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(Huffington Post)   Nineteen of the biggest film plot holes ever. (Spoilers)   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 280
    More: Fail, deleted scenes, HuffPost Entertainment, Mogwai, Harvey Dent, Nicole Kidman, Men in Black  
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23980 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 18 Oct 2012 at 11:56 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-19 12:16:50 PM  
How did Bain transport Bruce to the underground prison halfway across the world and return to Gotham so quickly?

Magic underpants, obviously.
 
2012-10-19 12:20:15 PM  
Go on, pick a time travel movie -- "Looper," "Back to the Future," "Men In Black 3." Pick. Any. Movie. You will find a plot hole. It is just nearly impossible to construct a completely plausible time travel movie without holes.

Wow, that is incredibly lazy writing even by Huffpo standards.
 
2012-10-19 12:27:34 PM  

burndtdan: Uchiha_Cycliste: Those lazy cocks, simply saying, "Oh, it's a time travel movie, lol so there's totally plot holes" doesn't mean there were plot holes, much less one of the worst of all time. I thought the movie was very consistent.

Looper had one glaring problem.

If the Bruce Willis version of Joe killed his future self, then who killed the Rainmaker's mom to make him the Rainmaker to cause that whole future problem he's trying to prevent? This isn't a problem with time-travel consistency so much as it's a big brain fart on Joe's part. Clearly, something ELSE in the kid's life turns him evil, so he probably didn't prevent anything.



See, I felt they dealt with this brilliantly.
I think both timelines exist simultaneously, that's why we see Bruce willis being sent back 3 times.
The first and third times both end the same, little joe offing himself. The middle time he killes old joe immediately. I think that one even results in the other timeline being enabled, and the ither timeline is enabled by the prior stuff.
More importantly, I don't know exactly how it goes down, that time travel shiat will fry your brain. But I think every other timeline lil joe goes kablamo me! and the other times he kills old joe asap.

I was really happy with this dealing of the fundamental time-travel paradox.
 
2012-10-19 12:35:51 PM  

burndtdan: Uchiha_Cycliste: Those lazy cocks, simply saying, "Oh, it's a time travel movie, lol so there's totally plot holes" doesn't mean there were plot holes, much less one of the worst of all time. I thought the movie was very consistent.

Looper had one glaring problem.

If the Bruce Willis version of Joe killed his future self, then who killed the Rainmaker's mom to make him the Rainmaker to cause that whole future problem he's trying to prevent? This isn't a problem with time-travel consistency so much as it's a big brain fart on Joe's part. Clearly, something ELSE in the kid's life turns him evil, so he probably didn't prevent anything.


Note the scenes where Sid (Rainmaker) is already well on his way to becoming unbalanced. He loses it when he gets mad. Mom has a gun safe to hide in when he does.

Young Joe has a positive effect on Sid, gives him someone to look up to, someone who talks to him and understands what it's like to lose your parents, etc...

That, along with ensuring Sid's mom doesn't "leave" him, is the difference.

There's a lot going on there. Nurturing vs abandonment/ environment vs choices, etc.
 
2012-10-19 12:40:47 PM  

justtray: Where's PROMETHEUS on this list? Seriously. Let us begin;

1. First scene, what world is the alien on that suicides himself? Earth, or the military planet?


Earth. I took it to be the literal interpretation of "the body and blood of (what we call) Christ.(or a Christ-like being)"

IIRC, the mention the last time they came to Earth was about 2000 years ago. They were pissed at us for killing one of their own. Decided to clean us out using their super-weapon.
 
2012-10-19 12:41:29 PM  

Zombie DJ: Crewmannumber6: Can't people just enjoy a movie any more?

Good gosh!!
SO.

MUCH.

THIS
.


nope. Write stories where they don't think the audience is stupid.

I'll let most things go, but its when its so farken stupid, like you can see the pyramids in Egypt from Jordan stupid, I'm gonna call bullshiat.
 
2012-10-19 12:45:04 PM  

Hans Kammler: missing Empire Strikes Back.

so Luke and R2 go one way while Han, Chewie, and Leia go another. Luke completes his jedi training in an afternoon? How long are the others hanging out with Lando and the Imperials?

Yeah I know - pile on the Lucas hate.


They were on the falcon for awhile, long enough for Han and Leia to go from hating each other to loving each other.
 
