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(Indiegogo)   A man who thinks he is an evolved neanderthal works for 17 years in his fallout shelter to make a spiritual successor to the Wizardry franchise. Come for the insanity of his 20 min pledge video, stay for the dream of a good old-school RPG   (indiegogo.com) divider line 124
    More: Strange, Winged Exemplar, Grimoire, fallout shelters, stone tablets, classic games, Samhain, legendary creatures, GUI  
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5313 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Oct 2012 at 11:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-19 11:43:48 AM
Shut up and take my money!
 
2012-10-19 11:47:53 AM
He worked on a sequel to wizardry 7, he knows his shiat.
 
2012-10-19 11:48:55 AM
"Secret buttons, secret places, doing secret stuff."
"Obviously, the Neanderthals were the most severely mentally retarded hominids who ever existed."

I'm only 3 minutes in and I had to stop because I couldn't hear it over the sound of my laughter. This is glorious.
 
2012-10-19 11:57:14 AM
So he reskinned Dungeon Hack?
 
2012-10-19 12:00:35 PM
So that's what Lord British has been up to lately.
 
2012-10-19 12:01:53 PM

Slaves2Darkness: So he reskinned Dungeon Hack?


Didn't you look at the chart?! IT'S ALL RIGHT THERE ON THE CHART! "Grimoire really is the largest, richest, most detailed and complex computer roleplaying game ever made." God damn you why aren't you looking at the chart?!
 
2012-10-19 12:03:53 PM

Doctor_TeethMD: "Secret buttons, secret places, doing secret stuff."
"Obviously, the Neanderthals were the most severely mentally retarded hominids who ever existed."

I'm only 3 minutes in and I had to stop because I couldn't hear it over the sound of my laughter. This is glorious.


Yeah, after the "doing secret stuff" is where I stopped. LOL!
 
2012-10-19 12:06:34 PM
That game looks fun.
 
2012-10-19 12:19:03 PM
17 years? so it will suck like diablo 3?



\loves me some d3
 
2012-10-19 12:19:25 PM
Wow great find submitter.
 
2012-10-19 12:29:11 PM
Old school RPGs sucked. They only seemed good at the time because of our perceptions. Nostalgia and "nerd cred" keeps those perceptions positive. New games are better in pretty much every way. Dynamic environments, decisions that matter, morality... Not to mention graphical improvements.
 
2012-10-19 12:32:27 PM
I think I'll wait for Etrian Odyssey IV, which is due out in February.
 
2012-10-19 12:37:14 PM

Honest Bender: Old school RPGs sucked. They only seemed good at the time because of our perceptions. Nostalgia and "nerd cred" keeps those perceptions positive. New games are better in pretty much every way. Dynamic environments, decisions that matter, morality... Not to mention graphical improvements.


There are numerous old RPGs more complex and deep than many of today's RPGs. Skyrim is pretty horrible, for instance. Everything is copy-pasted and its design is tedious, repetitive, and pretty stupidly simple. Compared to Ultima Underworld or Ultima 7, it's laughable how much modern developers can get away with by slapping some pretty paint on their game.
 
2012-10-19 12:42:24 PM
Oh shiat, this may destabilize Earth's orbit. I hope Superman isn't disintegrated.
 
2012-10-19 12:43:57 PM
Wait, I'm not sure I understand the headline. The creator is not named Vandal Savage, nor does he rule Kasnia.
 
2012-10-19 12:45:06 PM

natmar_76: Honest Bender: Old school RPGs sucked. They only seemed good at the time because of our perceptions. Nostalgia and "nerd cred" keeps those perceptions positive. New games are better in pretty much every way. Dynamic environments, decisions that matter, morality... Not to mention graphical improvements.

There are numerous old RPGs more complex and deep than many of today's RPGs. Skyrim is pretty horrible, for instance. Everything is copy-pasted and its design is tedious, repetitive, and pretty stupidly simple. Compared to Ultima Underworld or Ultima 7, it's laughable how much modern developers can get away with by slapping some pretty paint on their game.


Says the guy who, given a pretty good base game and a near-infinite number of pretty good mods, was unable to find value in Skyrim.
 
2012-10-19 12:46:11 PM
So I went digging around Phoonzang's statue this morning to find out what happened to the rest of the old Sir-Tech crew, and it turns out that Brenda Brathwaite and Tom Hall have also started their own old-school CRPG project.

