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(Newsweek)   "Mitt Romney was not a businessman; he was a master financial speculator who bought, sold, flipped, and stripped businesses," says noted liberal pinko former budget director for Ronald Reagan   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 254
    More: Interesting, Mitt Romney, David Stockman, Ronald Reagan, economic values, annual percentage yield, Dodge City, capital structure, free market economy  
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10380 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Oct 2012 at 12:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-15 10:30:52 AM
Myth Romney

everything is lies
 
2012-10-15 10:31:18 AM
He's not a businessman. He's a business, man.
 
2012-10-15 10:38:37 AM
Yeah but he's white and a huge supporter of the military industrial complex.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-15 10:41:43 AM
This is true of a lot the investment and finance industry. It produces nothing but makes money by manipulating the system. It's not hard to figure out why people like Romney hate government regulation so much.
 
2012-10-15 10:48:18 AM
That entire article should be preserved as Exhibit #1 in the case against unfettered western capitalism.
 
2012-10-15 10:50:44 AM
That's a kind of businessman.

Frankly it doesn't really matter. The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.

Most of the people that spout this nonsense have obviously never worked for a large corporation.. here's a tip, they're not exactly paragons of efficiency and creative thinking.
 
2012-10-15 11:06:56 AM
So, you think we'll be sold to China, or will a Anglo-Canadian consortium come in to buy a controlling interest in the USA?
 
2012-10-15 11:09:32 AM
And even if you do accept that he was a businessman, a genius who ran a company, what's he done since he retired in 1999?
 
2012-10-15 11:11:35 AM
Ich bin mit Mitt.
 
2012-10-15 11:17:21 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: That's a kind of businessman.


Then, I submit, so is the Mafia.
 
2012-10-15 11:31:41 AM

propasaurus: And even if you do accept that he was a businessman, a genius who ran a company, what's he done since he retired in 1999?


He ran the Olympics and then was a governor for 4 years. This is what Republicans look at.. Did he suck at running the Olympics? In a financial way yes but they don't see that. Did he invent Obamacare while governor of MA? Indeed he did but that doesn't matter. Did Bain Capital do all kinds of sneaky shiat? Of course they did but capitalism is capitalism and it doesn't matter because he hasn't run the company since 1999. The years of 1978-1999 have no bearing on who he is today and what he stands for today.
 
2012-10-15 11:33:51 AM

xynix: The years of 1978-1999 have no bearing on who he is today and what he stands for today.


apart from the fact that he's touting his business experience and a reason to vote for him.
 
2012-10-15 11:43:31 AM
Haven't heard from David Stockman for a while. I wondered what he's been up to.
 
2012-10-15 11:44:43 AM

FlashHarry: Myth Romney

everything is lies


Mitt Romney is secretly Cardassian. Whar Earf Cirtificat!? Whar?
 
2012-10-15 11:47:47 AM

xynix: The years of 1978-1999 have no bearing on who he is today and what he stands for today.


Yesterday seems to have no bearing on who he is today.
 
2012-10-15 11:53:14 AM
Anybody else see the Frontline that was on last week after the VEEP debate? It was basically dueling biographies of Obama and Romney.The show shared flattering and not so flattering things about both candidates, but the thing that struck me about Romney in both his business and political careers was so willing to say whatever it took to get he wanted. He literally does not have a single political principle that he has ever been willing to take a stand on.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice-2012/


Good stuff and worth the time to watch it
 
2012-10-15 12:08:07 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Exhibit #1 in the case against unfettered western capitalism.


That is quite possibly the greatest Fark handle of all time.

/I wonder if it would fit
//it's going on the list
 
2012-10-15 12:27:35 PM

Rev.K: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Exhibit #1 in the case against unfettered western capitalism.

That is quite possibly the greatest Fark handle of all time.

/I wonder if it would fit
//it's going on the list


"Unfettered Western Capitalism" does have a good ring to it. and the short form - UWC - isn't bad either.

/btw, that's one of the most epic profiles I've seen on here
 
2012-10-15 12:28:09 PM

NowhereMon: He literally does not have a single political principle that he has ever been willing to take a stand on.


Phooey. He's absolutely committed to not taking a stand; that's his principle.
 
2012-10-15 12:37:49 PM
Let's give him a chance to do it for the US, nothing else has worked so far.
 
2012-10-15 12:40:48 PM

probesport: Let's give him a chance to do it for the US, nothing else has worked so far.


Well, actually, basic Keynesian principles to pull us out of republican-induced tailspins followed by more conservative deficit-reducing efforts during times of prosperity when we can afford to pay off our debt have worked fine on more than one occasion, but your bald-faced lie is probably good too.
 
2012-10-15 12:42:17 PM

xynix: The years of 1978-1999 have no bearing on who he is today and what he stands for today.


So they wants someone LESS experienced than Obama?
 
2012-10-15 12:42:43 PM
The article would hold more weight if her weren't peddling a book, and for thirty bucks at that.
 
2012-10-15 12:43:42 PM

spelletrader: The article would hold more weight if her weren't he wasn't peddling a book, and for thirty bucks at that.


FTFM: I must have had a minor stroke or something.
 
2012-10-15 12:44:11 PM
So in other words, he's the perfect man to run the US.
 
2012-10-15 12:44:18 PM
He's a rich guy doing rich guy things with and endless supply of discretionary capital.
 
2012-10-15 12:44:27 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: probesport: Let's give him a chance to do it for the US, nothing else has worked so far.

Well, actually, basic Keynesian principles to pull us out of republican-induced tailspins followed by more conservative deficit-reducing efforts during times of prosperity when we can afford to pay off our debt have worked fine on more than one occasion, but your bald-faced lie is probably good too.


See, SOMEBODY gets it.
 
2012-10-15 12:44:52 PM
So, Romney was as much a businessman as Obama was a professor?
 
2012-10-15 12:46:00 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: probesport: Let's give him a chance to do it for the US, nothing else has worked so far.

Well, actually, basic Keynesian principles to pull us out of republican-induced tailspins followed by more conservative deficit-reducing efforts during times of prosperity when we can afford to pay off our debt have worked fine on more than one occasion, but your bald-faced lie is probably good too.


Yes, but it didn't do as well as he imagined it should have done, so therefore it was a total failure and we should try something else
 
2012-10-15 12:46:31 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: So, you think we'll be sold to China, or will a Anglo-Canadian consortium come in to buy a controlling interest in the USA?


Nah, everything will be privatized and franchised. These asshats are using Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash" as an instruction manual.
 
2012-10-15 12:46:32 PM
I've been following his commentary lately. David Stockman has turned out to be pretty cool.
 
2012-10-15 12:46:40 PM
Buying and selling businesses does not make you a businessman?? Get a brain, mormon. It makes you a Meta-Businessman!
 
2012-10-15 12:46:46 PM
Mitt also keeps his funds offshore which prevents them from trickling down to Americans. Draft dodging, tax avoidance, and firing people, he is truly America's greatest patriot.
 
2012-10-15 12:47:10 PM
Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....
 
2012-10-15 12:49:27 PM

SandMann: So, Romney was as much a businessman as Obama was a professor?


Obama burned down the school, fired all his students and shipped them all to China? What a dick.
 
2012-10-15 12:49:31 PM
So Bain gets involved in four steel companies. One of which ends up being closed down. So what about the other three? I thought he was some evil raider who destroys companies. Why didn't he do that to the other three? Ever heard of Dunkin Donuts? I'm just curious as to why Bain rebuilt and restructured that company, making it profitable again, and saving thousands and thousands of jobs, instead of raiding it and destroying it?

80% of the companies Bain became involved with while Romney was there were able to keep going and 20% failed. Until you can explain away the 80% your little "evil Bain destroys companies!" logic is going to fail.
 
2012-10-15 12:51:08 PM

mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....


Obama's been President for four years, numbskull. I would say that counts for a helluva lot more than "Vulture Capitalist" and lifetime mooch on the American tax system.
 
2012-10-15 12:51:13 PM
Romney is on record saying he believes that his 14% tax rate is perfectly reasonable, since that low rate allows "job creators" the capital they need to invest in new businesses.

So, how many jobs have you PERSONALLY created, Mitt, with that money from your 14% tax rate? He should have just lists and lists of businesses he has personally helped finance and create, and be able to point to a large number of jobs that this low tax rate allowed him to create.

How about it, Mitt? What have you been doing with all that money saved using such a low tax rate?
 
2012-10-15 12:51:50 PM
a master financial speculator who bought, sold, flipped, and stripped businesses an entire country

But jobs will be created. When dollar-heavy China goes shopping, Mandarin speakers will be needed to close business deals.
 
2012-10-15 12:52:45 PM

mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....


Give us some of Romney's "specifics"... Particularly, how 5 trillion in tax cuts and a doubling of the defense budgets is "revenue neutral". Also please detail all the loop holes that will be closed to pay for these cuts.

Thanks.
 
2012-10-15 12:52:59 PM
Sadly none of this matters. The thing that got Obama elected in the first place is the very thing that will cause this election to be a close one. It's his race.
 
2012-10-15 12:53:11 PM
This is why I am voting Republican for the first time in my life: if anyone is going to trade, flip, and strip me, it's going to be someone I trust not to take advantage of me afterwards
 
2012-10-15 12:53:18 PM

mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....


Look you uninformed WingNut, those neighborhoods in Chicago are really turning around. Change, it's teh awesome.
 
2012-10-15 12:55:37 PM
lynnrockets.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-15 12:56:21 PM

mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of got us into the current mess.....


In a word? Yes.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-15 12:56:41 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: So, you think we'll be sold to China, or will a Anglo-Canadian consortium come in to buy a controlling interest in the USA?


Why wouldn't we become a subsidiary of Koch Industries?
 
2012-10-15 12:57:06 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.


If a business has a non-profitable division - few want to buy its product or service - then it is best for the business to get rid of it. Some businesses also get rid of divisions that do make a profit but not enough - the capital invested in the division could make more profit elsewhere.

To run the US as a business there would need to be a way to get rid of non-profitable citizens and organizations, maybe using execution or deportation to get rid of people.
 
2012-10-15 12:57:57 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: btw, that's one of the most epic profiles I've seen on here


It's a labor of love.
 
2012-10-15 12:58:23 PM
Why does David Stockman hate Amurca?
 
2012-10-15 12:59:59 PM

NowhereMon: Anybody else see the Frontline that was on last week after the VEEP debate? It was basically dueling biographies of Obama and Romney.The show shared flattering and not so flattering things about both candidates, but the thing that struck me about Romney in both his business and political careers was so willing to say whatever it took to get he wanted. He literally does not have a single political principle that he has ever been willing to take a stand on.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice-2012/


Good stuff and worth the time to watch it


Saw that this weekend... very good program... someone had a quote about Mitt... that it didn't matter what he believed on an issue... he basically became the product the consumers were buying... whatever that was.
Oh, you want an 'extreme conservative'.. I'm an extreme conservative! You want pro-life... I'm very pro-life...(except for the years that I was very pro-choice...)
 
2012-10-15 01:00:31 PM

keylock71: mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....

Give us some of Romney's "specifics"... Particularly, how 5 trillion in tax cuts and a doubling of the defense budgets is "revenue neutral". Also please detail all the loop holes that will be closed to pay for these cuts.

Thanks.


If you would just take the time to read the specifics on Romney's budget plans you'd see that it will work only if you forward on the plan to 10 of your friends before midnight on November 5th. Otherwise we'll have 4 years of bad luck and our crushes will think we're ugly.
 
2012-10-15 01:00:55 PM
Because when a Republican says something that can be manipulated into making another Republican look bad, it's gospel. Then the same Republican says that supply side economics is good for America, it's time to get out the wood stake and burn him as a Nazi.

You people are entertaining, like monkeys.
 
2012-10-15 01:01:20 PM
Please don't sell us out to Mittens and Butch Patrick.
kthxbye BB
 
2012-10-15 01:01:30 PM

gameshowhost: Eddie Adams from Torrance: That's a kind of businessman.

Then, I submit, so is the Mafia.


"If you bet on a horse, that's gambling. If you bet you can make three spades, that's entertainment. If you bet cotton will go up three points, that's business. See the difference?" - Blackie Sherrod
 
2012-10-15 01:03:09 PM

Bendal: Romney is on record saying he believes that his 14% tax rate is perfectly reasonable, since that low rate allows "job creators" the capital they need to invest in new businesses.

