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(Jalopnik)   A manual transmission is the only real way to drive and the author of this article needs to deal with it   (jalopnik.com) divider line 397
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20433 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2012 at 1:09 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-22 06:54:50 AM  

dready zim: TenJed_77: Shadow Blasko: starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(

No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)

Try real Belgian white chocolate. It contains real cocoa butter therefore it does contain cocoa

You forget that you may be talking to an american who might, if they were lucky, have seen real chocolate in pictures. To them, if you get a bag of sugar, some fat of any sort, mix it up, make it brown and flavour it with carob, that`s chocolate.

Also, they get no joy from their car so their viewpoint on what makes a car more fun is not valid.


Yes, but you must admit that since the EU changed the law allowing manufacturers to replace cocoa butter with soy butter, you really have to read the packages.
And I love that here in France if you have the "boite automatique seulement" stamped on your license, your pretty much retard by the po-lice.
 
2012-10-22 06:58:46 AM  

TenJed_77: dready zim: TenJed_77: Shadow Blasko: starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(

No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)

Try real Belgian white chocolate. It contains real cocoa butter therefore it does contain cocoa

You forget that you may be talking to an american who might, if they were lucky, have seen real chocolate in pictures. To them, if you get a bag of sugar, some fat of any sort, mix it up, make it brown and flavour it with carob, that`s chocolate.

Also, they get no joy from their car so their viewpoint on what makes a car more fun is not valid.

Yes, but you must admit that since the EU changed the law allowing manufacturers to replace cocoa butter with soy butter, you really have to read the packages.
And I love that here in France if you have the "boite automatique seulement" stamped on your license, your pretty much retard by the po-lice.

pretty much considered a retard by the po-lice
/I really need to start using that preview button.
 
2012-10-22 07:16:56 AM  
I feel safer driving a manual.

If I lived in the city, I'd probably own an automatic. Or just ride my bike everywhere. That's not happening anytime soon though.

I don't care what other people like/choose to drive.

Never driven a dual clutch paddle shift, but I'd kinda like to give one a try. From what I hear about low speed driving though, they sound like they might be a little impractical as a daily driver.
 
2012-10-22 07:19:17 AM  
Since I rarely drive a sportscar on a racetrack, but DO enjoy driving my stickshift on a daily basis, this guy can suck my balls.
 
2012-10-22 07:22:28 AM  
My car has a manual transmission, but my bike has the flappy paddle. Yamaha FJR1300-AE.
 
2012-10-22 07:27:57 AM  
When three hours of your day is spent commuting, driving is no longer fun. I'll just stick with my reliable and cheap Elantra thanks.
 
2012-10-22 07:29:25 AM  
I suppose you manual tranny types also want an old-timey crank handle sticking out of the front bumper. Might as well. It's also another obsolete feature of cars that serves no purpose.

iasshole.org
 
2012-10-22 07:33:46 AM  
I don't really care what transmission I have unless I am going to be in city traffic and have one manual, one sequential/flappy/whatever at the moment, but I'll you flappy paddle enthusiasts one goddamn thing: Don't ever pat yourself on the back over reduced maintenance costs. The transmission ECU went out in my MR2 this year and just the PART was $6,200 in a car I only paid $11,000 for. There was nothing aftermarket, used, wrecked, or rebuilt out there to be had either because it was never a popular car.

/damned thing had better last me twenty years now...
 
2012-10-22 07:35:18 AM  

Tunney: In Europe, everyone drives a manual.


Yes. However, in the US, we've gotten in a negative feedback loop. Manuals are rare enough that it's hard to get the opportunity to learn. Almost anyone who owns one is 'a car person' to some degree (enough to seek out the rare manual vehicle). These are the same people who really don't like other people touching their cars. Thus, I've asked at least a dozen friends over the years if I could try learning stick with them, I've never touched a clutch pedal. Some of the other alternatives (rent a manual vehicle, take a driving lesson in a manual vehicle) are also near-impossible in the US.
 