I'd love to see both Cleve's project and Brenda-and-Tom's project come to fruition.
 
2012-10-19 12:46:19 PM
>THIS CAMPAIGN IS NOT A FUNDING FOR COMPLETION, IT IS A FUNDING FOR ENHANCEMENT

lol
 
2012-10-19 12:46:58 PM
So will every link from now on be a request for cash? Is that how we're going to do things?
 
2012-10-19 12:54:36 PM

natmar_76: There are numerous old RPGs more complex and deep than many of today's RPGs. Skyrim is pretty horrible, for instance. Everything is copy-pasted and its design is tedious, repetitive, and pretty stupidly simple. Compared to Ultima Underworld or Ultima 7, it's laughable how much modern developers can get away with by slapping some pretty paint on their game.


I didn't say every new game was better than every old game. But taken as a whole and averaged out, modern games are better. Skyrim is a good example of that, despite your derision. It has dynamic environments, weather, day/night cycles, wilderness that actually feels like wilderness. You can actually feel a solid sense of immersion. Can you truthfully tell me that you can go back and play some oldschool RPG and feel the same degree of immersion? I doubt it.

Also:

medieval: Says the guy who, given a pretty good base game and a near-infinite number of pretty good mods, was unable to find value in Skyrim.


Bingo. And that's just one example. How about the recent Dishonored? Not a perfect game, but your morality decisions have a tangible effect on the world around you.
 
2012-10-19 12:56:10 PM
supergigant.blox.pl
 
2012-10-19 01:11:21 PM
Mods are great. That doesn't mean the game itself is great. For an actual great modern RPG you can play something like Dark Souls. Vanilla Skyrim is a big box of empty sold at full price. The world is full of linear, mindless dungeons that don't stand up to the design of even Oblivion. Quests are, quite literally, copy-pasta garbage. It's not half as good as Morrowind was 10+ years ago. Dragon AI is ridiculously vapid, contrary to prerelease hype. And anyone who hypes Skyrim's combat while flaming old RPGs, without realizing Skyrim's combat system is almost exactly the same combat system in Elder Scrolls Arena, a game made over 15 years ago, obviously doesn't know much about RPG history or video games in general. Combat is one of, but not the only areas, Elder Scrolls badly needs to improve on.

The only thing Skyrim succeeds in is graphics, and even there the graphics are crude, low quality and repetitive, unable to stand up to any modern DX 11 engine. The fact that fans had to mod in better system RAM usage (the game had the same limited 2gb RAM usage as FO3 and New Vegas [which were also modded by fans, which is mind blowing, that Bethesda didn't fix it themselves this time]), as well as streamlining the game's performance by roughly 10-20% due to poor coding.

The modding of Skyrim is not a testament to that game. It is an indictment of Bethesda's development skills, just as the modding of Dark Souls revealed how poor a job FROM software did porting that game to the PC.

And yes, there are numerous old games you can play that are good. Games don't suddenly get not fun because they don't have max polygon count and highest resolution textures. Morrowind, Ultima 4-7, Ultima Underworld, System Shocks (better than Bioshock by far), Legend of Grimrock, Fallout 1-2, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, FF1-etc, DQ, Quintet's SNES games (Soul Blazer), Chrono Trigger, and many more are highly playable and enjoyable today. As far as open world, Skyrim achieves little to nothing there as well. Ultima 7 had far more variety than Skyrim does, which isn't difficult considering there's very little to do in Skyrim except wander the vast empty overworld or finish one of its 100+ linear dungeons, each of which is basically one of 5 of the same designs.
 
2012-10-19 01:19:06 PM

Honest Bender: Old school RPGs sucked. They only seemed good at the time because of our perceptions. Nostalgia and "nerd cred" keeps those perceptions positive. New games are better in pretty much every way. Dynamic environments, decisions that matter, morality... Not to mention graphical improvements.


catmacros.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-19 01:19:42 PM

natmar_76: The only thing Skyrim succeeds in is graphics, and even there the graphics are crude, low quality and repetitive, unable to stand up to any modern DX 11 engine.


www.zeldacapital.com

media.giantbomb.com 

Which one requires a greater suspension of disbelief? Which one offers more immersion?
 
