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(Christian Science Monitor)   Who recently said in court, "We are all human beings"? C.) 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed   (csmonitor.com) divider line 129
    More: Ironic, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Muhammad said, u.s. special forces, crocodile tears, free daily  
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4195 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2012 at 2:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-18 08:39:28 PM

Porous Horace: I have a friend who is a 9/11 ... uh ... 'truther'?
I'm having trouble not smacking him in the head the more he talks about it.
Advice?


I'd suggest doing the research for yourself. Then you can decide whether you believe the conspiracy or not.
 
2012-10-18 09:39:57 PM

gunga galunga: When we doo-doo, is our poo not brown?
It's the same the whole world' round.
When you wipe, do you look at the tissue?
Most folk do, that's not even an issue.


If you don't, how do you know when you're done wiping? Is this how people get skidmarks? Guessing?
 
2012-10-18 09:48:00 PM

Amos Quito: Significant details about the defendants' treatment in so-called CIA black sites have been disclosed by the government and reported in the media, including that Mohammed was subjected to 183 episodes of waterboarding.

Human rights advocates say the technique is a form of torture. US officials deny that harsh interrogations crossed the line into torture.

The defendants were also subjected to forced nudity, extreme isolation and sensory deprivation, prolonged temperature extremes, sleep deprivation, and threats made against family members, according to government documents.


Makes ya prad to be 'Merican,

Don't it?


Ask Dan Pearl or the 3000 in the WTC who didn't get out if it was justified...

For that matter, It's getting easier and easier to consider ditches full of democrat bodies as acceptable.

The Great Uniter has done a commendable job. Not since 1860 has this country been so close to sectarian violence.

 
2012-10-18 09:58:23 PM

daxxenos: Amos Quito: Significant details about the defendants' treatment in so-called CIA black sites have been disclosed by the government and reported in the media, including that Mohammed was subjected to 183 episodes of waterboarding.

Human rights advocates say the technique is a form of torture. US officials deny that harsh interrogations crossed the line into torture.

The defendants were also subjected to forced nudity, extreme isolation and sensory deprivation, prolonged temperature extremes, sleep deprivation, and threats made against family members, according to government documents.


Makes ya prad to be 'Merican,

Don't it?

Ask Dan Pearl or the 3000 in the WTC who didn't get out if it was justified... For that matter, It's getting easier and easier to consider ditches full of democrat bodies as acceptable.The Great Uniter has done a commendable job. Not since 1860 has this country been so close to sectarian violence.



When I was a boy I was proud to be an American because I thought we were an especially moral people. I would hear about atrocities to our soldiers in various wars and believed American soldiers would never act like that. My picture of the GI was the guy handing out chocolate to kids in foreign lands. It grieves me to see law and morality ignored in the name of security.

Violence begats violence. To stop the cycle we need to leave their lands. Let's also stop immigration of their people.
 
2012-10-18 09:59:18 PM

angryjd: Because People in power are Stupid: machoprogrammer: KSM is one bad mofo. The terrorist organization that he founded (I forgot the name of it) basically taught that it was ok for their members to disregard Islamic laws in order to fit in with the people they were attacking... That is why reports of the hijackers hanging out at strip clubs and drinking before the hijackings came about.

Only worse one is Hambali (who, thankfully, is also in custody). He wanted to turn all of SE Asia into an Islamic superpower... Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, etc...

Yeah, but these are really hypocritical. They weren't visiting strip clubs to "fit in" anymore than the porn stash Found on Osama Bin Laden's computer was for educational purposes.

Yes. A group of unnamed "officials" made a self serving statement off the record that could never be disproven. There are entire departments of the DOD dedicated to terrorist misinformation campaigns. Why wouldn't they say there was porn on his computer?


The same way they know that there is porn on your computer.
 
2012-10-18 10:29:08 PM

FatherChaos: Porous Horace: I have a friend who is a 9/11 ... uh ... 'truther'?
I'm having trouble not smacking him in the head the more he talks about it.
Advice?

I'd suggest doing the research for yourself. Then you can decide whether you believe the conspiracy or not.


