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(Jalopnik)   A manual transmission is the only real way to drive and the author of this article needs to deal with it   (jalopnik.com) divider line 397
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20430 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2012 at 1:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-22 11:43:15 AM

Skarekrough: incrdbil: Manual transmissions hold no advantage over automatics in performance.

Bullshiat.

Five years ago I went looking for a Honda Element. I drove a half dozen of them, all barely had the power to get out of their own way.

Last one I drove was a stick shift. I was in a cold sweat merging onto a state highway from the dealers parking lot. By the time my test drive was over I couldn't get my wallet out fast enough.


well there's your problem. the last time you attempted to drive one was 5 years ago.

now we are at the point where 6 speed autos are the norm in cars (unless you buy Toyota), and 8 speed autos are hitting the premium segment. VW, Ford, and Hyundai offer dual-clutch transmissions.

the 8 speed automatic from ZF, has shown no acceleration or MPG penalty vs manuals in BMW or Audi models. It is also used by Bentley, Jaguar, and Land Rover......and will soon be offered across across Chrysler's models.
 
2012-10-22 11:52:33 AM
I don't even know what this "flappy paddles" shiat is, but I do own a 77 Toyota truck with manual transmission.
 
2012-10-22 12:10:01 PM
I sort of feel like anyone with an automatic doesn't get to complain about gas prices ever again. If you're concerned with fuel economy why did you deliberately choose a car which is less economical? Or, in the case of modern autos, if you're concerned with saving money why did you just spend $40k on a car? It's as logically consistent as eating everything you can possibly get your hands on and then complaining that what you're eating isn't healthy.

I'd also agree with the comment up there about the Gawker network being mostly sensationalistic garbage these days, and I don't even particularly disagree with the conclusion of the article.
 
2012-10-22 12:12:42 PM

RockyMtnGirl: Semi-automatic is the way to go. I live in the mountains and commute to the city. I love having control in the mountains, especially in snow, and I equally love not having to shift in rush hour traffic. Best of both worlds. I don't think I'll ever buy anything else.


100% agree
 
2012-10-22 12:32:08 PM
Driving a manual is fun for me, it's not for others. My girlfriend drives an auto and that's fine because it's not a chrysler product, therefore I don't have to rebuild the transmission all the time.

/jeep owner
 
2012-10-22 12:33:34 PM

Some.Farkin.Guy: Driving a manual is fun for me, it's not for others. My girlfriend drives an auto and that's fine because it's not a chrysler product, therefore I don't have to rebuild the transmission all the time.

/jeep owner


Get the irony police, this one's above my pay grade.
 
2012-10-22 12:44:57 PM

i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.


It also doesn't provide the fun of, "pop starting," the vehicle on a hill or with your buddies pushing it when the battery or starter are hosed.
 
2012-10-22 12:45:58 PM
The maintenance costs for a manual transmission are far far far lower than an automatic.
 
2012-10-22 12:50:38 PM

Alonjar: Oh whatever, you guys know what i meant... foot activated clutch while driving.

An automatic clutch is still an automatic.. arguing semantics.


Can they stall it off the line and leaving the pits? Yes ..

Can manually working the clutch make a difference between winning and losing? Yes ..

your point .. fails
 
2012-10-22 01:08:36 PM

Gdiguy: I kind of think it's just a matter of where you're driving to ask the question of "fun"

Driving around town stopping at traffic lights / stop signs, manual is kind of a pain in the ass (and especially if you're in an area with a lot of hills... I don't know how you could drive around San Francisco in a manual without being some sort of masochist)

However, I drove an ex gf's manual car from SF to LA, and I have to admit that it was much more fun than doing the same drive in an automatic. I'm sure it's partly just due to the increased activity involved, but I do agree that there's something about having to pay attention to the car that makes it more enjoyable on the highway.


Hills are not as much of a problem in newer manuals. They've come up with a solution to that in a lot of newer manual transmissions. We just got a '13 Jetta with a manual transmission, it has an anti-hill-roll thing in it. It's probably the easiest manual transmission I've ever driven, but it's still loads funner to drive than our other car which has an automatic in it.

