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(Jalopnik)   A manual transmission is the only real way to drive and the author of this article needs to deal with it   (jalopnik.com) divider line 397
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20431 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2012 at 1:09 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-21 06:14:02 PM  
What most of you people do on your commute isn't "driving"
 
2012-10-21 06:20:24 PM  

Voiceofreason01: What most of you people do on your commute isn't "driving"


streetsblog.net

/GIS for "distracted driving"
 
2012-10-21 06:22:16 PM  

Voiceofreason01: What most of you people do on your commute isn't "driving"


What I do on my commute is try to get from my home to work and back, safely, and with minimal hassle. Commuting is not a sport.

If I was driving on a track, I'd definitely want a manual transmission. But shuttling back and forth to work at butt-thirty in the morning when I haven't had enough coffee? Automatic is just fine for that.
 
2012-10-21 06:31:48 PM  
Travis is a girl's name.
 
2012-10-21 06:32:39 PM  
A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.
 
2012-10-21 06:55:44 PM  

R.A.Danny: Travis is a girl's name.



You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talking... you talking to me? Well I'm the only one here. Who the fark do you think you're talking to? Oh yeah? OK.
 
2012-10-21 06:56:03 PM  
Driving A Stick In Rush Hour Traffic Is A Pain In The Ass.
 
2012-10-21 06:57:29 PM  

fusillade762: Driving A Stick In Rush Hour Traffic Is A Pain In The Ass.


Capital Letters Succom To Exhaustion After Abuse. News At Eleven. Try The Fish.
 
2012-10-21 07:13:53 PM  
'Manual elitists,' as I call them, will shirk the notion that a car without a third pedal can be engaging to drive. They say that it isn't pure, it isn't as much fun, they don't feel connected.

Bull. Take a current Nissan GT-R to a race track and drive it as fast you can. Then tell me it would be better with a manual gearbox. It just wouldn't be. Your corner speeds will be slower, your straight-line speeds will be slower, and your lap times will be slower.


Hey, moron. The GT-R has a flappy-paddle transmission. Numbnuts.

media.caranddriver.com

The point of the manual transmission is being able to control the torque output of the engine by selecting which gear you're in, not to have something to do with your hand other than scratch your balls.
 
2012-10-21 07:34:15 PM  
steering and pushing the gas pedal is not driving.
 
2012-10-21 08:09:26 PM  
Aw, look... the people who are most likely overcompensating for some other shortcoming are coming out to talk about how they need a big stick in their hand to feel manly.

Manuals are for alright for racing, I guess. Otherwise, they're pointless.
 
2012-10-21 08:33:47 PM  

xiaodown: The point of the manual transmission is being able to control the torque output of the engine by selecting which gear you're in, not to have something to do with your hand other than scratch your balls.


My car has flappy pedals and I like it. There are some instances (steep declines and icy conditions) when it's REALLY helpful to be able to shift down on the fly, but for some reason I could never find the "sweet spot" on a clutch. I am completely clutch retarded.
 
2012-10-21 08:36:25 PM  

Ambivalence: My car has flappy pedals and I like it.


Same here. The dual-clutch on my GTI is a bit quirky sometimes but I would really rather not drive stick where I live.
 
2012-10-21 09:24:21 PM  
I miss having a manual transmission car.
 
2012-10-21 09:27:49 PM  
Manual transmission is so much more fun, but I'd rather have automatic in the city.

(Though I hate feeling my engine 'argue' with me when I tell it to accelerate)
 
2012-10-21 09:29:10 PM  
I think a manual tranny keeps you more actively engaged in driving because you have to pay attention more.

I like manual transmissions, but in the city, they're just a pain in the ass.
In heavy city traffic, it's like driving a peddle car.
 
2012-10-21 09:40:40 PM  
Automatic transmission is to driving as masturbation is to sex
 
2012-10-21 09:51:02 PM  

Cewley: steering and pushing the gas pedal is not driving.


Gotta be baking a cake while bathed in disco lights and fog. Now THAT'S driving!
 
2012-10-21 09:52:47 PM  
I do 90% of my driving in the inner-city (where i live) and the CBD. I can't stand manual.

Then again, i'm on a motorbike 95% of the time so...
 
2012-10-21 10:01:26 PM  
Oddly the worst drivers I know are typically the ones who biatch about people who don't drive stick and about how they're not really driving. They always seem to think they're a good driver and it's everyone else on the road that sucks, but when I'm in the car with them I agree with everyone else on the road who the problem really is.
 
2012-10-21 10:13:24 PM  
Why can't we all get along?

Manual is great for many things, and it generally keeps drivers more attentive, and engaged in driving.

Automatic is great for heavy traffic, and dealing with heavy loads, and is less of a pain in my leg on long trips.

Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

Seriously though, through many years of technological advances, automatic transmissions are no long the sloppy laggy things they once were.

When Mclaren says "The auto is just as good as the manual" I tend to believe them.

I still prefer to drive my manual. I have no issue with anyone who chooses otherwise.

I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one. (along with how to change a tire, check oil.. etc)
 
2012-10-21 10:21:33 PM  
When I drive a car (I'm longtime motorcycle commuter and don't even own a car anymore), I'm always struck by how motherfarking boring automatics are. All I'd need is "Scarborough Fair" on the radio and I'd instantly fall asleep. Americans might love them, but I think automatics are a threat to liberty. This is what the terrorists wanted.

Even a '92 Toyota Camry is fun as hell to drive when it has a stick.
 
2012-10-21 10:22:00 PM  
I like my 6 speed semi auto, it's still not quite as fun as a real manual with a clutch, but it's a damned site more convenient and it's nice to kick it over into full auto when hands are full. Only drawback is you don't know what gear you're in just by where your hand is.
 
2012-10-21 10:22:18 PM  

Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.


Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
2012-10-21 10:31:12 PM  
Actually, the thing I like most about driving a manual is that it tells me more about what is going on with my car, and the road.

I'll know a lot faster if I the roads are slick, if I have a tire going down... if my engine is missing on acceleration, etc from driving a manual.

That is why I think everyone should learn to drive one. It teaches you things you need to be paying attention to, so you know more about what happens when you press the gas and the car starts to move (or doesn't)

Whether you continue to drive one is absolutely up to you, but you should KNOW how to drive one, and drive one in conditions like rain and snow so you know how the car will behave. It is much better to find that out at low speed than high.
 
2012-10-21 10:36:27 PM  

Shadow Blasko: I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one.


Agreed, but a friend of mine made an interesting point. "I want my son to learn to drive a manual, but where the hell do I find one? Unless you have a friend's manual you can borrow for an afternoon, teaching kids how to drive one is going to be a hassle. Not impossible, but a hassle when you and your wife's cars are both automatics. This is true in America, at least. In Europe and many other places, the 11 year-old paper boy already knows how to drive a stick.

I learned from a friend in high school, but this was in the early 90s when manuals were still somewhat common.

CSB alert: About a year ago I was out with some friends, and this one girl got too drunk to drive. So I offered, having a friend follow to take me back. She asked if I could drive a stick. When I got to the vehicle, I was honestly shocked that it was a brand new Saturn Vue, or similar small SUV/crossover whatever. When I smiled and complimented her for driving a stick she said, "I had to wait three weeks to get one with a manual. I farking hate automatics."

As you can presume, I fell in love right on the spot. We dated for a few months.
 
2012-10-21 10:36:29 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.


Stalling at a red? OK, it rarely happens when I forget which type of shoe I'm wearing, or the soles are wet, and misplace my foot position on the clutch. Backing into a lamp post? When/how does that ever happen?

Shelby GT500, love my stick. Silverado work/plow/winter truck, love my auto.
 
2012-10-21 10:39:52 PM  

Shadow Blasko: Actually, the thing I like most about driving a manual is that it tells me more about what is going on with my car, and the road.

I'll know a lot faster if I the roads are slick, if I have a tire going down... if my engine is missing on acceleration, etc from driving a manual.

That is why I think everyone should learn to drive one. It teaches you things you need to be paying attention to, so you know more about what happens when you press the gas and the car starts to move (or doesn't)

Whether you continue to drive one is absolutely up to you, but you should KNOW how to drive one, and drive one in conditions like rain and snow so you know how the car will behave. It is much better to find that out at low speed than high.


I know that rather quickly driving an automatic. Granted driving a manual trans forces you to be more attentive, but that's not to say you can't be just as attentive on an automatic.
 
2012-10-21 10:40:42 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.


The more I read you, the more I like the cut of your jib.
 
2012-10-21 10:48:16 PM  

Outtaphase: Shelby GT500, love my stick. Silverado work/plow/winter truck, love my auto.


Absolutely. No one is saying that manuals are the best for all things. It's about what's enjoyable and what isn't. If a work truck were part of my life, I'd definitely prefer an automatic because, well, it's a fat work truck.
 
2012-10-21 10:51:25 PM  
Yes, it's possible to make an acceptable sporty car that doesn't have a manual transmission. I suppose it would be a lot like being married to an incredibly hot and witty partner who was terrible in the sack. Sure, you can probably still get through the day, maybe even enjoy the other aspects of that person. And you'll have more free time to do other things. Practical things. You *might* even be a little more productive than me. And yes, sometimes the extra work I'm going through is annoying. Exhausting. Time-consuming. Not productive.

But a lot like that smoking hot crazy-in-the-sack partner who insists on getting wild while you're trying to concentrate on the weekly staff planning meeting, what you call a distraction, I consider to be an often-unexpected source of enjoyment and stupid grins that would be embarrassing to explain to co-workers.

Bonus: If your friends/co-workers know you have a manual (or aforementioned SH, CITS partner), they don't expect you to answer the goddam phone, and they don't get all butt-hurt about it. They know you've got your hands full.
 
2012-10-21 10:53:06 PM  
A Gawker site ginning up a fake argument to drive pageviews? Surely not.
 
2012-10-21 11:01:35 PM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: Automatic transmission is to driving as masturbation is to sex


Automatic transmission is like watching someone else masturbate.

Manual transmission is like a three day orgy on a millionaire's yacht.
 
2012-10-21 11:20:22 PM  

Shadow Blasko: ...I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one. (along with how to change a tire, check oil.. etc)


I wish I knew how to drive a manual. But nobody in my family drives one, so it seems unlikely I'll learn anytime soon. Heck, I've only been in a car with manual transmission maybe a few dozen times in my life (and most of those in Germany with my host family). Of course, I've never learned to change a tire, either (I mean, I have a pretty good idea how, and could probably do it, maybe (there is always the chance it could go horribly wrong, I am a bit of a dunce), but I've never had to).
 
2012-10-21 11:22:13 PM  

dickfreckle: Shadow Blasko: I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one.

Agreed, but a friend of mine made an interesting point. "I want my son to learn to drive a manual, but where the hell do I find one? .


I learned how to drive a stick when I was 16. A 10 speed tractor trailer. I had a summer job as a mechanics helper at a truck leasing company and they taught me how to drive a rig out of the yard and into the shop to get worked on. I could get those biatches up to about 5th speed, double clutching all the way (read: about 25 mph). 

I used to change the oil and grease them. Those things took 48 quarts of oil.
 
2012-10-21 11:24:01 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: Of course, I've never learned to change a tire, either


1-800-AAA-HELP

You're welcome
 
2012-10-21 11:30:12 PM  
I like driving a manual.

But I could give a crap if you do.

The arguments pro and con are idiotic.

Its personal taste, mine of course is better.
 
2012-10-21 11:36:24 PM  

weave: Luthien's Tempest: Of course, I've never learned to change a tire, either

1-800-AAA-HELP

You're welcome


September 17th, 1999. 19:30 A HOT sticky friday night.
Driver is 9 mos pregnant. Blown tire, just north of I-275 on I-71 in Cincinnati. (Suburban Area)
(I mention she was 9 mos pregnant because that is why she did not change her own tire)

AAA Response time. 3.5 HOURS

You go ahead and call AAA if you wanna. The rest of us have stuff to do, places to go.

Last fall I broke a lug nut lock changing a tire on my RX-8. The nearest AAA center to me is less than 5 miles. The one they dispatched was over 25 miles away. It took over 2 hours for them to dispatch the wrong truck (I told them it would take a flatbed, they didn't believe me, so they had to dispatch ANOTHER truck from another location) and it was 7 hours before my car was at a shop... which was less than 4 miles away.

Screw AAA
 
2012-10-21 11:41:19 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: Shadow Blasko: ...I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one. (along with how to change a tire, check oil.. etc)

I wish I knew how to drive a manual. But nobody in my family drives one, so it seems unlikely I'll learn anytime soon. Heck, I've only been in a car with manual transmission maybe a few dozen times in my life (and most of those in Germany with my host family). Of course, I've never learned to change a tire, either (I mean, I have a pretty good idea how, and could probably do it, maybe (there is always the chance it could go horribly wrong, I am a bit of a dunce), but I've never had to).


I would happily teach you both skills.

Take a fall drive through the Lancaster PA countryside and talk about how Gibson Ridge will not install on my damned laptop. You teach me, I'll teach you.

/Not hittin on ya, just noticed in your profile that we have a lot in common.

//Lancaster is as close as I will get to Philly in my car. They sent me a parking ticket two years ago, and my car has never BEEN to Philly. Lancaster/Mt Hope is the closest my car has been. (Closing weekends at Penn Renn Faire)
 
2012-10-21 11:42:26 PM  
Just noticed that the Admins are totally trolling us with the greenlit time on this thread.
 
2012-10-21 11:49:25 PM  
Funny headline, submitter.

I like the capital letters.
 
2012-10-21 11:55:20 PM  

jaylectricity: Funny headline, submitter.

I like the capital letters.


It is a proper writing style for headlines. Nothing wrong with it in this context.

It has fallen out of use somewhat with online publications, but it is a proper technique.

Or were you not being sarcastic? I can never tell.
 
2012-10-22 12:01:44 AM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: Automatic transmission is to driving as masturbation is to sex


In that we all masturbate far, far more than we take admit to, and the people most vocal about sex are those least likely to be regularly engaged in it?
 
2012-10-22 12:02:20 AM  
God damned extra words sneaking into my posts.
 
2012-10-22 12:06:54 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Or were you not being sarcastic? I can never tell.


I honestly thought the headline was meant to be a joke. I don't think submitter actually is this forceful about this subject. I thought the capital letters accentuated that.
 
2012-10-22 12:07:49 AM  

dickfreckle: i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.

The more I read you, the more I like the cut of your jib.


Thank you. I grew up experiencing constant blows to my self-esteem, and it has become my life's high purpose to pass them on to others.
 
2012-10-22 12:09:15 AM  

Shadow Blasko: jaylectricity: Funny headline, submitter.

I like the capital letters.

It is a proper writing style for headlines. Nothing wrong with it in this context.

It has fallen out of use somewhat with online publications, but it is a proper technique.


Not ALL the words should be capitalized. Words like "a", "of", "to", "and", etc don't get caps unless they're the first word of the headline.

And my local newspaper doesn't bother with caps anymore at all.
 
2012-10-22 12:12:59 AM  

fusillade762: Shadow Blasko: jaylectricity: Funny headline, submitter.

I like the capital letters.

It is a proper writing style for headlines. Nothing wrong with it in this context.

It has fallen out of use somewhat with online publications, but it is a proper technique.

Not ALL the words should be capitalized. Words like "a", "of", "to", "and", etc don't get caps unless they're the first word of the headline.

And my local newspaper doesn't bother with caps anymore at all.


True that...
 
2012-10-22 12:20:18 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Luthien's Tempest: Shadow Blasko: ...I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one. (along with how to change a tire, check oil.. etc)

I wish I knew how to drive a manual. But nobody in my family drives one, so it seems unlikely I'll learn anytime soon. Heck, I've only been in a car with manual transmission maybe a few dozen times in my life (and most of those in Germany with my host family). Of course, I've never learned to change a tire, either (I mean, I have a pretty good idea how, and could probably do it, maybe (there is always the chance it could go horribly wrong, I am a bit of a dunce), but I've never had to).

I would happily teach you both skills.

Take a fall drive through the Lancaster PA countryside and talk about how Gibson Ridge will not install on my damned laptop. You teach me, I'll teach you.

/Not hittin on ya, just noticed in your profile that we have a lot in common.

//Lancaster is as close as I will get to Philly in my car. They sent me a parking ticket two years ago, and my car has never BEEN to Philly. Lancaster/Mt Hope is the closest my car has been. (Closing weekends at Penn Renn Faire)


Sounds good to me, but I'm in VA for now (graduate school - though I do go home every so often). :( If we are ever in the same general area, though, I would seriously absolutely love to take you up on that offer. I've actually never used Gibson Ridge, but I doubt I could break it any worse than not installing ;) (hey, the only thing I've broken recently was last year when I knocked a pin loose on my hard drive - I used it held together with duct tape for a few months before replacing it)

The extent to which my car gets into Philly is to drive on 95 between school and home (or really 95 between home and 13 in Delaware). I am not looking forward to making that drive in two weeks, but at least with the Phillies not playing and the NHL lockout, at least there won't be crazy sports traffic. Otherwise, I take SEPTA into the city (I used to date a guy who was very used to taking the train and we happened to live on the same train line (he was about halfway to the city from me), so I'm much more comfortable with it anyway)

And the Renn Faire is awesome, I try to get there every so often, but I haven't been since I last went with one of my PSU clubs a couple years back.
 
2012-10-22 12:29:18 AM  

Luthien's Tempest: Shadow Blasko: Luthien's Tempest: Shadow Blasko: ...I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one. (along with how to change a tire, check oil.. etc)

I wish I knew how to drive a manual. But nobody in my family drives one, so it seems unlikely I'll learn anytime soon. Heck, I've only been in a car with manual transmission maybe a few dozen times in my life (and most of those in Germany with my host family). Of course, I've never learned to change a tire, either (I mean, I have a pretty good idea how, and could probably do it, maybe (there is always the chance it could go horribly wrong, I am a bit of a dunce), but I've never had to).

I would happily teach you both skills.

Take a fall drive through the Lancaster PA countryside and talk about how Gibson Ridge will not install on my damned laptop. You teach me, I'll teach you.

/Not hittin on ya, just noticed in your profile that we have a lot in common.

//Lancaster is as close as I will get to Philly in my car. They sent me a parking ticket two years ago, and my car has never BEEN to Philly. Lancaster/Mt Hope is the closest my car has been. (Closing weekends at Penn Renn Faire)

Sounds good to me, but I'm in VA for now (graduate school - though I do go home every so often). :( If we are ever in the same general area, though, I would seriously absolutely love to take you up on that offer. I've actually never used Gibson Ridge, but I doubt I could break it any worse than not installing ;) (hey, the only thing I've broken recently was last year when I knocked a pin loose on my hard drive - I used it held together with duct tape for a few months before replacing it)

The extent to which my car gets into Philly is to drive on 95 between school and home (or really 95 between home and 13 in Delaware). I am not looking forward to making that drive in two weeks, but at least with the Phillies not playing and the NHL lockout, at least there w ...


I'll let you know if I am out in that area sometime!

I was in Philly during 2008 Halloween weekend for Dracula's Ball, and yeah.. sports traffic in Philly was rough. At least I was in a rental!

/I tried to update GRLevel2 last February during the tornado outbreak because I was living in the crosshairs of the storm system, but had no access to local broadcast media for warning or watches. It broke during the update and has not worked since.
 
2012-10-22 12:54:55 AM  

Shadow Blasko: I'll let you know if I am out in that area sometime!

I was in Philly during 2008 Halloween weekend for Dracula's Ball, and yeah.. sports traffic in Philly was rough. At least I was in a rental!

/I tried to update GRLevel2 last February during the tornado outbreak because I was living in the crosshairs of the storm system, but had no access to local broadcast media for warning or watches. It broke during the update and has not worked since.