Serious research, like watching a YouTube video.
 
2012-10-18 10:54:00 PM
Whaaa? I thought Dick Cheney was the 9/11 mastermind....

/or was that the illuminati?
 
2012-10-18 11:00:11 PM
After bush/cheney convened their energy policy gettogether between jan 01 and may 01 - I knew the game was up. can't imagine who I'd kick in the balls first if I saw them walking down the street.
 
2012-10-18 11:33:28 PM

Novart: FatherChaos: Porous Horace: I have a friend who is a 9/11 ... uh ... 'truther'?
I'm having trouble not smacking him in the head the more he talks about it.
Advice?

I'd suggest doing the research for yourself. Then you can decide whether you believe the conspiracy or not.

Serious research, like watching a YouTube video.


I've looked into it enough over the years.
I don't believe that 9/11 was an elaborate hoax by Bush & co. or any of the other conspiracy theories, at all.
I've moved on; there are other things that have happened since.
 
2012-10-18 11:45:55 PM

daxxenos: Amos Quito: Significant details about the defendants' treatment in so-called CIA black sites have been disclosed by the government and reported in the media, including that Mohammed was subjected to 183 episodes of waterboarding.

Human rights advocates say the technique is a form of torture. US officials deny that harsh interrogations crossed the line into torture.

The defendants were also subjected to forced nudity, extreme isolation and sensory deprivation, prolonged temperature extremes, sleep deprivation, and threats made against family members, according to government documents.


Makes ya prad to be 'Merican,

Don't it?

Ask Dan Pearl or the 3000 in the WTC who didn't get out if it was justified... For that matter, It's getting easier and easier to consider ditches full of democrat bodies as acceptable.The Great Uniter has done a commendable job. Not since 1860 has this country been so close to sectarian violence.



I was about to answer you but...


Vectron: When I was a boy I was proud to be an American because I thought we were an especially moral people. I would hear about atrocities to our soldiers in various wars and believed American soldiers would never act like that. My picture of the GI was the guy handing out chocolate to kids in foreign lands. It grieves me to see law and morality ignored in the name of security.

Violence begats violence. To stop the cycle we need to leave their lands. Let's also stop immigration of their people.



...Vectron said it well.

No matter who "wins", if you've lost the moral high-ground, you've lost.
 
2012-10-18 11:47:54 PM
Oh yeah, he also feels that the SARS epidemic in Toronto was a government-manufactured thing to test out panic situations in large populations.

I dunno, I think people like my friend waste a lot of time trying to find some great conspiracy while neglecting actual important things that are happening in reality. Things they may actually be able to do something about. Perhaps it's a form of laziness.

f.ex. Did you know that Uzbekistan is using less child labour in their cottons harvests these days (partially) due to pressure from companies like Adidas? And that adults from all over the country are being conscripted to pick cotton, even doctors to the point that some clinics and hospitals close temporarily?
He probably doesn't due to being wound up about chemtrails or something.

It's all wild stories with little fact and even less science (in cases where science is applicable).

/science!
 
2012-10-18 11:59:26 PM

Porous Horace: Oh yeah, he also feels that the SARS epidemic in Toronto was a government-manufactured thing to test out panic situations in large populations.

I dunno, I think people like my friend waste a lot of time trying to find some great conspiracy while neglecting actual important things that are happening in reality. Things they may actually be able to do something about. Perhaps it's a form of laziness.

f.ex. Did you know that Uzbekistan is using less child labour in their cottons harvests these days (partially) due to pressure from companies like Adidas? And that adults from all over the country are being conscripted to pick cotton, even doctors to the point that some clinics and hospitals close temporarily?
He probably doesn't due to being wound up about chemtrails or something.

It's all wild stories with little fact and even less science (in cases where science is applicable).

/science!



I (for one) think that September 11 should be made a national holiday.

Perhaps "Amazing Coincidences Day", or something to that effect.
 
2012-10-19 12:09:09 AM

Vectron: I would hear about atrocities to our soldiers in various wars and believed American soldiers would never act like that.


