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(CNN)   Can presidents change gas prices? No, but gas prices can change presidents   (money.cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, U.S. Energy Information Administration, The Move, developing world, gas prices, developed country, crude oil, energy development, Department of Energy  
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1384 clicks; posted to Business » on 17 Oct 2012 at 1:06 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-17 12:02:53 PM  
growlersoftware.com
 
2012-10-17 12:25:23 PM  
Anyone whose vote is influenced by gas prices is a moron.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-17 12:27:55 PM  
The funny think is that the right would be screaming "socialism" if someone on the left complained about high gas prices, or suggested that the price should be something other than the highest the market will bear.
 
2012-10-17 12:51:54 PM  
"People are stupid...that's all I have."

encycl.opentopia.com
 
2012-10-17 01:04:09 PM  
The one Romney line that drives me nuts is "Gas was $1.80 when Obama took office and $4 now." How can people have such short memories? Gas hit $4 a gallon after Katrina, dropped a bit and then ramped up again until 2008. Speculators were breathlessly waiting for $200 oil. Goldman Sachs had a couple of tankers of oil they were holding off-shore while waiting for prices to rise before selling. The high gas prices triggered the recession and caused a massive drop in the price of all commodities which bottomed out with the collapse of the housing market. Have people honestly forgotten this in just 4 years?
 
2012-10-17 01:08:06 PM  

Mentat: The one Romney line that drives me nuts is "Gas was $1.80 when Obama took office and $4 now." How can people have such short memories? Gas hit $4 a gallon after Katrina, dropped a bit and then ramped up again until 2008. Speculators were breathlessly waiting for $200 oil. Goldman Sachs had a couple of tankers of oil they were holding off-shore while waiting for prices to rise before selling. The high gas prices triggered the recession and caused a massive drop in the price of all commodities which bottomed out with the collapse of the housing market. Have people honestly forgotten this in just 4 years?


Yes
 
2012-10-17 01:09:54 PM  

Mentat: The one Romney line that drives me nuts is "Gas was $1.80 when Obama took office and $4 now." How can people have such short memories? Gas hit $4 a gallon after Katrina, dropped a bit and then ramped up again until 2008. Speculators were breathlessly waiting for $200 oil. Goldman Sachs had a couple of tankers of oil they were holding off-shore while waiting for prices to rise before selling. The high gas prices triggered the recession and caused a massive drop in the price of all commodities which bottomed out with the collapse of the housing market. Have people honestly forgotten this in just 4 years?


I don't even remember the beginning of your paragraph.
 
2012-10-17 01:14:27 PM  
Presidents can set policies that encourage gas prices to go down. Such as not blocking additional drilling, using his party influence in congress to enact laws forcing the EPA to allow more refineries, setting regulations for a consistent fuel mix across the country, etc.

Or better yet, enact policies that are business friendly (the carrot) with harsh punishments if they screw the public (the stick)

As long as the stick is bigger than the carrot and everybody agrees to STFU, stop being deliberately destructive and focus on making a shiatload of money everybody wins.
 
2012-10-17 01:16:05 PM  

vpb: The funny think is that the right would be screaming "socialism" if someone on the left complained about high gas prices, or suggested that the price should be something other than the highest the market will bear.


blogs.e-rockford.com
I'm no goddamn socialist, you communist-loving Jew! But I also wasn't on the left.

// everything's coming up Milhous!
 
2012-10-17 01:19:38 PM  
We have these all over Miami. What are we stupid? We can't remember 4 years ago that gas price dropped of about a week? Came down from above four, then immediately jumped right back up?
http://bloggingblackmiami.typepad.com/.a/6a00e008c9c82f8834017d3cb5e9 b 9970c-500wi
 
2012-10-17 01:20:14 PM  
bloggingblackmiami.typepad.com

oops
 
2012-10-17 01:22:37 PM  
The President can't, but the Federal Reserve can. You want low gas prices? Bump the Fed Funds rate to 10% and watch the prices drop. Of course, the economy will tank in the process...
 
