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(Press TV)   Tinfoil hats are already fluttering with conspiracy theories of Obama's loss in the not yet held election   (presstv.com) divider line 211
    More: Interesting, obama, Romney family, voting machines, October Surprise, Financial District, election night, equity funds, American Election  
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3261 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Oct 2012 at 2:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-21 11:39:28 AM
Hey listen trollmitter, TFA is factual.
 
2012-10-21 11:47:08 AM
while there have been some silly business with the polls....I've been out on the campaign trail in my local area and I can say I haven't seen any evidence of fraud on the part of the GOP. well, at least in my area anyways. In fact I haven't seen the GOP out there at all. plenty of signs but no door to door canvassing and no phone banks.

there was one questionable incident that I can verify I've seen with my own eyes - in the black neighborhoods there have been GOP flyers being posted with incorrect information about Pennsylvania's voter ID law. someone in the GOP (or who's leaning GOP) has been pushing flyers that say the voter ID law is still in effect. this is untrue, since the courts have suspended the law until after the current election is over. so either the GOP is ill informed...or they're playing stupid on purpose. either way it's scummy behavior.

but that's the only thing I can say i've seen done with my own eyes. if there's any other funny bidness going on, I haven't seen any evidence of it.
 
2012-10-21 11:49:37 AM
While I'm a big skeptic of the whole "hacked voting machine" conspiracy theory, there is little doubt that the GOP has taken the position that since they can't win by simply counting votes, that voter suppression is the way to go.
 
2012-10-21 11:55:44 AM
No matter what Republicans say, voting is a right, not a crime.
 
2012-10-21 11:58:56 AM

Delay: No matter what Republicans say, voting is a right, not a crime.


Only if you're not a white male landowner.
 
2012-10-21 12:00:11 PM

Dinki: While I'm a big skeptic of the whole "hacked voting machine" conspiracy theory, there is little doubt that the GOP has taken the position that since they can't win by simply counting votes, that voter suppression is the way to go.


well....I've seen evidence that the GOP is putting out incorrect information, but nothing more than that. the assumption is that they're deliberately misinforming minority voters but I couldn't prove it.
 
2012-10-21 12:03:14 PM
It will be a close election. Both sides will cry fraud.

I want a 269 tie where the house voted in Romney and the Senate votes in Biden as Veep.
 
2012-10-21 12:03:24 PM

Weaver95: Dinki: While I'm a big skeptic of the whole "hacked voting machine" conspiracy theory, there is little doubt that the GOP has taken the position that since they can't win by simply counting votes, that voter suppression is the way to go.

well....I've seen evidence that the GOP is putting out incorrect information, but nothing more than that. the assumption is that they're deliberately misinforming minority voters but I couldn't prove it.


There's also the numerous voter ID laws being pushed, the gerrymandering of districts to favor republicans, and the link between Bain Capital and voting machines in swing states.
 
2012-10-21 12:04:31 PM
Can you republicans put down the farking partisan bullshiat for two seconds and honestly say that there's nothing shady about Romney's son buying out voting machines in a swing state? If you saw that in a comedy movie you would yell bullshiat.
 
2012-10-21 12:05:54 PM

RedPhoenix122:
There's also the numerous voter ID laws being pushed, the gerrymandering of districts to favor republicans, and the link between Bain Capital and voting machines in swing states.


As despicable as that is, it's legal.
 
2012-10-21 12:11:59 PM

Mugato: Can you republicans put down the farking partisan bullshiat for two seconds and honestly say that there's nothing shady about Romney's son buying out voting machines in a swing state?


No.

Mugato: If you saw that in a comedy movie you would yell bullshiat.


If Michele bought a similar amount, the right would start killing people.
 
2012-10-21 12:12:45 PM

Weaver95: RedPhoenix122:
There's also the numerous voter ID laws being pushed, the gerrymandering of districts to favor republicans, and the link between Bain Capital and voting machines in swing states.

As despicable as that is, it's legal.


Oh, I know, but it still evidence of voter suppression. I also forgot to mention the multiple incidents of people throwing away voter registration forms.
 
2012-10-21 12:20:16 PM

RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: RedPhoenix122:
There's also the numerous voter ID laws being pushed, the gerrymandering of districts to favor republicans, and the link between Bain Capital and voting machines in swing states.

As despicable as that is, it's legal.

Oh, I know, but it still evidence of voter suppression. I also forgot to mention the multiple incidents of people throwing away voter registration forms.


now - throwing away voter reg forms is highly illegal, and we've got at least ONE documented case of it happening this year. if there's more, or if it shows up that it's part of a larger/organized effort to disenfranchise voters then we've got a very big problem.

I have to admit, i'm a bit concerned. we're out there pushing the vote hard: phone banking, knocking on doors, running social media sites and doing all the things we're supposed to do to get someone elected. But the Republicans aren't pushing as hard. we're not seeing them out there organizing anywhere near the level we are. there's some phone banking going on but nobody is knocking on doors like we are. And we would have seen them by now. our teams have been all over the place. we even managed to get people to knock on doors FOR DEMOCRATS in Perry county...which is redneck territory. But we're not seeing GOP types out there knocking on doors. we've seen signs everywhere though. professional ones, big and small. them things cost some bucks too, lemme tell ya. so i'm thinking the GOP has decided to go with TV ads and signs, at least for this phase of the campaign. They're coming down to the wire though and if they decide to only push on the last week prior to the election then they're going to find we've been there first and talking to people for a while now.
 
2012-10-21 12:26:23 PM

Mugato: Can you republicans put down the farking partisan bullshiat for two seconds and honestly say that there's nothing shady about Romney's son buying out voting machines in a swing state? If you saw that in a comedy movie you would yell bullshiat.


The same son, Tagg, when asked what he wanted to do at the debate, "Well, jump out of your seat and you want to rush down to the debate stage and take a swing at him. But you know, you can't do that because - well, first, 'cause there's a lot of Secret Service between you and him."

Republicans have done everything they can do to suppress Democrats vote. The have rigged voting hours, attempted to have poll workers "mistakes" invalidate votes (Ohio), purged voter lists and now this. As Tagg Romney says, Republicans would physically do more illegal stuff, except it might them put themselves in danger.
 
2012-10-21 12:32:30 PM

Delay: Mugato: Can you republicans put down the farking partisan bullshiat for two seconds and honestly say that there's nothing shady about Romney's son buying out voting machines in a swing state? If you saw that in a comedy movie you would yell bullshiat.

The same son, Tagg, when asked what he wanted to do at the debate, "Well, jump out of your seat and you want to rush down to the debate stage and take a swing at him. But you know, you can't do that because - well, first, 'cause there's a lot of Secret Service between you and him."

Republicans have done everything they can do to suppress Democrats vote. The have rigged voting hours, attempted to have poll workers "mistakes" invalidate votes (Ohio), purged voter lists and now this. As Tagg Romney says, Republicans would physically do more illegal stuff, except it might them put themselves in danger.


I think what bothers me most about team Romney is the smug attitude of entitlement. Romney seems to believe that he should be president because he's rich and he wants it.
 
2012-10-21 12:41:52 PM
I lived in a predominantly black neighborhood back in the 2004 election. In our neighborhood, there were like 2 voting machines for everyone registered in the area. I had to take an entire day off of work just to wait in line.

Interestingly, in the white suburbs, there were no lines at all. Guess who got to decide how to distribute the machines? One of George W's former campaign advisers. I'm sure there was nothing sketchy about that at all.
 
2012-10-21 12:42:12 PM

Weaver95: I think what bothers me most about team Romney is the smug attitude of entitlement. Romney seems to believe that he should be president because he's rich and he wants it.


Weaver, I agree with you. Suppose you learned that in some country, lets pick Kazakhstan, they held their election and one candidate and his company owned the voting machines. What would that tell you about the candidate and the process?
 
2012-10-21 12:46:27 PM

Delay: Weaver95: I think what bothers me most about team Romney is the smug attitude of entitlement. Romney seems to believe that he should be president because he's rich and he wants it.

Weaver, I agree with you. Suppose you learned that in some country, lets pick Kazakhstan, they held their election and one candidate and his company owned the voting machines. What would that tell you about the candidate and the process?


it would strike me as questionable...but not conclusive.
 
2012-10-21 12:51:36 PM

Weaver95: it would strike me as questionable...but not conclusive.


Fair enough, but why would Romney do such a questionable thing if it were not necessary. Seems as if he knows not owning the voting machines, which have no paper audit, they're black box machines, would be worse for him than not owning them. Same reasoning with the release of his income taxes. Romney knew showing them would be worse than the implication that he had stuff to hide.
 
2012-10-21 12:56:14 PM

Delay: Weaver95: it would strike me as questionable...but not conclusive.

Fair enough, but why would Romney do such a questionable thing if it were not necessary. Seems as if he knows not owning the voting machines, which have no paper audit, they're black box machines, would be worse for him than not owning them. Same reasoning with the release of his income taxes. Romney knew showing them would be worse than the implication that he had stuff to hide.


again - questionable but not illegal. And not evidence of a conspiracy. however...why hide it? you could make the case that Romney simply wanted to avoid controversy...but he certainly didn't seem to care about openly refusing to release his tax returns. so he isn't afraid of controversy. why hide purchasing voting machines then? the only thing I can think of is that Romney doesn't seem to think buying a bunch of voting machines presents any sort of conflict of interest. given what i've seen of the man, I don't think he understands the concept of 'conflict of interest'.
 
2012-10-21 01:08:21 PM
will Americans -- especially African-Americans -- take to the streets

I think I know which Farker wrote that article.
 
2012-10-21 01:09:00 PM

Weaver95: I don't think he understands the concept of 'conflict of interest'.


I think he understands, I just think he doesn't care.
 
2012-10-21 01:10:23 PM

RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: I don't think he understands the concept of 'conflict of interest'.

I think he understands, I just think he doesn't care.


that's also a valid possibility.
 
2012-10-21 01:15:16 PM

Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: I don't think he understands the concept of 'conflict of interest'.

I think he understands, I just think he doesn't care.

that's also a valid possibility.


I think what bugs me the most is he talks about the problems with outsourcing jobs to China...WHILE outsourcing jobs to China.
 
2012-10-21 01:20:47 PM

RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: I don't think he understands the concept of 'conflict of interest'.

I think he understands, I just think he doesn't care.

that's also a valid possibility.

I think what bugs me the most is he talks about the problems with outsourcing jobs to China...WHILE outsourcing jobs to China.


...and then gets angry when someone calls him out on that sort of bullshiat...
 
2012-10-21 01:24:06 PM

Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: I don't think he understands the concept of 'conflict of interest'.

I think he understands, I just think he doesn't care.

that's also a valid possibility.

I think what bugs me the most is he talks about the problems with outsourcing jobs to China...WHILE outsourcing jobs to China.

...and then gets angry when someone calls him out on that sort of bullshiat...


The worst part is it's not in the past, Bain is about to close down one in Freeport, Illinois and I'm noticing a small amount, but not much, discussion about it, and a complete silence from the Romney camp.

Also, per my list earlier, voter coercion. Several companies are now threatening to lay off people if Obama is reelected. The total amount of BS in this election is staggering.
 
2012-10-21 01:27:14 PM

RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: I don't think he understands the concept of 'conflict of interest'.

I think he understands, I just think he doesn't care.

that's also a valid possibility.

I think what bugs me the most is he talks about the problems with outsourcing jobs to China...WHILE outsourcing jobs to China.


Romney doesn't outsource jobs. He doesn't make any hands-on business decisions. All he does is place bets on what other people are going to do, just like a sports gambler.
 
2012-10-21 01:30:39 PM

RedPhoenix122:
The worst part is it's not in the past, Bain is about to close down one in Freeport, Illinois and I'm noticing a small amount, but not much, discussion about it, and a complete silence from the Romney camp.

Also, per my list earlier, voter coercion. Several companies are now threatening to lay off people if Obama is reelected. The total amount of BS in this election is staggering.


OWS ran into the same sort of wall of silence. the corporate press DOES NOT want to talk about US companies moving jobs out of this country. they'd rather talk about the weather, or which hollywood starlett is sleeping around with which director/producer. anything other than our fiscal problems or the very well documented flaws in what we laughingly call 'capitalism'. people are angry...but they're not yet starving. we're in that weird 'in between' phase when everyone is mad as hell about the elite bankers but it's too early to start shooting the bastards.

for my part, I am continually amazed at rank and file republicans who think Romney (or the GOP in general) cares about the plight of workers in this country. there are piles of evidence that the GOP doesn't give a shiat about helping the middle class. yet, they still keep right on voting Republican. sometimes you just have to let 'em burn.
 
2012-10-21 01:31:03 PM

RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: I don't think he understands the concept of 'conflict of interest'.

I think he understands, I just think he doesn't care.

that's also a valid possibility.

I think what bugs me the most is he talks about the problems with outsourcing jobs to China...WHILE outsourcing jobs to China.

...and then gets angry when someone calls him out on that sort of bullshiat...

The worst part is it's not in the past, Bain is about to close down one in Freeport, Illinois and I'm noticing a small amount, but not much, discussion about it, and a complete silence from the Romney camp.

Also, per my list earlier, voter coercion. Several companies are now threatening to lay off people if Obama is reelected. The total amount of BS in this election is staggering.


That word implies choice. Many people feel that the decision has already been made and we are just participating in a charade at this point.
 
2012-10-21 02:07:31 PM

BarkingUnicorn:

Romney doesn't outsource jobs. He doesn't make any hands-on business decisions. All he does is place bets on what other people are going to do, just like a sports gambler.


did you ever watch this movie? I'd imagine this is how a Romney cabinet meeting would go...
 
2012-10-21 02:11:32 PM
Point of order: early voting has begun in several states. The election has indeed begun.
 
2012-10-21 02:14:11 PM

Weaver95: BarkingUnicorn:

Romney doesn't outsource jobs. He doesn't make any hands-on business decisions. All he does is place bets on what other people are going to do, just like a sports gambler.

did you ever watch this movie? I'd imagine this is how a Romney cabinet meeting would go...


Damn that's a good flick. It's certainly how Truthers see the government.
 
2012-10-21 02:14:41 PM

qorkfiend: Point of order: early voting has begun in several states. The election has indeed begun.


