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(Huffington Post)   Some woman concerned that the LHC will create a black hole which could consume the Earth has lost her court appeal, still contends that this theory, which belongs to her, is thin at one end and thicker in the middle   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 47
    More: Amusing, LHC, black holes, Earth, Argonne National Laboratory, Mars, Geological Society of America, Piltdown Man, Nuclear Physics  
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2475 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Oct 2012 at 3:40 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-21 01:56:34 PM  
And much like Anne Elk, she is correct.

It's just that the chance is so small that it really isn't a concern.

But it is possible.

/a few courses short of my GED in Physics, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
 
2012-10-21 03:46:49 PM  
I came for a planet devouring black hole and all i got was this lousy Higgs boson.
 
2012-10-21 03:47:35 PM  
I'm no gravitationologist, but wouldn't the LHC make a really, really tiny black hole? And wouldn't a really, really tiny black hole have the same amount of gravitational pull at, say, three feet, that the small number of atoms used to make it would have otherwise made? And besides all that, wouldn't it only last for a short period of time before it evaporated as radiation anyway?
 
2012-10-21 03:49:32 PM  
Taniwha
 
2012-10-21 03:53:00 PM  
Obligatory

Also, wouldn't any potential black holes created by this thing be so small that they'd collapse almost immediately?
 
2012-10-21 03:59:13 PM  

Mister Peejay: I'm no gravitationologist, but wouldn't the LHC make a really, really tiny black hole? And wouldn't a really, really tiny black hole have the same amount of gravitational pull at, say, three feet, that the small number of atoms used to make it would have otherwise made? And besides all that, wouldn't it only last for a short period of time before it evaporated as radiation anyway?


To be fair, when astrophysicists say "a short time", they mean like 3 billion years or something.
 
2012-10-21 04:05:47 PM  

Mister Peejay: I'm no gravitationologist, but wouldn't the LHC make a really, really tiny black hole? And wouldn't a really, really tiny black hole have the same amount of gravitational pull at, say, three feet, that the small number of atoms used to make it would have otherwise made? And besides all that, wouldn't it only last for a short period of time before it evaporated as radiation anyway?


No.

It has already happened. We are on the other side now. The researchers are trying to get us home.

/ziggy!
 
2012-10-21 04:08:18 PM  
I used to believe what the scientists say about the large hadron. Then I was watching Ancient Aliens, and Tsoukalos (the one you all so callously post pictures as the "I'm not saying it's aliens" guy) pointed out that the collider and the Mayan calendar look EXACTLY THE SAME. One predicted the end of the world, and one has the ability to bring it about. Go ahead and keep you heads in the sand.

/No, he really said that.
//I don't think they'll be able to squeeze out a 4th season
 
2012-10-21 04:14:14 PM  
Simpsons Did It....
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-21 04:14:25 PM  

Mister Peejay: I'm no gravitationologist, but wouldn't the LHC make a really, really tiny black hole? And wouldn't a really, really tiny black hole have the same amount of gravitational pull at, say, three feet, that the small number of atoms used to make it would have otherwise made? And besides all that, wouldn't it only last for a short period of time before it evaporated as radiation anyway?


Yes, yes, and very probably. The evaporation bit is a widely-accepted and well-supported theory, but there's a lack of direct evidence and we already know that current physics breaks down somewhere when you try to combine general relativity and quantum mechanics at that scale. Somehow ending up with a stable black hole is plausible enough that you could use it as a plot element in a science-fiction story, but it's not something to worry about in the real world.
 
2012-10-21 04:20:50 PM  
Let's put it this way: cosmic ray collisions in the upper atmosphere exceed the energies used in the LHC. So if the LHC were going to produce a micro-black hole that kills us all, we'd already be dead.
 
2012-10-21 04:26:11 PM  

t3knomanser: Let's put it this way: cosmic ray collisions in the upper atmosphere exceed the energies used in the LHC. So if the LHC were going to produce a micro-black hole that kills us all, we'd already be dead.


shhh, normal people dont need to know that the upper atmosphear is continually creating and destroying anitmatter, it would drive them insane.... becasue star trek.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-21 04:27:21 PM  
In the 1990s people worried that Brookhaven would destroy the Earth, or possibly the universe. Seriously, there was a theory that it would destroy the whole universe by starting a phase transition in the vacuum. There were lawsuits trying to stop high energy particle collisions. Judge Richard Posner discussed the legal and policy implications in his book Catastrophe.
 
2012-10-21 04:35:22 PM  

Tor_Eckman: And much like Anne Elk, she is correct.

It's just that the chance is so small that it really isn't a concern.

But it is possible.

/a few courses short of my GED in Physics, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong


No, she isn't really correct at all.

The collider WILL create mini black holes.

