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(Jalopnik)   A manual transmission is the only real way to drive and the author of this article needs to deal with it   (jalopnik.com) divider line 397
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20430 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2012 at 1:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-22 03:42:04 AM

carnifex2005: fickle floridian: This article isn't about "automatics". It's about the new generation of electronic, dual-clutch, high-performance transmissions that happen to be paddle-shifted because the driver can't shift them anywhere near as fast as the computer. If all you've driven are manual transmission or traditional automatics (some even with paddle shifters) then you really have no idea what's going on in the modern performance car. There's a reason Ferrari doesn't offer manual transmission on the 458, and the only reason other sports car makers still have manual is to assuage traditional buyers.

From the article: "Take a current Nissan GT-R to a race track and drive it as fast you can. Then tell me it would be better with a manual gearbox. It just wouldn't be. Your corner speeds will be slower, your straight-line speeds will be slower, and your lap times will be slower. If you drive a GT-R on track and don't feel engaged, well, then you just aren't going fast enough."

Welcome to the 21st century.

Exactly. These clutch guys sound like those moronic audiophiles who only listen to vinyl.


Grrr.

I'm an audiophile with a turntable and I drive a clutch.

I use a turntable because about 50% of the music recorded before the CD has not been transferred to digital. I love old music and pick up damned cheap records at junk stores. Music I can't get on any other format. Yes, I buy used CDs, too. In terms of sound quality, hi-rez digital is the best. I have about 400 recordings on SACD and DVD-A. I'd buy everything in those if I could. Vinyl is simply good enough to enjoy otherwise unavailable music.

I drive a clutch because I'm a DIY'er and a cheapass. I can replace a clutch for about $500 and several hours of labor. I cannot DIY a slushbox rebuild, which runs around $3,000-$5,000. Fark everything about that.
 
2012-10-22 03:44:26 AM
Honda came out with the NC700. You can get it with a manual clutch, or with a paddle shifter (actually little switches activated with fingers on your left hand) which has the option to go full auto transmission. My left foot would go insane. But it does have ABS.
www.ridethewildwind.co.uk
 
2012-10-22 03:45:59 AM
A modern automatic is just fine with me. Unless you are a truly skilled driver the savings in fuel or power delivery are non-existent.

The only reason to drive a manual anymore is for fun and feel. And it stops being fun after about the third week of stop and go traffic if you live in a more urban area.



It seems that people can find just about anything to be snobbish about.
 
2012-10-22 03:50:27 AM
Seeing that I currently race this:
fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net
(yes this was at an autox event and not a track day, but whatever)

And that I occasionally race these:
fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net

as well as a Lambo Gallardo, Audi R8, Porsche 996 (personal favorite) and a Corvette Z6, I can say that the flappy paddle is the way to go. But it has to be the real flappy paddle. Not the tiptronic (or whatever it's callled) flappy paddle. A real flappy paddle allows you to drop a gear when another automatic wouldn't let you do it for fear of hurting the car. The paddle shift in the Ferrari is astonishingly good. But when it comes time to drive to the store, and back in to a parking spot, they are a serious irritation. In a race to reverse in a parking spot, a traditional manual will beat the flappy paddle all day. Though I should state that the 996 has a traditional manual and it's still the car I pull the fastest lap times in. It's just that good. A flappy paddle would maybe make it marginally better.

So how about you just buy the car/gearbox that best suits your needs, and we all just shut up and let the other person drive whatever they want? Sound good to everyone?

Oh, and for God's sake everyone, learn to at least change a tire on your own. It's a necessary life-skill.
 
2012-10-22 03:55:48 AM
xiaodown

The point of the manual transmission is being able to control the torque output of the engine by selecting which gear you're in, not to have something to do with your hand other than scratch your balls.


And the hand crank to start your engine was there to build up manliness -- provided you avoided breaking your arm when it fired backwards.

I enjoyed the manual trans -- until I drove one all day long as a courier and discovered the joy of grinding gears when I got tired, in a hurry and had to get out of some clowns way. Later, I discovered the joy of having to replace the clutch plate. Even more later I found out my 5 speed could drop a gear, making it a two speed.

