If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Daily Mail)   How to win at roulette - think like a physicist   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 102
    More: Spiffy, University of Western Australia, Australian Broadcasting Corporation, roulette, problem gambling, simple program, expected returns  
•       •       •

14053 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Oct 2012 at 6:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



102 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-10-19 11:51:08 PM
Players could use a tiny computer that, with the click of a button, records every time the ball passes a certain point on the wheel.

And I'm 100% sure the casinos would be totally cool with that.
 
2012-10-19 11:53:39 PM

fusillade762: Players could use a tiny computer that, with the click of a button, records every time the ball passes a certain point on the wheel.

And I'm 100% sure the casinos would be totally cool with that.


Sure, just set it up next to the card-counting machine and the loaded craps dice.
 
2012-10-20 12:06:55 AM
I tried that and it didn't work for sh*t

/I swear I followed Miss Cleo's advice to the letter
//and number
 
2012-10-20 12:50:08 AM
How to win at gambling: Learn statistics, open a casino yourself.
 
2012-10-20 01:03:38 AM
Rule number 1: Never bet against the house.
Rule number 2: Never bet against the house.
Rule number 3: Never bet against the house.
 
2012-10-20 01:15:58 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Rule number 1: Never bet against the house.
Rule number 2: Never bet against the house.
Rule number 3: Never bet against the house.


This is why I play poker.
 
2012-10-20 01:48:11 AM
This sounds totally legit. I'm not worried that the article didn't actually attempt to vet the findings, I'm sure that's just because the "journalist" didn't want to make mad stacks of money.

/and be murdered when he was caught cheating, even though he lost ALL his money.
 
2012-10-20 03:11:01 AM
I seem to recall watching a show on the history channel about cheating in Vegas that talked about some guys who did this years ago, they would press on a switch hidden in one shoe when the ball was passing a certain point and it would calculate likely outcomes and the part in their other shoe would signal them by prodding their foot in a particular pattern
 
2012-10-20 03:37:29 AM
Without the use of electronics, it is called clocking the wheel. Yes, you can win if you memorize the position of the numbers on the wheel, can place your bet after the throw, realize the casino knows you are clocking so they instruct the dealer to vary the spin velocity of both the wheel and the ball, and if the ball doesn't bounce around the rails too much after it falls. I have found the best position to clock is at the top of the table by the 0/00/1/2/3. Also, an older wheel with high rails (the metal that separates the numbers reduces the amount of "bounce" the ball has after it falls.

What makes it fun is that you only have about 15 seconds before the dealer waves off no more bets.

And finally, depending on the casino, they will change dealers after 20 minutes and the replacement can wipe you out if they FARK with you by really slowing up the wheel and/or ball velocity.
 
2012-10-20 03:56:07 AM

EnviroDude: Without the use of electronics, it is called clocking the wheel.


Interesting. I also remember watching a show about some guys that took casinos by just studying wheels for weeks and finding that each wheel had particular tendencies and then betting on those tendencies.
 
2012-10-20 05:36:01 AM

Metalupis: I seem to recall watching a show on the history channel about cheating in Vegas that talked about some guys who did this years ago, they would press on a switch hidden in one shoe when the ball was passing a certain point and it would calculate likely outcomes and the part in their other shoe would signal them by prodding their foot in a particular pattern


I saw it too. As I recall, the device malfunctioned on 'em once and either did or almost gave 'em away. Also, if I remember correctly, the device basically helped them narrow the wheel down to a 1/8 slice of it where they'd place their bets.
 
2012-10-20 05:46:17 AM
Theoretical physicist or applied physicist? Because there's a huge difference, and I can only imagine that trying to put the described method into practice would reveal it.

"How can I keep losing? I have the science."
"Are you assuming that the wheel is perfectly level and the ball is frictionless?"
"Of course!"
 
2012-10-20 06:41:27 AM
This has been done before. You think the casinos aren't wise to it?
 
2012-10-20 06:46:35 AM
i1255.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-20 06:54:34 AM
You forget... I know how to count cards. But Crasino hunks break your bones if you talk with a sass mouth.
i.cdn.turner.com
Watcha waiting for? Let's go gramble!
 
2012-10-20 06:56:40 AM
Croupier for 2 years . No way this could work in a casino. As a dealer eveytime I spin the wheel I vary the wheel speed and also the amount of power applied to the ball. Also the click of the finger with which the dealer releases the ball apply varying degrees of spin. All of these factors would take a very sophisticated computer, I imagine, to accurately measure. You would also need to be pretty close to the wheel to make any measurement, which would be rather conspicuous.
 
2012-10-20 07:00:15 AM
Roulette is a fool's tax like the lottery.
 
2012-10-20 07:05:48 AM
The Eudaemons did exactly this in the late 70's.

The book The Eudaemonic Pie is a good read about what they did.
 