2012-10-19 01:21:39 PM

natmar_76: Mods are great. That doesn't mean the game itself is great. For an actual great modern RPG you can play something like Dark Souls. Vanilla Skyrim is a big box of empty sold at full price. The world is full of linear, mindless dungeons that don't stand up to the design of even Oblivion. Quests are, quite literally, copy-pasta garbage. It's not half as good as Morrowind was 10+ years ago. Dragon AI is ridiculously vapid, contrary to prerelease hype. And anyone who hypes Skyrim's combat while flaming old RPGs, without realizing Skyrim's combat system is almost exactly the same combat system in Elder Scrolls Arena, a game made over 15 years ago, obviously doesn't know much about RPG history or video games in general. Combat is one of, but not the only areas, Elder Scrolls badly needs to improve on.


Skyrim's world is weirdly non-reactive to what you do but you'd have to be crazy to think the design is worse than Oblivion. Oblivion probably had 4 unique dungeons total, and every other one was a copy-paste of them.

I like the old RPGs but the "critical miss to die instantly" combat in e.g. the original Fallout is borderline indefensible.
 
2012-10-19 01:21:49 PM
Which one is actually fun to play and offers more thoughtful, creative, uniquely crafted content?

SPOILERS: It's not Skyrim.
 
2012-10-19 01:22:03 PM

elchupacabra: *shut-your-whore-mouth*


upload.wikimedia.org

t2.gstatic.com

Exsqueeze me? Baking powder?
Here's a great example of a beloved old school game that pales in comparison to its more modern counterpart.
 
2012-10-19 01:28:29 PM

natmar_76: Which one is actually fun to play and offers more thoughtful, creative, uniquely crafted content?

SPOILERS: It's not Skyrim.


I have no idea how anyone could hold this opinion. Skyrim is a huge improvement over Oblivion. It's not as good as New Vegas or Morrowind, but it has a lot more unique content than Oblivion.
 
2012-10-19 01:28:48 PM

Honest Bender: elchupacabra: *shut-your-whore-mouth*

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x177]

[t2.gstatic.com image 259x194]

Exsqueeze me? Baking powder?
Here's a great example of a beloved old school game that pales in comparison to its more modern counterpart.


I don't doubt that you'll get more bites, but is it worth it? Is it really worth it? Think about what you're doing to yourself.
 
2012-10-19 01:29:34 PM

you have pee hands: Skyrim's world is weirdly non-reactive to what you do but you'd have to be crazy to think the design is worse than Oblivion. Oblivion probably had 4 unique dungeons total, and every other one was a copy-paste of them.

I like the old RPGs but the "critical miss to die instantly" combat in e.g. the original Fallout is borderline indefensible.


"Critical miss to die instantly?" You're doing it wrong. There are many ways to play Fallout. You can finish the game without combat at all.

Skyrim's dungeons are straight forward linear. Even the major quest dungeons are single path, move forward design with very little exploration. It's a major flaw, or more directly it's a dumbing down of the design to make it more accessible. And yes, Skyrim has the same issue with "4 or 5 unique dungeons".
 
2012-10-19 01:30:35 PM

Honest Bender: natmar_76: The only thing Skyrim succeeds in is graphics, and even there the graphics are crude, low quality and repetitive, unable to stand up to any modern DX 11 engine.



 

Which one requires a greater suspension of disbelief? Which one offers more immersion?


So you can't understand how the game on top could be fun while the game on the bottom might not be? Because the trees look better?

Look, I'd like to have a game that was completely photo realistic graphically and was still fun. And there are games who try to walk that line, Skyrim being one example. But given the choice between a game that looks great but sucks and one that has dated graphics but is actually, you know, fun to play, I'll take fun.

I liked the old RPGs like Wizardry, Ultima and Bard's Tale. And it isn't to get old school nerd cred, because first off Fark you I don't care what you or anyone thinks about my "old school nerd cred" and second because I specifically remember the things about those games that I enjoyed. Ya the graphics sucked...they were still fun. And I had more fun making maps on graph paper and deciding how to level and equip my multiple party members then I did running through the same layout cave or dungeon in Skyrim for the 50th time. Even though the Skyrim cave looked a lot more realistic.
 
2012-10-19 01:31:54 PM

you have pee hands: It's not as good as New Vegas or Morrowind, but it has a lot more unique content than Oblivion.


It improves some of the game mechanics over Oblivion, but not dungeon or quest design. I mean, have you done the guild quests? Laughably bad in Skyrim.