Still, it was fun.

But, so were the floor starter and high beam buttons. I still miss the manual vent controls. I also miss the huge quadrajet 4 barrel carb I had on my 1967 GTO -- with a custom air filter (chrome) bolted on top that only kept things the size of VW's from being sucked in.

I couldn't afford the gas today. Plus Pontiac dropped a plastic timing gear in the massive V-8 that shredded at around 60,000 miles. Not broke. Shredded. Turned into powder. Which then fell into the oil pan, to be sucked up and sprayed all through the engine, where it melted and clogged every oil port possible.

The replacement gear? Steel.

Planned obsolescence? Now why would Pontiac do that?

I drove a series of small trucks, like the Isuzu P'up and a Ford Courier and had fun with their standard transmissions. The Isuzu was surprisingly durable. The Courier was not.

The GTO had a 'slap stick' racing shift on the floor for it's automatic trans. Push a tab and a lock out opened up so you could shift by hand without ramming the thing in reverse. That was kinda thoughtful.

I miss wing windows also. I found those real useful -- except when the occasional bumblebee got scooped up and fired into my jacket. They came out with little triangular screens you could fit on the window later.

I also recall the useful chrome rain shields over the side windows of cars and the bigger, chrome sun shield that stuck out over the windshield.

Then again, I recall wheel well covers, which I thought sucked.

Now, I recall ball joints wearing out nearly as soon as you drove your car off the lot. Expensive to fix. Someone made them sealed, with lub inside. Later, some cool dude developed a way to drill into the casing and install grease ports. Cost about $4.00 to have it done. Then you used a grease gun to pump in fresh grease periodically, which forced out the old, which had accumulated sand from the roads.
I haven't come across a car or truck with ball joint problems in years.

My car, a Buick, has over 150,000 miles on it. I change the oil every 10,000 miles, since I use a synthetic. I add a/c gas once a year, since the damn thing has a pinhole leak I can't find and the shops want an arm and a leg to find it for me.

My brother, a mechanic, owned it before me. He kept it up. When a van was given to him, he discovered the insurance coverage for his truck, the van, his daughter's car and this car was too high. So, he sold it to me.

The only problem I've had with it was the damn battery. Those squirrelly cables on cables things. Never made good contact, so I cut the ends off, bolted them all together, put on replacement heads and it's been just fine.

With most of my other cars, I spent a lot of time keeping junk yards in business, buying parts. I kept a few shops busy replacing engines, rebuilding them and fixing transmissions.
I can't even tune up this car myself. It's got a computer chip in it. However, I don't have to constantly replace fluids, parts and wonder if the darn thing will start. Plus, it's no longer 'common' to buy a used car that burns oil.

And, the timing pulley will not turn into powder at 60,000 miles. There's no 'gear' and no 'chain'. Just a ridged belt.

Times have changed and, mostly, for the better.

BTW. I recall when they switched from standard brakes and steering, to power. I also recall when disk brakes appeared. Much better.
 
2012-10-22 04:00:46 AM
I kind of think it's just a matter of where you're driving to ask the question of "fun"

Driving around town stopping at traffic lights / stop signs, manual is kind of a pain in the ass (and especially if you're in an area with a lot of hills... I don't know how you could drive around San Francisco in a manual without being some sort of masochist)

However, I drove an ex gf's manual car from SF to LA, and I have to admit that it was much more fun than doing the same drive in an automatic. I'm sure it's partly just due to the increased activity involved, but I do agree that there's something about having to pay attention to the car that makes it more enjoyable on the highway.
 
2012-10-22 04:01:29 AM

WhiskeyBoy: Oh, and for God's sake everyone, learn to at least change a tire on your own. It's a necessary life-skill.


static.ddmcdn.com
 
2012-10-22 04:12:12 AM

themindiswatching: Voiceofreason01: What most of you people do on your commute isn't "driving"

[streetsblog.net image 485x323]

/GIS for "distracted driving"


Hard to drive like that in Boston...

you need a finger free.
 
2012-10-22 04:16:26 AM

StoPPeRmobile: WhiskeyBoy: Oh, and for God's sake everyone, learn to at least change a tire on your own. It's a necessary life-skill.

