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(Time)   Time asks if it is all right for teachers to spank your little monkey   (healthland.time.com) divider line 106
    More: Obvious, physical punishment, Oklahoma State University, largest school districts, Texas school districts, cognitive development, hyperactivity, antisocial behavior, teachers  
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5085 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Oct 2012 at 9:00 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-20 02:07:48 AM  
FTFA: Spanking is one of the many things about which parents agree - passionately - to disagree. Most American parents swear by the old adage "Spare the rod, spoil the child," but others are horrified by the very thought of raising a hand to a kid.

Okay. Tell you what, parents. Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.
 
2012-10-20 02:24:02 AM  

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: Spanking is one of the many things about which parents agree - passionately - to disagree. Most American parents swear by the old adage "Spare the rod, spoil the child," but others are horrified by the very thought of raising a hand to a kid.

Okay. Tell you what, parents. Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.


Nope. I'll make sure he behaves in class. If he acts like a clown and needs to be removed, do it. Touch him and now we have a problem. If you're a teacher, you know children. They're like most of FARK; petulant, impulsive and generally ruled by emotion. You signed on as a teacher, you know these things. Deal with them appropriately and assume I, as the parent, want my kid respectful to you. He gives you grief, you call me. I'll deal with him at home. You don't get to hit my child.
 
2012-10-20 02:45:49 AM  

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: Spanking is one of the many things about which parents agree - passionately - to disagree. Most American parents swear by the old adage "Spare the rod, spoil the child," but others are horrified by the very thought of raising a hand to a kid.

Okay. Tell you what, parents. Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.


Leaving aside the fetishistic aspects of spanking, your proposal takes an incredibly complex problem which encompasses a large segment of the population over a significant span of their life, and offers exactly two solutions. c'mon, it's a little more complicated than that, no?

I think spanking is great. Between two well-adjusted adults. As fun as sparring, without having to show up at work with a busted tooth or black eye. But seriously, allowing an adult to spank a kid? someone else's kid? That's wrong. Somewhere between baby-punching wrong and scoutmaster wrong.
 
2012-10-20 07:59:56 AM  

Fark Me To Tears: Okay. Tell you what, parents. Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.


That was almost exactly the agreement we signed with the local church daycare for our kids age 1 to 3. At 3 we sent them to Montessori schools. Strangely, the parents who refused the corporal part had the biggest asshole kids.
 
/our kids never got spanked
//the refusing parents seemed to be on the sign-out list in the middle of the day quite often
 
2012-10-20 09:02:12 AM  
I say just hook them all up to shock collars (you could turn down the voltage!) and let the teacher zap 'em without ever laying a hand on 'em. Teach the little bastards the world will tolerate their shiat and that actions have immediate and mysterious consequences. It's the sort of thing a five year old should learn.
 
2012-10-20 09:02:56 AM  

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: Spanking is one of the many things about which parents agree - passionately - to disagree. Most American parents swear by the old adage "Spare the rod, spoil the child," but others are horrified by the very thought of raising a hand to a kid.

Okay. Tell you what, parents. Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.


Really? Go f*ck yourself. You're an idiot.
 
2012-10-20 09:04:58 AM  
Kids need a few good beatings. Helps them learn that real life isn't all foam covered rounded corners and time outs.

We should bring back washing kids mouths out with soap too. Mention honey boo boo? You're getting soaped.
 
2012-10-20 09:05:10 AM  

Ennuipoet: I say just hook them all up to shock collars (you could turn down the voltage!) and let the teacher zap 'em without ever laying a hand on 'em. Teach the little bastards the world will tolerate their shiat and that actions have immediate and mysterious consequences. It's the sort of thing a five year old should learn.


Or we could just eat them. That would seem like a more moment proposal.

/had to be done
 
2012-10-20 09:12:34 AM  
I definitely need to be spanked retroactively by my 10th grade English teacher.

(I am 42 and she was a hottie fresh out of college, and still is the hawt)

But the question at hand.... My headstrong kid sometimes needs a reminder of who is in charge, so spank away.
 
2012-10-20 09:13:20 AM  
DNRTFA, but I am a public school teacher (in Canada). If you have to resort to corporal discipline in your classroom, you're either unimaginative or just plain bad at your job. There are so many more effective ways to ge tthe kids to behave themselves, why would you bother doing something like spanking when it's so useless AND controversial?

