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(USA Today)   Add USAToday to the conspiracy theorists who don't think the September jobs numbers add up   (usatoday.com) divider line 97
    More: Interesting, conspiracy theories, job fair, national emergency  
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7921 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2012 at 8:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-15 08:32:05 AM
"James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.
 
2012-10-15 08:32:12 AM
What, you think they'd deliberately misconstrue the numbers just before an election? No way man...
 
2012-10-15 08:32:55 AM
USA today thinks the opposite, this is a counterpoint to their editorial which calls people who doubt the numbers "cuckoos"
 
2012-10-15 08:33:17 AM
Everybody who does not have a job or has a crappy job, please raise your hands.
 
2012-10-15 08:33:27 AM
Columnist from the American Enterprise Institute.
 
2012-10-15 08:34:04 AM
If I can just make up numbers, I can make it sound as bad as I like!
 
2012-10-15 08:34:33 AM
Come on, if you want to take a random conspiracy theory and go full retard with it, at least choose an interesting one. Truthers, birthers, moon landing hoaxers, Holocaust deniers and so on might all be dumb as shiat, but at least they're amusing; this is just boring.
 
2012-10-15 08:34:51 AM
They don't care what the numbers are. They are reflexively opposed to anything this President does.

Whatever it is....
 
2012-10-15 08:36:42 AM

Lershac: USA today thinks the opposite, this is a counterpoint to their editorial which calls people who doubt the numbers "cuckoos"


And the counterpoint proves that USA Today is right.

/Jane, you ignorant slut
 
2012-10-15 08:38:23 AM
When I'm king, I'm going to ban think tanks. Also, the term think tanks.
 
2012-10-15 08:39:58 AM
Recently all of the regular employees at the fast food joints and gas stations around here left and were replaced by ones who speak and understand english.

A quiet INS crackdown forcing businesses to fire illegals would easily explain the number increase, and if credit for that can be laid at Obama's feet, I thank him. WIsh he had pushed this earlier, but... Good job!
 
2012-10-15 08:40:10 AM
"It's impossible! It's only happened nine times before!"
 
2012-10-15 08:40:44 AM

LDM90: When I'm king, I'm going to ban think tanks. Also, the term think tanks.


I think tanks are awesome
 
2012-10-15 08:40:47 AM
Wow, submitter. That's uh... really something.
 
2012-10-15 08:40:52 AM
Most of the stories I've read have been about people who have jobs- just not the ones they like or pay much. But isn't that still a job? I've never had a dream job making a ton of money- and that's my fault, not the gov't. If I had moved to another city, I could have. If you can't get your dream job, join the 95% of the world.
 
2012-10-15 08:41:24 AM
Headline = "Add USA Today..."

Article = Opinion Tab

Subby = Fail
 
2012-10-15 08:43:58 AM
Clearly this is vindication of Alex Jones and his lizard people theory
 
2012-10-15 08:44:08 AM
I agree that the unemployment numbers are skewed by the change made in 1994 that decided if you were discouraged for more than 12 months you were no longer part of the unemployed. The U-6 number is a far more accurate reflection of the total employment picture. That said, biatching about a measure that's been used for eighteen years because you don't like what it says in the month before the election is Grade A 100% bullshiat. Does anyone think these same people will be complaining about the inaccuracy of the unemployment number after January if Romney wins?
 
2012-10-15 08:46:04 AM
The media needs to use a more realistic approach to illustrate job loss. The most confounding idea is the recent "jobs created" myth which cannot be quantified by any means.
 
2012-10-15 08:46:15 AM

Sybarite: I agree that the unemployment numbers are skewed by the change made in 1994 that decided if you were discouraged for more than 12 months you were no longer part of the unemployed. The U-6 number is a far more accurate reflection of the total employment picture. That said, biatching about a measure that's been used for eighteen years because you don't like what it says in the month before the election is Grade A 100% bullshiat. Does anyone think these same people will be complaining about the inaccuracy of the unemployment number after January if Romney wins?