[static.ddmcdn.com image 400x300]


[Error. No Signal]

[Battery Life Remaining: 2%]

I'll learn how to do things, you learn how to depend on twitchy tech.
 
2012-10-22 04:17:34 AM
Oh, and, anyone been to NZ lately?

I was flummoxed by my shiny rental car there back in the early 90's...until I realized that extra knob on the dashboard was a choke...
 
2012-10-22 04:19:00 AM
Manual transmissions hold no advantage over automatics in performance. Automatics, by and large, now perform as well or better. Manuals may, for now, be cheaper. As with all dwindling items of outdated technology that mainly have 'purist' appeal, and serve no real valid purpose, that may change over time.

That said, some people have fun with them. I'm all fine with that. If you have fun driving, then have fun with a manual. Your definition of the 'pure' driving experience has no meaning beyond you. A stick shift makes you feel connected? Good for you. My rear end in the seat makes me feel just as connected, but that's just me.
 
2012-10-22 04:25:09 AM

Shadow Blasko: StoPPeRmobile: WhiskeyBoy: Oh, and for God's sake everyone, learn to at least change a tire on your own. It's a necessary life-skill.

[static.ddmcdn.com image 400x300]

[Error. No Signal]

[Battery Life Remaining: 2%]

I'll learn how to do things, you learn how to depend on twitchy tech.


If you can't indentify where your spare tire is, and knowledge of how to change it, you shouldn't pass your drivers permit test.
 
2012-10-22 04:26:26 AM

incrdbil: Manual transmissions hold no advantage over automatics in performance.


Please see my above post on the RX-8, and get your lying head out of your ass. It's blocking the flow of shiat so much it seems to be flowing over into your keyboard.
 
2012-10-22 04:30:22 AM

Mad_Radhu: I've done it in my automatic a few tikes when Seattle has been hit with nasty winter storms. Automatics DO have those lower gears, you know, and you can control your speed and torque on ice almost as well as you can with a manual.


Not so much.

Seattle's one thing. Spend some time in Alaska, then come talk to me about it.

In icy conditions and deep snow, there's a big difference between the two. First, it's much easier to rock out of deep snow with a clutch. Bounce it and use the inertia. With an automatic, you have to keep shifting, and there's a delay between the shift and disengagement that's hard to time.

Second, the problem on ice is getting started and stopping while keeping the wheels straight. With an automatic, you're at the mercy of your idle speed starting out -- a clutch helps you adjust it so your wheels don't sit there and spin. Using engine braking and clutch helps you keep it straighter than just shifting to a lower gear and again, being at the mercy of your engine speed.

You probably don't have to worry much about it in Seattle, but when you do it several months out of the year, it's a different story.
 
2012-10-22 04:35:20 AM
Bought one of these in my second season of racing... Installed it on my first F1 chassis.

www.translogicuk.com

It shifts a great deal faster than I ever could with my foot. Blink-of-the-eye-wide-open-throttle shifting. Also includes launch control, traction control, and auto blip on downshifts. It convinced me that flappy paddle was the way to go when it comes to high performance.

Here's video of a test run after I got the system installed and dialed in... listen to how fast it bangs through the gears... Translogic Test Run ~ CSR chassis / CBR1000RR powerplant
 
2012-10-22 04:36:25 AM

tzzhc4: People who say driving a manual transmission isn't fun typically haven't driven a manual transmission. Sure paddles are easier and computer controlled shifting is faster and more effcient but a manual transmission is fun to drive (execpt in stop and go traffic).


You have factual, scientific standards that clearly identify if a particular experience and situation will be universally percieved as fun by all humans? Really? How fascinating. You should look into publishing that.
 
2012-10-22 04:38:08 AM

Cewley: steering and pushing the gas pedal is not driving.


The highway is pretty straight, so I'm hardly steering.
And I don't need to push the gas pedal, because I've got the cruise control set to 54mph.
Sorry, what were we talking about?

/Anyone who calls it "flappy-paddle" gets their opinions from Top Gear and can shove it.
 