That being said, I'm not against spanking. As a parent, I do see how there are some circumstances where an association with a given dangerous behaviour and "pain" might be effective (e.g. smacking your toddler on the butt if he gets too near a hot kettle). But those kinds of situations never come up in a school setting anyway.
 
2012-10-20 09:14:18 AM  
Here's an even easier program: touch my kid and I break your face. If he/she is a problem, take them out of class. I will discipline them when I bring them home.
 
2012-10-20 09:15:36 AM  

Fark Me To Tears: Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.


Why should parents be expected to drop everything and run simply because the school can only think of one disciplinary policy?
 
2012-10-20 09:16:50 AM  

dugitman: That was almost exactly the agreement we signed with the local church daycare for our kids age 1 to 3. At 3 we sent them to Montessori schools. Strangely, the parents who refused the corporal part had the biggest asshole kids.


Are you saying that your church daycare believed in beating 1, 2 and 3 year olds? Good grief.
 
2012-10-20 09:17:06 AM  
My wife has a little brother that I met when he was ~8. No men in the family, so he had been raised entirely by the women of the family. You can imagine how babied he was. Within six months he understood and respected the term 'upside your head'. Now he pays attention when ordered to do something, less excuses and more action on his part. He went from a kid who could barely operate a Nintendo DS to someone that will eagerly mow my lawn and do other tedious yard work, at the low rate of $1 per job. He's in trouble less at school and gets better grades. My mother-in-law hated my method, but now she's a fan of the phrase. It gets results, just know that eventually they will be bigger than you and may fight back; I have a few years before that comes about.
 
2012-10-20 09:17:55 AM  
My dad told me:

1. Whatever trouble you get in st school, expect worse at home.
2. If you get arrested, don't waste your phone call on me.

He meant it, and I knew it.
 
2012-10-20 09:20:16 AM  

bertgomez: My dad told me:

1. Whatever trouble you get in st school, expect worse at home.
2. If you get arrested, don't waste your phone call on me.

He meant it, and I knew it.


And I'll bet he raised a heartless serial killer.
 
2012-10-20 09:23:55 AM  

orbister: Why should parents be expected to drop everything and run simply because the school can only think of one disciplinary policy?


If you cannot drop everything to deal with your runny shiat of a kid, you don't deserve to be a parent.

/It's a parents job to drop everything for their kid
 
2012-10-20 09:28:51 AM  

orbister: Are you saying that your church daycare believed in beating 1, 2 and 3 year olds? Good grief.


Nah, no kids were 'beaten'. The daycare was run by a group of old ladies who would at most swat a kid on the butt to separate a fight or something. Honestly I never heard of a kid getting taken aside and spanked. They had a whole list of procedures for disciplining kids, with spanking being a last resort type thing you had to sign off on... or alternately- agree to come in immediately and pick up your kid if their other methods weren't working(timeouts, standing in the corner, etc). Also, we're atheists so we only sent the kids there cause it was cheap and we liked the old ladies who worked there. One of them lives in Floriday now, but still remembers both kids' birthdays and sends them a 2 dollar bill through the mail. She keeps up with them through facebook pictures nearly 5 years later. 
 
2012-10-20 09:31:10 AM  
 
2012-10-20 09:37:04 AM  
I would rather them come over and spank my monkey then have sex with students.
 
2012-10-20 09:37:27 AM  
I'm a teacher as well. Totally agree with Gortex. If you can't maintain control of your classroom without resorting to spanking, you probably should consider another profession. There are so many better ways to achieve the desired behavior.
 
2012-10-20 09:37:57 AM  

fluffy2097: If you cannot drop everything to deal with your runny shiat of a kid, you don't deserve to be a parent.

/It's a parents job to drop everything for their kid


It is not the school's job to call the parents in every single time something happens that they would rather not happen.
 
2012-10-20 09:39:33 AM  

Fark Me To Tears: Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.


You don't have the power to properly discipline a child without striking them? You would be the type of teacher whose methods simply bolster misbehavior as students age, making the task of correction, not to mention learning itself, in later years harder on everyone, thus diminishing the patience of latter teachers who resort to similar mindsets.
 
