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(ABC)   The Cleveland Browns now officially have all the respectability of a freeway truck stop   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 46
    More: Obvious, Browns, Mike Holmgren, Joe Banner, Randy Lerner, fire sales  
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2395 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Oct 2012 at 3:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-16 03:17:08 PM  
Watch them draft another qb again.
 
2012-10-16 03:20:38 PM  
At least they don't have a puppy murderer at QB.
 
2012-10-16 03:21:28 PM  
Now? This is somehow a change in their status?
 
2012-10-16 03:26:03 PM  
rebuild #12235345
 
2012-10-16 03:26:58 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Now? This is somehow a change in their status?


Yes. From "unofficially" to "officially".
 
2012-10-16 03:27:11 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Now? This is somehow a change in their status?


It's an upgrade from "Bus station restroom".
 
2012-10-16 03:27:50 PM  
Joe Banner may be able to help bring the Browns up to respectability. He did a pretty good job helping Jeff Lurie run the Eagles.
 
2012-10-16 03:31:29 PM  
Does this mean Joe the Plumber will be their next head coach?
 
2012-10-16 03:33:42 PM  

myusernameisariddle: Watch them draft another qb again.


What they need more than a QB is WRs. Lots of them; which reminds me: Chad, TO and Burress are still out there. Crazy or farking not; Weeden needs some decent targets to throw at.
 
2012-10-16 03:35:20 PM  
Jimmy Haslam, III is a huge UT Volunteers booster. I wonder what his angle is... Buy Cleveland Browns, hire Nick Saban away from Alabama. Wait for Nick Saban to fail, again, in the NFL. Fly Nick Saban to Knoxville on private jet. Nick Saban becomes the coach of the Vols in 2015.
 
2012-10-16 03:38:07 PM  

Rwa2play: myusernameisariddle: Watch them draft another qb again.

What they need more than a QB is WRs. Lots of them; which reminds me: Chad, TO and Burress are still out there. Crazy or farking not; Weeden needs some decent targets to throw at.


Our WRs have actually done pretty well with Weeden this year when they've been healthy. Massaquoi and Benjamin were doing really well prior to both getting knocked out a couple weeks ago, Josh Gordon has come up huge these past couple weeks and Josh Cooper played well last week. Add that on top of Jordan Cameron, Ben Watson and Alex Smith being solid so far at tight end and our only real concern left on offense is Greg "Braylon Jr" Little.
 
2012-10-16 03:38:34 PM  

Rwa2play: myusernameisariddle: Watch them draft another qb again.

What they need more than a QB is WRs. Lots of them; which reminds me: Chad, TO and Burress are still out there. Crazy or farking not; Weeden needs some decent targets to throw at.


Of course, if Browns fans had said this last year instead of "HURR IT'S ALL MCCOY'S FAULT DRAFT THE OLD FOGEY HURR!", then maybe McCoy would still be the starter.
 
2012-10-16 03:41:05 PM  

Nabb1: Jimmy Haslam, III is a huge UT Volunteers booster. I wonder what his angle is... Buy Cleveland Browns, hire Nick Saban away from Alabama. Wait for Nick Saban to fail, again, in the NFL. Fly Nick Saban to Knoxville on private jet. Nick Saban becomes the coach of the Vols in 2015.


www.engology.com

Approves.
 
2012-10-16 03:44:52 PM  
How the hell are the Browns worth $1 billion? Score one for NFL socialism, I guess.
 
2012-10-16 03:46:46 PM  

velvet_fog: How the hell are the Browns worth $1 billion? Score one for NFL socialism, I guess.


Location, location, location.

It's the exception that proves the rule?
 
2012-10-16 04:11:41 PM  
Erroneous. Eventually the people at a freeway truck stop stop sucking and finish on the road.
 
2012-10-16 04:13:19 PM  
I don't know if subby has been out and about recently, but the modern generation of corporate owned truck stops (Love's, Pilot/FlyingJ, TA/Petro) are quite nice. Often cheap gas, large clean convenient stores, and the fast food/restaurant is usually outsourced so it's the same quality as in the standalone places.
 
2012-10-16 04:13:43 PM  
Can't blame Holmgren for getting out when he did. Way too much pressure on you after that first win of the season.
 