Cosmic ray particles do the same thing when they collide with atoms in our atmosphere.

The black holes are so tiny with so little energy that they evaporate almost instantly.
 
2012-10-21 04:36:36 PM  

bobtheallmighty: t3knomanser: Let's put it this way: cosmic ray collisions in the upper atmosphere exceed the energies used in the LHC. So if the LHC were going to produce a micro-black hole that kills us all, we'd already be dead.

shhh, normal people dont need to know that the upper atmosphear is continually creating and destroying anitmatter, it would drive them insane.... becasue star trek.


Well thankfully the U.S. Government employs inverse tachyon beams to reverse the phase damage.
 
2012-10-21 05:17:05 PM  
A black hole capable of destroying Earth would need far more mass than exists on Earth.
 
2012-10-21 05:24:11 PM  

Snapper Carr: Obligatory

Also, wouldn't any potential black holes created by this thing be so small that they'd collapse almost immediately?


Ah, but if it collapsed, wouldn't that make it more dense?
 
2012-10-21 05:27:00 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: bobtheallmighty: t3knomanser: Let's put it this way: cosmic ray collisions in the upper atmosphere exceed the energies used in the LHC. So if the LHC were going to produce a micro-black hole that kills us all, we'd already be dead.

shhh, normal people dont need to know that the upper atmosphear is continually creating and destroying anitmatter, it would drive them insane.... becasue star trek.

Well thankfully the U.S. Government employs inverse tachyon beams to reverse the phase damage.


And I say..
Bounce a graviton particle beam
Off the main deflector dish,
That's the way we do things, lad!
We're making shiat up as we wish.
The klingons and the romulans
are no threat to us,
Cause if we find we're in a bind,
we just make some shiat up
 
2012-10-21 05:45:55 PM  

LordOfThePings: Snapper Carr: Obligatory

Also, wouldn't any potential black holes created by this thing be so small that they'd collapse almost immediately?

Ah, but if it collapsed, wouldn't that make it more dense?


Black holes, by definition, cannot collapse. But they can radiate away to nothing, and all small blackholes are thought to do so, and very rapidly as well. The micro-black holes would not grow fast enough to stabilize. They would vanish as soon as they were detected, if that.
 
2012-10-21 05:59:32 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Tor_Eckman: And much like Anne Elk, she is correct.

It's just that the chance is so small that it really isn't a concern.

But it is possible.

/a few courses short of my GED in Physics, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

No, she isn't really correct at all.

The collider WILL create mini black holes.

Cosmic ray particles do the same thing when they collide with atoms in our atmosphere.

The black holes are so tiny with so little energy that they evaporate almost instantly.


Yeah, I think I remember years ago before the thing was operating that a judge asked one of the scientists if there was any chance of something catastrophic happening and he said that there was an infinitesimal chance. The judge replied that being that the consequences would be so dire they had better investigate just how infinitesimal. I guess they worked it out since then.
 
2012-10-21 06:02:01 PM  

Tor_Eckman: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Tor_Eckman: And much like Anne Elk, she is correct.

It's just that the chance is so small that it really isn't a concern.

But it is possible.

/a few courses short of my GED in Physics, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

No, she isn't really correct at all.

The collider WILL create mini black holes.

Cosmic ray particles do the same thing when they collide with atoms in our atmosphere.

The black holes are so tiny with so little energy that they evaporate almost instantly.

Yeah, I think I remember years ago before the thing was operating that a judge asked one of the scientists if there was any chance of something catastrophic happening and he said that there was an infinitesimal chance. The judge replied that being that the consequences would be so dire they had better investigate just how infinitesimal. I guess they worked it out since then.


The chances are 0 for extremely small values of 0
 
2012-10-21 06:16:35 PM  
The more you know.

So please, enough. Think about what a black hole is. Does it sound plausible that here on Earth, we could create a black hole massive enough to destroy the Earth? How? Where would the matter come from? We're talking about taking something the size of the Sun and compressing it down to the size of a basketball. It doesn't even pass the sniff test.
 
2012-10-21 06:41:44 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Tor_Eckman: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Tor_Eckman: And much like Anne Elk, she is correct.

It's just that the chance is so small that it really isn't a concern.

But it is possible.

/a few courses short of my GED in Physics, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

No, she isn't really correct at all.

The collider WILL create mini black holes.

Cosmic ray particles do the same thing when they collide with atoms in our atmosphere.

The black holes are so tiny with so little energy that they evaporate almost instantly.

Yeah, I think I remember years ago before the thing was operating that a judge asked one of the scientists if there was any chance of something catastrophic happening and he said that there was an infinitesimal chance. The judge replied that being that the consequences would be so dire they had better investigate just how infinitesimal. I guess they worked it out since then.