2012-10-20 09:40:51 AM  
I'm a teacher as well. Totally agree with Gortex. If you can't maintain control of your classroom without resorting to spanking, you should probably consider another profession. There are so many better ways to get kids to behave.
 
2012-10-20 09:43:03 AM  

zena: I'm a teacher as well. Totally agree with Gortex. If you can't maintain control of your classroom without resorting to spanking, you probably should consider another profession. There are so many better ways to achieve the desired behavior.


And as an addendum to my above comments: Yeah, there may be a time for spanking kids, but elementary school is probably too late. And a teaching professional should not have to make a decision on whether to use it on your misbehaving kid.
 
2012-10-20 09:44:02 AM  
Why should we only beat children? If you do something I don't approve of, I should get to beat you and no resisting or the beating will continue. Beating people to make them do what you want is barbaric and idiotic.
 
2012-10-20 09:44:17 AM  
a7.typepad.com

Prefers shocking them.
 
2012-10-20 09:46:50 AM  
Well, it's not gonnna spank itself.
 
2012-10-20 09:48:26 AM  
I don't think a teacher should be allowed to spank my kid. But I think that a robot would be okay. The Spankbot 9000. They'd measure body fat and mass and calculate the proper force. If the kid's tough: it would increase the "pop" (noise factor) and "crack" (sting factors) by 5% each swing (until the proper amount of tears and blubbing erupt). It would incorporate lie-detecting tech so it wouldn't be fooled by any crocodile tears.

Also: during the robosmacking, a recording of James Earl Jones' voice would say, "This hurts me more than it does you," and, "I love you, but this is for your own good." If you struggle and cry before the first blow lands it'll say, "Why are you crying? I'll GIVE you something to CRY about!"
 
2012-10-20 09:50:59 AM  
Each pupil and situation should be examined and handled eeperately. Teachers,parents and cops are not always right. Neither are pupils and students. Physical action is just the easiest method.
 
2012-10-20 09:51:40 AM  

Gortex: DNRTFA, but I am a public school teacher (in Canada). If you have to resort to corporal discipline in your classroom, you're either unimaginative or just plain bad at your job. There are so many more effective ways to ge tthe kids to behave themselves, why would you bother doing something like spanking when it's so useless AND controversial?

That being said, I'm not against spanking. As a parent, I do see how there are some circumstances where an association with a given dangerous behaviour and "pain" might be effective (e.g. smacking your toddler on the butt if he gets too near a hot kettle). But those kinds of situations never come up in a school setting anyway.


Thank you for bringing this up! With so many different behavioral supports and interventions available, I don't see why spanking should an option.
 
2012-10-20 09:54:43 AM  

TheSwizz: My wife has a little brother that I met when he was ~8. No men in the family, so he had been raised entirely by the women of the family. You can imagine how babied he was. Within six months he understood and respected the term 'upside your head'. Now he pays attention when ordered to do something, less excuses and more action on his part. He went from a kid who could barely operate a Nintendo DS to someone that will eagerly mow my lawn and do other tedious yard work, at the low rate of $1 per job. He's in trouble less at school and gets better grades. My mother-in-law hated my method, but now she's a fan of the phrase. It gets results, just know that eventually they will be bigger than you and may fight back; I have a few years before that comes about.


What does paying him a dollar to go down on you have to do with the topic at hand?

Oh, punishment, got it.
 
2012-10-20 09:54:57 AM  

Spad31: Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: Spanking is one of the many things about which parents agree - passionately - to disagree. Most American parents swear by the old adage "Spare the rod, spoil the child," but others are horrified by the very thought of raising a hand to a kid.

Okay. Tell you what, parents. Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.

Nope. I'll make sure he behaves in class. If he acts like a clown and needs to be removed, do it. Touch him and now we have a problem. If you're a teacher, you know children. They're like most of FARK; petulant, impulsive and generally ruled by emotion. You signed on as a teacher, you know these things. Deal with them appropriately and assume I, as the parent, want my kid respectful to you. He gives you grief, you call me. I'll deal with him at home. You don't get to hit my child.



If you were effectively dealing with your snowflake they would not need to call you. All removing the snowflake for the class accomplishes is teaching them that if they want to get out to class act up.

