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(LA Times)   If you have to screw up the facts in a debate, try not to screw up on gun control. Especially if you're the leader of the God, Guns and More Guns party   (latimes.com) divider line 118
    More: Fail, automatic weapon, semiautomatic firearms, federal assault weapons ban, arms industries, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives  
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4297 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Oct 2012 at 10:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-17 09:04:07 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com

"Gun Grabbers like MItt Romney are notoriously ignorant about firearms and laws relating to firearms"
 
2012-10-17 09:10:29 AM
That was pretty bad - another example of reflexive lying on Romney's part. But what really had me scratching my head was the part about Massachusetts and how whatever the hell they had there was the result of bipartisanship and pro- and anti-gun cooperation.

So was he saying their ban in his state was cool because opposing sides cooperated? If so, WTF does that have to do with core issue and whether there should be such restrictions?

I'm not arguing one side or the other. I just want to know what the hell Romney was saying (or wasn't, as the case may be).
 
2012-10-17 09:13:53 AM

Diogenes: So was he saying their ban in his state was cool because opposing sides cooperated? If so, WTF does that have to do with core issue and whether there should be such restrictions?

I'm not arguing one side or the other. I just want to know what the hell Romney was saying (or wasn't, as the case may be).


He was saying whatever he thought would benefit him the most at the time. And he's tried to use the bipartisanship of the Mass Legislature during his tenure as Governor to say something he supported was good, but other people supporting the same thing aren't

It's how RomneyCare was a bipartisan free market solution to a health insurance problem, but National RomneyCare ObamaCare was a hyper partisan take over of health insurance.
 
2012-10-17 09:24:57 AM

Aarontology: He was saying whatever he thought would benefit him the most at the time. And he's tried to use the bipartisanship of the Mass Legislature during his tenure as Governor to say something he supported was good, but other people supporting the same thing aren't


If it were anyone but Romney, I'd claim you're not making any sense.
 
2012-10-17 09:29:15 AM

Diogenes: If it were anyone but Romney, I'd claim you're not making any sense.


One of the best parts about Romney's campaign is that my occasionally nonsensical stream of consciousness usually work. So I appreciate him for that to some degree.
 
2012-10-17 09:51:07 AM
I understand that Romney likes to hunt varmints. He has amassed an impressive trophy collection over the years.
 
2012-10-17 09:54:43 AM

mrshowrules: I understand that Romney likes to hunt varmints. He has amassed an impressive trophy collection over the years.


I don't think Bush's former foreign policy advisers count.
 
2012-10-17 10:41:39 AM
When that gun question came up I thought Romney was in trouble because he signed an assualt weapons ban but has the NRA endorsement. I didn't think he'd be stupid enough to mention the ban.

Then he mentioned it.

DRINKDRINKDRINKDRINKDRINK
 
2012-10-17 10:42:07 AM

Some genius comments in that article:

There is no reason for regular citizens to have automatic weapons. The only function of an automatic weapon is to kill people--lots of people. Only the military and the police should have them. Unfortunately, the current laws don't go that far, and possession of these weapons is an issue for law enforcement.


Yeah, except for the fact virtually no crimes are committed with F/A guns, great point.
 
2012-10-17 10:43:55 AM
 
2012-10-17 10:44:09 AM

Diogenes: That was pretty bad - another example of reflexive lying on Romney's part. But what really had me scratching my head was the part about Massachusetts and how whatever the hell they had there was the result of bipartisanship and pro- and anti-gun cooperation.

So was he saying their ban in his state was cool because opposing sides cooperated? If so, WTF does that have to do with core issue and whether there should be such restrictions?

I'm not arguing one side or the other. I just want to know what the hell Romney was saying (or wasn't, as the case may be).


I got the vibe that he was asserting some ephemeral betterness to the plan that made it appeal to even the pro-gun people, to assuage fears of other pro-gun people that Romney might actually be a moderate New England Republican.
 
2012-10-17 10:44:48 AM
I would love to have seen Paul Ryan's face when Romney started waxing poetic about his bipartisan assault weapons ban.
 
2012-10-17 10:45:28 AM
I thought single parents were responsible?
 
2012-10-17 10:46:02 AM
 
2012-10-17 10:46:43 AM

speakandgo: Looks like fox news already threw it down the memory hole "Audio Gap" (pop)


What. The actual. fark.
 