2012-10-20 07:16:48 AM
How to win at Roulette - don't play.

FTFA: "it is likely that using such devices would annoy casinos"

Annoy? Really Annoy?

I suppose broken kneecaps could be annoying...
 
2012-10-20 07:19:19 AM
Like all casino games, the odds of winning at roulette are stacked against punters.

I eagerly await Kluwe's response.
 
2012-10-20 07:20:50 AM
First - this isn't even remotely close to a new idea
Second - this is illegal in most countries that allow gambling

It's not even an obscure idea - several cop shows have done episodes around this idea
 
2012-10-20 07:25:13 AM
($winnings X probability of winning) - ($cost to play X probability of losing) = Expected payout.

The math on gambling tells us to find the best odds of winning with the best payout and cheapest buy-in. A negative expected payout means that you'll lose money over time. So if you must play, bet as much as you can on a single game.
 
2012-10-20 07:30:33 AM
Wow. That is possibly the most supidest piece of crap I ever read. Even for the Daily Fail,,, that was a supremely weak effort.

That writer should feel bad.

/'maths'
//awesome
///why don't the English speak English?
 
2012-10-20 07:31:34 AM
It really is vodak for me tonight, but is this any different from the MIT roulette computer?

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-20 07:38:05 AM
I could see this being easier to do on the Money Wheel. No chaotic bouncing, just a straightforward velocity reduction formula. It seems easy enough to determine whether the wheel will stop near the joker or not. That might be enough to overcome the horrible odds that bet offers. Maybe they don't give enough time to calculate and bet after they spin it?
 
2012-10-20 07:39:14 AM

Fark_Guy_Rob: First - this isn't even remotely close to a new idea
Second - this is illegal in most countries that allow gambling

It's not even an obscure idea - several cop shows have done episodes around this idea


Yeah, and the level their sophistication to narrow to down to less than a quarter of the wheel would require high speed cameras. A payout ratio of 1.18 would mean that you could put equal bets on 9-10 numbers each spin, and it would only very rarely miss those numbers. I'm sure they have an idealized betting strategy where you place optimized bets on the 3-5 most likely numbers. Even trying to calculate that and get the chips on the table would be impossible. In the lab, you can calculate it. In the casino, no chance.
 
2012-10-20 07:48:26 AM
illuminatis
Croupier for 2 years . No way this could work in a casino. As a dealer eveytime I spin the wheel I vary the wheel speed and also the amount of power applied to the ball. Also the click of the finger with which the dealer releases the ball apply varying degrees of spin. All of these factors would take a very sophisticated computer, I imagine, to accurately measure. You would also need to be pretty close to the wheel to make any measurement, which would be rather conspicuous

exactly. and i've read a good croupier can put the ball in the same 1/8 pie wedge on the wheel. so varying speed like you suggest beats the cheaters unless the cheaters find a lazy croupier who always does it the same way. and if a croupier tries to cheat and throw it in the same spot every time the casino should notice he is aiming for a particular bump thingy on the bowl and spinning wheel the same strength every time.
 
2012-10-20 07:51:51 AM
This is wrong. The casino would go broke and then there would be no casino where you could play roulette.
 
2012-10-20 07:52:05 AM
In a paper published in a recent issue of the journal Chaos, they show that if you know the initial position, velocity and acceleration of the ball you can narrow down where it will end up.

Yeah...same goes for about any object.
 
2012-10-20 07:54:45 AM

Jebus! haven't any of you droolers seen "The Honeymoon Machine" (1961), with Steve McQueen? He plays a US Navy officer who clocks the roulette wheel in a Venice casino and feeds the numbers to one of those new-fangled computer devices offshore with a signal lamp. Mild amusement ensues. A way to piss away a rainy afternoon, while you pick your corns.

In other words, it's been done to death.

 
2012-10-20 07:59:18 AM

Jenna Tellya: I could see this being easier to do on the Money Wheel. No chaotic bouncing, just a straightforward velocity reduction formula. It seems easy enough to determine whether the wheel will stop near the joker or not. That might be enough to overcome the horrible odds that bet offers. Maybe they don't give enough time to calculate and bet after they spin it?


Here's my secret system for betting on the Money Wheel. Always bet on $1. Nearly half of the wheel is $1. It's pretty obvious where it's going to land. Although it would be pretty funny if somebody came up with a way to cheat on it since the wheel is usually off away from the rest of the pit and isn't as closely monitored. I imagine most of the cheating is done by old fashioned bet capping and late bets.
 
2012-10-20 07:59:46 AM

C18H27NO3: The Eudaemons did exactly this in the late 70's.

The book The Eudaemonic Pie is a good read about what they did.


Seriously. Great book.

On a related note: how did this get publised in Chaos of all places? One of the main inventors of chaos theory was one of the Euadaemons. This is basic history for that field. Is this paper's only contribution that they're now doing it with a camera instead of a person clicking? Really? Or have I just been trolled by the Daily Fail?
 