So, how many jobs have you PERSONALLY created, Mitt, with that money from your 14% tax rate? He should have just lists and lists of businesses he has personally helped finance and create, and be able to point to a large number of jobs that this low tax rate allowed him to create.

How about it, Mitt? What have you been doing with all that money saved using such a low tax rate?


He's keeping the car elevator and dancing horse business going.

/next, he will install a horse elevator in his car
 
2012-10-15 01:03:23 PM

xynix: The years of 1978-1999 have no bearing on who he is today and what he stands for today.


we are a sum of our experiences. 1978-1999 has a HUGE bearing on who he is today due to the fact that those years shaped him into the questionable person he is today.

/I don't want either option in office
 
2012-10-15 01:03:30 PM
Yes, having lawyers for president has worked out so wall for us in the past.
 
2012-10-15 01:03:41 PM
Are you telling me Wall Street has a serious problem with people who have convinced politicians that the value of the modern banking industry is so essential to proper capitalization of actual productive industry that they deserve to be treated differently by the tax code and be essentially subsidized? Then, following this rent-seeking behavior, they developed methods of maximizing the money being retained by the investment class by leeching off those businesses they said they needed government support to try to help?

This is my shocked face. Next you'll tell me that they alternate between arguing that they have such complete mastery of what assets are the best investments will make this country better that attempts to reign them in only serves to harm the economy in the boom years, and then when things go bust they put out their cap and say there is no way they could have anticipated the asset they had invested so much in only to see the value grow so they kept investing more money into it was just a bubble and the country as a whole has needs to foot the bill because it was a financial Act of God. Then, when things get better, they go back to being geniuses who don't need to be stifled by government bureaucracy.
 
2012-10-15 01:04:42 PM

tommyl66: keylock71: mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....

Give us some of Romney's "specifics"... Particularly, how 5 trillion in tax cuts and a doubling of the defense budgets is "revenue neutral". Also please detail all the loop holes that will be closed to pay for these cuts.

Thanks.

If you would just take the time to read the specifics on Romney's budget plans you'd see that it will work only if you forward on the plan to 10 of your friends before midnight on November 5th. Otherwise we'll have 4 years of bad luck and our crushes will think we're ugly.


One need only send Romney their name , address, social security number, bank account routing and account number and a money order for $1000 (to cover administrative costs) and $10,000 will be deposited into their account immediately and a voucher for a brand new six figure job with health insurance will be mailed to them...
 
2012-10-15 01:06:12 PM
Newsweek? No way!!!
 
2012-10-15 01:07:17 PM

NowhereMon: Anybody else see the Frontline that was on last week after the VEEP debate? It was basically dueling biographies of Obama and Romney.The show shared flattering and not so flattering things about both candidates, but the thing that struck me about Romney in both his business and political careers was so willing to say whatever it took to get he wanted. He literally does not have a single political principle that he has ever been willing to take a stand on.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice-2012/


Good stuff and worth the time to watch it


I bring this up almost every time I talk to my mom about the election. Say what you will about the man but at least Obama kept several of his campaign promises and we can be pretty confident in where he stands on several issues but Romney? I don't even know, man.
 
GBB
2012-10-15 01:07:20 PM

FlashHarry: Myth Romney

everything is lies


"Mitt"... I bet that's not even his real name!!
 
2012-10-15 01:07:23 PM

Lundah: Snow Crash


Awesome book, i recommend it.
 
2012-10-15 01:07:45 PM
RTFA.

Is the writer named Pot?
 
2012-10-15 01:08:12 PM
Well, sure. We can't all be Community Organizers.
 
GBB
2012-10-15 01:08:59 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: That's a kind of businessman.

Frankly it doesn't really matter. The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.

Most of the people that spout this nonsense have obviously never worked for a large corporation.. here's a tip, they're not exactly paragons of efficiency and creative thinking.


...and they sure as shiat don't have your best interests in mind. Either as a customer, or employee.
 
2012-10-15 01:09:03 PM

gameshowhost: Eddie Adams from Torrance: That's a kind of businessman.

Then, I submit, so is the Mafia.


Fark you, pay elect me.
 
2012-10-15 01:09:17 PM

xynix: Yeah but he's white and a huge supporter of the military industrial complex.


So he's got that going for him. Which is nice.
 
2012-10-15 01:11:18 PM

Supahl33t: Yes, having lawyers for president has worked out so wall for us in the past.


This message brought to you by the Party of LincolnTM.
 
2012-10-15 01:13:15 PM

spelletrader: spelletrader: The article would hold more weight if her weren't he wasn't peddling a book, and for thirty bucks at that.

FTFM: I must have had a minor stroke or something.


Half a minor stroke; the pronoun was wrong, but the use of subjunctive mood was correct.
 
2012-10-15 01:13:28 PM
So, in summary. He's great at business. Cool.

/The Lama, big hitter, he gets all his advice from Mitt.
 
2012-10-15 01:14:01 PM

Lost Thought 00: Vegan Meat Popsicle: probesport: Let's give him a chance to do it for the US, nothing else has worked so far.

Well, actually, basic Keynesian principles to pull us out of republican-induced tailspins followed by more conservative deficit-reducing efforts during times of prosperity when we can afford to pay off our debt have worked fine on more than one occasion, but your bald-faced lie is probably good too.

Yes, but it didn't do as well as he imagined it should have done, so therefore it was a total failure and we should try something else


I swear I want to strangle someone every time I hear "The last four years have proven that Keynes was wrong! What we need to get us out of this recession is tax cuts to stimulate the economy!"

I've explained to them what Keynesianism is and that their policy is one of many that Keynes would recommend and if they believe that it means they are rejecting the Classical economic model. Wait a week, and again they are attacking Keynes as a big government Spendocrat/closet Marxist.
 
2012-10-15 01:15:36 PM

mark12A: "Community Organizer"


DRINK!!
 
2012-10-15 01:16:31 PM

vpb: This is true of a lot the investment and finance industry. It produces nothing but makes money by manipulating the system. It's not hard to figure out why people like Romney hate government regulation so much.


Rmoney and his kind hate more government the way a serial killer hates more cops.
 
2012-10-15 01:18:29 PM

keylock71: mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....

Give us some of Romney's "specifics"... Particularly, how 5 trillion in tax cuts and a doubling of the defense budgets is "revenue neutral". Also please detail all the loop holes that will be closed to pay for these cuts.

Thanks.


"We'll negotiate this with Congress" is apparently all the detail that's required.

You're welcome.
 
2012-10-15 01:18:40 PM
Was or was not Bain Capital better off with Romney?  If they were better off with him, he was a good businessman for Bain.  That was his job. 
 
I'd hate to elect someone who was a community organizer who was terrible at community organizing for his own community but really good for the other guys.
 
2012-10-15 01:19:04 PM

xynix: propasaurus: And even if you do accept that he was a businessman, a genius who ran a company, what's he done since he retired in 1999?

He ran the Olympics and then was a governor for 4 years. This is what Republicans look at.. Did he suck at running the Olympics? In a financial way yes but they don't see that. Did he invent Obamacare while governor of MA? Indeed he did but that doesn't matter. Did Bain Capital do all kinds of sneaky shiat? Of course they did but capitalism is capitalism and it doesn't matter because he hasn't run the company since 1999. The years of 1978-1999 have no bearing on who he is today and what he stands for today.


wut?
 
2012-10-15 01:19:53 PM
This is like saying Nancy Pelosi is a terrible Congresswoman because all she does is stuff that helps her side.
 
2012-10-15 01:20:10 PM

Supahl33t: Yes, having lawyers for president has worked out so wall for us in the past.


Yeah, because that Harvard MBA did such a stellar job.
 
2012-10-15 01:20:45 PM

Karma Curmudgeon: Supahl33t: Yes, having lawyers for president has worked out so wall for us in the past.

This message brought to you by the Party of LincolnTM.


I'll take Lincoln over Woodrow "Let the KKK in the White House" Wilson any day.
 
2012-10-15 01:21:48 PM

HairBolus: Eddie Adams from Torrance: The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.

If a business has a non-profitable division - few want to buy its product or service - then it is best for the business to get rid of it. Some businesses also get rid of divisions that do make a profit but not enough - the capital invested in the division could make more profit elsewhere.

To run the US as a business there would need to be a way to get rid of non-profitable citizens and organizations, maybe using execution or deportation to get rid of people.


Why do we need 50 corporate divisions? We can consolidate, merge some of the under-performing states.
 
2012-10-15 01:22:19 PM
He's the Not Obama, so all the white, blue collar and/or redneck types will vote against their own best interests.
 
2012-10-15 01:23:55 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.


Depends on your point of view. Romney is running on a campaign (supposedly) of reducing the debt and getting people back to work. Well, Romney is well-versed in making money. Run the government like a business--like Bain--and we'd be rolling in the moulah.

I'm guessing that's the spin people are trying to take on it. Unfortunately, running a country has a lot more nuances than just dealing with a spreadsheet.
 
2012-10-15 01:24:36 PM

I_C_Weener: This is like saying Nancy Pelosi is a terrible Congresswoman because all she does is stuff that helps her side.


That's not a good analogy.
 
2012-10-15 01:25:43 PM

Speaker2Animals: "We'll negotiate this with Congress" is apparently all the detail that's required.


Because Congress has such a stellar reputation for negotiating and compromising.
 
2012-10-15 01:26:11 PM
i274.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-15 01:27:27 PM
According to Ayn Rand, Romney is a looter.
 
2012-10-15 01:27:37 PM

spelletrader: spelletrader: The article would hold more weight if her weren't he wasn't peddling a book, and for thirty bucks at that.

FTFM: I must have had a minor stroke or something.


t3.gstatic.com

Oh. Wait. A *stroke*. As in, the brain.

Never mind. 

/what if you had a stroke while having a stroke?
 
2012-10-15 01:27:46 PM

gameshowhost: I_C_Weener: This is like saying Nancy Pelosi is a terrible Congresswoman because all she does is stuff that helps her side.

That's not a good analogy.


yeah, but he got to work a 'Nancy Pelosi' reference in there. Next up" "SOROS!"
 
2012-10-15 01:27:51 PM

Sofa King Smart: Oh, you want an 'extreme conservative'.. I'm an extreme conservative! You want pro-life... I'm very pro-life...(except for the years that I was very pro-choice...)


While I'm not fond of Mitt Romney, this pretty much describes every politician ever.

People keep saying he "stands for nothing" as if most politicians don't determine their next move by licking their finger and raising it to the wind. A more accurate representation might be seen as a difference of degrees, maybe. I've got an issue with detractors who continuously harp on his "chameleon" approach to politics as if he's cornered the marketshare on it.
 
2012-10-15 01:28:27 PM

xanadian: He's the Not Obama, so all the white, blue collar and/or redneck types will vote against their own best interests.


Uh, hello, whitey here, I wouldn't vote for Romney to be dogcatcher.
 
BN0
2012-10-15 01:28:38 PM

xanadian: Run the government like a business--like Bain--and we'd be rolling in the moulah.


Romney got rich while working at Bain. Bain didn't do so good. They fared about as well as a company as the stock market itself did during the same time period.

Bain Capital was much better for Romney than Romney was for Bain.

Also, look at what Bain REALLY did for Dunkin Donuts: saddled it with MASSIVE debt from it's own leveraged buyout. Thanks Bain!

Also Bain did wonders for KayBee Toys.. (look it up).
 
2012-10-15 01:29:33 PM

randomjsa: 80% of the companies Bain became involved with while Romney was there were able to keep going and 20% failed. Until you can explain away the 80% your little "evil Bain destroys companies!" logic is going to fail.


Which is great if you're a business or you own one (or your job at the firm is one of the prized few that isn't shipped out).

How many jobs were lost (on aggregate, if you can even find the numbers) through Mitt's "business savvy"?

It's not simply about dollars and cents. Real people have to bear the results of Mitt's "entrepreneurship". Not that such a way of doing business is by-definition wrong (saving money is good), but he should own both halves of that business plan, not just the half that saves rich people more money.
 