2012-10-19 12:57:54 PM  

Smackledorfer: I get the continuous line bit, but you aren't walking when you time travel so if your ant got turned around and the line was all over the map the you just wound up in outer space.


Yes, sort of. Sure, you could wind up in outer space. But it would be because the spacetime curve you are following curves away from the spacetime curve the earth is following, and you would notice it happening, and could change your mind. It wouldn't be because you "skipped over" some period of time while the earth moved on. Observers wouldn't see you vanish before their eyes, only to reappear minutes later in the sky above them because the earth had moved.

And oddly, you could be walking when you time travel. In this model, time travel isn't a magical high tech device or a portal; it's the curvature of spacetime itself so that when you move through space you follow a loop in time. The trick to creating a "time machine" is that it isn't a machine at all; it's a region of space where the time curves back in a loop.

(Ironically, the popular TV show that comes closest to describing it this way is Seven Days, which relies on "a spacetime distortion" that the sphere moves in. Frank doesn't get thrown off the surface of the earth because it moves under him, but because that's where the space part of the spacetime distortion leads. At least, that's what I choose to believe.)


/If time travel were possible the way it's shown in the movies, would real life have "continuity errors"? And would anybody notice? Is there an interesting movie to be made about the ONE MAN who notices the errors and deduces what's going on?
 
2012-10-19 01:04:49 PM  
all good replies on the hyperdrive etc. and i did not make my point fully.

so what if they were on the 'falcon' for 'weeks' - we are told it takes YEARS for someone to become a jedi. Yoda says Luke is too old. yeah crappy prequels aside or whatever we see younglings that take years to become jedi - and our hero Luke does it in a few hours like getting a merit badge. BZZZZZT wrong answer.
 
2012-10-19 01:09:26 PM  
People are confusing plot holes with fiction.

Fiction is 'made up'. Most movies are meant to be fiction. They aren't real. They are able to break laws of nature without explaining it in detail. We accept that because we know it's a movie. Fiction.

In the Matrix, machines using humans as batteries might be a stupid idea, in our reality. But in the fictional world of the Matrix, we're supposed to accept the explanation that humans, combined with some form of Fusion generates power and the machines harness it. That's fiction.

When Superman can fly - that's fiction.

Plot holes are when the movie is logically inconsistent with the rules it makes. That's when Superman can fly in one scene and then, with no explanation, cannot fly in the next. A plot hole is something that doesn't make sense *IN THE MOVIE'S REALITY* not our own.
 
2012-10-19 01:11:25 PM  

Hans Kammler: all good replies on the hyperdrive etc. and i did not make my point fully.

so what if they were on the 'falcon' for 'weeks' - we are told it takes YEARS for someone to become a jedi. Yoda says Luke is too old. yeah crappy prequels aside or whatever we see younglings that take years to become jedi - and our hero Luke does it in a few hours like getting a merit badge. BZZZZZT wrong answer.


You know I've thought about this, but really Luke kind of sucks in terms of what Jedi's are capable of in the prequels. When he fights he looks like he learned the most basic abilities and makes up for it by completely giving into the ideology. He never performs any feats (force jump and such), can only move small objects, and his saber fighting is shiat.

It's almost more in line with how it should be.
 
2012-10-19 01:13:49 PM  
There's no such thing as Snozzberries!
 
2012-10-19 01:15:47 PM  

zarberg: czetie: flaminio: Luke had a working hyperdrive, so he got to Dagobah almost instantly. The Falcon's was broken, so it took them a very long time to get to Bespin.

Longer than 12 parsecs?

There was this horrible Star Wars book by Kevin Anderson (who can't hold a candle to Timothy Zahn) that tried to explain that away ...

Apparently the Kessel system has at least 1 black hole in it, and the Kessel Run involved delivering stuff to various locations all around this black hole. When Han said he made the run in less than 12 parsecs, it was a big deal because it meant he had to fly closer to the black hole than anyone else - I.E. everyone else didn't have the balls to fly close to the black hole and ended up flying much longer routes. The 12 parsec thing meant Han was right up against the event horizon.


Nobody ever mentions the really glaring problem with 12 parsecs. The parsec is a distance that is defined by the Earth's motion around the Sun. Our Earth. In a galaxy far, far away. Right.