And as far as Metroid, you'd do better comparing Super Metroid and Prime, both of which are still considered amazing.
 
2012-10-19 01:32:23 PM

LowbrowDeluxe: Honest Bender: elchupacabra: *shut-your-whore-mouth*

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x177]

[t2.gstatic.com image 259x194]

Exsqueeze me? Baking powder?
Here's a great example of a beloved old school game that pales in comparison to its more modern counterpart.

I don't doubt that you'll get more bites, but is it worth it? Is it really worth it? Think about what you're doing to yourself.


Damn I been trolled. Whatever.
 
2012-10-19 01:35:25 PM

natmar_76: Honest Bender: Old school RPGs sucked. They only seemed good at the time because of our perceptions. Nostalgia and "nerd cred" keeps those perceptions positive. New games are better in pretty much every way. Dynamic environments, decisions that matter, morality... Not to mention graphical improvements.

There are numerous old RPGs more complex and deep than many of today's RPGs. Skyrim is pretty horrible, for instance. Everything is copy-pasted and its design is tedious, repetitive, and pretty stupidly simple. Compared to Ultima Underworld or Ultima 7, it's laughable how much modern developers can get away with by slapping some pretty paint on their game.


I can't really enjoy the newer games. Wizardy 7 :COTDS was, IMHO, the best roleplaying game ever made (or at least that I played). Hell, M&M II was a pretty amazing game, also.
 
2012-10-19 01:36:13 PM

T.rex: [supergigant.blox.pl image 399x376]


wtf is that?
 
2012-10-19 01:37:53 PM

you have pee hands: natmar_76: Mods are great. That doesn't mean the game itself is great. For an actual great modern RPG you can play something like Dark Souls. Vanilla Skyrim is a big box of empty sold at full price. The world is full of linear, mindless dungeons that don't stand up to the design of even Oblivion. Quests are, quite literally, copy-pasta garbage. It's not half as good as Morrowind was 10+ years ago. Dragon AI is ridiculously vapid, contrary to prerelease hype. And anyone who hypes Skyrim's combat while flaming old RPGs, without realizing Skyrim's combat system is almost exactly the same combat system in Elder Scrolls Arena, a game made over 15 years ago, obviously doesn't know much about RPG history or video games in general. Combat is one of, but not the only areas, Elder Scrolls badly needs to improve on.

Skyrim's world is weirdly non-reactive to what you do but you'd have to be crazy to think the design is worse than Oblivion. Oblivion probably had 4 unique dungeons total, and every other one was a copy-paste of them.

I like the old RPGs but the "critical miss to die instantly" combat in e.g. the original Fallout is borderline indefensible.


Skyrim graphically is the top of it's series as it should be. Morrowwind still pawns them all in every respect and if you play Morrowwind with the graphical enhancements then it looks like a modern game but with a depth and complexity and open world size that oblivion and skrim can't touch.

//LOtR2, MOO are still great classic games
 
2012-10-19 01:39:44 PM

js34603: had more fun making maps on graph paper and deciding how to level and equip my multiple party members


THIS
 
2012-10-19 01:39:50 PM
Enhancement #1 Increase screen resolution to 1024x768 and viewport size to 720x600

Wow, this is really old school. Are we talking C64 320x200 resolution here?
 
2012-10-19 01:41:58 PM
I played the original Wizardry (Proving Grounds) on my Apple II back in the day... I ended up with a somewhat corrupted floppy disk at one point that allowed me to level characters without getting exp - ended up with a party that was essentially invincible. High level ninjas ROCKED.

/CSB
 
2012-10-19 01:43:15 PM
still the best rpg ever.

upload.wikimedia.org

only game that I have replayed over a million times, roughly. true, the game is short, somewhat linear, combat is weird, but whatever... it was entertaining. good story, excellent dialogue, and the wonky combat reminded you, this is not some fps/action with rpg elements, this is an rpg with action elements.

/ with mods/unofficial patches, it almost never crashes. 
// and, clan malkav. best character to play in a game ever.
 
2012-10-19 01:43:41 PM
img.skitch.com

shut up and take my money


/greatest game ever
 
2012-10-19 01:46:48 PM

natmar_76: And yes, Skyrim has the same issue with "4 or 5 unique dungeons".


I'm not a huge fan of Skyrim but this is a blatant lie. Yes many geometries are reused but the number of unique dungeons is vastly more than '4 or 5' and much much more than Oblivion.
 