You were naive. Atrocities happen by all parties. There are differences in degree, in official sanction, and in frequency, but atrocity in war is inevitable.

Might I suggest "With the Old Breed" by Eugene Sledge. A regular American boy, fighting the Japanese in Pelielu and Guadalcanal. It is a memoir, not a scholarly history book, but it is a frank look at the ugliest of war.
 
2012-10-19 12:18:49 AM

Amos Quito: No matter who "wins", if you've lost the moral high-ground, you've lost.


Silliness. Every party in war feels they have the moral high ground. I'm sure the Aztecs felt they had the moral high ground against Cortez, and Cortez felt the same way. Same for the Punic Wars.

Ask almost any person in any society how many of "their own" people they would sacrifice in order to preserve the lives of their enemy and their people, and the answer is probably "none." Humanity is little evolved beyond the hunter-gatherer when it comes to warfare.
 
2012-10-19 12:31:46 AM

Waxing_Chewbacca: Porous Horace: I have a friend who is a 9/11 ... uh ... 'truther'?
I'm having trouble not smacking him in the head the more he talks about it.
Advice?

Smack him in the head


With a 10-lb. sledgehammer.
 
2012-10-19 12:37:53 AM

ko_kyi: Amos Quito: No matter who "wins", if you've lost the moral high-ground, you've lost.

Silliness. Every party in war feels they have the moral high ground. I'm sure the Aztecs felt they had the moral high ground against Cortez, and Cortez felt the same way. Same for the Punic Wars.

Ask almost any person in any society how many of "their own" people they would sacrifice in order to preserve the lives of their enemy and their people, and the answer is probably "none." Humanity is little evolved beyond the hunter-gatherer when it comes to warfare.



But that's the whole point:

If we hope to survive as a species, we'd damn well better evolve, hadn't we?
 
2012-10-19 12:45:59 AM

Amos Quito: If we hope to survive as a species, we'd damn well better evolve, hadn't we?


It is an interesting question, weapons get deadlier, humanity remains the same. Your question implies it is possible, but history demonstrates otherwise.
 
2012-10-19 02:32:24 AM

topcon: He's changed his ways. We should let him go.


From a helicopter at 5000 feet.
 
2012-10-19 02:43:32 AM

Amos Quito: If we hope to survive as a species, we'd damn well better evolve, hadn't we?


We are killers descended from a long line of killers. The only species that is a real danger to H. Sapiens is H. Sapiens.

Tribalism and the willingness to kill are pro-survival behaviors. However, cooperation and non-violence are also pro-survival behaviors. You need both to survive.

If you're not willing to kill to protect yourself or your progeny, you're not an asset to the gene pool. People who are unwilling to kill are just as defective as those who are overly willing to kill; the only difference is that the first group are better neighbors in times of peace and abundance.
 
2012-10-19 04:26:20 AM

Waxing_Chewbacca: I agree. That doesn't mean I don't want you lathered in bacon grease and set ablaze by means of a roman candle jammed up your ass. And I'm a democrat. You don't wanna know what my republican friends want to see happen. It involves a cheese grater and a tub full of magets. I'm hoping that in the spirit of bi-partisanship we can do both. Oh, and snakes. Gotta have snakes.


Shouldn't your republican friends at least have some respect for the US Constitution?
 
2012-10-19 06:39:05 AM

Waxing_Chewbacca: a tub full of magets


img685.imageshack.us
 
2012-10-19 08:18:40 AM

neenerist: machoprogrammer: KSM is one bad mofo.

You're not kidding:

"Significant details about the defendants' treatment in so-called CIA black sites have been disclosed....including that Mohammed was subjected to 183 episodes of waterboarding."


Sh*t that is a lot of pain and suffering.

I promise I would have been admitting to killing Kennedy (even though not born then), having a relations with my mother (bah I will go the whole hog ... my father) and being the Second Coming - if those were the answers they desired.

And meh on 183 - it would have only taken me one *flex*
 
2012-10-19 08:55:20 AM

Amos Quito: daxxenos: Amos Quito: Significant details about the defendants' treatment in so-called CIA black sites have been disclosed by the government and reported in the media, including that Mohammed was subjected to 183 episodes of waterboarding.