Awesome! :)

Being a sports fan, I've been in that traffic a few time, fortunately I've never been the driver (worst was my 11th birthday - baseball game and playoff hockey). Halloween 2008, though... I waited three hours for a train home that day, and on the way home, my little brother had to sit half in my lap because there was no more standing room even (and my dad was almost run over by a bus, and I spent 45 minutes with my brother on my shoulders). And I wouldn't trade that experience for anything :)

That sounds rather unfortunate... Honestly, that is part of why I got my smart phone. Well, and wanting a shiny new toy. Power went out just as a tornado warning was announced for our general area during Irene last year and I had no way to keep an eye on anything. My brother and I were the only ones home, I had to call my ex about six times (just to get him to pick up) to beg him to keep an eye on things for me (he was still in school and very not amused by his ex-girlfriend wanting him to watch the weather, but he did it (he was the only person I knew would be awake, and I was panicked in the wee hours of the morning), so I'll give him that). Wish I had some suggestions for you, but I'm sure anything I could think of, you already have.

/farking PECO being incapable of getting things ready for a storm for which they had a week's warning
 
2012-10-22 01:07:06 AM  
I really don't get people who think driving needs to be an "experience" I want a vehicle to safely and reliably carry me from point a to point b, that's it, I can drive a manual but at this point I prefer an automatic
 
2012-10-22 01:12:50 AM  

FloydA: Voiceofreason01: What most of you people do on your commute isn't "driving"

What I do on my commute is try to get from my home to work and back, safely, and with minimal hassle. Commuting is not a sport.

If I was driving on a track, I'd definitely want a manual transmission. But shuttling back and forth to work at butt-thirty in the morning when I haven't had enough coffee? Automatic is just fine for that.


A manual transmission gives you more control/quicker reaction times for some maneuvers. While it really isn't critical in a commute type situation, having that extra edge can be safer.
 
2012-10-22 01:13:53 AM  

TommyymmoT: I think a manual tranny keeps you more actively engaged in driving because you have to pay attention more.


You know, that's the exact same thing Eddie Murphy said?!
 
2012-10-22 01:15:17 AM  
OK, try this simple test: climb a 20-degree hill in the snow.

In summer tires.

Before 'traction control.'

I have a friend who runs a towing company; he'll collect your shiat at the bottom of the hill while I laugh at you from the top in my 4-speed-equipped '68 Volvo, because I could put that car in 3rd gear and crawl up with the absolute minimum torque necessary. Automatics don't understand the concept of "let's put almost no power on the ground." You don't always want to lay down rubber.
 
2012-10-22 01:15:34 AM  
Cars. One of the most worthless "hobbies" out there. "Yippie! I can drive a car! I have monkey level intelligence and can work a basic mechanical machine while polluting the environment, not to mention increasing the dependency on fossil fuels as well as helping them get more expensive because I spend it on useless shiat like driving around for no reason."
 
2012-10-22 01:15:54 AM  
When I have a little Travis or Travisette running around I'm going to find a way to stick one in his or her Cozy Coupe.

Oh dear GOD.
 
2012-10-22 01:17:27 AM  
Didn't we already have this thread recently and get all the elitism out of the car hipster's systems?
 
2012-10-22 01:18:37 AM  
I don't care, just drive well.
 
2012-10-22 01:20:06 AM  

TheTurtle: In summer tires.


Summer tires aren't designed for snow in the first place, so this isn't a fair test.
 
2012-10-22 01:20:18 AM  

Shadow Blasko: weave: Luthien's Tempest: Of course, I've never learned to change a tire, either

1-800-AAA-HELP

You're welcome

September 17th, 1999. 19:30 A HOT sticky friday night.
Driver is 9 mos pregnant. Blown tire, just north of I-275 on I-71 in Cincinnati. (Suburban Area)
(I mention she was 9 mos pregnant because that is why she did not change her own tire)

AAA Response time. 3.5 HOURS

You go ahead and call AAA if you wanna. The rest of us have stuff to do, places to go.

Last fall I broke a lug nut lock changing a tire on my RX-8. The nearest AAA center to me is less than 5 miles. The one they dispatched was over 25 miles away. It took over 2 hours for them to dispatch the wrong truck (I told them it would take a flatbed, they didn't believe me, so they had to dispatch ANOTHER truck from another location) and it was 7 hours before my car was at a shop... which was less than 4 miles away.

Screw AAA


Me and Mrs.Kritter have had nothing shy of exemplary service and response from AAA for the 4-5 years we've had our Premium memberships. I'm sorry to hear you were inconvenienced.

--- I prefer manual trans. I feel it is more fun and I have more control over the vehicle at all times.
 
2012-10-22 01:23:05 AM  
lol I prefer manual, but the pissing contest in here is kind of ridiculous.

Whatever gets you from Point A to Point B.

Not all of us are car-culture driven auto enthusiasts.
 
2012-10-22 01:24:56 AM  
It's amazing the number of people who think we give a shiat that they drive manual.

/Only Came To Comment About How Farking Annoying The Headline Is
 
2012-10-22 01:25:37 AM  
I have a grey car.
 
2012-10-22 01:26:47 AM  
The dual clutch automated manuals are better than a automatic. Generally they'll actually do what you want when you want instead of the shift suggestion that is an automatic. They're also locked up so fuel mileage and the sporty feel is better.

However they're still reliant on a computer that can't see or sense what's comming. I can do better than they can on inclines or with planning ahead. If you're in manual mode it isn't bad clicking a downshift or many, but I can skip straight to the gear I want just as easy with a manual.

Personally I enjoy driving and having the skill of driving a manual and matching shifts. But, I do believe its comming to a point where a manual will just be a dummy clutch and shifter which are just inputs to the computers that control the clutch and transmission. When it gets to that point it will be a sad day and I hope to have kept an old manual dinasaur.
 
2012-10-22 01:26:58 AM  

BronyMedic: TommyymmoT: I think a manual tranny keeps you more actively engaged in driving because you have to pay attention more.

You know, that's the exact same thing Eddie Murphy said?!


Hey you! Did you catch my post on the ink I wanted to get .. over in the Ponies thread in Geek?
 
2012-10-22 01:27:17 AM  
Capitalize All The Words!
 
2012-10-22 01:28:00 AM  
This article isn't about "automatics". It's about the new generation of electronic, dual-clutch, high-performance transmissions that happen to be paddle-shifted because the driver can't shift them anywhere near as fast as the computer. If all you've driven are manual transmission or traditional automatics (some even with paddle shifters) then you really have no idea what's going on in the modern performance car. There's a reason Ferrari doesn't offer manual transmission on the 458, and the only reason other sports car makers still have manual is to assuage traditional buyers.

From the article: "Take a current Nissan GT-R to a race track and drive it as fast you can. Then tell me it would be better with a manual gearbox. It just wouldn't be. Your corner speeds will be slower, your straight-line speeds will be slower, and your lap times will be slower. If you drive a GT-R on track and don't feel engaged, well, then you just aren't going fast enough."

Welcome to the 21st century.
 
2012-10-22 01:28:19 AM  

KrispyKritter: Me and Mrs.Kritter have had nothing shy of exemplary service and response from AAA for the 4-5 years we've had our Premium memberships. I'm sorry to hear you were inconvenienced.


I have had good service with them when I am not in the Cincy area... They just seem to really be horrible around here.

I use Allstates service now since I get it free...
 
2012-10-22 01:28:43 AM  
Eat it, slushbox:

drewblood.com
 
2012-10-22 01:29:16 AM  
People who say driving a manual transmission isn't fun typically haven't driven a manual transmission. Sure paddles are easier and computer controlled shifting is faster and more effcient but a manual transmission is fun to drive (execpt in stop and go traffic).
 
2012-10-22 01:29:30 AM  
Everybody is forgetting the true value of a manual transmission: roll-starting a car with a dead battery.

Automatics are f*cked. Enjoy your tasty towing bill to the nearest PepBoys.
 
2012-10-22 01:30:11 AM  

Shadow Blasko: BronyMedic: TommyymmoT: I think a manual tranny keeps you more actively engaged in driving because you have to pay attention more.

You know, that's the exact same thing Eddie Murphy said?!

Hey you! Did you catch my post on the ink I wanted to get .. over in the Ponies thread in Geek?


There's a pony thread on geek?

AWAY!
 
2012-10-22 01:30:34 AM  

Bonzo_1116: Everybody is forgetting the true value of a manual transmission: roll-starting a car with a dead battery.

Automatics are f*cked. Enjoy your tasty towing bill to the nearest PepBoys.


Triple A.

And I'm not in a position to swap my decently running van for a stickshift ATM, thanks.
 
2012-10-22 01:31:33 AM  
For a grocery getter, eh, a slushbox is fine. But on anything sport, performance, or heavy duty, I want a manual. A bit of practice and experience and I know where to shift to land on the sweet spots of the torque curve of the next gear and I can shift in anticipation of road conditions ahead.

I can also make a set of brake pads last a hell of a long time with lots of engine braking. Can't do that with the torque converter in a slushbox.
 
2012-10-22 01:31:48 AM  
With the exception of my first hand-me-down vehicle I've driven manual transmission cars my entire life (I'm in my mid-50's). Not because I'm a car enthusiast, but because I've always driven shiatty little econoboxes and I can eke a bit more giddyup out of a manual.
 
2012-10-22 01:31:48 AM  

Bonzo_1116: Everybody is forgetting the true value of a manual transmission: roll-starting a car with a dead battery.

Automatics are f*cked. Enjoy your tasty towing bill to the nearest PepBoys.


Or keep a $10 pair of jumper cables under your seat?
 
2012-10-22 01:33:38 AM  
 
2012-10-22 01:34:48 AM  
Travis, travisette, talk of trannies... Is this the auto critic or the dating page editor?
 
2012-10-22 01:35:37 AM  

Ogre840: Art of Manliness: Every Man Should Know How to Drive Stick


Oh so it's a manly thing now.

Wow, the ideologies people come up with to ritualize such anachronistic technology.
 
2012-10-22 01:36:16 AM  

Shadowknight: Bonzo_1116: Everybody is forgetting the true value of a manual transmission: roll-starting a car with a dead battery.

Automatics are f*cked. Enjoy your tasty towing bill to the nearest PepBoys.

Or keep a $10 pair of jumper cables under your seat?


Whatcha gonna jump from, cowboy? The static in your pleather interior.

If you need another car to stop and help you, might as well not even have the cables.
 
2012-10-22 01:36:21 AM  
When my manual went and I had to replace my clutch, it cost me a weekend a few hundred bucks (and a case of beer.)
When my automatic went, it cost me $3100 to get replaced. Stupid mysterious piston/channel-driven piles of crap.

I have my preference...
 
2012-10-22 01:36:48 AM  
Yeah, manual transmission is great for those situations which you'd like to, but never are, in. Unless you live in Bumblefark, Arkansas or do all your driving at 2am, driving is a farking chore.
 
2012-10-22 01:37:05 AM  

Shadowknight: Bonzo_1116: Everybody is forgetting the true value of a manual transmission: roll-starting a car with a dead battery.

Automatics are f*cked. Enjoy your tasty towing bill to the nearest PepBoys.

Or keep a $10 pair of jumper cables under your seat?


Jumping is a pain in the ass, and requires a second car.

/I've got AAA just in case shiat truly goes bad.
 
2012-10-22 01:38:39 AM  
Someones driving a 450
And his friends are so wild
They're still in their stick shifties
But they feel they have much more style
But I've found . . .

Its all up to what you value
Down to where you are
It all swings on the pain you've gone through
Getting where you are

Its all up to what you value
In your motor car
It all rests on what its cost you
Getting where you are
Its what you value

Someones driving a 6-wheeler
Seems the world is all blurred
Knows hes in a show stealer
With a sound that's uncompared
And I've found...
 
2012-10-22 01:39:01 AM  
But guess what? The manual transmission is outdated technology and there are better things out there. It's time to get over it and say bye bye.

There are better things out there if you suck terribly at driving, or if you're, say, missing an arm or a leg.

Otherwise, a manual transmission is significantly lighter than an automatic transmission and on those grounds alone it wins on efficiency and effectiveness grounds even before you start considering the sheer ridiculous quantity of sensors and crap you have to install to get anywhere close to being in the correct gear at the correct time with an automated system.

Albeit, if you're willing to shell out the absurd amount of extra cash for the sensor arrays and so on, you will actually get better performance out of an electronically-shifted standard transmission variant (different than the usual automatic transmission, which has radial gearing etc). Just, it kinda puts you at an even worse position than an automatic by another metric, which is the expense/work required to replace the damned thing if it breaks.

//Obviously, the usual automatic configuration is typically preferable in a basic commuter car because you do just need it to go when you press the button, probably aren't a particularly good driver, will occasionally be driving sick, etc. there's a reason the radial automatic and the standard are the dominant transmission types on the market.
 
2012-10-22 01:39:09 AM  
hmm.I learned how to drive in a manual datsun 510. I prefer automatics though as its easier on my knees.Im trying to drive, not do a step machine.
to each their own .
 
2012-10-22 01:40:20 AM  
Manuals make for a nice theft deterrent.

Link
 
2012-10-22 01:40:41 AM  
Remember, all consumer choices are a statement of superiority and must be defended with machismo.
 
2012-10-22 01:41:13 AM  

Metalupis: I really don't get people who think driving needs to be an "experience" I want a vehicle to safely and reliably carry me from point a to point b, that's it, I can drive a manual but at this point I prefer an automatic


We're Americans, we demand that everything be a thrill-a-minute death-defying joyride!

This is also why cars that drive themselves will never catch on here, sadly.
 
2012-10-22 01:41:52 AM  
Oh, and they make car starter things that use a sealed lead acid battery to jump your vehicle, or power a boombox, or charge your device and they are only about 80 bucks.But, i have a better option- buy a good battery and make sure you dont leave the lights / stuff on when not driving
 
2012-10-22 01:42:09 AM  
Clarkson is famously quoted as saying that flappy paddle gearboxes can change ".3 seconds faster than you, but why would you want that, and who cares?"

As for skill on a track, perhaps if everyone was driving the same car, with 'normal' gearboxes vs. flappy paddles - but in a real race, even those with all the technical bloat-equipped cars will not be able to properly match the person who has skill. And by skill, the person who is the overall better driver with braking, picking their lines, so on and so forth.

So, sorry techies. even with all the bells and whistles, even with the speed, it's not as awesome, it's a toy and a gimmick, and you'll take my proper gearchange out of my cold dead hands.
 
2012-10-22 01:42:41 AM  

browntimmy: Yeah, manual transmission is great for those situations which you'd like to, but never are, in. Unless you live in Bumblefark, Arkansas or do all your driving at 2am, driving is a farking chore.


I love manual trannys everywhere but in a traffic jam.

Even simple 25 mph city commuting is better in second gear.
 
2012-10-22 01:42:57 AM  

doglover: Shadowknight: Bonzo_1116: Everybody is forgetting the true value of a manual transmission: roll-starting a car with a dead battery.

Automatics are f*cked. Enjoy your tasty towing bill to the nearest PepBoys.

Or keep a $10 pair of jumper cables under your seat?

Whatcha gonna jump from, cowboy? The static in your pleather interior.

If you need another car to stop and help you, might as well not even have the cables.


You must live in a sad, sad place if you can't stop someone and ask for a jump. Last time I need one (movie theater double feature, stupidly left my lights on), all I had to do is ask a lady if I could get a jump.

It took less than two minutes, she was on her way, and I drove home with no radio. Wasn't a huge inconvenience. Besides, if you're stuck on the side of some dark country road with a mysteriously dead battery... yeah, I guess a rolling start is a great thing to have access to. But it's a pretty weirdly specific scenario to base your driving habits off.
 
2012-10-22 01:43:13 AM  

TomD9938: Manuals make for a nice theft deterrent.

Link


One advantage I've seen:

"Hey, I'm moving, can I borrow your truck?"
"It's a 5-speed."
"Oh. Never mind, I'll ask around..."
 
2012-10-22 01:43:54 AM  
Manual snob here. I shift sub-consciously and don't eat/drink while driving so I don't need my right (left in the UK) hand free.

Simpler construction, fewer problems, and cheaper repair costs.

I live in San Francisco and don't mind shifting on hills. In fact, as I drive around the Bay Area hills, I don't have to ride my brakes on the downhill, I just downshift to 4th or 3rd and let off the gas. I go several years between brake pad changes.

Having direct control over torque selection has saved my bacon on slippery roads and evasive maneuvers -- and yes, I also have ABS.

It's an increasing method of theft deterrent.

Women are impressed with my manual skills.
 
2012-10-22 01:44:11 AM  
Sooooo much butthurt from so little provocation. Geez. A guy says "Don't be snobs, your POV is not the only legitimate one out there", and it's all "RAWR HE CALLED ME WRONG I'LL SHOW HIM" e-peenery,
 
2012-10-22 01:46:22 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Remember, all consumer choices are a statement of superiority and must be defended with machismo.

 

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-22 01:46:35 AM  
I bought a brand new truck in 2001. My first new purchase. 2001 Dodge Dakota extended cab V-8 power everything manual transmission.The V-6 with automatic transmission was anywhere from 2k-4k more depending on the options etc. I'm a cheapo, I'll take the manual I have two legs.
 
2012-10-22 01:46:35 AM  
So, I don't race, I dislike driving in general, and high speeds in particular.

Is a manual transmission for me?
 
2012-10-22 01:46:57 AM  
Any moron can learn to drive stick. But it takes a special kind of moron to take any pride in an accomplishment of that particular magnitude.

Notice I didn't say you shouldn't have an opinion, or that there aren't reasons to prefer manual to automatic. And we could have a nice gearheady conversation about relative fuel efficiency and maintenance costs all day long. But that's where most of the frothy rage comes from in stick-threads. People whose major life accomplishment is being trivialized.
 
2012-10-22 01:46:59 AM  
And by wrong, the Germans saw fit to remove the flappy-paddle assery from their R1, re-releasing it in 2012 with... a proper gearshift.
 
2012-10-22 01:47:05 AM  

fusillade762: Metalupis: I really don't get people who think driving needs to be an "experience" I want a vehicle to safely and reliably carry me from point a to point b, that's it, I can drive a manual but at this point I prefer an automatic

We're Americans, we demand that everything be a thrill-a-minute death-defying joyride!


You do realize automatics outsell sticks by a wide margin here, right?
 
2012-10-22 01:47:15 AM  
Ah, the Manual Transmission Taliban is well represented at Fark tonight.

I love being told I don't enjoy driving my car as much as someone with a stick does. Congrats on your fondness for playing with the cars dink. I see it's merits - but much like MMA they're overstated and utterly homoerotic. I can see the performance loss in older gearboxes, but the majority of modern "go" cars run best with autos - even the premium vehicles default to 6-7-8 speed dual clutch autos to achieve max performance. It's (manuals) not just dying because people are lazy (and they are) but because they're out-teched.

To each their own.
 
2012-10-22 01:47:45 AM  

sirrerun: fusillade762: Metalupis: I really don't get people who think driving needs to be an "experience" I want a vehicle to safely and reliably carry me from point a to point b, that's it, I can drive a manual but at this point I prefer an automatic

We're Americans, we demand that everything be a thrill-a-minute death-defying joyride!


You do realize automatics outsell sticks by a wide margin here, right?


*inb4 millions of women drivers*
 
2012-10-22 01:47:55 AM  
Jalopnik successfully troll their own readership.
 
2012-10-22 01:48:05 AM  
I don't find that driving a manual in heavy traffic is that much of a bother. God forbid I have to use my calf muscles for something.

Okay, on a steep hill in heavy traffic it's a little annoying. But that's less than 0.1% of the driving I do and the other 99.9% of the time I farking love my stick-shift. I hate being forced to drive a slushbox.
 
2012-10-22 01:48:08 AM  
Capitalize Every Word Of Your Headline In Order To Give It That Extra Thrust Of Validity
 
2012-10-22 01:49:56 AM  
I've been driving a manual transmission for three years now. I don't know how I ever thought driving with a slushbox was fun. Except maybe when there's gridlock on the Bay Bridge, but that's about it. It's a handy skill to know regardless of what your driving preferences are.
 
