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(CNN)   "It shouldn't be news when someone speaks out FOR equality, it should be news when someone speaks out AGAINST equality," says straight NFL football player getting flack for being pro-gay marriage   (cnn.com) divider line 154
    More: Hero, NFL, Chris Kluwe, Howard University, Steve Bisciotti, online games, athlete of the year, Scott Fujita, same-sex marriages  
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4895 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Oct 2012 at 2:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-19 03:22:50 PM

serial_crusher: Cerebral Knievel: SphericalTime: serial_crusher: I'm going to bring up my standard gripe about the "equal rights" talk being disingenuous. If you really wanted equal rights, you'd have a problem with all unmarried people being denied the benefits that come along with marriage, not just gay couples.

To whom would the rights go to, for unmarried people? Most of the time these rights involve things like property transfer, mutual ownership, or joint decisions in the case of incapacity. They sort of require a close relationship with a second person. For straight people, the state recognizes that with civil marriage. For gay people . . . on the federal level, they've basically got nothing.

I agree philosphicly with serial crusher there. But I also agree with Spherical time, that it is a straw man argument.

Monogomous hetero couples have the option of getting married at the last second if its the fan.

While there are many ways that they can protect themselves and thier loved ones, gay couples will always face the risk of a family member coming in at the last second and mucking it all up, and there not much recourse when that happens

What specifically are you talking about family members mucking up? Is this the "I'm in a coma, spouse knows I want to pull the plug, fundie parents don't want to" situation?
1) How'd that turn out for Terri Schiavo
2) Doesn't an unmarried person who disagrees with his parents have the same problem?

I just don't think a marriage certificate is the right solution to that one.


See this.

serial_crusher: SphericalTime: serial_crusher: I'm going to bring up my standard gripe about the "equal rights" talk being disingenuous. If you really wanted equal rights, you'd have a problem with all unmarried people being denied the benefits that come along with marriage, not just gay couples.

To whom would the rights go to, for unmarried people? Most of the time these rights involve things like property transfer, mutual ownership, or joint decisions in the case of incapacity. They sort of require a close relationship with a second person. For straight people, the state recognizes that with civil marriage. For gay people . . . on the federal level, they've basically got nothing.

Income tax rates are my big gripe. They can either help or hurt depending on your respective income levels. In my perfect world, the IRS would expect married couples to file two individual returns, with no special checkboxes or different rates.
(I'd also settle for making it legal to marry my dog. Under the current tax code, a stay at home spouse would save me a shiatload of money).


I can kind of see that, although marriage laws in this country were specifically written to make it easier for a man to support his stay at home wife. Even now, the tax codes do benefit a division-of-labor couple, one who makes more and another who can do more around the house. But you're asking for the benefit for yourself . . . alone. I can see the benefit for a couple, but I'm not sure what applying the discount to single people would do, aside from lower a whole bunch of people's taxes. Might as well just ask for a tax break.

serial_crusher: For most cases I'd rather see the privileges taken away from married couples rather than granted to unmarried individuals. Say, tax free inheritance. Ideally I'd like to see your spouse just have to pay inheritance taxes just like any other person would if you willed something to them. Or alternatively, get rid of inheritance taxes for everybody.


Gods, that's . . . I mean. That applies to property as well, you know? A minorly famous gay science fiction writer committed suicide when his partner died and he was asked to pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes for inheriting half of their shared NYC apartment. He didn't have the money. And think of all the straight couples that could be utterly devastated by this if it were removed . . .

I'm gay, in MA, but not married to my boyfriend of four years. I make a decent living, but he makes a lot more than I do. If we did get married and he later died, I wouldn't be able to keep the house. I'd basically lose everything.

serial_crusher: On the joint decisions in case of incapacity thing, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to pick an arbitrary person to make those decisions for me. Of course, I can fill out some paperwork to give somebody power of attorney to solve that problem. But, so can a gay couple, so there's really no reason to include it in the discussion. You can argue that it's unfair that gay couples have to pay more money to file powers of attorney than straight couples do to get a marriage certificate, but then isn't it also unfair that a single person has to pay more? Lower prices ...