2012-10-16 04:14:37 PM  
Did Holmgren draft Haden or Jackson?

I know he didn't draft Joe Thomas and those three are about the best players on the team. If he drafted 2/3s of them, seems like he should have gotten more than 3 years.

Not like they were good before he got there. And now they are sort of rebuilding at least. Though they might end up regretting drafting Weinke.
 
2012-10-16 04:16:58 PM  
bucket of piss?
 
2012-10-16 05:00:10 PM  

Nabb1: Jimmy Haslam, III is a huge UT Volunteers booster. I wonder what his angle is... Buy Cleveland Browns, hire Nick Saban away from Alabama. Wait for Nick Saban to fail, again, in the NFL. Fly Nick Saban to Knoxville on private jet. Nick Saban becomes the coach of the Vols in 2015.


Saban is exactly the kind of me-first douche that would do something exactly like this. Good call.
 
2012-10-16 05:20:38 PM  

Nabb1: Jimmy Haslam, III is a huge UT Volunteers booster. I wonder what his angle is... Buy Cleveland Browns, hire Nick Saban away from Alabama. Wait for Nick Saban to fail, again, in the NFL. Fly Nick Saban to Knoxville on private jet. Nick Saban becomes the coach of the Vols in 2015.


Nick Saban going back to the Browns? Shiat, if he's as successful as he was the last time he worked for them, he's not gonna be leaving the NFL for a while.
 
2012-10-16 05:43:03 PM  
To all 'the owners can't afford their own stadiums so the public has to help' people - Lerner purchased the browns for $530 million in 1998. Even though that was the height of stock market foloishness and just in time to experience not one, not two, but three separate years with stock market declines of over 40% ('98, '01, '08) as well as the bank/real estate crises... he still was able to sell the team for almost double what he paid only 14 years earlier.

These guys should be paying for 100% of their own arena deals. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you can't afford to pay for the place your team uses to sell its product, your business model is broken. You do not have to support these stadium deals - they get money from you because you stand for it and it's pure idiocy.
 
2012-10-16 05:43:41 PM  

12349876: I don't know if subby has been out and about recently, but the modern generation of corporate owned truck stops (Love's, Pilot/FlyingJ, TA/Petro) are quite nice. Often cheap gas, large clean convenient stores, and the fast food/restaurant is usually outsourced so it's the same quality as in the standalone places.


... white knighting for freeway truck stops? Way to go Fark.

/Browns fan
 
2012-10-16 05:46:32 PM  

js34603: Did Holmgren draft Haden or Jackson?

I know he didn't draft Joe Thomas and those three are about the best players on the team. If he drafted 2/3s of them, seems like he should have gotten more than 3 years.

Not like they were good before he got there. And now they are sort of rebuilding at least. Though they might end up regretting drafting Weinke.


He drafted Haden but not Jackson.

I don't know why people have so much respect for Holmgren. He underachieved in Green Bay, where he should have won more than one Super Bowl with the talent that Ron Wolf assembled for him, and only succeeded in Seattle when they removed him from personnel decisions. Why people think he's such a great football mind is beyond me.
 
2012-10-16 05:47:49 PM  

velvet_fog: How the hell are the Browns worth $1 billion? Score one for NFL socialism, I guess.


The Browns have an incredibly loyal fan base. The Browns Backers is one of the largest fan clubs the world.
 
2012-10-16 06:06:16 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: js34603: Did Holmgren draft Haden or Jackson?

I know he didn't draft Joe Thomas and those three are about the best players on the team. If he drafted 2/3s of them, seems like he should have gotten more than 3 years.

Not like they were good before he got there. And now they are sort of rebuilding at least. Though they might end up regretting drafting Weinke.

He drafted Haden but not Jackson.

I don't know why people have so much respect for Holmgren. He underachieved in Green Bay, where he should have won more than one Super Bowl with the talent that Ron Wolf assembled for him, and only succeeded in Seattle when they removed him from personnel decisions. Why people think he's such a great football mind is beyond me.


Eh probably still the best GM/President the Browns ever had.
 
2012-10-16 06:28:27 PM  

js34603: Eh probably still the best GM/President the Browns ever had.


Paul Brown would like a word with you.
 