2012-10-22 01:51:33 AM  
Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.


I used to think you were pretty cool. :(
 
2012-10-22 01:51:41 AM  

Ehcks: So, I don't race, I dislike driving in general, and high speeds in particular.

Is a manual transmission for me?


Yes.
 
2012-10-22 01:52:33 AM  
AAA may well be the most useless program I ever signed up for. If I wasn't waiting four hours for a tow because my fuel lines froze up, they were towing me and my broken clutch cable OUT of an AAA garage to another garage because they didn't want to deal with it. For the record, that's "out of the garage within walking distance of my apartment, to one far enough away that they charged me for the tow and I needed to take a cab home." Best as I can tell, they aren't even remotely interested in cars and are just a place to throw money into. At least with World of Warcraft I get a video game out of it.

I have no preference for manual or automatic; I bought a stick shift because it was $1,200 cheaper than the same model car with an automatic, but was worried that I'd come to loathe the stick shift in about six months and would ultimately hate the car. Three years later, that stick shift is the only thing I LIKE about the car; the rest of it is a piece of crap. A stick shift, by itself, does not an awesome sporty fun vehicle make.

People who say "that's not driving, that's steering" risk being slapped for a snob by me; I usually ask them how eager they are to go back to typewriters, dial-up modems, VCR's, or dial phones on party exchanges. It seems to be mostly Australians who feel this way, though. To me, a stick shift is something that makes the car feel like a toy and gives an illusion of power from the driver to the engine, but my car starts to whine at about 2500 RPMs, so it's not fooling me one bit.
 
2012-10-22 01:52:35 AM  

starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(


No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)
 
2012-10-22 01:53:24 AM  
I bought a car with a stick because a manual transmission generally gives you better gas mileage. It's less costly to repair than an automatic, and, it pretty much doubles as a built-in anti-theft device.
 
2012-10-22 01:54:46 AM  

Shadowknight: You must live in a sad, sad place if you can't stop someone and ask for a jump. Last time I need one (movie theater double feature, stupidly left my lights on), all I had to do is ask a lady if I could get a jump.


A valid point, but.. sadly, I know I'll never ask a stranger for a jump start again.

A friend of mine was shot and killed this May for doing that in a pretty nice community outside of Atlanta this year.

Just knocked on a door, and took a shot in the chest.

Stupid stupid world sometimes. He was one of the nicest people you would ever hope to meet.
 
2012-10-22 01:55:08 AM  
Well the limp-wristed froot brigade showed up for this in force, didn't they?
 
2012-10-22 01:55:35 AM  

Shadowknight: doglover: Shadowknight: Bonzo_1116: Everybody is forgetting the true value of a manual transmission: roll-starting a car with a dead battery.

Automatics are f*cked. Enjoy your tasty towing bill to the nearest PepBoys.

Or keep a $10 pair of jumper cables under your seat?

Whatcha gonna jump from, cowboy? The static in your pleather interior.

If you need another car to stop and help you, might as well not even have the cables.

You must live in a sad, sad place if you can't stop someone and ask for a jump. Last time I need one (movie theater double feature, stupidly left my lights on), all I had to do is ask a lady if I could get a jump.

It took less than two minutes, she was on her way, and I drove home with no radio. Wasn't a huge inconvenience. Besides, if you're stuck on the side of some dark country road with a mysteriously dead battery... yeah, I guess a rolling start is a great thing to have access to. But it's a pretty weirdly specific scenario to base your driving habits off.


Pennyslvania, middle of the woods. If you can find a jump.

Personally never had a dead battey. But a rolling start is just one of many options you have with a manual. Automatics are fairly blah, and they increase your risk of sleeping at the wheel by a lot, because you ain't doin' half the stuff you do when you're driving a stick.
 
2012-10-22 01:57:22 AM  
My last 4 vehicles have been manual transmissions and I love the feel of it.

My latest car has every option in it, just like it's automatic counterpart.

It's not about being able to shift slightly faster with an SMG or an Automatic. It's about the enjoyment of pressing in the clutch, downshifting two gears and taking that turn as only you know how.

Plus I've never ever had a transmission problem with a manual car. No overheating issues, not a thing. Beat on the clutch and it will have to be replaced but treat it well and it will never break on you.

I do lament that fact that it getting harder and harder and find the kind of cars I want in stick. Every few years when I get a new car it gets harder and harder to find what I want. sigh.
 
2012-10-22 01:59:42 AM  
I want to have sex with a car.

Tonight.
 
2012-10-22 02:00:28 AM  

Shadow Blasko: starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(

No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)


White chocolate is alright in certain instances, but you're right, it's just not chocolate.

And things on the steering wheel are much better in theory than in practice. I changed my radio channel twice yesterday just taking a couple turns.
 
2012-10-22 02:00:29 AM  
One of my favorite things about my RX-8 is that if you wanted an automatic transmission, you got punished for it.

197 hp for the auto, and 238 hp for the manuals.
 
2012-10-22 02:02:46 AM  

Luthien's Tempest: And things on the steering wheel are much better in theory than in practice. I changed my radio channel twice yesterday just taking a couple turns.


I'm a habitual steering wheel drummer when singing along in the car... and it does annoy me greatly when I change stations or songs on the cd when I hit the steering wheel buttons.

I much prefer Jeep's way of doing it, with the audio control buttons on the back of the steering wheel in the 10/2 position. (Then again, the Jeep is an automatic, so ... there you go)
 
2012-10-22 02:03:07 AM  
This is the silliest flamewar ever.

/doesn't know how to drive stick
//wants to learn, though
 
2012-10-22 02:04:33 AM  

Shadow Blasko: No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)


Yabut, DELICIOUS.
 
2012-10-22 02:05:11 AM  
My car is manual, my bicycle is fixed gear.

It's all about that feel. You can take your time trials and statistics and techno-chauvinism, but I will ALWAYS prefer the experience that comes from a purely mechanical connection between human and machine.

When I drive automatic, the car simply doesn't respond like I want it to. When I drive my brother's new fangled DCT, it still doesn't respond like I want it to, despite perhaps producing superior track performance.

There is no substitute for being mentally and physically involved in the workings of your machine.
 
2012-10-22 02:05:24 AM  

Shadow Blasko: One of my favorite things about my RX-8 is that if you wanted an automatic transmission, you got punished for it.

197 hp for the auto, and 238 hp for the manuals.


Interesting. I wonder why Mazda did that.

When the GF and I were shopping for her (she is also a manual enthusiast), 3 different dealers asked her why she wanted a manual and then proceeded to tell us about how getting better gas mileage with a manual was no longer the case.

I found it interesting in the sense we've gone from mindset of manual transmissions being a pleasurable experience of driving to one that is chosen purely for economics.
 
2012-10-22 02:06:06 AM  

DPXFP2: When I drive automatic, the car simply doesn't respond like I want it to. When I drive my brother's new fangled DCT, it still doesn't respond like I want it to, despite perhaps producing superior track performance.

There is no substitute for being mentally and physically involved in the workings of your machine.


A 1000 times this.
 
2012-10-22 02:09:10 AM  

GreatPenguin: This is the silliest flamewar ever.

/doesn't know how to drive stick
//wants to learn, though


It's fun to drive and almost everyone I've taught now drives manuals!
 
2012-10-22 02:09:11 AM  
Ah, two of my great loves: Fark and Jalop. Together as one, like peanut butter and chocolate. Amidst this fog of flinging refuse old and new, I inhale deeply. Technology v. tradition. It's a story as old as time.

This, my friends, is a good day.

Fark on, Jalops. Fark on, Farkers. You are all welcome here.
 
2012-10-22 02:09:29 AM  

SlappyKincaid: Shadow Blasko: One of my favorite things about my RX-8 is that if you wanted an automatic transmission, you got punished for it.

197 hp for the auto, and 238 hp for the manuals.

Interesting. I wonder why Mazda did that.

When the GF and I were shopping for her (she is also a manual enthusiast), 3 different dealers asked her why she wanted a manual and then proceeded to tell us about how getting better gas mileage with a manual was no longer the case.

I found it interesting in the sense we've gone from mindset of manual transmissions being a pleasurable experience of driving to one that is chosen purely for economics.


According to Mazda, the automatic simply could not handle the rpm issues from an engine that redlines at 9.5K on a regular basis without shredding themselves, so the engines for the automatics were tuned down and given a 7.5K redline.
 
2012-10-22 02:09:46 AM  

doglover: they increase your risk of sleeping at the wheel by a lot


I drove for three hours straight on the 5 once in a manual car, and I was able to stay in 5th gear the entire time. I'm pretty sure the transmission in the car isn't going to make you more or less likely to fall asleep while driving.
 
2012-10-22 02:10:07 AM  

peasandcarrots: AAA may well be the most useless program I ever signed up for.


I've gotten my 60 bucks/yr worth every year since I signed on.

I drive really used vehicles and usually have one stall with a free tow home at least once a year and with the 10% off hotel stays, it really adds up, even given the cheap assed shiat-holes I treat myself to while on the road.

If your company pays for your stays and you drive a newer car though, I can see how it'd be a waste of money.

Those folks keep my prices down though, and isnt that what matters most?
 
2012-10-22 02:10:53 AM  
FTA: "For a long, long time, a manual gearbox was the best way to do just that, to be the fastest.

It just isn't the case anymore. Times have changed, and we enthusiasts need to adapt to it as well."


Where has this guy been? Paddle shifters have been around for almost two decades (Ferrari 355), sequential in racing before that (which usually don't require a clutch except for the initial launch).

The racing world has been trying to use "automatics" for decades (see Jim Hall's attempt with the Chaparral in the 70's). Mostly they were too heavy and unreliable, not slower as the author implies.

The absolute fastest way around a race track will someday be having a computer doing all the work. What fun would that be? Might as well just go on a roller-coaster.
 
2012-10-22 02:11:35 AM  

Shadow Blasko:
According to Mazda, the automatic simply could not handle the rpm issues from an engine that redlines at 9.5K on a regular basis without shredding themselves, so the engines for the automatics were tuned down and given a 7.5K redline.


Is the RX-8 a rotary engine? What you're saying sounds like a rotary problem to me.

I know the RX-7 was but I thought they stopped production on that technology.
 
2012-10-22 02:11:50 AM  

themindiswatching: doglover: they increase your risk of sleeping at the wheel by a lot

I drove for three hours straight on the 5 once in a manual car, and I was able to stay in 5th gear the entire time. I'm pretty sure the transmission in the car isn't going to make you more or less likely to fall asleep while driving.


I drove across Nebraska in one gear when I broke the clutch cable on my old 1990 acura integra.

/That car is still running (as far as I know.. up to July of this year) at 650,000 miles. Sold her to a kid on my block when I got my RX-8
 
2012-10-22 02:14:36 AM  
Basically, if my current car has transmission problems too, I'm going to put serious thought into driving only manual cars from now on.

/replaced two transmissions in my Honda Accord before selling it and getting a GTI with DSG transmission.

Shadow Blasko: I drove across Nebraska in one gear when I broke the clutch cable on my old 1990 acura integra.

/That car is still running (as far as I know.. up to July of this year) at 650,000 miles. Sold her to a kid on my block when I got my RX-8


Nice. I almost got the RX-8, but didn't like how the gas mileage is worse than the car I was replacing.
 
2012-10-22 02:15:23 AM  

SlappyKincaid: Shadow Blasko:
According to Mazda, the automatic simply could not handle the rpm issues from an engine that redlines at 9.5K on a regular basis without shredding themselves, so the engines for the automatics were tuned down and given a 7.5K redline.

Is the RX-8 a rotary engine? What you're saying sounds like a rotary problem to me.

I know the RX-7 was but I thought they stopped production on that technology.


Yes it is/was

The RX-8 Renesis is most likely the last rotary that Mazda will make.

The minute amounts of oil that the rotary burns as a nature of its design mean that it will not pass 2015 EU emissions standards, or the 2018 Japanese standards, so there will be no market for it.

They are still widely used in small aircraft and heavily used in off road truck racing, but as a power plant for a production vehicle... they are pretty much done.

The last RX-8 was made for the Japan market with a Hydrogen burning rotary, but the horsepower was only 1/2 what the gasoline version made, so it failed pretty miserably.
 
2012-10-22 02:16:40 AM  
I prefer a manual.

If you prefer an auto, good for you, wish manufacturers would make both available for all interesting vehicles.
 
2012-10-22 02:18:15 AM  

themindiswatching: Basically, if my current car has transmission problems too, I'm going to put serious thought into driving only manual cars from now on.

/replaced two transmissions in my Honda Accord before selling it and getting a GTI with DSG transmission.



I've had both automatics and manuals and I've never had a single problem with a manual transmission... except for a blown clutch on one which was completely my own jackass fault.
 
2012-10-22 02:20:07 AM  

gunther_bumpass: Well the limp-wristed froot brigade showed up for this in force, didn't they?


Yeah no kidding. They think shifting a gear is some kind of macho rite of passage. Some people have a lot of time on their hands. While driving.
 
2012-10-22 02:21:23 AM  

SlappyKincaid: I've had both automatics and manuals and I've never had a single problem with a manual transmission... except for a blown clutch on one which was completely my own jackass fault.


Yeah, clutches are definitely way less expensive to replace than entire transmissions. The DSG in my car needs fluid changes every 40k miles, but from what I've read they're pretty much bulletproof.
 
2012-10-22 02:21:29 AM  
I have an automatic transmission. I also don't start my car by turning a crank because we have a device that does that for us so we don't have to do it ourselves anymore.

SCIENCE!
 
2012-10-22 02:22:08 AM  

themindiswatching: doglover: they increase your risk of sleeping at the wheel by a lot

I drove for three hours straight on the 5 once in a manual car, and I was able to stay in 5th gear the entire time. I'm pretty sure the transmission in the car isn't going to make you more or less likely to fall asleep while driving.


3 hours straight in 5th?

Where were you? We have these things called hills...
 
2012-10-22 02:23:00 AM  
One thing that automatic has over manual is that if your wrists are farked up from multiple bouts of tendinitis, you can still drive relatively comfortably.

As for my own personal preference... is the car in good shape, get decent MPG, and get me where I need to go with minimal bother? Then I wouldn't care if it was auto or stick.

/sticking to auto, though
//yeah, my wrists do suck
 
2012-10-22 02:26:19 AM  

Shadow Blasko:

Yes it is/was

The RX-8 Renesis is most likely the last rotary that Mazda will make.

The minute amounts of oil that the rotary burns as a nature of its design mean that it will not pass 2015 EU emissions standards, or the 2018 Japanese standards, so there will be no market for it.

They are still widely used in small aircraft and heavily used in off road truck racing, but as a power plant for a production vehicle... they are pretty much done.

The last RX-8 was made for the Japan market with a Hydrogen burning rotary, but the horsepower was only 1/2 what the gasoline version made, so it failed pretty miserably.



Wankel had an excellent concept (great power for such a compact design) but I just don't think that engine is built to last. They're just not sealed right. They never got that right.

It's a shame really. I liked the RX-7 and I know little about the RX-8 other than it's aesthetically pleasing to me.
 
2012-10-22 02:26:23 AM  

STRYPERSWINE: I have an automatic transmission. I also don't start my car by turning a crank because we have a device that does that for us so we don't have to do it ourselves anymore.

SCIENCE!


Kill yourself now with strychnine and save $100,000s in food, clothing, taxes, etc! You'll be absolutely rich!

SCIENCE!
 
2012-10-22 02:27:40 AM  

doglover: themindiswatching: doglover: they increase your risk of sleeping at the wheel by a lot

I drove for three hours straight on the 5 once in a manual car, and I was able to stay in 5th gear the entire time. I'm pretty sure the transmission in the car isn't going to make you more or less likely to fall asleep while driving.

3 hours straight in 5th?

Where were you? We have these things called hills...


Sounds like the Central Valley. There's no reason to stop between the GrapeVine and Los Banos, unless you really need to pick up hitchhikers in Coalinga
 
2012-10-22 02:28:19 AM  

doglover: Where were you? We have these things called hills...


California's Central Valley is pretty much Kansas.
 
2012-10-22 02:28:49 AM  
If I may be so bold, allow me a few seconds for an alternate opinion.

Look at these:

image.off-roadweb.com

Know what those are? Those are the Clutch Packs out of an automatic transmission. They are designed to sacrifice themselves in order for an automatic transmission to work. And on modern cars with gentle shifting automatics, this is accomplished by allowing these packs to slip more and tear apart more friction material each time.

In a Manual Transmission that is driven properly, the only two real maintenance items that you will incur over time are a worn clutch plate, and a gear oil change for the transmission. The oil change is of course no different than an engine oil change, and when the clutch on a manual wears out, all one needs to do is simply drop the trans out, install a new clutch and flywheel (if not able to resurface), and then just replace the transmission. TA DA! that's it!

Now when an automatic wears out because the clutch material as you can see above that is in it breaks down, you have to actually REBUILD the entire damn thing! That also is not counting the continual maintenance of replacing the transmission filter. Oh, and God forbid the transmission overheats because of towing or some other inadequate cooling issue, you've just destroyed the entire thing. Overheating isn't any concern at all in a manual.

Busting out a couple of quarters to play Devil's Advocate here, what if the motivation by car manufacturers to force more consumers into purchasing automatic transmissions is simply another form of "Planned Obsolescence" to help vehicles break down quicker, and drive up dealer revenues by extra maintenance service costs that a consumer has to bear when purchasing a vehicle?

Certainly vehicles today are more "reliable" for someone who isn't mechanically inclined, but between Automatic Transmission services, Diesel exhaust fluids, and even occasionally having to visit a dealer to reset a check engine light for a loose gas cap or to program a new key, they sure as hell are getting more expensive to operate...
 
2012-10-22 02:29:17 AM  

themindiswatching: .

Yeah, clutches are definitely way less expensive to replace than entire transmissions. The DSG in my car needs fluid changes every 40k miles, but from what I've read they're pretty much bulletproof.


Indeed. I think that clutch cost me like $500-700 to replace. It was on a 2002 camaro and I drove that thing like an idiot. Since then I've never had a clutch go out on me or even come close and I like sporty cars and really pushing it. Though I did have an SUV in stick for a while. That was a different world entirely.
 
2012-10-22 02:30:12 AM  
Subby is a car hipster.
 
2012-10-22 02:30:53 AM  

katfairy: One thing that automatic has over manual is that if your wrists are farked up from multiple bouts of tendinitis, you can still drive relatively comfortably.

As for my own personal preference... is the car in good shape, get decent MPG, and get me where I need to go with minimal bother? Then I wouldn't care if it was auto or stick.

/sticking to auto, though
//yeah, my wrists do suck


Legit concern.

If I couldn't work the clutch, I'd drive auto.

Automatic tranny is like a fleshlight. It gets the job done, but it's not as fun.
 
2012-10-22 02:31:43 AM  
I'm 28 and have driven a manual on 4 different cars for about 10 of those 12 years I've had my license. I really enjoy driving a stick even though I never think about whether I'm shifting or not. It just becomes second nature.

That being said, I have never thought people who drive autos are inferior.
That's ridiculous. Most people in America want to get from point A to point B as easily as possible, and that's perfectly reasonable.

I do, however think everyone who has access to a manual should be forced to learn how to drive one.
If only for emergency situations or DD purposes.

It's like knowing how to tie a freaking knot for God's sake.
 
2012-10-22 02:31:50 AM  

SlappyKincaid: Shadow Blasko:

Yes it is/was

The RX-8 Renesis is most likely the last rotary that Mazda will make.

The minute amounts of oil that the rotary burns as a nature of its design mean that it will not pass 2015 EU emissions standards, or the 2018 Japanese standards, so there will be no market for it.

They are still widely used in small aircraft and heavily used in off road truck racing, but as a power plant for a production vehicle... they are pretty much done.

The last RX-8 was made for the Japan market with a Hydrogen burning rotary, but the horsepower was only 1/2 what the gasoline version made, so it failed pretty miserably.