I voted just today, got my ballot Friday though. I know, am lazy! Woo Washington State and everyone getting their ballot in the mail about now!
 
2012-10-21 02:15:04 PM

ambassador_ahab: Interestingly, in the white suburbs, there were no lines at all. Guess who got to decide how to distribute the machines? One of George W's former campaign advisers. I'm sure there was nothing sketchy about that at all.


Dear lord, you'd get shot if you tried to pull that shiat here. Voting machines are evenly distributed throughout our wards, and there's about one machine for every 150 people. The only time there are lines is after work for major elections.

/votes in the middle of the day.
//my voting division is so small I'm the only "Y" listed in it, which makes it easy when they look me up.
 
2012-10-21 02:17:02 PM

bbfreak: I voted just today, got my ballot Friday though. I know, am lazy! Woo Washington State and everyone getting their ballot in the mail about now!


We need some sort of Federal law to force all the states to conform to a Washington-type system.
 
2012-10-21 02:19:58 PM
FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.
 
2012-10-21 02:20:41 PM
So we greenlight Iranian propaganda now? KCNA wants a turn.
 
2012-10-21 02:28:08 PM

AbbeySomeone: Hey listen trollmitter, TFA is factual.


I guess I'll take your word for it, since all I got was...

http://edition.presstv.ir/iphone/

/this is NOT an iphone, jackholes!

xkcd-server-attention-span.jgp
 
2012-10-21 02:28:38 PM

Weaver95: while there have been some silly business with the polls....I've been out on the campaign trail in my local area and I can say I haven't seen any evidence of fraud on the part of the GOP. well, at least in my area anyways. In fact I haven't seen the GOP out there at all. plenty of signs but no door to door canvassing and no phone banks.

there was one questionable incident that I can verify I've seen with my own eyes - in the black neighborhoods there have been GOP flyers being posted with incorrect information about Pennsylvania's voter ID law. someone in the GOP (or who's leaning GOP) has been pushing flyers that say the voter ID law is still in effect. this is untrue, since the courts have suspended the law until after the current election is over. so either the GOP is ill informed...or they're playing stupid on purpose. either way it's scummy behavior.

but that's the only thing I can say i've seen done with my own eyes. if there's any other funny bidness going on, I haven't seen any evidence of it.


That's what is really strange for us, too. We live in a fairly rural area. I've been visited several times by Democrats (both local and federal elections). I have yet to see any Republicans walking the streets or talking to people. All there seems to be are signs, and not many of those.

/guess they are relying on the hardcore derpers
 
2012-10-21 02:28:53 PM

Delay: Weaver95: it would strike me as questionable...but not conclusive.

Fair enough, but why would Romney do such a questionable thing if it were not necessary. Seems as if he knows not owning the voting machines, which have no paper audit, they're black box machines, would be worse for him than not owning them. Same reasoning with the release of his income taxes. Romney knew showing them would be worse than the implication that he had stuff to hide.


More importantly, why isnt our so called liberal media all over it like white on rice.

You know they would be if Obama or Democrats owned voting machines and was quoted as saying they'd like to take a swing at the president.

Fair and Balanced means Right Wing Only.
 
2012-10-21 02:29:53 PM

AbbeySomeone: That word implies choice. Many people feel that the decision has already been made and we are just participating in a charade at this point.


Those people would either be idiots or Calvanists, and I'm not sure where one group ends and the other begins.
 
2012-10-21 02:31:38 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Weaver95: while there have been some silly business with the polls....I've been out on the campaign trail in my local area and I can say I haven't seen any evidence of fraud on the part of the GOP. well, at least in my area anyways. In fact I haven't seen the GOP out there at all. plenty of signs but no door to door canvassing and no phone banks.

there was one questionable incident that I can verify I've seen with my own eyes - in the black neighborhoods there have been GOP flyers being posted with incorrect information about Pennsylvania's voter ID law. someone in the GOP (or who's leaning GOP) has been pushing flyers that say the voter ID law is still in effect. this is untrue, since the courts have suspended the law until after the current election is over. so either the GOP is ill informed...or they're playing stupid on purpose. either way it's scummy behavior.

but that's the only thing I can say i've seen done with my own eyes. if there's any other funny bidness going on, I haven't seen any evidence of it.

That's what is really strange for us, too. We live in a fairly rural area. I've been visited several times by Democrats (both local and federal elections). I have yet to see any Republicans walking the streets or talking to people. All there seems to be are signs, and not many of those.

/guess they are relying on the hardcore derpers


I honestly don't know what the GOP plan to win the election is this year...but they haven't been out hitting the streets like the Democrats.
 
2012-10-21 02:32:52 PM

Dwight_Yeast: bbfreak: I voted just today, got my ballot Friday though. I know, am lazy! Woo Washington State and everyone getting their ballot in the mail about now!

We need some sort of Federal law to force all the states to conform to a Washington-type system.


I certainly don't disagree, takes the hassle out of voting and your ballot even comes with a handy voters' pamphlet that explains what exactly you're voting for in most cases (more local county measures probably aren't in it but are probably online in a similar manner to the pamphlet for various counties). The pamphlet is also online in audio or plain text: Example: For & Against Arguments for Same Sex Marriage in WA State in Audio form. Pretty nifty.
 
2012-10-21 02:33:10 PM

TomD9938: FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.


4.bp.blogspot.com 

Do tell.
 
2012-10-21 02:37:17 PM
5 individuals in Washington DC are going to make sure Romney is elected. All the GOP has to do is make the theft look reasonable. Just keep the margin supposedly close.
 
2012-10-21 02:38:12 PM

Weaver95: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Weaver95: while there have been some silly business with the polls....I've been out on the campaign trail in my local area and I can say I haven't seen any evidence of fraud on the part of the GOP. well, at least in my area anyways. In fact I haven't seen the GOP out there at all. plenty of signs but no door to door canvassing and no phone banks.

there was one questionable incident that I can verify I've seen with my own eyes - in the black neighborhoods there have been GOP flyers being posted with incorrect information about Pennsylvania's voter ID law. someone in the GOP (or who's leaning GOP) has been pushing flyers that say the voter ID law is still in effect. this is untrue, since the courts have suspended the law until after the current election is over. so either the GOP is ill informed...or they're playing stupid on purpose. either way it's scummy behavior.

but that's the only thing I can say i've seen done with my own eyes. if there's any other funny bidness going on, I haven't seen any evidence of it.

That's what is really strange for us, too. We live in a fairly rural area. I've been visited several times by Democrats (both local and federal elections). I have yet to see any Republicans walking the streets or talking to people. All there seems to be are signs, and not many of those.

/guess they are relying on the hardcore derpers

I honestly don't know what the GOP plan to win the election is this year...but they haven't been out hitting the streets like the Democrats.


No, and it will be interesting to see it if the street level organizing on the part of the Dems pays off so well that even the media is caught flatfooted. I know a good number of conservatives who are actually kind of pissed that the Republicans seem to be relying on flyers and nothing else.
 
2012-10-21 02:38:24 PM

Weaver95: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Weaver95: while there have been some silly business with the polls....I've been out on the campaign trail in my local area and I can say I haven't seen any evidence of fraud on the part of the GOP. well, at least in my area anyways. In fact I haven't seen the GOP out there at all. plenty of signs but no door to door canvassing and no phone banks.

there was one questionable incident that I can verify I've seen with my own eyes - in the black neighborhoods there have been GOP flyers being posted with incorrect information about Pennsylvania's voter ID law. someone in the GOP (or who's leaning GOP) has been pushing flyers that say the voter ID law is still in effect. this is untrue, since the courts have suspended the law until after the current election is over. so either the GOP is ill informed...or they're playing stupid on purpose. either way it's scummy behavior.

but that's the only thing I can say i've seen done with my own eyes. if there's any other funny bidness going on, I haven't seen any evidence of it.

That's what is really strange for us, too. We live in a fairly rural area. I've been visited several times by Democrats (both local and federal elections). I have yet to see any Republicans walking the streets or talking to people. All there seems to be are signs, and not many of those.

/guess they are relying on the hardcore derpers

I honestly don't know what the GOP plan to win the election is this year...but they haven't been out hitting the streets like the Democrats.


Why hit the streets when you own the damned voting machines?
 
2012-10-21 02:40:36 PM

El Pachuco: TomD9938: FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 137x141] 

Do tell.


If American elections are corrupt and Carter won an American election, his election must have been brought about by corrupt means. 

/retarded kidjpeg
// ha ha!
 
2012-10-21 02:43:37 PM
Yeah, these voting machines have been suspect since they hit the street, yet they're still being used. Go figure.

I just want to see where they go with the 'Romney Family Owns Electronic Voting Machine Company' angle. I hope someone scrapes the slime off this story next week and really breaks it... So far, it's kind of small potatoes, but seems to be picking up some steam.

Jesus, they run on the 'morals' platform, yet they're crooked as all fark.
 
2012-10-21 02:45:03 PM

TomD9938: If American elections are corrupt and Carter won an American election, his election must have been brought about by corrupt means.

/retarded kidjpeg
// ha ha!


I think you've managed to count to "carrot."

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: 5 individuals in Washington DC are going to make sure Romney is elected. All the GOP has to do is make the theft look reasonable. Just keep the margin supposedly close.


It's not going to be that close. And I believe, if they act on the same arguments in the same way if it did become a Supremes case, they'd have to either throw it to Obama (speedy transition of power) or back to the House. The interesting that about Bush v. Gore is that it only applied in that once instance and stated in the ruling that it didn't set president.
 
2012-10-21 02:45:43 PM
Remember, kids: Birtherism, a theory based on pieces of evidence such as the President won while black, while having a non-protestant sounding name, and while being raised by a foreign-born parent but no ACTUAL evidence is something STILL worth investigating but Republican election fraud, which has evidence such as actual messages with misleading dates, gerrymandering districts and now voting machines paid for by the retroactively-retired CEO of the company is just idiotic libs making idiotic lib noises.
 
2012-10-21 02:47:34 PM

AbbeySomeone: That word implies choice. Many people feel that the decision has already been made and we are just participating in a charade at this point.


I understand how you feel, but I'm not that cynical.

We do have a choice, and mostly it's to vote or not. Nate Silver had an column on it, or whatever you call his New York Times gig. He summarized polls show folks who are considered unlikely to vote, for one reason or another, favor Obama over Romney something like 3:1. I'm too lazy today to look it up.

Every get out the vote effort helps typical working folks and hurts Romney. So, it's not a charade. Be sure to vote.
 
2012-10-21 02:48:33 PM

Delay: No matter what Republicans say, voting is a right, not a crime.


And no matter what rational people say, if Romney wins it will be considered a theft by some.
 
2012-10-21 02:48:46 PM
fta: And it gets worse. Karl Rove and the Republican election fraud machine not only stole the 2004 elections, they murdered the computer expert who orchestrated the theft, Mike Connell, shortly before he was scheduled to testify in court against Rove.

Oh, FFS.

If you flip the Vince Foster conspiracy coin over is this what's on the other side?

That noted, Republican efforts to rig the vote through gerrymandering, voter disenfranchisement, caging, misinformation campaigns, and biased election officials are all real causes for concern and not the trolly variety.
 
2012-10-21 02:49:45 PM
So apparently as a country we have learned precisely NOTHING from 2000 and 2004.
 
2012-10-21 02:52:13 PM

I_C_Weener: It will be a close election. Both sides will cry fraud.

I want a 269 tie where the house voted in Romney and the Senate votes in Biden as Veep.


That would be very interesting. However, it is apparently the incoming NEW Congress that would vote for President and VP. Also, there is apparently no laws that forces Senators and Congressmen to vote along party lines. So what happens, riot/assassination-wise, if the Senate goes just enough Republican to vote for Ryan?
 
2012-10-21 02:53:44 PM

TomD9938: FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.


Let me guess: Carter "won by fraud" because his win denied America to be rescued by the divine selection of Reagan four years early.

Here's something for our British friends to chew on: had Reagan won in 1976, the world would have had an earlier exposure to "compassionate conservatism" and you might just have been spared the Thatcher years.
 
2012-10-21 02:53:54 PM

Dinki: While I'm a big skeptic of the whole "hacked voting machine" conspiracy theory, there is little doubt that the GOP has taken the position that since they can't win by simply counting votes, that voter suppression is the way to go.


How big of a skeptic can you be when TFA talks about the consistent 5% difference between exit polls and the "results"(Favoring the Republicans every time), as well as the mysterious 6% swing in Ohio in the middle of the night, as well as the fact that Scott Walker wouldn't have won his recall without that 5% difference.

Here's the problem: There is no way to audit the machine. It returns end results, but nothing on a per-voter basis. They are also extremely easy to break into, no security at all, and if and when someone DOES break in, there's no real need to cover their tracks, because it's such a simple system that it doesn't keep records regarding access...

Really though, the important part of the story isn't the Black Boxes themselves, but the part about the Romney family investing heavily in the company that owns a major chunk of these. It doesn't matter if the boxes are legit or not, this is a major conflict of interest that should be illegal, and the "blind trust" excuse fails to pass muster on this, there is no way someone with Romney's money can't call his accountant and tell them to get his farking money out of something that is going to compromise his principles. Of course, that would be assuming that Romney HAS principles.

Either way, these things come to your local voting precinct just BEGGING to be hacked, it doesn't require Kevin Mitnick, and then we have the Republican candidate(The party the machines already seem to favor) investing in the company that manufactures a bunch of these? Pretty hard to be skeptical when there is that much data out there, but beng America, the Internet, and Fark, you are most definitely welcome to your opinion.
 
2012-10-21 02:54:10 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: And no matter what rational people say, if Romney wins it will be considered a theft by some.


pauloflaherty.com
 
2012-10-21 02:55:13 PM
You know, I'd almost like to see Romney elected just for the entertainment value here on Fark. You people will lose your ever-lovin' minds.
 
2012-10-21 02:55:51 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Delay: No matter what Republicans say, voting is a right, not a crime.

And no matter what rational people say, if Romney wins it will be considered a theft by some.