As you stated children are "petulant, impulsive and generally ruled by emotion" which means you may not be able to reason with them, that is why you spank. It is something their not fully developed frontal lobe mind understands.

If you do not want to give the schools the authority to keep your snowflake in line then home school him/her so other people's kids do not have to have their education disrupted by your spawn.
.
 
2012-10-20 09:55:33 AM  

zena: I'm a teacher as well. Totally agree with Gortex. If you can't maintain control of your classroom without resorting to spanking, you probably should consider another profession. There are so many better ways to achieve the desired behavior.


Spanking works pretty well . I only got two of them in 12 years of pubic school , Also the punishment was left up to the student .You get a paddling or your parents will be notified and /or you will be be expelled . My grades were not good enough that I could afford to be expelled and I damn sure didn't want my partents knowing that I had a problem at school .
 
2012-10-20 09:56:33 AM  

Feral_and_Preposterous: I don't think a teacher should be allowed to spank my kid. But I think that a robot would be okay. The Spankbot 9000. They'd measure body fat and mass and calculate the proper force. If the kid's tough: it would increase the "pop" (noise factor) and "crack" (sting factors) by 5% each swing (until the proper amount of tears and blubbing erupt). It would incorporate lie-detecting tech so it wouldn't be fooled by any crocodile tears.

Also: during the robosmacking, a recording of James Earl Jones' voice would say, "This hurts me more than it does you," and, "I love you, but this is for your own good." If you struggle and cry before the first blow lands it'll say, "Why are you crying? I'll GIVE you something to CRY about!"


Awesome!
 
2012-10-20 09:58:13 AM  

Fark Me To Tears: Okay. Tell you what, parents. Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.


You do know that those times your father hit you in the face, that was actually child abuse? It's not normal to be treated that way.
 
2012-10-20 10:01:08 AM  

Gortex: DNRTFA, but I am a public school teacher (in Canada). If you have to resort to corporal discipline in your classroom, you're either unimaginative or just plain bad at your job. There are so many more effective ways to ge tthe kids to behave themselves, why would you bother doing something like spanking when it's so useless AND controversial?

That being said, I'm not against spanking. As a parent, I do see how there are some circumstances where an association with a given dangerous behaviour and "pain" might be effective (e.g. smacking your toddler on the butt if he gets too near a hot kettle). But those kinds of situations never come up in a school setting anyway.


Am probably gonna get flamed hard for this, and I really don't care, but the little assholes and biatches that like to treat other kids like shiat and beat them up SHOULD get their asses kicked. Boy or girl, doesn't matter. You wanna be a jerk? Have a taste of your own medicine and see how it feels.
 
2012-10-20 10:03:09 AM  
Which is why you cut off a finger when they screw up.
 
2012-10-20 10:07:52 AM  
People who treat spanking like child abuse annoy the shiat out of me...

/me eagerly signs on the dotted line
 
2012-10-20 10:09:27 AM  
Texas

6655321: Each pupil and situation should be examined and handled eeperately. Teachers,parents and cops are not always right. Neither are pupils and students. Physical action is just the easiest method.


Physical action is often the method that requires the least amount of judgement and / or critical thinking on the part of "officials".

Zero Tolerance policies make retrograde cavemen happy.
 
2012-10-20 10:10:32 AM  

orbister: Fark Me To Tears: Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.

Why should parents be expected to drop everything and run simply because the school can only think of one disciplinary policy?


Because the school has one job: To educate.

Making sure your child knows how to behave in a variety of social settings is the parents' job. Teachers have more important things to do than thinking up personalized plans on how to get your unruly kid to pipe down so the other two dozen kids can learn science and math. If you failed to properly instruct your kid in proper modes of behavior, then the school is going to take the shortest simplest method to insure your kid stops disrupting class: throw him out for you to deal with, or show Little Johnny that bad behavior in class hurts Even if he isn't the sharpest crayon in the box, he can learn to make that association.
 
2012-10-20 10:11:49 AM  
Oh, it's time for this thread again.

/Institute the Minnesota Spankalogical Protocol
 
2012-10-20 10:12:59 AM  

Coffee Snob: Here's an even easier program: touch my kid and I break your face. If he/she is a problem, take them out of class. I will discipline them when I bring them home.


Might I suggest homeschooling then?