Wankel had an excellent concept (great power for such a compact design) but I just don't think that engine is built to last. They're just not sealed right. They never got that right.

It's a shame really. I liked the RX-7 and I know little about the RX-8 other than it's aesthetically pleasing to me.


I've got 131,000 miles on mine, and she still pulls great. No problems. (you know, aside from that mileage thing) but the price was right, so I can't complain.

The Renesis Rotary (Next gen from the RX-7) fixed the apex seal issues, and they seem to last pretty well.

It is a boon to rotary enthusiasts that they have a reputation (previously earned, but not so much anymore) for failing early, as you can buy a good RX-8 with 50k miles on it for less than 8 grand now.
 
2012-10-22 02:31:50 AM  
Girl driver here, and you can have my manny tranny when you pry it from my cold, dead hands...
 
2012-10-22 02:31:59 AM  
I drive a 1990 Chevy G20 van. There are no manual transmissions for those big sin wagons but I bet I'd hit 100mph before that limp dick. There's something about a big block V8 that'll make you go like a raped ape when you stomped on the gas.
 
2012-10-22 02:32:59 AM  
I wonder if people had this much trouble letting go of crank starters?
 
2012-10-22 02:34:47 AM  

Hand Banana: I wonder if people had this much trouble letting go of crank starters?


Why do people keep comparing the two?
 
2012-10-22 02:35:04 AM  

fickle floridian: This article isn't about "automatics". It's about the new generation of electronic, dual-clutch, high-performance transmissions that happen to be paddle-shifted because the driver can't shift them anywhere near as fast as the computer. If all you've driven are manual transmission or traditional automatics (some even with paddle shifters) then you really have no idea what's going on in the modern performance car. There's a reason Ferrari doesn't offer manual transmission on the 458, and the only reason other sports car makers still have manual is to assuage traditional buyers.

From the article: "Take a current Nissan GT-R to a race track and drive it as fast you can. Then tell me it would be better with a manual gearbox. It just wouldn't be. Your corner speeds will be slower, your straight-line speeds will be slower, and your lap times will be slower. If you drive a GT-R on track and don't feel engaged, well, then you just aren't going fast enough."

Welcome to the 21st century.


Exactly. These clutch guys sound like those moronic audiophiles who only listen to vinyl.
 
2012-10-22 02:36:19 AM  
I learned to drive stick on an old dump truck with, like, 20 something gears. I prefer an auto as I have a hard time not revving the nuts off of it and speeding if it's a manual. All the supposed MPG gains are not a factor for this lead foot.
 
2012-10-22 02:36:40 AM  
I also don't churn my own butter. Progress, ftw.
 
2012-10-22 02:37:07 AM  
FTA: The point of driving a car quickly, either on a race track or a road, is to make it from the start to finish as fast as humanly possible.

No. The point of driving in a race is to make it from the start to finish as fast as humanly possible. The point of driving on the road is to go somewhere and hopefully have fun. The point of driving on a track when you're not racing is to not go somewhere and hopefully have fun. The latter two can be accomplished with an automatic, a manual, or a flappy-paddle (which really amounts to a semi-auto transmission). If having fun means you just want to go, get an auto. If it means you want to feel like you're doing something, get a manual. If it means you want to feel like you're on a racetrack all the time, get a life.
 
2012-10-22 02:37:16 AM  

Shadow Blasko:

I've got 131,000 miles on mine, and she still pulls great. No problems. (you know, aside from that mileage thing) but the price was right, so I can't complain.

The Renesis Rotary (Next gen from the RX-7) fixed the apex seal issues, and they seem to last pretty well.

It is a boon to rotary enthusiasts that they have a reputation (previously earned, but not so much anymore) for failing early, as you can buy a good RX-8 with 50k miles on it for less than 8 grand now.



That's good to know. I stand corrected. And for $8K that seems like a steal for the power! Do they still make them? Convertible?
 
2012-10-22 02:39:48 AM  
My Pontiac has a 4-speed automatic transmission and a supercharger. Today, two motorcycles beat me all to hell off the line. They were worthy. Most other cars out there aren't ;)
 
2012-10-22 02:39:49 AM  

whidbey: Ogre840: Art of Manliness: Every Man Should Know How to Drive Stick

Oh so it's a manly thing now.

Wow, the ideologies people come up with to ritualize such anachronistic technology.


Drive whatever you want. I hate automatics. I hate pretty much everything about them. I hate the technology of the toque converter. The newer electronic transmissions are less terrible efficiency wise but the standard toque converter in an automatic transmission amounts to up to 15% HP loss and commensurate loss in fuel economy as well as thermal degrade of materials due to the friction. Practically, in terms of energy efficiency, standard automatic transmissions are a loser. I could see past that if they actually offered something in terms of reliability or lifespan to the vehicle, instead they do the exact opposite. I've fixed a 45 y/o manual gear box with a pipe wrench and a hammer on the side of the road. I wouldn't even bother trying to fix an automatic, just buy a new one.

Automatic transmissions are useful to some people and in some very limited circumstances they can be beneficial, but to call manual transmissions outmoded is much the same as calling steering wheels and rear-view mirrors outmoded. They're relatively simple applications of technology that could be replaced by grossly over complex applications of technology to serve the same purpose, although no where near as efficiently or reliably.

Oh, and flappy pedals makes it feel like you're driving a go-cart or playing a video game. It doesn't feel like driving, it feels like playing a rather silly driving sim. And it doesn't matter how fast you're going.
 
2012-10-22 02:41:04 AM  
Let me tell you what I'm looking for in a farking car: Four farking wheels that roll when I put the car in drive and push the gas pedal. This does NOT require a decades-outdated manual transmission.
 
2012-10-22 02:41:51 AM  

carnifex2005:

Exactly. These clutch guys sound like those moronic audiophiles who only listen to vinyl.


I don't think it's a snob thing really... well maybe for some. I just enjoy the feedback a manual transmission gives me. It's just fun to drive and, I think, keeps you very engaged with the driving experience.

Everybody has their preference and that's cool. Most of my friends drive automatics and I don't look down on them or anything. They do their thing and I do mine.

I just wish there were more vehicle options for manuals.
 
2012-10-22 02:42:05 AM  
You know, people talk, but it's weird to really think about -- the whole Gawker network has turned into sensationalist garbage.
 
2012-10-22 02:42:51 AM  

SlappyKincaid: Shadow Blasko:

I've got 131,000 miles on mine, and she still pulls great. No problems. (you know, aside from that mileage thing) but the price was right, so I can't complain.

The Renesis Rotary (Next gen from the RX-7) fixed the apex seal issues, and they seem to last pretty well.

It is a boon to rotary enthusiasts that they have a reputation (previously earned, but not so much anymore) for failing early, as you can buy a good RX-8 with 50k miles on it for less than 8 grand now.


That's good to know. I stand corrected. And for $8K that seems like a steal for the power! Do they still make them? Convertible?


The last RX-8's sold in the states was the 2011 model. There is no convertible.

Although, if you trust him.. this will help you make up your mind. (This also happens to be the same model and year as mine, but not right hand drive) Top Gear on the RX-8

Jeremy's only complaint at the end was the fact that it was skittish on wet roads... well.. yeah.. after he burned all the tread off the tires.
 
2012-10-22 02:43:03 AM  
I drive 90% in the city and 100% in either city or NJ highway/suburban areas that are often decently high traffic, so no, I'm gonna go ahead and say that manual is objectively terrible for me.

As always, I find this whole "everyone should use what I use and if they don't they're a bad person" thing tiring. It's just as tiring with Mac vs. PC or Xbox vs. Wii vs. Playstation as it is here. Shut the fark up and just use what you enjoy and quit bothering other people about it. You use manual? Wonderful. You use automatic? Great. Use what you prefer and what works best. But unless other people switching to what you use will cure cancer or some shiat, I really don't give a damn if you think that what I prefer is inferior. That's why I'm using it and you're not.
 
2012-10-22 02:44:15 AM  
Other useful technologies for drivers who prefer to drive a stick:

Personal computer:
www.aerojockey.com

Pen:
www.aerojockey.com

IPod:
www.aerojockey.com

Laser pointer:
www.aerojockey.com
 
2012-10-22 02:44:22 AM  

7FARK7: Let me tell you what I'm looking for in a farking car: Four farking wheels that roll when I put the car in drive and push the gas pedal. This does NOT require a decades-outdated manual transmission.


I hear you. The only reason I have a car in the first place is so that I can go some place and then come home.

The fact that my current car is fun to drive was an accident ;)
 
2012-10-22 02:44:34 AM  

SpinStopper: My Pontiac has a 4-speed automatic transmission and a supercharger. Today, two motorcycles beat me all to hell off the line. They were worthy. Most other cars out there aren't ;)


Your Pontiac wouldn't be able to take a motorcycle of any real caliber. The power to weight on a bike makes it faster than pretty any car on the road. I ride bikes and you'd be amazed at how fast you can get to in seconds.

I've had friends with very power Italian sports cars that just can't keep up when we used to go and play... before we got all old and serious. :)
 
2012-10-22 02:45:24 AM  
Oh for Fark's sake, just drive what you prefer and that which is best suited to your style of driving.
 
2012-10-22 02:46:54 AM  

Shadow Blasko:

The last RX-8's sold in the states was the 2011 model. There is no convertible.

Although, if you trust him.. this will help you make up your mind. (This also happens to be the same model and year as mine, but not right hand drive) Top Gear on the RX-8

Jeremy's only complaint at the end was the fact that it was skittish on wet roads... well.. yeah.. after he burned all the tread off the tires.


Cool, I'll look into that. I do trust Top Gear. I think their reviews are rather honest. As someone who has tracked every vehicle he as ever owned (except an SUV), I find their commentary direct and very good.

Thanks for the link.
 
2012-10-22 02:47:54 AM  

Hand Banana: I wonder if people had this much trouble letting go of crank starters?


Funny you mention that. I once met a guy who claimed to be an ex-engineer for General Motors. He asked me if I knew the reasons behind the invention of the electric starter. I said I did, because of the son of Cadillac's CEO who died from an would he received when the crank stuck to the shaft and flew around and hit him in the jaw on a winter morning. He said that was a true story, but not the real reason why. Car manufactures are norotrious for avoiding recalls that have cost people their lives, so it's not like they were being noble in the first place.

Before the electric starter, vehicles were notoriously difficult for the average person to start. You'd have to flip switches to engage your electrical circuit for the dyno, open the valve for the fuel supply, etc. It was difficult because people were stupid. Cadillac knew as well as others that there are more stupid people willing to part with disposable income than there are smart people. So if they could find a way to simplify the starting and operation of an automobile, they could sell more cars by opening up sales to segments of dumb people who otherwise couldn't/wouldn't have bought one previously. So it goes with automatic spark adjustment, electric choke, and of course automatic transmissions.

If you can understand that, then you can understand how the automotive industry operates, and why it always has been that way. But more importantly, what's the big demographic as well that hates stick shifts to the point where they refuse to learn how to operate them?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-22 02:49:22 AM  

SlappyKincaid: SpinStopper: My Pontiac has a 4-speed automatic transmission and a supercharger. Today, two motorcycles beat me all to hell off the line. They were worthy. Most other cars out there aren't ;)

Your Pontiac wouldn't be able to take a motorcycle of any real caliber. The power to weight on a bike makes it faster than pretty any car on the road. I ride bikes and you'd be amazed at how fast you can get to in seconds.

I've had friends with very power Italian sports cars that just can't keep up when we used to go and play... before we got all old and serious. :)


I agree completely. I just thought it was cool to have an excuse to hear the high pitched whine of the supercharger while the to bikes flew right past me ;)
 
2012-10-22 02:50:28 AM  
www.atariage.com
 
2012-10-22 02:50:45 AM  

SpinStopper:

I agree completely. I just thought it was cool to have an excuse to hear the high pitched whine of the supercharger while the to bikes flew right past me ;)


lol fair enough!
 
2012-10-22 02:52:23 AM  
Is this a shifter car? I cannot drive a shifter car, alright, so we got a little situation here. I can't drive these kinda cars! What the fark is goin' on! You think that's funny? Would you like to know, smartass? Would you like to know why I can't drive this kinda car? I'll tell you why, I'm used to luxury cars. Have you ever heard of a luxury car? You know what luxury means? Ever heard of Cadillac, Cadillac Eldorado? That's what I drive. I drive cars that shift themselves.
 
2012-10-22 02:52:55 AM  

Hand Banana: I wonder if people had this much trouble letting go of crank starters?


Crank starters caused injuries. Electric starter motors were not a radical increase in complexity, and they didn't affect the way the car was driven.

Automatic transmissions are unnecessary complexity in the system. They are there for convenience only. They do not inherently improve safety or performance. Some people prefer the convenience to simplicity. Others prefer the mechanical simplicity to the convenience.
 
2012-10-22 02:54:41 AM  

Soupysales: Is this a shifter car? I cannot drive a shifter car, alright, so we got a little situation here. I can't drive these kinda cars! What the fark is goin' on! You think that's funny? Would you like to know, smartass? Would you like to know why I can't drive this kinda car? I'll tell you why, I'm used to luxury cars. Have you ever heard of a luxury car? You know what luxury means? Ever heard of Cadillac, Cadillac Eldorado? That's what I drive. I drive cars that shift themselves.


Billy Brown ftw!
 
2012-10-22 02:54:41 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Crank starters caused injuries. Electric starter motors were not a radical increase in complexity, and they didn't affect the way the car was driven.

Automatic transmissions are unnecessary complexity in the system. They are there for convenience only. They do not inherently improve safety or performance. Some people prefer the convenience to simplicity. Others prefer the mechanical simplicity to the convenience.


Automatic transmissions allow elderly drivers to mow down farmers' markets.
 
2012-10-22 02:58:01 AM  

Soupysales: Is this a shifter car? I cannot drive a shifter car, alright, so we got a little situation here. I can't drive these kinda cars! What the fark is goin' on! You think that's funny? Would you like to know, smartass? Would you like to know why I can't drive this kinda car? I'll tell you why, I'm used to luxury cars. Have you ever heard of a luxury car? You know what luxury means? Ever heard of Cadillac, Cadillac Eldorado? That's what I drive. I drive cars that shift themselves.


I love that flick inspite of it's weirdness. Mayve it's because it's the best Christina Ricci has ever looked.

scribereblog.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-22 03:00:50 AM  
In Deutschland everymann has to learn manuell and drives manuell. Jawohl.
 
2012-10-22 03:01:53 AM  

Verlorenes Metallgeld: In Deutschland everymann has to learn manuell and drives manuell. Jawohl.


Pfft. You didn't capitalize your nouns.
 
2012-10-22 03:02:26 AM  

lokidecat: When my manual went and I had to replace my clutch, it cost me a weekend a few hundred bucks (and a case of beer.)
When my automatic went, it cost me $3100 to get replaced. Stupid mysterious piston/channel-driven piles of crap.

I have my preference...


Exactly....


Lenny_da_Hog: Automatic transmissions are unnecessary complexity in the system. They are there for convenience only. They do not inherently improve safety or performance. Some people prefer the convenience to simplicity. Others prefer the mechanical simplicity to the convenience.


I have nothing further to add, here, everything has already been stated by others. I prefer simpler, more cost-effective things.
 
2012-10-22 03:04:40 AM  

Claude Ballse: I love that flick inspite of it's weirdness. Mayve it's because it's the best Christina Ricci has ever looked.


She was adorable in that role, but I think I might prefer her Black Snake Moan incarnation:
i.ebayimg.com
 
2012-10-22 03:04:59 AM  

Chariset: Manual transmission is so much more fun, but I'd rather have automatic in the city.

(Though I hate feeling my engine 'argue' with me when I tell it to accelerate)


My 2012 Outback has a CVT. The car is *always* in the right gear. They give you a flappy paddle shifter, but I have yet to improve on either fuel economy or performance trying to outsmart the computer.

And considering that most of my miles are ariubd the Beltway in DC, if I was still driving a stick shift, I'd be on the shoulder with a deer rifle by now.
 
2012-10-22 03:05:41 AM  
Wow, I had no idea the "Manual vs Automatic" split could be such troll fodder. I'll have to remember that. File it with:

Chicago vs New York pizza
Student loans
Tipping
Beer snobs
 
2012-10-22 03:09:08 AM  

dickfreckle: Shadow Blasko: I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one.

Agreed, but a friend of mine made an interesting point. "I want my son to learn to drive a manual, but where the hell do I find one? Unless you have a friend's manual you can borrow for an afternoon, teaching kids how to drive one is going to be a hassle. Not impossible, but a hassle when you and your wife's cars are both automatics. This is true in America, at least. In Europe and many other places, the 11 year-old paper boy already knows how to drive a stick.

I learned from a friend in high school, but this was in the early 90s when manuals were still somewhat common.

CSB alert: About a year ago I was out with some friends, and this one girl got too drunk to drive. So I offered, having a friend follow to take me back. She asked if I could drive a stick. When I got to the vehicle, I was honestly shocked that it was a brand new Saturn Vue, or similar small SUV/crossover whatever. When I smiled and complimented her for driving a stick she said, "I had to wait three weeks to get one with a manual. I farking hate automatics."

As you can presume, I fell in love right on the spot. We dated for a few months.


Let me guess, the relationship stalled out after a series of missteps.
 
2012-10-22 03:11:03 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Aw, look... the people who are most likely overcompensating for some other shortcoming are coming out to talk about how they need a big stick in their hand to feel manly.

Manuals are for alright for racing, I guess. Otherwise, they're pointless.


No.

Have you looked at the costs for rebuilding a slushbox? My mother's car had to have it rebuilt recently. $4,000. My cousin bought an expensive luxury car and he spent $3,000 for an extended warranty because a transmission rebuild is $14,000.

I paid just over $15,000 for my car, new.

I can replace my clutch for about $500 and 10-12 hours of labor. If I had a slushbox in my model, I'd be looking at about $4,000 for a rebuild.

I could give fark all about lap times and the quarter mile. I don't race. I drive a stick because it's easy and cheap to repair. That's it.

Further, let me know when a flappy paddle or ordinary slushbox can look a few hundred yards up the road and shift to deal with upcoming road conditions.

The tinfoil hat part of me thinks that car manufacturers are pushing the slushbox because fixing one is never a DIY proposition and a rebuild means a fat profit to a dealership.

There's no machismo, either. I'll happily teach anyone how to drive a stick in my car. A clutch is easy. I can teach anyone to drive one in under an hour. Buy me a six pack and we'll call it even.
 
2012-10-22 03:14:57 AM  

Shadow Blasko: weave: Luthien's Tempest: Of course, I've never learned to change a tire, either

1-800-AAA-HELP

You're welcome

September 17th, 1999. 19:30 A HOT sticky friday night.
Driver is 9 mos pregnant. Blown tire, just north of I-275 on I-71 in Cincinnati. (Suburban Area)
(I mention she was 9 mos pregnant because that is why she did not change her own tire)

AAA Response time. 3.5 HOURS

You go ahead and call AAA if you wanna. The rest of us have stuff to do, places to go.

Last fall I broke a lug nut lock changing a tire on my RX-8. The nearest AAA center to me is less than 5 miles. The one they dispatched was over 25 miles away. It took over 2 hours for them to dispatch the wrong truck (I told them it would take a flatbed, they didn't believe me, so they had to dispatch ANOTHER truck from another location) and it was 7 hours before my car was at a shop... which was less than 4 miles away.

Screw AAA


I sort of suspect that is precisely why Subaru offers their own roadside assistance. Everything they make (save one model) is all wheel drive, and thus needs a flatbed.
 
2012-10-22 03:15:17 AM  

TheTurtle: OK, try this simple test: climb a 20-degree hill in the snow.

In summer tires.

Before 'traction control.'

I have a friend who runs a towing company; he'll collect your shiat at the bottom of the hill while I laugh at you from the top in my 4-speed-equipped '68 Volvo, because I could put that car in 3rd gear and crawl up with the absolute minimum torque necessary. Automatics don't understand the concept of "let's put almost no power on the ground." You don't always want to lay down rubber.