2012-10-15 01:29:40 PM

SkunkWerks: Sofa King Smart: Oh, you want an 'extreme conservative'.. I'm an extreme conservative! You want pro-life... I'm very pro-life...(except for the years that I was very pro-choice...)

While I'm not fond of Mitt Romney, this pretty much describes every politician ever.

People keep saying he "stands for nothing" as if most politicians don't determine their next move by licking their finger and raising it to the wind. A more accurate representation might be seen as a difference of degrees, maybe. I've got an issue with detractors who continuously harp on his "chameleon" approach to politics as if he's cornered the marketshare on it.


So both sides are bad, you say? What a unique perspective.
 
2012-10-15 01:30:34 PM

I_C_Weener: Was or was not Bain Capital better off with Romney?  If they were better off with him, he was a good businessman for Bain.  That was his job. 
 
I'd hate to elect someone who was a community organizer who was terrible at community organizing for his own community but really good for the other guys.


I guess the question then becomes if Romney is elected he will see all Americans as the people he is responsible to or if he will see his job as making sure that those who financed his run succeed even if it requires screwing over the little guy.

If your response to stories that Romney's business experience consisted primarily of bleeding companies he had control over dry, loading them up with debt, and then skipping town with his business partners now that they had the cash is "That was his job and he did it well. Why demonize him?" ignores that you have to consider if he sees the Presidency as more his job or just another means through which he can maximize profits for his partners.

I think "Romney is an evil man with ill intent" is a silly argument to make, I think he believes his administration will be what's best for America, but he also probably thought what he did at Bain was best for America since it strengthened the financial standing of the smartest guys in the room.
 
2012-10-15 01:30:39 PM
vpb:
This is true of a lot the investment and finance industry. It produces nothing but makes money by manipulating the system. It's not hard to figure out why people like Romney hate government regulation so much.

Government is the only reason there's a "system" to manipulate at all. A true weakly- or non-governed society would not have a sophisticated financial system that would allow money to be made simply by shuffling numbers around, nor would it have a central bank to help maintain economic and currency stability in times of crisis.

Without government the "economy" would be "armed men barter physical goods with other groups of armed men, while avoiding being robbed by more powerful groups of armed men and attempting to rob weaker groups of their own goods."
 
2012-10-15 01:31:13 PM

I_C_Weener: Was or was not Bain Capital better off with Romney? If they were better off with him, he was a good businessman for Bain. That was his job.


Ding!

Still makes him a slimebag in my book, but still. He got the job done. Whether that translates to at LEAST a moderately successful presidency is yet to be seen...but I'd rather not tempt fate. :/
 
2012-10-15 01:31:45 PM
Of course Romney thinks he's a job creator. Every financier thinks he can run a business. And every CEO thinks he's an economist.

Fact is, nothing that Romney is saying in his campaign shows that he has the slightest clue about how to manage an entire economy.
 
2012-10-15 01:32:08 PM

PanicMan: Speaker2Animals: "We'll negotiate this with Congress" is apparently all the detail that's required.

Because Congress has such a stellar reputation for negotiating and compromising.


So, do you think the Republicans would be able to recognize/acknowledge obstructionists in Congress if it were *their* man in the White House?
 
2012-10-15 01:33:14 PM

propasaurus: So both sides are bad, you say?


No. I say that If you want to apply what you feel is a pointed criticism to the matter of why Romney is bad, it's probably best to choose one that isn't true of about 99.99999% of people in the same profession. Or at the very least, you might point out how his adherence to it is in some way significantly different.

It tends to get down to brass tacks a hell of a lot faster.
 
2012-10-15 01:33:18 PM

Supahl33t: I'll take Lincoln over Woodrow "Let the KKK in the White House" Wilson any day.


And yet Wilson wasn't a lawyer but Lincoln was.

So, you don't really have a point, do you? Combined with this post, now I'm thinking you actually didn't try to make one, but instead are playing $10,000 Pyramid with us and the category is "Things Glen Beck might say".
 
2012-10-15 01:33:21 PM
If Romney runs America the way he ran companies under Bain...

He'll merge the Department of Education with Department of Defense to reduce overhead.
Sell off the gold in Fort Knox since it's not doing anything and pocket the profits as a management fee.
Recall all the promissory notes in exchange for shares in the Federal Government of the USA.
Ship all the prison labor jobs to China, freeing Federal Prisoners to do more government jobs.
Put running of the EPA, FDA, USDA, and DARPA to the lowest bidders.
Allow subletting of any federal lands to any company regardless of origin of ownership or history.
Oh, and fire all unionized federal employees and rehire some into new non-union organization.

Anything else I've missed. And I'm sorry if what I've described doesn't sound like a touch of sarcasm.
 
2012-10-15 01:33:37 PM

ghare: xanadian: He's the Not Obama, so all the white, blue collar and/or redneck types will vote against their own best interests.

Uh, hello, whitey here, I wouldn't vote for Romney to be dogcatcher.


Then you're one of the very few Republican-target-types (i.e., old white guys, fundies, etc) who's been paying attention.

/whitey here, too
//so white I glow in the dark

BN0: Romney got rich while working at Bain. Bain didn't do so good. They fared about as well as a company as the stock market itself did during the same time period.


Hmm. Interesting point. And, yeah, I had always wondered what happened to Kay-Bee...
 
2012-10-15 01:34:13 PM

randomjsa: Ever heard of Dunkin Donuts? I'm just curious as to why Bain rebuilt and restructured that company, making it profitable again, and saving thousands and thousands of jobs, instead of raiding it and destroying it?



Yeah, because stripping a steel company and Dunkin Donuts are the same thing. I'm sure there are buyers lined up worldwide to take Dunkin Donuts equipment.

lol

u more tarded every day
 
2012-10-15 01:35:03 PM

wildcardjack: He'll merge the Department of Education with Department of Defense to reduce overhead.


Hey now. I learned a LOT while in the military. And I'm sure such a merger would make things like the GI Bill run that much more smoothly.
 
2012-10-15 01:35:13 PM

ghare: According to Ayn Rand, Romney is a looter.


That can't be, he doesn't even drink Heineken.
 
2012-10-15 01:35:53 PM

xanadian: spelletrader: spelletrader: The article would hold more weight if her weren't he wasn't peddling a book, and for thirty bucks at that.

FTFM: I must have had a minor stroke or something.

[t3.gstatic.com image 260x146]

Oh. Wait. A *stroke*. As in, the brain.

Never mind. 

/what if you had a stroke while having a stroke?


Quite a mess, I'd imagine.
 
2012-10-15 01:37:15 PM

vpb: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: So, you think we'll be sold to China, or will a Anglo-Canadian consortium come in to buy a controlling interest in the USA?

Why wouldn't we become a subsidiary of Koch Industries?


Check the Congressional Record. We already are.
 
2012-10-15 01:37:43 PM

BN0: xanadian: Run the government like a business--like Bain--and we'd be rolling in the moulah.

Romney got rich while working at Bain. Bain didn't do so good. They fared about as well as a company as the stock market itself did during the same time period.

Bain Capital was much better for Romney than Romney was for Bain.

Also, look at what Bain REALLY did for Dunkin Donuts: saddled it with MASSIVE debt from it's own leveraged buyout. Thanks Bain!

Also Bain did wonders for KayBee Toys.. (look it up)STUDY IT OUT.


FTFY
 
2012-10-15 01:38:27 PM

xanadian: spelletrader: spelletrader: The article would hold more weight if her weren't he wasn't peddling a book, and for thirty bucks at that.

FTFM: I must have had a minor stroke or something.

[t3.gstatic.com image 260x146]

Oh. Wait. A *stroke*. As in, the brain.

Never mind. 

/what if you had a stroke while having a stroke?


Best. "The Stranger". Ever.
 
2012-10-15 01:38:43 PM

vpb: This is true of a lot the investment and finance industry. It produces nothing but makes money by manipulating the system. It's not hard to figure out why people like Romney hate government regulation so much.


Interestingly, this is one point on which Marx and Rand's philosophies agree: They both loathe the very people we seem to be rewarding the most.
 
2012-10-15 01:39:18 PM

on the road: Of course Romney thinks he's a job creator.


Well, he did create a lot of jobs -- overseas. He's never created a job here; he has only eliminated them. That's what LBO experts do. They buy a healthy company and a few that are tanking and combine them into a single holding company. They lay off a lot of people, send the work overseas, restructure the costs of the newly formed company, get a few quarters of profitability under their belts and then sell it.
 
2012-10-15 01:41:16 PM

xynix: The years of 1978-1999 have no bearing on who he is today and what he stands for today.


Exactly. He's running on business experience, not what he's done. It's like this: Mitt Romney is a Level 85 Businessman. Obama is level 30 at best. I mean, do you really want someone running this country who hasn't even fought Onyxia?
 
2012-10-15 01:47:06 PM
David Stockman was a world-class asshat when he worked for Reagan. In a sane world, it would probably have been pretty embarrassing for Mitt Romney that the guy who pioneered the use of supply side "theory" is repudiating it and him....
 
2012-10-15 01:47:26 PM
hey, go with what you know.
In this case I'd prefer he kept on going.
 
2012-10-15 01:47:39 PM

mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....


Really? that meme didn't work four years ago. Sure you want to play that tired old song again?
 
2012-10-15 01:48:42 PM

GranoblasticMan: vpb: This is true of a lot the investment and finance industry. It produces nothing but makes money by manipulating the system. It's not hard to figure out why people like Romney hate government regulation so much.

Interestingly, this is one point on which Marx and Rand's philosophies agree: They both loathe the very people we seem to be rewarding the most.


except Rand's philosophy conflates being very wealthy with being creative and productive
 
2012-10-15 01:48:52 PM
I love talking about how rmoney has no real position, but remember that the president flipped on gay marriage when it became politically favorable to him.
 
2012-10-15 01:49:30 PM

randomjsa: So Bain gets involved in four steel companies. One of which ends up being closed down. So what about the other three? I thought he was some evil raider who destroys companies. Why didn't he do that to the other three? Ever heard of Dunkin Donuts? I'm just curious as to why Bain rebuilt and restructured that company, making it profitable again, and saving thousands and thousands of jobs, instead of raiding it and destroying it?

80% of the companies Bain became involved with while Romney was there were able to keep going and 20% failed. Until you can explain away the 80% your little "evil Bain destroys companies!" logic is going to fail.


How about some links to back this up?
 
2012-10-15 01:49:50 PM

mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....


You're right... to deal with this mess of complex financial maneuvering required, we should get one of the people responsible for this mess of complex financial maneuvering to get us out of it. It's like hiring your kidnapper to rescue you.
 
2012-10-15 01:51:10 PM
So he's a businessman, then?
 
2012-10-15 01:51:40 PM
Using 'pinko' ironically, subby? You do know Stockman had an FBI file from his days as a radical @ MSU? 
 
2012-10-15 01:53:18 PM

Jaws_Victim: I love talking about how rmoney has no real position, but remember that the president flipped on gay marriage when it became politically favorable to him.


Sure, but Obama hasn't flipped back.

Romney doesn't flip-flop, he oscillates.
 
2012-10-15 01:53:32 PM

HairBolus: Eddie Adams from Torrance: The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.

If a business has a non-profitable division - few want to buy its product or service - then it is best for the business to get rid of it. Some businesses also get rid of divisions that do make a profit but not enough - the capital invested in the division could make more profit elsewhere.

To run the US as a business there would need to be a way to get rid of non-profitable citizens and organizations, maybe using execution or deportation to get rid of people.


Or get rid of welfare so that they die from illness, malnutrition or exposure to the elements.
 
2012-10-15 01:54:03 PM

randomjsa: So Bain gets involved in four steel companies. One of which ends up being closed down. So what about the other three? I thought he was some evil raider who destroys companies. Why didn't he do that to the other three? Ever heard of Dunkin Donuts? I'm just curious as to why Bain rebuilt and restructured that company, making it profitable again, and saving thousands and thousands of jobs, instead of raiding it and destroying it?

80% of the companies Bain became involved with while Romney was there were able to keep going and 20% failed. Until you can explain away the 80% your little "evil Bain destroys companies!" logic is going to fail.


80%? CITATION NEEDED.

You already show up in Red Team red, so I ain't holding my breath.
 