So there's absolutely nothing sketchy about Romney's son buying voting machines in Ohio. If you think otherwise, you're not rational
 
2012-10-21 02:56:23 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: So what happens, riot/assassination-wise, if the Senate goes just enough Republican to vote for Ryan?


As VP he doesn't do anything for 4 years. Next question.
 
2012-10-21 02:57:12 PM
I look at it like this one time a caught my kid putting the step ladder next to the refrigerator where the cookies are on top of. " What are you doing? "

" Nothing why do you think im doing something?!? " my kid says with the most innocent face she could muster

Voter ID laws that are made JUST for people who vote Democratic IE minorities and elderly in swing states, Romney's own kid buying election machines just for Ohio ( ?!??!) guy who works for election company for VA caught red handed throwing away democratic voter registration forms, company still is working for VA, Billboard in african american neighborhoods in cleveland warning about voter fraud and only in those neighborhoods ( they look more like they are trying to scare people from voting ), Voter card in spanish that give the wrong date when the election is in AZ.

Nope nothing to see here ..herp a derp!
 
2012-10-21 02:57:44 PM
"And it gets worse. Karl Rove and the Republican election fraud machine not only stole the 2004 elections, they murdered the computer expert who orchestrated the theft, Mike Connell, shortly before he was scheduled to testify in court against Rove."

The basement in which this was written must be a very, very scary place.
 
2012-10-21 03:01:37 PM

RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: I don't think he understands the concept of 'conflict of interest'.

I think he understands, I just think he doesn't care.

that's also a valid possibility.

I think what bugs me the most is he talks about the problems with outsourcing jobs to China...WHILE outsourcing jobs to China.


B-b-but we can't take four more years of Nofartbama! He can't create jeorbs! Romney will create jeorbs! The President can't create jeorbs but Romney will create jeorbs because he is a jeorb creator! In the private sector, not by expanding gubbermint!
 
2012-10-21 03:01:41 PM
The U.S. is supposed to be the paragon of democracy. There shouldn't even be any doubt or question to the system that we use to cast and count our votes. That there is, should be a giant red flag. No one that would call themselves a patriot should stand for any possible flaw, no matter how slight or unlikely it is to effect the outcome.

That the family of a candidate for POTUS can own the company that owns the voting machines, machines with no means of authenticating votes, isn't just ridiculous, it's a national embarrassment.
 
2012-10-21 03:02:21 PM
*eyeroll*

FFS, people....
 
2012-10-21 03:03:52 PM

Semantic Warrior: The U.S. is supposed to be the paragon of democracy. There shouldn't even be any doubt or question to the system that we use to cast and count our votes. That there is, should be a giant red flag. No one that would call themselves a patriot should stand for any possible flaw, no matter how slight or unlikely it is to effect the outcome.

That the family of a candidate for POTUS can own the company that owns the voting machines, machines with no means of authenticating votes, isn't just ridiculous, it's a national embarrassment.


This post is the embarrassment.
 
2012-10-21 03:07:33 PM

quatchi: fta: And it gets worse. Karl Rove and the Republican election fraud machine not only stole the 2004 elections, they murdered the computer expert who orchestrated the theft, Mike Connell, shortly before he was scheduled to testify in court against Rove.

Oh, FFS.

If you flip the Vince Foster conspiracy coin over is this what's on the other side?

That noted, Republican efforts to rig the vote through gerrymandering, voter disenfranchisement, caging, misinformation campaigns, and biased election officials are all real causes for concern and not the trolly variety.


Not to say the general premise of this article isn't something to be concerned about, but I believe there are several more credible sources about voter suppression/dirty tricks/GOP fraud than an an article written by some 9/11 troofer on an Iranian state news site, no?

Dr. Kevin Barrett
 
2012-10-21 03:07:58 PM

TomD9938: FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.


What derpiverse did you come up with that one from.

The recognized fraudulent presidencies are usually accepted to be Rutherford B Hayes, Warren Glamiel Harding, John Fitzgerald Kennedy and George W. Bush.

The list of corrupt presidents once elected is a bit longer, really, it would be shorter to just list the ones who were not corrupt.

Carter is usually considered inept, well intentioned, and the victim of the original October Surprise (George Herbert Walker Bush's secret deal with the Ayatollah Khomeini to not release the hostages until after the election, and in return we'd sell them weapons once Reagan got elected)
 
2012-10-21 03:09:36 PM
Dammit. Fark threw away my link to the author's wiki page: Link
 
2012-10-21 03:09:39 PM
The machines are rigged!

Must tell President Romney!
 
2012-10-21 03:09:46 PM
I don't understand why people even try the whole "make sure you vote on this day instead of this day" nonsense. Or the whole voter ID must have certain documents to vote trick. You were taught early on that you don't need ID to vote, just proof of residence where you're voting. You were taught early on that the presidential election is the first Tuesday of the first full week in November. If you are unsure of when or where to vote, just go to any government office where you reside and ask. If you can't do or remember any of this, perhaps you're too stupid to vote. Maybe I'm being naive, but it doesn't make sense.
 
2012-10-21 03:11:02 PM
That was a little too much paranoia for me. Two stolen elections, murder, multicultural riots in the streets, black people "not being pussies" when it comes to protesting/rioting (wut?).
All we can do is vote because guess what, if Romney wins, nothing is going to happen. The morning of November 7th, we will all wake up and go about our daily lives. There will be no rioting, no protests. It will be another day.
These paranoid rants are not helping the cause, and giving attention to these ridiculous articles only hurts voter turnout. These articles only give people a feeling of hopelessness.
 
2012-10-21 03:11:31 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: So what happens, riot/assassination-wise, if the Senate goes just enough Republican to vote for Ryan?


The VP loses his office in the West Wing (he keeps the one in the EEOB) and the president stops returning his calls; basically the same thing that happened to George HW Bush in Reagan's second term.
 
2012-10-21 03:12:12 PM

Cubs300: Maybe I'm being naive, but it doesn't make sense.


Could be both. You are naive and voter suppression should be illegal.
 
2012-10-21 03:12:48 PM

RedPhoenix122: I think what bugs me the most is he talks about the problems with outsourcing jobs to China...WHILE outsourcing jobs to China.


Projection is one of the traits of narcissists.
 
2012-10-21 03:14:47 PM

cc_rider: I believe there are several more credible sources about voter suppression/dirty tricks/GOP fraud than an an article written by some 9/11 troofer on an Iranian state news site, no?


Six of one.
 
2012-10-21 03:15:19 PM

Dwight_Yeast: TomD9938: If American elections are corrupt and Carter won an American election, his election must have been brought about by corrupt means.

/retarded kidjpeg
// ha ha!

I think you've managed to count to "carrot."

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: 5 individuals in Washington DC are going to make sure Romney is elected. All the GOP has to do is make the theft look reasonable. Just keep the margin supposedly close.

It's not going to be that close. And I believe, if they act on the same arguments in the same way if it did become a Supremes case, they'd have to either throw it to Obama (speedy transition of power) or back to the House. The interesting that about Bush v. Gore is that it only applied in that once instance and stated in the ruling that it didn't set president.


Well, actually, it DID set President. It just didn't set precedent.
 
2012-10-21 03:18:05 PM

jso2897: Well, actually, it DID set President. It just didn't set precedent.


Lack of coffee, stubby fingers, Cheeto dust in the keyboard and autocorrect.

But you got the gist, which is the important thing.
 
2012-10-21 03:24:00 PM

RedPhoenix122: There's also the numerous voter ID laws being pushed, the gerrymandering of districts to favor republicans, and the link between Bain Capital and voting machines in swing states.


I hate the gerrymandering bullshiat, but unfortunately, it is completely legal.
 
2012-10-21 03:26:49 PM

3_Butt_Cheeks: "And it gets worse. Karl Rove and the Republican election fraud machine not only stole the 2004 elections, they murdered the computer expert who orchestrated the theft, Mike Connell, shortly before he was scheduled to testify in court against Rove."

The basement in which this was written must be a very, very scary place.


But also very entertaining.
 
2012-10-21 03:27:40 PM

3_Butt_Cheeks: Semantic Warrior: The U.S. is supposed to be the paragon of democracy. There shouldn't even be any doubt or question to the system that we use to cast and count our votes. That there is, should be a giant red flag. No one that would call themselves a patriot should stand for any possible flaw, no matter how slight or unlikely it is to effect the outcome.

That the family of a candidate for POTUS can own the company that owns the voting machines, machines with no means of authenticating votes, isn't just ridiculous, it's a national embarrassment.

This post is the embarrassment.


Most of your posts are.
 
2012-10-21 03:28:44 PM
Let's skip the text and look for the subtext....

He's one of the primary 9/11 Truthers.

Yet the mainstream media, owned by the same interests behind the "black-box" voting machines that manufacture election outcomes, won't touch the issue.


He believes it's all a monolithic GOP backing conspiracy ala Bilderburg & Bohemian Grove.

He might have a point, but he's so full of whargarble I wouldn't associate myself with him.
 
2012-10-21 03:29:09 PM
like I said - at least in my area, we're not seeing the Republicans out there doing the work necessary to get Romney elected. which is awesome...but it makes me wonder what their plan is...
 
2012-10-21 03:29:27 PM

Generation_D: TomD9938: FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.

What derpiverse did you come up with that one from.

The recognized fraudulent presidencies are usually accepted to be Rutherford B Hayes, Warren Glamiel Harding, John Fitzgerald Kennedy and George W. Bush.

The list of corrupt presidents once elected is a bit longer, really, it would be shorter to just list the ones who were not corrupt.

Carter is usually considered inept, well intentioned, and the victim of the original October Surprise (George Herbert Walker Bush's secret deal with the Ayatollah Khomeini to not release the hostages until after the election, and in return we'd sell them weapons once Reagan got elected)


Do you really thing that there has been any non-rigged Presidential election since Kennedy? LOL!
 
2012-10-21 03:32:57 PM

cc_rider: Dammit. Fark threw away my link to the author's wiki page: Link


*click*

In April and October 2007, Barrett did a series of speaking engagements in Michigan, Chicago, and Wisconsin with William Rodriguez. The month after this tour, Barrett announced to the press his intention to fly to Morocco to "apprehend accused 9/11 hijacker Waleed al-Shehri." [16] Unable to locate his quarry, Barrett had to content himself with penning dispatches from cafes, and a humorous airport story.

dafuq?

Barrett began promoting Captain Eric May and his numerological predictions of upcoming "false flag" (faked) terrorist attacks, none of which ever came to pass.

Okay, got it now, slightly unstable 911 troofer, Islamic convert in the "no one as zealous as" sense with a chronic case of Attention Whore Syndrome and not enuff juice to make it as a guest on Coast2Coast.

Surprised he doesn't have a Fark handle.
 
2012-10-21 03:39:16 PM

Weaver95: in the black neighborhoods there have been GOP flyers being posted with incorrect information about Pennsylvania's voter ID law


this one is state sponsored. and Hispanic. the PA state government has done everything in their power to push the ID law even disobeying a federal court order.

remember: voter ID which will allow Romney to win PA - done
 
2012-10-21 03:44:06 PM
This is the forth article I've seen recently predicting social unrest if Romney wins. The lefties are whipping themselves into a pre-loss frenzy and telling their minions that they're justified in rioting if they don't get what they want.

i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-21 03:48:25 PM

Curious: remember: voter ID which will allow Romney to win PA - done


Except that it's been overturned for the coming election; even those not showing ID in PA will be allowed to vote.

/can't believe it wasn't overturned completely.
//have a feeling it will eventually go to the Supremes.
 
2012-10-21 03:57:46 PM

qorkfiend: Point of order: early voting has begun in several states. The election has indeed begun.


THIS. If anyone is trying to get out the vote, tell them to get out this week. When you do early voting, you can vote other places than your local precinct, and if there's a history of there not being enough voting machines, go to one with more.

Most people have made up their minds already, and they need to go ahead and vote. There is no need to wait for election day, and why should you? I haven't voted on election day since 1996, I always vote earlier, and that way I avoid the hassle.

This race will be won by turnout. The Democrats lost in 2010 because of low voter turnout. They can't make that mistake this year. They need to get out the vote and start doing it tomorrow. If there's early voting, people need to get out and vote ASAP.

There is no reason not to vote. Even if it's the lesser of two evils, it's still keeping the greater evil at bay. Most of America didn't vote in 2010 and look at how well that worked out for us.
 
2012-10-21 03:59:05 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Except that it's been overturned for the coming election; even those not showing ID in PA will be allowed to vote.


Yeah, but the billboards are still up threatening jail for those PA voters that attempt to vote without showing proper ID. fark Republicans.
 
2012-10-21 04:04:59 PM

Delay: AbbeySomeone: That word implies choice. Many people feel that the decision has already been made and we are just participating in a charade at this point.

I understand how you feel, but I'm not that cynical.

We do have a choice, and mostly it's to vote or not. Nate Silver had an column on it, or whatever you call his New York Times gig. He summarized polls show folks who are considered unlikely to vote, for one reason or another, favor Obama over Romney something like 3:1. I'm too lazy today to look it up.

Every get out the vote effort helps typical working folks and hurts Romney. So, it's not a charade. Be sure to vote.


That sounds nice and all, but I can guarantee you that Utah will swing Romney 100% on the electoral college vote. My wife and I are still going to vote, and we're going to vote Obama, but we're farked anyway.

Are there restrictions on who the Electors can vote for?

There is no Constitutional provision or Federal law that requires Electors to vote according to the results of the popular vote in their States. Some States, however, require Electors to cast their votes according to the popular vote. These pledges fall into two categories-Electors bound by State law and those bound by pledges to political parties.

The U.S. Supreme Court has held that the Constitution does not require that Electors be completely free to act as they choose and therefore, political parties may extract pledges from electors to vote for the parties' nominees. Some State laws provide that so-called "faithless Electors"; may be subject to fines or may be disqualified for casting an invalid vote and be replaced by a substitute elector. The Supreme Court has not specifically ruled on the question of whether pledges and penalties for failure to vote as pledged may be enforced under the Constitution. No Elector has ever been prosecuted for failing to vote as pledged.

Today, it is rare for Electors to disregard the popular vote by casting their electoral vote for someone other than their party's candidate. Electors generally hold a leadership position in their party or were chosen to recognize years of loyal service to the party. Throughout our history as a nation, more than 99 percent of Electors have voted as pledged.