The chances are 0 for extremely small values of 0


The problem is that an answer a scientist gives for "is it possible" is not the answer your average schmuck would give for "could it happen".

A lotta shiat's possible. That doesn't mean it could happen. I'll give you an example. It's possible for the Cleveland Browns to win next year's Superbowl - all they gotta do is win every game they play next year. shiat, on a cosmic scale it's HIGHLY LIKELY compared to, say, the Earth to suffer rapid and severe volcanic eruptions that wreak havoc on our magnetic field, altering how much radiation hits the earth and killing most wildlife.

That doesn't mean it could happen.
 
2012-10-21 07:06:49 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: Taniwha


Zoos on the moon!
Link
 
2012-10-21 07:13:43 PM  

karmachameleon: The more you know.

So please, enough. Think about what a black hole is. Does it sound plausible that here on Earth, we could create a black hole massive enough to destroy the Earth? How? Where would the matter come from? We're talking about taking something the size of the Sun and compressing it down to the size of a basketball. It doesn't even pass the sniff test.


Well, as mentioned above, the Simpson's did it. So...
 
2012-10-21 08:15:46 PM  

ZAZ: In the 1990s people worried that Brookhaven would destroy the Earth, or possibly the universe. Seriously, there was a theory that it would destroy the whole universe by starting a phase transition in the vacuum. There were lawsuits trying to stop high energy particle collisions. Judge Richard Posner discussed the legal and policy implications in his book Catastrophe.


Ah, they were concerned we were living in a false vacuum and such a transition could trigger a collapse?
 
2012-10-21 08:28:37 PM  
Eventually these idiots will win an anti-physics lawsuit and require that all research funds be put into human immortality.
 
2012-10-21 09:00:20 PM  

evilmrsock:
The problem is that an answer a scientist gives for "is it possible" is not the answer your average schmuck would give for "could it happen".

A lotta shiat's possible. That doesn't mean it could happen. I'll give you an example. It's possible for the Cleveland Browns to win next year's Superbowl - all they gotta do is win every game they play next year. shiat, on a cosmic scale it's HIGHLY LIKELY compared to, say, the Earth to suffer rapid and severe volcanic eruptions that wreak havoc on our magnetic field, altering how much radiation hits the earth and killing most wildlife.

That doesn't mean it could happen.


As a Cleveland native who remembers (vividly) eating dog bones in the 80's during the playoffs, as well as damn near everything else...

That's a pretty good way of putting it.

/"sooo..... there's a chance!"
 
2012-10-21 09:02:07 PM  

BolloxReader: Eventually these idiots will win an anti-physics lawsuit and require that all research funds be put into human immortality.


The irony: Immortality requires the use of micro black holes.
 
2012-10-21 09:16:04 PM  
More likely a big bang than a black hole...
 
2012-10-21 09:59:34 PM  
www.goodshowsir.co.uk

James P. Hogan did this in 1980.
 
2012-10-21 10:13:22 PM  

Mister Peejay: BolloxReader: Eventually these idiots will win an anti-physics lawsuit and require that all research funds be put into human immortality.

The irony: Immortality requires the use of micro black holes.


Don't tell QA that mico black holes are impossible. It'll kill him.
 
2012-10-22 12:52:04 AM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Mister Peejay: BolloxReader: Eventually these idiots will win an anti-physics lawsuit and require that all research funds be put into human immortality.

The irony: Immortality requires the use of micro black holes.

Don't tell QA that mico black holes are impossible. It'll kill him.


Tell him! Tell him!

born_yesterday
I used to believe what the scientists say about the large hadron. Then I was watching Ancient Aliens, and Tsoukalos (the one you all so callously post pictures as the "I'm not saying it's aliens" guy) pointed out that the collider and the Mayan calendar look EXACTLY THE SAME. One predicted the end of the world, and one has the ability to bring it about. Go ahead and keep you heads in the sand.

Crap like that is why I started this
 
2012-10-22 03:25:37 AM  

Tor_Eckman: /a few courses short of my GED in Physics, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong


Consider that cosmic rays can be much more energetic than the particals accelerated in supercolliders, and the entire solar system has been bathed in these for 5 billion years. And not only are the elements of the solar system here, there are no moon massed or larger black holes orbiting various bodies. So you have an observed 5 billion year history with no such predicted catastropic effects. Now I guess we can't say for certain that something catastrophic won't happen if we run a bunch of these flat out for 10 trillion years (yet), but I like our odds, and our star has other ideas anyway.
 
2012-10-22 08:16:12 AM  
And thin again at the far end.
 
2012-10-22 08:47:02 AM  
*ahem*
 
2012-10-22 09:26:29 AM  
These idiot kooks are suing over the wrong things.

She shouldn't have sued over the danger of black holes; she should have sued over the danger of a resonance cascade.
 