2012-10-15 01:55:43 PM

tommyl66: keylock71: mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....

Give us some of Romney's "specifics"... Particularly, how 5 trillion in tax cuts and a doubling of the defense budgets is "revenue neutral". Also please detail all the loop holes that will be closed to pay for these cuts.

Thanks.

If you would just take the time to read the specifics on Romney's budget plans you'd see that it will work only if you forward on the plan to 10 of your friends before midnight on November 5th. Otherwise we'll have 4 years of bad luck and our crushes will think we're ugly.


But I don't have 10 friends. And I am actually ugly.
 
2012-10-15 01:57:37 PM
It sure would be interesting having a corporate raider holding the keys to the kingdom. Every CEO in the country must be drooling at the thought of getting Romney into the White House. Let's take bets on how much deregulation will start happening as soon as he gets elected.
 
2012-10-15 01:59:03 PM

PunGent: 80%? CITATION NEEDED.


And just because they kept going doesn't mean they were in good shape or operating in anything resembling a desirable way. I mean hell Sealy is still around, but after Bain bought it it got over $600 million in debt added to it's books. That's not a good thing.
 
2012-10-15 01:59:09 PM

ScottRiqui: PanicMan: Speaker2Animals: "We'll negotiate this with Congress" is apparently all the detail that's required.

Because Congress has such a stellar reputation for negotiating and compromising.

So, do you think the Republicans would be able to recognize/acknowledge obstructionists in Congress if it were *their* man in the White House?


I think the lack of an initial public negotiating position would make it easy to blame Democrats as an emotional attack, and not a fact based attack. And frankly, Democrats suck at rebutting emotional attacks.
 
2012-10-15 01:59:43 PM
You know who else buys oversized assets, gets rid of the wasteful parts, knocks the rest into shape and sells it for a profit?

Butchers. Furniture makers. Natural resource companies. Most manufacturing businesses. Etc.
 
2012-10-15 02:00:02 PM

Bendal: Romney is on record saying he believes that his 14% tax rate is perfectly reasonable, since that low rate allows "job creators" the capital they need to invest in new businesses.


Which is a joke, since true business expenses are tax exempt, and would be unaffected by tax rate increases.
 
2012-10-15 02:04:03 PM
Sick of it!
 
2012-10-15 02:05:04 PM

ManateeGag: FlashHarry: Myth Romney

everything is lies

Mitt Romney is secretly Cardassian. Whar Earf Cirtificat!? Whar?


Don't be silly... We all know he's a Soong type android!

Moopy Mac: xynix: propasaurus: And even if you do accept that he was a businessman, a genius who ran a company, what's he done since he retired in 1999?

He ran the Olympics and then was a governor for 4 years. This is what Republicans look at.. Did he suck at running the Olympics? In a financial way yes but they don't see that. Did he invent Obamacare while governor of MA? Indeed he did but that doesn't matter. Did Bain Capital do all kinds of sneaky shiat? Of course they did but capitalism is capitalism and it doesn't matter because he hasn't run the company since 1999. The years of 1978-1999 have no bearing on who he is today and what he stands for today.

wut?


Not sure if serious... Did you really not know that we in Mass. have been living under "Obamacare" (though, we called it "Romneycare") since 2006? So-called Obamacare was based on Romneycare, and ends up being pretty much identical...
 
2012-10-15 02:05:32 PM
So when the private sector does it = evil. When Obama does it with bailouts, QE2, Solandra, etc = genius.

And liberals wonder why people think they are idiots.
 
2012-10-15 02:07:12 PM
imp07/Romney_Flip_FlopHQ.jpg
 
2012-10-15 02:10:01 PM
Maybe he should be forced to sew a big "M" on his clothes because he's a Mormon....and a big "1" seeing as how he is a 1%er.

Yea, that's it.


encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-15 02:10:09 PM
i235.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-15 02:11:45 PM

Karma Curmudgeon: Supahl33t: I'll take Lincoln over Woodrow "Let the KKK in the White House" Wilson any day.

And yet Wilson wasn't a lawyer but Lincoln was.

So, you don't really have a point, do you? Combined with this post, now I'm thinking you actually didn't try to make one, but instead are playing $10,000 Pyramid with us and the category is "Things Glen Beck might say".


My bad, we haven't had Democrat lawyers try to run the country.

Democratic and Republican Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates since 1980, and let's seehow many lawyers there were:

[Democratic] Attorneys (10 out of 12 total - 83%)
Obama
Biden
Kerry
Edwards
Lieberman
Clinton
Dukakis
Bentsen
Mondale
Ferarro
[Possibly Gore, who never graduated - if he's included, the percentage is 92%]
Carter was the only non-lawyer, non-law school attendee.

[Republican] Attorneys (2 out of 9 total - 22%)
Dole
Quayle

Non-lawyers - McCain, Palin, Bush 43, Cheney, Kemp, Bush 41 and Reagan

Keep on grasping there you twit.
 
2012-10-15 02:13:31 PM

xanadian: He's the Not Obama, so all the white, blue collar and/or redneck types will vote against their own best interests.


Please take some comfort in the fact that my old, white, blue collar (retired) ex-military dad will be voting for Obama. They're a rare breed, but they do exist.
 
2012-10-15 02:13:39 PM

lordaction: So when the private sector does it = evil. When Obama does it with bailouts, QE2, Solandra, etc = genius.

And liberals wonder why people think they are idiots.


Except that isn't what liberals think. But it's nice of you to participate in recycling by pulling the talking points pages out of Limbaugh's dumpster.
 
2012-10-15 02:13:57 PM

ManateeGag: Mitt Romney is secretly Cardassian. Whar Earf Cirtificat!? Whar?


Better slip a little cobalt diselenide into both candidates' drinking water at the next debate, just to be sure.
 
2012-10-15 02:21:14 PM
David Stockman?

Yes, I'm sure we can trust a guy who gave a middle finger to the Republican Party in 1986 to be non-partisan in his criticisms. I'm certain that a Wall Street finance guy who completely failed at running his own investment firm doesn't have any envy of someone who actually ran one successfully that might slant his judgment. I believe that someone whom the Bush SEC pursued and the Bush DoJ indicted for fraud doesn't have any resentment that might bias his opinions. And I know that the author of a new book will give his honest opinion, instead of something calculated to get publicity.

Seriously, can't you guys find a Romney critic with even a tattered shred of credibility?
 
2012-10-15 02:21:21 PM

WhyteRaven74: And just because they kept going doesn't mean they were in good shape or operating in anything resembling a desirable way. I mean hell Sealy is still around, but after Bain bought it it got over $600 million in debt added to it's books. That's not a good thing.


Sure it is! Do you know how many fees that debt produces? How much in servicing cost? That debt is a profit generator! Oh, you mean for the company? Screw the company.
 
2012-10-15 02:23:03 PM
At least Republicans didn't start this expensive and useless "war on drugs".
 
2012-10-15 02:24:59 PM

Detinwolf: It sure would be interesting having a corporate raider holding the keys to the kingdom. Every CEO in the country must be drooling at the thought of getting Romney into the White House. Let's take bets on how much deregulation will start happening as soon as he gets elected.


That's exactly what is happening... the top CEO's and "Job Creators" are actually using job stifling to bully the country into electing someone who will go back to deregulating and putting the failures back on the tax payers...

Corporate America and CEO's are pulling plays from local school districts that cut programs when they don't get that levy they ask for...

"Give us a tax free playground or we will leave the country! Oh and give us a playground without rules or chaperones or we won't hire people to back fill all those positions to relieve the double and triple work loaded paranoid employees we have left!"
 
2012-10-15 02:28:15 PM

austin_millbarge: lordaction: So when the private sector does it = evil. When Obama does it with bailouts, QE2, Solandra, etc = genius.

And liberals wonder why people think they are idiots.

Except that isn't what liberals think. But it's nice of you to participate in recycling by pulling the talking points pages out of Limbaugh's dumpster.


So I'm just imagining this whole thread then. Whenever I think liberals can't get anymore intellectually dishonest I run into someone like you. Thanks for the laugh! (but not a Biden laugh)
 
2012-10-15 02:31:03 PM

SandMann: So, Romney was as much a businessman as Obama was a professor?


I didn't know Obama was a professor. he's never suggested that I should vote for him because he was a professor, if he was one.
Mitt Romney, on the other hand, has suggested that I should vote for him, in part, because he's a "successful businessman". So the fact that he has never been any such thing is relevant to me.
 
2012-10-15 02:31:26 PM

CeroX: Detinwolf: It sure would be interesting having a corporate raider holding the keys to the kingdom. Every CEO in the country must be drooling at the thought of getting Romney into the White House. Let's take bets on how much deregulation will start happening as soon as he gets elected.

That's exactly what is happening... the top CEO's and "Job Creators" are actually using job stifling to bully the country into electing someone who will go back to deregulating and putting the failures back on the tax payers...
"


You mean like bailing out a failed GM, banks, taxpayer funded loans to fraudulent energy companies, a stimulus that did jack squat, etc....you mean putting those kind of failures back on the tax payers?

Vote for Obama!
 
2012-10-15 02:32:22 PM

mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....


So, 4 years as President of the United States of America doesn't give one experience to be President of the United States of America?
 
2012-10-15 02:36:27 PM

Bendal: So, how many jobs have you PERSONALLY created, Mitt, with that money from your 14% tax rate?


Well, there are the people who take care of his horse, and who built it's barn, and make all the nice tack...

And then there are all the jobs he's created in India, China, and Mexico when he laid off Americans.
 
2012-10-15 02:37:31 PM

Supahl33t: My bad, we haven't had Democrat lawyers try to run the country.

Democratic and Republican Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates since 1980, and let's seehow many lawyers there were:

[Democratic] Attorneys (10 out of 12 total - 83%)
Obama
Biden
Kerry
Edwards
Lieberman
Clinton
Dukakis
Bentsen
Mondale
Ferarro
[Possibly Gore, who never graduated - if he's included, the percentage is 92%]
Carter was the only non-lawyer, non-law school attendee.

[Republican] Attorneys (2 out of 9 total - 22%)
Dole
Quayle

Non-lawyers - McCain, Palin, Bush 43, Cheney, Kemp, Bush 41 and Reagan

Keep on grasping there you twit.


Percentage of Democratic lawyers presidenting us into a financial collapse - 0%

Percentage of Republican MBA's presidenting us into a financial collapse - 100%

Also, Romney has his juris doctorate as well as his MBA, so I put the probability that he will president us into a financial collapse at 204%. QED.
 
2012-10-15 02:40:21 PM

Karma Curmudgeon: Percentage of Democratic lawyers presidenting us into a financial collapse - 0%


Barney Frank wasn't a lawyer? I mean, I suppose he wasn't a president, but a lawyer? Yes. Very yes.
 
2012-10-15 02:40:23 PM

lordaction: So when the private sector does it = evil. When Obama does it with bailouts, QE2, Solandra, etc = genius.

And liberals wonder why people think they are idiots.


Dude, weak.
 
2012-10-15 02:40:42 PM

mark12A: complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess


I didn't realize that reinstating Glass-Steagall and making millionaires pay their fair share of taxes was so complex.
 
2012-10-15 02:41:18 PM
Wow. The right wing idiots are sure getting bolder on Fark. The dialog gets more and more strident every day.

I guess that's the desperation that comes from knowing you're going to lose the election.
 
2012-10-15 02:41:42 PM
 
2012-10-15 02:42:19 PM

propasaurus: And even if you do accept that he was a businessman, a genius who ran a company, what's he done since he retired in 1999?


hhmmm I dunno.. how about single handedly turning around the 2002 SLC Winter Olympics and also became the Governor of Massachusetts.... among a few thing he did.........

media.tumblr.com

what have you done lately with your life>?
 
2012-10-15 02:43:19 PM

Karma Curmudgeon: Percentage of Republican MBA's presidenting us into a financial collapse - 100%


wat

Didn't Reagan lead us into prosperity for a while there? Of course, it all shiat the bed under Bush Sr...

/bububut Reagan!
//but, yes, the TREND is about right...
 