2012-10-22 07:35:25 AM  
I lived in the city with the worst drivers and the worst traffic. I wouldn't trade my manual for *anything*.
/Also it's harder to steal
 
2012-10-22 07:37:11 AM  
Screw the whole debate about what's more efficient/enjoyable/faster/necessary... what IS a fact is that if we forced everyone on the road today to drive manual, the 60% of the populace who have their craniums inside their rectal cavity and do things like change lanes without signaling, refuse to merge when a lane tells them to merge so that they back up traffic and cause an accident, go 10 under in the fast lane, tailgate, stop in the middle of merge lanes and generally just act like clueless dickheads then these people would not be on the road. People of such low moral and intellectual caliber that can't do something as simple as pay attention don't deserve to be on the road, period, and a manual transmission would do a fine job of weeding them out, or at the very least converting some of them to semi-responsible drivers. I take my driving *very* seriously because it's not my job to make others' lives more difficult and endanger them, and it seems as though very few people do the same.

Granted, I live primarily in the DC metro area, and the one time I drove in New York I almost wept tears of joy at how polite and efficient drivers there are.
 
2012-10-22 07:41:49 AM  
"I see no reason to row myself across town."

- Phil Hill, on why he drove an automatic as his daily driver
 
2012-10-22 07:42:21 AM  
What your future transmission looks like.
www.ctiautomation.net
 
2012-10-22 07:45:58 AM  
I have a GT-R. It is a blast to drive. There's no way I could shift as fast as it does, and I grew up driving "manuals".

/quotation marks because shifting with paddles is manual shifting, too.
 
2012-10-22 07:46:28 AM  
i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.

CSB

Last summer, I pulled up next to a weekend rebel on his Harley. He was rolling the throttle a little and waiting for a left turn light. I was right next to him in the non turning lane in my Miata with the top down.

He gets his arrow and pops the clutch killing the motorcycle. I started laughing so hard that he heard it. Looked like he was ready to push the Harley down to the Honda dealership and buy a used Hondamatic. He got it started and rolled out like a bad ass. Then he almost went in to the ditch because he turned so wide. More laughter.
 
2012-10-22 07:52:40 AM  
The manual vs automatic transmission debate is for nancy boys that don't know jack about performance. It was different in the early days of automatic transmissions but todays automatics can shift perfectly every time regardless of how tired or distracted the driver is. You can also shift an automatic transmission manually. I like to reprogram mine and have been doing so since the '80s. It's easier to do these days since it's computer controlled.

As to the commuters don't need performance line of thought. I am a commuter. My commuting vehicle of choice is a 2005 BMW K1200S. 0-60 in less than 3 seconds, 0-100 in less than 5 seconds and it takes less than 10 seconds to go from zero to jail time. This bike is not used for recreation or racing, it is used to commute 25 miles to work 5 days a week in any weather except snow and ice. For that I use the GTO.
 
2012-10-22 07:58:57 AM  
www.autolife.umd.umich.edu
"All yal biatches ain't driving, this is driving"
 
2012-10-22 08:01:54 AM  
Hipster douchebags now want to drive a stick, ever since automatic transmissions became more efficient than stick. Duh.
 
2012-10-22 08:13:36 AM  
Haven't read the thread so I'm sure this point will have been made, but DSG style transmissions are manual, just computer controlled. No torque convertor or other things associated with an automatic transmission.

Myself? I wouldn't have an auto. DSG with manual selection, well, I've never driven one. But I can't see how being unable to choose a gear could be an advantage with a car.
 
2012-10-22 08:15:31 AM  
LOL this is ALWAYS a debate on Fark when this topic comes up!

People who argue that Manuals are better than Automatics, never account for Auto-Stick... they ALWAYS use the same argument:

1. It's boring!
2. I can feel the car better!
3. I have to pay more attention!
4. I won't get distracted with my coffee or phone!
5. It's NOT REAL driving if it's not manual!
6. It's a MANLY/LIFE Skill that is required!!!
7. You get better gas mileage!
8. It's cheaper!!

LOL all these arguments are fail!

1. Get auto-stick.. it's awesome shifting through gears without the need a clutch.. and if you are tired or stuck in traffic, switch to automatic.
2. Again, get auto-stick.. you can FEEL every gear, every RPM, every shift.
3. Uhh, you should always be paying attention anyway. Also this argument is invalid as a lot of people who drive manuals say they can use their phone, eat and change the radio station without noticing.
4. See above... a lot of you manual lovers say you can still drive and drink your coffee.
5. LOL not real driving... that's why all the worlds highest end, most powerful cars no longer use it.
6. Again LOL at the life needed skill... don't worry, I can use the rotary phone too! I believe knowing how to change a tire is much more important. But, I have AAA platinum service, and they NEVER took more than an hour if I needed them. Also, most cars these days come with run flats. Hell, my car doesn't even have a spare tire or donut.
7. You might NOT actually get better gas mileage if you like to run through the gears. Newer auto-sticks will actually shut down cylinders (my car goes from 8 to 4) to save on gas on long coasts.
8. You got me on this one at first. It is about 1k cheaper to buy a manual than an automatic. But, you know what else? My boss who only drives manual just had to replace her clutch after 70k miles and cost her about 1,500$. My automatic won't need that, and I have the extended warranty anyway up to about 100k miles.
 