Er . . . no, it's a lot more than that. Visitation, co-adoption, and a whole host of other things that really can't be covered by power of attorney. Not to mention that you actually have to present paperwork at the time that you're invoking power of attorney.
 
2012-10-19 03:23:29 PM
Seriously, what is this headline?

"Are athletes who speak their minds out of bounds?"

It's like, fark, I work in retail. I'm not going to listen to 'shut up and stock'. Why should Kluwe have to listen to 'shut up and kick'?
 
2012-10-19 03:24:12 PM
Chris Kluwe? *checks* Chris Kluwe.


I'm not a vikings fan, but I may have to buy that guy's jersey.
 
2012-10-19 03:24:50 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: kid_icarus: That's always been my experience. When I was a kid I used to think all straight guys hated queers...then as I got older I realized it was actually just the immature asshat ones riddled with insecurity. And who wants to be friends with them, anyway?

For me, it was the day I realized that gay men are not in competition with me for tail. I started down the road thinking "wait, if every other man on earth were homosexual, then all the women would be mine."

From that day forward, I have been incredibly sympathetic to gay rights. I encourage other men to take up the cock.


And we can be highly effective wing men for our straight friends.
 
2012-10-19 03:25:03 PM
Hoping he manages to avoid any serious brain injuries in his career...we need folks like him.

/at least he'd a kicker
//now there's going to be a small part of me that wants to see the Viking's do well...weird
 
2012-10-19 03:25:34 PM

serial_crusher: Cerebral Knievel: SphericalTime: serial_crusher: I'm going to bring up my standard gripe about the "equal rights" talk being disingenuous. If you really wanted equal rights, you'd have a problem with all unmarried people being denied the benefits that come along with marriage, not just gay couples.

To whom would the rights go to, for unmarried people? Most of the time these rights involve things like property transfer, mutual ownership, or joint decisions in the case of incapacity. They sort of require a close relationship with a second person. For straight people, the state recognizes that with civil marriage. For gay people . . . on the federal level, they've basically got nothing.

I agree philosphicly with serial crusher there. But I also agree with Spherical time, that it is a straw man argument.

Monogomous hetero couples have the option of getting married at the last second if its the fan.

While there are many ways that they can protect themselves and thier loved ones, gay couples will always face the risk of a family member coming in at the last second and mucking it all up, and there not much recourse when that happens

What specifically are you talking about family members mucking up? Is this the "I'm in a coma, spouse knows I want to pull the plug, fundie parents don't want to" situation?
1) How'd that turn out for Terri Schiavo
2) Doesn't an unmarried person who disagrees with his parents have the same problem?

I just don't think a marriage certificate is the right solution to that one.




Cute, but basically misses the point. Gay couples, in circumstances sufficiently similar to those of straight couples, are treated differently under the law. The fact that single individuals - individuals in circumstances that are nothing at all like those of a gay or straight couple - are treated differently under the law is entirely unremarkable, insofar as the law treats people in different circumstances differently by design. Different tax rates for people with different incomes. Different laws for people of different ages (i.e. minors vs adults). See how that works?

Also, Terri Schiavo, really? You want to use THAT to make a point?

I once got into a debate with this gay acquaintance about gay marriage, which he was opposed to. What reason, I asked him, could a gay person have for opposing gay marriage?! He told me he had a longterm relationship with a guy that turned out to be a real asshole, and had gay marriage been legal, he would surely have married him and now he'd be married to aforementioned asshole.

You sound like that guy.
 
2012-10-19 03:26:08 PM

YouAreItNoTagBacks: Hoping he manages to avoid any serious brain injuries in his career...we need folks like him.

/at least he'd he's a kicker
//now there's going to be a small part of me that wants to see the Viking's do well...weird


FTFM...I'm clearly not ready to start skipping the preview button.
 
2012-10-19 03:27:10 PM

FirstNationalBastard: AdolfOliverPanties: Yep. Anti-gay rights people are farked in the head. Let us suppose "Roger" loves "Michael" and they have lived and loved together for ten years or so, or even six months. Who cares? They had a civil union ceremony because that is all they can get in their state. Roger's family disowned him years ago when they found out he was gay. Now Roger has cancer and is dying. Thanks to bigoted laws, the only people allowed to make decisions for him, visit him and take care of him are the same people who disowned him for his lifestyle.