2012-10-17 01:26:55 PM  
The Right's obsession with gas prices to use against Obama... Noticed how gas prices crashed during the 2008 crisis... also noticed that the all-time avg. high in the US was during the summer of 2008... Under Bush... I don't think anyone wants gas prices to drop again due to a new crash of the economy... the same way it happened during Bush's last few months...
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-10-17 01:27:08 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Presidents can set policies that encourage gas prices to go down. Such as not blocking additional drilling, using his party influence in congress to enact laws forcing the EPA to allow more refineries, setting regulations for a consistent fuel mix across the country, etc.


Oil production in the US has risen every year for the last five years, and there are more wells pumping now than at any time since Reagan took office. Oil consumption is down. In the "FREE MARKETZZ!!!" lala land of the right wing, supply and demand would dictate that gas should be cheaper than corn. But it's not.

How can that be?

Perhaps it is because IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH AMERICAN WELLS PRODUCE BECAUSE IT ALL GOES INTO GLOBAL MARKETS.

Every damn drop competes with the Chinese and the Indians. And that isn't the government's fault no matter who is in charge. That is Exxon and BP's fault. The only way you're going to get American oil staying in America is to nationalize it. And we all know the reaction to that.
 
2012-10-17 01:27:31 PM  
Establishing relative peace and favorable drilling conditions in the MidEast would go a long way towards dropping the price of oil. A shooting war with Iran would send oil through the roof, though. Like double the current rates, if not more
 
2012-10-17 01:30:33 PM  

Rent Party: Smeggy Smurf: Presidents can set policies that encourage gas prices to go down. Such as not blocking additional drilling, using his party influence in congress to enact laws forcing the EPA to allow more refineries, setting regulations for a consistent fuel mix across the country, etc.


Oil production in the US has risen every year for the last five years, and there are more wells pumping now than at any time since Reagan took office. Oil consumption is down. In the "FREE MARKETZZ!!!" lala land of the right wing, supply and demand would dictate that gas should be cheaper than corn. But it's not.

How can that be?

Perhaps it is because IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH AMERICAN WELLS PRODUCE BECAUSE IT ALL GOES INTO GLOBAL MARKETS.

Every damn drop competes with the Chinese and the Indians. And that isn't the government's fault no matter who is in charge. That is Exxon and BP's fault. The only way you're going to get American oil staying in America is to nationalize it. And we all know the reaction to that.


Production going up means nothing if the number of refineries are going down. That's what we need more than anything. Massively distributed production facilities will negate any real effect from storms, arson, accidents, etc.
 
2012-10-17 01:31:07 PM  
CNN Headlines During Bush: "Every morning Bush gets up and sets the gas price for the day"

CNN Headlines During Obama: "Obama has no control at all over the price of gas"


Deeeerp.


And the government can change gas prices. The government makes more money per gallon with taxes than the oil companies do. Presidents don't really mess with that. They do mess with OPEC, drilling, pipelines and refineries though.
 
2012-10-17 01:36:54 PM  

Smeggy Smurf:
Every damn drop competes with the Chinese and the Indians. And that isn't the government's fault no matter who is in charge. That is Exxon and BP's fault. The only way you're going to get American oil staying in America is to nationalize it. And we all know the reaction to that.

Production going up means nothing if the number of refineries are going down. That's what we need more than anything. Massively distributed production facilities will negate any real effect from storms, arson, accidents, etc.


There has been no appreciable difference in the number of operating refineries in the US over the last five years. There are six less operating now (144) than there were in 2008, and the prior four year there were anywhere from 148 to 150.

Even if there a brazillion operating refineries, it wouldn't change gas prices at all, because American oil does not end up in American refineries. Those refineries have to bid against the rest of the planet for the oil that just got pumped out of American soil.
 
2012-10-17 01:50:39 PM  

hugram: The Right's obsession with gas prices to use against Obama... Noticed how gas prices crashed during the 2008 crisis... also noticed that the all-time avg. high in the US was during the summer of 2008... Under Bush... I don't think anyone wants gas prices to drop again due to a new crash of the economy... the same way it happened during Bush's last few months...
[farm9.staticflickr.com image 670x325]


I was looking for this to post. Just before the election the oil companies were in congressional hearings and laughing about how high the price of gas was. The day after the elections the price of gas started to drop, the housing market started to crash, by the time Obama took office the country was on it's way down.
The Republicans had to be very glad their man wasn't in office when the bottom dropped out. People tend to blame the person left holding the bag not the person that handed it to him.
 