Welcome to our "Democracy"
 
2012-10-21 04:14:11 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: And no matter what rational people say, if Romney wins it will be considered a theft by some.


Maybe if he wouldn't have let his investments switch to farking voting computer companies?

Nah, you're right, nobody "RATIONAL" could possibly see this as unethical.
 
2012-10-21 04:16:06 PM

jjorsett: This is the forth article I've seen recently predicting social unrest if Romney wins. The lefties are whipping themselves into a pre-loss frenzy and telling their minions that they're justified in rioting if they don't get what they want.

[i49.tinypic.com image 504x323]


Try to be a rational, thinking person for a change and please tell me what would the reaction be from the right if a close relative of Obama's owned the voting machines in several states, and a state senator from a state that had just passed laws which would disenfranchise a large number of Republican voters said that it was to guarantee Obama's victory.

Tell me what Fox and Rush and Beck and people like you here on Fark would be saying about these developments.
 
2012-10-21 04:22:24 PM

soporific: qorkfiend: Point of order: early voting has begun in several states. The election has indeed begun.

THIS. If anyone is trying to get out the vote, tell them to get out this week. When you do early voting, you can vote other places than your local precinct, and if there's a history of there not being enough voting machines, go to one with more.

Most people have made up their minds already, and they need to go ahead and vote. There is no need to wait for election day, and why should you? I haven't voted on election day since 1996, I always vote earlier, and that way I avoid the hassle.

This race will be won by turnout. The Democrats lost in 2010 because of low voter turnout. They can't make that mistake this year. They need to get out the vote and start doing it tomorrow. If there's early voting, people need to get out and vote ASAP.

There is no reason not to vote. Even if it's the lesser of two evils, it's still keeping the greater evil at bay. Most of America didn't vote in 2010 and look at how well that worked out for us.




This is a good place to start if you need information about voting.

Elections Assistance Commission - Resources for Voters  (www.eac.gov)
 
2012-10-21 04:24:21 PM

Mikey1969: That sounds nice and all, but I can guarantee you that Utah will swing Romney 100% on the electoral college vote. My wife and I are still going to vote, and we're going to vote Obama, but we're farked anyway.


No you are not. Even Mormons hate the liar.
 
2012-10-21 04:30:12 PM

Delay: Mikey1969: That sounds nice and all, but I can guarantee you that Utah will swing Romney 100% on the electoral college vote. My wife and I are still going to vote, and we're going to vote Obama, but we're farked anyway.

No you are not. Even Mormons hate the liar.


Wait, what?

The Salt Lake Tribune, the largest paper in the overwhelmingly Mormon state of Utah, has endorsed Obama.

0.o This sounds like good news... for Obama.

But the nice lady on FOX with the bouncy jumblies assured me...

*has to go lie down*
 
2012-10-21 04:39:04 PM

Delay: Mikey1969: That sounds nice and all, but I can guarantee you that Utah will swing Romney 100% on the electoral college vote. My wife and I are still going to vote, and we're going to vote Obama, but we're farked anyway.

No you are not. Even Mormons hate the liar.


quatchi: 0.o This sounds like good news... for Obama.

But the nice lady on FOX with the bouncy jumblies assured me...

*has to go lie down*

The Trib

is the more "Liberal" of the two newspapers here. I'm not too surprised by this. When The Deseret News endorses Obama, THEN you have a news story. I mean, this is good news, but not exactly Romney's death-knell for Utah.
 
2012-10-21 04:45:12 PM
It's going to be Florida2: Electric Boogaloo, isn't it?

Come on, we're all thinking the same thing.
 
2012-10-21 05:12:24 PM

Weaver95: while there have been some silly business with the polls....I've been out on the campaign trail in my local area and I can say I haven't seen any evidence of fraud on the part of the GOP. well, at least in my area anyways. In fact I haven't seen the GOP out there at all. plenty of signs but no door to door canvassing and no phone banks.

there was one questionable incident that I can verify I've seen with my own eyes - in the black neighborhoods there have been GOP flyers being posted with incorrect information about Pennsylvania's voter ID law. someone in the GOP (or who's leaning GOP) has been pushing flyers that say the voter ID law is still in effect. this is untrue, since the courts have suspended the law until after the current election is over. so either the GOP is ill informed...or they're playing stupid on purpose. either way it's scummy behavior.

but that's the only thing I can say i've seen done with my own eyes. if there's any other funny bidness going on, I haven't seen any evidence of it.


yeah afaik the dept of state is still running ads notifying the public about the new voter id law. that isn't in force but that doesn't stop them from misinforming people.
 
2012-10-21 05:16:52 PM

DubyaHater: That was a little too much paranoia for me. Two stolen elections, murder, multicultural riots in the streets, black people "not being pussies" when it comes to protesting/rioting (wut?).
All we can do is vote because guess what, if Romney wins, nothing is going to happen. The morning of November 7th, we will all wake up and go about our daily lives. There will be no rioting, no protests. It will be another day.
These paranoid rants are not helping the cause, and giving attention to these ridiculous articles only hurts voter turnout. These articles only give people a feeling of hopelessness.


More legitimate news sources are talking about this story...don't know why this was greenlit.

If the polling in Ohio remains consistent (+2 or +3 for Obama), and Romney somehow wins, then people will start to get pissed. Not riot level pissed, mind you...they still have their iPhones and football and stupid BS to distract them just enough from caring. But it will be another nail in the coffin.
 
2012-10-21 05:42:57 PM
Harper's magazine did a recent cover story on right-wing voter fraud since 2000. It's well-researched, chilling, and not tinfoil-hat nonsense.

The full article is paywalled but an excerpt is here: http://harpers.org/#hbc-90008943
 
2012-10-21 05:46:46 PM
What the 2000 elections taught me was that we never really bothered to count oversea military service members ever. Their votes just ship over and end up in a void. I have also learned that Al Gore could not have been happier about this fact.
 
2012-10-21 06:03:48 PM
FEMA CAMPS AND DEBTORS PRISON ALONG WITH ENDLESS WARS WITH MEXICO AND BEING OWNED BY CHINESE CANADIANS AND GETTING IT UP THE ASS BY ESKIMOS AND HULK HOGAN AND SANTA CLAUSE HOLY HIT THIS IS THE BIGGEST CONSPIRACY THEORY SINCE THE WWF SUED THE WWF AND FORCED THEM TO CHANGE THEIR NAME TO WWE
 
2012-10-21 06:05:20 PM
It's important to keep a proper perspective. The guy who wrote the article is a dyed-in-the-wool 9/11 truther. He actually believes that JOOS DID 9/11.

http://www.presstv.ir/Contributors/247897.html

//Notice the TLD?
 
2012-10-21 06:09:20 PM

ceebeecates4: It's important to keep a proper perspective. The guy who wrote the article is a dyed-in-the-wool 9/11 truther. He actually believes that JOOS DID 9/11.

http://www.presstv.ir/Contributors/247897.html

//Notice the TLD?


It doesn't matter. This guy says something that the left wants to believe, so they are supporting him. Same goes with Alex Jones and the right. He is a batshiat insane truther, but since he says a lot of things right wingers want to believe, they treat him like he is normal.
 
2012-10-21 06:23:41 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: You know, I'd almost like to see Romney elected just for the entertainment value here on Fark. You people will lose your ever-lovin' minds.


I was in a bar in downtown San Francisco on election night 2004 (it was my pool league night otherwise I wouldn't have been is such a hipster\douchebaggy type place, I mean seriously, beer and wine but no liquor in a bar? But I digress). Watching the mood change in the room from 7 pm to 11 pm was interesting to watch as it unfolded. I swear there were about half a dozen girls in tears as it was called for Bush and some really bummed out looking guys who probably cried when they got home that night.
 
2012-10-21 06:32:04 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Except that it's been overturned for the coming election; even those not showing ID in PA will be allowed to vote.


scroll up some or click on that other link below and then tell me all is well. this is disgusting. and no it's not some over zealous staffer. it's systemic abuse of the system.

Hobodeluxe: yeah afaik the dept of state is still running ads notifying the public about the new voter id law. that isn't in force but that doesn't stop them from misinforming people.

 
2012-10-21 06:34:10 PM

Delay: Weaver95: it would strike me as questionable...but not conclusive.

Fair enough, but why would Romney do such a questionable thing if it were not necessary. Seems as if he knows not owning the voting machines, which have no paper audit, they're black box machines, would be worse for him than not owning them. Same reasoning with the release of his income taxes. Romney knew showing them would be worse than the implication that he had stuff to hide.


This. The Romney clan has to know that even the appearance of impropriety is to be avoided at all costs. So why this curious investment? What could possibly be the motivation of the Romneys, knowing it doesn't pass the smell test?
 
2012-10-21 06:36:09 PM

dickfreckle: Delay: Weaver95: it would strike me as questionable...but not conclusive.

Fair enough, but why would Romney do such a questionable thing if it were not necessary. Seems as if he knows not owning the voting machines, which have no paper audit, they're black box machines, would be worse for him than not owning them. Same reasoning with the release of his income taxes. Romney knew showing them would be worse than the implication that he had stuff to hide.

This. The Romney clan has to know that even the appearance of impropriety is to be avoided at all costs. So why this curious investment? What could possibly be the motivation of the Romneys, knowing it doesn't pass the smell test?


They're rich and a significant percentage of the voting public would vote for them if Romney was caught on tape raping kittens, just so long as he had the R after his name. Rich in this country? Neither the law nor rules of polite society apply to you. Politically connected on the right? The media will never dare look askance at you. The Romneys are both.
 
2012-10-21 06:38:47 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: They're rich and a significant percentage of the voting public would vote for them if Romney was caught on tape raping kittens, just so long as he had the R after his name. Rich in this country? Neither the law nor rules of polite society apply to you. Politically connected on the right? The media will never dare look askance at you. The Romneys are both.


I never thought I would ever find something more full of shiat than a porta-john, but hey, I found it.
 
2012-10-21 06:48:31 PM

cman: A Dark Evil Omen: They're rich and a significant percentage of the voting public would vote for them if Romney was caught on tape raping kittens, just so long as he had the R after his name. Rich in this country? Neither the law nor rules of polite society apply to you. Politically connected on the right? The media will never dare look askance at you. The Romneys are both.

I never thought I would ever find something more full of shiat than a porta-john, but hey, I found it.


Let me elaborate

Obama supporters feel that Obama is getting attacked all the time in the press while Romney gets a free ride. Romney supporters feel that Romney is getting attacked all the time in the press while Obama gets a free ride. The truth of the matter is that both are being attacked in the press. You farkers just want to see yourself as a victim so you convince yourself otherwise.
 
2012-10-21 06:50:31 PM

3_Butt_Cheeks: "And it gets worse. Karl Rove and the Republican election fraud machine not only stole the 2004 elections, they murdered the computer expert who orchestrated the theft, Mike Connell, shortly before he was scheduled to testify in court against Rove."

The basement in which this was written must be a very, very scary place.


Like "pathetic" scary, or Buffalo Bill scary?
 
2012-10-21 06:50:38 PM

cman: The truth of the matter is that both are being attacked in the press. You farkers just want to see yourself as a victim so you convince yourself otherwise.


Actually, I was kinda hoping Romney would win.

Doesn't change the fact that the media treats the right wing with kid gloves and you're an idiot or shill if you have convinced yourself otherwise.
 
2012-10-21 06:52:07 PM

cman:

Obama supporters feel that Obama is getting attacked all the time in the press while Romney gets a free ride. Romney supporters feel that Romney is getting attacked all the time in the press while Obama gets a free ride. The truth of the matter is that both are being attacked in the press. You farkers just want to see yourself as a victim so you convince yourself otherwise.


except that Romney has been caught telling complete fabrications more than once. And not just 'shading the truth a little'. i'm talking full on complete fantasy - if if was anyone else, you'd recommend they be sent for a psych evaluation...THAT'S the level of delusion we're talking about here. And nobody seems willing to point out to Romney that he's delusional.
 
2012-10-21 06:53:57 PM

Weaver95: cman:

Obama supporters feel that Obama is getting attacked all the time in the press while Romney gets a free ride. Romney supporters feel that Romney is getting attacked all the time in the press while Obama gets a free ride. The truth of the matter is that both are being attacked in the press. You farkers just want to see yourself as a victim so you convince yourself otherwise.

except that Romney has been caught telling complete fabrications more than once. And not just 'shading the truth a little'. i'm talking full on complete fantasy - if if was anyone else, you'd recommend they be sent for a psych evaluation...THAT'S the level of delusion we're talking about here. And nobody seems willing to point out to Romney that he's delusional.


That has nothing to do with anything.

Both Obama and Romney are getting hammered in the press. Dark Omen made the statement that Romney wasnt being attacked in the press. I was schooling him otherwise.
 
2012-10-21 06:56:26 PM

cman: I was schooling him otherwise.


That's a laugh.
 
2012-10-21 06:59:13 PM

Mugato: Can you republicans put down the farking partisan bullshiat for two seconds and honestly say that there's nothing shady about Romney's son buying out voting machines in a swing state? If you saw that in a comedy movie you would yell bullshiat.


As I've already said, the GOP has been pushing the voter fraud theory hard so that if their guy loses they can cry foul almost before the last vote is tallied and demand a recount. They've had to back of a little recently now that the vote looks like it could be close, because it could backfire on them: All cases of "voter fraud" have been Republican in nature, and the Democrats are sure to call for a recount in any close swing states if Obama loses, especially since the Republicans have been shrieking about fraud all this time.

If either side wins decisively, there will probably be no calls of voter fraud; but if it comes down to one or two swing states, like it did in 2000, you can brace yourself for another Supreme Court decision. UNLESS the state in question has iron-clad recount laws already in place, something I don't think either party has considered: The reason it went to the Court in 2000 was that Florida had just switched over to new recount laws, and they'd never been tested before the Presidential election. Any state with old, tested laws is not going to have that problem, and a recount is not going to be an issue.
 
2012-10-21 06:59:13 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: cman: The truth of the matter is that both are being attacked in the press. You farkers just want to see yourself as a victim so you convince yourself otherwise.