Sometimes, timing is everything. You'd be amazed how effective a quick pat on the ass at school in front of their classmates- at the time of the offense-- to remind them that the classroom won't be a safe zone for acting out really is. Saves you the drive in, saves the kid the psychological drama of wondering what hells yu have in store when you do pick him up, saves a lot of class time not having to lose a student and teacher to the principle's office while she explains why it is necessary to call you in.

Catering to the individual needs of parents is both disruptive and time consuming. You send the wrong message to the child: that the the only one they need obey is the parent rather than the person in charge as they hold no authority over their actions.

I am not advocating a public sentence of paddling for wrong doing- only a situational reminder of who's in charge or what behavior will not be tolerated should other means fail.

You relinguish them to the teacher's care- let them have the means (within reason) to keep your kid in line.
 
2012-10-20 10:13:35 AM  
My district didn't have corporal punishment. When I was seven years old, I was goofing off with a friend instead of doing sign language along to Surfin' USA in music class (we invented our own signs - not obscene, just silly - and did them instead). The teacher came up behind me, grabbed me around the throat, dragged me to the front of the class, and shook me. She would also scream at this kid EVERY DAY for daring to pronounce his name the way it was actually pronouced instead of the way she said it should be. She mysteriously didn't return the next year after these things came to light.

I guess my perspective is if the only way you can discipline a second-grader is with violence, you're probably not even smart enough to teach them the goddamn alphabet.
 
2012-10-20 10:16:44 AM  

orbister: Fark Me To Tears: Those of you who think your little snowflakes should never be spanked will sign a document attesting to your promise to drop whatever you're doing and come to the school to pick up your child whenever he or she is behaving in a way that would warrant corporal punishment under school guidelines. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you fail to live up to this promise, your child will be expelled and you will be required to relocate to another school system at your expense. Otherwise, give us the power to properly discipline your child and STFU.

Why should parents be expected to drop everything and run simply because the school can only think of one disciplinary policy?


You're assuming that they haven't tried other means to get your kid in line.
 
2012-10-20 10:19:00 AM  

Maul555: People who treat spanking like child abuse annoy the shiat out of me...

/me eagerly signs on the dotted line


Then you should go to a calm clinic and get help with your anger issues. The glue's not quite dry inside your head.
 
2012-10-20 10:19:44 AM  
Spanking is not child abuse. If parents feel they need to smack their children to get a desired behavior, then they should be able to do so. However, as TEACHERS, we should be above that. I have never felt the need to hit a child in my class to maintain order and control. Like most teachers, I have training, education, and experience that provides me much better ways to manage challenging behaviors.
 
2012-10-20 10:22:22 AM  

zena: Spanking is not child abuse. If parents feel they need to smack their children to get a desired behavior, then they should be able to do so. However, as TEACHERS, we should be above that. I have never felt the need to hit a child in my class to maintain order and control. Like most teachers, I have training, education, and experience that provides me much better ways to manage challenging behaviors.


Don't know what state you are in zena but i live in Maine. There have been people that CPA has gone after for spanking who have gotten in big trouble for it. you see a story now and then in the paper bout it.
 
2012-10-20 10:22:54 AM  
It is a stone-cold FACT that the rise of students misbehaving in school directly corresponded with removal of teacher's ability to spank.

I was in school as it happened, and it happened almost immediately, and has only gotten worse from there.

Teachers used to have authority, and the means to enforce it. And kids stayed in line.

Then the first lawsuits for someone's poor little kid getting a bruise or two happened, and it went from where the teacher could just tear you up, to having to get another teacher to witness the spanking, to having only the assistant principal do it, to 3 licks only, to nothing.
 
2012-10-20 10:23:15 AM  

jumac: zena: Spanking is not child abuse. If parents feel they need to smack their children to get a desired behavior, then they should be able to do so. However, as TEACHERS, we should be above that. I have never felt the need to hit a child in my class to maintain order and control. Like most teachers, I have training, education, and experience that provides me much better ways to manage challenging behaviors.

Don't know what state you are in zena but i live in Maine. There have been people that CPA has gone after for spanking who have gotten in big trouble for it. you see a story now and then in the paper bout it.


opps didn't see my spelling error I ment CPS not CPA
 
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