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(CNN)   Fact checking the debate: Obama was right when he said that Apple will never bring back manufacturing jobs to the United States because we Americans are too smart for them   (money.cnn.com) divider line 81
    More: Unlikely, President Obama, United States, Americans, industrial engineers, fact checking, AllThingsD, Apple products, Walter Isaacson  
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2147 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Oct 2012 at 10:25 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-18 08:57:55 AM  
Yep, too smart to become engineers.
 
2012-10-18 09:05:05 AM  

CreamFilling: Yep, too smart to become engineers.


You think engineers build iPhones and iPads? People seem to have this idea that their electronic devices are built by high tech facilities and robots. You know what? Electronic devices are built by low-skill laborers on an assembly line. Nobody in the assembly line is an engineer. All of the actual engineering for Apple devices are done in the US and Korea and Taiwan (for OEM parts).
www.mnn.com
 
2012-10-18 09:32:36 AM  

RexTalionis: CreamFilling: Yep, too smart to become engineers.

You think engineers build iPhones and iPads? People seem to have this idea that their electronic devices are built by high tech facilities and robots. You know what? Electronic devices are built by low-skill laborers on an assembly line. Nobody in the assembly line is an engineer. All of the actual engineering for Apple devices are done in the US and Korea and Taiwan (for OEM parts).
[www.mnn.com image 530x300]


There's another catch, and it's one that politicians don't like to talk about: China has many more skilled engineers than the United States does.

Steve Jobs, Apple's late CEO, brought the issue up during an October 2010 meeting with President Obama. He called America's lackluster education system an obstacle for Apple, which needed 30,000 industrial engineers to support its on-site factory workers.

"You can't find that many in America to hire," Jobs told the president, according to his biographer, Walter Isaacson. "If you could educate these engineers, we could move more manufacturing plants here."

In a May interview with AllThingsD, Apple CEO Tim Cook said he agreed with Jobs' assessment.
 
2012-10-18 10:11:53 AM  

RexTalionis: People seem to have this idea that their electronic devices are built by high tech facilities and robots.


A good portion of them are.
 
2012-10-18 10:28:07 AM  
I read that as "Fart checking"
 
2012-10-18 10:29:24 AM  

CreamFilling: RexTalionis: CreamFilling: Yep, too smart to become engineers.

You think engineers build iPhones and iPads? People seem to have this idea that their electronic devices are built by high tech facilities and robots. You know what? Electronic devices are built by low-skill laborers on an assembly line. Nobody in the assembly line is an engineer. All of the actual engineering for Apple devices are done in the US and Korea and Taiwan (for OEM parts).
[www.mnn.com image 530x300]

There's another catch, and it's one that politicians don't like to talk about: China has many more skilled engineers than the United States does.

Steve Jobs, Apple's late CEO, brought the issue up during an October 2010 meeting with President Obama. He called America's lackluster education system an obstacle for Apple, which needed 30,000 industrial engineers to support its on-site factory workers.

"You can't find that many in America to hire," Jobs told the president, according to his biographer, Walter Isaacson. "If you could educate these engineers, we could move more manufacturing plants here."

In a May interview with AllThingsD, Apple CEO Tim Cook said he agreed with Jobs' assessment.


Would help if one party, the GOP, wasn't majorly anti-education, anti-college, anti-science and anti-intellegence. It's majorly hurting us in the jobs market.
 
2012-10-18 10:30:57 AM  

CreamFilling: There's another catch, and it's one that politicians don't like to talk about: China has many more skilled engineers than the United States does.


Exactly. I have three open positions right now that I can't fill. And I have to wait a few more months before I can bring over somebody from India or Europe to fill them. The US needs to get its act together and push dramatically improve training engineers, software developers, and IT workers.
 
2012-10-18 10:30:58 AM  

RexTalionis: CreamFilling: Yep, too smart to become engineers.