2012-10-15 02:48:20 PM

mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....


not to play devil's advocate but in a way yes.. why ? because Obama knows he knows shiat about the economy therefore more likely to listen to actual experts.. whereas Mitt thinking he is an economics guru and uber businessman would more likely be more stubborn, prideful and close minded to ideas that are dissimilar to his in his administration.
 
2012-10-15 02:50:38 PM

Verzio: Seriously, can't you guys find a Romney critic with even a tattered shred of credibility?


So you can't defend Bain either eh?
 
2012-10-15 02:50:44 PM

DaCaptain19: At least Republicans didn't start this expensive and useless "war on drugs".


? The term was first used by U.S. president Richard Nixon, and was later popularized by the media.[7][8][9]
 
2012-10-15 02:51:32 PM
This reminds me of the time Jesus flew to America and talked with the native American indians, who are decendants of the Jews, as everyone knows
 
2012-10-15 02:51:33 PM

Bendal: So, how many jobs have you PERSONALLY created, Mitt, with that money from your 14% tax rate? He should have just lists and lists of businesses he has personally helped finance and create, and be able to point to a large number of jobs that this low tax rate allowed him to create.


Well he would have created at least 300-400 million jobs, but government regulations prevented him. Not to worry though, he has a plan to remedy that. By 2014 we'll have so many farking jobs that every American will need to have at least 3 jobs just to fill them all.
 
2012-10-15 02:52:35 PM

SuperNinjaToad: mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....

not to play devil's advocate but in a way yes.. why ? because Obama knows he knows shiat about the economy therefore more likely to listen to actual experts.. whereas Mitt thinking he is an economics guru and uber businessman would more likely be more stubborn, prideful and close minded to ideas that are dissimilar to his in his administration.


Community Organizer is just another word for communist agitator. Obama has destroyed the economy in 3 years with his Marxists policies. You are really arguing that a man that has lived on the public teat his entire life knows how the real world works and is more capable of turning everything around? I find that hard to believe.
 
2012-10-15 02:53:03 PM

Verzio: David Stockman?

Yes, I'm sure we can trust a guy who gave a middle finger to the Republican Party in 1986 to be non-partisan in his criticisms. I'm certain that a Wall Street finance guy who completely failed at running his own investment firm doesn't have any envy of someone who actually ran one successfully that might slant his judgment. I believe that someone whom the Bush SEC pursued and the Bush DoJ indicted for fraud doesn't have any resentment that might bias his opinions. And I know that the author of a new book will give his honest opinion, instead of something calculated to get publicity.

Seriously, can't you guys find a Romney critic with even a tattered shred of credibility?


Just a point of advice from a "liberal" Republican: Challenge the guy's facts, if you can. Don't make the guy or his life your target, it looks desperate and doesn't tend to convince people.
 
2012-10-15 02:53:15 PM

Supahl33t: Karma Curmudgeon: Supahl33t: I'll take Lincoln over Woodrow "Let the KKK in the White House" Wilson any day.

And yet Wilson wasn't a lawyer but Lincoln was.

So, you don't really have a point, do you? Combined with this post, now I'm thinking you actually didn't try to make one, but instead are playing $10,000 Pyramid with us and the category is "Things Glen Beck might say".

My bad, we haven't had Democrat lawyers try to run the country.

Democratic and Republican Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates since 1980, and let's seehow many lawyers there were:

[Democratic] Attorneys (10 out of 12 total - 83%)
Obama
Biden
Kerry
Edwards
Lieberman
Clinton
Dukakis
Bentsen
Mondale
Ferarro
[Possibly Gore, who never graduated - if he's included, the percentage is 92%]
Carter was the only non-lawyer, non-law school attendee.

[Republican] Attorneys (2 out of 9 total - 22%)
Dole
Quayle

Non-lawyers - McCain, Palin, Bush 43, Cheney, Kemp, Bush 41 and Reagan

Keep on grasping there you twit.


I notice you left Havard juris doctor Willard Romney off your list.
 
2012-10-15 02:54:54 PM

lordaction: So when the private sector does it = evil. When Obama does it with bailouts, QE2, Solandra, etc = genius.

And liberals wonder why people think they are idiots.


In what way did Obama buyout these firms, take out loans under their names, pay out the loaned money (as well as anything in the pension fund) as stock options and consulting fees to himself and his business associates, and then put them back on the market in worse shape? In fact, how does QE2 even factor into this? How is government acting to support private enterprise by injecting money into an economy currently suffering undercapitalization is in any way the same as a group of rent seeking lobbyists who abuse this aid for personal gain in a way that harms the ability of other firms to operate?

It would be like saying if your gardner gets mugged than you are the same as the thief for giving the guy the money that got taken from him.
 
2012-10-15 02:55:32 PM

SuperNinjaToad: propasaurus: And even if you do accept that he was a businessman, a genius who ran a company, what's he done since he retired in 1999?

hhmmm I dunno.. how about single handedly turning around the 2002 SLC Winter Olympics and also became the Governor of Massachusetts.... among a few thing he did.........

[media.tumblr.com image 500x224]

what have you done lately with your life>?


Single handedly? You mean by getting the federal government to bail out the Olympics and give sweetheart land deals to his cronies?
 
2012-10-15 02:56:48 PM

HairBolus: DaCaptain19: At least Republicans didn't start this expensive and useless "war on drugs".

? The term was first used by U.S. president Richard Nixon, and was later popularized by the media.[7][8][9]


So you stopped at the first sentence?

Less well-known today is that the Nixon Administration also repealed the federal 2-10-year mandatory minimum sentences for possession of marijuana and started federal demand reduction programs and drug-treatment programs. Robert DuPont, the "Drug czar" in the Nixon Administration, stated it would be more accurate to say that Nixon ended, rather than launched, the "war on drugs". DuPont also argued that it was the proponents of drug legalization that popularized the term "war on drugs".[11]
 
2012-10-15 02:57:57 PM
Time for another trip to the wood shed?

I guess not, I don't think Reagan is going to paddle anyone anymore.

/If you don't get this, google: education of david stockman
 
2012-10-15 03:04:19 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: That's a kind of businessman.

Frankly it doesn't really matter. The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.

Most of the people that spout this nonsense have obviously never worked for a large corporation.. here's a tip, they're not exactly paragons of efficiency and creative thinking.


As opposed to government.

How anyone can think Barack "Government Solves Everything" Obama deserves re-election after his epic fail escapes me.

And no, Obama didn't "inherit" anything. Obama fought long and hard and spent $750M - while promising to fix the economy within 3 years - to succeed George Bush as president. Obama makes it sound as if he involuntarily inherited debts from a deceased uncle.
 
2012-10-15 03:05:06 PM

xynix: Yeah but he's white and a huge supporter of the military industrial complex.

 
2012-10-15 03:07:08 PM

StanTheMan: How anyone can think Barack "Government Solves Everything" Obama deserves re-election after his epic fail escapes me.


Hint, there's this thing called the private sector, how about pursuing the issue of why it hasn't done much to improve things?
 
2012-10-15 03:07:49 PM

SuperNinjaToad: how about single handedly turning around the 2002 SLC Winter Olympics


Except he really didn't and then he took a bunch of government money to do what he did...
 
2012-10-15 03:08:03 PM

StanTheMan: And no, Obama didn't "inherit" anything


I guess those wars Bush kept off the books paid for themselves like he promised.
 
2012-10-15 03:10:25 PM

NowhereMon: mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of got us into the current mess.....

In a word? Yes.


I love this stupid liberal meme that Wall Street caused all of this. It's so convenient to absolve greedy, dishnest American homeownersborrowers, isn't it?

Liar loans - between dishonest greedy lenders and dishonest greedy borrowers - got us into the mess. Official government policy of lowering standards and flooding the market with credit got us into this mess.

The trading of mortgage backed securities and credit obligations (relying on said loans) compounded things, but would have done just fine had all those loans performed.

Liar loans and Fannie and Freddie and the Fed = HIV.
Wall Street = opportunistic infection that kills weakened body (i.e., AIDS).
 
2012-10-15 03:13:14 PM

lordaction: SuperNinjaToad: mark12A: Because a "Community Organizer" Is sooooo much better at dealing with the complex financial manuevering needed to get us out of the current mess.....

not to play devil's advocate but in a way yes.. why ? because Obama knows he knows shiat about the economy therefore more likely to listen to actual experts.. whereas Mitt thinking he is an economics guru and uber businessman would more likely be more stubborn, prideful and close minded to ideas that are dissimilar to his in his administration.

Community Organizer is just another word for communist agitator. Obama has destroyed the economy in 3 years with his Marxists policies. You are really arguing that a man that has lived on the public teat his entire life knows how the real world works and is more capable of turning everything around? I find that hard to believe.


Ahh, you're an idiot then.

Saying Obama has lived his whole life on the public teat has no reflection of his history. The fact that people think they can get away with this lie that he was raised on welfare rather than coming from a comfortably upper middle class home, this idea that he got government benefits every step of the way (or more benefits than everyone else got) has no reflection in reality.
 
2012-10-15 03:14:38 PM
 
2012-10-15 03:19:33 PM

StanTheMan: . Official government policy of lowering standards and flooding the market with credit got us into this mess.


Nothing stops someone from issuing a mortgage that doesn't meet certain government standards. The standards for things like FHA loans didn't change.

Liar loans and Fannie and Freddie and the Fed = HIV.

The private secondary mortgage market exists because there are people who don't like the returns they get going through Freddie Mac. And Fannie and Freddie had nothing to do with subprime mortgages, which were the whole problem.
 
2012-10-15 03:22:36 PM

NowhereMon: Anybody else see the Frontline that was on last week after the VEEP debate? It was basically dueling biographies of Obama and Romney.The show shared flattering and not so flattering things about both candidates, but the thing that struck me about Romney in both his business and political careers was so willing to say whatever it took to get he wanted. He literally does not have a single political principle that he has ever been willing to take a stand on.t


As opposed to Barack Obama's principled stands on gay marriage, closing Guantanamo Bay, not raising taxes during an economic downturn, no military action without congressional approval, saying high gas prices are caused by the president, and scores of other shiat I won't bore you with?

MSM's characterization: Obama 'evolves,' Romney 'flip-flops'
 
2012-10-15 03:24:47 PM

NowhereMon: Anybody else see the Frontline that was on last week after the VEEP debate? It was basically dueling biographies of Obama and Romney.The show shared flattering and not so flattering things about both candidates, but the thing that struck me about Romney in both his business and political careers was so willing to say whatever it took to get he wanted. He literally does not have a single political principle that he has ever been willing to take a stand on.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice-2012/

Good stuff and worth the time to watch it


That pretty much describes every politician. The job attracts that type of person, and most who aren't that type get sick of politics real quick.
 
2012-10-15 03:26:14 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: That entire article should be preserved as Exhibit #1 in the case against unfettered western capitalism.


Unfettered capitalism hasn't existed in this county in Romney's life.
 
2012-10-15 03:28:13 PM

NowhereMon: Anybody else see the Frontline that was on last week after the VEEP debate? It was basically dueling biographies of Obama and Romney.The show shared flattering and not so flattering things about both candidates, but the thing that struck me about Romney in both his business and political careers was so willing to say whatever it took to get he wanted. He literally does not have a single political principle that he has ever been willing to take a stand on.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice-2012/


Good stuff and worth the time to watch it


I did and it was great. I mentioned the same in an earlier thread. I learned more about both candidates in that hour and a half than I had up until then. Looking at Romney's career, it's hard to reach any other conclusion.

It's available online.
 
2012-10-15 03:29:37 PM

StanTheMan: , closing Guantanamo Bay,


There are two standing executive orders to close it, however Congress never came through on the money to make it happen. In the case of moving the prisoners to a new location on American soil a few members of Congress just about pissed themselves.
 
2012-10-15 03:38:23 PM

ManateeGag: FlashHarry: Myth Romney

everything is lies

Mitt Romney is secretly CardassianFerengi. Whar Earf Cirtificat!? Whar?


Fixed that for you.

C'mon, puts profit before all else, willing to say anything to make money and get ahead, comes from a tradition of oppressing women and having multiple wives?

He wants to be Grand Nagus of the United States.
 
2012-10-15 03:38:32 PM

WhyteRaven74: StanTheMan: . Official government policy of lowering standards and flooding the market with credit got us into this mess.