And no, they can't handwave this one away by saying it's based on some other planet. In a galaxy where interstellar travel is routine, it makes no sense at all that a standard unit of measure would be based on any one planet's orbit.


(Incidentally, the big problem with the Kevin Anderson handwave is that it makes no sense in context. Han is clearly bragging about how fast the Falcon is, not how good a pilot he is. Here's the whole exchange:

Han Solo: Han Solo. I'm captain of the Millennium Falcon. Chewie here tells me you're lookin' for passage to the Alderaan system?

Obi-Wan: Yes indeed, if it's a fast ship.

Han Solo: Fast ship? You've never heard of the Millennium Falcon?

Obi-Wan: Should I have?

Han Solo: It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs. I've outrun Imperial starships. Not the local bulk cruisers mind you, I'm talking about the big Corellian ships now. She's fast enough for you old man.

Emphasis added. There's really no way that spin that as a comment about Solo's flying skills.)
 
2012-10-19 01:20:00 PM  

czetie: nd no, they can't handwave this one away by saying it's based on some other planet.


From wiki: The name parsec is "an abbreviated form of 'a distance corresponding to a parallax of one second'....A parsec is the distance from the Sun to an astronomical object which has a parallax angle of one arcsecond.

since I have no idea what any of that means, I'm willing to handwave it off.
 
2012-10-19 01:22:57 PM  

snowshovel: Given that we don't know why the aliens were harvesting humans in "Signs," I can come up with a good reason for harvesting water-based lifeforms:

Assume that the aliens are in the middle of a war somewhere on their home planet, and that they could bio-mechanically control humans. Having an army of easily killed lifeforms who's entire body was made of acid (to the aliens) would be an awesome weapon.


Nah, we were just juice boxes to get to the next place.
 
2012-10-19 01:23:21 PM  

enderthexenocide: EyeballKid: How does the guy who left the 300 Spartans before their final fight know what happened during said fight?

he doesn't. he was a storyteller, that's why leonidas sent him back to sparta. he knows that leonidas and his men all died, so he just told a story about how they all died, it didn't have to be factual, it just had to be emotional and dramatic so the people in sparta and greece would be willing to go to war against persia.


So, assuming Poor Man's Cyclops is a good storyteller, the Spartans are sent to war in the Middle East on a lie? Ha! And didn't a bunch of "Murka Fark Yeah" types really love "300" because of its sand-socialist ass-kicking? Wow, not only was it a gay movie, "300" was a gay, anti-war movie!!!
 
2012-10-19 01:29:40 PM  

czetie: and you would notice it happening, and could change your mind.


Oh, you yourself, while time traveling, would have control over your physical position and notice things happening, would you? I'm gonna fall back to the other guy's comment: put the bong down :)
 
2012-10-19 01:31:56 PM  
My biggest problem with PROMETHEUS was the fact the Scott said it was not a prequel then right out of the gate in the alien chamber has a original alien depicted in the mural on the ceiling.
And if Vickers wanted her father dead why didn't she kill him when David went off ship. I assume that her father's aids were still in stasis until he was woken up. She could have went and turned his life support off killing him in his sleep.

Funny note re watched it other night the head on top of the alien mound is based on a Giger drawing he did for a no go Dune movie.
 
mjg
2012-10-19 01:32:51 PM  
www.smh.com.au

Two holes in this.
 
2012-10-19 01:34:44 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: People are confusing plot holes with fiction.

Fiction is 'made up'. Most movies are meant to be fiction. They aren't real. They are able to break laws of nature without explaining it in detail. We accept that because we know it's a movie. Fiction.

In the Matrix, machines using humans as batteries might be a stupid idea, in our reality. But in the fictional world of the Matrix, we're supposed to accept the explanation that humans, combined with some form of Fusion generates power and the machines harness it. That's fiction.

When Superman can fly - that's fiction.

Plot holes are when the movie is logically inconsistent with the rules it makes. That's when Superman can fly in one scene and then, with no explanation, cannot fly in the next. A plot hole is something that doesn't make sense *IN THE MOVIE'S REALITY* not our own.


No, your matrix example is a plot hole. It isn't an alternate reality like superman flying. It is more like if superman is capable of flying (fiction) and then encounters a scenario where it would be solved with flight, but he arduously climbs or walks to his destination instead and this decision ultimately results in the entirety of the superman universe.