2012-10-22 04:46:11 AM

I Like Bread: /Anyone who calls it "flappy-paddle" gets their opinions from Top Gear and can shove it.


I've taken the liberty of notifying Wikipedia, McLaren, and Mercedes for you.
 
2012-10-22 04:47:03 AM
The stick-shift is the pleasure center of the vehicle. Automatic means your just steering and pushing the faster pedal.
 
2012-10-22 04:47:27 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Seattle's one thing. Spend some time in Alaska, then come talk to me about it


Yes, the least populated state in America is what we should base all of our automotive needs on.

Lenny_da_Hog: With an automatic, you have to keep shifting, and there's a delay between the shift and disengagement that's hard to time.


Huh? You can handle the manual, but the automatic is too complicated to time? You're like a transmission savant.
 
2012-10-22 04:53:02 AM

i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.


Bull... Look at all the people texting and driving, for example...
 
2012-10-22 04:55:28 AM

Soupysales: Lenny_da_Hog: Seattle's one thing. Spend some time in Alaska, then come talk to me about it

Yes, the least populated state in America is what we should base all of our automotive needs on.

Lenny_da_Hog: With an automatic, you have to keep shifting, and there's a delay between the shift and disengagement that's hard to time.

Huh? You can handle the manual, but the automatic is too complicated to time? You're like a transmission savant.


There are so many talented trolls on Fark. You are not among them.
 
2012-10-22 04:56:31 AM
Another story that is timely with the rise of driverless cars.
 
2012-10-22 05:04:29 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: There are so many talented trolls on Fark. You are not among them.


Those are legitimate responses from me. I apologize if you feel you're being trolled. But I do suppose that claim is easier than responding to my initial (and very real, I'll reiterate) position that your notions are extremely situational and plain dumb, respectively.
 
2012-10-22 05:25:02 AM
As a person who drives manual, I prefer automatic. Suck it haters
 
2012-10-22 05:29:20 AM
USA
Me: 1997 F 250 7.3ltr diesel stick can pass everything in sight crossing Teton Pass pulling a 4 sled trailer.
Wife: 2007 Boxster stick wife let me drive it once...fun car.
Italy
Me and wife: 2010 Panda Cross diesel STICK of course. 60,000 klicks on curvy mountain road in Basilicata, Italy.


Any of the above vehicles would be crap without a manual transmission.
Manual much safer for braking, passing when broken lines are short or there's distant oncoming cars, or whenever you needs some instant torque to get out of the way of something. Should we talk about better gas mileage????
 
2012-10-22 05:31:31 AM

Soupysales: Lenny_da_Hog: There are so many talented trolls on Fark. You are not among them.

Those are legitimate responses from me. I apologize if you feel you're being trolled. But I do suppose that claim is easier than responding to my initial (and very real, I'll reiterate) position that your notions are extremely situational and plain dumb, respectively.


Dunning-Kruger effect on your part.

To rock a car out of snow, you have to time it precisely so that you disengage at the point the tires start to slip, let the car rock in the other direction, re-engage until it slips, let it rock again, and the inertia you build eventually plows you through the snow.

An automatic transmission has a delay when shifting from N to R, or N to D. You end up spinning your wheels and creating ice on the snow pack, or losing inertia by shifting out of gear too soon while precompensating for the delay. A clutch gives you precise control by immediately disengaging the transmission.

And I clearly said that it may be fine for Seattle, but where people drive in ice and snow for months at a time, it makes a big difference. That goes along with the whole, "drive what you're comfortable with for your driving needs" thing that I was talking about. I didn't say automatics should be taken from the market, I said there are differences between the two.

If you are not a simpleton troll, you are merely a simpleton.
 
2012-10-22 05:38:52 AM
Lenny_da_Hog
If you are not a simpleton troll, you are merely a simpleton.

"If you don't understand what I'm saying when I jump from point A to point E without actually explaining anything, it's all your fault."
 
2012-10-22 05:39:34 AM

Claude Ballse: If I may be so bold, allow me a few seconds for an alternate opinion.