2012-10-19 01:49:08 PM
Work begins immediately on sequel after release

Ask yourself... Will you still want to play the sequel in 2030?
 
2012-10-19 01:51:39 PM

natmar_76: It improves some of the game mechanics over Oblivion, but not dungeon or quest design. I mean, have you done the guild quests? Laughably bad in Skyrim.


The dungeon design is much better. They have similar looks, but they're not all the same. They are mostly linear but they're not all populated exclusively with level matched non-unique enemies. Lots of them have a little unique flavor if you look around. Some are huge, and some are just a single room. Is the design great? No, but it's a lot better than Oblivion. Mooks are mooks and they're never decked out in top tier armor, and if you try to attack a giant at level 2 you'll probably get thrashed. They did fark up level scaling the dragons so they're never really a threat.

I thought the guild quests were mostly better than Oblivion, though there were a couple good thief & assassin quests in Oblivion. That's never been an Elder Scrolls strength, though. Lots of the guild quests in Morrowind were Fed Ex bullshiat.

natmar_76: "Critical miss to die instantly?" You're doing it wrong. There are many ways to play Fallout. You can finish the game without combat at all.


You can, but you shouldn't have to. Literally anything that has a minigun, and most other enemies with powerful weapons, will one shot you with a critical hit regardless of your armor or character setup. It's terrible design.
 
2012-10-19 02:00:30 PM

you have pee hands: You can, but you shouldn't have to. Literally anything that has a minigun, and most other enemies with powerful weapons, will one shot you with a critical hit regardless of your armor or character setup. It's terrible design.


Then don't fight guys with powerful weapons. The game gives you plenty of ways to get around them.

You're like the guy who reviewed DOOM in Edge magazine, but in reverse.
 
2012-10-19 02:05:32 PM

Honest Bender: Old school RPGs sucked. They only seemed good at the time because of our perceptions. Nostalgia and "nerd cred" keeps those perceptions positive. New games are better in pretty much every way. Dynamic environments, decisions that matter, morality... Not to mention graphical improvements.


I understand that I am in the minority when it comes to taste about, well pretty much everything, but here are the only games I have ever beaten more than once:

Dragon Warrior 1 - My favorite game of all time
Shining Force 1 and 2
Fallout 1
Mario Bros 1-3


I just want gear that scales so that by the end I can feel like a conquering hero, some sort of plot/story that isn't too serious, and an easy to use simple interface. Newer games are fun and awesome too, but to me, these games are the pinnacle.
 
2012-10-19 02:10:28 PM

natmar_76: Which one is actually fun to play and offers more thoughtful, creative, uniquely crafted content?

SPOILERS: It's not Skyrim.


SPOILER: You're the only idiot that believes that. Skyrim is universally adored as one of the most interesting and enjoyable games to come out in a decade. The fact that you can mod pretty much any piece of the game you dislike propels it into the stratosphere of top notch RPG gaming.
 
2012-10-19 02:11:54 PM
I'd love anopen world RPG without a defined story, just a set of procedural rules and NPC generation and such so that the world grows organically and your actions can influence various actions and world changes to create your own story.

Sort of like a cross between Dwarf Fortress and Mount and Blade : Warband I guess, with a Morrowwind-esque feel.

I'd love to be able to go into a bar, get asked to join a mission to kill a king, which creates a power vaccuum and sets off a war of succession between his sons that engulfs the neighboring cities and so on and so forth that just comes up completely on its own. I imagine given the bugginess of bethesda games that kind of engine is still years off, but man would it be cool to really be able to interact with a world like that.
 
2012-10-19 02:13:37 PM

HeartBurnKid: Then don't fight guys with powerful weapons. The game gives you plenty of ways to get around them.

You're like the guy who reviewed DOOM in Edge magazine, but in reverse.


So you think combat where you might win or lose based on a die roll, entirely out of the player's control, is good design because you can simply avoid it (if you design your character the right way from the start to pass hidden skill checks)?
 
2012-10-19 02:16:55 PM

roc6783: I just want gear that scales so that by the end I can feel like a conquering hero, some sort of plot/story that isn't too serious, and an easy to use simple interface. Newer games are fun and awesome too, but to me, these games are the pinnacle.


Sounds like you're looking for the Dragon Quest series, which features all of those things.
 
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