2012-10-17 01:53:09 PM  

Smeggy Smurf:

Production going up means nothing if the number of refineries are going down. That's what we need more than anything. Massively distributed production facilities will negate any real effect from storms, arson, accidents, etc.



So you agree that the Keystone XL pipeline that currently ends with production around Kentucky is a bad idea as it will consolidate more production in the Pasadena/Texas City gulf coast area.
 
2012-10-17 01:54:48 PM  

wingnut396: Smeggy Smurf:

Production going up means nothing if the number of refineries are going down. That's what we need more than anything. Massively distributed production facilities will negate any real effect from storms, arson, accidents, etc.


So you agree that the Keystone XL pipeline that currently ends with production around Kentucky is a bad idea as it will consolidate more production in the Pasadena/Texas City gulf coast area.


It won't matter anyway. Refinery production is driven by US demand, which as we all noted, is going down. The number of operating refineries *should* be dropping.

Global demand is what is keeping oil prices high, and nothing else.
 
2012-10-17 02:00:52 PM  
would be nice if we had a way to collect a little bit of money from everyone. and then use a small portion of that money to come up with ways to get us off shiat that comes out of the ground in a part of the world that hates us. Sure, it won't be easy, and it might not pay off in the first few years, but goddamn it, this is america, not 'take the easy way out' town.

if only.
 
2012-10-17 02:01:47 PM  
Presidents can only change gas prices when a republican is in office and Democrats need a talking point. When a Democrat is in office and gas is up nearly three-fold since their guy took over, well, that's when we get into nuance and talk about trends or exogenous factors and other reasoning.
 
2012-10-17 02:04:55 PM  

Rent Party: wingnut396: Smeggy Smurf:

Production going up means nothing if the number of refineries are going down. That's what we need more than anything. Massively distributed production facilities will negate any real effect from storms, arson, accidents, etc.


So you agree that the Keystone XL pipeline that currently ends with production around Kentucky is a bad idea as it will consolidate more production in the Pasadena/Texas City gulf coast area.

It won't matter anyway. Refinery production is driven by US demand, which as we all noted, is going down. The number of operating refineries *should* be dropping.

Global demand is what is keeping oil prices high, and nothing else.


I completely agree with you. It funny those screaming we need more refineries in more places are backing a project to do exactly the opposite of that mantra.

As for the national gas standards, I'm sure the Republicans would back a bill to set all emissions standards to the California basis. You know, so it is easier on the refineries in making fewer blends.
 
2012-10-17 02:13:14 PM  

Mentat: The one Romney line that drives me nuts is "Gas was $1.80 when Obama took office and $4 now." How can people have such short memories? Gas hit $4 a gallon after Katrina, dropped a bit and then ramped up again until 2008. Speculators were breathlessly waiting for $200 oil. Goldman Sachs had a couple of tankers of oil they were holding off-shore while waiting for prices to rise before selling. The high gas prices triggered the recession and caused a massive drop in the price of all commodities which bottomed out with the collapse of the housing market. Have people honestly forgotten this in just 4 years?


While I hear this often, I don't agree with it. 8 years of speculation on housing, loose credit, and poorly executed quantitative models (CDOs and their ilk) were enough to "trigger" a recession. This pile of excess debt is still a drag on the economy.

If anything, the spike in oil prices was caused by a continued hot Chinese economy and a speculation bubble of dollars looking for somewhere to go. The National Bureau of Economic Research pegs the beginning of the recession as December 2007 several months before T. Boone Pickens was on CNBC every other day telling me that oil was going to $250. I don't buy this idea that energy prices trigger a recession. I see high energy prices to be the symptom of the end of a bubble and not a cause of it.
 
2012-10-17 02:14:07 PM  

wingnut396:

As for the national gas standards, I'm sure the Republicans would back a bill to set all emissions standards to the California basis. You know, so it is easier on the refineries in making fewer blends.