You think engineers build iPhones and iPads? People seem to have this idea that their electronic devices are built by high tech facilities and robots. You know what? Electronic devices are built by low-skill laborers on an assembly line. Nobody in the assembly line is an engineer. All of the actual engineering for Apple devices are done in the US and Korea and Taiwan (for OEM parts).
[www.mnn.com image 530x300]


You didn't read the article, did you?
 
2012-10-18 10:32:58 AM  

Jerkwater: You didn't read the article, did you?


I did and what I got from the article is that Americans are lazy. That doesn't negate the fact that we are failing to educate and train the next generation of high skill workers.
 
2012-10-18 10:38:21 AM  
The jobs aren't in China because Chinese workers are cheaper than Americans. The jobs are in China because Chinese workers are cheaper than robots. For now.
 
2012-10-18 10:42:52 AM  

gingerjet: Jerkwater: You didn't read the article, did you?

I did and what I got from the article is that Americans are lazy. That doesn't negate the fact that we are failing to educate and train the next generation of high skill workers.


Heck, we don't even want to train and keep the current generation of high skill workers.

The short-sightedness of modern business is astounding. And I'm saying that as an MBA.

/thank FSM my background is technical... I think it kept me sane while attaining that degree
 
2012-10-18 10:44:43 AM  
As Matt Yglesias over at Slate noted, these jobs were never in the US in the first place.
 
2012-10-18 10:45:26 AM  

meathome: gingerjet: Jerkwater: You didn't read the article, did you?

I did and what I got from the article is that Americans are lazy. That doesn't negate the fact that we are failing to educate and train the next generation of high skill workers.

Heck, we don't even want to train and keep the current generation of high skill workers.

The short-sightedness of modern business is astounding. And I'm saying that as an MBA.

/thank FSM my background is technical... I think it kept me sane while attaining that degree


As someone with a PhD, all i can think every morning is, "For God's sake, why in the fark did I not learn a trade?..."

/Many friends unemployed
//Employed friends not in their graduate fields anymore
 
2012-10-18 10:47:28 AM  

Arkanaut: As Matt Yglesias over at Slate noted, these jobs were never in the US in the first place.


That.

And also:

"You can't find that many in America to hire," Jobs told the president, according to his biographer, Walter Isaacson. "If you could educate these engineers, we could move more manufacturing plants here."


Sure, they could. But they wouldn't because there isn't any money in it.
 
2012-10-18 10:57:49 AM  

born_yesterday: As someone with a PhD, all i can think every morning is, "For God's sake, why in the fark did I not learn a trade?..."

/Many friends unemployed
//Employed friends not in their graduate fields anymore


Oh please. That's bullshiat:

Link
 
2012-10-18 11:01:44 AM  

gingerjet: CreamFilling: There's another catch, and it's one that politicians don't like to talk about: China has many more skilled engineers than the United States does.

Exactly. I have three open positions right now that I can't fill. And I have to wait a few more months before I can bring over somebody from India or Europe to fill them. The US needs to get its act together and push dramatically improve training engineers, software developers, and IT workers.


Huh? Colleges already push out thousands of minorities with engineering degrees because racism or some other bullshiat. They literally hand degrees out to people who can't pass easy classes, as long as they're black.

One of the black kids in my engineer graduating class got shot and killed the night of graduation because he picked a fight in a bar with some other gang. He had tried to fight people during lectures, cheated on all his homework and tests, etc.



The problem is that most people are too stupid. Liberal arts has ruined America.
 
2012-10-18 11:06:09 AM  

Bullseyed: Huh? Colleges already push out thousands of minorities with engineering degrees because racism or some other bullshiat. They literally hand degrees out to people who can't pass easy classes, as long as they're black


Huh? Definitely didn't matter who you were in my engineering classes. You must have been a civil engineer. EE is a harsh mistress and cares not about you. If you sucked, you failed.
 