Uh, yea. They'll say they're much too high.
 
2012-10-15 08:47:02 AM
Excellent troll headline, unfortunately the mouth breathers (on both sides) aren't up til about noon so you're not likely to get too many bites, it'll mostly be the humorless automatons pointing out that its an opinion piece by a partisan hack tank.

Got a few though, good on you..
 
2012-10-15 08:48:07 AM
Just because they lied about the last 22 jobless reports isn't a reason to doubt this report.
 
2012-10-15 08:52:43 AM

PawisBetlog: humorless automatons


How is it that main page posters are so consistently bad
 
2012-10-15 08:58:10 AM
FTA The U.S. lost 9 million private-sector jobs during the Great Recession. Just 5 million have been recovered. Even worse, the level of private-sector jobs remains 13 million below the pre-crisis job growth trend. That's the true jobs gap, and it isn't closing.


Don't count on Romney or Obama causing that jobs gap to go away anytime soon and it's a very simple reason as to why. For those of us that have survived all the various layoff and downsizing what was the first thing that happen when your coworkers were pinked slipped, you job duties doubled, and/or you had to work more hours. Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back. And even now that, despite what the right-wing blog sphere says, the economy is turning around employers are only hiring part time because it's still cheaper to hire two part-timers then one full timer.

This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.
 
2012-10-15 08:58:30 AM

bborchar: If you can't get your dream job, join the 95% of the world.


I think "dream job" is a rare thing. For most people, jobs are something you do and get moderately good at so you can have some pride in it.

If I were going to reform jobs, I'd make participation shorter, and make more responsibility fall on each worker, as well as requiring skills for just about anything. The emphasis should be less on "being there" and more on showing up, working efficiently, and then going home to have a life.

In particular, we should stop jobs which treat people as interchangeable parts and reward participation more than results, so that if you stay 10-12 hours instead of 8 you get promoted, even if you did nothing important.

Treat people like people instead of zombie slaves and you get better results.
 
2012-10-15 08:58:41 AM
clearly a data point that follows a trend is an outlier and evidence of numbers fixing.

That is how numbers fixing works, right?

/derp
 
2012-10-15 09:05:12 AM

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


An editorial is something a PATRIOT writes to get out the TRUTH.

Study it out.

/No, not serious
//If you can't beat em, join em
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-15 09:10:43 AM

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


I think it's funny how people on the right think that articles are written by a newspaper or magazine or whatever and not by an author. i think the reason is that they aren't familiar with news sites that offer a variety of different opinions from authors who are free to write their own opinions.

They are accustomed to right wing sites that ate all spin all the time, so when a real news magazine publishes a right wing opinion piece they think it is the paper itself endorsing or "admitting" that the columnist is right.
 
2012-10-15 09:18:55 AM

dennysgod: This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.


WTOP this morning quoted an economist (maybe an economic institute's report?) that says they don't expect unemployment to drop below 7.8% next year regardless of who wins. They predict GDP grows sub-2% as well.

Unemployment (recovery - the jobs get lost when they get lost) lags behind probably 12-18 months.
 
2012-10-15 09:20:55 AM
Headline: Add USAToday to the conspiracy theorists who don't think the September jobs numbers add up

The USAToday Editorial Board: Lower Unemployment Rate Inspires Cuckoos
 
2012-10-15 09:41:49 AM
Just Fartbongo cookin' da books, trying desperately to get re-elected. Move on, nothing to see here........
 
2012-10-15 09:46:38 AM

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


I don't get your point.
 
2012-10-15 09:47:28 AM

Hoarseman: Columnist from the American Enterprise Institute.


Your point?
 
2012-10-15 09:55:32 AM

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


And his only source is a "perma-bear" who works at a Canadian investment firm that doesn't want you to get your poor stink on them if you don't have $3,000,000 to spare.
 
2012-10-15 10:03:32 AM
FTFA: "I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but I don't believe in the household survey either."