In the matrix fictional reality they didn't change physics so that humans are the most efficient thing to put into the matrix for body heat. Then that wouldn't be a plot hole. The matrix certainly didn't explain why the robots had to stay on an earth that wasn't hospitable to them and fall back on supplementing fusion with body heat. That is why it is a plot hole. Science fiction should at least attempt to come up with something slightly, only slightly, more realistic than "magic". Maybe that's just my opinion, but fusion that specifically requires human beings is rubbish.

Of course if the books explain things based on needing the brains for processing then that might make the shiatty choice worth while.
 
2012-10-19 01:36:44 PM  

nameofperson: I'll surely get flak for this, but why the generalized hate towards the Matrix movies?


I'm on board for mocking the plot holes. I still thoroughly enjoyed the first, and never watched either of the other two start to finish (plus since the names aren't matrix 1 and matrix 2 I'm never sure wtf I'm watching when I flip past them on tv so I don't know what I've attributed to which one).

Mocking plot holes is one thing, an inability to enjoy a story because of a plot hole is a different one (mind you when the plot hole involves an otherwise smart character acting like a complete f-ing moron, that can ruin it for me).
 
2012-10-19 01:40:05 PM  

Hans Kammler: missing Empire Strikes Back.

so Luke and R2 go one way while Han, Chewie, and Leia go another. Luke completes his jedi training in an afternoon? How long are the others hanging out with Lando and the Imperials?

Yeah I know - pile on the Lucas hate.


Waaaaat? That one wasn't on there?
 
2012-10-19 01:41:11 PM  

timujin: Mugato: Eh, as lame as Signs was, it was the impurities in our water that farked the aliens up not just water itself. That was pretty clear. As for The Matrix plot hole, none of it makes sense at all since they could have just used cows if all they wanted was heat energy. Initially man was supposed to be used as a parallel processor but the suits didn't understand it so they changed it to something simpler.

I followed the link in the description and found the theory posited there to be one of the best I've heard.

Copypasta'd:
When I first saw this film, I didn't realize that it wasn't about aliens at all. It's about the return of demons. Notice it's all about a priest's resurgence of belief, and a preordained moment of redemption-if-dared-and-attempted. There is no alien technology or weaponry or clothing of any kind, only a clawed, naked beast creature and lights in the sky.

Furthermore: The running joke throughout the movie is that people see these "invaders" in a way that's related to their particular frame of mind: The cop sees them as prankster kids, the bookstore owners see them as "a hoax to sell commercials," the Army recruitment officer sees them as invading military, the kids see them as UFOs... and the Priest sees them as test of faith. This understanding of the film removed my hatred of the "You've got to be kidding me; they were killed by WATER!" concept. In fact, the priest's daughter had been referred to as "holy" (as revealed during Mel's key monologue)-recognized by all who saw her at her birth as "an Angel;" and her quite particular relationship to water is shown to be very special and spiritual: In other words, she has placed vials of what are, essentially, HOLY WATER all around the house. (And the creature's reaction when coming in contact with this blessed liquid is EXACTLY like monsters/vampires being splashed by spiritual "acid.")

This view of the movie also explains the creature's actions: They act like superior tricksters, are not able t ...


see, now if the director had come out and said that, instead of posting it somewhere on the internet, everyone would have been all 'oooohhhhhhh' instead of hating on it.
 
2012-10-19 01:50:47 PM  

czetie: And that's what time travel would actually be like, if you can picture that with three space and one time dimensions.


It's even simpler than that, really. Spacetime travel is possible in one direction only. All matter and energy we can perceive is flowing in this direction. This is not to say that there's not matter and energy flowing in the other direction as well. In fact, this may very well be the "dark" matter we hear so much about.

Once a particle of matter is traveling in a particular direction, it is a paradox for it to change direction and travel into the "past". (The future is the "past" for matter traveling in the other direction.) The whole reason for the paradox: at the precise instant of spacetime vector reversal, (and I'm referring to such infinitesimally small Delta-T that it approaches zero,) what in effect happens is there are two copies of the object in question essentially occupying the same point in space: the one traveling forward in time, and the one traveling backward. Nature abhors a paradox, and I theorize that both objects would be annihilated in a burst of pure energy that would dwarf a nuclear explosion in energy released, and result in no particulate matter left over of either object.
 