Fark that shiat. It is bad enough his asshole family disowned him but now the law won't let him be comforted in his final days by someone who truly loves him?

.

Well, he could be comforted by Jesus if he weren't a sinful sodomite bound for the depths of hell.

/And for how many people does the whole homosexuality argument boil down to "B-b-b-b-b-but JEEZUS!"?


Quite a few of them throw the Jesus card even though Jesus never said anything on the topic whatsoever.

The Episcopalians would probably take him, they're pretty dang Sodomite friendly. Don't confuse the fundie evangelicals with the regular folks who are more concerned with what covered dish they're going to bring on sunday for the potluck then what you may or may not be doing in your bedroom.
 
2012-10-19 03:27:35 PM

alienated: Mrtraveler01: Gay marriage has done the impossible:

It's made this Steelers fan actually support and defend a Baltimore Raven.

Its made a Packers fan like both a Viking and a Raven. Funny world


This Viking and his Ravens are a package deal:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
ecl
2012-10-19 03:29:34 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: kid_icarus: That's always been my experience. When I was a kid I used to think all straight guys hated queers...then as I got older I realized it was actually just the immature asshat ones riddled with insecurity. And who wants to be friends with them, anyway?

For me, it was the day I realized that gay men are not in competition with me for tail. I started down the road thinking "wait, if every other man on earth were homosexual, then all the women would be mine."

From that day forward, I have been incredibly sympathetic to gay rights. I encourage other men to take up the cock.



You should go further and try to turn your straight friends and coworkers. Then you'll really be swimming in tuna.
 
2012-10-19 03:32:09 PM

Dr Dreidel: Why would a Packer not like a Raven?


Um, I am a SoCal who also like the Chargers . I started liking the packers when Reggie White ( i know,sigh ) signed and more good people of colour came to GB due to his encouragement and they started being well, good. That and a guy who I have lost all respect for who was the QB.
 
2012-10-19 03:33:29 PM

fracto: This Viking and his Ravens are a package deal:


Haha. Well played .
 
2012-10-19 03:36:46 PM

alienated: Mrtraveler01: Gay marriage has done the impossible:

It's made this Steelers fan actually support and defend a Baltimore Raven.

Its made a Packers fan like both a Viking and a Raven . Funny world


You know Ayanbadejo used to be a Bear right?
 
2012-10-19 03:37:21 PM
I guess I can understand invoking Jackie Robinson in a discussion about gay rights, but Muhammed Ali?
 
2012-10-19 03:38:25 PM

antidisestablishmentarianism: You know Ayanbadejo used to be a Bear right?


Nonsense. Not hairy enough.
 
2012-10-19 03:38:41 PM

antidisestablishmentarianism: You know Ayanbadejo used to be a Bear right?


Nobody is perfect
 
2012-10-19 03:38:50 PM
The one thing that I noticed about the fundie crowd when they were prattling on this one time about all the "immorality" that they imagined that went on a gay pride parade .. they reminded me of the gay guy you some times see at the bar a sort of bar fly that gossips about everyone and everyone's sex life and they want to tell you every detail -- that is the christian fundie -- I personally do not think of what the old people next door do in their bedroom ,, i don't think of what the Gay guy across the street does either ( I m in Canada so this whole thing ( gay marriage ) now is like watching people argue over if the world is round .

If gay people want to choose one person in this world and say that they love them above all others and they get their stuff when they are dead and pull the plug when a vegetable and make it all legal and binding and have no way some douche bag religion to butt in later and say "" Ohhhh we mean real 'marriage' not your 'civil union ' , so you may not visit your dying loved one ! .... Fark it let gay people marry it is a contract nothing more .
 
2012-10-19 03:44:45 PM
Chris Kluwe is f*cking awesome.
 
2012-10-19 03:47:18 PM

ecl: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: kid_icarus: That's always been my experience. When I was a kid I used to think all straight guys hated queers...then as I got older I realized it was actually just the immature asshat ones riddled with insecurity. And who wants to be friends with them, anyway?