Correction: "I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but I don't believe in the household survey either, unless it supports my belief."
 
2012-10-15 10:05:08 AM
James Pethokoukis, columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, thinks Mitt Romney's tax plan adds up but the September job numbers don't.

Alrighty then.
 
2012-10-15 10:05:15 AM

Mager: Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


This. It was the first thing I noticed. Third party editorials =/= the views of USA Today.
 
2012-10-15 10:05:44 AM
the gov't is constantly changing the way jobs added/jobs lost is measured. Our true unemployment is much higher than the gov't reported number. It is purely a measure for propaganda.
 
2012-10-15 10:06:18 AM

dennysgod: Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back.


That's true. This is why raising costs through regulation and state-funded healthcare was probably not the best move.
 
2012-10-15 10:06:40 AM

Deep Contact: Everybody who does not have a job or has a crappy job, please raise your hands.


"Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called everybody, and they meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey
 
2012-10-15 10:07:22 AM

bborchar: Most of the stories I've read have been about people who have jobs- just not the ones they like or pay much. But isn't that still a job? I've never had a dream job making a ton of money- and that's my fault, not the gov't. If I had moved to another city, I could have. If you can't get your dream job, join the 95% of the world.


One of the problems in getting a crappy job is that you can get in a death spiral for UI benefits. I'm an accountant by trade, at the Controller / Accounting Manager level. It's tough getting a job because:
1) there is generally only one of those jobs per company, and a lot of companies that were around 4 years ago are gone.
2) applying for a lesser position, such as a Staff Accountant, creates fear in the interviewer that I will leave as soon as I find a better job.

The EDD requires that I only look for work in my field, so I don't have to accept a job somewhere as a cashier, or whatnot (assuming I could get hired; got turned down for a cashier job at a Jack in the Box because I didn't speak Spanish and had to interface with 4 other employees who only spoke Spanish; but that's another story).

But not getting that job was a good thing, in a way. If I'd been accepted in a $10 cashier, it would have reduced future UI benefits, since UI is based on how much you earn during the base period.

Since my last temp agency job lasted 2 months and paid quite well, I'm currently near the max, at $412 per week. I know a homeless guy who was a draftsman at an architect firm. He was making decent money when he got laid off 3+ years ago, so his UI was maxed at $450/week. He was dumb enough to accept lower-salary jobs outside his area and was eventually getting $97/week UI. Death spiral.

Now even the max of $450/week is not enough for rent/food/gas/etc/etc/etc on a sustained basis in So Cal, so you get rid of the biggest ticket, the rent, and start living in your camper or whatnot, But $97/week is bullshiat. Even with buy1get1free coupons, a fast food meal at a Carls will run $3-$4 bucks.
 
2012-10-15 10:09:04 AM

spelletrader: Headline = "Add USA Today..."

Article = Opinion Tab

Subby = Fail


Thanks. I was going to point that out, but didn't want to be branded as a ZOMFG!RacistFascistRethuglicanObamaHater.
 
2012-10-15 10:13:54 AM

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


Exactly. The AEI is an ultra-right wing "think tank" that gets no credence from anyone. They are also taking the position that Mitt Romney is correct about public school choice and that Obama's is a path to communism. This is actually one of the only points the two men agree on.
 
2012-10-15 10:14:06 AM
Group charged with publishing anti-Obama propoganda publishes anti-Obama propoganda. News at 11
 
2012-10-15 10:18:14 AM

Aeon Rising: Recently all of the regular employees at the fast food joints and gas stations around here left and were replaced by ones who speak and understand english.

A quiet INS crackdown forcing businesses to fire illegals would easily explain the number increase, and if credit for that can be laid at Obama's feet, I thank him. WIsh he had pushed this earlier, but... Good job!


Yeah, tell me about it. There's a Jack in the Box around here where at least 4 employees speak only Spanish. Hmmmmmm...... Any faint chance they are illegals?