Stop and go traffic is less of an issue if you're not humping the bumper of the car in front of you. I've driven a manual transmission in several large cities I've visited or lived in. Give a little space in front of you, maintain a fairly constant speed and you're going to have less leg burning clutch presses. Yes, people will take advantage, but you won't be wearing your leg or your brakes out (which makes this technique good for a stick or an automatic). 

I prefer manual transmissions. They're more control in all situations that you should have more control over. Downshifting for large slopes, slippery conditions and general driving.

Automatic transmissions are starting to make parity with fuel economy now, primarily because the manufacturers are finally putting similar numbers of gears in the automatic transmissions as they have had for the manual transmissions for years. Both our automatic transmission and manual transmission vehicles have five speed transmissions. The big difference is that the automatic transmission has a $700+ premium to buy one initially, and are much more expensive to replace or repair than the much simpler manual transmission.
 
2012-10-22 01:09:21 PM

Claude Ballse:

If you can understand that, then you can understand how the automotive industry operates, and why it always has been that way. But more importantly, what's the big demographic as well that hates stick shifts to the point where they refuse to learn how to operate them?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 425x282]


Well, her and whidbey.
 
2012-10-22 01:17:20 PM
Um... you auto guys realize there's a 5-10% penalty for rockin' the slushbox right?

Fer' instence: Your RX-8 6MT = 180whp / Your RX-8 Auto = 160whp

So you're paying more to get ____ ?
 
2012-10-22 01:18:19 PM

Gdiguy:

Driving around town stopping at traffic lights / stop signs, manual is kind of a pain in the ass (and especially if you're in an area with a lot of hills... I don't know how you could drive around San Francisco in a manual without being some sort of masochist)



Well, I've been doing that for close to 20 years - it's really not as hard as you think.
In fact I've got 140k on my current clutch, though it will need to be replaced soonish.
 
2012-10-22 01:30:44 PM

Threadslayer: Um... you auto guys realize there's a 5-10% penalty for rockin' the slushbox right?

Fer' instence: Your RX-8 6MT = 180whp / Your RX-8 Auto = 160whp

So you're paying more to get ____ ?


My car loses no horsepower between Manual or Automatic, your logic is flawed.
 
2012-10-22 01:49:06 PM
I drive an old BMWX5 with a 5 speed manual. I would have bought a new Toyota Highlander, but they do not sell manual transmission Highlanders in North America, so I was told.
Also, thieves these days can't drive stick, so your car is less likely to get taken.
 
2012-10-22 02:16:20 PM
So supposedly one of the new Mercedes, I think it's the E63, but I'm probably wrong, has a torque converter that feels like a DSG. Now that I'd like to try.
 
2012-10-22 02:23:02 PM
One reason autos are superior to manuals: It's way easier to smoke a bowl in an automatic.
 
2012-10-22 02:25:16 PM
thread tl;dnr

Has anyone pointed out that when you drive a manual your a more aware and attentive driver? You have so many things you have to keep under control if you stop paying attention you could stall out or worse...
 
2012-10-22 02:38:59 PM
Learn how to drive a real car, Nancy.
 
2012-10-22 02:45:30 PM

nopokerface: Some.Farkin.Guy: Driving a manual is fun for me, it's not for others. My girlfriend drives an auto and that's fine because it's not a chrysler product, therefore I don't have to rebuild the transmission all the time.

/jeep owner

Get the irony police, this one's above my pay grade.


Chrysler makes junky auto transmissions, this is a fact. It's hard to fark up a manual transmission, such as what's in my jeep. Maybe I didn't lay down enough snark in that last comment. The auto version of my vehicle has really bad overheating issues and is only a 3 speed. I love my 6 speed manual gearbox, especially when on a hill descent in 4WD low.
 
2012-10-22 02:46:35 PM

Some.Farkin.Guy: Chrysler makes junky auto transmissions, this is a fact.

 
2012-10-22 02:48:22 PM
I meant to include the fact that the one I had tried to kill me several times.
 
2012-10-22 03:00:33 PM

nopokerface: I meant to include the fact that the one I had tried to kill me several times.


I used to have a sebring in auto. That car was a death trap. Every time it shifted it jerked the whole vehicle forward. The Chrysler and Dodge vans are even worse.
 