I've done it in my automatic a few tikes when Seattle has been hit with nasty winter storms. Automatics DO have those lower gears, you know, and you can control your speed and torque on ice almost as well as you can with a manual.

Of course, almost no one who drives and auto actually knows what the 2 and the 1 positions are for, or that the little overdrive disable button on the gear shift basically forces a downshift when you want more power for a hill or for passing.
 
2012-10-22 03:17:14 AM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: Automatic transmission is to driving as masturbation is to sex


Wait, I thought automatics didn't involve playing with your stick.
 
2012-10-22 03:18:18 AM  

fusillade762: Wow, I had no idea the "Manual vs Automatic" split could be such troll fodder. I'll have to remember that. File it with:

Chicago vs New York pizza
Student loans
Tipping
Beer snobs


NAILED IT
 
2012-10-22 03:22:15 AM  
So I'm assuming that "slushbox" is the automotive equivalent of "crotchfruit"? A nice pithy term that encapsulates your disdain? Even though it generally comes with a four paragraph rant about why. I get it. "I can control mine, so you should damn well control yours."
 
2012-10-22 03:24:19 AM  
Last year got my first automatic in years and love it. Cause in Germany you spend 90% of the fookin time stuck in bumper to bumper stop-n-go.
 
2012-10-22 03:32:01 AM  
I don't care what you guys drive, the bus I catch is big enough for me not to care.
 
2012-10-22 03:39:50 AM  
i53.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-22 03:42:04 AM  

carnifex2005: fickle floridian: This article isn't about "automatics". It's about the new generation of electronic, dual-clutch, high-performance transmissions that happen to be paddle-shifted because the driver can't shift them anywhere near as fast as the computer. If all you've driven are manual transmission or traditional automatics (some even with paddle shifters) then you really have no idea what's going on in the modern performance car. There's a reason Ferrari doesn't offer manual transmission on the 458, and the only reason other sports car makers still have manual is to assuage traditional buyers.

From the article: "Take a current Nissan GT-R to a race track and drive it as fast you can. Then tell me it would be better with a manual gearbox. It just wouldn't be. Your corner speeds will be slower, your straight-line speeds will be slower, and your lap times will be slower. If you drive a GT-R on track and don't feel engaged, well, then you just aren't going fast enough."

Welcome to the 21st century.

Exactly. These clutch guys sound like those moronic audiophiles who only listen to vinyl.


Grrr.

I'm an audiophile with a turntable and I drive a clutch.

I use a turntable because about 50% of the music recorded before the CD has not been transferred to digital. I love old music and pick up damned cheap records at junk stores. Music I can't get on any other format. Yes, I buy used CDs, too. In terms of sound quality, hi-rez digital is the best. I have about 400 recordings on SACD and DVD-A. I'd buy everything in those if I could. Vinyl is simply good enough to enjoy otherwise unavailable music.

I drive a clutch because I'm a DIY'er and a cheapass. I can replace a clutch for about $500 and several hours of labor. I cannot DIY a slushbox rebuild, which runs around $3,000-$5,000. Fark everything about that.
 
2012-10-22 03:44:26 AM  
Honda came out with the NC700. You can get it with a manual clutch, or with a paddle shifter (actually little switches activated with fingers on your left hand) which has the option to go full auto transmission. My left foot would go insane. But it does have ABS.
www.ridethewildwind.co.uk
 
2012-10-22 03:45:59 AM  
A modern automatic is just fine with me. Unless you are a truly skilled driver the savings in fuel or power delivery are non-existent.

The only reason to drive a manual anymore is for fun and feel. And it stops being fun after about the third week of stop and go traffic if you live in a more urban area.



It seems that people can find just about anything to be snobbish about.
 
2012-10-22 03:50:27 AM  
Seeing that I currently race this:
fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net
(yes this was at an autox event and not a track day, but whatever)

And that I occasionally race these:
fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net

as well as a Lambo Gallardo, Audi R8, Porsche 996 (personal favorite) and a Corvette Z6, I can say that the flappy paddle is the way to go. But it has to be the real flappy paddle. Not the tiptronic (or whatever it's callled) flappy paddle. A real flappy paddle allows you to drop a gear when another automatic wouldn't let you do it for fear of hurting the car. The paddle shift in the Ferrari is astonishingly good. But when it comes time to drive to the store, and back in to a parking spot, they are a serious irritation. In a race to reverse in a parking spot, a traditional manual will beat the flappy paddle all day. Though I should state that the 996 has a traditional manual and it's still the car I pull the fastest lap times in. It's just that good. A flappy paddle would maybe make it marginally better.

So how about you just buy the car/gearbox that best suits your needs, and we all just shut up and let the other person drive whatever they want? Sound good to everyone?

Oh, and for God's sake everyone, learn to at least change a tire on your own. It's a necessary life-skill.
 
2012-10-22 03:55:48 AM  
xiaodown

The point of the manual transmission is being able to control the torque output of the engine by selecting which gear you're in, not to have something to do with your hand other than scratch your balls.


And the hand crank to start your engine was there to build up manliness -- provided you avoided breaking your arm when it fired backwards.

I enjoyed the manual trans -- until I drove one all day long as a courier and discovered the joy of grinding gears when I got tired, in a hurry and had to get out of some clowns way. Later, I discovered the joy of having to replace the clutch plate. Even more later I found out my 5 speed could drop a gear, making it a two speed.

Still, it was fun.

But, so were the floor starter and high beam buttons. I still miss the manual vent controls. I also miss the huge quadrajet 4 barrel carb I had on my 1967 GTO -- with a custom air filter (chrome) bolted on top that only kept things the size of VW's from being sucked in.

I couldn't afford the gas today. Plus Pontiac dropped a plastic timing gear in the massive V-8 that shredded at around 60,000 miles. Not broke. Shredded. Turned into powder. Which then fell into the oil pan, to be sucked up and sprayed all through the engine, where it melted and clogged every oil port possible.

The replacement gear? Steel.

Planned obsolescence? Now why would Pontiac do that?

I drove a series of small trucks, like the Isuzu P'up and a Ford Courier and had fun with their standard transmissions. The Isuzu was surprisingly durable. The Courier was not.

The GTO had a 'slap stick' racing shift on the floor for it's automatic trans. Push a tab and a lock out opened up so you could shift by hand without ramming the thing in reverse. That was kinda thoughtful.

I miss wing windows also. I found those real useful -- except when the occasional bumblebee got scooped up and fired into my jacket. They came out with little triangular screens you could fit on the window later.

I also recall the useful chrome rain shields over the side windows of cars and the bigger, chrome sun shield that stuck out over the windshield.

Then again, I recall wheel well covers, which I thought sucked.

Now, I recall ball joints wearing out nearly as soon as you drove your car off the lot. Expensive to fix. Someone made them sealed, with lub inside. Later, some cool dude developed a way to drill into the casing and install grease ports. Cost about $4.00 to have it done. Then you used a grease gun to pump in fresh grease periodically, which forced out the old, which had accumulated sand from the roads.
I haven't come across a car or truck with ball joint problems in years.

My car, a Buick, has over 150,000 miles on it. I change the oil every 10,000 miles, since I use a synthetic. I add a/c gas once a year, since the damn thing has a pinhole leak I can't find and the shops want an arm and a leg to find it for me.

My brother, a mechanic, owned it before me. He kept it up. When a van was given to him, he discovered the insurance coverage for his truck, the van, his daughter's car and this car was too high. So, he sold it to me.

The only problem I've had with it was the damn battery. Those squirrelly cables on cables things. Never made good contact, so I cut the ends off, bolted them all together, put on replacement heads and it's been just fine.

With most of my other cars, I spent a lot of time keeping junk yards in business, buying parts. I kept a few shops busy replacing engines, rebuilding them and fixing transmissions.
I can't even tune up this car myself. It's got a computer chip in it. However, I don't have to constantly replace fluids, parts and wonder if the darn thing will start. Plus, it's no longer 'common' to buy a used car that burns oil.

And, the timing pulley will not turn into powder at 60,000 miles. There's no 'gear' and no 'chain'. Just a ridged belt.

Times have changed and, mostly, for the better.

BTW. I recall when they switched from standard brakes and steering, to power. I also recall when disk brakes appeared. Much better.
 
2012-10-22 04:00:46 AM  
I kind of think it's just a matter of where you're driving to ask the question of "fun"

Driving around town stopping at traffic lights / stop signs, manual is kind of a pain in the ass (and especially if you're in an area with a lot of hills... I don't know how you could drive around San Francisco in a manual without being some sort of masochist)

However, I drove an ex gf's manual car from SF to LA, and I have to admit that it was much more fun than doing the same drive in an automatic. I'm sure it's partly just due to the increased activity involved, but I do agree that there's something about having to pay attention to the car that makes it more enjoyable on the highway.
 
2012-10-22 04:01:29 AM  

WhiskeyBoy: Oh, and for God's sake everyone, learn to at least change a tire on your own. It's a necessary life-skill.


static.ddmcdn.com
 
2012-10-22 04:12:12 AM  

themindiswatching: Voiceofreason01: What most of you people do on your commute isn't "driving"

[streetsblog.net image 485x323]

/GIS for "distracted driving"


Hard to drive like that in Boston...

you need a finger free.
 
2012-10-22 04:16:26 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: WhiskeyBoy: Oh, and for God's sake everyone, learn to at least change a tire on your own. It's a necessary life-skill.

[static.ddmcdn.com image 400x300]


[Error. No Signal]

[Battery Life Remaining: 2%]

I'll learn how to do things, you learn how to depend on twitchy tech.
 
2012-10-22 04:17:34 AM  
Oh, and, anyone been to NZ lately?

I was flummoxed by my shiny rental car there back in the early 90's...until I realized that extra knob on the dashboard was a choke...
 
2012-10-22 04:19:00 AM  
Manual transmissions hold no advantage over automatics in performance. Automatics, by and large, now perform as well or better. Manuals may, for now, be cheaper. As with all dwindling items of outdated technology that mainly have 'purist' appeal, and serve no real valid purpose, that may change over time.

That said, some people have fun with them. I'm all fine with that. If you have fun driving, then have fun with a manual. Your definition of the 'pure' driving experience has no meaning beyond you. A stick shift makes you feel connected? Good for you. My rear end in the seat makes me feel just as connected, but that's just me.
 
2012-10-22 04:25:09 AM  

Shadow Blasko: StoPPeRmobile: WhiskeyBoy: Oh, and for God's sake everyone, learn to at least change a tire on your own. It's a necessary life-skill.

[static.ddmcdn.com image 400x300]

[Error. No Signal]

[Battery Life Remaining: 2%]

I'll learn how to do things, you learn how to depend on twitchy tech.


If you can't indentify where your spare tire is, and knowledge of how to change it, you shouldn't pass your drivers permit test.
 
2012-10-22 04:26:26 AM  

incrdbil: Manual transmissions hold no advantage over automatics in performance.


Please see my above post on the RX-8, and get your lying head out of your ass. It's blocking the flow of shiat so much it seems to be flowing over into your keyboard.
 
2012-10-22 04:30:22 AM  

Mad_Radhu: I've done it in my automatic a few tikes when Seattle has been hit with nasty winter storms. Automatics DO have those lower gears, you know, and you can control your speed and torque on ice almost as well as you can with a manual.


Not so much.

Seattle's one thing. Spend some time in Alaska, then come talk to me about it.

In icy conditions and deep snow, there's a big difference between the two. First, it's much easier to rock out of deep snow with a clutch. Bounce it and use the inertia. With an automatic, you have to keep shifting, and there's a delay between the shift and disengagement that's hard to time.

Second, the problem on ice is getting started and stopping while keeping the wheels straight. With an automatic, you're at the mercy of your idle speed starting out -- a clutch helps you adjust it so your wheels don't sit there and spin. Using engine braking and clutch helps you keep it straighter than just shifting to a lower gear and again, being at the mercy of your engine speed.

You probably don't have to worry much about it in Seattle, but when you do it several months out of the year, it's a different story.
 
2012-10-22 04:35:20 AM  
Bought one of these in my second season of racing... Installed it on my first F1 chassis.

www.translogicuk.com

It shifts a great deal faster than I ever could with my foot. Blink-of-the-eye-wide-open-throttle shifting. Also includes launch control, traction control, and auto blip on downshifts. It convinced me that flappy paddle was the way to go when it comes to high performance.

Here's video of a test run after I got the system installed and dialed in... listen to how fast it bangs through the gears... Translogic Test Run ~ CSR chassis / CBR1000RR powerplant
 
2012-10-22 04:36:25 AM  

tzzhc4: People who say driving a manual transmission isn't fun typically haven't driven a manual transmission. Sure paddles are easier and computer controlled shifting is faster and more effcient but a manual transmission is fun to drive (execpt in stop and go traffic).


You have factual, scientific standards that clearly identify if a particular experience and situation will be universally percieved as fun by all humans? Really? How fascinating. You should look into publishing that.
 
2012-10-22 04:38:08 AM  

Cewley: steering and pushing the gas pedal is not driving.


The highway is pretty straight, so I'm hardly steering.
And I don't need to push the gas pedal, because I've got the cruise control set to 54mph.
Sorry, what were we talking about?

/Anyone who calls it "flappy-paddle" gets their opinions from Top Gear and can shove it.
 
2012-10-22 04:46:11 AM  

I Like Bread: /Anyone who calls it "flappy-paddle" gets their opinions from Top Gear and can shove it.


I've taken the liberty of notifying Wikipedia, McLaren, and Mercedes for you.
 
2012-10-22 04:47:03 AM  
The stick-shift is the pleasure center of the vehicle. Automatic means your just steering and pushing the faster pedal.
 
2012-10-22 04:47:27 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Seattle's one thing. Spend some time in Alaska, then come talk to me about it


Yes, the least populated state in America is what we should base all of our automotive needs on.

Lenny_da_Hog: With an automatic, you have to keep shifting, and there's a delay between the shift and disengagement that's hard to time.


Huh? You can handle the manual, but the automatic is too complicated to time? You're like a transmission savant.
 
2012-10-22 04:53:02 AM  

i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.


Bull... Look at all the people texting and driving, for example...
 
2012-10-22 04:55:28 AM  

Soupysales: Lenny_da_Hog: Seattle's one thing. Spend some time in Alaska, then come talk to me about it

Yes, the least populated state in America is what we should base all of our automotive needs on.

Lenny_da_Hog: With an automatic, you have to keep shifting, and there's a delay between the shift and disengagement that's hard to time.

Huh? You can handle the manual, but the automatic is too complicated to time? You're like a transmission savant.


There are so many talented trolls on Fark. You are not among them.
 
2012-10-22 04:56:31 AM  
Another story that is timely with the rise of driverless cars.
 
2012-10-22 05:04:29 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: There are so many talented trolls on Fark. You are not among them.


Those are legitimate responses from me. I apologize if you feel you're being trolled. But I do suppose that claim is easier than responding to my initial (and very real, I'll reiterate) position that your notions are extremely situational and plain dumb, respectively.
 
2012-10-22 05:25:02 AM  
As a person who drives manual, I prefer automatic. Suck it haters
 
2012-10-22 05:29:20 AM  
USA
Me: 1997 F 250 7.3ltr diesel stick can pass everything in sight crossing Teton Pass pulling a 4 sled trailer.
Wife: 2007 Boxster stick wife let me drive it once...fun car.
Italy
Me and wife: 2010 Panda Cross diesel STICK of course. 60,000 klicks on curvy mountain road in Basilicata, Italy.


Any of the above vehicles would be crap without a manual transmission.
Manual much safer for braking, passing when broken lines are short or there's distant oncoming cars, or whenever you needs some instant torque to get out of the way of something. Should we talk about better gas mileage????
 
2012-10-22 05:31:31 AM  

Soupysales: Lenny_da_Hog: There are so many talented trolls on Fark. You are not among them.

Those are legitimate responses from me. I apologize if you feel you're being trolled. But I do suppose that claim is easier than responding to my initial (and very real, I'll reiterate) position that your notions are extremely situational and plain dumb, respectively.


Dunning-Kruger effect on your part.

To rock a car out of snow, you have to time it precisely so that you disengage at the point the tires start to slip, let the car rock in the other direction, re-engage until it slips, let it rock again, and the inertia you build eventually plows you through the snow.

An automatic transmission has a delay when shifting from N to R, or N to D. You end up spinning your wheels and creating ice on the snow pack, or losing inertia by shifting out of gear too soon while precompensating for the delay. A clutch gives you precise control by immediately disengaging the transmission.

And I clearly said that it may be fine for Seattle, but where people drive in ice and snow for months at a time, it makes a big difference. That goes along with the whole, "drive what you're comfortable with for your driving needs" thing that I was talking about. I didn't say automatics should be taken from the market, I said there are differences between the two.

If you are not a simpleton troll, you are merely a simpleton.
 
2012-10-22 05:38:52 AM  
Lenny_da_Hog
If you are not a simpleton troll, you are merely a simpleton.

"If you don't understand what I'm saying when I jump from point A to point E without actually explaining anything, it's all your fault."
 
2012-10-22 05:39:34 AM  

Claude Ballse: If I may be so bold, allow me a few seconds for an alternate opinion.

Look at these:

[image.off-roadweb.com image 640x480]

Know what those are? Those are the Clutch Packs out of an automatic transmission. They are designed to sacrifice themselves in order for an automatic transmission to work. And on modern cars with gentle shifting automatics, this is accomplished by allowing these packs to slip more and tear apart more friction material each time.


Never actually driven an automatic that needed to have its transmission repaired or replaced. First car I ever drove was 20 years old when I started driving it. First car I ever bought was 40 years old when I bought it. Last few cars I owned were 10-12 years old when I got rid of them, mostly due to body rot. Last two MANUAL cars I owned needed clutch replacements on the day I bought them.

Maybe what you say is true, but I'm willing to continue to put my faith in an automatic transmission.
 
2012-10-22 05:46:38 AM  
Manuals are mechanically simpler, more versatile, get better fuel economy and give more control of the vehicle and are hence safer.
Autos (torque converters, double clutch etc) are much less of a pain in stop/start conditions like congested cities.

Most people live in cities.

But manuals give you much more insight into what the machine is doing and needs, whereas autos tend to encourage a kind of laziness and disinterest which is dangerous to public safety in my view.
But autos have been around for so long and there's so much tech in vehicles now. As a result some modern drivers are so disinterested in, and almost hostile to the concept of, taking an active interest in the lethal weapon they are legally in charge of that the damage is done.
Driver training and enforcement is the answer.
 
2012-10-22 05:50:32 AM  

snuff3r: I do 90% of my driving in the inner-city (where i live) and the CBD. I can't stand manual.

Then again, i'm on a motorbike 95% of the time so...


Lucky for you they make a motorcycle with a DCT and button shifters...
Honda NC700X DCT
 
2012-10-22 05:51:50 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Dunning-Kruger effect on your part.

To rock a car out of snow, you have to time it precisely so that you disengage at the point the tires start to slip, let the car rock in the other direction, re-engage until it slips, let it rock again, and the inertia you build eventually plows you through the snow.

An automatic transmission has a delay when shifting from N to R, or N to D. You end up spinning your wheels and creating ice on the snow pack, or losing inertia by shifting out of gear too soon while precompensating for the delay. A clutch gives you precise control by immediately disengaging the transmission.

And I clearly said that it may be fine for Seattle, but where people drive in ice and snow for months at a time, it makes a big difference. That goes along with the whole, "drive what you're comfortable with for your driving needs" thing that I was talking about. I didn't say automatics should be taken from the market, I said there are differences between the two.

If you are not a simpleton troll, you are merely a simpleton.


I appreciate your obvious concern for my mental deficiencies. And I'm suitably impressed by your psychic abilities in pulling my driving history from the ether.

I live in Chicago. I make no claim that our winters can match Alaska, but I think the snow and ice gives a reasonable facsimile. I've driven both automatics and manuals in those conditions. I've been stuck in both. In both cases, I was able to rock the car out of the position I was mired in. But I'm in no way claiming to match your driving prowess, I'm clearly outclassed.