Actually, I was kinda hoping Romney would win.

Doesn't change the fact that the media treats the right wing with kid gloves and you're an idiot or shill if you have convinced yourself otherwise.


No, they dont. You want to be a victim so you see it that way.

The truth is is that the media does not care about left v right. All they care about is showing morons because thats what the American public wants to see. No one gives a shiat about free trade when the media can play a newsclip filled with a bunch of tea party members with racist slogans on them.

There is a man named Drew Curtis. He wrote a book on how the media works. If I were you I would check it out.
 
2012-10-21 07:02:36 PM

cman: cman: A Dark Evil Omen: They're rich and a significant percentage of the voting public would vote for them if Romney was caught on tape raping kittens, just so long as he had the R after his name. Rich in this country? Neither the law nor rules of polite society apply to you. Politically connected on the right? The media will never dare look askance at you. The Romneys are both.

I never thought I would ever find something more full of shiat than a porta-john, but hey, I found it.

Let me elaborate

Obama supporters feel that Obama is getting attacked all the time in the press while Romney gets a free ride. Romney supporters feel that Romney is getting attacked all the time in the press while Obama gets a free ride. The truth of the matter is that both are being attacked in the press. You farkers just want to see yourself as a victim so you convince yourself otherwise.


The media (MSM and otherwise) has attacked Obama and Romney plenty, but over stupid stuff, like "binders of women" or "put y'all back in chains." Voter fraud is way to complicated to register with most news organizations, so it won't get any major play no matter who is being accused.
 
2012-10-21 07:04:40 PM

The Green Manalishi: cman: cman: A Dark Evil Omen: They're rich and a significant percentage of the voting public would vote for them if Romney was caught on tape raping kittens, just so long as he had the R after his name. Rich in this country? Neither the law nor rules of polite society apply to you. Politically connected on the right? The media will never dare look askance at you. The Romneys are both.

I never thought I would ever find something more full of shiat than a porta-john, but hey, I found it.

Let me elaborate

Obama supporters feel that Obama is getting attacked all the time in the press while Romney gets a free ride. Romney supporters feel that Romney is getting attacked all the time in the press while Obama gets a free ride. The truth of the matter is that both are being attacked in the press. You farkers just want to see yourself as a victim so you convince yourself otherwise.

The media (MSM and otherwise) has attacked Obama and Romney plenty, but over stupid stuff, like "binders of women" or "put y'all back in chains." Voter fraud is way to complicated to register with most news organizations, so it won't get any major play no matter who is being accused.


Exactly my point.

As I said right about your post, The truth is is that the media does not care about left v right. All they care about is showing morons because thats what the American public wants to see. No one gives a shiat about free trade when the media can play a newsclip filled with a bunch of tea party members with racist slogans on them.

There is a man named Drew Curtis. He wrote a book on how the media works. If I were you I would check it out.
 
2012-10-21 07:14:51 PM

cman: Exactly my point.

As I said right about your post, The truth is is that the media does not care about left v right. All they care about is showing morons because thats what the American public wants to see. No one gives a shiat about free trade when the media can play a newsclip filled with a bunch of tea party members with racist slogans on them.

There is a man named Drew Curtis. He wrote a book on how the media works. If I were you I would check it out.


So you are suggesting that News Corp, with their acknowledged public bias, doesn't exist? You are asking me to believe that a mass media that universally supported the Bush administration call to war and deliberately ignored the mass dissent is somehow even-handed or not pushing an agenda? You are suggesting that the mass media in this country, universally corporate-owned and funded, is not going to support a right-wing corporatist message? That's like suggesting a shark should pass up a meal out of the goodness of its heart!

Either you are a pathetically credulous cretin, or you think everyone else is. Or, most likely, both.
 
2012-10-21 07:15:05 PM
Hold it. Wait a second. When did Willard flood the streets with cocaine?

I know about the vulture fund stuff and the being a total upper class twit stuff, but I thought it was the CIA that flooded the streets with crack, and not cocaine, which is a rich man's drug.

They're mixing all the conspiracy theories together promiscuously again, aren't they?

They always do that.

You start out with a well documented and sensible conspiracy (such as Republican ownership, control and abuse of voting machines) and then they go and muddle it all up.

Let's keep it together people. You have to stick to the real conspiracies, the facts, and plausibility or else everything washes out like when you combine all the colours in your paint box in hopes of getting something really cool and all you get is a brownish muck-gray.

One, you should get rid of voting machines altogether and use a simple paper ballot which you mark with a pencil, and two, the Romneys are upper class shiats and should never be allowed near power in a democracy.

That's all you need to know.

Oh, and the Mormon religion is totally made-up crap, not unlike so many other religions, if not all of them. You might as well elect a GD scientologist or a right wing Protestant for all the good that it'll get you.
 
2012-10-21 07:19:05 PM
GOP electoral fraud and voter suppression

"How to Rig an Election: The G.O.P. aims to paint the country red"
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2012/10/hbc-90008943

GOP admits it wants to making it more difficult to vote
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/you-gotta-fight-for-yo u r-right-to-vote
http://www.freep.com/article/20120807/COL33/120807094/Stephen-Henders o n-A-lousy-feeling-on-Election-Day-thanks-to-Secretary-of-State-Ruth-Jo hnson

4 GOP staffers indicted in "blatant and disgraceful" election fraud
http://politic365.com/2012/08/09/4-republican-staffers-indicted-for-b l atant-and-disgraceful-voter-fraud-in-michigan/

Proven GOP voter fraud. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/us/indiana-secretary-of-state-convic ted-in-voter-fraud-case.html?_r=1

More GOP fraud. This time in Massachusetts
http://www.wgbhnews.org/post/galvin-calls-voter-fraud-allegations-pre t ty-extreme

GOP voter fraud in Texas
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Fort-Bend-candidate-v o ted-twice-in-same-3937458.php

More suspicious voter forms found in Florida
After reports of irregularities, state GOP fires company hired to register people
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49227596/ns/politics-the_new_york_times/# . UGjV_hi7ZGY

Columbus Ohio GOP Chair Opposes More Early Voting, Saying It Helps African-Americans
"I guess I really actually feel we shouldn't contort the voting process to accommodate the urban - read African-American - voter-turnout machine," said Doug Preisse, chairman of the county Republican Party and elections board member who voted against weekend hours, in an email to The Dispatch. "Let's be fair and reasonable."
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/08/19/fight-over-p o ll-hours-isnt-just-political.html
 
2012-10-21 07:22:22 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: cman: Exactly my point.

As I said right about your post, The truth is is that the media does not care about left v right. All they care about is showing morons because thats what the American public wants to see. No one gives a shiat about free trade when the media can play a newsclip filled with a bunch of tea party members with racist slogans on them.

There is a man named Drew Curtis. He wrote a book on how the media works. If I were you I would check it out.

So you are suggesting that News Corp, with their acknowledged public bias, doesn't exist? You are asking me to believe that a mass media that universally supported the Bush administration call to war and deliberately ignored the mass dissent is somehow even-handed or not pushing an agenda? You are suggesting that the mass media in this country, universally corporate-owned and funded, is not going to support a right-wing corporatist message? That's like suggesting a shark should pass up a meal out of the goodness of its heart!

Either you are a pathetically credulous cretin, or you think everyone else is. Or, most likely, both.


When it comes down to it, all Rupert Murdock wants is money. He doesn't care how he gets it. Hell, look at Fox News versus the Fox Network. One is a batshiat insane network filled with idiotic shows that add no value and the other is a tv network. They are WORLDS apart. Fox Network has programming that is the exact opposite of what Fox News shows. It's about the green, and appealing to morons on the right brings it in for him on Fox News, while appealing to the general public brings it in for him in the Fox Network.
 
2012-10-21 07:31:04 PM
All the GOP is saying is that we need a verifiable form of voter ID, such as a photo ID, in the dozen counties that will decide the election in a dozen swing states. Districts that are safely GOP, or guaranteed Democrat? It's been shown that voter fraud doesn't happen there.

So we just need to make sure that ACORN doesn't swing a dozen counties in a dozen swing states.

Which is totally common sense and patriotic.
 
2012-10-21 07:48:51 PM

Empty Matchbook: Remember, kids: Birtherism, a theory based on pieces of evidence such as the President won while black, while having a non-protestant sounding name, and while being raised by a foreign-born parent but no ACTUAL evidence is something STILL worth investigating but Republican election fraud, which has evidence such as actual messages with misleading dates, gerrymandering districts and now voting machines paid for by the retroactively-retired CEO of the company is just idiotic libs making idiotic lib noises.


This
 
2012-10-21 07:52:16 PM
Those who know history are doomed to helplessly watch it repeat itself.
 
2012-10-21 08:02:48 PM

AbbeySomeone: Hey listen trollmitter, TFA is factual.


lolwut?

interlockroc.org 

Oh the other side of this conspiracy is that Obama already knows he lost and is setting up his base for riots. This theft will give him the reason to populate the FEMA camps he's been setting up for the last four years every hurricane season with to prevent the "stolen" election.

/Or maybe if you believe either of these "conspiracies" you're a nutter. Forget the run on guns, this about the run on Reynolds wrap. Get double thickness in case they use higher frequencies.
 
2012-10-21 08:05:00 PM
TomD9938 2012-10-21 02:19:58 PM

FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-21 08:06:27 PM

Dinki: While I'm a big skeptic of the whole "hacked voting machine" conspiracy theory, there is little doubt that the GOP has taken the position that since they can't win by simply counting votes, that voter suppression is the way to go.


If Dems refrain from petitioning the courts to keep stronghold polling places open longer in close districts, I'll pay attention to "voter suppression" nonsense.
 
2012-10-21 08:06:31 PM

Kittypie070: TomD9938 2012-10-21 02:19:58 PM

FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.

[i.imgur.com image 560x468]


I dunno what that posters intentions were, but I am assuming that he was being sarcastic.
 
2012-10-21 08:09:40 PM
www.bloggernews.net

He's destroyed countries with far less BS
 
2012-10-21 08:12:07 PM

jjorsett: This is the forth article I've seen recently predicting social unrest if Romney wins. The lefties are whipping themselves into a pre-loss frenzy and telling their minions that they're justified in rioting if they don't get what they want.

[i49.tinypic.com image 504x323]


Since most people can see that this article was written by a crazy, could you show me a link to a few of the other articles that you've been hearing so much about ? I haven't seen any and I'm looking to join up with a good riot crew if Romney wins. But like I say, I haven't seen any of those types of credible articles...
 
2012-10-21 08:18:14 PM
I see the contemptible Republican spastics have finished masturbating and are now poking away at their crusty keyboards. Yay.
 
2012-10-21 08:36:20 PM

cman: Kittypie070: TomD9938 2012-10-21 02:19:58 PM

FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.

[i.imgur.com image 560x468]

I dunno what that posters intentions were, but I am assuming that he was being sarcastic.


The idea was that all American elections are fraudulent (per Jimmy Carter according to some truther/Iran Guy) and Carter won an American election. So, by definition, his election was fraudulent/corrupt.

It was poorly crafted and should have been killed on the table (in preview), I admit.
 
2012-10-21 08:39:15 PM
jjorsett 2012-10-21 03:44:06 PM

This is the forth article I've seen recently predicting social unrest if Romney wins. The lefties are whipping themselves into a pre-loss frenzy and telling their minions that they're justified in rioting if they don't get what they want.

Stop lying, moran.

In the Virginia Republican Committee newsletter, there is nothing to imply that protecting Americans from the "prey of the rich on the poor" is the reason for calling for armed rebellion. According to the newsletter, President Obama, is a "political socialist ideologue unlike anything world history has ever witnessed or recognized," and that the only option is "armed revolution should we fail with the power of the vote in November:" If one is confused as to what Republicans consider is a "political socialist ideologue," the newsletter claims President Obama "shuns biblical praise, handicaps economic ability, disrespects the honor of earned military might," and that under Obama, "the government is out of control, and this opportunity, must not be forsaken for we shall not have any coarse (sic) but armed revolution."

Republicans calling for armed insurrection against the government is nothing new, and few are apt to forget congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-MN) saying "I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back," and went on to specifically cite Jefferson's quote from 1787. Bachmann continued that, "we the people are going to have to fight back hard if we're not going to lose our country," and encouraged Americans "to do everything we can to thwart the Democrats at every turn," and apparently that included armed rebellion.
 
2012-10-21 08:46:34 PM
Maybe doesn't mean anything but our predominantly "vote democrat" neighborhood has a heck of a lot more "vote republican" signs out in the front yards than the last go round. 200k+ homes sandwiched in between 300k to 900k+ home neighborhoods.
I'm guessing moderates had a change of heart?
 
2012-10-21 08:54:15 PM

Weaver95: while there have been some silly business with the polls....I've been out on the campaign trail in my local area and I can say I haven't seen any evidence of fraud on the part of the GOP. well, at least in my area anyways. In fact I haven't seen the GOP out there at all. plenty of signs but no door to door canvassing and no phone banks.

there was one questionable incident that I can verify I've seen with my own eyes - in the black neighborhoods there have been GOP flyers being posted with incorrect information about Pennsylvania's voter ID law. someone in the GOP (or who's leaning GOP) has been pushing flyers that say the voter ID law is still in effect. this is untrue, since the courts have suspended the law until after the current election is over. so either the GOP is ill informed...or they're playing stupid on purpose. either way it's scummy behavior.

but that's the only thing I can say i've seen done with my own eyes. if there's any other funny bidness going on, I haven't seen any evidence of it.


Was over turned Oct2- Check the publication date of the distributed material and when it was distributed as it may be dated.
 
2012-10-21 09:11:33 PM
If Obama loses next month, it's just a rope-a-dope with an eye for the long game.
 
2012-10-21 09:13:48 PM

Chimperror2: If Dems refrain from petitioning the courts to keep stronghold polling places open longer in close districts, I'll pay attention to "voter suppression" nonsense.


What would be wrong with allowing more people to vote?
 
2012-10-21 09:15:50 PM
Wow, lots of headers without posts in here.
 
2012-10-21 09:20:16 PM

Curious: Dwight_Yeast: Except that it's been overturned for the coming election; even those not showing ID in PA will be allowed to vote.

scroll up some or click on that other link below and then tell me all is well. this is disgusting. and no it's not some over zealous staffer. it's systemic abuse of the system.