I'd like to see emissions standards changed so we could get some of those super efficient 70MPG diesels they have in Europe. This is one of those areas that I think the government is getting in the way. We now mandate clean diesel. We aught to have those clean diesel cars, and drive the fleet MPG average way up.
 
2012-10-17 02:16:38 PM  

Rent Party: wingnut396: Smeggy Smurf:

Production going up means nothing if the number of refineries are going down. That's what we need more than anything. Massively distributed production facilities will negate any real effect from storms, arson, accidents, etc.


So you agree that the Keystone XL pipeline that currently ends with production around Kentucky is a bad idea as it will consolidate more production in the Pasadena/Texas City gulf coast area.

It won't matter anyway. Refinery production is driven by US demand, which as we all noted, is going down. The number of operating refineries *should* be dropping.

Global demand is what is keeping oil prices high, and nothing else.


Cost of production is higher as well. The cost of getting oil out of shale rock with multiple fracking technology is more costly than sticking a pipe into Spindletop.

Good long term investment: Schlumberger.
 
2012-10-17 02:18:43 PM  

Smeggy Smurf:

Production going up means nothing if the number of refineries are going down. That's what we need more than anything. Massively distributed production facilities will negate any real effect from storms, arson, accidents, etc.


Margins are horrible in refining. That's why we're seeing the shuttering of smaller refineries and the expansion of larger one. Refiners need economies of scale.
 
2012-10-17 02:21:51 PM  

Rapmaster2000:
Global demand is what is keeping oil prices high, and nothing else.

Cost of production is higher as well. The cost of getting oil out of shale rock with multiple fracking technology is more costly than sticking a pipe into Spindletop.

Good long term investment: Schlumberger.


That, but the Canucks have gotten pretty good out of squeezing oil out of sand, and that is where most of our imports come from.

The rich sweet crude is all over in the Arab states right now, which is yet one more reason we need to get off of it.
 
2012-10-17 02:28:41 PM  
Since the #1 export of the US is refined fuels (gas, diesel, jet fuel), even additional refineries wouldn't lower the price. The price would still be competing on global markets.
 
2012-10-17 02:39:37 PM  
When did the Commodity Futures Trading Commission stop being part of the Executive Branch?

've seen the raw documents that prove the role of speculators. Commodity Futures Trading Commission records showed that in the summer of 2008, when gas prices spiked to more than $4 a gallon, speculators overwhelmingly controlled the crude oil futures market. The commission, which supposedly represents the interests of the American people, had kept the information hidden from the public for nearly three years. That alone is an outrage. The American people had a right to know exactly who caused gas prices to skyrocket in 2008 and who is causing them to spike today.

Even those inside the oil industry have admitted that speculation is driving up the price of gasoline. The CEO of Exxon-Mobil, Rex Tillerson, told a Senate hearing last year that speculation was driving up the price of a barrel of oil by as much as 40%. The general counsel of Delta Airlines, Ben Hirst, and the experts at Goldman Sachs also said excessive speculation is causing oil prices to spike by up to 40%. Even Saudi Arabia, the largest exporter of oil in the world, told the Bush administration back in 2008, during the last major spike in oil prices, that speculation was responsible for about $40 of a barrel of oil.

Just last week, Commissioner Bart Chilton, one of the only Commodity Futures Trading Commission members looking out for consumers, calculated how much extra drivers are being charged as a result of Wall Street speculation. If you drive a relatively fuel-efficient vehicle such as a Honda Civic, you pay an extra $7.30 every time you fill your tank. For larger vehicles, such as a Ford F150, drivers pay an extra $14.56 for each fill-up. That works out to more than $750 a year going directly from your wallet or pocketbook to the Wall Street speculators.

So as speculators gamble, millions of Americans are paying what amounts to a "speculators tax" to feed Wall Street's greed. People who live in rural areas like my home state of Vermont are hit harder than most because they buy gas to drive long distances to their jobs.

It doesn't have to work this way. The current spike in oil and gasoline prices was avoidable. Under the Wall Street reform act that Congress passed in 2010, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission was ordered to impose strict limits on the amount of oil that Wall Street speculators could trade in the energy futures market. The regulators dragged their feet.
 