2012-10-22 08:17:30 AM  
I miss my standard : ( ! I hope I can find a decent one cheapish in time to teach the snowflakes to drive.
 
2012-10-22 08:21:01 AM  
If only people who bought a manual had any inkling how to drive one. Every day I'm stuck behind some twit who thinks he can drive a manual. Meanwhile, I have to lane-shift and get ahead of him because he has no idea how to shift to the next gear in anything less than 5 seconds. Sorry buddy, but there's no reason to coast at 50 for 5 seconds so that you can shift up and get to the 70 speed limit.

I've watched people who have "driven manuals for 20 years" fail at anything remotely resembling proper shifting. It's just downright sad. Just give it up and buy automatic already.
 
2012-10-22 08:25:01 AM  
to get a manual, i had to order mine online and wait two months for it to be built and shipped from germany.

/worth the wait
 
2012-10-22 08:25:53 AM  

TV's Vinnie: I suppose you manual tranny types also want an old-timey crank handle sticking out of the front bumper. Might as well. It's also another obsolete feature of cars that serves no purpose.

[iasshole.org image 300x438]


If being old tech is the only reason not to use something, that explains why you guys never use your turn-signals.
 
2012-10-22 08:25:59 AM  
What the article didn't mention was repair costs. When the transmission goes in a manual transmission car its relatively easy to fix in your garage with a $500 clutch kit. When your automatic transmission or a fancy racing paddle shifter goes bad you're looking at a huge bill. Case in point? The very same gearbox in the Nissan GT-R the author likes so much is known to fail after only a few months and leave the owner with a ~$20K bill!

http://www.caradvice.com.au/41901/report-nissan-settles-gt-r-transmis s ion-class-action-suit/
 
2012-10-22 08:27:35 AM  
This article is relevant to my interests. I'm toying with buying the new ILX from Acura as a manual (better features than the auto/hybrid). I also miss driving a manual because it is far more fun to drive. My biggest issue is that Mrs. Studson doesn't know how to drive a stick (inb4 snark/obvious joke).
 
2012-10-22 08:28:42 AM  
For those of us that actually enjoy driving an automobile, having as much control of the car as possibly is key.

I prefer a third pedal and the ability to row through the gears. It's a thrill thing, it's a control thing, and it's not for everybody.

/not elitist
//Just enjoys driving.
 
2012-10-22 08:30:15 AM  
Travis a retard that doesn't get "driving"...
 
2012-10-22 08:31:00 AM  

Studson: This article is relevant to my interests. I'm toying with buying the new ILX from Acura as a manual (better features than the auto/hybrid). I also miss driving a manual because it is far more fun to drive. My biggest issue is that Mrs. Studson doesn't know how to drive a stick (inb4 snark/obvious joke).


I drive a 2010 Acura TSX 6-speed manual. It is the best car I have ever driven. Honda knows how to build a proper manual transmission.
 
2012-10-22 08:32:41 AM  
Ive been a car enthusiast for a long time. Manual transmissions are dated technology. The only real advantage is less parasitic drivetrain loss... but unless you can complete your shift in 2/10ths of a second perfectly, every time (hahhahHHaHaHaHA) you arent out driving an automatic transmission.

I have a strong feeling these guys are thinking of slush boxes instead of modern high performance transmissions.

Show me an F1 car with a clutch. Go ahead, I'll wait.
 
2012-10-22 08:34:33 AM  
I'll just leave this here, please support the cause fellow manual drivers:

Link
 
2012-10-22 08:37:21 AM  
I'd prefer three pedals if my knees weren't eaten up with arthritis. I haven't been able to drive a stick without considerable pain since I turned 35.
 
2012-10-22 08:39:37 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Why can't we all get along?

Manual is great for many things, and it generally keeps drivers more attentive, and engaged in driving.

Automatic is great for heavy traffic, and dealing with heavy loads, and is less of a pain in my leg on long trips.

Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

Seriously though, through many years of technological advances, automatic transmissions are no long the sloppy laggy things they once were.

When Mclaren says "The auto is just as good as the manual" I tend to believe them.

I still prefer to drive my manual. I have no issue with anyone who chooses otherwise.

I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one. (along with how to change a tire, check oil.. etc)


This. Driving on trips through mountains do not lend well to automatics.
 
2012-10-22 08:43:02 AM  

Alonjar: Ive been a car enthusiast for a long time. Manual transmissions are dated technology. The only real advantage is less parasitic drivetrain loss... but unless you can complete your shift in 2/10ths of a second perfectly, every time (hahhahHHaHaHaHA) you arent out driving an automatic transmission.

I have a strong feeling these guys are thinking of slush boxes instead of modern high performance transmissions.

Show me an F1 car with a clutch. Go ahead, I'll wait.


... All F1 cars have clutches. Multiplate clutches.
 
2012-10-22 08:49:51 AM  
Id also be willing that most people have not driven the latest generation of tech cars in general... you cant talk about knowing the road better than a computer if you've never driven a car with 6 axis velocity tracking that can respond within milliseconds to vehicle and and road conditions via automatic adjustments to wheel speeds, dampening, steering, etc... you just have no idea, and you've definitely not pulled the G's that would be impossible without it.

Computers are really farking awesome things when properly applied to cars.

Of course, all this cost bucks... but wtf we're talking about car enthusiasts here, since when has go fast ever been cheap. If you're poor, join a miata club or something and stop hating.
 
2012-10-22 08:49:55 AM  

Alonjar: Ive been a car enthusiast for a long time. Manual transmissions are dated technology. The only real advantage is less parasitic drivetrain loss... but unless you can complete your shift in 2/10ths of a second perfectly, every time (hahhahHHaHaHaHA) you arent out driving an automatic transmission.

I have a strong feeling these guys are thinking of slush boxes instead of modern high performance transmissions.

Show me an F1 car with a clutch. Go ahead, I'll wait.

"A modern F1 clutch is a multi-plate carbon design with a diameter of less than 100 mm (3.9 in),[8] weighing less than 1 kg (2.2 lb) and handling around 720 hp (540 kW)."


They are semi-automatics, there's still a clutch, it's just depressed automatically when the driver hits the paddle shifter. They still need to engage it manually when moving to and from a standstill...
 
2012-10-22 08:50:16 AM  

dickfreckle: Shadow Blasko: I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one.

Agreed, but a friend of mine made an interesting point. "I want my son to learn to drive a manual, but where the hell do I find one? Unless you have a friend's manual you can borrow for an afternoon, teaching kids how to drive one is going to be a hassle. Not impossible, but a hassle when you and your wife's cars are both automatics. This is true in America, at least. In Europe and many other places, the 11 year-old paper boy already knows how to drive a stick.

I learned from a friend in high school, but this was in the early 90s when manuals were still somewhat common.

CSB alert: About a year ago I was out with some friends, and this one girl got too drunk to drive. So I offered, having a friend follow to take me back. She asked if I could drive a stick. When I got to the vehicle, I was honestly shocked that it was a brand new Saturn Vue, or similar small SUV/crossover whatever. When I smiled and complimented her for driving a stick she said, "I had to wait three weeks to get one with a manual. I farking hate automatics."

As you can presume, I fell in love right on the spot. We dated for a few months.


Probably WAS a Vue. When it came out, it was pretty much the only small/ medium SUV available in the US with a stick. It was one of the most BORING cars available at the time, too... but god damn it, you could have one with a stick. I see them fairly often. It's actually a popular conversion now for the 2003-2004 4- cylinder models that had the abominable, world's worst transmission ever CVT that GM stuck in them. See, GM is no longer replacing/ repairing them for free, good used ones are nearly non- existent, and rebuilding them is a biatch. I know someone that had one get a new transmission, free from GM, 3 TIMES before 100,000 miles. Now, when they go bad, people find a wrecked one with the stick, and get all the parts to switch it over. They were a pretty good car, with the exception of 03-04 4- cylinder automatics (CVT)
 
2012-10-22 08:51:22 AM  
Oh whatever, you guys know what i meant... foot activated clutch while driving.

An automatic clutch is still an automatic.. arguing semantics.
 
2012-10-22 08:53:50 AM  

Alonjar: arguing semantics.