Let me put it like this: I'm happy that no one will be unfairly and improperly turned away from the polls on election day; everyone who's registered to vote will be able to vote, which means confusion is the only weapon they have left.

Here's how bad it is: the current AG stipulated in the case against this that he had no proof that voter fraud was a problem and that he had no evidence of any voter fraud ever happened in the state, yet he still said he fully supported the law. The current gov. (former state AG) has sworn up and down that the law is perfectly legal and necessary, though he's never offered a reason why we need it.

If Corbett (current PA gov) or the AG get re-elected in three years, I will be deeply shocked.
 
2012-10-21 09:22:47 PM

Kittypie070: jjorsett 2012-10-21 03:44:06 PM

This is the forth article I've seen recently predicting social unrest if Romney wins. The lefties are whipping themselves into a pre-loss frenzy and telling their minions that they're justified in rioting if they don't get what they want.

Stop lying, moran.

In the Virginia Republican Committee newsletter, there is nothing to imply that protecting Americans from the "prey of the rich on the poor" is the reason for calling for armed rebellion. According to the newsletter, President Obama, is a "political socialist ideologue unlike anything world history has ever witnessed or recognized," and that the only option is "armed revolution should we fail with the power of the vote in November:" If one is confused as to what Republicans consider is a "political socialist ideologue," the newsletter claims President Obama "shuns biblical praise, handicaps economic ability, disrespects the honor of earned military might," and that under Obama, "the government is out of control, and this opportunity, must not be forsaken for we shall not have any coarse (sic) but armed revolution."

Republicans calling for armed insurrection against the government is nothing new, and few are apt to forget congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-MN) saying "I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back," and went on to specifically cite Jefferson's quote from 1787. Bachmann continued that, "we the people are going to have to fight back hard if we're not going to lose our country," and encouraged Americans "to do everything we can to thwart the Democrats at every turn," and apparently that included armed rebellion.


what does GOP stupid have to do with this author's stupid?
 
2012-10-21 09:25:25 PM

clowncar on fire: Maybe doesn't mean anything but our predominantly "vote democrat" neighborhood has a heck of a lot more "vote republican" signs out in the front yards than the last go round. 200k+ homes sandwiched in between 300k to 900k+ home neighborhoods.
I'm guessing moderates had a change of heart?


"Anecdote" is not the plural of "data".

From what I've seen, no one, even in the diehard GOP strongholds of the NE, has Romney signs out this year. I didn't see any Romney signs until a month ago, and the first one took me by surprise, as I couldn't figure out why it seemed strange, until I realized it was the first I'd seen.

Contrast that to four years ago when there were plenty of McCain signs to be seen, especially in (heavily Democratic) South Philly. My favorite were "Italian-Americans for McCain" which translates to "We're not voting for the eggplant."
 
2012-10-21 09:45:34 PM

Dwight_Yeast: clowncar on fire: Maybe doesn't mean anything but our predominantly "vote democrat" neighborhood has a heck of a lot more "vote republican" signs out in the front yards than the last go round. 200k+ homes sandwiched in between 300k to 900k+ home neighborhoods.
I'm guessing moderates had a change of heart?

"Anecdote" is not the plural of "data".

From what I've seen, no one, even in the diehard GOP strongholds of the NE, has Romney signs out this year. I didn't see any Romney signs until a month ago, and the first one took me by surprise, as I couldn't figure out why it seemed strange, until I realized it was the first I'd seen.

Contrast that to four years ago when there were plenty of McCain signs to be seen, especially in (heavily Democratic) South Philly. My favorite were "Italian-Americans for McCain" which translates to "We're not voting for the eggplant."


I live in heavily Republican Orange County (CA), and oddly, the only election signs I've seen have gone up in the last week; and they have ALL, without exception, been local politicians. I've not seen one endorsing either Obama OR Romney.

Maybe just an attempt to keep the peace locally.
 
2012-10-21 09:48:32 PM

Mugato: Can you republicans put down the farking partisan bullshiat for two seconds and honestly say that there's nothing shady about Romney's son buying out voting machines in a swing state? If you saw that in a comedy movie you would yell bullshiat.


This issue is so farking silly.

From what I've read, tagg's firm has co-invested with the PE firm that bought intercivic years ago, on completely separate deals.

Only a tinfoil hatted lunatic would be concerned about this. I'm embarrassed for you and any others who are making hay here.
 
2012-10-21 09:51:53 PM

Mugato: Can you republicans put down the farking partisan bullshiat for two seconds and honestly say that there's nothing shady about Romney's son buying out voting machines in a swing state? If you saw that in a comedy movie you would yell bullshiat.


the people who yell at movies aren't in a strongly Republican demographic
 
2012-10-21 09:57:17 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-21 10:00:52 PM

skullkrusher: the people who yell at movies aren't in a strongly Republican demographic


Yeah, poor folks never vote republican...
 
2012-10-21 10:01:35 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: dickfreckle: Delay: Weaver95: it would strike me as questionable...but not conclusive.

Fair enough, but why would Romney do such a questionable thing if it were not necessary. Seems as if he knows not owning the voting machines, which have no paper audit, they're black box machines, would be worse for him than not owning them. Same reasoning with the release of his income taxes. Romney knew showing them would be worse than the implication that he had stuff to hide.

This. The Romney clan has to know that even the appearance of impropriety is to be avoided at all costs. So why this curious investment? What could possibly be the motivation of the Romneys, knowing it doesn't pass the smell test?

They're rich and a significant percentage of the voting public would vote for them if Romney was caught on tape raping kittens, just so long as he had the R after his name. Rich in this country? Neither the law nor rules of polite society apply to you. Politically connected on the right? The media will never dare look askance at you. The Romneys are both.


The media's utter lack of teeth is really beginning to piss me off. I'm 38, and even though I was a very young man I recall a time when the press was a pack of wolves and you hoped not to cross them. Well, they still are, but it's more about celebrity now.

Sadly, were a member of Obama's family to have investments in voting machines, the press would be on fire for weeks. Were Democratic operatives responsible for the rash of voter fraud cases - no matter how minor - the press and FOX (note that I separated them) would be in a feeding frenzy. So why, WHY, are Republicans getting a pass on virtually everything they do, unless it's as mind-numbingly stupid as "legitimate rape?" And they only reported on that because they had no choice. It was already viral.

That anyone can look me in the face and, without a trace of a sarcastic grin, claim that the media is "liberal" just astounds me. Hell, look at the Tea Party vs. OWS. The TP got sh*t-tons of coverage on all major networks and in all newspapers/periodicals, and it was mostly to probe their side of the issues and not to mock them. OWS?

DRUM CIRCLES! HIPPIES!
 
2012-10-21 10:24:54 PM
At one time O was personable. Maybe more than Hillary.

Then he got all smarmy....
 
2012-10-21 10:25:04 PM

Weaver95: RedPhoenix122:
The worst part is it's not in the past, Bain is about to close down one in Freeport, Illinois and I'm noticing a small amount, but not much, discussion about it, and a complete silence from the Romney camp.

Also, per my list earlier, voter coercion. Several companies are now threatening to lay off people if Obama is reelected. The total amount of BS in this election is staggering.

OWS ran into the same sort of wall of silence. the corporate press DOES NOT want to talk about US companies moving jobs out of this country. they'd rather talk about the weather, or which hollywood starlett is sleeping around with which director/producer. anything other than our fiscal problems or the very well documented flaws in what we laughingly call 'capitalism'. people are angry...but they're not yet starving. we're in that weird 'in between' phase when everyone is mad as hell about the elite bankers but it's too early to start shooting the bastards.

for my part, I am continually amazed at rank and file republicans who think Romney (or the GOP in general) cares about the plight of workers in this country. there are piles of evidence that the GOP doesn't give a shiat about helping the middle class. yet, they still keep right on voting Republican. sometimes you just have to let 'em burn.


You could say the same thing about the military people and the way the Republicans treat veterans. I actually had a republican tell me that the GOP put a secret hold on the COLA bill for vets because it didn't contain any COLA's. I just had to say are you farking kidding me.
 
2012-10-21 10:36:37 PM
Fraud is a serious issue when it's black people and democrats.


When it's republicans it's a conspiracy theory.


How predictable.
 
2012-10-21 10:50:51 PM
skullkrusher 2012-10-21 09:22:47 PM

Kittypie070: jjorsett 2012-10-21 03:44:06 PM

what does GOP stupid have to do with this author's stupid?


FFS, look at the goddamn link Skully.

Dimwit is claiming it's Duh Durty Hippyz that are plotting to riot and I showed up his witless lying ass as WRONG.

Don't you dare start trying to mix up one of your nifty little massive thread shiatting argument clinics with ME.
 
2012-10-21 10:52:00 PM
And it was jjorsett I was addressing, not the author of the article.

So SHUT IT.
 
2012-10-21 10:57:10 PM

cc_rider: Not to say the general premise of this article isn't something to be concerned about, but I believe there are several more credible sources about voter suppression/dirty tricks/GOP fraud than an an article written by some 9/11 troofer on an Iranian state news site, no?


There are. An article by Victoria Collier in November's Harper's Magazine (not available online), from which much of this piece seems to be cribbed, makes a very strong case that not only can vote rigging happen here, it has happened here, and that today's computerized, privatized voting technology (only two corporations are, between them, responsible for counting more than half of the votes cast in the United States) has created opportunities for vote tampering that Huey Long and the folks at Tammany Hall could only dream about. She traces concerns about electronic voting systems back to Chuck Hagel's 1996 Senate campaign against Nebraska governor Ben Nelson. Despite pre-election polls that had the candidates essentially tied, Hagel won the election by 15 percentage points. Until shortly before the election, Hagel had been chairman of the company whose machines counted those votes: Election Systems and Software (ES&S).She covers most of the more suspiciously improbable election victories of the last 15 years, including Saxby Chambliss; Alvin Greene, the unemployed accused sex offender who won the South Carolina Democratic primary race to challenge Jim DeMint without campaigning (absentee ballots, counted by hand, ran as high as 84 percent in favor of his opponent in some precincts); Rick Scott; Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice David Prosser; and Massachusetts senator Scott Brown, who lost in locations where ballots were counted by hand, but made up for it by winning in communities where votes were tallied by computer.despite the fact that computerized districts were actually more Democratic by voter registration and electoral history than hand-count districts. She's careful not to overstate the case for fraud in any of these cases, but constructs a very strong argument that we should at least be very nervous about these easily hackable voting machines and the often unsavory characters who run the companies that provide them and control their software.

Personally, I feel we should follow the lead of Ireland and Germany and mandate that no presidential or congressional election results are official until every vote has been counted by hand under public observation. We can still use electronic machines to compile preliminary results, but those results should be considered no more reliable, or official, than exit polls.

Will never happen in my lifetime. Most Americans seem much more concerned whether or not a football player is "down by contact" before he fumbles than whether election results are legitimate. But a man can dream, right?
 
2012-10-21 11:12:55 PM

mab1823: Chimperror2: If Dems refrain from petitioning the courts to keep stronghold polling places open longer in close districts, I'll pay attention to "voter suppression" nonsense.

What would be wrong with allowing more people to vote?


Nothing. Extend it everywhere. Early voting. Late voting. Whatever. But that's not the way Dems work. It's always someplace where they can shape the vote in a close race. Look at the last 5 presidential elections and which areas were petitioned and ordered by the court to stay open later than all the other polling places (Hint: Dems ran buses to those places with a free food, provisional ballots, no ID required and debit cards for the liquor store later.) No one petitions the court and none are granted for conservative precincts in hotly contested districts. If you're not in line when the polls close, you don't vote in conservative precincts. Dick Gephardt did this in East St. Louis in 2000 election when both the presidential and congressional elections were close. East St. Louis has more registered voters than residents. Hmmmmmm. coincidence? Dems did this in Ohio in 2004 but only wanted the minority precinct to have extended hours even though the conservative and liberal precintcs had roughly the same number of voting machines, ballots, registered voters, etc. Dems got an extra two hours to get people to the polls in a precinct that had a 2:1 advantage for Democrats.

I doubt Dems would be open to the same thing being turned on them if conservative districts were given an additional 2 to 4 hours to get out the vote after the exit polling showed exactly how any voters they would need to get to the polls in those hours given precinct demographics..
 
2012-10-21 11:33:38 PM
Will all the GOP shenanigans get them closer to winning the election than they otherwise would have? Certainly.
Will it be enough to put them over the top? Probably not.

All of this shiat that the GOP is pulling is the only way they can even enjoy a 1 in 3 chance of winning.
 
2012-10-21 11:47:15 PM

Mugato: Can you republicans put down the farking partisan bullshiat for two seconds and honestly say that there's nothing shady about Romney's son buying out voting machines in a swing state?


Its definitely shady. This particular article is pretty wack though. I would imagine the Obama campaign has people watching Tagg and his investments quite carefully.
 
2012-10-21 11:49:28 PM

Gyrfalcon: Maybe just an attempt to keep the peace locally.


I don't think most people care, this time around. All the noise (on both sides, but especially from the Right) is coming from a very small part of the populace.

In the short term, it doesn't really matter if Romney is elected. What worries me is the damage he'll do in the long-term by refusing to regulate the banking industry and by lowering taxes.

We're at a tipping point in history
 
2012-10-21 11:55:09 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Gyrfalcon: Maybe just an attempt to keep the peace locally.

I don't think most people care, this time around. All the noise (on both sides, but especially from the Right) is coming from a very small part of the populace.

In the short term, it doesn't really matter if Romney is elected. What worries me is the damage he'll do in the long-term by refusing to regulate the banking industry and by lowering taxes.

We're at a tipping point in history


Meh we'll just keep borrowing.

Maybe we can put together a "guest worker" program where the 47% who don't pay taxes can make iPhones in China. That'll fix 'em. :D
 
2012-10-22 12:07:41 AM

Generation_D: TomD9938: FTA : Former President Jimmy Carter says that American elections, unlike elections in banana republics, are so hopelessly corrupt that they are not even worth monitoring

Well, it's certainly true that Carter won by fraud, so the writer may have a point.