2012-10-17 10:47:44 AM

speakandgo: Looks like fox news already threw it down the memory hole "Audio Gap" (pop)


Holy shiat. Hahahahahaahhahhaha
 
2012-10-17 10:48:39 AM

speakandgo: Looks like fox news already threw it down the memory hole "Audio Gap" (pop)


Wow, that's pretty pathetic even by Fox News standards.
 
2012-10-17 10:48:57 AM

From the internet wayback machine:

"Deadly assault weapons have no place in America ," state Senator Obama said. "These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

When asked by a reporter if he supported the renewal of the federal "assault weapons" ban and if he had spoken to the senators about it, Senator Obama replied that it was not really his job to lobby on federal legislation, but that he shared Senator Kerry's and Senator Kennedy's position on the issue.


That's right, he wants your guns!

/except replace 'America' with 'Massachusetts'
//and then replace 'state Senator Obama' with Governor Romney
///Link
 
2012-10-17 10:49:22 AM
i.imgur.com

He's single ladies, and by marring him and having his children, you might just save the lives of dozens of people.
 
2012-10-17 10:51:52 AM
Crap, from this spin, romney must have done well. He pointed out that fully auto weapons are already illegal, and then tried to show how his ban that President Obama had already mentioned was a compromise. Crap crap crap crap crap. Obama is actually going to lose.
 
2012-10-17 10:52:25 AM
Guns don't kill people, children of women who leave abusive men kill people. Stay with him no matter what, ladies.
 
2012-10-17 10:52:57 AM
I'm a gun enthusiast, so if it weren't for all the racism, sexism and homophobia written in to the Republican platform and the fact that trickle-down economic policies have been an unquestionable disaster for the country, I could almost think about not voting for Obama.

You guys get rid of all that other stuff and you got yourself a single-issue voter right here.
 
2012-10-17 10:53:26 AM

thurstonxhowell: Guns don't kill people, children of women who leave abusive men kill people. Stay with him no matter what, ladies.


You see, the biggest problem with assault weapons is gay marriage.
 
2012-10-17 10:54:43 AM
Obama: But I also share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don't belong on our streets. And so what I'm trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced. But part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence. Because frankly, in my home town of Chicago, there's an awful lot of violence and they're not using AK-47s. They're using cheap hand guns.

Finally someone said this out loud.
 
2012-10-17 10:57:26 AM
I'm always surprised when I find out there's something new that FOX 'news' can do to surprise me. Every time I think, "OK. Rock bottom. Nothing they can do will surprise me from now on."

But they manage.
 
2012-10-17 10:57:27 AM

speakandgo: Looks like fox news already threw it down the memory hole "Audio Gap"


Can you advise what's missing? I'm trying my best...
 
2012-10-17 10:58:12 AM
Everyone knows the Bryco-Jennings corporation has deep pockets.
 
2012-10-17 10:58:23 AM

Karma Curmudgeon:

/except replace 'America' with 'Massachusetts'
//and then replace 'state Senator Obama' with Governor Romney
///Link


I was never very good at MadLibs.

/Not a mad Lib
//Except when a Fark Political thread is full of posts that are in various shades of red
///F Todd Akin
 
2012-10-17 10:58:36 AM

thurstonxhowell: Guns don't kill people, children of women who leave abusive men kill people. Stay with him no matter what, ladies.


Link

Link

Actual science that says children with a two parent household do better. OMG ROMNEY WANTS WOMEN ABUSED. This is what makes people like me afraid Romney is going to win big. Guess what, Obama admitted he wants to ban scary looking rifle's. He then admitted they really aren't the problem. Guns that poor people can afford are that problem.
 
2012-10-17 10:58:42 AM
From the transcript:

CROWLEY: Governor Romney, the question is about assault weapons, AK-47s.

ROMNEY: Yeah, I'm not in favor of new pieces of legislation on -- on guns and taking guns away or making certain guns illegal. We have

(AUDIO GAP)

OBAMA: because I do believe that if our young people have opportunity, then they're less likely to engage in these kind of violent acts.
 
2012-10-17 10:59:22 AM

THX 1138: speakandgo: Looks like fox news already threw it down the memory hole "Audio Gap"

Can you advise what's missing? I'm trying my best...