2012-10-17 02:45:29 PM  

BullBearMS: It doesn't have to work this way. The current spike in oil and gasoline prices was avoidable. Under the Wall Street reform act that Congress passed in 2010, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission was ordered to impose strict limits on the amount of oil that Wall Street speculators could trade in the energy futures market. The regulators dragged their feet.


Do you suppose the CFTC has the power to impose strict limits on demand from China and India, too?

That would be awesome!

/ USA! USA! USA!!!
 
2012-10-17 02:48:21 PM  

Rent Party: BullBearMS: It doesn't have to work this way. The current spike in oil and gasoline prices was avoidable. Under the Wall Street reform act that Congress passed in 2010, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission was ordered to impose strict limits on the amount of oil that Wall Street speculators could trade in the energy futures market. The regulators dragged their feet.

Do you suppose the CFTC has the power to impose strict limits on demand from China and India, too?

That would be awesome!

/ USA! USA! USA!!!


I don't really care how much they overpay for oil. If they want to make speculators rich, by all means, let them do so.
 
2012-10-17 02:50:50 PM  

Aarontology: Anyone whose vote is influenced by gas prices is a moron.


img689.imageshack.us
You arrogant ass! Do you know how many votes that means for Romney? You've killed us all!

But seriously, the President does control some of the price of gas: 18.4 cents' worth.
 
2012-10-17 03:10:28 PM  

Rent Party: wingnut396: Smeggy Smurf:

Production going up means nothing if the number of refineries are going down. That's what we need more than anything. Massively distributed production facilities will negate any real effect from storms, arson, accidents, etc.


So you agree that the Keystone XL pipeline that currently ends with production around Kentucky is a bad idea as it will consolidate more production in the Pasadena/Texas City gulf coast area.

It won't matter anyway. Refinery production is driven by US demand, which as we all noted, is going down. The number of operating refineries *should* be dropping.

Global demand is what is keeping oil prices high, and nothing else.


Except when the price spikes while the supply is up and the demand is down.

Forget what you may have read about the laws of supply and demand. Oil and gas prices have almost nothing to do with economic fundamentals. According to the Energy Information Administration, the supply of oil and gasoline is higher today than it was three years ago, when the national average for a gallon of gasoline was just $1.90. Meanwhile, the demand for oil in the U.S. is at its lowest level since April of 1997.

also

While the global supply of oil will eventually dry up, the short-term flow has actually been increasing. In the six months before prices spiked in 2008, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, the world oil supply rose from 85.24 million barrels a day to 85.72 million. Over the same period, world oil demand dropped from 86.82 million barrels a day to 86.07 million. Not only was the short-term supply of oil rising, the demand for it was falling - which, in classic economic terms, should have brought prices at the pump down.

This isn't supply and demand driven. The price spikes have been due to speculation.
 
2012-10-17 03:10:58 PM  
If the President increases the production of oil domestically it would do very little to move the price. But I am convinced that every single President & Candidate already knows that. When they speak of increasing the supply they are merely talking about paying off constituents.

To lower oil prices the President could prevent banks, hedge funds, and pension funds (these are known as the "massive passives") from holding large multi-year long positions. We don't have much in the way of position limits anymore and it allows groups with alot of money to hoard oil contracts. It's not unusual to see a small group hold 25-30% of a market and that's a major problem.

The President would need to pressure the CFTC to enforce a new series of regulations but it could be done. It was attempted in 2008 under the "Energy Markets Emergency Act of 2008" but the bill did not pass.
 
2012-10-17 03:14:54 PM  

Flargan: The President would need to pressure the CFTC to enforce a new series of regulations but it could be done. It was attempted in 2008 under the "Energy Markets Emergency Act of 2008" but the bill did not pass.


It was successfully made part of the Wall Street "Reform" act of 2010, but the Obama administration has refused to enforce it.
 