Nothing stops someone from issuing a mortgage that doesn't meet certain government standards. The standards for things like FHA loans didn't change.

Ha, you mean those now toughened 580 FICO standards? LOL! By the FHA's own admission, most lenders ask for higher than the FHA minimum,

Liar loans and Fannie and Freddie and the Fed = HIV.

The private secondary mortgage market exists because there are people who don't like the returns they get going through Freddie Mac. And Fannie and Freddie had nothing to do with subprime mortgages, which were the whole problem.


Bullshiat bullshiat bullshiat. How you can suggest such bullshiat is, well, bullshiat. First off, a "prime" mortgage under Fannie and Freddie was a 620 FICO score (FHA is now up to a "toughened" 580) out of 850. OK, show of hands Farkers, how many of you would loan six figures of your own money to someone with a sub-700 FICO score? How about sub-600? Go try and rent an apartment with a 620 FICO.

Well, that exactly the risk that what taxpayers were underwriting when Fannie and Freddie bought all those mortgages. Which allowed lenders to make even more loans.

"From 2009 until the present, prime borrowers have accounted for the majority of all new foreclosure starts" - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

So yeah, "prime" for Fannie and Fred was/is a shiatty 620 FICO score, and most foreclosures are prime anyway. Plus, prime loans tend to be larger, so even more destructive.
 
2012-10-15 03:40:29 PM
FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS IN 3 YEARS. Bring on the excuses.
 
2012-10-15 03:41:17 PM

Dr Dreidel: Jaws_Victim: I love talking about how rmoney has no real position, but remember that the president flipped on gay marriage when it became politically favorable to him.

Sure, but Obama hasn't flipped back.

Romney doesn't flip-flop, he oscillates.


as was stated in his Mass. Gov. debate... Mitt isn't pro-choice or anti-choice... he's multiple choice.
 
2012-10-15 03:44:28 PM

Alonjar: Bendal: Romney is on record saying he believes that his 14% tax rate is perfectly reasonable, since that low rate allows "job creators" the capital they need to invest in new businesses.

Which is a joke, since true business expenses are tax exempt, and would be unaffected by tax rate increases.


Know how I know you don't know anything about business?
 
2012-10-15 03:44:35 PM

WhyteRaven74: StanTheMan: , closing Guantanamo Bay,

There are two standing executive orders to close it, however Congress never came through on the money to make it happen. In the case of moving the prisoners to a new location on American soil a few members of Congress just about pissed themselves.


I see, so Senator Barack Obama in 2008 had no way of knowing his irresponsible, impractical promise about closing Guantanamo Bay was not supported by the United States Congress.
 
2012-10-15 03:51:48 PM
My favorite Mitt fact: Protested FOR the draft for Vietnam (!) AND THEN GOT FOUR DEFERMENTS!

His reply "I was doing missionary work.. in france.." (Yeah, Im sure he was going door to door tellin the french they shouldnt be drinking wine..)

-chickenshiat chickenhawk
 
2012-10-15 03:55:46 PM
He's not Obama is all that matters at this point. That man has done more damage to this nation's economy that all of its previous enemies combined.
 
2012-10-15 03:59:40 PM

Verzio: Seriously, can't you guys find a Romney critic with even a tattered shred of credibility?


B-b-b-b-b-b-but

What? Muslim? Bin Laden? The Fed? Greenspan? Bernanke? Clinton? The Olympics? Taxes? Iran? Afghanistan? Welfare mothers? Trayvon?

Come on, man. Tell me why SOMETHING ELSE, ANYTHING should distract me from an explanation that shows in clear, unambiguous English how Mitt Romney's success comes from vulture capitalism.

Y'know, maybe you didn't read the piece, but Stockman says SEVERAL TIMES that he's not criticizing Bain's practices, which are all technically legal. He's pointing out that the scripted narrative of Mitt Romney as company-creating, job-creating, hard-working businessman who has built engines of capital creation from the ground up is a
load
of
shiat.

And if you have anything that proves otherwise, let's hear it. Otherwise, mouth == shut.
 
2012-10-15 04:00:16 PM
God damn. How many alts do the GOP Tards have in deep freeze anyway? How long have they been stockpiling them?
I'm seeing multiple freshly thawed out derpers on a daily basis. If that doesn't spell desperation, then I don't know what does.
 
2012-10-15 04:00:26 PM

Vtimlin: FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS IN 3 YEARS. Bring on the excuses.


Let me guess - you were the guy in Calculus 101 who kept saying "I'll never need to use first and second derivatives in real life"...
 
2012-10-15 04:00:42 PM

Grungehamster: I guess the question then becomes if Romney is elected he will see all Americans as the people he is responsible to or if he will see his job as making sure that those who financed his run succeed even if it requires screwing over the little guy.


You mean like how the owners of Solyndra, who financed Obama's run, made out, took all that money and then left the common man taxpayer holding bag?
 
2012-10-15 04:05:37 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: randomjsa: Ever heard of Dunkin Donuts? I'm just curious as to why Bain rebuilt and restructured that company, making it profitable again, and saving thousands and thousands of jobs, instead of raiding it and destroying it?


Yeah, because stripping a steel company and Dunkin Donuts are the same thing. I'm sure there are buyers lined up worldwide to take Dunkin Donuts equipment.

lol

u more tarded every day


You sound intelligent.
 
2012-10-15 04:09:41 PM

Goetz: God damn. How many alts do the GOP Tards have in deep freeze anyway? How long have they been stockpiling them?
I'm seeing multiple freshly thawed out derpers on a daily basis. If that doesn't spell desperation, then I don't know what does.


Well, you know that massive pile of money Rmoney has to run on, with SuperPAC's and all? Yeah, paid shills are cheap. Hell, some are probably even True Believers who are volunteers and not being paid.
 
2012-10-15 04:10:58 PM
I'm not any great fan of Reagan, but back in the day, a number of S&L swindlers were prosecuted, including Charles Keating, who actually did jail time. Even the "leftist" Obama has not moved against the current gang on Wall St and their bankster buddies, and this lot makes the S&L bunch look like amateur night by comparison. The Reagan type of Republican managed to retain some measure of adult self restraint. There is no doubt in my mind that the current bunch are outright sociopaths.
 
2012-10-15 04:13:46 PM

Voiceofreason01: except Rand's philosophy conflates being very wealthy with being creative and productive


This is wrong. The biggest villains in Rand's novels were people who were wealthy but not productive, or not creative. Wealth can be amassed through graft, theft, and coercion, all of which are opposed by Objectivists.

vpb: This is true of a lot the investment and finance industry. It produces nothing but makes money by manipulating the system. It's not hard to figure out why people like Romney hate government regulation so much.


The portion of the finance industry that makes money by producing nothing is the result of regulation. Mitt Romney is a nasty, opportunistic turd. But, speculation and stripping companies happen to be valuable to a great many people in the economy. Speculation provides a great deal of information to producers and consumers about supply & demand, and stripping companies results in better allocation of those resources.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Frankly it doesn't really matter. The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.

Most of the people that spout this nonsense have obviously never worked for a large corporation.. here's a tip, they're not exactly paragons of efficiency and creative thinking.


They're efficient enough to remain in business, and that's all that matters as far as efficiency is concerned. Government, however, cannot be run like a business. Government remains in power though violence, not by keeping its balance sheet in the black. And then there's the calculation problem - government's provision of goods and services is irrational.

Vegan Meat Popsicle: probesport: Let's give him a chance to do it for the US, nothing else has worked so far.

Well, actually, basic Keynesian principles to pull us out of republican-induced tailspins followed by more conservative deficit-reducing efforts during times of prosperity when we can afford to pay off our debt have worked fine on more than one occasion, but your bald-faced lie is probably good too.


Keynesian economics is the single biggest cause of cause of economic catastrophe in the western world. Capital is not homogenous. Creating new money doesn't create wealth, and can only stimulate malinvestment, by distorting the information contained in prices that producers rely upon. Keynesianism is old and busted.
 
2012-10-15 04:16:49 PM

Fissile: I'm not any great fan of Reagan, but back in the day, a number of S&L swindlers were prosecuted, including Charles Keating, who actually did jail time. Even the "leftist" Obama has not moved against the current gang on Wall St and their bankster buddies, and this lot makes the S&L bunch look like amateur night by comparison. The Reagan type of Republican managed to retain some measure of adult self restraint. There is no doubt in my mind that the current bunch are outright sociopaths.


and some of those S&L swindlers got off without so much as a slap on the wrist... Silverado S&L... Neil Bush
Silverado Savings and Loan collapsed in 1988, costing taxpayers $1.3 billion. Neil Bush, son of then Vice President of the United States George H. W. Bush, was on the Board of Directors of Silverado at the time. Neil Bush was accused of giving himself a loan from Silverado, but he denied all wrongdoing.[24]

The U.S. Office of Thrift Supervision investigated Silverado's failure and determined that Neil Bush had engaged in numerous "breaches of his fiduciary duties involving multiple conflicts of interest." Although Bush was not indicted on criminal charges, a civil action was brought against him and the other Silverado directors by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; it was eventually settled out of court, with Bush paying $50,000 as part of the settlement, the Washington Post reported.[25]

As a director of a failing thrift, Bush voted to approve $100 million in what were ultimately bad loans to two of his business partners. And in voting for the loans, he failed to inform fellow board members at Silverado Savings & Loan that the loan applicants were his business partners.[citation needed]

Neil Bush paid a $50,000 fine, paid for him by Republican supporters,[26] and was banned from banking activities for his role in taking down Silverado, which cost taxpayers $1.3 billion. A Resolution Trust Corporation Suit against Bush and other officers of Silverado was settled in 1991 for $26.5 million.
 
2012-10-15 04:20:18 PM
 
2012-10-15 04:20:40 PM

RobSeace: Not sure if serious... Did you really not know that we in Mass. have been living under "Obamacare" (though, we called it "Romneycare") since 2006? So-called Obamacare was based on Romneycare, and ends up being pretty much identical...


That's like saying you are allowed to bang the nanny because you are allowed to bang the wife.
 
2012-10-15 04:21:38 PM

StanTheMan: How anyone can think Barack "Government Solves Everything" Obama deserves re-election after his epic fail escapes me.


Since precious little in that sentence is true, no doubt much escapes you.
 
2012-10-15 04:29:49 PM

NightOwl2255: SandMann: So, Romney was as much a businessman as Obama was a professor?

Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors.


People with education know the difference between a full Professor and and the lesser grades of Professor. They are big differences. Someone of Obama's academic stature calling himself "Professor" is trying to pull one over.
 
2012-10-15 04:30:13 PM

geniusiknowit: Voiceofreason01: except Rand's philosophy conflates being very wealthy with being creative and productive

This is wrong. The biggest villains in Rand's novels were people who were wealthy but not productive, or not creative. Wealth can be amassed through graft, theft, and coercion, all of which are opposed by Objectivists.

vpb: This is true of a lot the investment and finance industry. It produces nothing but makes money by manipulating the system. It's not hard to figure out why people like Romney hate government regulation so much.

The portion of the finance industry that makes money by producing nothing is the result of regulation. Mitt Romney is a nasty, opportunistic turd. But, speculation and stripping companies happen to be valuable to a great many people in the economy. Speculation provides a great deal of information to producers and consumers about supply & demand, and stripping companies results in better allocation of those resources.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Frankly it doesn't really matter. The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.

Most of the people that spout this nonsense have obviously never worked for a large corporation.. here's a tip, they're not exactly paragons of efficiency and creative thinking.

They're efficient enough to remain in business, and that's all that matters as far as efficiency is concerned. Government, however, cannot be run like a business. Government remains in power though violence, not by keeping its balance sheet in the black. And then there's the calculation problem - government's provision of goods and services is irrational.

Vegan Meat Popsicle: probesport: Let's give him a chance to do it for the US, nothing else has worked so far.

Well, actually, basic Keynesian principles to pull us out of republican-induced tailspins followed by more conservative deficit-reducing efforts during times of prosperity when we can afford to pay off our debt have worked fine on ...


Austrian economic philosophy does not deal in empiricism, so it is worthless as a social science. Please stop linking to pseudo-econ.
 