Poorer citizens should be pissed off about the flood of (ahem) undocumented workers for these reasons:

1) they accept jobs under the table for cash and throw minimum wage citizens out of work.

2) they drive up the cost of even crappy apartments by increasing the demand for housing.

3) most of them live very sparsely and send a large amount of the money they make back to family in their own country. This drives down demand for consumer goods, relative to money spent by businesses for labor costs, and contributes to keeping the economy tanked. The poor, of course and as always, get in worse in the shorts than the more well-to-do.

/Patiently waiting for the howls of Racist! from the usual suspects.
 
2012-10-15 10:21:29 AM

dennysgod: FTA The U.S. lost 9 million private-sector jobs during the Great Recession. Just 5 million have been recovered. Even worse, the level of private-sector jobs remains 13 million below the pre-crisis job growth trend. That's the true jobs gap, and it isn't closing.


Don't count on Romney or Obama causing that jobs gap to go away anytime soon and it's a very simple reason as to why. For those of us that have survived all the various layoff and downsizing what was the first thing that happen when your coworkers were pinked slipped, you job duties doubled, and/or you had to work more hours. Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back. And even now that, despite what the right-wing blog sphere says, the economy is turning around employers are only hiring part time because it's still cheaper to hire two part-timers then one full timer.

This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.


You have it exact right in all respects. It is frustrating that liberals/progressives cannot see these simple facts. It is so simple and so obvious.
 
2012-10-15 10:27:35 AM
The jobs numbers have been complete fiction for a long time. Why are people ready to believe this set?
 
2012-10-15 10:27:44 AM
Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.
 
2012-10-15 10:29:41 AM

sodomizer: bborchar: If you can't get your dream job, join the 95% of the world.

I think "dream job" is a rare thing. For most people, jobs are something you do and get moderately good at so you can have some pride in it.

If I were going to reform jobs, I'd make participation shorter, and make more responsibility fall on each worker, as well as requiring skills for just about anything. The emphasis should be less on "being there" and more on showing up, working efficiently, and then going home to have a life.

In particular, we should stop jobs which treat people as interchangeable parts and reward participation more than results, so that if you stay 10-12 hours instead of 8 you get promoted, even if you did nothing important.

Treat people like people instead of zombie slaves and you get better results.


Good points. Society is going to be another crisis in a few years, and that is humanoid robots (who don't have to receive benefits and will work 24/7) replacing people in many types of jobs. We need to start adjusting for that now.

Start by reducing the legal work week w/ no overtime from 40 to 39 hours. Each year adjust it down by 1 hour. (This gradual adjustment is so businesses can adjust and not cause a huge spike in product prices.) I would think that an eventual 32-35 hour work week would help soak up a lot of excess labor.

What to do with the extra time available? Another issue.
 
2012-10-15 10:31:15 AM

vpb: Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.

I think it's funny how people on the right think that articles are written by a newspaper or magazine or whatever and not by an author. i think the reason is that they aren't familiar with news sites that offer a variety of different opinions from authors who are free to write their own opinions.

They are accustomed to right wing sites that ate all spin all the time, so when a real news magazine publishes a right wing opinion piece they think it is the paper itself endorsing or "admitting" that the columnist is right.


Well... no.
 
2012-10-15 10:46:11 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: spelletrader: Headline = "Add USA Today..."

Article = Opinion Tab

Subby = Fail

Thanks. I was going to point that out, but didn't want to be branded as a ZOMFG!RacistFascistRethuglicanObamaHater.


In the eyes of the extreme partisan even a logical observation is seen as an attack on their ideologies.

Of course Fark headlines are all about hyperbole and misdirection, so...

I am confused by some of your replies in the thread though as you appear to be agreeing with the left leaning posters and yet you are deriding the left at the same time.

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Aeon Rising: Recently all of the regular employees at the fast food joints and gas stations around here left and were replaced by ones who speak and understand english.