Yes, you've shown yourself to be completely objective on this subject.

POTATO!
 
2012-10-22 05:52:49 AM  
I believe in progress. Automatic windows, automatic transmissions.
 
2012-10-22 05:55:46 AM  

I Like Bread: And I don't need to push the gas pedal, because I've got the cruise control set to 54mph.


My previous car, a Topaz, a manual Topaz, had cruise control. Just sayin'.

/ (With an engine that small, the manual transmission _definitely_ made a difference. The automatic version was dangerously underpowered.)
 
2012-10-22 05:59:32 AM  
This thread is a good indicator of how many people don't RTFA. Author is comparing a manual with a paddle shift high-performance transmission. I tend to agree with him. I love driving a stick shift, but I'd really go nuts to get to drive a paddle shifter on the track.
 
2012-10-22 06:02:12 AM  
I blew my clutch and flywheel over the weekend so I'm getting a kick and a $3000 bill.
 
2012-10-22 06:05:27 AM  
the fun part of driving a manual is being able to tell the car exactly what to do at any time

the practical side of driving a manual is getting better gas mileage

the big downside of driving a manual is if you live in someplace with steep roads

also stop & go traffic with a manual will make you want to shoot yourself
 
2012-10-22 06:05:32 AM  

Zombalupagus: This thread is a good indicator of how many people don't RTFA.


Fark has articles now?
 
2012-10-22 06:07:07 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.


My car has them... call it the "Masterbation Transmission" because it's sort of kind of like the real thing but not really close enough to satisfy.
 
2012-10-22 06:08:01 AM  
Manual transmission = lower fuel consumption = saving the children.
Manual transmission = acceleration in emergency situations = saving the children.

If you care about children you will contact your representative and demand that all vehicles be manual. Why do you hate your children?
 
2012-10-22 06:13:46 AM  
drh2.img.digitalriver.com
 
2012-10-22 06:15:49 AM  

Shadow Blasko: starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(

No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)


Try real Belgian white chocolate. It contains real cocoa butter therefore it does contain cocoa
 
2012-10-22 06:17:54 AM  

Soupysales: I live in Chicago. I make no claim that our winters can match Alaska, but I think the snow and ice gives a reasonable facsimile. I've driven both automatics and manuals in those conditions. I've been stuck in both. In both cases, I was able to rock the car out of the position I was mired in.


Right. There are absolutely no differences in performance between the manuals and automatics, under any conditions. That's what you're sticking to. It's all just fashion and price.
 
2012-10-22 06:27:55 AM  
"A Manual Transmission Is Not The Only Way To Enjoy A Car And You Need To Deal With It
Travis Okulski

Car enthusiasts have been bemoaning the lack of manual transmissions in cars for what seems like an eternity."

An Automatic Transmission Is Not The Only Way To Enjoy A Car And You Need To Deal With It
 
2012-10-22 06:30:38 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Right. There are absolutely no differences in performance between the manuals and automatics, under any conditions. That's what you're sticking to. It's all just fashion and price.


You have seen through my charade. You have once again bested me in verbal combat and torn asunder my claim that in many situations that are faced by people (not even the avalanches and blizzards that you normally contend with), an automatic is simply incapable of dealing with snow.

I don't know why I lied. I guess I just wanted to be cool. But you wouldn't let me. I will take this new knowledge, and your psychological diagnosis of my ineptitude, to try and become a better person. A person who will drive a manual. A person who will deliver scorn and disdain on those who do not support our way of life. TO THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION!
 
2012-10-22 06:41:12 AM  
In Europe, everyone drives a manual.
 
2012-10-22 06:43:47 AM  

TenJed_77: Shadow Blasko: starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(

No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)

Try real Belgian white chocolate. It contains real cocoa butter therefore it does contain cocoa


You forget that you may be talking to an american who might, if they were lucky, have seen real chocolate in pictures. To them, if you get a bag of sugar, some fat of any sort, mix it up, make it brown and flavour it with carob, that`s chocolate.

Also, they get no joy from their car so their viewpoint on what makes a car more fun is not valid.
 
2012-10-22 06:44:00 AM  
I give my dad a pass on the matter. My grandfather, as well.

My father drives a concrete mixer; My grandfather drove a big rig, both of them for 12+ hours a day. All they wanted to do at the end of the day was get in their car and get home without having to fark about.
 
2012-10-22 06:46:13 AM  

Soupysales: Lenny_da_Hog: Right. There are absolutely no differences in performance between the manuals and automatics, under any conditions. That's what you're sticking to. It's all just fashion and price.

You have seen through my charade. You have once again bested me in verbal combat and torn asunder my claim that in many situations that are faced by people (not even the avalanches and blizzards that you normally contend with), an automatic is simply incapable of dealing with snow.

I don't know why I lied. I guess I just wanted to be cool. But you wouldn't let me. I will take this new knowledge, and your psychological diagnosis of my ineptitude, to try and become a better person. A person who will drive a manual. A person who will deliver scorn and disdain on those who do not support our way of life. TO THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION!


Automatics are great in the snow because they always drive like you are slipping the clutch.....(hint, not so good if you have proper traction unless you want to buy a car that costs more than your house)
 
2012-10-22 06:53:27 AM  
Why would I pay thousands of dollars for something I don't need? Automatic transmissions are a waste of money for those of us who don't need them.
 
2012-10-22 06:54:50 AM  

dready zim: TenJed_77: Shadow Blasko: starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(

No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)

Try real Belgian white chocolate. It contains real cocoa butter therefore it does contain cocoa

You forget that you may be talking to an american who might, if they were lucky, have seen real chocolate in pictures. To them, if you get a bag of sugar, some fat of any sort, mix it up, make it brown and flavour it with carob, that`s chocolate.

Also, they get no joy from their car so their viewpoint on what makes a car more fun is not valid.


Yes, but you must admit that since the EU changed the law allowing manufacturers to replace cocoa butter with soy butter, you really have to read the packages.
And I love that here in France if you have the "boite automatique seulement" stamped on your license, your pretty much retard by the po-lice.
 
2012-10-22 06:58:46 AM  

TenJed_77: dready zim: TenJed_77: Shadow Blasko: starsrift: Meh. I have a manual right now. I'd rather have an automatic. My car is a vehicle and means, not a source of joy.


Shadow Blasko: Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

I used to think you were pretty cool. :(

No cocoa, not chocolate.

;)

Try real Belgian white chocolate. It contains real cocoa butter therefore it does contain cocoa

You forget that you may be talking to an american who might, if they were lucky, have seen real chocolate in pictures. To them, if you get a bag of sugar, some fat of any sort, mix it up, make it brown and flavour it with carob, that`s chocolate.

Also, they get no joy from their car so their viewpoint on what makes a car more fun is not valid.

Yes, but you must admit that since the EU changed the law allowing manufacturers to replace cocoa butter with soy butter, you really have to read the packages.
And I love that here in France if you have the "boite automatique seulement" stamped on your license, your pretty much retard by the po-lice.

pretty much considered a retard by the po-lice
/I really need to start using that preview button.
 
2012-10-22 07:16:56 AM  
I feel safer driving a manual.

If I lived in the city, I'd probably own an automatic. Or just ride my bike everywhere. That's not happening anytime soon though.

I don't care what other people like/choose to drive.

Never driven a dual clutch paddle shift, but I'd kinda like to give one a try. From what I hear about low speed driving though, they sound like they might be a little impractical as a daily driver.
 
2012-10-22 07:19:17 AM  
Since I rarely drive a sportscar on a racetrack, but DO enjoy driving my stickshift on a daily basis, this guy can suck my balls.
 
2012-10-22 07:22:28 AM  
My car has a manual transmission, but my bike has the flappy paddle. Yamaha FJR1300-AE.
 
2012-10-22 07:27:57 AM  
When three hours of your day is spent commuting, driving is no longer fun. I'll just stick with my reliable and cheap Elantra thanks.
 
2012-10-22 07:29:25 AM  
I suppose you manual tranny types also want an old-timey crank handle sticking out of the front bumper. Might as well. It's also another obsolete feature of cars that serves no purpose.

iasshole.org
 
2012-10-22 07:33:46 AM  
I don't really care what transmission I have unless I am going to be in city traffic and have one manual, one sequential/flappy/whatever at the moment, but I'll you flappy paddle enthusiasts one goddamn thing: Don't ever pat yourself on the back over reduced maintenance costs. The transmission ECU went out in my MR2 this year and just the PART was $6,200 in a car I only paid $11,000 for. There was nothing aftermarket, used, wrecked, or rebuilt out there to be had either because it was never a popular car.

/damned thing had better last me twenty years now...
 
2012-10-22 07:35:18 AM  

Tunney: In Europe, everyone drives a manual.


Yes. However, in the US, we've gotten in a negative feedback loop. Manuals are rare enough that it's hard to get the opportunity to learn. Almost anyone who owns one is 'a car person' to some degree (enough to seek out the rare manual vehicle). These are the same people who really don't like other people touching their cars. Thus, I've asked at least a dozen friends over the years if I could try learning stick with them, I've never touched a clutch pedal. Some of the other alternatives (rent a manual vehicle, take a driving lesson in a manual vehicle) are also near-impossible in the US.
 
2012-10-22 07:35:25 AM  
I lived in the city with the worst drivers and the worst traffic. I wouldn't trade my manual for *anything*.
/Also it's harder to steal
 
2012-10-22 07:37:11 AM  
Screw the whole debate about what's more efficient/enjoyable/faster/necessary... what IS a fact is that if we forced everyone on the road today to drive manual, the 60% of the populace who have their craniums inside their rectal cavity and do things like change lanes without signaling, refuse to merge when a lane tells them to merge so that they back up traffic and cause an accident, go 10 under in the fast lane, tailgate, stop in the middle of merge lanes and generally just act like clueless dickheads then these people would not be on the road. People of such low moral and intellectual caliber that can't do something as simple as pay attention don't deserve to be on the road, period, and a manual transmission would do a fine job of weeding them out, or at the very least converting some of them to semi-responsible drivers. I take my driving *very* seriously because it's not my job to make others' lives more difficult and endanger them, and it seems as though very few people do the same.

Granted, I live primarily in the DC metro area, and the one time I drove in New York I almost wept tears of joy at how polite and efficient drivers there are.
 
2012-10-22 07:41:49 AM  
"I see no reason to row myself across town."

- Phil Hill, on why he drove an automatic as his daily driver
 
2012-10-22 07:42:21 AM  
What your future transmission looks like.
www.ctiautomation.net
 
2012-10-22 07:45:58 AM  
I have a GT-R. It is a blast to drive. There's no way I could shift as fast as it does, and I grew up driving "manuals".

/quotation marks because shifting with paddles is manual shifting, too.
 
2012-10-22 07:46:28 AM  
i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.

CSB

Last summer, I pulled up next to a weekend rebel on his Harley. He was rolling the throttle a little and waiting for a left turn light. I was right next to him in the non turning lane in my Miata with the top down.

He gets his arrow and pops the clutch killing the motorcycle. I started laughing so hard that he heard it. Looked like he was ready to push the Harley down to the Honda dealership and buy a used Hondamatic. He got it started and rolled out like a bad ass. Then he almost went in to the ditch because he turned so wide. More laughter.
 
2012-10-22 07:52:40 AM  
The manual vs automatic transmission debate is for nancy boys that don't know jack about performance. It was different in the early days of automatic transmissions but todays automatics can shift perfectly every time regardless of how tired or distracted the driver is. You can also shift an automatic transmission manually. I like to reprogram mine and have been doing so since the '80s. It's easier to do these days since it's computer controlled.

As to the commuters don't need performance line of thought. I am a commuter. My commuting vehicle of choice is a 2005 BMW K1200S. 0-60 in less than 3 seconds, 0-100 in less than 5 seconds and it takes less than 10 seconds to go from zero to jail time. This bike is not used for recreation or racing, it is used to commute 25 miles to work 5 days a week in any weather except snow and ice. For that I use the GTO.
 
2012-10-22 07:58:57 AM  
www.autolife.umd.umich.edu
"All yal biatches ain't driving, this is driving"
 
2012-10-22 08:01:54 AM  
Hipster douchebags now want to drive a stick, ever since automatic transmissions became more efficient than stick. Duh.
 
2012-10-22 08:13:36 AM  
Haven't read the thread so I'm sure this point will have been made, but DSG style transmissions are manual, just computer controlled. No torque convertor or other things associated with an automatic transmission.

Myself? I wouldn't have an auto. DSG with manual selection, well, I've never driven one. But I can't see how being unable to choose a gear could be an advantage with a car.
 
2012-10-22 08:15:31 AM  
LOL this is ALWAYS a debate on Fark when this topic comes up!

People who argue that Manuals are better than Automatics, never account for Auto-Stick... they ALWAYS use the same argument:

1. It's boring!
2. I can feel the car better!
3. I have to pay more attention!
4. I won't get distracted with my coffee or phone!
5. It's NOT REAL driving if it's not manual!
6. It's a MANLY/LIFE Skill that is required!!!
7. You get better gas mileage!
8. It's cheaper!!

LOL all these arguments are fail!

1. Get auto-stick.. it's awesome shifting through gears without the need a clutch.. and if you are tired or stuck in traffic, switch to automatic.
2. Again, get auto-stick.. you can FEEL every gear, every RPM, every shift.
3. Uhh, you should always be paying attention anyway. Also this argument is invalid as a lot of people who drive manuals say they can use their phone, eat and change the radio station without noticing.
4. See above... a lot of you manual lovers say you can still drive and drink your coffee.
5. LOL not real driving... that's why all the worlds highest end, most powerful cars no longer use it.
6. Again LOL at the life needed skill... don't worry, I can use the rotary phone too! I believe knowing how to change a tire is much more important. But, I have AAA platinum service, and they NEVER took more than an hour if I needed them. Also, most cars these days come with run flats. Hell, my car doesn't even have a spare tire or donut.
7. You might NOT actually get better gas mileage if you like to run through the gears. Newer auto-sticks will actually shut down cylinders (my car goes from 8 to 4) to save on gas on long coasts.
8. You got me on this one at first. It is about 1k cheaper to buy a manual than an automatic. But, you know what else? My boss who only drives manual just had to replace her clutch after 70k miles and cost her about 1,500$. My automatic won't need that, and I have the extended warranty anyway up to about 100k miles.
 
2012-10-22 08:17:30 AM  
I miss my standard : ( ! I hope I can find a decent one cheapish in time to teach the snowflakes to drive.
 
2012-10-22 08:21:01 AM  
If only people who bought a manual had any inkling how to drive one. Every day I'm stuck behind some twit who thinks he can drive a manual. Meanwhile, I have to lane-shift and get ahead of him because he has no idea how to shift to the next gear in anything less than 5 seconds. Sorry buddy, but there's no reason to coast at 50 for 5 seconds so that you can shift up and get to the 70 speed limit.

I've watched people who have "driven manuals for 20 years" fail at anything remotely resembling proper shifting. It's just downright sad. Just give it up and buy automatic already.
 
2012-10-22 08:25:01 AM  
to get a manual, i had to order mine online and wait two months for it to be built and shipped from germany.

/worth the wait
 
2012-10-22 08:25:53 AM  

TV's Vinnie: I suppose you manual tranny types also want an old-timey crank handle sticking out of the front bumper. Might as well. It's also another obsolete feature of cars that serves no purpose.

[iasshole.org image 300x438]


If being old tech is the only reason not to use something, that explains why you guys never use your turn-signals.
 
2012-10-22 08:25:59 AM  
What the article didn't mention was repair costs. When the transmission goes in a manual transmission car its relatively easy to fix in your garage with a $500 clutch kit. When your automatic transmission or a fancy racing paddle shifter goes bad you're looking at a huge bill. Case in point? The very same gearbox in the Nissan GT-R the author likes so much is known to fail after only a few months and leave the owner with a ~$20K bill!

http://www.caradvice.com.au/41901/report-nissan-settles-gt-r-transmis s ion-class-action-suit/
 
2012-10-22 08:27:35 AM  
This article is relevant to my interests. I'm toying with buying the new ILX from Acura as a manual (better features than the auto/hybrid). I also miss driving a manual because it is far more fun to drive. My biggest issue is that Mrs. Studson doesn't know how to drive a stick (inb4 snark/obvious joke).
 
2012-10-22 08:28:42 AM  
For those of us that actually enjoy driving an automobile, having as much control of the car as possibly is key.

I prefer a third pedal and the ability to row through the gears. It's a thrill thing, it's a control thing, and it's not for everybody.

/not elitist
//Just enjoys driving.
 
2012-10-22 08:30:15 AM  
Travis a retard that doesn't get "driving"...
 
2012-10-22 08:31:00 AM  

Studson: This article is relevant to my interests. I'm toying with buying the new ILX from Acura as a manual (better features than the auto/hybrid). I also miss driving a manual because it is far more fun to drive. My biggest issue is that Mrs. Studson doesn't know how to drive a stick (inb4 snark/obvious joke).


I drive a 2010 Acura TSX 6-speed manual. It is the best car I have ever driven. Honda knows how to build a proper manual transmission.
 
2012-10-22 08:32:41 AM  
Ive been a car enthusiast for a long time. Manual transmissions are dated technology. The only real advantage is less parasitic drivetrain loss... but unless you can complete your shift in 2/10ths of a second perfectly, every time (hahhahHHaHaHaHA) you arent out driving an automatic transmission.

I have a strong feeling these guys are thinking of slush boxes instead of modern high performance transmissions.

Show me an F1 car with a clutch. Go ahead, I'll wait.
 
2012-10-22 08:34:33 AM  
I'll just leave this here, please support the cause fellow manual drivers:

Link
 
2012-10-22 08:37:21 AM  
I'd prefer three pedals if my knees weren't eaten up with arthritis. I haven't been able to drive a stick without considerable pain since I turned 35.
 
2012-10-22 08:39:37 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Why can't we all get along?

Manual is great for many things, and it generally keeps drivers more attentive, and engaged in driving.

Automatic is great for heavy traffic, and dealing with heavy loads, and is less of a pain in my leg on long trips.

Flappy paddles are an abomination, not unlike white chocolate, and should be met with disdain at every opportunity.

Seriously though, through many years of technological advances, automatic transmissions are no long the sloppy laggy things they once were.

When Mclaren says "The auto is just as good as the manual" I tend to believe them.

I still prefer to drive my manual. I have no issue with anyone who chooses otherwise.

I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one. (along with how to change a tire, check oil.. etc)


This. Driving on trips through mountains do not lend well to automatics.
 
2012-10-22 08:43:02 AM  

Alonjar: Ive been a car enthusiast for a long time. Manual transmissions are dated technology. The only real advantage is less parasitic drivetrain loss... but unless you can complete your shift in 2/10ths of a second perfectly, every time (hahhahHHaHaHaHA) you arent out driving an automatic transmission.

I have a strong feeling these guys are thinking of slush boxes instead of modern high performance transmissions.

Show me an F1 car with a clutch. Go ahead, I'll wait.


... All F1 cars have clutches. Multiplate clutches.
 
2012-10-22 08:49:51 AM  
Id also be willing that most people have not driven the latest generation of tech cars in general... you cant talk about knowing the road better than a computer if you've never driven a car with 6 axis velocity tracking that can respond within milliseconds to vehicle and and road conditions via automatic adjustments to wheel speeds, dampening, steering, etc... you just have no idea, and you've definitely not pulled the G's that would be impossible without it.

Computers are really farking awesome things when properly applied to cars.

Of course, all this cost bucks... but wtf we're talking about car enthusiasts here, since when has go fast ever been cheap. If you're poor, join a miata club or something and stop hating.
 
2012-10-22 08:49:55 AM  

Alonjar: Ive been a car enthusiast for a long time. Manual transmissions are dated technology. The only real advantage is less parasitic drivetrain loss... but unless you can complete your shift in 2/10ths of a second perfectly, every time (hahhahHHaHaHaHA) you arent out driving an automatic transmission.