2012-10-19 01:52:53 PM  

buttery_shame_cave: see, now if the director had come out and said that, instead of posting it somewhere on the internet, everyone would have been all 'oooohhhhhhh' instead of hating on it.


Not saying you aren't right, but why is this okay to do with books but not with movies?

/note, I don't like books all that much. Especially fiction.
 
2012-10-19 01:53:58 PM  

thecpt: Hans Kammler: all good replies on the hyperdrive etc. and i did not make my point fully.

so what if they were on the 'falcon' for 'weeks' - we are told it takes YEARS for someone to become a jedi. Yoda says Luke is too old. yeah crappy prequels aside or whatever we see younglings that take years to become jedi - and our hero Luke does it in a few hours like getting a merit badge. BZZZZZT wrong answer.

You know I've thought about this, but really Luke kind of sucks in terms of what Jedi's are capable of in the prequels. When he fights he looks like he learned the most basic abilities and makes up for it by completely giving into the ideology. He never performs any feats (force jump and such), can only move small objects, and his saber fighting is shiat.

It's almost more in line with how it should be.


now that is a good point - Luke's skill set is rudimentary at best with what we saw Dooku, Yoda et al do with the force.
 
2012-10-19 01:54:14 PM  

czetie: Nobody ever mentions the really glaring problem with 12 parsecs. The parsec is a distance that is defined by the Earth's motion around the Sun. Our Earth. In a galaxy far, far away. Right.


Well, they're also speaking English. I would handwave it that whatever process converted their far-far-away-speak to English also converted their units of measure to Earth-based units.
 
2012-10-19 02:06:03 PM  

Hans Kammler: all good replies on the hyperdrive etc. and i did not make my point fully.

so what if they were on the 'falcon' for 'weeks' - we are told it takes YEARS for someone to become a jedi. Yoda says Luke is too old. yeah crappy prequels aside or whatever we see younglings that take years to become jedi - and our hero Luke does it in a few hours like getting a merit badge. BZZZZZT wrong answer.


Luke got the ITT Tech version of Jedi training that only takes a few weeks. He didn't really have to worry about the philosophy side of the training or the education side, only how to correctly use the powers a Jedi uses. On Corusant, younglings are taught a very specialized education in a school, so yeah the training took years. All luke needed to know is how to kick ass - he didn't need to learn "history of the jedi 101" and any important general Jedi knowledge Yoda had could have been passed on over dinner conversation.
 
2012-10-19 02:08:34 PM  

mjg: [www.smh.com.au image 260x300]

Two holes in this.


Both of which were filled in the movie...
 
2012-10-19 02:09:44 PM  

MagSeven: CPennypacker: If the whole premise of a Looper is that they need to send people back in time to kill them because its so hard to kill people in the future, why do the people who went to all the trouble of setting up this system so they can kill people without getting caught KILL BRUCE WILLIS'S WIFE IN THE FUTURE FOR NO REASON?! The plot device at the core of the entire movie collapses on itself when they use it to set up the plot!

They shot her by accident. They may have been caught and prosecuted in that timeline. Who knows since that timeline was altered away.


Rian Johnson has mentioned that the burning of the house was their sloppy way of trying to cover up their mistake. Those guys were going to be put away.
 
2012-10-19 02:10:50 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: When Superman can fly - that's fiction.

Plot holes are when the movie is logically inconsistent with the rules it makes.


Speaking of which, the Superman films show him flying in space with no trouble at all, yet in Superman III when the computer puts an air-tight bag around him he suddenly is in danger of suffocating.
 
2012-10-19 02:13:45 PM  

Hans Kammler: thecpt: Hans Kammler: all good replies on the hyperdrive etc. and i did not make my point fully.

so what if they were on the 'falcon' for 'weeks' - we are told it takes YEARS for someone to become a jedi. Yoda says Luke is too old. yeah crappy prequels aside or whatever we see younglings that take years to become jedi - and our hero Luke does it in a few hours like getting a merit badge. BZZZZZT wrong answer.

You know I've thought about this, but really Luke kind of sucks in terms of what Jedi's are capable of in the prequels. When he fights he looks like he learned the most basic abilities and makes up for it by completely giving into the ideology. He never performs any feats (force jump and such), can only move small objects, and his saber fighting is shiat.