A quiet INS crackdown forcing businesses to fire illegals would easily explain the number increase, and if credit for that can be laid at Obama's feet, I thank him. WIsh he had pushed this earlier, but... Good job!

Yeah, tell me about it. There's a Jack in the Box around here where at least 4 employees speak only Spanish. Hmmmmmm...... Any faint chance they are illegals?

Poorer citizens should be pissed off about the flood of (ahem) undocumented workers for these reasons:

1) they accept jobs under the table for cash and throw minimum wage citizens out of work.

2) they drive up the cost of even crappy apartments by increasing the demand for housing.

3) most of them live very sparsely and send a large amount of the money they make back to family in their own country. This drives down demand for consumer goods, relative to money spent by businesses for labor costs, and contributes to keeping the economy tanked. The poor, of course and as always, get in worse in the shorts than the more well-to-do.

/Patiently waiting for the howls of Racist! from the usual suspects.


And I'm not a usual suspect, but I have to say that your views are surely racist.
 
2012-10-15 10:46:52 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: dennysgod: FTA The U.S. lost 9 million private-sector jobs during the Great Recession. Just 5 million have been recovered. Even worse, the level of private-sector jobs remains 13 million below the pre-crisis job growth trend. That's the true jobs gap, and it isn't closing.


Don't count on Romney or Obama causing that jobs gap to go away anytime soon and it's a very simple reason as to why. For those of us that have survived all the various layoff and downsizing what was the first thing that happen when your coworkers were pinked slipped, you job duties doubled, and/or you had to work more hours. Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back. And even now that, despite what the right-wing blog sphere says, the economy is turning around employers are only hiring part time because it's still cheaper to hire two part-timers then one full timer.

This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.

You have it exact right in all respects. It is frustrating that liberals/progressives cannot see these simple facts. It is so simple and so obvious.


Good points, but we're back to the same problems.

If things are as you say they are, then raising taxes wouldn't particularly do anything for the amount of debt we are carrying, and there's even an open question whether it would even result in a modest increase in income for the government--let's say it did--it would barely put a dent in the deficit spending we have in place right now. To make matters worse, Obama wants to increase the deficit further in hopes that the investment will pan out in something that is revenue positive--something that is in no way guaranteed and based on past results over nearly 4 years, is unlikely to happen. To those who would say, "well we didn't do enough that's why!" I would suggest that if you think you're going to get some sort of "New New Deal" out of the coming Congress, you are smoking crack. No, at best you are going to get a few infrastructure projects through and that's about it.

Looking at the next 4 years of an Obama Presidency, I see a nation that will be lesser for it. I wish that weren't true, but looking big picture, it will be a frustrating 4 years with Left wingers and Progressives left rooting for Conservative members of the Supreme Court to die in office so they can conduct a judicial jihad and at least get something accomplished. We continue to slouch toward mediocrity, not by design, but by lack of deeds.

Will Romney take the grass grow greener, all our children have perfect teeth, and the deficit and subsequently our indebtedness as a nation magically go away? No. Actually he will face many of the same challenges that Obama does trying to get through a meaningful agenda through a Congress that day-by-day is slowly proving that semi-legendary political adage that a people who figure out that they can vote themselves money have doomed democracy. Romney isn't the last stand of American democracy--he does represent however the possibility of a change of direction for the better. I want to believe that we aren't doomed to become something lesser than we are.
 
2012-10-15 10:58:45 AM

Deathfrogg: They don't care what the numbers are. They are reflexively opposed to anything this President does.

Whatever it is....

i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-15 11:02:46 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: 3) most of them live very sparsely and send a large amount of the money they make back to family in their own country.


LOL I just love phrases like 'most of them'. We've got an immigration expert here.
 
2012-10-15 11:29:17 AM
It's not a conspiracy if it's true
 
2012-10-15 11:34:10 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: dennysgod: FTA The U.S. lost 9 million private-sector jobs during the Great Recession. Just 5 million have been recovered. Even worse, the level of private-sector jobs remains 13 million below the pre-crisis job growth trend. That's the true jobs gap, and it isn't closing.