2012-10-16 06:48:27 PM  

NEDM: Nabb1: Jimmy Haslam, III is a huge UT Volunteers booster. I wonder what his angle is... Buy Cleveland Browns, hire Nick Saban away from Alabama. Wait for Nick Saban to fail, again, in the NFL. Fly Nick Saban to Knoxville on private jet. Nick Saban becomes the coach of the Vols in 2015.

Nick Saban going back to the Browns? Shiat, if he's as successful as he was the last time he worked for them, he's not gonna be leaving the NFL for a while.


Does he officially count as a branch of the Belichick coaching tree?
 
2012-10-16 07:17:40 PM  
Lerner purchased the browns for $530 million in 1998. Even though that was the height of stock market foloishness and just in time to experience not one, not two, but three separate years with stock market declines of over 40% ('98, '01, '08) as well as the bank/real estate crises... he still was able to sell the team for almost double what he paid only 14 years earlier.


Al cashed out in 2002...
 
2012-10-16 07:35:38 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-16 07:46:55 PM  

myusernameisariddle: Watch them draft another qb again.


They're trending the right way with QB picks.

Frye
A couple more QB picks, and they'll have a star.
 
2012-10-16 07:48:49 PM  

Troy McClure: myusernameisariddle: Watch them draft another qb again.

They're trending the right way with QB picks.

Frye - Quinn - McCoy - Weeden

They keep getting better.

A couple more QB picks, and they'll have a star.


Fixt. Stupid html.
 
2012-10-16 07:49:25 PM  

IlGreven: Of course, if Browns fans had said this last year instead of "HURR IT'S ALL MCCOY'S FAULT DRAFT THE OLD FOGEY HURR!", then maybe McCoy would still be the starter.


If McCoy could throw a pass farther than ten yards, he would still be the starter.

The Dreaded Rear Admiral: 12349876: I don't know if subby has been out and about recently, but the modern generation of corporate owned truck stops (Love's, Pilot/FlyingJ, TA/Petro) are quite nice. Often cheap gas, large clean convenient stores, and the fast food/restaurant is usually outsourced so it's the same quality as in the standalone places.

... white knighting for freeway truck stops? Way to go Fark.

/Browns fan


Well... he is right.

\one of these days I'll make it out to Walcott
 
rka
2012-10-16 08:30:25 PM  

Nabb1: Jimmy Haslam, III is a huge UT Volunteers booster. I wonder what his angle is... Buy Cleveland Browns, hire Nick Saban away from Alabama. Wait for Nick Saban to fail, again, in the NFL. Fly Nick Saban to Knoxville on private jet. Nick Saban becomes the coach of the Vols in 2015.


That's so crazy it just might work!
 
2012-10-16 08:47:34 PM  
Flying Hooks used to be the best truck stops on the road. Clean trucker facilities used to be a rare find. Chances are the Browns will still not be so good.
 
2012-10-16 09:06:40 PM  

12349876: I don't know if subby has been out and about recently, but the modern generation of corporate owned truck stops (Love's, Pilot/FlyingJ, TA/Petro) are quite nice. Often cheap gas, large clean convenient stores, and the fast food/restaurant is usually outsourced so it's the same quality as in the standalone places.


The last couple of Flying J truck stops I went to were shiatholes. That's why I point and laugh when I drive by them now.
 
2012-10-16 09:55:22 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: js34603: Did Holmgren draft Haden or Jackson?

I know he didn't draft Joe Thomas and those three are about the best players on the team. If he drafted 2/3s of them, seems like he should have gotten more than 3 years.

Not like they were good before he got there. And now they are sort of rebuilding at least. Though they might end up regretting drafting Weinke.

He drafted Haden but not Jackson.

I don't know why people have so much respect for Holmgren. He underachieved in Green Bay, where he should have won more than one Super Bowl with the talent that Ron Wolf assembled for him, and only succeeded in Seattle when they removed him from personnel decisions. Why people think he's such a great football mind is beyond me.


Holmgren grads out incredibly well when you consider that he comes on the heels of the disasters that were the Phil Savage and Eric Mangini years. The Browns have stocked up with a lot of pretty good young players over the last few years; let's hope the upward trend continues under the new ownership.
 