It's almost more in line with how it should be.

now that is a good point - Luke's skill set is rudimentary at best with what we saw Dooku, Yoda et al do with the force.


He gets better.

(no, really... in the "expanded universe" he really is a master)

zarberg: czetie: flaminio: Luke had a working hyperdrive, so he got to Dagobah almost instantly. The Falcon's was broken, so it took them a very long time to get to Bespin.

Longer than 12 parsecs?

There was this horrible Star Wars book by Kevin Anderson (who can't hold a candle to Timothy Zahn) that tried to explain that away ...

Apparently the Kessel system has at least 1 black hole in it, and the Kessel Run involved delivering stuff to various locations all around this black hole. When Han said he made the run in less than 12 parsecs, it was a big deal because it meant he had to fly closer to the black hole than anyone else - I.E. everyone else didn't have the balls to fly close to the black hole and ended up flying much longer routes. The 12 parsec thing meant Han was right up against the event horizon.


Actually, the "Kessel Run" takes smugglers around "The Maw" - a cluster of black holes (as explained in many of the expanded universe books).

Navigating through them takes skill and speed to avoid the gravity wells.

Yes, it's retconning, but it does work in this case. Hyperdrives can be overloaded by strong enough gravity wells. Navigating through the maw requires the pilot to tightly maneuver, and the overlapping gravity wells means his ship has to be fast enough to "coast" over those spots without overloading his hyperdrive.
 
2012-10-19 02:17:39 PM  
As for other thing in star wars, they're not speaking English. They're speaking galactic basic. Everything is modeled after corusant, so the parsec is probably based on corusant and it's sun.
/possible solutions
 
2012-10-19 02:30:54 PM  

Sgt Otter: Then there's the fact that the occupying aliens left Fort Hood, the LARGEST MILITARY BASE ON THE PLANET, mostly intact.


Speaking of errors, Fort Hood is nowhere near the largest military base on the planet. Maybe it was at one time, but, just off the top of my head, Eglin Air Force base is three times its size (450,000 acres to 150,000 acres). I'm sure there are others
 
2012-10-19 02:41:02 PM  

swahnhennessy: The All-Powerful Atheismo: That wasn't a bad movie, you asshole. It wasn't the best but it was all about the characters and they were great.

I hope I am missing sarcasm. I was stoked when Alien: Resurrection was announced. Jeunet is a bad-ass director, and I was eager to see what he would do with the Alien franchise. Had I realized he'd not also written it, I may have been less excited. That thing was a mess, and a complete waste of good talent.


I actually really enjoyed Alien: Resurrection myself, right up to the point where she falls in the snake pit of aliens and then the whole last chapter regarding the human-alien hybrid plays out. Partly because the "new" monster was not menacing, but mostly because Alien lore dictates that EVERY alien born from a human is basically alien human hybrid. This was hinted at in Prometheus a great deal. So really, that part made very little sense. I could have easily overlooked it if the new monster didn't look like a down syndrome alien, but it did.
 
2012-10-19 02:44:23 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I feel like the major plot hole was what Neo was able to leave the real world and enter the Matrix through inexplicable means. Similarly I was not so jazzed about Neo defeating real word; squiddies. through mind power and even worse was being able to see the machines and their world while blind.
But if I ignore Neo's real world machine interactions, I thought it was an amazing movie.


So, if you ignore the third movie (which is a sensible thing to do).
 
2012-10-19 02:44:54 PM  

frepnog: Hans Kammler: all good replies on the hyperdrive etc. and i did not make my point fully.

so what if they were on the 'falcon' for 'weeks' - we are told it takes YEARS for someone to become a jedi. Yoda says Luke is too old. yeah crappy prequels aside or whatever we see younglings that take years to become jedi - and our hero Luke does it in a few hours like getting a merit badge. BZZZZZT wrong answer.

Luke got the ITT Tech version of Jedi training that only takes a few weeks. He didn't really have to worry about the philosophy side of the training or the education side, only how to correctly use the powers a Jedi uses. On Corusant, younglings are taught a very specialized education in a school, so yeah the training took years. All luke needed to know is how to kick ass - he didn't need to learn "history of the jedi 101" and any important general Jedi knowledge Yoda had could have been passed on over dinner conversation.