Looks like they fixed it already. They had the entirety of Romney's answer missing, replaced with (audio gap).
 
2012-10-17 10:59:30 AM

Calmamity: I'm a gun enthusiast, so if it weren't for all the racism, sexism and homophobia written in to the Republican platform and the fact that trickle-down economic policies have been an unquestionable disaster for the country, I could almost think about not voting for Obama


Considering Romney has enacted legislation restricting gun rights and Obama's only legislation regarding guns has been to expand rights, I've got to ask... wha?
 
2012-10-17 10:59:35 AM

THX 1138: speakandgo: Looks like fox news already threw it down the memory hole "Audio Gap"

Can you advise what's missing? I'm trying my best...


It looks like they've replaced it. What was missing was the entire conversation about Romney's assualt weapons ban.
 
2012-10-17 10:59:41 AM
We're discussing this and not how Obama said he wanted to reinstate the AWB?
 
2012-10-17 11:00:27 AM
If the NRA isn't just a wing of the GOP at this point, without any principles at all, they are sure trying hard to look like it.

Since being elected, Obama hasn't lifted a finger to change any gun laws, and has actively worked to shoot down any anti-gun legislative proposal from within his own party.

Romney, on the other hand, has a strong record on gun-control legislation, which might even help him with moderate voters, except that he tries to run away from it as fast as possible. If the NRA was really non-partisan, I would think that Obama would have received their endorsement in this cycle, which leads me to conclude that the NRA doesn't give a damn about the 2nd amendment, and are only a branch of the GOP.
 
2012-10-17 11:01:17 AM

max_pooper: speakandgo: Looks like fox news already threw it down the memory hole "Audio Gap" (pop)

Wow, that's pretty pathetic even by Fox News standards.


I don't get it. What am I looking for in the transcripts.
 
2012-10-17 11:01:51 AM

Frank N Stein: We're discussing this and not how Obama said he wanted to reinstate the AWB?


Agreed that's a dumb thing to say, but has pretty much zero chance of happening.
 
2012-10-17 11:02:17 AM

tricycleracer: It looks like they've replaced it. What was missing was the entire conversation about Romney's assualt weapons ban.


Damn. Now I'm trying to find an archived version. Could be nice to have, you know.
 
2012-10-17 11:02:25 AM

Frank N Stein: We're discussing this and not how Obama said he wanted to reinstate the AWB?


Wait a minute, didn't he have a supermajority in Congress for two years? Isn't that the excuse the righties use for everything Obama didn't get done? Well he had that, and didn't do this... what does that say?

(yes, I know it was actually for like 12 weeks, but let's turn that talking point around on them.)
 
2012-10-17 11:02:32 AM
Glad I quoted it before they 'fixed' it.
 
2012-10-17 11:03:15 AM
Obama: But I also share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don't belong on our streets. And so what I'm trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced. But part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence. Because frankly, in my home town of Chicago, there's an awful lot of violence and they're not using AK-47s. They're using cheap hand guns.

Then why do you want a scary weapons ban if you know that they are not the problem you marooon?
 
2012-10-17 11:03:49 AM

THX 1138: tricycleracer: It looks like they've replaced it. What was missing was the entire conversation about Romney's assualt weapons ban.

Damn. Now I'm trying to find an archived version. Could be nice to have, you know.


I still have it open in a window in Firefox. Where should I send it :)
 
2012-10-17 11:04:10 AM
The bolded portion below are the last words of the exchange in the Fox transcript. Italicized you will find the portion they omitted from their transcript. Underlined is where they pick back up again.

ROMNEY: ...certain guns illegal. We, of course, don't want to have automatic weapons, and that's already
illegal in this country to have automatic weapons. What I believe is
we have to do, as the president mentioned towards the end of his
remarks there, which is to make enormous efforts to enforce the gun
laws that we have, and to change the culture of violence that we have.

And you ask how - how are we going to do that? And there are a
number of things. He mentioned good schools. I totally agree. We
were able to drive our schools to be number one in the nation in my
state. And I believe if we do a better job in education, we'll -
we'll give people the - the hope and opportunity they deserve and
perhaps less violence from that. But let me mention another thing.
And that is parents. We need moms and dads, helping to raise kids.
Wherever possible the - the benefit of having two parents in the
home, and that's not always possible. A lot of great single moms,
single dads. But gosh to tell our kids that before they have babies,
they ought to think about getting married to someone, that's a great
idea.