2012-10-15 04:30:31 PM

Nutsac_Jim: RobSeace: Not sure if serious... Did you really not know that we in Mass. have been living under "Obamacare" (though, we called it "Romneycare") since 2006? So-called Obamacare was based on Romneycare, and ends up being pretty much identical...

That's like saying you are allowed to bang the nanny because you are allowed to bang the wife.


This analogy must be over my head or something, because it makes not the slightest bit of sense to me...

/Which one is hotter: the wife or the nanny?
 
2012-10-15 04:34:30 PM

Amos Quito: Ich bin mit Mitt.


Translation: I'm with stupid.
 
2012-10-15 04:40:21 PM

StanTheMan: Go try and rent an apartment with a 620 FICO.


Can be done though should be like not so long ago when you could rent an apartment and not worry about your credit sore.

irresponsible, i

He had no way to know there would be members of Congress all but pissing their pants when he went to actually close it. Also what's irresponsible about it?

SandMann: Someone of Obama's academic stature calling himself "Professor" is trying to pull one over.


Not according to the U of Chicago.
 
2012-10-15 04:42:38 PM

geniusiknowit: Creating new money doesn't create wealth, and can only stimulate malinvestment, by distorting the information contained in prices that producers rely upon.


The fact you typed that instead of explaining your position shows you have no idea what you're talking about and are just repeating whatever you've read someone else insists is right without actually learning to determine if it's right.
 
2012-10-15 04:51:54 PM

Ilmarinen: Amos Quito: Ich bin mit Mitt.

Translation: I'm with stupid.



Winner!
 
2012-10-15 04:52:55 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: That's a kind of businessman.

Frankly it doesn't really matter. The idea that we need a businessman to run government like a business is farking retarded.


Well, the problem is that it is the wrong kind of businessman to be considered an expert in job creation. And it matters because it is one of his primary credentials touted.

But yeah, I've always laughed when they talk about someone in the finance industry as a businessperson. They really don't have a lot of experience generally in the actual operations of a company that creates something (i.e. the necessary underpinning to any economy).

Furthermore, even if you're in finance I suppose it would be something if you were particularly successful at it, and worked your way up on your own merits. However, he doesn't seem to have that part nailed either.
 
2012-10-15 04:55:51 PM
Isn't it funny how these articles about how bad some business practices are always tend to be written by authors who have "seen the light" after working in the industry for 20 years? From a quick Google, Stockman faced SEC charges in 2007 for defrauding investors while CEO of Collins & Aikman. He had installed himself as CEO of the company in 2003 after his private equity firm bought the company. In 2005, the company went bankrupt after it turned out that the company had inflated earnings by colluding with another company to book round-trip transactions.

But all is forgiven in America
 
2012-10-15 04:57:43 PM

StanTheMan: MSM's characterization: Obama 'evolves,' Romney 'flip-flops'


Everyone's positions change over time unless they brain dead dogmatists.

What makes Romney a flip-flopper is that his changes are numerous, often occur over very short times, and always seen to happen at the most convenient timing imaginable.

Romney is against abortion. Then he ran for office in Massachusetts where such a position is untenable. He was then pro-choice. Then he decided to run for the GOP presidential nomination and thus become rabidly pro-life. Then he wins and needs the usual shift to the center and thus goes from rabid pro-life to a softer, more gentile pro-life.

The famous Obama evolution on same-sex marriage is one that millions of Americans have changed their minds on in the last few years. Changing one's mind when society does is hardly a flip-flop. Is every person who changed their minds about segregation in the 1960s a flip-flopper too? If this is a flip-flop then just call America a flip-flop.

Romney has changed loads of things particularly from before he was nominated to his position during the debates. In the debates he said he was not going to reduce taxes of rich people which contradicted everything he has ever said on the issue and is clearly not what he believes. Use of Google will find plenty of more examples.
 
2012-10-15 05:04:22 PM
Here are the FACTS:

Romney is a venture capitalist. He was able to capitalize on the business environment and took advantage of opportunities that avails themselves through shrewed dealings and savvy manipulation of business loopholes. Illegal? NO.. Morally questionable? perhaps. but he/Bain was successful at that.

Nothing more nothing less.

Some of his voters have no problem with it.. many others really don;t know what that means and just loosely calls him a successful businessman.
 
2012-10-15 05:07:00 PM

SandMann: People with education know the difference between a full Professor and and the lesser grades of Professor. They are big differences. Someone of Obama's academic stature calling himself "Professor" is trying to pull one over.


I know you're Fark's leading dunderhead, but did you even bother reading the linked source? According to you, the University of Chicago Law School, in its entirety, lacks your level of education. I bet you're on the way to the gym.
 
2012-10-15 05:15:23 PM
Mitt Romney = Richard Gere in Pretty Woman.

This is a pretty fair description of how he made his money
 
2012-10-15 05:18:27 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Some of his voters have no problem with it.. many others really don;t know what that means and just loosely calls him a successful businessman.


I think maybe if he didn't keep harping about jobs and telling Obama that he's too soft on China, I could chalk it up to him just being a sleazy corporate raider instead of also being a blatant hypocrite douchebag.
 
2012-10-15 05:24:36 PM

TheMysteriousStranger: The famous Obama evolution on same-sex marriage is one that millions of Americans have changed their minds on in the last few years. Changing one's mind when society does is hardly a flip-flop. Is every person who changed their minds about segregation in the 1960s a flip-flopper too? If this is a flip-flop then just call America a flip-flop.


Also, to be honest, many people suspected that Obama secretly supported same-sex marriage rights, he was just afraid of political consequences if he openly did it.

It's one reason his supporters really don't mind him "flip flopping" or evolving or whatever on the issue, it's more that he well "came out" in support of it, when people suspected he'd been "in the closet" about supporting marriage equality.

Even if he honestly did change his mind, yeah, polls show that a majority of Americans now support the issue, and that number has changed substantially in the last decade. Honestly, he's not the only one to say that he supports it now and didn't a while back.

Mitt's flip-flops aren't on pressing social issues where there is a general trend in one direction, and he followed the trend. It's changing positions back and forth in short order on a wide variety of issues. I honestly, right now, as somebody who keeps a close eye on US politics, tell you honestly what Mitt Romney's position is on almost any issue, because he's contradicted himself and changed his positions so many times that nobody knows for sure.
 
2012-10-15 05:30:56 PM

gameshowhost: Austrian economic philosophy does not deal in empiricism, so it is worthless as a social science. Please stop linking to pseudo-econ.


Empiricism cannot serve as the basis for economic understand. That's the biggest reason why other economic schools of rarely produce any valuable economic insight - in their rejection of aprioristic deduction, they all but ignore why people engage in economic activity, and spend most of their time dealing in what amounts to numerology. It's a social science, not a hard science, and you should mind the difference. People are not mindless particles, and the values that motivate their economic activity cannot be expressed or measured in cardinal terms. Economics should not deal in empiricism.

WhyteRaven74: The fact you typed that instead of explaining your position shows you have no idea what you're talking about and are just repeating whatever you've read someone else insists is right without actually learning to determine if it's right.


What I wrote was proportional to the comment to which I replied. It is not incumbent on me to detail an entire theory just to argue against someone's short comment on Fark. Feel free to contribute something to the discussion, though.
 
2012-10-15 05:34:06 PM
If "Corporations are people, my friend," wasn't Romney a serial killer at Bain?
 
2012-10-15 05:43:13 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Here are the FACTS:

Romney is a venture capitalist. He was able to capitalize on the business environment and took advantage of opportunities that avails themselves through shrewed dealings and savvy manipulation of business loopholes. Illegal? NO.. Morally questionable? perhaps. but he/Bain was successful at that.

Nothing more nothing less..


Well... no.

It's not "nothing more nothing less". The whole point of the article was to draw a line between productive businesses, such as someone who builds up an enterprise designing and selling watches, and the finance guys who are juggling money and inventing new derivatives.

Romney and the other finance guys are trying to squeeze their way under the "businessman" umbrella, but the bottom line is that isn't the type of businessman we need more of. We don't need more leveraged buyout guys, hedge fund managers, and venture capitalists. Romney is the crack dealer who's saying "it's just a different type of pharmaceutical".
 
2012-10-15 05:53:52 PM
NewsWeek is not a source to be trusted for news
 
2012-10-15 05:58:24 PM

HairBolus: DaCaptain19: At least Republicans didn't start this expensive and useless "war on drugs".

? The term was first used by U.S. president Richard Nixon, and was later popularized by the media.[7][8][9]


I was hoping for more reaction...I thought the nice touch on "War on Drugs" is that Mrs. Reagan made that her "cause" (Just Say No).
 
2012-10-15 06:00:34 PM

RobSeace: ManateeGag: FlashHarry: Myth Romney

everything is lies

Mitt Romney is secretly Cardassian. Whar Earf Cirtificat!? Whar?

Don't be silly... We all know he's a Soong type android!

Moopy Mac: xynix: propasaurus: And even if you do accept that he was a businessman, a genius who ran a company, what's he done since he retired in 1999?

He ran the Olympics and then was a governor for 4 years. This is what Republicans look at.. Did he suck at running the Olympics? In a financial way yes but they don't see that. Did he invent Obamacare while governor of MA? Indeed he did but that doesn't matter. Did Bain Capital do all kinds of sneaky shiat? Of course they did but capitalism is capitalism and it doesn't matter because he hasn't run the company since 1999. The years of 1978-1999 have no bearing on who he is today and what he stands for today.

wut?

Not sure if serious... Did you really not know that we in Mass. have been living under "Obamacare" (though, we called it "Romneycare") since 2006? So-called Obamacare was based on Romneycare, and ends up being pretty much identical...


You think Romney "invented" that idea in 2006?
 
2012-10-15 06:08:45 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Here are the FACTS:

Romney is a venture capitalist. He was able to capitalize on the business environment and took advantage of opportunities that avails themselves through shrewed dealings and savvy manipulation of business loopholes. Illegal? NO.. Morally questionable? perhaps. but he/Bain was successful at that.

Nothing more nothing less.

Some of his voters have no problem with it.. many others really don;t know what that means and just loosely calls him a successful businessman.


Bain Capital was/is a private equity fund specializing in purchasing and selling established (often distressed) companies.

"Venture capital (VC) is financial capital provided to early-stage, high-potential, high risk, growth startup companies."

Bain Capital was not a VC fund.
 
2012-10-15 06:13:53 PM

Moopy Mac: SuperNinjaToad: Here are the FACTS:

Romney is a venture capitalist. He was able to capitalize on the business environment and took advantage of opportunities that avails themselves through shrewed dealings and savvy manipulation of business loopholes. Illegal? NO.. Morally questionable? perhaps. but he/Bain was successful at that.

Nothing more nothing less.

Some of his voters have no problem with it.. many others really don;t know what that means and just loosely calls him a successful businessman.

Bain Capital was/is a private equity fund specializing in purchasing and selling established (often distressed) companies.

"Venture capital (VC) is financial capital provided to early-stage, high-potential, high risk, growth startup companies."

Bain Capital was not a VC fund.


I guess I should add a little more detail.

Bain initially invested strongly in VC. Romney maneuvered it out of that area into the world of leveraged acquisition. Criticism of his business practices are not on the VC side, but rather the leverage acquisition side of Bain.
 
2012-10-15 06:14:44 PM
liar and a rapist.

and an insult to the people of the LDS faith.

but hey, you think you are going to find an honest politician that gives a damn about regular people and lives up to their campaign promises?
 
2012-10-15 06:15:43 PM

Moopy Mac: You think Romney "invented" that idea in 2006?


No, he stole it from the conservative Heritage Foundation... But, he was the first one to get it implemented anywhere, so he gets the credit, right or wrong...

It's amazing that Republicans suddenly decided they didn't like the idea as soon as a Democrat decided to adopt it...
 
2012-10-15 06:18:37 PM

Moopy Mac: You think Romney "invented" that idea in 2006?


For the record, in case certain parties here don't know.

The "individual mandate" style healthcare reform that's the heart of Romneycare/Obamacare was first proposed in 1989 by The Heritage Institute, a highly conservative think tank.

Circa 1994, when Hillary Clinton was trying to push for single-payer healthcare reform in the US, this system was proposed as the Republican counterpart. Republicans wouldn't support single payer, too socialist. Democrats wouldn't support Individual Mandate, too corporate welfare, not sweeping enough change. So, nothing happened.