For me, it was the day I realized that gay men are not in competition with me for tail. I started down the road thinking "wait, if every other man on earth were homosexual, then all the women would be mine."

From that day forward, I have been incredibly sympathetic to gay rights. I encourage other men to take up the cock.


You should go further and try to turn your straight friends and coworkers. Then you'll really be swimming in tuna.


Well, I'm married now so it doesn't matter. My penis is not my own to command.
 
2012-10-19 03:48:19 PM

Diogenes: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: kid_icarus: That's always been my experience. When I was a kid I used to think all straight guys hated queers...then as I got older I realized it was actually just the immature asshat ones riddled with insecurity. And who wants to be friends with them, anyway?

For me, it was the day I realized that gay men are not in competition with me for tail. I started down the road thinking "wait, if every other man on earth were homosexual, then all the women would be mine."

From that day forward, I have been incredibly sympathetic to gay rights. I encourage other men to take up the cock.

And we can be highly effective wing men for our straight friends.


This reminds me of a site (that I can't find right now), which was 10 Straight arguments in favor of Gays. Things like reducing the competition, great wing men, and calling women on their shiat when straight men can't. My husband was the one who sent it to me.

/Which I'm pretty sure doesn't mean I need my shiat called on... Probably.
 
2012-10-19 03:49:14 PM

Aidan: This reminds me of a site (that I can't find right now)


Found it! A Pragmatic Pro-Gay-Rights Argument
 
2012-10-19 03:51:47 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: In addition to being a hero for equal rights, Kluwe is gonna get so much tail for being outspoken like that. Chicks dig dudes whoa re straight, manly and yet have a heart.

I know, as I used to be pretty manly. I should work on getting that back.


He's married. And part of the reason he is speaking out is because his brother-in-law is gay.
 
2012-10-19 03:54:30 PM

SphericalTime: I'm gay, in MA, but not married to my boyfriend of four years. I make a decent living, but he makes a lot more than I do. If we did get married and he later died, I wouldn't be able to keep the house. I'd basically lose everything.


I have basically the same problem at the moment. The reason my partner isn't on the lease for our apartment is because he couldn't afford the rent if something happened to me. But in order for him to get on my health insurance - he must be on my lease to prove "financial dependence". Meanwhile no one asks for the marriage license for someone's opposite sex husband and wife or insist that they co-own or co-rent anything.
 
2012-10-19 03:58:58 PM
If you can play, you can play

NHL is on-board as are a ton of minor and college hockey teams. Every major and minor league should be on-board with this campaign.

Really...that's what it comes down to. If you can play, then you can play.
 
2012-10-19 04:02:10 PM

alienated: Dr Dreidel: Why would a Packer not like a Raven?

Um, I am a SoCal who also like the Chargers . I started liking the packers when Reggie White ( i know,sigh ) signed and more good people of colour came to GB due to his encouragement and they started being well, good. That and a guy who I have lost all respect for who was the QB.


The way you phrased it ("It's made a Packers fan like both a Viking and a Raven") made it seem like:
a) you're the Packer fan
b) you now like the Ravens when you ordinarily wouldn't have.

I get why a Packer fan appreciating a Viking is a tough step, but why not the Ravens? Different conference, thousands of miles apart, no big games between the two (other than the shellacking Boller put down a few years back, which was almost as meaningless an MNF game as there can be)...that was why I'm confused.

Is the fact that you're also a Charger fan keeping you from the Ravens? Same conference at least, but I still don't get it.
 
2012-10-19 04:09:01 PM

Aidan: Aidan: This reminds me of a site (that I can't find right now)

Found it! A Pragmatic Pro-Gay-Rights Argument


Unfortunately pragmatism is often overtaken by some people's "Ick Factor" and/or archaic thinking.
 
2012-10-19 04:11:21 PM

Diogenes: Cythraul: Take pics. I gotta see your interpretation of a 'lustful c**kmonster."

I could always just get my Marcus Bachmann costume dry cleaned.


now that's just wrong.
 