Because if there's a two parent family, the prospect of living in
poverty goes down dramatically. The opportunities that the child will
- will be able to achieve increase dramatically. So we can make
changes in the way our culture works to help bring people away from
violence and give them opportunity, and bring them in the American
system. The - the greatest failure we've had with regards to - to
gun violence in some respects is what - what is known as Fast and
Furious. Which was a program under this administration, and how it
worked exactly I think we don't know precisely, where thousands of
automatic, and AK-47 type weapons were - were given to people that
ultimately gave them to - to drug lords.

They used those weapons against - against their own citizens and
killed Americans with them. And this was a - this was a program of
the government. For what purpose it was put in place, I can't
imagine. But it's one of the great tragedies related to violence in
our society which has occurred during this administration. Which I
think the American people would like to understand fully, it's been
investigated to a degree, but - but the administration has carried
out executive privilege to prevent all of the information from coming
out.

I'd like to understand who it was that did this, what the idea
was behind it, why it led to the violence, thousands of guns going to
Mexican drug lords.
OBAMA: Candy?

CROWLEY: Governor, Governor, if I could, the question was about
these assault weapons that once were once banned and are no longer
banned.

I know that you signed an assault weapons ban when you were in
Massachusetts, obviously, with this question, you no longer do support
that. Why is that, given the kind of violence that we see sometimes
with these mass killings? Why is it that you have changed your mind?

ROMNEY: Well, Candy, actually, in my state, the pro-gun folks
and the anti-gun folks came together and put together a piece of
legislation. And it's referred to as an assault weapon ban, but it
had, at the signing of the bill, both the pro-gun and the anti-gun
people came together, because it provided opportunities for both that
both wanted.

There were hunting opportunities, for instance, that haven't
previously been available and so forth, so it was a mutually agreed-
upon piece of legislation. That's what we need more of, Candy. What
we have right now in Washington is a place that's gridlocked.

CROWLEY: So I could - if you could get people to agree to it,
you would be for it?

ROMNEY: We have -

OBAMA: Candy?

ROMNEY: - we haven't had the leadership in Washington to work
on a bipartisan basis. I was able to do that in my state and bring
these two together.

CROWLEY: Quickly, Mr. President.

OBAMA: The - first of all, I think Governor Romney was for an
assault weapons ban before he was against it. And he said that the
reason he changed his mind was, in part, because he was seeking the
endorsement of the National Rifle Association. So that's on the
record.

But I think that one area we agree on is the important of parents
and the importance of schools, because I do believe that if our young
people have opportunity, then they are less likely to engage in these
kinds of violent acts. We're not going to eliminate everybody who is
mentally disturbed and we have got to make sure they don't get
weapons.


OBAMA: because I do believe that if our young people have
opportunity, then they're less likely to engage in these kind of
violent acts. 
 
2012-10-17 11:04:38 AM

CokeBear: Since being elected, Obama hasn't lifted a finger to change any gun laws


Actually, that's not correct.

He's enacted legislation increasing gun rights. But don't tell the derpers if you don't find people holding their hands over their ears to be a pretty sight.
 
2012-10-17 11:05:55 AM

globalwarmingpraiser: thurstonxhowell: Guns don't kill people, children of women who leave abusive men kill people. Stay with him no matter what, ladies.

Link

Link

Actual science that says children with a two parent household do better. OMG ROMNEY WANTS WOMEN ABUSED. This is what makes people like me afraid Romney is going to win big. Guess what, Obama admitted he wants to ban scary looking rifle's. He then admitted they really aren't the problem. Guns that poor people can afford are that problem.


Did you actually read what you linked? It specifically mentions calm two parent households. So yeah staying in an abusive relationship "for the children" is bullshait.
 
2012-10-17 11:06:52 AM

saintstryfe: Frank N Stein: We're discussing this and not how Obama said he wanted to reinstate the AWB?

Wait a minute, didn't he have a supermajority in Congress for two years? Isn't that the excuse the righties use for everything Obama didn't get done? Well he had that, and didn't do this... what does that say?