This system was the Republican healthcare reform plan, proposed but never enacted, for a decade or more before Romney got it passed in Massachusetts. That uber-liberal state went for it largely out of desperation for ANY healthcare reform, even if it was highly imperfect.

For 20 years before Obamacare was passed it was a conservative/Republican idea. Only when a Democrat POTUS proposed it, trying to compromise and desperately wanting any kind of healthcare reform, willing to agree to the Republican version just to make something happen. . .suddenly they do a complete about face and the exact same plan they'd backed for two decades was now socialist, communist, Marxist, the end of freedom, oppression, ect.

So, to ANYBODY who says that the Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare, aka Romnecare) is socialist/communist or anything else bad, were you badmouthing it before January 2009 or did you only care when a black Democrat President suggested it?
 
2012-10-15 06:45:18 PM

Supahl33t: Yes, having lawyers for president has worked out so wall for us in the past.


This is way down the thread and everyone knows you are an idiot, but here are some more presidential lawyer:

I'm not going to list the massive number of US presidents ranging from Jefferson, Madison, and Lincoln to Andrew Jackson, Clinton, and FDR.

I'll list all of the presidents that WEREN'T lawyers:
George Washington
William Harrison
Zachary Taylor
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses Grant

James Garfield
Teddy Roosevelt
Warren Harding
Herbert Hoover
Harry Truman
Dwight Eisenhower
John F Kennedy
Lyndon Johnson
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
George HW Bush
George W Bush

Only 17/44 weren't lawyers - including five of the WORST presidents (in bold)
 
2012-10-15 07:44:36 PM
That's nothing, have you heard about Big Bird, yet?
 
2012-10-15 07:58:11 PM

FlashHarry: Myth Romney

everything is lies


Myths have value. Herakles smash. Samson breaks down the walls.
 
2012-10-15 08:26:35 PM

bornyesterday: NewsWeek is not a source to be trusted for news


You mean Stockman, Reagan's budget director, didn't write all of those things?
Damn. He should sue.
 
2012-10-15 08:53:10 PM
So Reagan started it and people like Mitt took it to it's natural conclusion, so he's bad? No, they're both bad. Screw Reagan, Romney and David Stockman. He sounds jealous.
 
2012-10-15 08:58:06 PM

Grungehamster: I think "Romney is an evil man with ill intent" is a silly argument to make, I think he believes his administration will be what's best for America, but he also probably thought what he did at Bain was best for America since it strengthened the financial standing of the smartest guys in the room.


"the smartest guys in the room"?

So many jokes, so little time.
 
2012-10-15 09:06:55 PM

propasaurus: SkunkWerks: Sofa King Smart: Oh, you want an 'extreme conservative'.. I'm an extreme conservative! You want pro-life... I'm very pro-life...(except for the years that I was very pro-choice...)

While I'm not fond of Mitt Romney, this pretty much describes every politician ever.

People keep saying he "stands for nothing" as if most politicians don't determine their next move by licking their finger and raising it to the wind. A more accurate representation might be seen as a difference of degrees, maybe. I've got an issue with detractors who continuously harp on his "chameleon" approach to politics as if he's cornered the marketshare on it.

So both sides are bad, you say? What a unique perspective.


Shake that Etch-a-Sketch!
 
2012-10-15 09:19:29 PM

Bigdogdaddy: So Reagan started it and people like Mitt took it to it's natural conclusion, so he's bad? No, they're both bad. Screw Reagan, Romney and David Stockman. He sounds jealous.


==============

Actually, Nixon started it with the the GOP's "Southern Strategy". At first, it was a smart move. Get all the rubes, hillbillies, Klansmen, Christian Taliban etc to help vote you into office.....since corporations can't vote...yet. Once in office, cater to the corporations, Wall St and bankers......the true GOP base.....and throw a bone to the rednecks who voted you into office.....usually some crap guaranteeing access to guns and cousin marriage. Unfortunately, to get enough votes to win, the GOP has been forced recently to pander to ever more extreme elements......gold bugs, black helicopter watchers, Christian Sharia types, conspiracy freaks, etc.....people formally known as the "lunatic fringe". The corporate criminals are now getting a bit frightened. Some are wondering if they have unleashed a Frankenstein, a monster that may set the entire enterprise on fire. That's why you are seeing the backpedaling by more sensible GOP types.
 
2012-10-15 09:34:28 PM

MacWizard: Grungehamster: I think "Romney is an evil man with ill intent" is a silly argument to make, I think he believes his administration will be what's best for America, but he also probably thought what he did at Bain was best for America since it strengthened the financial standing of the smartest guys in the room.

"the smartest guys in the room"?

So many jokes, so little time.


I'm not sure if you we're on the same side of this or not; I was referencing the title of a non-fiction book/documentary on Enron. The idea is that these people who have participated in these sort of market manipulation see themselves as earning the money because they were able to lobby for and then use methods of creating gains and losses on paper as needed to maximize their profits and minimize their obligations.

They see themselves as geniuses for being able to game the system, and they justify the severe inequality these policies allow for by saying that they are more enlightened and know how to properly spend it than the plebs who would get the money otherwise and waste it. Hell, some of them say that the government should let them determine their own tax rates, because they know what deserves the most money for good of the public better than any public servant does.

My point was that I don't think these people are evil; it's really stupid to think that. They just have these delusions that they are such elites that they can justify their self-image as job creators who earned every penny they made by pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
 
2012-10-15 09:49:05 PM

Supahl33t: Karma Curmudgeon: Supahl33t: I'll take Lincoln over Woodrow "Let the KKK in the White House" Wilson any day.

And yet Wilson wasn't a lawyer but Lincoln was.

So, you don't really have a point, do you? Combined with this post, now I'm thinking you actually didn't try to make one, but instead are playing $10,000 Pyramid with us and the category is "Things Glen Beck might say".

My bad, we haven't had Democrat lawyers try to run the country.

Democratic and Republican Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates since 1980, and let's seehow many lawyers there were:

[Democratic] Attorneys (10 out of 12 total - 83%)
Obama
Biden
Kerry
Edwards
Lieberman
Clinton
Dukakis
Bentsen
Mondale
Ferarro
[Possibly Gore, who never graduated - if he's included, the percentage is 92%]
Carter was the only non-lawyer, non-law school attendee.

[Republican] Attorneys (2 out of 9 total - 22%)
Dole
Quayle

Non-lawyers - McCain, Palin, Bush 43, Cheney, Kemp, Bush 41 and Reagan

Keep on grasping there you twit.


So what you're saying is lawyers support ending wars and non-lawyers support escalating them?
 
2012-10-15 10:14:15 PM

bin_smokin: Mitt Romney = Richard Gere in Pretty Woman.

This is a pretty fair description of how he made his money


Yes. But unlike Richard Gere, Romney never had an attack of conscience when closing a deal.
 
2012-10-15 10:32:58 PM

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: bin_smokin: Mitt Romney = Richard Gere in Pretty Woman.

This is a pretty fair description of how he made his money

Yes. But unlike Richard Gere, Romney never had an attack of conscience when closing a deal.


Ann is no Julia Roberts.
 
2012-10-15 10:43:48 PM

geniusiknowit: Empiricism cannot serve as the basis for economic understand.


*:-|*

Did you really just type that?

/wow
 
2012-10-15 10:49:17 PM

propasaurus: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: bin_smokin: Mitt Romney = Richard Gere in Pretty Woman.

This is a pretty fair description of how he made his money

Yes. But unlike Richard Gere, Romney never had an attack of conscience when closing a deal.

Ann is no Julia Roberts.


Don't forget that Julia Roberts was only 21 when "Pretty Woman" was being filmed. Ann was pretty cute too, back in the day:

images2.dailykos.com
 
2012-10-15 11:22:33 PM

Karma Curmudgeon: Supahl33t: My bad, we haven't had Democrat lawyers try to run the country.

Democratic and Republican Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates since 1980, and let's seehow many lawyers there were:

[Democratic] Attorneys (10 out of 12 total - 83%)
Obama
Biden
Kerry
Edwards
Lieberman
Clinton
Dukakis
Bentsen
Mondale
Ferarro
[Possibly Gore, who never graduated - if he's included, the percentage is 92%]
Carter was the only non-lawyer, non-law school attendee.

[Republican] Attorneys (2 out of 9 total - 22%)
Dole
Quayle

Non-lawyers - McCain, Palin, Bush 43, Cheney, Kemp, Bush 41 and Reagan

Keep on grasping there you twit.

Percentage of Democratic lawyers presidenting us into a financial collapse - 0%

Percentage of Republican MBA's presidenting us into a financial collapse - 100%

Also, Romney has his juris doctorate as well as his MBA, so I put the probability that he will president us into a financial collapse at 204%. QED.


Also, I'm seeing Politician, failed Politician, Politician/failed businessman, Politician/successful businessman, Politician/Football player, Politician, Former Union President/Actor/Politician.
 
2012-10-15 11:51:14 PM
You didn't build that!
 
2012-10-15 11:52:11 PM

Supahl33t: Democrat lawyers


DRINK!
 
2012-10-16 12:01:11 AM

Lee Jackson Beauregard: You didn't build that!


I know of no businessmen that provided their startup with their own police, fire department, water supply, highway system, etc.
 
2012-10-16 02:18:19 AM

SkunkWerks: propasaurus: So both sides are bad, you say?

No. I say that If you want to apply what you feel is a pointed criticism to the matter of why Romney is bad, it's probably best to choose one that isn't true of about 99.99999% of people in the same profession. Or at the very least, you might point out how his adherence to it is in some way significantly different.

It tends to get down to brass tacks a hell of a lot faster.


False equivalence. 'That guy is a war criminal.' 'Yeah? Well, that guy's a jaywalker! They're BOTH criminals!'
 
2012-10-16 04:07:45 AM

geniusiknowit: Economics should not deal in empiricism.


So then, why do you care about printing money or any other such thing?
 
2012-10-16 10:53:14 AM

gameshowhost: Did you really just type that?

/wow


It seems incredulity the best you can muster.

WhyteRaven74: So then, why do you care about printing money or any other such thing?


Not using empiricism as the foundation for understanding economics does not mean throwing out empirical evidence altogether.
 
2012-10-16 12:51:35 PM

Cpl.D: Just a point of advice from a "liberal" Republican: Challenge the guy's facts, if you can. Don't make the guy or his life your target, it looks desperate and doesn't tend to convince people.


The headline here is all "says . . former budget director for Ronald Reagan", and you want to pretend the point was Stockman's facts, not his resume?

Stockman's whole pile of shiat here boils down to, "Babe Ruth wasn't a great player. He played baseball instead of football, most of the time he got an out instead of a hit, and most of his hits were singles." And yes, when you quote the numbers, you will prove, in fact, that Babe Ruth had a batting average under .500, and most of his hits were indeed singles, and he indeed didn't play football. So we must conclude Babe Ruth wasn't a great player, right?
 
2012-10-16 01:13:26 PM

SkunkWerks: Karma Curmudgeon: Percentage of Democratic lawyers presidenting us into a financial collapse - 0%

Barney Frank wasn't a lawyer? I mean, I suppose he wasn't a president, but a lawyer? Yes. Very yes.


Why this focus on people's professions before public service?

Like. Really. What the fark is the point you people are trying to make? We should stop nominating lawyers or MBAs to office? I am struggling to see what it is you are seeing. Lincoln was a lawyer. Coolidge was a lawyer. Meanwhile, HERBERT FARKING HOOVER was a MINING ENGINEER. Grant was a soldier.Rutherford B Hayes was a lifer. Leaving city politics to join the military and further his political career. He was also a professional beard-owner. Taft wasn't just a lawyer but a judge. Teddy was a firefighter, militia-man, sheriff, historian, and rancher.

These points are interesting, but have next to no common bearing on the quality of the president.

So again, I ask, what in the flying fark are you people arguing about?
 
2012-10-16 02:25:24 PM

geniusiknowit: gameshowhost: Did you really just type that?

/wow

It seems incredulity the best you can muster.


My reaction to your claim that economics - a social science - shouldn't be empirical (despite the fact that social sciences are empirical) was quite worthy of incredulity, if not dismissive laughter.
 
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