And anyway, it's pretty clear that Yoda didn't give a fark at the end. Luke was an errand boy, sent by clerks, to collect a bill. Notice how he was all "you must complete your training" before Luke takes off, and when he returns Yoda says "yeah, your training is pretty much complete. I'm going to die now. But hey, you'll be a Jedi if you can kill Vader. Also, Leia is your sister. "


Then again, growing up on the OT and the Star Wars WEG:RPG, I find it better for Jedi to be milder in power rather than super-Saiyan raining Star Destroyers down on their enemies. Weren't the Jedi Knights supposed to be counselors and peacemakers? The prequels make it pretty clear that one Jedi could wade into a legion of soldiers/robots/whathaveyou and mow them down like wheat. Just think of the difference between Obi Wan's fighting abilities between the prequels and the OT. Obviously Dooku didn't get so wimpy with age, but Obi Wan apparently forgot anything but the simplest Jedi mind tricks.
 
2012-10-19 02:47:19 PM  
Battlefield Earth:

One of the best SciFi books I've ever read, one of the worst SciFi movies I've ever sceen.

I was so damned excited when I heard the this movie was being made, and wanted to smash screen.

As was mentioned above, yes, the cave men where trained by the alien machines, more important, the time scale was like 3-4 years, not 30 days.

Makes perfect sense in the book.
 
2012-10-19 03:02:10 PM  

burndtdan: Uchiha_Cycliste: I feel like the major plot hole was what Neo was able to leave the real world and enter the Matrix through inexplicable means. Similarly I was not so jazzed about Neo defeating real word; squiddies. through mind power and even worse was being able to see the machines and their world while blind.
But if I ignore Neo's real world machine interactions, I thought it was an amazing movie.

So, if you ignore the third movie (which is a sensible thing to do).


Well, the third movie is important in understanding both Neo's power and Smith's and how The big bad Smith's demise leads to an end to all the smiths. It's essentially like Smith was recursively copying himself and throwing off the universes balance of power. His defeat and death was the base case of the recursion that allowed the universe to start returning back to the original and doing garbage collection along the way.

(make_smith (make_smith (make_smith (make_smith... (make_smith (die) )))))
 
2012-10-19 03:18:57 PM  

flaminio: czetie: Nobody ever mentions the really glaring problem with 12 parsecs. The parsec is a distance that is defined by the Earth's motion around the Sun. Our Earth. In a galaxy far, far away. Right.

Well, they're also speaking English. I would handwave it that whatever process converted their far-far-away-speak to English also converted their units of measure to Earth-based units.


Yeah, except there's a very simple, obvious, physically universal basis to measure distance that it would be perfectly natural for people in any galaxy in our universe to use, namely the speed of light. A parsec is roughly 3.26 light years... but of course that's based on the length of an Earth year. If they'd said "light years" and you'd handwaved the translation of "years" from whatever their Standard Galactic Year is I'd let it go. But "parsec" is a wave too far for me.

/Why yes, I do have better things I should be doing...
 
2012-10-19 03:22:31 PM  
the real plot hole is how did the bad guy manage to get all those snakes on the plane
 
2012-10-19 03:27:03 PM  

cman: #5 is full of shiat. There are some time traveling stories that have 0 plot holes.

Bender's Big Score has no plot-holes whatsoever. In fact, the story writers went WAY out of their way to ensure that there were no plot holes. That is the most insane time-traveling story ever told.


Where does the timecode tattoo come from in the first place? It only exists in a closed loop, there's no reason for Fry to have the tattoo except that he had the tattoo, an he only got it as a result of already having the tattoo. Makes no sense.
 
2012-10-19 03:29:42 PM  

Tremolo: cman: #5 is full of shiat. There are some time traveling stories that have 0 plot holes.

Bender's Big Score has no plot-holes whatsoever. In fact, the story writers went WAY out of their way to ensure that there were no plot holes. That is the most insane time-traveling story ever told.

Where does the timecode tattoo come from in the first place? It only exists in a closed loop, there's no reason for Fry to have the tattoo except that he had the tattoo, an he only got it as a result of already having the tattoo. Makes no sense.


That is exactly where the tattoo came from, he got it from himself. One problem people often have with closed time loops is they insist there must be a "first" trip through the loop which is completely not the case. There is no first loop.
 
2012-10-19 03:32:21 PM  

LesserEvil: Actually, the "Kessel Run" takes smugglers around "The Maw" - a cluster of black holes (as explained in many of the expanded universe books).