I have a strong feeling these guys are thinking of slush boxes instead of modern high performance transmissions.

Show me an F1 car with a clutch. Go ahead, I'll wait.

"A modern F1 clutch is a multi-plate carbon design with a diameter of less than 100 mm (3.9 in),[8] weighing less than 1 kg (2.2 lb) and handling around 720 hp (540 kW)."


They are semi-automatics, there's still a clutch, it's just depressed automatically when the driver hits the paddle shifter. They still need to engage it manually when moving to and from a standstill...
 
2012-10-22 08:50:16 AM  

dickfreckle: Shadow Blasko: I *do* think that as long as there are manual transmissions, it should be considered a life skill to learn how to drive one.

Agreed, but a friend of mine made an interesting point. "I want my son to learn to drive a manual, but where the hell do I find one? Unless you have a friend's manual you can borrow for an afternoon, teaching kids how to drive one is going to be a hassle. Not impossible, but a hassle when you and your wife's cars are both automatics. This is true in America, at least. In Europe and many other places, the 11 year-old paper boy already knows how to drive a stick.

I learned from a friend in high school, but this was in the early 90s when manuals were still somewhat common.

CSB alert: About a year ago I was out with some friends, and this one girl got too drunk to drive. So I offered, having a friend follow to take me back. She asked if I could drive a stick. When I got to the vehicle, I was honestly shocked that it was a brand new Saturn Vue, or similar small SUV/crossover whatever. When I smiled and complimented her for driving a stick she said, "I had to wait three weeks to get one with a manual. I farking hate automatics."

As you can presume, I fell in love right on the spot. We dated for a few months.


Probably WAS a Vue. When it came out, it was pretty much the only small/ medium SUV available in the US with a stick. It was one of the most BORING cars available at the time, too... but god damn it, you could have one with a stick. I see them fairly often. It's actually a popular conversion now for the 2003-2004 4- cylinder models that had the abominable, world's worst transmission ever CVT that GM stuck in them. See, GM is no longer replacing/ repairing them for free, good used ones are nearly non- existent, and rebuilding them is a biatch. I know someone that had one get a new transmission, free from GM, 3 TIMES before 100,000 miles. Now, when they go bad, people find a wrecked one with the stick, and get all the parts to switch it over. They were a pretty good car, with the exception of 03-04 4- cylinder automatics (CVT)
 
2012-10-22 08:51:22 AM  
Oh whatever, you guys know what i meant... foot activated clutch while driving.

An automatic clutch is still an automatic.. arguing semantics.
 
2012-10-22 08:53:50 AM  

Alonjar: arguing semantics.


On Fark? You don't say....

/I knew what you meant.
 
2012-10-22 08:56:19 AM  
Funny how all the author talks about is speed. Probably because he's trying to push a bias and doesn't want non-aligned facts being brought into the picture he's trying to paint.

Do I care about speed in my stick-shift ecobox? Heck no. I care about more control, better milage, and the fact that replacing a worn out clutch costs less than a tenth of the price as replacing a broken automatic transmission. That last one is particularly important: Clutch gone bad on a stick-shift? You're out $200, tops. Transmission go kaput on an automatic? May as well just go buy a new car - it'll be cheaper.
 
2012-10-22 08:56:42 AM  
After a few decades of shifting, I just got tired of it.

Besides, cars and trucks are just a tool for transportation. If it goes from Point-A to point-B with the least amount of fuss and cost, who really cares?
 
2012-10-22 08:57:30 AM  

Studson: This article is relevant to my interests. I'm toying with buying the new ILX from Acura as a manual (better features than the auto/hybrid). I also miss driving a manual because it is far more fun to drive. My biggest issue is that Mrs. Studson doesn't know how to drive a stick (inb4 snark/obvious joke).


If your wife truly loves you, she will learn to drive a stick or she will accept your ownership of a car that she cannot drive.

/My car may be the subject of a derisive meme, but at least it has a manual transmission.
//VTEC just kicked in, yo.
 
2012-10-22 09:00:42 AM  

Dimensio: My car may be the subject of a derisive meme


You have a Corvair?
 
2012-10-22 09:03:49 AM  

nopokerface: Dimensio: My car may be the subject of a derisive meme

You have a Corvair?


I own a 2010 Honda Civic Si. I do have some standards, low as they may be.
 
2012-10-22 09:04:22 AM  
Unfortunately, we have already reached the point where a mass market automatic transmission can surpass a manual for gas mileage, and race automatics (or manu-matics, or dual-clutch auto-magical faux manuals, etc) can out-shift someone who really knows what they're doing.

Manuals are slower than the machines, and will continue to be so in the future. Manuals are a bit of fun, but that's it, unfortunately. They're dying.


www.blogcdn.com
 
2012-10-22 09:05:43 AM  

Dimensio: nopokerface: Dimensio: My car may be the subject of a derisive meme

You have a Corvair?

I own a 2010 Honda Civic Si. I do have some standards, low as they may be.


Those are fun, but I wish they wouldn't make the instrument display so childish in the newest ones. No one over 25 wants any of that ridiculous red flashy crap, or a VTEC light.
 
2012-10-22 09:07:46 AM  

ph0rk: Dimensio: nopokerface: Dimensio: My car may be the subject of a derisive meme

You have a Corvair?

I own a 2010 Honda Civic Si. I do have some standards, low as they may be.

Those are fun, but I wish they wouldn't make the instrument display so childish in the newest ones. No one over 25 wants any of that ridiculous red flashy crap, or a VTEC light.


The VTEC light was added to the 2012 models, thus mine lacks it. The high RPM warning light is actually occasionally useful to me, as it reminds me to change gears before my engine cuts out automatically on the occasions that I require rapid acceleration.
 
2012-10-22 09:17:08 AM  

Alonjar: Oh whatever, you guys know what i meant... foot activated clutch while driving.

An automatic clutch is still an automatic.. arguing semantics.


Semantics is one of the reasons why much of the time these discussions, arguments are idiotic. When someone said automatic transmission 20 years ago, they were talking about a planetary gearset and a torque converter as a power coupling. 20 years ago, a manual transmission was a stick operated constant mesh gear box with a foot pedal clutch.

A lot of gripes manual drivers have against automatics are directly regarding the torque converter-planetary gearset combination and how it's controlled.

An F1 car transmission is closer to what people used to say was a manual transmission in that it has a clutch and a constant mesh gearbox, even though when moving, the clutch is computer controlled, the shifting is by wire and it has a sequential shift mechanism.

This is why I've given up on having an intelligent discussion on this topic with people who don't have at least a cursory understanding of the devices behind the firewall, under the floorboard or in the tunnel.
 
2012-10-22 09:18:49 AM  
As someone who's in a semi right now, I'm getting a kick...
 
2012-10-22 09:20:22 AM  

DarthBart: For a grocery getter, eh, a slushbox is fine.


I disagree: my bicycle uses a manually controlled gearshift.
 
2012-10-22 09:25:39 AM  
I love my new manual Tacoma. I am one with my truck.
 
2012-10-22 09:27:34 AM  

Dimensio: DarthBart: For a grocery getter, eh, a slushbox is fine.

I disagree: my bicycle uses a manually controlled gearshift.


You're just a holdout to old tech. I know secretly you want a Landrider Elite with AUTOSHIFT.
 
2012-10-22 09:29:59 AM  
I have an autotrans in an eminently forgettable auto. It gets great mileage, it's about as cutting edge as a grade 8 bolt and starts every time.

I have a motorcycle for driving.

I don't live in Kansas. I live in New England, home of the original twisted highway engineer. I have a lot of challenging roads around that are best enjoyed on a motorcycle, @ 50+mpg
 
2012-10-22 09:30:03 AM  

ph0rk: Those are fun, but I wish they wouldn't make the instrument display so childish in the newest ones. No one over 25 wants any of that ridiculous red flashy crap, or a VTEC light.


But don't you have to be over 25 to be able to remember the 'VTEC just kicked in, yo!' meme? Of what purpose is the light, if you can't?
 
2012-10-22 09:30:34 AM  
When you have to go out of you way to get a manual transmission, it's not really standard, is it? Automatic is the new standard.
 
2012-10-22 09:30:38 AM  

Monirae: I love my new manual Tacoma. I am one with my truck.


[Irrelevant comparison to some obscure mechanism within a Space Shuttle. Hey, they both have payload beds, therefore...]
 
2012-10-22 09:36:53 AM  
These thread are always interesting. You've got the elitists, versus the people who are insecure about their own capabilities: "Yes, I can't drive a manual, so what, don't you dare imply that I am not perfect!!"
 
2012-10-22 09:38:45 AM  

incrdbil: Manual transmissions hold no advantage over automatics in performance.


Bullshiat.

Five years ago I went looking for a Honda Element. I drove a half dozen of them, all barely had the power to get out of their own way.

Last one I drove was a stick shift. I was in a cold sweat merging onto a state highway from the dealers parking lot. By the time my test drive was over I couldn't get my wallet out fast enough.
 
2012-10-22 09:40:04 AM  
When I was a young'un, my dad pointed out that all the 'transmission repair shops' were 'automatic transmission repair shops' and there was 2-3 in most towns .. I do most maintenance on my vehicles (tires and alignment excluded, you need big pricey equipment for those jobs) .. that's why I prefer standard .. and at least my 1.7l civic can get out of it's own way with a stick ..
 
2012-10-22 09:40:16 AM  

evoke: These thread are always interesting. You've got the elitists, versus the people who are insecure about their own capabilities: "Yes, I can't drive a manual, so what, don't you dare imply that I am not perfect!!"


I can drive a manual, and it is vastly overrated, especially when it comes to city driving.
 
2012-10-22 09:41:36 AM  

NephilimNexus: Funny how all the author talks about is speed. Probably because he's trying to push a bias and doesn't want non-aligned facts being brought into the picture he's trying to paint.

Do I care about speed in my stick-shift ecobox? Heck no. I care about more control, better milage, and the fact that replacing a worn out clutch costs less than a tenth of the price as replacing a broken automatic transmission. That last one is particularly important: Clutch gone bad on a stick-shift? You're out $200, tops. Transmission go kaput on an automatic? May as well just go buy a new car - it'll be cheaper.


Know how I can tell you haven't replaced a clutch in 30 years? You're old and wrong.
 
2012-10-22 09:41:49 AM  
My Mazda 5 has a manual transmission. The dealer had to order it from another dealer 300 miles away. They are getting harder and harder to find. My last one was automatic, and this one is far more fun to drive. Well, as fun as a station wagon/ minivan can be.
 
2012-10-22 09:43:05 AM  

petec: When I was a young'un, my dad pointed out that all the 'transmission repair shops' were 'automatic transmission repair shops' and there was 2-3 in most towns .. I do most maintenance on my vehicles (tires and alignment excluded, you need big pricey equipment for those jobs) .. that's why I prefer standard .. and at least my 1.7l civic can get out of it's own way with a stick ..


Technology has definitely stood still since your father was a young man. He probably showed you how to replace tubes in the TV, and I'm sure you still buy TV sets where it's easy to replace the tubes.
 
2012-10-22 09:45:43 AM  

nopokerface: I have a GT-R. It is a blast to drive. There's no way I could shift as fast as it does, and I grew up driving "manuals".

/quotation marks because shifting with paddles is manual shifting, too.


if you can't stall it, it ain't a manual ..
 
2012-10-22 09:46:06 AM  

LoneWolf343: evoke: These thread are always interesting. You've got the elitists, versus the people who are insecure about their own capabilities: "Yes, I can't drive a manual, so what, don't you dare imply that I am not perfect!!"

I can drive a manual, and it is vastly overrated, especially when it comes to city driving.


Driving is overrated when it comes to city driving.
 
2012-10-22 09:46:38 AM  
I have driven manual transmission vehicles my entire life. My most recent new car is manual and it will be my last. I've had my clutches last in all other cars for 100k+ miles, but my most recent new car's clutch fried at month 13 with 6k miles on the odometer. I complained a few weeks after I bought it that the clutch wasn't disengaging and engaging properly, but the dealers said their mechanics thought it was fine.

Now I am out of a nice chunk of change to get this repaired because clutches are only covered for 12 months / 12k miles. Going to buy an automatic next time because they are covered under warranty for more than a year.
 
2012-10-22 09:48:36 AM  

browntimmy: Yeah, manual transmission is great for those situations which you'd like to, but never are, in. Unless you live in Bumblefark, Arkansas or do all your driving at 2am, driving is a farking chore.


I greatly disagree. I like driving. Even now that my DD is an automatic. My cars were manual, manual, and now auto. My next will be a manual. I also have two motorcycles. Driving is enjoyable. Driving a manual makes it more enjoyable. If you live where it snows it makes it safer too.

If you see driving as a chore, then stick to autos. All you care about is the destination. Which is fine. But some of us actively enjoy the journey as well.
 
2012-10-22 09:51:10 AM  

petec: if you can't stall it, it ain't a manual ..


I was not aware of this little known codicil to the manual transmission requirements canon.
 
2012-10-22 09:53:08 AM  

Monirae: I love my new manual Tacoma. I am one with my truck.


I feel the same way about my Frontier. One with the road, one with the truck.
 
2012-10-22 09:53:56 AM  
Moron author obviously has never driven a high-end stick on an Autobahn.
 
2012-10-22 09:56:28 AM  
I can understand how some people get hard ons about the cars they drive or how they drive them, but to me, a car is nothing more than a device to get me, and sometimes passengers and/or cargo, from point A to point B. Nothing more.
 
2012-10-22 10:03:45 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Aw, look... the people who are most likely overcompensating for some other shortcoming are coming out to talk about how they need a big stick in their hand to feel manly.

Manuals are for alright for racing, I guess. Otherwise, they're pointless.


You are a moron.
 
2012-10-22 10:07:13 AM  
Which type of driver is more likely to take their car to the dealer to replace light bulbs?
 
2012-10-22 10:07:54 AM  
Non synchronized "crash" gear boxes are the only true driving.
 
2012-10-22 10:08:22 AM  

ghare: NephilimNexus: Funny how all the author talks about is speed. Probably because he's trying to push a bias and doesn't want non-aligned facts being brought into the picture he's trying to paint.

Do I care about speed in my stick-shift ecobox? Heck no. I care about more control, better milage, and the fact that replacing a worn out clutch costs less than a tenth of the price as replacing a broken automatic transmission. That last one is particularly important: Clutch gone bad on a stick-shift? You're out $200, tops. Transmission go kaput on an automatic? May as well just go buy a new car - it'll be cheaper.

Know how I can tell you haven't replaced a clutch in 30 years? You're old and wrong.


Not having to replace a clutch for thirty years is a viable selling point.
 
2012-10-22 10:09:29 AM  
Do foreign manufacturers make cars with acceptable automatic transmissions? Both VW and Honda seem to suuuuck at it.
 
2012-10-22 10:10:23 AM  

incrdbil: Manual transmissions hold no advantage over automatics in performance.



You realize that statement is completely inaccurate, right?

The traditional "automatic" transmissions that are installed in your average commuter POS are significantly less efficient than a manual transmission.

Now, if you are talking about a DSG box, which is a computer controlled standard transmission, that is something different entirely.
 
2012-10-22 10:10:54 AM  

Big_Fat_Liar: Which type of driver is more likely to take their car to the dealer to replace light bulbs?


The automatic driver. The manual driver is too broke to f*ck with it.
 
2012-10-22 10:13:09 AM  

WhiskeyBoy: I can say that the flappy paddle is the way to go. But it has to be the real flappy paddle. Not the tiptronic (or whatever it's callled) flappy paddle. A real flappy paddle allows you to drop a gear when another automatic wouldn't let you do it for fear of hurting the car. \

Oh, and for God's sake everyone, learn to at least change a tire on your own. It's a necessary life-skill.

Mose: Alonjar: Oh whatever, you guys know what i meant... foot activated clutch while driving.

A lot of gripes manual drivers have against automatics are directly regarding the torque converter-planetary gearset combination and how it's controlled.

An F1 car transmission is closer to what people used to say was a manual transmission in that it has a clutch and a constant mesh gearbox, even though when moving, the clutch is computer controlled, the shifting is by wire and it has a sequential shift mechanism.

This is why I've given up on having an intelligent discussion on this topic with people who don't have at least a cursory understanding of the devices behind the firewall, under the floorboard or in the tunnel.




Well said!
 
2012-10-22 10:16:28 AM  
A manual trans is simple and (usually) cheaper than a automatic. There are no fluids/filters to change. No transmission coolers/radiators. Rarely break but if they do, they are easy to repair/replace. Best car would be a compact with a 4 cylinder engine, 4 speed manual trans and limited slip rear end.
That's my story and i'm sticking to it!
 
2012-10-22 10:17:43 AM  

ph0rk: Unfortunately, we have already reached the point where a mass market automatic transmission can surpass a manual for gas mileage, and race automatics (or manu-matics, or dual-clutch auto-magical faux manuals, etc) can out-shift someone who really knows what they're doing.

Manuals are slower than the machines, and will continue to be so in the future. Manuals are a bit of fun, but that's it, unfortunately. They're dying.


[www.blogcdn.com image 630x164]


Only in the Good Old US of A, here in Europe they account for 80% to 90% of the care market. Automatics are for the handicapped or old and feeble over here.
 
2012-10-22 10:21:09 AM  
I would love to learn how to drive a manual...I've had several people attempt to teach me and I just can't get it. I had my husband's '70 VW Beetle going pretty well around a parking lot, but it immediately stalled as i pulled out on the road. Same thing with my dad and brother's trucks when they tried to teach me. Embarrassing...I swear i'm not a terrible driver, just can't get the hang of manual.
 
2012-10-22 10:23:31 AM  
Kiwi, I know your out there, probably going through this thread just dying to put in your two cents, but we all know what happens next. So, here: How to drive a stick shift.
 
2012-10-22 10:27:11 AM  

Semi-Sane: I have driven manual transmission vehicles my entire life. My most recent new car is manual and it will be my last. I've had my clutches last in all other cars for 100k+ miles, but my most recent new car's clutch fried at month 13 with 6k miles on the odometer. I complained a few weeks after I bought it that the clutch wasn't disengaging and engaging properly, but the dealers said their mechanics thought it was fine.

Now I am out of a nice chunk of change to get this repaired because clutches are only covered for 12 months / 12k miles. Going to buy an automatic next time because they are covered under warranty for more than a year.


I had a Chevy that was 2 years out of warranty that had a problem with the paint finish. The whole car was repainted by Chevy. Looked great and sold it that same month.
 
2012-10-22 10:28:21 AM  

FourPetesake: I would love to learn how to drive a manual...I've had several people attempt to teach me and I just can't get it. I had my husband's '70 VW Beetle going pretty well around a parking lot, but it immediately stalled as i pulled out on the road. Same thing with my dad and brother's trucks when they tried to teach me. Embarrassing...I swear i'm not a terrible driver, just can't get the hang of manual.


Do you think any of us had the clutch mastered when we first got on the road? Driving stick is the only cure for stalling stick. Get a manual beater and drive it everywhere for as long as it holds up. If you're still struggling on flat ground after a year, _then_ you can worrying about not getting the hang of it.
 
2012-10-22 10:35:14 AM  

nopokerface: petec: if you can't stall it, it ain't a manual ..

I was not aware of this little known codicil to the manual transmission requirements canon.


You can stall a GT-R. I've done it at the road course in Vegas. That concrete pit lane is grippy.
 
2012-10-22 10:35:26 AM  

WhiskeyBoy: The paddle shift in the Ferrari is astonishingly good. But when it comes time to drive to the store, and back in to a parking spot, they are a serious irritation. In a race to reverse in a parking spot, a traditional manual will beat the flappy paddle all day.