2012-10-18 11:06:39 AM  

Papa_Lazarou: The jobs aren't in China because Chinese workers are cheaper than Americans. The jobs are in China because Chinese workers are cheaper than robots. For now.


This to an extent.

China keeps their currency valuation low, to keep wages low relative to US dollars. They get paid great in China versus cost of living. If China stopped manipulating currency, it would cause WWI/WWII Europe level crisis in China with riots and people starving to death.

It would cost more to make stuff in China, but that wouldn't make the jobs come back to the USA. They'd go to the Philippines or Brazil or Indonesia. There will always be a lower cost place than the USA, unless you make the USA a third world country.

Obama's plan is to print lots of money to destroy the value of the dollar, which will turn the USA into a third world country. What he didn't realize is that since everyone else values versus the dollar, he's just ruining the world's economy instead of ours.
 
2012-10-18 11:10:10 AM  

Bullseyed: Huh? Colleges already push out thousands of minorities with engineering degrees because racism or some other bullshiat. They literally hand degrees out to people who can't pass easy classes, as long as they're black.

One of the black kids in my engineer graduating class got shot and killed the night of graduation because he picked a fight in a bar with some other gang. He had tried to fight people during lectures, cheated on all his homework and tests, etc.

The problem is that most people are too stupid. Liberal arts has ruined America.


I'm not quite sure what terrible school you went to, but I've never seen a school 'literally hand degrees out to people that can't pass easy classes'.

Also, liberal arts hasn't ruined America. People like you are ruining America. Instead of worrying about someone else's bullshiat, worry about your own.
 
2012-10-18 11:12:17 AM  

Bullseyed: Obama's plan is to print lots of money to destroy the value of the dollar, which will turn the USA into a third world country.


Sounds completely legit. I bet he was one of those black fellows that they just hand out degrees to, right?
 
2012-10-18 11:14:30 AM  

meathome: gingerjet: Jerkwater: You didn't read the article, did you?

I did and what I got from the article is that Americans are lazy. That doesn't negate the fact that we are failing to educate and train the next generation of high skill workers.

Heck, we don't even want to train and keep the current generation of high skill workers.

The short-sightedness of modern business is astounding. And I'm saying that as an MBA.

/thank FSM my background is technical... I think it kept me sane while attaining that degree


I'm an Electrical Engineer/MBA. I'm employed as a business analyst at a Fortune100 company. I realized that I can make the same money I'd make as an engineer doing finance spreadsheets, which is way easier than engineering. So why bother doing something harder for the same pay?


The issue today is that we over educate people. We're forcing kids to take elementary school classes in college because they failed them in elementary school, but they pass everyone anyway. Colleges teach classes on English grammar. You can take algebra and geometry classes in college.

We need to move to a "two strikes and you're out" policy. If you can't pass grammar in 6th grade, you retake it. If you fail again, you're done with school. Good luck! If you can't pass algebra in the 7th grade, you retake it. If you fail again, you're done with school. Good luck!


Then colleges will know that their applicants actually know how to add two plus two and can talk properly. We can eliminate all English and basic math classes from high school and college. Introductory math in high school should be calculus. Introductory math in college should be differential equations.
 
2012-10-18 11:17:13 AM  

soopey: Bullseyed: Huh? Colleges already push out thousands of minorities with engineering degrees because racism or some other bullshiat. They literally hand degrees out to people who can't pass easy classes, as long as they're black

Huh? Definitely didn't matter who you were in my engineering classes. You must have been a civil engineer. EE is a harsh mistress and cares not about you. If you sucked, you failed.


I'm an electrical engineer. Good to see that the "if you can't pass any other engineering you end up civil" stereotype is out there. I took mostly masters engineering electives in my junior and senior year because the regular electives were too easy. I took quantum mechanics instead of physics 3 because optics shouldn't be a college level class.
 
2012-10-18 11:19:12 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Sure, they could. But they wouldn't because there isn't any money in it.