2012-10-20 08:04:14 AM
Just play a block of numbers from the wheel.
 
2012-10-20 08:05:34 AM
Also... to win at Roulette... you just walk over to the Blackjack table and count cards. Easy.
 
2012-10-20 08:09:07 AM
Just the fact that roulette has been a casino game for hundreds of years should tell you something. Casinos would not have roulette wheels if they didn't make them buttloads of cash off every idiot who thought he had a system.
 
2012-10-20 08:28:05 AM
I assume these so-called physicists have heard of chaotic systems and know that without quantum level computation that can update on the fly, actually predicting these things is a waste of time?

/fark all, go do something USEFUL
 
2012-10-20 08:34:47 AM
I've never seen a croupier allow bets after the ball gets to the backtrack.
 
2012-10-20 08:42:25 AM
"Professor Small was able to improve the returns even more using a digital camera and image processor to track the ball. But it is likely that using such devices would annoy casinos".
 
2012-10-20 08:44:03 AM
To win at roulette own the wheel.
 
2012-10-20 08:47:16 AM
Now I just need to find a high-functioning autistic savant who can do physics in his head.
 
2012-10-20 09:01:47 AM
www.starstills.com
 
2012-10-20 09:09:22 AM
A few years back, I watched a friend of mine pay for his entire vegas weekend playing roulette. He would wait till a streak of colors would pop up (usually 5) then bet on the opposite color. If he lost, he would keep doubling the bet until he won.
 
2012-10-20 09:10:32 AM
The only winning move is not to play.
 
2012-10-20 09:18:27 AM

wildcardjack: To win at roulette own the wheel.


It's pretty easy to win money at the roulette wheel. As long as you're willing to grind it out, and have deep pockets, you'll walk away winning every time. Pick a color, black or red, and for the sake of this tutorial, bet $5. The key is to just play one color, don't change. If your color comes up, take the $5 you won, put it in your pocket, and leave the original bet there on the table. Keep doing this until you lose. Here's where the deep pockets come in. When you lose, you have to double the bet you lost, then play again. Lose $5, bet $10. Lose $10, bet $20. You might hit on a losing streak with the color, but you have to keep playing that color, so doubling your bet every time you lose can start adding up. Once you win one of those big bets, you take all the money off the table, except for the original $5 bet, and put it in your pocket.

If you do this, you won't lose any money (unless you leave the table on a losing streak) and grind your way to a profit. My wife and I did this in an Indiana casino, and after about 40 minutes, walked away from the table with about $60 in our pockets at a $5 minimum table. We did hit one of those losing streaks with a $160 bet on the table, and I had to make a dash for the ATM, but she hit while I was gone, and the ATM trip was for nothing.

Some drunk douche was watching us, and after noticing what we were doing, hollered, "Hey! They got a system going on, look!" My wife gave him a look that I thought was reserved for me if I told her she looked fat in her jeans. He shut up.
 
2012-10-20 09:25:49 AM
Fail. Though I'm sure physics can explain how kneecaps break; can it explain how casinos work?
 
2012-10-20 09:27:23 AM
why are these physicists researching something that has already been done for decades?
 
2012-10-20 09:32:12 AM
The fatal flaw in this is you can't bet after the ball has been released. If they catch you betting after that it won't matter how accurate you machine is, you'll be escorted out of the casino.
 
2012-10-20 09:33:03 AM

iron_city_ap: A few years back, I watched a friend of mine pay for his entire vegas weekend playing roulette. He would wait till a streak of colors would pop up (usually 5) then bet on the opposite color. If he lost, he would keep doubling the bet until he won.


The problems with that: 1) A streak of colors does in no way change the odds of the other color coming up next.Yeah, 2) If you lose say 15 times in a row you must now bet 32768 times the minimum bet and sooner or later you won't have the money to double your bet... Losing that may times in a row is one in 25206, that is, it doesn't happen often, but if it does you're screwed unless you have that money to bet. 3) Say that you DO have the 32768 times the minimum be to bet and you DO win that bet: Congratulations, you have now risked all that money to win ONE minimum bet if you include your previous losses this streak in the calculation of your winnings. (If this confuses you, say you've bet 1+2+4+8 and lost all those times. That's 15 minimum bets. Next bet is 16 minimum bets.)

/Well I never said there would be no math.
 
2012-10-20 09:36:51 AM

Tumunga: My wife gave him a look that I thought was reserved for me if I told her she looked fat in her jeans. He shut up.


She was mad because he was making fun of you?

ps... it doesn't matter if you change colors... or games for that matter.
 
2012-10-20 09:46:24 AM
I've placed a bet 4 times ever at roulette, and won all 4. The key is a well timed bet, or be insanely lucky
 
Displayed 50 of 102 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »





Report