What derpiverse did you come up with that one from.

The recognized fraudulent presidencies are usually accepted to be Rutherford B Hayes, Warren Glamiel Harding, John Fitzgerald Kennedy and George W. Bush.


Citation needed; the Harding administration was certainly crooked, but if there were any noteworthy shenanigans in the 1920 election, they've escaped the notice of history.
 
2012-10-22 12:10:34 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Gyrfalcon: Maybe just an attempt to keep the peace locally.

I don't think most people care, this time around. All the noise (on both sides, but especially from the Right) is coming from a very small part of the populace.

In the short term, it doesn't really matter if Romney is elected. What worries me is the damage he'll do in the long-term by refusing to regulate the banking industry and by lowering taxes.

We're at a tipping point in history


I would think that the biggest long term concern would be Supreme Court appointments, especially if the GOP also manage to take the Senate.
 
2012-10-22 12:16:33 AM

apoptotic: Dwight_Yeast: Gyrfalcon: Maybe just an attempt to keep the peace locally.

I don't think most people care, this time around. All the noise (on both sides, but especially from the Right) is coming from a very small part of the populace.

In the short term, it doesn't really matter if Romney is elected. What worries me is the damage he'll do in the long-term by refusing to regulate the banking industry and by lowering taxes.

We're at a tipping point in history

I would think that the biggest long term concern would be Supreme Court appointments, especially if the GOP also manage to take the Senate.


Pfft. They're going to take the Senate, and when the Supreme Court refuses to go back to precedent regarding the Romney/Obama Electoral tie, the Republican-controlled House will confirm Romney.

Bet me.
 
2012-10-22 12:54:01 AM

whidbey: apoptotic: Dwight_Yeast: Gyrfalcon: Maybe just an attempt to keep the peace locally.

I don't think most people care, this time around. All the noise (on both sides, but especially from the Right) is coming from a very small part of the populace.

In the short term, it doesn't really matter if Romney is elected. What worries me is the damage he'll do in the long-term by refusing to regulate the banking industry and by lowering taxes.

We're at a tipping point in history

I would think that the biggest long term concern would be Supreme Court appointments, especially if the GOP also manage to take the Senate.

Pfft. They're going to take the Senate, and when the Supreme Court refuses to go back to precedent regarding the Romney/Obama Electoral tie, the Republican-controlled House will confirm Romney.

Bet me.


Give me three-digit odds and I'll consider it.
 
2012-10-22 12:56:34 AM

vygramul: whidbey: apoptotic: Dwight_Yeast: Gyrfalcon: Maybe just an attempt to keep the peace locally.

I don't think most people care, this time around. All the noise (on both sides, but especially from the Right) is coming from a very small part of the populace.

In the short term, it doesn't really matter if Romney is elected. What worries me is the damage he'll do in the long-term by refusing to regulate the banking industry and by lowering taxes.

We're at a tipping point in history

I would think that the biggest long term concern would be Supreme Court appointments, especially if the GOP also manage to take the Senate.

Pfft. They're going to take the Senate, and when the Supreme Court refuses to go back to precedent regarding the Romney/Obama Electoral tie, the Republican-controlled House will confirm Romney.

Bet me.

Give me three-digit odds and I'll consider it.


Aw come on. You gotta love the image of the newly elected Republican House choosing Romney.

Panrific!
 
2012-10-22 12:57:30 AM
Who cares? Its all theater anyway. We chose between two carefully selected front men, already groomed and ready to implement the wishes of those with money. Its an open secret, but we have grown too distracted, lazy, and complacent to care more than a few angry internet post or a nice day in the sunshine holding up misspelled signs.
 
2012-10-22 01:02:11 AM

whidbey: Aw come on. You gotta love the image of the newly elected Republican House choosing Romney.

Panrific!


The gloating would be epic, that's for sure.
 
2012-10-22 01:03:03 AM

nmemkha: Who cares? Its all theater anyway. We chose between two carefully selected front men, already groomed and ready to implement the wishes of those with money. Its an open secret, but we have grown too distracted, lazy, and complacent to care more than a few angry internet post or a nice day in the sunshine holding up misspelled signs.


In other words, just because they let you vote for your favorite clown doesn't change who owns the circus.
 
2012-10-22 01:03:45 AM

nmemkha: Who cares? Its all theater anyway. We chose between two carefully selected front men, already groomed and ready to implement the wishes of those with money. Its an open secret, but we have grown too distracted, lazy, and complacent to care more than a few angry internet post or a nice day in the sunshine holding up misspelled signs.


Actually, you're welcome to study the rather long list of accomplishments this administration has achieved and take that smug "both parties are the same" crap and stuff it.
 
2012-10-22 01:14:24 AM

Spaz-master: [www.bloggernews.net image 450x338]

He's destroyed countries with far less BS


Who is that? Apart from the hair that looks just like my dad.
 
2012-10-22 01:15:50 AM

whidbey: nmemkha: Who cares? Its all theater anyway. We chose between two carefully selected front men, already groomed and ready to implement the wishes of those with money. Its an open secret, but we have grown too distracted, lazy, and complacent to care more than a few angry internet post or a nice day in the sunshine holding up misspelled signs.

Actually, you're welcome to study the rather long list of accomplishments this administration has achieved and take that smug "both parties are the same" crap and stuff it.


You would have thought that became obvious after we invaded Iraq. Then again, there are plenty of new 20 year-olds who were 11 in 2003 and think Gore would have also invaded Iraq. Seems like that should be enough of a difference to disabuse anyone of that silly faux-libertarian BSAB rebelliousness.
 
2012-10-22 01:18:47 AM

vygramul: that silly faux-libertarian BSAB rebelliousness.


this
 
2012-10-22 01:21:46 AM

whidbey: nmemkha: Who cares? Its all theater anyway. We chose between two carefully selected front men, already groomed and ready to implement the wishes of those with money. Its an open secret, but we have grown too distracted, lazy, and complacent to care more than a few angry internet post or a nice day in the sunshine holding up misspelled signs.

Actually, you're welcome to study the rather long list of accomplishments this administration has achieved and take that smug "both parties are the same" crap and stuff it.


It not substantive change. The problems we are facing are the result of the status quo, especially our corporate, monetary, and banking systems. Our infrastructure is crumbing, our educational system is a mess. Our banking and investor sectors are rife with corruption; the list goes on and on. While people quibble over social issues and cheer pittances like Obamacare, the real problems get kicked down the line where they continue to balloon beyond any hope of rectification.
 
2012-10-22 01:29:06 AM

nmemkha: whidbey: nmemkha: Who cares? Its all theater anyway. We chose between two carefully selected front men, already groomed and ready to implement the wishes of those with money. Its an open secret, but we have grown too distracted, lazy, and complacent to care more than a few angry internet post or a nice day in the sunshine holding up misspelled signs.

Actually, you're welcome to study the rather long list of accomplishments this administration has achieved and take that smug "both parties are the same" crap and stuff it.

It not substantive change.


Your opinion.

The problems we are facing are the result of the status quo, especially our corporate, monetary, and banking systems. Our infrastructure is crumbing, our educational system is a mess. Our banking and investor sectors are rife with corruption; the list goes on and on. While people quibble over social issues and cheer pittances like Obamacare, the real problems get kicked down the line where they continue to balloon beyond any hope of rectification.

Well then we had better stop electing Republicans and other selfish socially conservative types to office.

We're still way better off if we put into practice the goals this administration has been proposing. And you know it.
 
2012-10-22 01:35:25 AM

whidbey: nmemkha: whidbey: nmemkha: Who cares? Its all theater anyway. We chose between two carefully selected front men, already groomed and ready to implement the wishes of those with money. Its an open secret, but we have grown too distracted, lazy, and complacent to care more than a few angry internet post or a nice day in the sunshine holding up misspelled signs.

Actually, you're welcome to study the rather long list of accomplishments this administration has achieved and take that smug "both parties are the same" crap and stuff it.

It not substantive change.

Your opinion.

The problems we are facing are the result of the status quo, especially our corporate, monetary, and banking systems. Our infrastructure is crumbing, our educational system is a mess. Our banking and investor sectors are rife with corruption; the list goes on and on. While people quibble over social issues and cheer pittances like Obamacare, the real problems get kicked down the line where they continue to balloon beyond any hope of rectification.

Well then we had better stop electing Republicans and other selfish socially conservative types to office.

We're still way better off if we put into practice the goals this administration has been proposing. And you know it.


Its going to be Evil vs Lesser Evil from here on out. The problem will be the Lesser Evil will be a little more evil each iteration.

However the GOP will get us to end goal of an oligarchic corpocracy a lot faster. We will keep the trappings of democracy, but money alone will be true measure of political power. We will have the best government money can buy and the one our lazy asses deserve.
 
2012-10-22 01:35:58 AM

whidbey: In the short term, it doesn't really matter if Romney is elected. What worries me is the damage he'll do in the long-term by refusing to regulate the banking industry and by lowering taxes.

We're at a tipping point in history

Meh we'll just keep borrowing.


It's not the debt that worries me.

It's the next financial crisis which is coming sooner rather than later if we don't regulate and control Wall St. Unless we return to something like Glass-Steagall, we'll see another major economic crisis in this decade.

And lowering taxes is a problem because it will serve to widen the gap between rich and poor and wipe out what's left of the middle classes.

Combine these two elements and things get very bad very quickly.
 
2012-10-22 01:42:16 AM

nmemkha: Its going to be Evil vs Lesser Evil from here on out. The problem will be the Lesser Evil will be a little more evil each iteration.


The Democratic Party is not a "lesser evil."

Again, you're welcome to actually study the accomplishments of the past 4 years, but I doubt you will.

The fact is that we need another Democratic Party President after Obama, and then maybe even after that. It's the only way this country is going to progress in lieu of a 3rd party.

Accept it.

However the GOP will get us to end goal of an oligarchic corpocracy a lot faster. We will keep the trappings of democracy, but money alone will be true measure of political power. We will have the best government money can buy and the one our lazy asses deserve.

Oh so both political parties aren't actually the same, there's a notable difference.

Confuse much?
 
2012-10-22 01:48:39 AM

whidbey: nmemkha: whidbey: nmemkha: Who cares? Its all theater anyway. We chose between two carefully selected front men, already groomed and ready to implement the wishes of those with money. Its an open secret, but we have grown too distracted, lazy, and complacent to care more than a few angry internet post or a nice day in the sunshine holding up misspelled signs.

Actually, you're welcome to study the rather long list of accomplishments this administration has achieved and take that smug "both parties are the same" crap and stuff it.

It not substantive change.

Your opinion.

The problems we are facing are the result of the status quo, especially our corporate, monetary, and banking systems. Our infrastructure is crumbing, our educational system is a mess. Our banking and investor sectors are rife with corruption; the list goes on and on. While people quibble over social issues and cheer pittances like Obamacare, the real problems get kicked down the line where they continue to balloon beyond any hope of rectification.

Well then we had better stop electing Republicans and other selfish socially conservative types to office.

We're still way better off if we put into practice the goals this administration has been proposing. And you know it.


Both are not necessarily untrue. Some things need to get done and hence get done despite the bipartisan bickering; or get done when one side relinquishes "it's" version and goes with "their" version that isn't really radically different but has somebody else's name as a sponsor. And some things, like the economic and banking problems, actually benefit both sides of the aisle, with the result that neither proposes changes. You don't think it's only the rich Republicans who benefit from the current tax laws, do you? Or that Boehner was speaking only for his GOP cronies when he said he got 98% of what he wanted?

And some things are beyond the reach of partisan politics and are the result of the weight of too much contradictory law and regulation. Infrastructure collapse and educational disasters have come about not because of Republican vs. Democrat quarreling, but more because of too much legal and regulatory layering; budget cuts in other areas; environmental studies, legal wrangling, NIMBYism...all that takes place at the local level and may never reach the state or Federal politicians. But laying it all off on the other side is a great way to keep the status quo in place--it keeps the hoipolloi distracted from fixing the actual issues.
 
2012-10-22 02:03:13 AM

Gyrfalcon: And some things, like the economic and banking problems, actually benefit both sides of the aisle, with the result that neither proposes changes. You don't think it's only the rich Republicans who benefit from the current tax laws, do you? Or that Boehner was speaking only for his GOP cronies when he said he got 98% of what he wanted?


The Democratic party clearly wants more regulation of business, and higher taxes for the wealthy.

I don't see anything comparable to this ideology in the Republican ranks.

And some things are beyond the reach of partisan politics and are the result of the weight of too much contradictory law and regulation. Infrastructure collapse and educational disasters have come about not because of Republican vs. Democrat quarreling, but more because of too much legal and regulatory layering; budget cuts in other areas; environmental studies, legal wrangling, NIMBYism...all that takes place at the local level and may never reach the state or Federal politicians. But laying it all off on the other side is a great way to keep the status quo in place--it keeps the hoipolloi distracted from fixing the actual issues.

While I understand that big money and its associated business interests are fighting to keep things that way, the fact is that people have a lot more of a chance of changing that status quo with the Democrats in office. This is a fact.

And until the possibility of a 3rd party becomes more realistic, we should be throwing all of our support into the Democratic Party, it really is that simple. Otherwise, enjoy living off the grid and not participating in the system.
 
2012-10-22 02:04:45 AM

nmemkha: whidbey: nmemkha: Who cares? Its all theater anyway. We chose between two carefully selected front men, already groomed and ready to implement the wishes of those with money. Its an open secret, but we have grown too distracted, lazy, and complacent to care more than a few angry internet post or a nice day in the sunshine holding up misspelled signs.

Actually, you're welcome to study the rather long list of accomplishments this administration has achieved and take that smug "both parties are the same" crap and stuff it.

It not substantive change. The problems we are facing are the result of the status quo, especially our corporate, monetary, and banking systems. Our infrastructure is crumbing, our educational system is a mess. Our banking and investor sectors are rife with corruption; the list goes on and on. While people quibble over social issues and cheer pittances like Obamacare, the real problems get kicked down the line where they continue to balloon beyond any hope of rectification.


Pop quiz: during which administration was the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau created, and which candidate would eliminate it? Hint: Both sides are not the same.
 