Plus, if their entire supply chain is in East Asia, then shifting parts of the process to the US would actually make the supply chain longer, which negates one of the typical benefits of "insourcing".
 
2012-10-18 11:39:42 AM  

gingerjet: Exactly. I have three open positions right now that I can't fill. And I have to wait a few more months before I can bring over somebody from India or Europe to fill them. The US needs to get its act together and push dramatically improve training engineers, software developers, and IT workers.


Go fark yourself you god damn liar.
A response is more than you deserve.
 
2012-10-18 11:45:01 AM  

Bullseyed: I'm an electrical engineer.


No you're not. You're a liar is what you are.
 
2012-10-18 11:46:14 AM  
Everybody wants to send their kids to college, then complain there are no manufacturing jobs around.

How many people are going to get a $100k 4-year degree to work a plastic mold all day?

Either we have to say that; we are going to shift our focus away from labor and into services and professional jobs, or; we want to have a labor base and that means that we have to be ok if little johnny or suzy wants to skip college. The second option also requires us to be realistic about what that job will pay. You cant have a stable industry where shift workers get paid well enough to drive from their 4 bedroom house in the suburbs in their BMWs (as the unions would like).
 
2012-10-18 11:46:31 AM  
Since production of electronics once migrated to Asia, it would be illogical to assume it could never return to the United States.

If you consider demographics, robotics, and rapidly increasing wages in China, it would be insane to assume that assembly could NEVER return to the USA.
 
2012-10-18 11:46:57 AM  

gingerjet: Exactly. I have three open positions right now that I can't fill.


That's because you're not paying market value.

That's the problem with today's entitlement mindset - leeches think they're entitled to free shat.

Talent costs money.
 
2012-10-18 11:48:12 AM  

Bullseyed: Then colleges will know that their applicants actually know how to add two plus two and can talk properly. We can eliminate all English and basic math classes from high school and college. Introductory math in high school should be calculus. Introductory math in college should be differential equations.


Too bad you'd run out of teachers, considering half of the people I know with education degrees can't comprehend that level of math.
 
kab
2012-10-18 11:50:27 AM  
"Various economists have estimated how much an all-American labor force would add to the cost of an iPhone and come up with figures ranging from $65 to $100 per device. "

Heavens to mergatroid. That might actually take a nibble out of those already scant profits. Think of the shareholders!
 
2012-10-18 11:53:02 AM  

Bullseyed: Introductory math in college should be differential equations.


What college did you go to that doesn't start off engineers with differential equations?
Why do people think you're a liar?
 
kab
2012-10-18 11:53:29 AM  

gingerjet: Exactly. I have three open positions right now that I can't fill.


Your pay sucks.
Your qualifications are absurd.
You're completely unwilling to train.

Any 1 of those 3 is your likely culprit.
 
2012-10-18 11:56:28 AM  

kab: gingerjet: Exactly. I have three open positions right now that I can't fill.

Your pay sucks.
Your qualifications are absurd.
You're completely unwilling to train.

Any 1 of those 3 is your likely culprit.


we have a winnah!!!

/got turned down for a desktop support job last year because I didn't have 5 years experience in server 2012.
 
2012-10-18 11:56:30 AM  
Various economists have estimated how much an all-American labor force would add to the cost of an iPhone and come up with figures ranging from $65 to $100 per device.

$65 to $100 a device isn't as much of a jump as I thought.

I mean, the iPhone 5 currently costs from $200 to $400 if you're getting a 2 year plan with it (more if you're not). You're telling me their market share would die if it cost $265 and $465 or $300 and $500?

I personally doubt it.
 
2012-10-18 11:57:04 AM  

Spade: Various economists have estimated how much an all-American labor force would add to the cost of an iPhone and come up with figures ranging from $65 to $100 per device.

$65 to $100 a device isn't as much of a jump as I thought.

I mean, the iPhone 5 currently costs from $200 to $400 if you're getting a 2 year plan with it (more if you're not). You're telling me their market share would die if it cost $265 and $465 or $300 and $500?