2012-10-16 11:01:44 PM  

downtownkid: Holmgren grads out incredibly well when you consider that he comes on the heels of the disasters that were the Phil Savage and Eric Mangini years. The Browns have stocked up with a lot of pretty good young players over the last few years; let's hope the upward trend continues under the new ownership.


But the reason he's going to be fired is that he made no effort to put quality veterans around those young additions. He took over a terrible roster, cleaned it out, and made no use of free agency to supplement his draft picks. That's why they've had top five picks under him. He decided to take the slower path possible to rebuild.
 
2012-10-16 11:31:35 PM  

Rwa2play: myusernameisariddle: Watch them draft another qb again.

What they need more than a QB is WRs. Lots of them; which reminds me: Chad, TO and Burress are still out there. Crazy or farking not; Weeden needs some decent targets to throw at.


That was what i was saying, they make horrible draft choices.
 
2012-10-17 03:50:12 AM  

Troy McClure: downtownkid: Holmgren grads out incredibly well when you consider that he comes on the heels of the disasters that were the Phil Savage and Eric Mangini years. The Browns have stocked up with a lot of pretty good young players over the last few years; let's hope the upward trend continues under the new ownership.

But the reason he's going to be fired is that he made no effort to put quality veterans around those young additions. He took over a terrible roster, cleaned it out, and made no use of free agency to supplement his draft picks. That's why they've had top five picks under him. He decided to take the slower path possible to rebuild.


They drafted a veteran quarterback. ;)
 
2012-10-17 08:06:11 AM  

Troy McClure: downtownkid: Holmgren grads out incredibly well when you consider that he comes on the heels of the disasters that were the Phil Savage and Eric Mangini years. The Browns have stocked up with a lot of pretty good young players over the last few years; let's hope the upward trend continues under the new ownership.

But the reason he's going to be fired is that he made no effort to put quality veterans around those young additions. He took over a terrible roster, cleaned it out, and made no use of free agency to supplement his draft picks. That's why they've had top five picks under him. He decided to take the slower path possible to rebuild.


That's silly. You don't sign veterans to fill out the roster until you have a solid base to work with. Signing veterans who were better than what they had but not talented enough to make the team a real contender is what got them in trouble in the first place.

Take the 2009 draft for instance. Mangini was taking exactly the tact you described. He wanted to get enough mediocre vets on the squad to improve the teams record and keep his job. This sort of short term thinking is through a series of trades he turned two first round draft picks into:

Alex Mack
Abe Elam
David Veikune
Kenyon Coleman
Bret Ratliff
James Davis

Mack is the only player still with the team. Had they not traded they could have had Mack and one of the following:

BJ Raji
Brian Cushing
Clay Matthews
Brian Orakpo
Jeremy Maclin
Percy Harvin
Hakeem Nicks
Michael Oher
Ziggy Hood

all of whom are top notch starters.

What you are suggesting Holmgren should have done is the exact opposite of how you build a proper team. Next season they will have a solid enough base that it makes sense to sign a few free agents to add to the mix; doing so before then would have been counterproductive.
 
2012-10-17 10:15:27 AM  

downtownkid: Take the 2009 draft for instance. Mangini was taking exactly the tact you described. He wanted to get enough mediocre vets on the squad to improve the teams record and keep his job. This sort of short term thinking is through a series of trades he turned two first round draft picks into:

Alex Mack
Abe Elam
David Veikune
Kenyon Coleman
Bret Ratliff
James Davis

Mack is the only player still with the team. Had they not traded they could have had Mack and one of the following:

BJ Raji
Brian Cushing
Clay Matthews
Brian Orakpo
Jeremy Maclin
Percy Harvin
Hakeem Nicks
Michael Oher
Ziggy Hood

all of whom are top notch starters.


Cleveland only had one first-round pick in the 2009 draft. They traded down twice before they drafted Mack. They could not have had Mack and those other guys, they could have had just one those other players but then they would not have had any of those draft picks they ultimately missed on. Hell, had they drafted properly they could have ended up with Mack and these three selections:

One of Jairus Byrd/Everette Brown/Connor Barwin
LeSean McCoy
William Moore

But the picks they made didn't pan out well for them. And it's not as if Holmgren has done any better even though he's used the same philosophy. The Atlanta trade was not a bad idea, but the ways they used those picks - Phil Taylor (giving up a 3rd round pick to get him), Greg Little (he's no Julio Jones, and that's being nice), Owen Marecic (to replace the already in-house, quality veteran Lawrence Vickers), then getting snookered by the Vikings into giving up three picks for Trent Richardson, who they could have drafted without giving those picks up, then the 29-year-old Brandon Weeden. In the end, they would have done better for themselves by simply staying put and drafting Julio Jones and Trent Richardson while re-signing Lawrence Vickers.
 