Human rights advocates say the technique is a form of torture. US officials deny that harsh interrogations crossed the line into torture.

The defendants were also subjected to forced nudity, extreme isolation and sensory deprivation, prolonged temperature extremes, sleep deprivation, and threats made against family members, according to government documents.


Makes ya prad to be 'Merican,

Don't it?

Ask Dan Pearl or the 3000 in the WTC who didn't get out if it was justified... For that matter, It's getting easier and easier to consider ditches full of democrat bodies as acceptable.The Great Uniter has done a commendable job. Not since 1860 has this country been so close to sectarian violence.


I was about to answer you but...


Vectron: When I was a boy I was proud to be an American because I thought we were an especially moral people. I would hear about atrocities to our soldiers in various wars and believed American soldiers would never act like that. My picture of the GI was the guy handing out chocolate to kids in foreign lands. It grieves me to see law and morality ignored in the name of security.

Violence begats violence. To stop the cycle we need to leave their lands. Let's also stop immigration of their people.


...Vectron said it well.

No matter who "wins", if you've lost the moral high-ground, you've lost.


Yeap!

That about sums it up.
 
2012-10-19 09:03:11 AM

Amos Quito: Porous Horace: Oh yeah, he also feels that the SARS epidemic in Toronto was a government-manufactured thing to test out panic situations in large populations.

I dunno, I think people like my friend waste a lot of time trying to find some great conspiracy while neglecting actual important things that are happening in reality. Things they may actually be able to do something about. Perhaps it's a form of laziness.

f.ex. Did you know that Uzbekistan is using less child labour in their cottons harvests these days (partially) due to pressure from companies like Adidas? And that adults from all over the country are being conscripted to pick cotton, even doctors to the point that some clinics and hospitals close temporarily?
He probably doesn't due to being wound up about chemtrails or something.

It's all wild stories with little fact and even less science (in cases where science is applicable).

/science!


I (for one) think that September 11 should be made a national holiday.

Perhaps "Amazing Coincidences Day", or something to that effect.


The year before this happened 'S11' was the term for anti-new-world-order (read: another term for fascism ... which for the uneducated describes a type of society where 'imaginary' citizens (corporations) have more power than 'actual' citizens (mortal).

When I watched the news about first hit, I thought I g*d no some pilot/plane screwed up ... when I saw the second hit my first thought was oh G*D no, some stupid anti-NWO group has stollen two planes and crashed them into the archetypal representation of monetary power ... then I heard that the planes where commercial with passengers and I was mind f*cked and glued to the screen for hours.
 
2012-10-19 09:04:24 AM

clyph: We are killers descended from a long line of killers. The only species that is a real danger to H. Sapiens is H. Sapiens.Tribalism and the willingness to kill are pro-survival behaviors. However, cooperation and non-violence are also pro-survival behaviors. You need both to survive.If you're not willing to kill to protect yourself or your progeny, you're not an asset to the gene pool. People who are unwilling to kill are just as defective as those who are overly willing to kill; the only difference is that the first group are better neighbors in times of peace and abundance.


It's also a matter of target selection. Most people recognize the difference between people they have spent enough time with, and paid enough attention to, to recognize and trust, and people they don't know and can't trust, and adjust their willingness to cooperate / kill accordingly.

Sadly, it seems postmodern liberalism (aka "progressivism") thinks the "moral high ground" involves being willing to completely trust total strangers, and violent sociopaths like KSM take absurd advantage of this, through a simple process of saying literally anything the progressives want to hear while carrying out acts of terror against them. Even after this becomes obvious, the progressives see no choice but to continue aiding the sociopaths, because to do otherwise would be to not only admit that they have been helping hurt and kill other people, but to turn against literally everything they've been trained to believe about morals, ethics, and social interaction.
 