I personally doubt it.


hell, they could cost the exact same. the margins apple makes on hardware are huge.
 
2012-10-18 11:58:53 AM  

LemSkroob: Everybody wants to send their kids to college, then complain there are no manufacturing jobs around.

How many people are going to get a $100k 4-year degree to work a plastic mold all day?

Either we have to say that; we are going to shift our focus away from labor and into services and professional jobs, or; we want to have a labor base and that means that we have to be ok if little johnny or suzy wants to skip college. The second option also requires us to be realistic about what that job will pay. You cant have a stable industry where shift workers get paid well enough to drive from their 4 bedroom house in the suburbs in their BMWs (as the unions would like).


Today only 30% of Americans have a college degree. A historic high.
 
2012-10-18 12:00:07 PM  

SuperT: Spade: Various economists have estimated how much an all-American labor force would add to the cost of an iPhone and come up with figures ranging from $65 to $100 per device.

$65 to $100 a device isn't as much of a jump as I thought.

I mean, the iPhone 5 currently costs from $200 to $400 if you're getting a 2 year plan with it (more if you're not). You're telling me their market share would die if it cost $265 and $465 or $300 and $500?

I personally doubt it.

hell, they could cost the exact same. the margins apple makes on hardware are huge.


True, but that would represent a loss to shareholders.

I bet they could sell the basic iPhone for $300, have the same profit, and still have lines out the door on roll out day.
 
2012-10-18 12:01:05 PM  

Spade: $65 to $100 a device isn't as much of a jump as I thought.

I mean, the iPhone 5 currently costs from $200 to $400 if you're getting a 2 year plan with it (more if you're not). You're telling me their market share would die if it cost $265 and $465 or $300 and $500?

I personally doubt it.


Apple acts like people won't pay that much extra for their product.
Hell, even with the price increase I think they could double their sales if they brought everything stateside, stamped MADE IN AMERICA on the back of every iPhone, and tied it in with some "Apple is America" advertising campaign to make it both cool and patriotic to own one. There'd also be the added bonus of factory workers being able to afford the damn thing.

But they won't. They want a loyal army of slaves that live in the factory and can be gotten out of bed at any time for a production run.
 
2012-10-18 12:04:08 PM  

Bullseyed: The problem is that most people are too stupid. Liberal arts has ruined America.


Yeah, such a shame that my music degree got me a job with the DoD doing It security right out of college.
 
2012-10-18 12:16:49 PM  

kab: gingerjet: Exactly. I have three open positions right now that I can't fill.

Your pay sucks.
Your qualifications are absurd.
You're completely unwilling to train.

Any 1 of those 3 is your likely culprit.


Actually, most places are guilty of at least two of those, if not all three. #2 and #3 are the most damning. Bad pay can be negotiated or ignored until later. Stupidly high qualifications with no desire to train? That right there is why most tech places are failing to find good workers. I'm not talking about jobs that require an EE degree - I'm talking about network admin and IT jobs where people who left the field back in the crash could come in, get back up to speed, and re-up their certs. Everybody wants ONLY the perfect puzzle piece to fit their needs, and aren't willing to help mold what's out there into what they need.

So if you can't find qualified people for your job listings, it's your own damn fault. I, and hell, many people I know, all used to be in the IT field. When the bottom dropped out of the market, we left for greener pastures. Think I'm going to spend thousands of dollars keeping certs up to date over the years, or keep my knowledge perfectly fresh, in the hopes that maybe someday I might be able to get an IT job again that makes more than $30k/yr? Fark no. There are thousands of people just like me, who used to work in the field, but have grown rusty over the decade spent away from managing tech. We could easily do the jobs people are offering, but are barred at the gate with the initial requirements of current certs, advanced degrees (that were never required for the same job before), or absolute 100% mastery of current tech (which can only be had by actually managing said tech in a production environment - which none of us have in our homes).