Don't count on Romney or Obama causing that jobs gap to go away anytime soon and it's a very simple reason as to why. For those of us that have survived all the various layoff and downsizing what was the first thing that happen when your coworkers were pinked slipped, you job duties doubled, and/or you had to work more hours. Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back. And even now that, despite what the right-wing blog sphere says, the economy is turning around employers are only hiring part time because it's still cheaper to hire two part-timers then one full timer.

This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.

You have it exact right in all respects. It is frustrating that liberals/progressives cannot see these simple facts. It is so simple and so obvious.


So it's liberals that think wealth will trickle down?

That's farking superb right there.
 
2012-10-15 11:38:54 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Aeon Rising: Recently all of the regular employees at the fast food joints and gas stations around here left and were replaced by ones who speak and understand english.

A quiet INS crackdown forcing businesses to fire illegals would easily explain the number increase, and if credit for that can be laid at Obama's feet, I thank him. WIsh he had pushed this earlier, but... Good job!

Yeah, tell me about it. There's a Jack in the Box around here where at least 4 employees speak only Spanish. Hmmmmmm...... Any faint chance they are illegals?

Poorer citizens should be pissed off about the flood of (ahem) undocumented workers for these reasons:

1) they accept jobs under the table for cash and throw minimum wage citizens out of work.

2) they drive up the cost of even crappy apartments by increasing the demand for housing.

3) most of them live very sparsely and send a large amount of the money they make back to family in their own country. This drives down demand for consumer goods, relative to money spent by businesses for labor costs, and contributes to keeping the economy tanked. The poor, of course and as always, get in worse in the shorts than the more well-to-do.

/Patiently waiting for the howls of Racist! from the usual suspects.


That's really all I needed. Yes, you probably are a racist.
 
2012-10-15 11:44:54 AM

david_gaithersburg: Just because they lied about the last 22 jobless reports isn't a reason to doubt this report.


soakitincider: the gov't is constantly changing the way jobs added/jobs lost is measured. Our true unemployment is much higher than the gov't reported number. It is purely a measure for propaganda.


The Muthaship: The jobs numbers have been complete fiction for a long time. Why are people ready to believe this set?


lordaction: Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.


Clemkadidlefark: It's not a conspiracy if it's true


I don't suppose a single one of you has anything to back any of this up with? Would one of you care to add up the September jobs numbers for us?
 
2012-10-15 12:07:59 PM
The only people that believe it are Barry's softheaded faithful and they will believe just about anything.
 
2012-10-15 12:11:03 PM

babygoat: david_gaithersburg: Just because they lied about the last 22 jobless reports isn't a reason to doubt this report.

soakitincider: the gov't is constantly changing the way jobs added/jobs lost is measured. Our true unemployment is much higher than the gov't reported number. It is purely a measure for propaganda.

The Muthaship: The jobs numbers have been complete fiction for a long time. Why are people ready to believe this set?

lordaction: Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.

Clemkadidlefark: It's not a conspiracy if it's true

I don't suppose a single one of you has anything to back any of this up with? Would one of you care to add up the September jobs numbers for us?


This might be hard for you to understand since you are a liberal and are only used to making decisions based on emotions, but give it a shot and see if you can make one based of numbers.

Link
 
2012-10-15 12:15:23 PM

babygoat:

That's really all I needed. Yes, you probably are a racist.

Illegals isn't a racist term. It has a specific narrow definition that is not race specific. Should there be an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, they would also be illegals.

The more I read, the more it appears there was indeed a crackdown, it did lead to more jobs available to legals (even brown ones!, gasp!) it was asked for by Obama.

This is a good thing.
 
2012-10-15 12:15:58 PM
I'm pretty sure my anecdotal evidence trumps anything these "expert number crunchers" can come up with anyway.
 
2012-10-15 12:29:28 PM
USAToday, that bastion of conservative thinking. By the way, I've been on vacation, was this the job report in which California didn't even report in?
 