Navigating through them takes skill and speed to avoid the gravity wells.

Yes, it's retconning, but it does work in this case. Hyperdrives can be overloaded by strong enough gravity wells.


Serious question: does anything in the extended universe explain why the movies don't seem to acknowledge the difference between hyperspace and FTL travel in regular space as alternative ways of getting around quickly/not making the most boring space travel movie in the history of ever? Do both exist alongside each other? It seems like the two are used interchangeably, often when talking about the same ship.

IIRC, Solo brags that the Falcon will "make point five past lightspeed". If that means, as it seems to at face value, 1.5 times the speed of light, that's still not very fast compared to interstellar distances. Do the books retcon that to something more useful? Or does Solo simply have no idea what he's talking about?

Frankly, I find it hard to avoid the conclusion that Lucas knew much of the terminology of sci-fi without knowing or caring what any of it actually meant. "Parsec" sounds cool, and so does "hyperspace". And just for the record, none of this stops me from enjoying Star Wars as a damn good movie in its own right; but it does make it hard for me to enjoy the subsequent movie, each of which further undermines key dramatic elements of the original.
 
2012-10-19 03:43:15 PM  

czetie: flaminio: czetie: Nobody ever mentions the really glaring problem with 12 parsecs. The parsec is a distance that is defined by the Earth's motion around the Sun. Our Earth. In a galaxy far, far away. Right.

Well, they're also speaking English. I would handwave it that whatever process converted their far-far-away-speak to English also converted their units of measure to Earth-based units.

Yeah, except there's a very simple, obvious, physically universal basis to measure distance that it would be perfectly natural for people in any galaxy in our universe to use, namely the speed of light. A parsec is roughly 3.26 light years... but of course that's based on the length of an Earth year. If they'd said "light years" and you'd handwaved the translation of "years" from whatever their Standard Galactic Year is I'd let it go. But "parsec" is a wave too far for me.


Both parsec and light year are based on Earth derived measurements -- not sure what a "standard galactic year" is (or which galaxy it is referring to) -- so using either parsec or light year is equally problematic.
 
2012-10-19 03:45:44 PM  

czetie: I find it hard to avoid the conclusion that Lucas knew much of the terminology of sci-fi without knowing or caring what any of it actually meant.


He must also have heard the term "continuity" at some point in his career. So, yeah.
 
2012-10-19 03:58:32 PM  

JustFish: Makes perfect sense in the book.


in the book did the planes still work after sitting around for a thousand years? cause if they did, it still make no sense.
 
2012-10-19 04:09:46 PM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: JustFish: Makes perfect sense in the book.

in the book did the planes still work after sitting around for a thousand years? cause if they did, it still make no sense.


I'm sure there was a Huck Finn like section where they refined jet fuel for these planes, as well as scraping all the rust off of them and going to the Radio Shack to replace the wiring with... equally old wiring.
 
2012-10-19 04:25:29 PM  
This isn't so much a plot hole as the filmakers/characters being lack wits, but I hated the bit in The Day After Tomorrow when they debate which books to burn in the library.

Would've been a nice scene about human civilization and its desire for some sort of culture if they weren't in a room full of wooden furniture at the time.
 
2012-10-19 05:00:57 PM  
The First Alien has some of the stupidest plot holes in the history of cinema. I almost got kicked out of the theater for laughing my head off at what made other folks cower in their seats.

1. We have no idea how common warm blooded organisms are in the universe yet the Aliens reproductive cycle is based almost entirely upon an unlimited supply of said organisms.

2. Torrents of water allowed to cascade unchecked upon a spaceship with all of those electronics to be ruined. Also water is the ONE commodity that astronauts would never allow to go to waste If the pipes did spring a leak it would be fixed immediately

3 Space suits which vent smoke. Assuming for a moment that the smoke is carbon dioxide the one place you DON'T want a valve is in your helmet. That is just an invitation to disaster.

4 Human sized vents --- on a space ship? yeah right!

Ten minutes after the alien appeared I was screaming at the screen "open the hatches and suck the air pout of the ship along with the alien!"

Ninety minutes later what do they do? Suck the air out of the ship along with the alien!.

The crew of the Nostromo were too stupid to operate a car let alone a space ship!
 
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