2012-10-19 04:12:23 PM

xander450: Gay couples, in circumstances sufficiently similar to those of straight couples, are treated differently under the law. The fact that single individuals - individuals in circumstances that are nothing at all like those of a gay or straight couple - are treated differently under the law is entirely unremarkable, insofar as the law treats people in different circumstances differently by design. Different tax rates for people with different incomes. Different laws for people of different ages (i.e. minors vs adults). See how that works?


Well, that's a good point in the areas where the different treatment is relevant to the existing differences. i.e. if you were hiring an actor to play George Bush in a movie, you'd be justified in only hiring a white person, but not if you were hiring an accountant....
Coincidentally this is why I don't like having different tax rates for different income levels either, but that's a completely separate thread right there.

So, you make a compelling argument for supporting marriage, with the exception of income tax incentives. Inheritance rights, decision making, etc are clearly reflective of different situations in those events.

As for the tax incentives, some married couples do have different situations (i.e. one spouse works, another stays home), but there's plenty of couples who both work reasonably well paying careers. If we wanted to encourage stay at home spouses (I don't, but plenty of people do), a tax incentive specifically for them might apply, but should rule out those married couples that both work, or those that don't have children (since that's arguably the only time that staying at home is beneficial).
 
2012-10-19 04:15:47 PM

Dr Dreidel: Same conference at least, but I still don't get it.


I dont like the ravens as they always have the potential of knocking the chargers out of the playoffs.I know, dont laugh, but it might happen. And, I like at least one player on the ravens, off the field.
On the field ? all bets are off, same goes for Kluwe / vikings.
I did make one exception in the past. I hate denver. But, there i was, many years ago cheering on elway to go out on top, and get one ring. Its complicated
 
2012-10-19 04:17:44 PM
I will never, ever understand why any straight man would hate gay men. IT JUST MEANS LESS COMPETITION FOR YOU, YOU FARKING IDIOTS! Clearly, the moral angle doesn't work on people like this at all. But just based on pure self interest, doesn't it make more sense for straight men to actually appreciate the existence of gay men? Frankly, my idea of a perfect world is one in which all women are straight and all men are gay with the exception of myself.
 
2012-10-19 04:23:32 PM
Chris Kluwe will debate a chair on this topic tonight. It will be moderated by a local radio personality.

Ms. Bachmann has not responded to her invitation.

Link
 
2012-10-19 04:24:14 PM

The Dog Ate My Homework: I will never, ever understand why any straight man would hate gay men. IT JUST MEANS LESS COMPETITION FOR YOU, YOU FARKING IDIOTS! Clearly, the moral angle doesn't work on people like this at all. But just based on pure self interest, doesn't it make more sense for straight men to actually appreciate the existence of gay men? Frankly, my idea of a perfect world is one in which all women are straight and all men are gay with the exception of myself.


Well, within the scope of marriage it doesn't really matter. Being unmarried doesn't suddenly make them competition to me, unless they're the types who get sham straight married. But for those guys I'm pretty sure they'd lose a big chunk of their voter base even if gay marriage was legal.
 
2012-10-19 04:24:49 PM

serial_crusher: xander450: Gay couples, in circumstances sufficiently similar to those of straight couples, are treated differently under the law. The fact that single individuals - individuals in circumstances that are nothing at all like those of a gay or straight couple - are treated differently under the law is entirely unremarkable, insofar as the law treats people in different circumstances differently by design. Different tax rates for people with different incomes. Different laws for people of different ages (i.e. minors vs adults). See how that works?

Well, that's a good point in the areas where the different treatment is relevant to the existing differences. i.e. if you were hiring an actor to play George Bush in a movie, you'd be justified in only hiring a white person, but not if you were hiring an accountant....
Coincidentally this is why I don't like having different tax rates for different income levels either, but that's a completely separate thread right there.

So, you make a compelling argument for supporting marriage, with the exception of income tax incentives. Inheritance rights, decision making, etc are clearly reflective of different situations in those events.

As for the tax incentives, some married couples do have different situations (i.e. one spouse works, another stays home), but there's plenty of couples who both work reasonably well paying careers. If we wanted to encourage stay at home spouses (I don't, but plenty of people do), a tax incentive specifically for them might apply, but should rule out those married couples that both work, or those that don't have children (since that's arguably the only time that staying at home is beneficial).