On Fark? You don't say....

/I knew what you meant.
 
2012-10-22 08:56:19 AM  
Funny how all the author talks about is speed. Probably because he's trying to push a bias and doesn't want non-aligned facts being brought into the picture he's trying to paint.

Do I care about speed in my stick-shift ecobox? Heck no. I care about more control, better milage, and the fact that replacing a worn out clutch costs less than a tenth of the price as replacing a broken automatic transmission. That last one is particularly important: Clutch gone bad on a stick-shift? You're out $200, tops. Transmission go kaput on an automatic? May as well just go buy a new car - it'll be cheaper.
 
2012-10-22 08:56:42 AM  
After a few decades of shifting, I just got tired of it.

Besides, cars and trucks are just a tool for transportation. If it goes from Point-A to point-B with the least amount of fuss and cost, who really cares?
 
2012-10-22 08:57:30 AM  

Studson: This article is relevant to my interests. I'm toying with buying the new ILX from Acura as a manual (better features than the auto/hybrid). I also miss driving a manual because it is far more fun to drive. My biggest issue is that Mrs. Studson doesn't know how to drive a stick (inb4 snark/obvious joke).


If your wife truly loves you, she will learn to drive a stick or she will accept your ownership of a car that she cannot drive.

/My car may be the subject of a derisive meme, but at least it has a manual transmission.
//VTEC just kicked in, yo.
 
2012-10-22 09:00:42 AM  

Dimensio: My car may be the subject of a derisive meme


You have a Corvair?
 
2012-10-22 09:03:49 AM  

nopokerface: Dimensio: My car may be the subject of a derisive meme

You have a Corvair?


I own a 2010 Honda Civic Si. I do have some standards, low as they may be.
 
2012-10-22 09:04:22 AM  
Unfortunately, we have already reached the point where a mass market automatic transmission can surpass a manual for gas mileage, and race automatics (or manu-matics, or dual-clutch auto-magical faux manuals, etc) can out-shift someone who really knows what they're doing.

Manuals are slower than the machines, and will continue to be so in the future. Manuals are a bit of fun, but that's it, unfortunately. They're dying.


www.blogcdn.com
 
2012-10-22 09:05:43 AM  

Dimensio: nopokerface: Dimensio: My car may be the subject of a derisive meme

You have a Corvair?

I own a 2010 Honda Civic Si. I do have some standards, low as they may be.


Those are fun, but I wish they wouldn't make the instrument display so childish in the newest ones. No one over 25 wants any of that ridiculous red flashy crap, or a VTEC light.
 
2012-10-22 09:07:46 AM  

ph0rk: Dimensio: nopokerface: Dimensio: My car may be the subject of a derisive meme

You have a Corvair?

I own a 2010 Honda Civic Si. I do have some standards, low as they may be.

Those are fun, but I wish they wouldn't make the instrument display so childish in the newest ones. No one over 25 wants any of that ridiculous red flashy crap, or a VTEC light.


The VTEC light was added to the 2012 models, thus mine lacks it. The high RPM warning light is actually occasionally useful to me, as it reminds me to change gears before my engine cuts out automatically on the occasions that I require rapid acceleration.
 
2012-10-22 09:17:08 AM  

Alonjar: Oh whatever, you guys know what i meant... foot activated clutch while driving.

An automatic clutch is still an automatic.. arguing semantics.


Semantics is one of the reasons why much of the time these discussions, arguments are idiotic. When someone said automatic transmission 20 years ago, they were talking about a planetary gearset and a torque converter as a power coupling. 20 years ago, a manual transmission was a stick operated constant mesh gear box with a foot pedal clutch.

A lot of gripes manual drivers have against automatics are directly regarding the torque converter-planetary gearset combination and how it's controlled.

An F1 car transmission is closer to what people used to say was a manual transmission in that it has a clutch and a constant mesh gearbox, even though when moving, the clutch is computer controlled, the shifting is by wire and it has a sequential shift mechanism.

This is why I've given up on having an intelligent discussion on this topic with people who don't have at least a cursory understanding of the devices behind the firewall, under the floorboard or in the tunnel.
 
2012-10-22 09:18:49 AM  
As someone who's in a semi right now, I'm getting a kick...
 
2012-10-22 09:20:22 AM  

DarthBart: For a grocery getter, eh, a slushbox is fine.


I disagree: my bicycle uses a manually controlled gearshift.
 
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