2012-10-19 09:15:50 AM

Tatterdemalian: clyph: We are killers descended from a long line of killers. The only species that is a real danger to H. Sapiens is H. Sapiens.Tribalism and the willingness to kill are pro-survival behaviors. However, cooperation and non-violence are also pro-survival behaviors. You need both to survive.If you're not willing to kill to protect yourself or your progeny, you're not an asset to the gene pool. People who are unwilling to kill are just as defective as those who are overly willing to kill; the only difference is that the first group are better neighbors in times of peace and abundance.-

It's also a matter of target selection. Most people recognize the difference between people they have spent enough time with, and paid enough attention to, to recognize and trust, and people they don't know and can't trust, and adjust their willingness to cooperate / kill accordingly.

Sadly, it seems postmodern liberalism (aka "progressivism") thinks the "moral high ground" involves being willing to completely trust total strangers, and violent sociopaths like KSM take absurd advantage of this, through a simple process of saying literally anything the progressives want to hear while carrying out acts of terror against them. Even after this becomes obvious, the progressives see no choice but to continue aiding the sociopaths, because to do otherwise would be to not only admit that they have been helping hurt and kill other people, but to turn against literally everything they've been trained to believe about morals, ethics, and social interaction.


Maybe my biggest delusion is that I imagine my "well trained , well informed, well paid (well protected) public servants" know how to deal with a REAL issue without collateral damage (or even public embarrassment) - when you need a war to deal with TWO (so called) evil people (Hussein & OBL) I begin to worry about one of two things - either my tax dollars are being wasted on incompetent, easily manipulated, idiots or there is something more going on.

(My tin foil hat explanation for the invasion of Iraq (and murder of 100,000s of mere mortals) was because he wouldn't share the research from the ancient crashed ET craft they found, if there was any other reason I would have expected a news headline of "Died of natural courses in his sleep" ... mind you it could have been as crappy of reason as "energy security" LOL!)
 
2012-10-19 09:31:32 AM

Langdon_777: Maybe my biggest delusion is that I imagine my "well trained , well informed, well paid (well protected) public servants" know how to deal with a REAL issue without collateral damage (or even public embarrassment) - when you need a war to deal with TWO (so called) evil people (Hussein & OBL) I begin to worry about one of two things - either my tax dollars are being wasted on incompetent, easily manipulated, idiots or t ...


Well, at least you're honest about your delusions. I could have told you that your well trained, well paid, and well protected public servants will never be able to deal with any REAL issues without collateral damage and public embarrassment, because there is no training in the world that can turn it into a Hollywood movie, where everyone knows the script beforehand and can practice their lines and choreography until everything is up to the director's standards, thus avoiding any unplanned disasters or humiliatingly bad improv performances. The real world just doesn't work like that, and all your encyclopedic knowledge of drama only means you have less than zero clue how organizational structures in real life actually works.

/of course, you can still fake it among a small circle of like-minded people
//that's what ignore lists are for
 
2012-10-19 11:01:13 AM
Heh. It sure wasn't AQ.
 
2012-10-19 11:31:48 AM

Tatterdemalian: Langdon_777: Maybe my biggest delusion is that I imagine my "well trained , well informed, well paid (well protected) public servants" know how to deal with a REAL issue without collateral damage (or even public embarrassment) - when you need a war to deal with TWO (so called) evil people (Hussein & OBL) I begin to worry about one of two things - either my tax dollars are being wasted on incompetent, easily manipulated, idiots or t ...

Well, at least you're honest about your delusions. I could have told you that your well trained, well paid, and well protected public servants will never be able to deal with any REAL issues without collateral damage and public embarrassment, because there is no training in the world that can turn it into a Hollywood movie, where everyone knows the script beforehand and can practice their lines and choreography until everything is up to the director's standards, thus avoiding any unplanned disasters or humiliatingly bad improv performances. The real world just doesn't work like that, and all your encyclopedic knowledge of drama only means you have less than zero clue how organizational structures in real life actually works.

/of course, you can still fake it among a small circle of like-minded people
//that's what ignore lists are for


No - I am pretty sure that the whole Bush II administration were a bunch of c*nts and EVERYTHING they put their name to is suspect.

Let the Drones have their Freedom :D
 
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