Yeah, look, you're not wrong - tax policy with regard to marriage (and most other things) is sort of a mess, and it's not clear that providing tax incentives for marriage is a good use of resources, especially where there are no children involved.

But when you say that talk of equal rights is disingenuous insofar as not all advocates of gay marriage would extend those rights to people in entirely different circumstances (i.e. people who are not in any form of couple at all) - well, that's just goofy.

That is all.
 
2012-10-19 04:29:24 PM
to go on te hetero angle, I must invoke my mother and my dead step father.

well... not really step they never married, and that was the problem, niether of them wanted to get married again, him, because he had been married to a succubus. that woman refused to sign any divorce papers so he was stuck out there in that way, my mother was of the belief that you only ever get married once. she wouldn't have married him anyways because of that ( shacking up apperntly was Okay though huh ma? ;-) love ya babe.)

they, my mother and charlie lived a very love filled life together for some 20 years, until the man got himself a bad case of the pancreatic cancer and died within four months of diagnosis. the old ex wife, knowing the man had ammased a mess of assets in realestate continued to refuse a divorce on the grounds she had thought she had won the redneck lottery.

there really wasn't any time to FIX anything.

so charlie died.... mom was the power of attorney, the executor of the will. stood by the mans bed side for the entire four months sitting with him as he passed away and as soon as it happened, the family ran all over the whole scene. the "wife" claimed the body, disreguarded any funeral wishes and proceeded to play the jilted widow card, sued my mother repeatidly, called her a whore of babylon and all that stuff. charlie had left that woman about 15 years prior to have ever meeting my mother might I add.

but that's where it stood... the jilted widow could make all that fuss because of her legal familial standing and it almost trumped all the legal Power of attorney stuff.

things could've been handled better all over the place, do not get me wrong. a lot of it was stubborn people being stubborn and screwing themselves and others in the process.

the point is, next of Kin laws mess with gay couples and non married hetero couples all the time. the case I point out is admittedly an extreme one, but an overriding point is that if you've been shacked up with your old lady for some 20 years, any old estranged family member can come in and throw a giant wrench into the works if you don't have that legal protection. straight couples usually, at least, have an option to fix that shiat, but gay couples, usually, do not.

it must also be noted, that back in the day, there were many fundies out there that considered anyone out of their racial and religious world view to either not have a, or have an inferior soul. So, to them, a white person wanting to be with a black person was like committing an act of Bestiality to them.
 
2012-10-19 04:39:27 PM
I'm not sure why the party of small government is filled with people who are perfectly okay with the government telling you who you can marry.
 
2012-10-19 04:39:43 PM
state Delegate Emmett C. Burns Jr. wrote a letter to Ravens owner, Steve Bisciotti saying that many football fans are "opposed to such a view" and suggesting that Bisciotti "inhibit such expressions" from his employee.

You'd think that homophobic fark would have more to do with his daily schedule than abuse it to make sure his bigoted attitudes are above challenge.
 
2012-10-19 04:40:41 PM

alienated: Dr Dreidel: Same conference at least, but I still don't get it.

I dont like the ravens as they always have the potential of knocking the chargers out of the playoffs.I know, dont laugh, but it might happen. And, I like at least one player on the ravens, off the field.
On the field ? all bets are off, same goes for Kluwe / vikings.
I did make one exception in the past. I hate denver. But, there i was, many years ago cheering on elway to go out on top, and get one ring. Its complicated


Fair enough, even though your QB is the douchiest douche to have ever introduced CH3CO2H to a vagina.
 
2012-10-19 04:46:32 PM

Cythraul: Diogenes: TheManofPA: How can we be so sure that he hasn't turned into a lustful c**kmonster after the magazine interview?

/love Kluwe's twitter
//gotta learn English

I wasn't going to get dressed up for Halloween this year. Now I want to go as a lustful c**kmonster.

Take pics. I gotta see your interpretation of a 'lustful c**kmonster."


Seconded.
 