2012-10-22 09:30:27 AM  

Tor_Eckman: And much like Anne Elk, she is correct.

It's just that the chance is so small that it really isn't a concern.

But it is possible.

/a few courses short of my GED in Physics, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong


It is about the same chance as a black hole of similar size just appearing due to quantum effects. Mostly anything is possible but when you go larger than a couple of virtual particles it all becomes very unlikely.
 
2012-10-22 09:39:38 AM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: *ahem*


*AHEM*
 
2012-10-22 09:58:37 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

img.perezhilton.com

This lady has been reading too many of these
 
2012-10-22 09:59:13 AM  

Snapper Carr: Also, wouldn't any potential black holes created by this thing be so small that they'd collapse almost immediately?

be so mighty, as to lay low the mountians of the eeearrttthh"

/no
 
2012-10-22 11:53:36 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: The collider WILL create mini black holes.
Cosmic ray particles do the same thing when they collide with atoms in our atmosphere.


We have no idea whether the LHC will, or cosmic rays do, create miniature black holes. That only happens in very speculative theories of physics beyond the Standard Model, which may well be wrong.
 
2012-10-22 12:30:06 PM  
its a win-win if black holes are not produced they were right
and if a black hole is produced no one will know!!
 
2012-10-22 06:48:38 PM  

Bondith: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Mister Peejay: BolloxReader: Eventually these idiots will win an anti-physics lawsuit and require that all research funds be put into human immortality.

The irony: Immortality requires the use of micro black holes.

Don't tell QA that mico black holes are impossible. It'll kill him.

Tell him! Tell him!

born_yesterday
I used to believe what the scientists say about the large hadron. Then I was watching Ancient Aliens, and Tsoukalos (the one you all so callously post pictures as the "I'm not saying it's aliens" guy) pointed out that the collider and the Mayan calendar look EXACTLY THE SAME. One predicted the end of the world, and one has the ability to bring it about. Go ahead and keep you heads in the sand.

Crap like that is why I started this


Crap, that's the sort of thing I want to do, with the job I want to have: Be the next bill nye. FRIG!

We must have a PHYSICS FIGHT TO THE DEATH. (... Or alternatively, if you are not a physicist, or are in a different field of physics, potential teamup?)
(That said, any tips on getting started, youtube wise/concept wise? Was thinking at starting with a "Misconceptions in Science" video...)
 
2012-10-22 07:51:09 PM  

Felgraf: Bondith: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Mister Peejay: BolloxReader: Eventually these idiots will win an anti-physics lawsuit and require that all research funds be put into human immortality.

The irony: Immortality requires the use of micro black holes.

Don't tell QA that mico black holes are impossible. It'll kill him.

Tell him! Tell him!

born_yesterday
I used to believe what the scientists say about the large hadron. Then I was watching Ancient Aliens, and Tsoukalos (the one you all so callously post pictures as the "I'm not saying it's aliens" guy) pointed out that the collider and the Mayan calendar look EXACTLY THE SAME. One predicted the end of the world, and one has the ability to bring it about. Go ahead and keep you heads in the sand.

Crap like that is why I started this

Crap, that's the sort of thing I want to do, with the job I want to have: Be the next bill nye. FRIG!

We must have a PHYSICS FIGHT TO THE DEATH. (... Or alternatively, if you are not a physicist, or are in a different field of physics, potential teamup?)
(That said, any tips on getting started, youtube wise/concept wise? Was thinking at starting with a "Misconceptions in Science" video...)


The advice I got from the Produce of Quirks and Quarks (and CBC Radio science show) was simply to start writing and putting stuff on the web. Just up and do it.

I'm a chemist (inorganic PhD, nano-Masters - I've seen you talk about trying to make nanoparticles from inadequate references) by training with amateur interest in astronomy. Physics scares me a little. I've told David Morgan-Mar of Irregular Webcomic that he can be my Physics go-to guy (I'm gonna crib his Rainbows annotation later for my next video), but there's room for two if you want to do a guest spot. As it stands, any sort of social-media pimpage is appreciated (muttermuttermuttergoddamnslashdotmutter)
 
2012-10-24 04:20:11 AM  
I remember I read a story set near the end of the world where someone made a small black hole in a lab and dropped it and it was falling through the earth internally on a sort of orbit eating a tunnel as it went and hollowing out the earth bit by bit and everyone was waiting for the earth to deflate and be swallowed by the mini hole which would then orbit the sun.

We need a multi billion pound telescope to search for evidence of this fiction story out there in the stars...
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-24 08:22:57 AM  
dready zim

Larry Niven's short stories "The Hole Man" and "Wrong Way Street" are similar. Honorable mention David Brin's Earth (not his best, but entertaining when I had more time to read his bloated books).
 
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