(yes, I know it was actually for like 12 weeks, but let's turn that talking point around on them.)


because he knows he would have gotten spanked over it come this election.... Just you wait if he gets reelected.

/not sure if serious.
 
2012-10-17 11:08:21 AM

THX 1138: CokeBear: Since being elected, Obama hasn't lifted a finger to change any gun laws

Actually, that's not correct.

He's enacted legislation increasing gun rights. But don't tell the derpers if you don't find people holding their hands over their ears to be a pretty sight.


It's almost as if the NRA wants to drum up contribution support by implying gun rights are at stake in this election and endorsing Obama would cost their financial bottom line.

But they wouldn't do that since they're not a political organization, right?
 
2012-10-17 11:08:38 AM

wippit: I still have it open in a window in Firefox. Where should I send it :)


email in profile.

/this is better than Christmas!
 
2012-10-17 11:08:51 AM

Fart_Machine: globalwarmingpraiser: thurstonxhowell: Guns don't kill people, children of women who leave abusive men kill people. Stay with him no matter what, ladies.

Link

Link

Actual science that says children with a two parent household do better. OMG ROMNEY WANTS WOMEN ABUSED. This is what makes people like me afraid Romney is going to win big. Guess what, Obama admitted he wants to ban scary looking rifle's. He then admitted they really aren't the problem. Guns that poor people can afford are that problem.

Did you actually read what you linked? It specifically mentions calm two parent households. So yeah staying in an abusive relationship "for the children" is bullshait.


Not only that but Mitt Romney in no way applied that women should stay in abusive relationships. I have done this type of thing defending the President before. The spin coming out of this is stupid. IU watched most of the debate, and it was tit for tat and you most likely think your guy won. This applies to Romney supportters as well.
 
2012-10-17 11:10:03 AM

snowshovel: max_pooper: speakandgo: Looks like fox news already threw it down the memory hole "Audio Gap" (pop)

Wow, that's pretty pathetic even by Fox News standards.

I don't get it. What am I looking for in the transcripts.


Fox news had the following clipped out and replaced with "(Audio Gap)"

"We of course don't want to have automatic weapons, and that's already illegal in this country to have automatic weapons. What I believe is we have to do as the president mentioned towards the end of his remarks there, which is to make enormous efforts to enforce the gun laws that we have and to change the culture of violence we have. And you ask how are we going to do that? And there are a number of things.

He mentioned good schools. I totally agree. We were able to drive our schools to be number one in the nation in my state, and I believe if we do a better job in education, we'll, we'll give people the hope and opportunity they deserve, and perhaps less violence from that.

But let me mention another thing, and that is parents. We need moms and dads helping raise kids. Wherever possible, the - the benefit of having two parents in the home, and that's not always possible. A lot of great single moms, single dads. But gosh, to tell our kids that before they have babies, they ought to think about getting married to someone - that's a great idea because if there's a two-parent family, the prospect of living in poverty goes down dramatically. The opportunities that the child will, will be able to achieve increase dramatically.

So we can make changes in the way our culture works to help bring people away from violence and give them opportunity and bring them in the American system.

The, one of the greatest failure we've had with regards to gun violence, in some respects, is what is known as Fast and Furious, which was a program under this administration - and how it worked exactly, I think we don't know precisely - but where thousands of automatic and AK-47-type weapons were, were given to people that ultimately gave them to drug lords. They used those weapons against - against their own citizens and killed Americans with them.

And this was a, this was a program of the government. For what purpose it was put in place, I can't imagine. But it's one of the great tragedies related to violence in our society which has occurred during this administration which I think the American people would like to understand fully. It's been investigated to a degree, but the administration has, has carried out executive privilege to prevent all the information from coming out. I'd like to understand who it was that did this, what the idea was behind it, why it led to the violence - thousands of guns going to Mexican drug lords.


With Fox News, you never know. It appeared like they were intentionally leaving out a rambling rant by Romney that really didn't answer the question, rambled on about education, teen pregnancy and Fast and Furious but most notably he said "We of course don't want to have automatic weapons." That doesn't really fit the NRA member dumbass redneck voting block so crucial to his campaign.

I will give Fox credit here, this actually appeared to be a legitimate omission due to lack of information that they corrected.
 
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