Haha true story: The one time I was given a f430 to drive, I could not for the life of me figure out how to get it into reverse. Getting it into neutral was straight forward enough, and I knew that little lever LOOKed like it should put me into reverse... but I just wasnt willing to make a very expensive mistake due to retardedness, and the gentle pressure I was applying wasnt enough. I was too embarrassed to ask about it, so I purposely parked forward on an incline so I could just roll back out in neutral.

Never did share that with anyone until now.
 
2012-10-22 10:36:52 AM  

elkraf: A manual trans is simple and (usually) cheaper than a automatic. There are no fluids/filters to change. No transmission coolers/radiators. Rarely break but if they do, they are easy to repair/replace. Best car would be a compact with a 4 cylinder engine, 4 speed manual trans and limited slip rear end.
That's my story and i'm sticking to it!


LOLWUT?
 
2012-10-22 10:39:13 AM  
I prefer to have my hand on my lady than my own stick.
 
2012-10-22 10:39:42 AM  
Manual Transmission =\= Stick Shift.

A stick shift is an old method of transmission that happens to be manual. "Manual Transmission" means that the human driver choses the gear, not the automatic transmission computer. Seeing as how the human can actually put the current rev-level and speed in context with what is coming up on the racetrack, the human is in a bettter place to make that decision than a box in the undercarriage of the car.

As others have pointed out, the vehicle the dumbass author of the article referred to actually has a MANUAL transmission (human controlled flappy-paddles that direct the computer transmission controller to shift gears).
 
2012-10-22 10:42:38 AM  

rohar: You can stall a GT-R. I've done it at the road course in Vegas. That concrete pit lane is grippy.


I'd love to take mine on a track, but they are just dying to void the warranty, so I haven't.
 
2012-10-22 10:47:38 AM  
I am 6'8 and about 250 pounds. Every Manual vehicle any of my friends or family ever owned were such small things as Ford Rangers, Honda Civics, or random small hatch backs. I was already uncomfortable enough just sitting in those vehicles let alone trying to navigate an extra pedal without seizing up the wheel on my leg at the same time. I suffered through the size incompatibility just long enough to get the jist such that in an emergency (zombie apocalypse) I could get one going and keep it going.
 
2012-10-22 10:51:30 AM  
392Zaphod : My boss who only drives manual just had to replace her clutch after 70k miles and cost her about 1,500$. My automatic won't need that, and I have the extended warranty anyway up to about 100k miles.

It could be that she had a "friday afternoon" gearbox, but most likely she doesn't know how to operate it correctly. I wonder if she was professionally taught how to drive a manual?
I often see Americans writing things like "I taught myself to drive stick in a deserted parking lot" and "Manual gearbox clutches wear out within 100k miles".
 
2012-10-22 10:54:25 AM  
This guy probably thinks that being the pitcher doesn't make him gay and I have to deal with it.
 
2012-10-22 10:59:23 AM  
I'll be sure to take this bozo's article to heart if I ever decide to replace my commuter car with a race car...
 
2012-10-22 11:10:34 AM  

mrlewish: What your future transmission looks like.
[www.ctiautomation.net image 250x178]


Electric car owners: "What's a transmission?"
 
2012-10-22 11:12:17 AM  
Semi-automatic is the way to go. I live in the mountains and commute to the city. I love having control in the mountains, especially in snow, and I equally love not having to shift in rush hour traffic. Best of both worlds. I don't think I'll ever buy anything else.
 
2012-10-22 11:32:57 AM  
I see Subby woke up on the wrong side of Reality
 
2012-10-22 11:38:46 AM  

nopokerface: rohar: You can stall a GT-R. I've done it at the road course in Vegas. That concrete pit lane is grippy.

I'd love to take mine on a track, but they are just dying to void the warranty, so I haven't.


When I was in Vegas, I drove a loaner. Not my car, not my problem :)
 
2012-10-22 11:40:46 AM  

rohar: Not my car, not my problem :)


Now that would be a blast.
 
2012-10-22 11:43:15 AM  

Skarekrough: incrdbil: Manual transmissions hold no advantage over automatics in performance.

Bullshiat.

Five years ago I went looking for a Honda Element. I drove a half dozen of them, all barely had the power to get out of their own way.

Last one I drove was a stick shift. I was in a cold sweat merging onto a state highway from the dealers parking lot. By the time my test drive was over I couldn't get my wallet out fast enough.


well there's your problem. the last time you attempted to drive one was 5 years ago.

now we are at the point where 6 speed autos are the norm in cars (unless you buy Toyota), and 8 speed autos are hitting the premium segment. VW, Ford, and Hyundai offer dual-clutch transmissions.

the 8 speed automatic from ZF, has shown no acceleration or MPG penalty vs manuals in BMW or Audi models. It is also used by Bentley, Jaguar, and Land Rover......and will soon be offered across across Chrysler's models.
 
2012-10-22 11:52:33 AM  
I don't even know what this "flappy paddles" shiat is, but I do own a 77 Toyota truck with manual transmission.
 
2012-10-22 12:10:01 PM  
I sort of feel like anyone with an automatic doesn't get to complain about gas prices ever again. If you're concerned with fuel economy why did you deliberately choose a car which is less economical? Or, in the case of modern autos, if you're concerned with saving money why did you just spend $40k on a car? It's as logically consistent as eating everything you can possibly get your hands on and then complaining that what you're eating isn't healthy.

I'd also agree with the comment up there about the Gawker network being mostly sensationalistic garbage these days, and I don't even particularly disagree with the conclusion of the article.
 
2012-10-22 12:12:42 PM  

RockyMtnGirl: Semi-automatic is the way to go. I live in the mountains and commute to the city. I love having control in the mountains, especially in snow, and I equally love not having to shift in rush hour traffic. Best of both worlds. I don't think I'll ever buy anything else.


100% agree
 
2012-10-22 12:32:08 PM  
Driving a manual is fun for me, it's not for others. My girlfriend drives an auto and that's fine because it's not a chrysler product, therefore I don't have to rebuild the transmission all the time.

/jeep owner
 
2012-10-22 12:33:34 PM  

Some.Farkin.Guy: Driving a manual is fun for me, it's not for others. My girlfriend drives an auto and that's fine because it's not a chrysler product, therefore I don't have to rebuild the transmission all the time.

/jeep owner


Get the irony police, this one's above my pay grade.
 
2012-10-22 12:44:57 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.


It also doesn't provide the fun of, "pop starting," the vehicle on a hill or with your buddies pushing it when the battery or starter are hosed.
 
2012-10-22 12:45:58 PM  
The maintenance costs for a manual transmission are far far far lower than an automatic.
 
2012-10-22 12:50:38 PM  

Alonjar: Oh whatever, you guys know what i meant... foot activated clutch while driving.

An automatic clutch is still an automatic.. arguing semantics.


Can they stall it off the line and leaving the pits? Yes ..

Can manually working the clutch make a difference between winning and losing? Yes ..

your point .. fails
 
2012-10-22 01:08:36 PM  

Gdiguy: I kind of think it's just a matter of where you're driving to ask the question of "fun"

Driving around town stopping at traffic lights / stop signs, manual is kind of a pain in the ass (and especially if you're in an area with a lot of hills... I don't know how you could drive around San Francisco in a manual without being some sort of masochist)

However, I drove an ex gf's manual car from SF to LA, and I have to admit that it was much more fun than doing the same drive in an automatic. I'm sure it's partly just due to the increased activity involved, but I do agree that there's something about having to pay attention to the car that makes it more enjoyable on the highway.


Hills are not as much of a problem in newer manuals. They've come up with a solution to that in a lot of newer manual transmissions. We just got a '13 Jetta with a manual transmission, it has an anti-hill-roll thing in it. It's probably the easiest manual transmission I've ever driven, but it's still loads funner to drive than our other car which has an automatic in it.

Stop and go traffic is less of an issue if you're not humping the bumper of the car in front of you. I've driven a manual transmission in several large cities I've visited or lived in. Give a little space in front of you, maintain a fairly constant speed and you're going to have less leg burning clutch presses. Yes, people will take advantage, but you won't be wearing your leg or your brakes out (which makes this technique good for a stick or an automatic). 

I prefer manual transmissions. They're more control in all situations that you should have more control over. Downshifting for large slopes, slippery conditions and general driving.

Automatic transmissions are starting to make parity with fuel economy now, primarily because the manufacturers are finally putting similar numbers of gears in the automatic transmissions as they have had for the manual transmissions for years. Both our automatic transmission and manual transmission vehicles have five speed transmissions. The big difference is that the automatic transmission has a $700+ premium to buy one initially, and are much more expensive to replace or repair than the much simpler manual transmission.
 
2012-10-22 01:09:21 PM  

Claude Ballse:

If you can understand that, then you can understand how the automotive industry operates, and why it always has been that way. But more importantly, what's the big demographic as well that hates stick shifts to the point where they refuse to learn how to operate them?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 425x282]


Well, her and whidbey.
 
2012-10-22 01:17:20 PM  
Um... you auto guys realize there's a 5-10% penalty for rockin' the slushbox right?

Fer' instence: Your RX-8 6MT = 180whp / Your RX-8 Auto = 160whp

So you're paying more to get ____ ?
 
2012-10-22 01:18:19 PM  

Gdiguy:

Driving around town stopping at traffic lights / stop signs, manual is kind of a pain in the ass (and especially if you're in an area with a lot of hills... I don't know how you could drive around San Francisco in a manual without being some sort of masochist)



Well, I've been doing that for close to 20 years - it's really not as hard as you think.
In fact I've got 140k on my current clutch, though it will need to be replaced soonish.
 
2012-10-22 01:30:44 PM  

Threadslayer: Um... you auto guys realize there's a 5-10% penalty for rockin' the slushbox right?

Fer' instence: Your RX-8 6MT = 180whp / Your RX-8 Auto = 160whp

So you're paying more to get ____ ?


My car loses no horsepower between Manual or Automatic, your logic is flawed.
 
2012-10-22 01:49:06 PM  
I drive an old BMWX5 with a 5 speed manual. I would have bought a new Toyota Highlander, but they do not sell manual transmission Highlanders in North America, so I was told.
Also, thieves these days can't drive stick, so your car is less likely to get taken.
 
2012-10-22 02:16:20 PM  
So supposedly one of the new Mercedes, I think it's the E63, but I'm probably wrong, has a torque converter that feels like a DSG. Now that I'd like to try.
 
2012-10-22 02:23:02 PM  
One reason autos are superior to manuals: It's way easier to smoke a bowl in an automatic.
 
2012-10-22 02:25:16 PM  
thread tl;dnr

Has anyone pointed out that when you drive a manual your a more aware and attentive driver? You have so many things you have to keep under control if you stop paying attention you could stall out or worse...
 
2012-10-22 02:38:59 PM  
Learn how to drive a real car, Nancy.
 
2012-10-22 02:45:30 PM  

nopokerface: Some.Farkin.Guy: Driving a manual is fun for me, it's not for others. My girlfriend drives an auto and that's fine because it's not a chrysler product, therefore I don't have to rebuild the transmission all the time.

/jeep owner

Get the irony police, this one's above my pay grade.


Chrysler makes junky auto transmissions, this is a fact. It's hard to fark up a manual transmission, such as what's in my jeep. Maybe I didn't lay down enough snark in that last comment. The auto version of my vehicle has really bad overheating issues and is only a 3 speed. I love my 6 speed manual gearbox, especially when on a hill descent in 4WD low.
 
2012-10-22 02:46:35 PM  

Some.Farkin.Guy: Chrysler makes junky auto transmissions, this is a fact.

 
2012-10-22 02:48:22 PM  
I meant to include the fact that the one I had tried to kill me several times.
 
2012-10-22 03:00:33 PM  

nopokerface: I meant to include the fact that the one I had tried to kill me several times.


I used to have a sebring in auto. That car was a death trap. Every time it shifted it jerked the whole vehicle forward. The Chrysler and Dodge vans are even worse.
 
2012-10-22 03:05:52 PM  

Some.Farkin.Guy: nopokerface: I meant to include the fact that the one I had tried to kill me several times.

I used to have a sebring in auto. That car was a death trap. Every time it shifted it jerked the whole vehicle forward. The Chrysler and Dodge vans are even worse.


I had a van, it had a tendency to go completely insane at about 65-70mph in cruise control. It would downshift into 1st gear. Wipers and washer fluid came on on their own, steering wheel locked up....good times.
 
2012-10-22 03:12:14 PM  

KrispyKritter:
Screw AAA

Me and Mrs.Kritter have had nothing shy of exemplary service and response from AAA for the 4-5 years we've had our Premium memberships. I'm sorry to hear you were inconvenienced.

--- I prefer manual trans. I feel it is more fun and I have more control over the vehicle at all times.


Side note: AAA will not send fuel if you drive a diesel. Gas, sure, they'll send it out if you run out. A diesel, all they'll do is offer to tow you somewhere.
 
2012-10-22 03:13:49 PM  

gsmphoto: I drive an old BMWX5 with a 5 speed manual. I would have bought a new Toyota Highlander, but they do not sell manual transmission Highlanders in North America, so I was told.
Also, thieves these days can't drive stick, so your car is less likely to get taken.


Apparently Murkins are such wusses now that it is no longer possible to buy a Ferrari in the United States with a manual transmission.
 
2012-10-22 03:17:23 PM  

TheTurtle: Apparently Murkins are such wusses now that it is no longer possible to buy a Ferrari in the United States with a manual transmission.


Where did you hear this? It isn't true.

We tend not to buy them because they are pieces of sh*t, not because of their daunting manual trannies.

/How many new Ferrari models even offer a clutch pedal option?
 
2012-10-22 03:20:05 PM  

FTDA: i upped my meds-up yours: A man needs to constantly meet and master risk. Risk like that of stalling out at a red light or backing into a lamp post. An automatic never provides these things.

It also doesn't provide the fun of, "pop starting," the vehicle on a hill or with your buddies pushing it when the battery or starter are hosed.


The older automatics actually could be pop-started, but we're talking really old, like 1950s/60s PowerGlides and TorqueFlites. They had a rear pump that could spin up enough pressure to get things going. Newer ones, it is for all practical purposes impossible. The intertubes are laden with claims of people who insist they've done it, I don't believe most of them.
 
2012-10-22 03:23:44 PM  

nopokerface: TheTurtle: Apparently Murkins are such wusses now that it is no longer possible to buy a Ferrari in the United States with a manual transmission.

Where did you hear this? It isn't true.

We tend not to buy them because they are pieces of sh*t, not because of their daunting manual trannies.

/How many new Ferrari models even offer a clutch pedal option?


Automobile Magazine reported on this a few months ago
.
 
2012-10-22 03:29:26 PM  

nopokerface: Some.Farkin.Guy: nopokerface: I meant to include the fact that the one I had tried to kill me several times.

I used to have a sebring in auto. That car was a death trap. Every time it shifted it jerked the whole vehicle forward. The Chrysler and Dodge vans are even worse.

I had a van, it had a tendency to go completely insane at about 65-70mph in cruise control. It would downshift into 1st gear. Wipers and washer fluid came on on their own, steering wheel locked up....good times.


You're bringing back those awful memories, but at least mine didn't lock the steering on me. I would have junked it the first time it did that.
 
2012-10-22 03:31:11 PM  

TheTurtle: Automobile Magazine reported on this a few months ago.


Ferrari did away with it. I don't think that was US specific. The test drive in that article is in Marinello.
 
2012-10-22 03:32:02 PM  

Some.Farkin.Guy: I would have junked it the first time it did that.


I ended up making Chrysler take it back. They gutted the whole inside trying to figure out the problem and couldn't.
 
2012-10-22 03:32:47 PM  
My Dodge 3500 has an automatic, but 4th and 5th are on a clutch. I'm so farking confused.
 
2012-10-22 03:59:18 PM  
Take me to Europe and I'll want a manual. Roads are winding and full of roundabouts. It's a pleasure to drive.

Take me to North America and I'll want an automatic. Traffic lights and urban bumper-to-bumper traffic makes me want to say "fark off" and drive by simply pressing the brake pedal repeatedly.
 
2012-10-22 04:14:05 PM  

392Zaphod: My car loses no horsepower between Manual or Automatic, your logic is flawed.


Unless you've spent an assload of money souping up the automatic or you're confusing a clutchless manual with an automatic like our dear friend the article writer, yes, yes it does. Automatics are less efficient at moving the power from the motor to the wheels so you have less usable power on top of a heavier unit and you lose even more efficiency as it gets hot (hence the need for things like deeper pans and better pumps for heavy duty towing).

Your engine still makes the same power, but your car as a whole certainly has less to use by the time it gets to the wheels, and that's all that really matters. You could put a 1000 hp motor in a car, if it's only getting 100hp to the wheels, it only has 100hp.
 
2012-10-22 04:29:38 PM  
i rented a mustang not that long ago. base model. V6 with auto. it was one of the worst driving experiences of my life. when you stepped on the gas, it literally took a second-and-a-half before the car lurched forward. it was dangerously unresponsive. i can't imagine driving on in LA, trying to merge onto the freeway from those crazy-short onramps. you'd be killed!
 
2012-10-22 06:16:32 PM  
Surely a replacement can be found for this phallic stick shift obsession...
 
2012-10-22 09:12:57 PM  

Threadslayer: Um... you auto guys realize there's a 5-10% penalty for rockin' the slushbox right?


Some people drive cars made after 1975.
 
2012-10-22 09:53:31 PM  
I learned to drive in a manual...76 Toyota Celica. I can't even describe how much I loved driving that car when I finally got my license. I drove nothing but sticks until 2004 when I bought my first automatic and haven't owned a manual since. This post is stupid I'm done typing it.
 
2012-10-22 10:48:25 PM  

crab66: Threadslayer: Um... you auto guys realize there's a 5-10% penalty for rockin' the slushbox right?

Some people drive cars made after 1975.


There's a method of measuring net power output for a vehicle called a "dyno".
You strap the wheels to a roller and see how much work gets done.

Manual transmission vehicles, including those made after 1975, tend to lose less power on the way to the wheels.
 
2012-10-23 02:52:12 AM  

Shurikane: to Europe and I'll want a manual. Roads are winding and full of roundabouts. It's a pleasure to drive.

Take me to North America and I'll want an automatic. Traffic lights and urban bumper-to-bumper traffic makes me want to say "fark off" and drive by simply pressing the brake pedal repeatedly.


I take it you've never been here?
www.english.rfi.fr 

www.lefigaro.fr
 
2012-10-23 03:51:47 AM  
"...you´ve got the gas pedal for the right foot and the other pedal for the left foot....now how do you expect me to work with the pedal in the middle?"
 
2012-10-23 05:45:30 AM  

maxwellton: "...you´ve got the gas pedal for the right foot and the other pedal for the left foot....now how do you expect me to work with the pedal in the middle?"


Which explains Montreal.
 
2012-10-23 07:12:31 AM  

TenJed_77:
I take it you've never been here?


I was lucky enough not to have to work in Paris. When I went to Europe, it was mostly to work in the Nantes region and off the city outskirts, so I was spared a good deal of traffic.
 
2012-10-23 08:51:42 AM  

Shurikane: TenJed_77:
I take it you've never been here?

I was lucky enough not to have to work in Paris. When I went to Europe, it was mostly to work in the Nantes region and off the city outskirts, so I was spared a good deal of traffic.


Ok, that makes a bit more sense then.
 
2012-10-23 09:23:48 AM  
pry my manual transmission from my cold dead hands. i am not a car person, i am a driver. i can't tell one expensive car from the other, but the activity of driving is the perfect amount of passive physical activity for legs arms and eyes, and demand for mental attention for my daydreaming ass. man having conquered his environment w/ a/c music n comfy seats doesn't hurt. highway, city, mountain, snow, it's all good to me.

i fear people sacrificing their right to drive to computerized driving in the future more than just losing manual trans =p conquor the highway deathtoll with algorythms followed by being treated like a bike on a highway if you manually control.
 
2012-10-23 09:58:08 AM  
I know this thread is probably dead, but what all of you are forgetting is that this debate is pointless. Both automagic and manual transmissions are obsolete. CVT is the wave of the future. Who needs gears?
 
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