2012-10-19 04:49:34 PM

Dr Dreidel: Fair enough, even though your QB is the douchiest douche to have ever introduced CH3CO2H to a vagina


like i said, I lost all respect for Favre a long time ago.

Cerebral Knievel: the point is, next of Kin laws mess with gay couples and non married hetero couples all the time


Agreed . Sad story, I hope it worked out well for your Mom.
 
2012-10-19 04:55:37 PM

Cerebral Knievel: the point is, next of Kin laws mess with gay couples and non married hetero couples all the time. the case I point out is admittedly an extreme one, but an overriding point is that if you've been shacked up with your old lady for some 20 years, any old estranged family member can come in and throw a giant wrench into the works if you don't have that legal protection. straight couples usually, at least, have an option to fix that shiat, but gay couples, usually, do not.


I was executor of the will of a friend of mine more than a few years ago. He and his partner were together some 30 years. When he died his sister came barging in, attempted to take over the funeral planning, demand access to the will, and started (literally) taking things. She threaten to sue and asked when his partner was going to move out. We finally cornered her in a bedroom and explained to her that the house, the property, the cars, etc wasn't in her brothers name and if she continued she would be forcibly removed from the premises. When my friend first came down with cancer the first time he started to quietly transfer all property to his partner - sometimes paying large sums of taxes in the process - so in the end he didn't really own anything of significance. She left in a huff and didn't bother coming to the funeral.

/made executing the will easy
//his partner is still contently living in the house
///many people don't have the luxury of time to get their affairs together
 
2012-10-19 05:23:58 PM

Diogenes: This is the what men who are secure in their sexuality sound like.

I don't subscribe to the idea that all men who hate gays are secretly gay themselves, though I think that's sometimes a factor. But I do think that men who are secure in their sexuality really don't give a shiat about the sexuality of others.


Bingo.

I am also fairly confident that Mr. Kluwe would not feel the need for a press conference to declare that he is not gay, a butt-chugger, or both.

Did he really pose for Out? If so, that's pretty awesome.

/I would go check the Out website, but alas my employer is not secure in its sexuality...
 
2012-10-19 05:25:48 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Monogomous hetero couples have the option of getting married


And that's why SC's "standard argument" is full of shiat.
 
2012-10-19 05:27:03 PM
hooray kluwe.... and the other guy in the article.

but, basically, in 50 years, the next generations are going to look at us like we look at our grandparents with the issue of race. and we will be considered assholes, because this issue will be won in favor of civil rights. (it'll just take several decades)

there needs to be more people like kluwe speaking out to audiences who are not traditionally going to hear the argument, and who definitely won't hear the argument from a source that they will listen to.
 
2012-10-19 05:32:29 PM

Jackson Herring: Diogenes: Jackson Herring: Diogenes: Now I want to go as a lustful c**kmonster.

You need a costume for that?

I have to dress down to that level.

[i.imgur.com image 209x242]


Whelp, here comes Ghastly I'm sure.

Heh, here he comes.
 
2012-10-19 05:33:19 PM

gingerjet: Cerebral Knievel: the point is, next of Kin laws mess with gay couples and non married hetero couples all the time. the case I point out is admittedly an extreme one, but an overriding point is that if you've been shacked up with your old lady for some 20 years, any old estranged family member can come in and throw a giant wrench into the works if you don't have that legal protection. straight couples usually, at least, have an option to fix that shiat, but gay couples, usually, do not.

I was executor of the will of a friend of mine more than a few years ago. He and his partner were together some 30 years. When he died his sister came barging in, attempted to take over the funeral planning, demand access to the will, and started (literally) taking things. She threaten to sue and asked when his partner was going to move out. We finally cornered her in a bedroom and explained to her that the house, the property, the cars, etc wasn't in her brothers name and if she continued she would be forcibly removed from the premises. When my friend first came down with cancer the first time he started to quietly transfer all property to his partner - sometimes paying large sums of taxes in the process - so in the end he didn't really own anything of significance. She left in a huff and didn't bother coming to the funeral.