2012-10-22 02:14:09 AM

apoptotic: Both sides are not the same.


Honestly, having to explain why they aren't really really gets old.

Libertarians are the 2012 equivalent of the Me Generation....
 
2012-10-22 02:24:47 AM

whidbey: Gyrfalcon: And some things, like the economic and banking problems, actually benefit both sides of the aisle, with the result that neither proposes changes. You don't think it's only the rich Republicans who benefit from the current tax laws, do you? Or that Boehner was speaking only for his GOP cronies when he said he got 98% of what he wanted?

The Democratic party clearly wants more regulation of business, and higher taxes for the wealthy.

I don't see anything comparable to this ideology in the Republican ranks.

And some things are beyond the reach of partisan politics and are the result of the weight of too much contradictory law and regulation. Infrastructure collapse and educational disasters have come about not because of Republican vs. Democrat quarreling, but more because of too much legal and regulatory layering; budget cuts in other areas; environmental studies, legal wrangling, NIMBYism...all that takes place at the local level and may never reach the state or Federal politicians. But laying it all off on the other side is a great way to keep the status quo in place--it keeps the hoipolloi distracted from fixing the actual issues.

While I understand that big money and its associated business interests are fighting to keep things that way, the fact is that people have a lot more of a chance of changing that status quo with the Democrats in office. This is a fact.

And until the possibility of a 3rd party becomes more realistic, we should be throwing all of our support into the Democratic Party, it really is that simple. Otherwise, enjoy living off the grid and not participating in the system.


I never said one side wasn't worse than the other. The Evil vs. Lesser evil comments should give you guys a clue. I assert it moot, given both sides are beholden to the same interests. Barring revolution, or a real 3rd party that truly embraces democratic ideals rather than just pandering to them, things are not going to change. That said, I am voting Democratic because I want to believe I live in a free and democratic country where my rights are secure and my vote matters. But, I must wrestle with the cognitive dissonance caused by the truth I see in our leaders not jiving with ideals I was taught.
 
2012-10-22 02:26:34 AM

nmemkha: The Evil vs. Lesser evil comments should give you guys a clue


Oh trust me, it does. It makes me want to lay into anyone making that kind of absurd cynical contention even harder.
 
2012-10-22 02:31:04 AM

whidbey: nmemkha: The Evil vs. Lesser evil comments should give you guys a clue

Oh trust me, it does. It makes me want to lay into anyone making that kind of absurd cynical contention even harder.


Ever talk a WWE fan about their "side"?
 
2012-10-22 02:33:55 AM

nmemkha: whidbey: nmemkha: The Evil vs. Lesser evil comments should give you guys a clue

Oh trust me, it does. It makes me want to lay into anyone making that kind of absurd cynical contention even harder.

Ever talk a WWE fan about their "side"?


Yeah I know you believe both parties are like fans cheerleading their favorite baseball teams.

That's actually part of the problem here. I guess I really don't get where someone would so willfully ignore an elected leadership's accomplishments and achieved goals while at the same time offering no other viable plan or alternative.
 
2012-10-22 02:36:58 AM

whidbey: nmemkha: whidbey: nmemkha: The Evil vs. Lesser evil comments should give you guys a clue

Oh trust me, it does. It makes me want to lay into anyone making that kind of absurd cynical contention even harder.

Ever talk a WWE fan about their "side"?

Yeah I know you believe both parties are like fans cheerleading their favorite baseball teams.

That's actually part of the problem here. I guess I really don't get where someone would so willfully ignore an elected leadership's accomplishments and achieved goals while at the same time offering no other viable plan or alternative.


There is no alternative, democracy is a failure. The same thing happened that happened to every human system of governance: a tiny few wind up with nearly all the resource and power. It seems we cannot sustain any form of governance other than benevolent dictatorships.
 
2012-10-22 02:38:13 AM

nmemkha: That said, I am voting Democratic because I want to believe I live in a free and democratic country where my rights are secure and my vote matters. But, I must wrestle with the cognitive dissonance caused by the truth I see in our leaders not jiving with ideals I was taught.


Well, at least we agree on something. But again, I don't understand how you would propose any alternative that doesn't involve the political art of compromise. There is no all or nothing.

And if it does seem that the 1% get the better end of the bargain, it's our fault for not being more directly involved in the process. I really do feel that apathy is the real culprit, not two political parties equating in some square peg/round hole fashion.
 
2012-10-22 02:41:58 AM

nmemkha: There is no alternative, democracy is a failure. The same thing happened that happened to every human system of governance: a tiny few wind up with nearly all the resource and power. It seems we cannot sustain any form of governance other than benevolent dictatorships.


There's no reason to believe that we can't make our system of representative democracy work. The fact is, it usually does.

The mistake is allowing the 1% to take that much control, and we're at the point in our society where we recognize it's possible to change paradigms through regulation and other means.
 
2012-10-22 02:47:49 AM

whidbey: nmemkha: That said, I am voting Democratic because I want to believe I live in a free and democratic country where my rights are secure and my vote matters. But, I must wrestle with the cognitive dissonance caused by the truth I see in our leaders not jiving with ideals I was taught.

Well, at least we agree on something. But again, I don't understand how you would propose any alternative that doesn't involve the political art of compromise. There is no all or nothing.

And if it does seem that the 1% get the better end of the bargain, it's our fault for not being more directly involved in the process. I really do feel that apathy is the real culprit, not two political parties equating in some square peg/round hole fashion.


Its not the system that is at fault, but the implementation. Most political systems look good on paper, but their implementations invariably become corrupted by human failings. Maybe a cycle of revolution is the best we can manage, but that is a sad testament to our inability to overcome our selfish natures and work together for the common good.
 
2012-10-22 02:52:05 AM

nmemkha: Its not the system that is at fault, but the implementation. Most political systems look good on paper, but their implementations invariably become corrupted by human failings. Maybe a cycle of revolution is the best we can manage, but that is a sad testament to our inability to overcome our selfish natures and work together for the common good.


OK so while you're doing all that internalizing, I'm going to do what I can and actually put some effort into accomplishing things with other like-minded people. Bonus: very likely all Democrats.
 
2012-10-22 02:53:21 AM

whidbey: nmemkha: Its not the system that is at fault, but the implementation. Most political systems look good on paper, but their implementations invariably become corrupted by human failings. Maybe a cycle of revolution is the best we can manage, but that is a sad testament to our inability to overcome our selfish natures and work together for the common good.

OK so while you're doing all that internalizing, I'm going to do what I can and actually put some effort into accomplishing things with other like-minded people. Bonus: very likely all Democrats.


Good luck. I will grab a bucket and help you, but that gash in the side of our boat is awfully big.
 
2012-10-22 02:54:38 AM

nmemkha: whidbey: nmemkha: Its not the system that is at fault, but the implementation. Most political systems look good on paper, but their implementations invariably become corrupted by human failings. Maybe a cycle of revolution is the best we can manage, but that is a sad testament to our inability to overcome our selfish natures and work together for the common good.

OK so while you're doing all that internalizing, I'm going to do what I can and actually put some effort into accomplishing things with other like-minded people. Bonus: very likely all Democrats.

Good luck. I will grab a bucket and help you, but that gash in the side of our boat is awfully big.


Or maybe I will just say "fark it" and rearrange the deck chairs with everyone else. Seems less stressful.
 
2012-10-22 02:59:16 AM

nmemkha: whidbey: nmemkha: Its not the system that is at fault, but the implementation. Most political systems look good on paper, but their implementations invariably become corrupted by human failings. Maybe a cycle of revolution is the best we can manage, but that is a sad testament to our inability to overcome our selfish natures and work together for the common good.

OK so while you're doing all that internalizing, I'm going to do what I can and actually put some effort into accomplishing things with other like-minded people. Bonus: very likely all Democrats.

Good luck. I will grab a bucket and help you, but that gash in the side of our boat is awfully big.


Thanks. Sorry if I harshed you out. I just don't see it as conspiratorial as you do. I really believe the problem is antiquated conservative republicanism, and that representative democracy is a true foil to anarchy.
 
2012-10-22 03:00:33 AM
OK, too many syllables there. Time for bed.
 
2012-10-22 03:06:32 AM

whidbey: nmemkha: whidbey: nmemkha: Its not the system that is at fault, but the implementation. Most political systems look good on paper, but their implementations invariably become corrupted by human failings. Maybe a cycle of revolution is the best we can manage, but that is a sad testament to our inability to overcome our selfish natures and work together for the common good.

OK so while you're doing all that internalizing, I'm going to do what I can and actually put some effort into accomplishing things with other like-minded people. Bonus: very likely all Democrats.

Good luck. I will grab a bucket and help you, but that gash in the side of our boat is awfully big.

Thanks. Sorry if I harshed you out. I just don't see it as conspiratorial as you do. I really believe the problem is antiquated conservative republicanism, and that representative democracy is a true foil to anarchy.


No worries, I am heartened by your zeal to prevent the inevitable. Its not about a conspiracy, its about the cycle of human governance. As Robert Frost wrote, "nothing gold can stay." We are on a cyclic downswing and no matter who we elect, bad times are coming. We have too much comeuppance due to escape it. The problem is that, like always, the brunt of it will fall on the working classes.

Maybe this time we will learn from our mistakes. Just maybe ... Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot.
 
2012-10-22 03:07:16 AM

whidbey: OK, too many syllables there. Time for bed.


Have a good night.
 
2012-10-22 07:21:39 AM

whidbey: It's going to be Florida2: Electric Boogaloo, isn't it?


No, Ohio in 2004 was Florida 2. This will be Florida 3: This Time It's Personal.
 
2012-10-22 07:47:07 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Mugato: Can you republicans put down the farking partisan bullshiat for two seconds and honestly say that there's nothing shady about Romney's son buying out voting machines in a swing state? If you saw that in a comedy movie you would yell bullshiat.

This issue is so farking silly.

From what I've read, tagg's firm has co-invested with the PE firm that bought intercivic years ago, on completely separate deals.

Only a tinfoil hatted lunatic would be concerned about this. I'm embarrassed for you and any others who are making hay here.


LOL. Holy shiat.
 
2012-10-22 09:57:50 AM
And if he does, will Americans -- especially African-Americans -- take to the streets?


Stopped reading right there......
 
2012-10-22 10:50:11 AM

Kittypie070: skullkrusher 2012-10-21 09:22:47 PM

Kittypie070: jjorsett 2012-10-21 03:44:06 PM

what does GOP stupid have to do with this author's stupid?

FFS, look at the goddamn link Skully.

Dimwit is claiming it's Duh Durty Hippyz that are plotting to riot and I showed up his witless lying ass as WRONG.

Don't you dare start trying to mix up one of your nifty little massive thread shiatting argument clinics with ME.


why don't you check the link that's attached to this article?
 
2012-10-22 11:00:07 AM
It worked in 2000 and 2004.

Why didn't it work in 2008?

FTFA: "The fear that Obama supporters in general, and black people in particular, might engage in widespread, unruly protests"

farm1.staticflickr.com
 
2012-10-22 11:08:40 AM
From the article

"If Romney steals the election, and African-Americans pour into the streets, they will be joined, at least in some areas, by angry whites, hispanics, and others."

So this is how the Zombie apocolypse will actually start, mindless Obama supporters taking to the streets!
 
2012-10-22 11:11:25 AM

dinomyar: So this is how the Zombie apocolypse will actually start, mindless Obama supporters taking to the streets!


Well, conservatives won't start the zombie apocalypse. More than 2 healthy teeth are needed to eat human flesh, and I don't know how long dentures stay attached when left unattended.
 
2012-10-22 12:14:48 PM

EyeballKid: dinomyar: So this is how the Zombie apocolypse will actually start, mindless Obama supporters taking to the streets!

Well, conservatives won't start the zombie apocalypse. More than 2 healthy teeth are needed to eat human flesh, and I don't know how long dentures stay attached when left unattended.


But I thought it was the poor democrats that dont have health and dental care! As someone who has lived in the south all my life, the only toothless people I know are poor democrats.
 
2012-10-22 12:18:43 PM
That republicans are using multiple avenues to fraudulently alter the election is indisputable. The specific ways they are doing so remain in question as do their success rate.
 
2012-10-22 01:26:30 PM

whidbey: apoptotic: Both sides are not the same.

Honestly, having to explain why they aren't really really gets old.

Libertarians are the 2012 equivalent of the Me Generation....


Here's a graph of how the two parties have been voting in Congress. Note the recent extremism:

i188.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-22 06:40:34 PM

Kittypie070: skullkrusher 2012-10-21 09:22:47 PM

Kittypie070: jjorsett 2012-10-21 03:44:06 PM

what does GOP stupid have to do with this author's stupid?

FFS, look at the goddamn link Skully.

Dimwit is claiming it's Duh Durty Hippyz that are plotting to riot and I showed up his witless lying ass as WRONG.

Don't you dare start trying to mix up one of your nifty little massive thread shiatting argument clinics with ME.


When you go around picking arguments even with your ideological allies, maybe it's time to book that anger management class your psychiatrist has been hinting about.
 
2012-10-22 09:22:47 PM
jjorsett 2012-10-22 06:40:34 PM

[advice]

skullkrusher 2012-10-22 10:50:11 AM

Kittypie070: skullkrusher 2012-10-21 09:22:47 PM

Kittypie070: jjorsett 2012-10-21 03:44:06 PM

what does GOP stupid have to do with this author's stupid?

FFS, look at the goddamn link Skully.

Dimwit is claiming it's Duh Durty Hippyz that are plotting to riot and I showed up his witless lying ass as WRONG.

Don't you dare start trying to mix up one of your nifty little massive thread shiatting argument clinics with ME.


why don't you check the link that's attached to this article?


Thanks, I will do so.

Oh and jjorsett: [cat offers you tasty cheese popcorn in large bowl]

I wasn't picking arguments, I was trying to head off what I mistakenly thought was about to become a massive 40-post pile of
OH ARGH STAHP IT FER CHRISSAKES and I was doing it bass ackwards.

I LIKE skully but you're right -- I have the fault of letting the Endless Argument Clinic get on my nerves.

Now that I have gakked up that yucky hairball, maybe I should go readjust my head.

Please enjoy the popcorn.  :)
 
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