Look at these:

[image.off-roadweb.com image 640x480]

Know what those are? Those are the Clutch Packs out of an automatic transmission. They are designed to sacrifice themselves in order for an automatic transmission to work. And on modern cars with gentle shifting automatics, this is accomplished by allowing these packs to slip more and tear apart more friction material each time.


Never actually driven an automatic that needed to have its transmission repaired or replaced. First car I ever drove was 20 years old when I started driving it. First car I ever bought was 40 years old when I bought it. Last few cars I owned were 10-12 years old when I got rid of them, mostly due to body rot. Last two MANUAL cars I owned needed clutch replacements on the day I bought them.

Maybe what you say is true, but I'm willing to continue to put my faith in an automatic transmission.
 
2012-10-22 05:46:38 AM
Manuals are mechanically simpler, more versatile, get better fuel economy and give more control of the vehicle and are hence safer.
Autos (torque converters, double clutch etc) are much less of a pain in stop/start conditions like congested cities.

Most people live in cities.

But manuals give you much more insight into what the machine is doing and needs, whereas autos tend to encourage a kind of laziness and disinterest which is dangerous to public safety in my view.
But autos have been around for so long and there's so much tech in vehicles now. As a result some modern drivers are so disinterested in, and almost hostile to the concept of, taking an active interest in the lethal weapon they are legally in charge of that the damage is done.
Driver training and enforcement is the answer.
 
2012-10-22 05:50:32 AM

snuff3r: I do 90% of my driving in the inner-city (where i live) and the CBD. I can't stand manual.

Then again, i'm on a motorbike 95% of the time so...


Lucky for you they make a motorcycle with a DCT and button shifters...
Honda NC700X DCT
 
2012-10-22 05:51:50 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Dunning-Kruger effect on your part.

To rock a car out of snow, you have to time it precisely so that you disengage at the point the tires start to slip, let the car rock in the other direction, re-engage until it slips, let it rock again, and the inertia you build eventually plows you through the snow.

An automatic transmission has a delay when shifting from N to R, or N to D. You end up spinning your wheels and creating ice on the snow pack, or losing inertia by shifting out of gear too soon while precompensating for the delay. A clutch gives you precise control by immediately disengaging the transmission.

And I clearly said that it may be fine for Seattle, but where people drive in ice and snow for months at a time, it makes a big difference. That goes along with the whole, "drive what you're comfortable with for your driving needs" thing that I was talking about. I didn't say automatics should be taken from the market, I said there are differences between the two.

If you are not a simpleton troll, you are merely a simpleton.


I appreciate your obvious concern for my mental deficiencies. And I'm suitably impressed by your psychic abilities in pulling my driving history from the ether.

I live in Chicago. I make no claim that our winters can match Alaska, but I think the snow and ice gives a reasonable facsimile. I've driven both automatics and manuals in those conditions. I've been stuck in both. In both cases, I was able to rock the car out of the position I was mired in. But I'm in no way claiming to match your driving prowess, I'm clearly outclassed.

Yes, you've shown yourself to be completely objective on this subject.

POTATO!
 
2012-10-22 05:52:49 AM
I believe in progress. Automatic windows, automatic transmissions.
 
2012-10-22 05:55:46 AM

I Like Bread: And I don't need to push the gas pedal, because I've got the cruise control set to 54mph.


My previous car, a Topaz, a manual Topaz, had cruise control. Just sayin'.

/ (With an engine that small, the manual transmission _definitely_ made a difference. The automatic version was dangerously underpowered.)
 
2012-10-22 05:59:32 AM
This thread is a good indicator of how many people don't RTFA. Author is comparing a manual with a paddle shift high-performance transmission. I tend to agree with him. I love driving a stick shift, but I'd really go nuts to get to drive a paddle shifter on the track.
 
2012-10-22 06:02:12 AM
I blew my clutch and flywheel over the weekend so I'm getting a kick and a $3000 bill.
 
2012-10-22 06:05:27 AM
the fun part of driving a manual is being able to tell the car exactly what to do at any time

the practical side of driving a manual is getting better gas mileage

the big downside of driving a manual is if you live in someplace with steep roads

also stop & go traffic with a manual will make you want to shoot yourself
 
2012-10-22 06:05:32 AM

Zombalupagus: This thread is a good indicator of how many people don't RTFA.