/made executing the will easy
//his partner is still contently living in the house
///many people don't have the luxury of time to get their affairs together


yep, in the case of my mom and charlie, less than four months.. just no time to do all that stuff.

alienated:
Cerebral Knievel: the point is, next of Kin laws mess with gay couples and non married hetero couples all the time

Agreed . Sad story, I hope it worked out well for your Mom.


more or less, we are still dealing with stuff, but the jilted widow has backed off, it took many, MANY lawyers to get her to understand that the the man had NO money ONLY ascets. at his hieght as a house flipper and landlord, he had some 80 properties, on paper worth in excess of a 1.5 large..
but the bottom had dropped out JUST as he was diagnosed, and his net worth was wiped out, he was self employed, he did EVERYTHING with the houses. bought them, restored them with his owned hands and them rented them out, using the rent and mortgage value to pay off the bills and to continue the buisness.

So, he had NO health insurance at all and the medical bills far exceeded the over all worth of the estate.whenever he got a bill, he would sell a house to pay it. then the realestate market crapped out.
Charlies kids got what they were promised and proceeded to go into forclsure and bankruptcy because mom had never taught them how to deal with money, and dad wasn't there to bail them out anymore, didn't stop them from trying to direct all thier fincial and leagal woes to us though. the daughter lost her kid because the SS and the doc's realized there was a bunch of munchousin stuff going on.

when all the fighting was going on , the only advice I could tell the mother was to just fire sale everything at auction, throw all the money at the medical bills, because the state is going to get theirs first anyways, and hand over the estate to the ex wife how she wanted..

of course, at that point, the estate probably would be worth about -$500k in unpaid bills.

deeeeevious! :D
 
2012-10-19 05:33:22 PM

Rambino: Diogenes: This is the what men who are secure in their sexuality sound like.

I don't subscribe to the idea that all men who hate gays are secretly gay themselves, though I think that's sometimes a factor. But I do think that men who are secure in their sexuality really don't give a shiat about the sexuality of others.

Bingo.

I am also fairly confident that Mr. Kluwe would not feel the need for a press conference to declare that he is not gay, a butt-chugger, or both.

Did he really pose for Out? If so, that's pretty awesome.

/I would go check the Out website, but alas my employer is not secure in its sexuality...


cdn01.cdn.justjared.com
 
2012-10-19 05:40:20 PM

Trivia Jockey: Who would've thought that the coolest dude in the NFL was a punter?


Who would've thought the Hero tag would ever be applied to a punter?
 
2012-10-19 05:41:32 PM

serial_crusher: I'm going to bring up my standard gripe about the "equal rights" talk being disingenuous. If you really wanted equal rights, you'd have a problem with all unmarried people being denied the benefits that come along with marriage, not just gay couples.


What?

How the hell would that even work? I mean take a sample issue: hospital visitation rights. You're suggesting that unmarried people should get the same visitation rights as spouses?

So...I should be able to visit a complete stranger in the hospital, speak to their doctor, make decisions regarding their care, in the same way their spouse would? That would be "equal rights?"

You're dumb.
 
2012-10-19 05:48:57 PM

whidbey: state Delegate Emmett C. Burns Jr. wrote a letter to Ravens owner, Steve Bisciotti saying that many football fans are "opposed to such a view" and suggesting that Bisciotti "inhibit such expressions" from his employee.

You'd think that homophobic fark would have more to do with his daily schedule than abuse it to make sure his bigoted attitudes are above challenge.


Also, what about the fans that are for such a view?
 
2012-10-19 05:50:09 PM

Cerebral Knievel: deeeeevious! :D


Ha. I have yet to do the legal stuff as the old man / dad ( i was adopted) died 10 years after his wife and went to every damn living trust / will planning thing he could as it involved a free lunch, but he never spent the 10 bucks to have anything notarised. He has 2 sisters, both very old and living miles away, so i doubt there will be any contest ( it has been 4 years now ) when i can afford to file for probate, and I did ,shall we say, a few illegal things ( thanks ,shawshank redemption ! ) to sell some stocks to pay for the funeral ( he was not big on life insurance, so there is that ) and there is only one thing left- the house.
I know, not so csb, but wanted to share, a little bit.
 
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