2012-10-17 03:25:42 PM  

BullBearMS:
While the global supply of oil will eventually dry up, the short-term flow has actually been increasing. In the six months before prices spiked in 2008, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, the world oil supply rose from 85.24 million barrels a day to 85.72 million. Over the same period, world oil demand dropped from 86.82 million barrels a day to 86.07 million. Not only was the short-term supply of oil rising, the demand for it was falling - which, in classic economic terms, should have brought prices at the pump down.

This isn't supply and demand driven. The price spikes have been due to speculation.


Not to disagree with you about speculation, but speculation is an artificial limit on supply. I'm not buying up all the gas today, I'm buying up all of tomorrow's gas. Those that actually want gas tomorrow will have to pay higher prices to account for the now limited supply (because I own most of it.) When that price hits a ridiculous point, I will sell all the gas I bought yesterday, and laugh all the way to the bank.

It's not defying the laws of supply and demand, it is completely in line with the laws of supply and demand. Other than that, yeah.
 
2012-10-17 03:26:41 PM  

BullBearMS: Flargan: The President would need to pressure the CFTC to enforce a new series of regulations but it could be done. It was attempted in 2008 under the "Energy Markets Emergency Act of 2008" but the bill did not pass.

It was successfully made part of the Wall Street "Reform" act of 2010, but the Obama administration has refused to enforce it.


The United States has no authority whatsoever to enforce US law on foreign governments.
 
2012-10-17 03:27:48 PM  

BullBearMS: It was successfully made part of the Wall Street "Reform" act of 2010, but the Obama administration has refused to enforce it.


Didn't know that.

Could I get a link? If not no worries I can look it up later.

Shame its not enforced by the CFTC or anyone for that matter.
 
2012-10-17 03:30:30 PM  

Flargan: BullBearMS: It was successfully made part of the Wall Street "Reform" act of 2010, but the Obama administration has refused to enforce it.

Didn't know that.

Could I get a link? If not no worries I can look it up later.

Shame its not enforced by the CFTC or anyone for that matter.


It wouldn't matter because speculators also participate in a global market. If said speculator is sitting in London, Beijing, or Bangladesh, the US is powerless to prevent it.
 
2012-10-17 03:44:41 PM  

Rent Party: It wouldn't matter because speculators also participate in a global market. If said speculator is sitting in London, Beijing, or Bangladesh, the US is powerless to prevent it


Groups like ICE would be a challenge since they are already everywhere but NYMEX might be workable. At the very least we could keep the CFTC from handing out so many exemptions to position limits.

I know they are capable of playing regulatory abritrage and moving to avoid enforcement but at this point someone should try it.
 
2012-10-17 03:45:42 PM  
I meant to say "Regulatory arbitrage"
 
2012-10-17 03:51:58 PM  
presidents can't create jobs unless it involves lowering taxes but NOT allowing exemptions for the top 5% wealth earners.

The Romney Plan!
 
2012-10-17 04:01:41 PM  

Rent Party: Flargan: BullBearMS: It was successfully made part of the Wall Street "Reform" act of 2010, but the Obama administration has refused to enforce it.

Didn't know that.

Could I get a link? If not no worries I can look it up later.

Shame its not enforced by the CFTC or anyone for that matter.

It wouldn't matter because speculators also participate in a global market. If said speculator is sitting in London, Beijing, or Bangladesh, the US is powerless to prevent it.


As I've said before, if people in other countries want to pay a speculator tax, then let them.

Are you trying to claim the Saudis would no longer sell oil to the US if we prevented speculators from price gouging here?
 
2012-10-17 04:03:08 PM  

Rent Party: Even if there a brazillion operating refineries, it wouldn't change gas prices at all, because American oil does not end up in American refineries. Those refineries have to bid against the rest of the planet for the oil that just got pumped out of American soil.


Try telling that to us here in California. Because we haven't built a new refinery in twenty years, and in fact have closed four in the past decade or so, all existing refineries are operating at capacity. In addition, because of our regs regarding formulation, we can't buy gasoline from out of state if our existing refineries can't keep up. That means when anything happens to an existing refinery's output, supply is disrupted and the price jumps. That's why I paid $4.60 a gallon this morning. And just wait and see how bad it gets when the additional costs of the new cap-and-trade auctions that the legislature created kick in.
 
