You missed the point though. What has Greg done for the sport of cycling lately and how does it compare to what Lance's influence has been upon it over the past decade or so?

When you're a sport nearly devoid of "rock stars" it's stupid to take one down any earlier than absolutely necessary, especially when his presence has advanced it as much as it has.

Without Greg Lemond, there's no precedent for Blackball Armstrong to become the "rock star" of his sport.

Skarekrough: Yeah, he cheated, big farking deal.


It's disturbing how prevalent this line of thinking is. Are there really this many self-centered, shiatty parents?

Explain.

What did he do to cheat? Should it be considered cheating and why? Given all he accomplished both personally and for his sport and surrounding organizations, can we establish a moral framework in which to judge him or others who "cheat" in this way?


I'm going to do a bad just at this but... if the testimony of all is teammates is to be believed he cheated by himself taking substances banned by the governing body under which he was racing and engaging in the organization of a doping program for his team. It should be considered cheating because it was against the rules of fair play, it was deceitful and manipulative, and gave an unfair edge against clean cyclists.

The moral framework is- you agree to a set of rules before competing. If you deliberately break these rules and enable, encourage and coerce others to do so while you actively avoid being caught by people trying to enforce these rules, then you are immoral.
 
2012-10-22 09:53:34 AM

Mose: The moral framework is- you agree to a set of rules before competing. If you deliberately break these rules and enable, encourage and coerce others to do so while you actively avoid being caught by people trying to enforce these rules, then you are immoral.


But, you see, this situation was different from every other moral quandary you could imagine, because in this case, everybody was doing it!

Seriously, nobody here has told a child that used the "everybody's doing it" excuse to fark the fark off with that bullshiat?
 
2012-10-22 09:54:22 AM

drewsclues: lohphat: drewsclues: earthwirm: In before the Lance haters.... Oh. Too late. Everyone hates a winner.

There's a a lot of smug whining in this thread. I glad you all attribute such high morals to riding a goddam bicycle. Get over it. Winners take every advantage and bend every rule. If you you're not cheating, you're not trying. Period.

You sound Conservative.

Liberal as they come. I just don't think sports matter enough in the world to get all pissed when someone bends to rules to their advantage. Don't want to get pissed when people make money off cheating at sports? Stop paying billions to the people that play the games. Simple as that.


And yet your attitude describes the Republican platform perfectly.
 
2012-10-22 09:54:25 AM
At least this witch hunt is finally over. I've been a big Lance fan for years and never had any doubts about him doping, it was pretty obvious. Cycling is one of, if not the dirtiest sport in the world. Everyone around him was doping, he was too. And he still won 7 in a row, He was still the best.

It's pretty well known that Lance Armstrong is a gigantic asshole, but he's done a lot of good as well. His foundation has raised an incredible amount of money for cancer research, and Lance himself brought cycling into prominence in the United States.

Kind of sad that they had to make an example of someone, but if they did, he was the obvious choice. He was an asshole, hated by the Europeans, and he won 7 tours in a row. You wanna make an example of someone? Go after the biggest, and that's what they did. I personally have never given a shiat if he was doping, everyone was and he was still the best. He'll always be one of the greats anyway, it's tough to demonize a doper in a sport where everyone is cheating. And he trained like a motherf*cking animal.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-10-22 09:55:20 AM
maybe doping should be mandatory.
 
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