There are literal geniuses out there who would get back into IT if they were given the leeway to train back up. Not offered.
 
2012-10-18 12:30:32 PM  

ohknaks: born_yesterday: As someone with a PhD, all i can think every morning is, "For God's sake, why in the fark did I not learn a trade?..."

/Many friends unemployed
//Employed friends not in their graduate fields anymore

Oh please. That's bullshiat:

Link


I didnt get the survey. i couldn't get a job in my field. Tried for 2 years before I gave up. My master's is useless, but my college loans sure aren't. And those of us that DID get jobs are banking thier 40k a year. Livin' it UP! 

/Industrial/Organizational Psychology is not a liberal arts degree
 
2012-10-18 12:33:47 PM  
Hey, I'm farking trying here! I just need another year and a half and I've got my B.S. and F.E.

/engineering is, contrary to some beliefs, rather hard.
 
2012-10-18 12:47:12 PM  

Bullseyed: I'm an electrical engineer. Good to see that the "if you can't pass any other engineering you end up civil" stereotype is out there. I took mostly masters engineering electives in my junior and senior year because the regular electives were too easy. I took quantum mechanics instead of physics 3 because optics shouldn't be a college level class.


Don't you have to be somewhere in 26 minutes?
 
2012-10-18 01:03:28 PM  

gingerjet: CreamFilling: There's another catch, and it's one that politicians don't like to talk about: China has many more skilled engineers than the United States does.

Exactly. I have three open positions right now that I can't fill. And I have to wait a few more months before I can bring over somebody from India or Europe to fill them. The US needs to get its act together and push dramatically improve training engineers, software developers, and IT workers.


But what if kids don't want to be engineers, software developers, and IT workers?
 
2012-10-18 01:15:21 PM  
If by "smart" you mean "too fat-fingered to handle small components" then I concur.
 
2012-10-18 01:37:27 PM  

CreamFilling: RexTalionis: CreamFilling: Yep, too smart to become engineers.

You think engineers build iPhones and iPads? People seem to have this idea that their electronic devices are built by high tech facilities and robots. You know what? Electronic devices are built by low-skill laborers on an assembly line. Nobody in the assembly line is an engineer. All of the actual engineering for Apple devices are done in the US and Korea and Taiwan (for OEM parts).
[www.mnn.com image 530x300]

There's another catch, and it's one that politicians don't like to talk about: China has many more skilled engineers than the United States does.

Steve Jobs, Apple's late CEO, brought the issue up during an October 2010 meeting with President Obama. He called America's lackluster education system an obstacle for Apple, which needed 30,000 industrial engineers to support its on-site factory workers.

"You can't find that many in America to hire," Jobs told the president, according to his biographer, Walter Isaacson. "If you could educate these engineers, we could move more manufacturing plants here."

In a May interview with AllThingsD, Apple CEO Tim Cook said he agreed with Jobs' assessment.


And Jobs said in 2008:

That's a much more upbeat tone than the one his predecessor struck. During their meeting in 2010, Obama asked Jobs how to bring all the iPhone manufacturing jobs back to the United States, according to the New York Times.

"Those jobs aren't coming back," Jobs replied. To top of page


This is low skill, low margin work. Even if you could get all of these "skilled engineers" (whatever the fark that means - everybody with a multimeter in China is considered an engineer) that the US needs you would still need the assembly workers and American workers aren't working for the $18 a day that Foxcon pays its employees. Even robots could never be cost competitive with that.

Good paying, low-skill jobs are done in America. Maybe if oil becomes so expensive that transoceanic shipping becomes cost prohibitive you'd have a shot, but if that happens we have bigger problems.
 
2012-10-18 01:48:28 PM  

Bullseyed: Obama's plan is to print lots of money to destroy the value of the dollar, which will turn the USA into a third world country.


lol.

What gain does he realize from destroying the economy he and his depend on?
 