Fark has articles now?
 
2012-10-22 06:07:07 AM

Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.


My car has them... call it the "Masterbation Transmission" because it's sort of kind of like the real thing but not really close enough to satisfy.
 
2012-10-22 06:08:01 AM
Manual transmission = lower fuel consumption = saving the children.
Manual transmission = acceleration in emergency situations = saving the children.

If you care about children you will contact your representative and demand that all vehicles be manual. Why do you hate your children?
 
2012-10-22 06:13:46 AM
drh2.img.digitalriver.com
 
2012-10-22 06:15:49 AM

Shadow Blasko: starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(

No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)


Try real Belgian white chocolate. It contains real cocoa butter therefore it does contain cocoa
 
2012-10-22 06:17:54 AM

Soupysales: I live in Chicago. I make no claim that our winters can match Alaska, but I think the snow and ice gives a reasonable facsimile. I've driven both automatics and manuals in those conditions. I've been stuck in both. In both cases, I was able to rock the car out of the position I was mired in.


Right. There are absolutely no differences in performance between the manuals and automatics, under any conditions. That's what you're sticking to. It's all just fashion and price.
 
2012-10-22 06:27:55 AM
"A Manual Transmission Is Not The Only Way To Enjoy A Car And You Need To Deal With It
Travis Okulski

Car enthusiasts have been bemoaning the lack of manual transmissions in cars for what seems like an eternity."

An Automatic Transmission Is Not The Only Way To Enjoy A Car And You Need To Deal With It
 
2012-10-22 06:30:38 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Right. There are absolutely no differences in performance between the manuals and automatics, under any conditions. That's what you're sticking to. It's all just fashion and price.


You have seen through my charade. You have once again bested me in verbal combat and torn asunder my claim that in many situations that are faced by people (not even the avalanches and blizzards that you normally contend with), an automatic is simply incapable of dealing with snow.

I don't know why I lied. I guess I just wanted to be cool. But you wouldn't let me. I will take this new knowledge, and your psychological diagnosis of my ineptitude, to try and become a better person. A person who will drive a manual. A person who will deliver scorn and disdain on those who do not support our way of life. TO THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION!
 
2012-10-22 06:41:12 AM
In Europe, everyone drives a manual.
 
2012-10-22 06:43:47 AM

TenJed_77: Shadow Blasko: starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(

No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)

Try real Belgian white chocolate. It contains real cocoa butter therefore it does contain cocoa


You forget that you may be talking to an american who might, if they were lucky, have seen real chocolate in pictures. To them, if you get a bag of sugar, some fat of any sort, mix it up, make it brown and flavour it with carob, that`s chocolate.

Also, they get no joy from their car so their viewpoint on what makes a car more fun is not valid.
 
2012-10-22 06:44:00 AM
I give my dad a pass on the matter. My grandfather, as well.

My father drives a concrete mixer; My grandfather drove a big rig, both of them for 12+ hours a day. All they wanted to do at the end of the day was get in their car and get home without having to fark about.
 
2012-10-22 06:46:13 AM

Soupysales: Lenny_da_Hog: Right. There are absolutely no differences in performance between the manuals and automatics, under any conditions. That's what you're sticking to. It's all just fashion and price.

You have seen through my charade. You have once again bested me in verbal combat and torn asunder my claim that in many situations that are faced by people (not even the avalanches and blizzards that you normally contend with), an automatic is simply incapable of dealing with snow.

I don't know why I lied. I guess I just wanted to be cool. But you wouldn't let me. I will take this new knowledge, and your psychological diagnosis of my ineptitude, to try and become a better person. A person who will drive a manual. A person who will deliver scorn and disdain on those who do not support our way of life. TO THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION!


Automatics are great in the snow because they always drive like you are slipping the clutch.....(hint, not so good if you have proper traction unless you want to buy a car that costs more than your house)
 
2012-10-22 06:53:27 AM
Why would I pay thousands of dollars for something I don't need? Automatic transmissions are a waste of money for those of us who don't need them.
 
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