2012-10-22 03:05:52 PM

Some.Farkin.Guy: nopokerface: I meant to include the fact that the one I had tried to kill me several times.

I used to have a sebring in auto. That car was a death trap. Every time it shifted it jerked the whole vehicle forward. The Chrysler and Dodge vans are even worse.


I had a van, it had a tendency to go completely insane at about 65-70mph in cruise control. It would downshift into 1st gear. Wipers and washer fluid came on on their own, steering wheel locked up....good times.
 
2012-10-22 03:12:14 PM

KrispyKritter:
Screw AAA

Me and Mrs.Kritter have had nothing shy of exemplary service and response from AAA for the 4-5 years we've had our Premium memberships. I'm sorry to hear you were inconvenienced.

--- I prefer manual trans. I feel it is more fun and I have more control over the vehicle at all times.


Side note: AAA will not send fuel if you drive a diesel. Gas, sure, they'll send it out if you run out. A diesel, all they'll do is offer to tow you somewhere.
 
2012-10-22 03:13:49 PM

gsmphoto: I drive an old BMWX5 with a 5 speed manual. I would have bought a new Toyota Highlander, but they do not sell manual transmission Highlanders in North America, so I was told.
Also, thieves these days can't drive stick, so your car is less likely to get taken.


Apparently Murkins are such wusses now that it is no longer possible to buy a Ferrari in the United States with a manual transmission.
 
2012-10-22 03:17:23 PM

TheTurtle: Apparently Murkins are such wusses now that it is no longer possible to buy a Ferrari in the United States with a manual transmission.


Where did you hear this? It isn't true.

We tend not to buy them because they are pieces of sh*t, not because of their daunting manual trannies.

/How many new Ferrari models even offer a clutch pedal option?
 
2012-10-22 03:20:05 PM

FTDA: i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.

It also doesn't provide the fun of, "pop starting," the vehicle on a hill or with your buddies pushing it when the battery or starter are hosed.


The older automatics actually could be pop-started, but we're talking really old, like 1950s/60s PowerGlides and TorqueFlites. They had a rear pump that could spin up enough pressure to get things going. Newer ones, it is for all practical purposes impossible. The intertubes are laden with claims of people who insist they've done it, I don't believe most of them.
 
2012-10-22 03:23:44 PM

nopokerface: TheTurtle: Apparently Murkins are such wusses now that it is no longer possible to buy a Ferrari in the United States with a manual transmission.

Where did you hear this? It isn't true.

We tend not to buy them because they are pieces of sh*t, not because of their daunting manual trannies.

/How many new Ferrari models even offer a clutch pedal option?


Automobile Magazine reported on this a few months ago
.
 
2012-10-22 03:29:26 PM

nopokerface: Some.Farkin.Guy: nopokerface: I meant to include the fact that the one I had tried to kill me several times.

I used to have a sebring in auto. That car was a death trap. Every time it shifted it jerked the whole vehicle forward. The Chrysler and Dodge vans are even worse.

I had a van, it had a tendency to go completely insane at about 65-70mph in cruise control. It would downshift into 1st gear. Wipers and washer fluid came on on their own, steering wheel locked up....good times.


You're bringing back those awful memories, but at least mine didn't lock the steering on me. I would have junked it the first time it did that.
 
2012-10-22 03:31:11 PM

TheTurtle: Automobile Magazine reported on this a few months ago.


Ferrari did away with it. I don't think that was US specific. The test drive in that article is in Marinello.
 
2012-10-22 03:32:02 PM

Some.Farkin.Guy: I would have junked it the first time it did that.


I ended up making Chrysler take it back. They gutted the whole inside trying to figure out the problem and couldn't.
 
2012-10-22 03:32:47 PM
My Dodge 3500 has an automatic, but 4th and 5th are on a clutch. I'm so farking confused.
 
2012-10-22 03:59:18 PM
Take me to Europe and I'll want a manual. Roads are winding and full of roundabouts. It's a pleasure to drive.

Take me to North America and I'll want an automatic. Traffic lights and urban bumper-to-bumper traffic makes me want to say "fark off" and drive by simply pressing the brake pedal repeatedly.
 