2012-10-18 01:54:35 PM  

Rapmaster2000: This is low skill, low margin work. Even if you could get all of these "skilled engineers" (whatever the fark that means - everybody with a multimeter in China is considered an engineer) that the US needs you would still need the assembly workers and American workers aren't working for the $18 a day that Foxcon pays its employees. Even robots could never be cost competitive with that.

Good paying, low-skill jobs are done in America. Maybe if oil becomes so expensive that transoceanic shipping becomes cost prohibitive you'd have a shot, but if that happens we have bigger problems.


Erm, they say in the article that using those uncompetitive paid American workers would add like $50 to the cost of an iPhone.
 
2012-10-18 01:55:10 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: What college did you go to that doesn't start off engineers with differential equations?
Why do people think you're a liar?


What college does start engineers off with differential equations? Most engineers start with calc. I only knew a few people who had vector calculus in high school. Of course you hit differential equations sooner or later but that's not where you start.
 
2012-10-18 01:56:55 PM  

Kuroshin: kab: gingerjet: Exactly. I have three open positions right now that I can't fill.

Your pay sucks.
Your qualifications are absurd.
You're completely unwilling to train.

Any 1 of those 3 is your likely culprit.

Actually, most places are guilty of at least two of those, if not all three. #2 and #3 are the most damning. Bad pay can be negotiated or ignored until later. Stupidly high qualifications with no desire to train? That right there is why most tech places are failing to find good workers. I'm not talking about jobs that require an EE degree - I'm talking about network admin and IT jobs where people who left the field back in the crash could come in, get back up to speed, and re-up their certs. Everybody wants ONLY the perfect puzzle piece to fit their needs, and aren't willing to help mold what's out there into what they need.

So if you can't find qualified people for your job listings, it's your own damn fault. I, and hell, many people I know, all used to be in the IT field. When the bottom dropped out of the market, we left for greener pastures. Think I'm going to spend thousands of dollars keeping certs up to date over the years, or keep my knowledge perfectly fresh, in the hopes that maybe someday I might be able to get an IT job again that makes more than $30k/yr? Fark no. There are thousands of people just like me, who used to work in the field, but have grown rusty over the decade spent away from managing tech. We could easily do the jobs people are offering, but are barred at the gate with the initial requirements of current certs, advanced degrees (that were never required for the same job before), or absolute 100% mastery of current tech (which can only be had by actually managing said tech in a production environment - which none of us have in our homes).

There are literal geniuses out there who would get back into IT if they were given the leeway to train back up. Not offered.


Don't count out the other side of the coin too. The biggest area of unemployment is with Youth. If only employers were willing to train up younger talent to the level they need they would have a HUGE hook into a kid who just got out of college/uni with a massive debt and cant afford to job switch. The problem is that they aren't willing to train that gap between beginner and advanced. And realistically in the smart students/grads it wouldn't take very long at all.

The simple fact is that employers have become insane with their requirements. Yet if they stopped and looked at them for 2 seconds and realized when THEY got the job the requirements were 50% less than they are asking for. Yeah increasing the requirements might be "A way" to thin the pile of applications, but what you have to remember is you are also viewing a list of people who are getting more overqualified for the position with each requirement they fill. Making it MUCH more likely they will just bounce from the job at the first sign of more money elsewhere.

Not to mention business in general has this incredible naive view of compensation. They think paying less is getting more. Yet on the other side of the coin, they sit there in meetings all day long asking themselves how they can get MORE money from their customers and how to raise prices while reducing quality/quantity. If you cant get it through your stupid skulls that you cant pay people less AND simultaneously want more from them for your junk products, what makes you think you are smart enough to find a proper candidate for a job position?

And oh yeah. Anyone over 60 should immediately retire. CEO all the way down to freakin janitor. You had your life to plan for your retirement and you screwed it up. You already spent your kids and grand kids tax dollars at least let them have a job to try and pay it off without screwing over more of the future. You had your time. Step out of the way.
 
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