2012-10-17 11:40:30 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: downtownkid: Take the 2009 draft for instance. Mangini was taking exactly the tact you described. He wanted to get enough mediocre vets on the squad to improve the teams record and keep his job. This sort of short term thinking is through a series of trades he turned two first round draft picks into:

Alex Mack
Abe Elam
David Veikune
Kenyon Coleman
Bret Ratliff
James Davis

Mack is the only player still with the team. Had they not traded they could have had Mack and one of the following:

BJ Raji
Brian Cushing
Clay Matthews
Brian Orakpo
Jeremy Maclin
Percy Harvin
Hakeem Nicks
Michael Oher
Ziggy Hood

all of whom are top notch starters.

Cleveland only had one first-round pick in the 2009 draft. They traded down twice before they drafted Mack. They could not have had Mack and those other guys, they could have had just one those other players but then they would not have had any of those draft picks they ultimately missed on. Hell, had they drafted properly they could have ended up with Mack and these three selections:

One of Jairus Byrd/Everette Brown/Connor Barwin
LeSean McCoy
William Moore

But the picks they made didn't pan out well for them. And it's not as if Holmgren has done any better even though he's used the same philosophy. The Atlanta trade was not a bad idea, but the ways they used those picks - Phil Taylor (giving up a 3rd round pick to get him), Greg Little (he's no Julio Jones, and that's being nice), Owen Marecic (to replace the already in-house, quality veteran Lawrence Vickers), then getting snookered by the Vikings into giving up three picks for Trent Richardson, who they could have drafted without giving those picks up, then the 29-year-old Brandon Weeden. In the end, they would have done better for themselves by simply staying put and drafting Julio Jones and Trent Richardson while re-signing Lawrence Vickers.


You are right, my bad on the two first rounders in 2009. Still, I would argue that Holmgren's philosophy wa snot the same as Mangini's. They both traded down, but Mangini's trades were aimed at adding spare parts consisting of mediocre vets, Holmgren's were used to secure more draft picks.

Phil Taylor is injured, but before that he was looking like a pro bowl player in the making, cannot knock that selection. Little has been a bust with the drops, but still could work out. Marecic was a complete head scratcher with Vickers on the roster.

You can argue that the Browns have been suckered into giving up too much to move up, but I'll still take Holmgren's build through the draft philosophy over Mangini's spare parts approach any day of the week.
 
2012-10-17 01:48:43 PM  

IlGreven: NEDM: Nabb1: Jimmy Haslam, III is a huge UT Volunteers booster. I wonder what his angle is... Buy Cleveland Browns, hire Nick Saban away from Alabama. Wait for Nick Saban to fail, again, in the NFL. Fly Nick Saban to Knoxville on private jet. Nick Saban becomes the coach of the Vols in 2015.

Nick Saban going back to the Browns? Shiat, if he's as successful as he was the last time he worked for them, he's not gonna be leaving the NFL for a while.

Does he officially count as a branch of the Belichick coaching tree?


He was the Browns DC from 1991-1994. I'd say he does.
 
2012-10-17 09:10:26 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: But the picks they made didn't pan out well for them. And it's not as if Holmgren has done any better even though he's used the same philosophy.


I would say he's done okay with his drafting: Joe Haden and T.J. Ward in the first (along with McCoy and Hardesty who still have trade value), Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Jordan Cameron, Greg Little, and Owen Marecic all contribute from the second (or would, if Taylor hadn't been hurt), and Buster Skrine and Eric Hagg will probably stay on as ST-ers; and of course, this year you have Richardson, Weeden, and Billy Winn who's been a nice surprise in Taylor's absence. There are plenty of gaps left to fill, (WR and secondary the two most gaping), but Holmgren and Heckert got the ball rolling in the right direction, at least.
 
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