2012-10-22 04:14:05 PM

392Zaphod: My car loses no horsepower between Manual or Automatic, your logic is flawed.


Unless you've spent an assload of money souping up the automatic or you're confusing a clutchless manual with an automatic like our dear friend the article writer, yes, yes it does. Automatics are less efficient at moving the power from the motor to the wheels so you have less usable power on top of a heavier unit and you lose even more efficiency as it gets hot (hence the need for things like deeper pans and better pumps for heavy duty towing).

Your engine still makes the same power, but your car as a whole certainly has less to use by the time it gets to the wheels, and that's all that really matters. You could put a 1000 hp motor in a car, if it's only getting 100hp to the wheels, it only has 100hp.
 
2012-10-22 04:29:38 PM
i rented a mustang not that long ago. base model. V6 with auto. it was one of the worst driving experiences of my life. when you stepped on the gas, it literally took a second-and-a-half before the car lurched forward. it was dangerously unresponsive. i can't imagine driving on in LA, trying to merge onto the freeway from those crazy-short onramps. you'd be killed!
 
2012-10-22 06:16:32 PM
Surely a replacement can be found for this phallic stick shift obsession...
 
2012-10-22 09:12:57 PM

Threadslayer: Um... you auto guys realize there's a 5-10% penalty for rockin' the slushbox right?


Some people drive cars made after 1975.
 
2012-10-22 09:53:31 PM
I learned to drive in a manual...76 Toyota Celica. I can't even describe how much I loved driving that car when I finally got my license. I drove nothing but sticks until 2004 when I bought my first automatic and haven't owned a manual since. This post is stupid I'm done typing it.
 
2012-10-22 10:48:25 PM

crab66: Threadslayer: Um... you auto guys realize there's a 5-10% penalty for rockin' the slushbox right?

Some people drive cars made after 1975.


There's a method of measuring net power output for a vehicle called a "dyno".
You strap the wheels to a roller and see how much work gets done.

Manual transmission vehicles, including those made after 1975, tend to lose less power on the way to the wheels.
 
2012-10-23 02:52:12 AM

Shurikane: to Europe and I'll want a manual. Roads are winding and full of roundabouts. It's a pleasure to drive.

Take me to North America and I'll want an automatic. Traffic lights and urban bumper-to-bumper traffic makes me want to say "fark off" and drive by simply pressing the brake pedal repeatedly.


I take it you've never been here?
www.english.rfi.fr 

www.lefigaro.fr
 
2012-10-23 03:51:47 AM
"...you´ve got the gas pedal for the right foot and the other pedal for the left foot....now how do you expect me to work with the pedal in the middle?"
 
2012-10-23 05:45:30 AM

maxwellton: "...you´ve got the gas pedal for the right foot and the other pedal for the left foot....now how do you expect me to work with the pedal in the middle?"


Which explains Montreal.
 
2012-10-23 07:12:31 AM

TenJed_77:
I take it you've never been here?


I was lucky enough not to have to work in Paris. When I went to Europe, it was mostly to work in the Nantes region and off the city outskirts, so I was spared a good deal of traffic.
 
2012-10-23 08:51:42 AM

Shurikane: TenJed_77:
I take it you've never been here?

I was lucky enough not to have to work in Paris. When I went to Europe, it was mostly to work in the Nantes region and off the city outskirts, so I was spared a good deal of traffic.


Ok, that makes a bit more sense then.
 
2012-10-23 09:23:48 AM
pry my manual transmission from my cold dead hands. i am not a car person, i am a driver. i can't tell one expensive car from the other, but the activity of driving is the perfect amount of passive physical activity for legs arms and eyes, and demand for mental attention for my daydreaming ass. man having conquered his environment w/ a/c music n comfy seats doesn't hurt. highway, city, mountain, snow, it's all good to me.

i fear people sacrificing their right to drive to computerized driving in the future more than just losing manual trans =p conquor the highway deathtoll with algorythms followed by being treated like a bike on a highway if you manually control.
 
2012-10-23 09:58:08 AM
I know this thread is probably dead, but what all of you are forgetting is that this debate is pointless. Both automagic and manual transmissions are obsolete. CVT is the wave of the future. Who needs gears?
 
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