2012-10-17 04:06:29 PM  

BullBearMS: Rent Party: Flargan: BullBearMS: It was successfully made part of the Wall Street "Reform" act of 2010, but the Obama administration has refused to enforce it.

Didn't know that.

Could I get a link? If not no worries I can look it up later.

Shame its not enforced by the CFTC or anyone for that matter.

It wouldn't matter because speculators also participate in a global market. If said speculator is sitting in London, Beijing, or Bangladesh, the US is powerless to prevent it.

As I've said before, if people in other countries want to pay a speculator tax, then let them.

Are you trying to claim the Saudis would no longer sell oil to the US if we prevented speculators from price gouging here?


Speculators don't "price gouge here." That's what you don't get. You seem to think that oil from American wells goes onto on auction stage attended only by Americans and that the money trades hands amongst Americans. It doesn't. Oil from American wells goes onto a global market, where it is bid on by people all over the world, including speculators. The market is global, not US based. US Laws can prohibit speculators in New York and Houston from being assholes, but that's only a small fraction of the problem.

US laws can only prohibit speculators if said speculators fall into US jurisdiction. As most of them don't, the enforcement of such laws is going to have minimal effect on the markets.

Speculators in Saudi don't give a shiat what a US enforcement office has to say about what they do.
 
2012-10-17 04:12:53 PM  

Flargan: BullBearMS: It was successfully made part of the Wall Street "Reform" act of 2010, but the Obama administration has refused to enforce it.

Didn't know that.

Could I get a link? If not no worries I can look it up later.

Shame its not enforced by the CFTC or anyone for that matter.


This is from the beginning of last year.

Many experts point to speculative trading, not simple supply and demand, as one of the causes of the 2008 spike in oil prices. And today, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission - which is responsible for policing energy markets - said that energy speculation is at an all-time high:

Hedge funds and other speculators have increased their positions in energy markets by 64 percent since June 2008 to the highest level on record, according to data released by U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commissioner Bart Chilton. Speculative positions accounted for more than one million energy futures equivalent contracts as of January, according to the data.

CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton said in a speech today that high speculation is skewing prices. "We could have helpful limits in place that could guard against markets being adversely impacted by excessive speculation. We could do that now if we wanted. And, as you can tell, I want," Chilton said.

The CFTC was given the power to restrict speculation in the oil market by the Dodd-Frank financial reform law. But the agency has yet to implement the regulations, with its two Republican commissioners and one Democrat, Michael Dunn, expressing reservations. The CFTC actually missed the January 13 deadline to put speculation limits into place.

As Zornick reported, Dunn's term is ending this summer, giving the Obama administration an opportunity to appoint someone ready to fully implement the speculation restrictions included in Dodd-Frank.
 
2012-10-17 04:15:50 PM  

jjorsett: Rent Party: Even if there a brazillion operating refineries, it wouldn't change gas prices at all, because American oil does not end up in American refineries. Those refineries have to bid against the rest of the planet for the oil that just got pumped out of American soil.

Try telling that to us here in California. Because we haven't built a new refinery in twenty years, and in fact have closed four in the past decade or so, all existing refineries are operating at capacity. In addition, because of our regs regarding formulation, we can't buy gasoline from out of state if our existing refineries can't keep up. That means when anything happens to an existing refinery's output, supply is disrupted and the price jumps. That's why I paid $4.60 a gallon this morning. And just wait and see how bad it gets when the additional costs of the new cap-and-trade auctions that the legislature created kick in.


Refineries operate production according to demand. Demand for fuel is down. Refinery output will match that.

I get California has different rules for emissions, but thats something you need to take up with your state legislature. The fed can't help you there, either.
 
2012-10-17 04:19:21 PM  
"The truth is that politicians and the government, for the most part, have very little real control over gasoline prices. "

No real direct control (except for the small federal tax), but they can indirectly control the price (and usually in a bad way). Just go start two wars in the Middle East; bet the prices all shoot up. Real fast too.

/shock and awe hurt my wallet more than it hurt Iraq
//devaluing our money with QE3 didn't help much either
 
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