2012-10-15 12:31:38 PM
lordaction:
This might be hard for you to understand since you are a liberal and are only used to making decisions based on emotions, but give it a shot and see if you can make one based of numbers.

Link

Did the White House manipulate the unemployment figures or not?
 
2012-10-15 12:34:56 PM

Aeon Rising: babygoat:

That's really all I needed. Yes, you probably are a racist.
Illegals isn't a racist term. It has a specific narrow definition that is not race specific. Should there be an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, they would also be illegals.

The more I read, the more it appears there was indeed a crackdown, it did lead to more jobs available to legals (even brown ones!, gasp!) it was asked for by Obama.

This is a good thing.


Illegal also isn't a noun, and if you use it as one you probably are a racist. If there were an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, no one who uses the word illegals would care.
 
2012-10-15 12:37:55 PM

babygoat: lordaction:
This might be hard for you to understand since you are a liberal and are only used to making decisions based on emotions, but give it a shot and see if you can make one based of numbers.

Link

Did the White House manipulate the unemployment figures or not?


White House, behest of the White House, there is no way to know that without being a part of the conspiracy. But as the sign used to say in the Oval Office "The buck stops here". I do hear that Obama replaced it with one that says "It is Bush's Fault". Can't really expect a liberal to take responsibility for their own actions though, can we?
 
2012-10-15 12:44:24 PM

lordaction: babygoat: lordaction:
This might be hard for you to understand since you are a liberal and are only used to making decisions based on emotions, but give it a shot and see if you can make one based of numbers.

Link

Did the White House manipulate the unemployment figures or not?

White House, behest of the White House, there is no way to know that without being a part of the conspiracy. But as the sign used to say in the Oval Office "The buck stops here". I do hear that Obama replaced it with one that says "It is Bush's Fault". Can't really expect a liberal to take responsibility for their own actions though, can we?


Did the methodology for calculating the unemployment figure change between August and September?
 
2012-10-15 12:51:03 PM

babygoat: Aeon Rising: babygoat:

That's really all I needed. Yes, you probably are a racist.
Illegals isn't a racist term. It has a specific narrow definition that is not race specific. Should there be an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, they would also be illegals.

The more I read, the more it appears there was indeed a crackdown, it did lead to more jobs available to legals (even brown ones!, gasp!) it was asked for by Obama.

This is a good thing.

Illegal also isn't a noun, and if you use it as one you probably are a racist. If there were an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, no one who uses the word illegals would care.


That is straight up wrong. The English language is glorious in it's ability to add and change words.

And yea, would care. Students who come on a visa and then stay too long are also illegals. Mexicans who come across to work are illegals. British, Canadians, Chinese, any group you want to mention that comes in illegally are illegals and a problem.

It was a pain in the ass when we moved here, and other people can damn well show the same respect for our laws or Go The Fark Home.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-15 01:05:21 PM

lordaction: Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.


Wow, someone has been hitting the bath salts or something. So he is an Obama donor now? Is he a Muslim too?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-15 01:12:20 PM

babygoat: david_gaithersburg: Just because they lied about the last 22 jobless reports isn't a reason to doubt this report.

soakitincider: the gov't is constantly changing the way jobs added/jobs lost is measured. Our true unemployment is much higher than the gov't reported number. It is purely a measure for propaganda.

The Muthaship: The jobs numbers have been complete fiction for a long time. Why are people ready to believe this set?

lordaction: Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.

Clemkadidlefark: It's not a conspiracy if it's true

I don't suppose a single one of you has anything to back any of this up with? Would one of you care to add up the September jobs numbers for us?


Can't you see he's black?
 
2012-10-15 01:18:01 PM

lordaction: ...there is no way to know that without being a part of the conspiracy.


You know when your parents said you were special? They were wrong.
 
2012-10-15 01:36:47 PM

Aeon Rising: babygoat: Aeon Rising: babygoat:

That's really all I needed. Yes, you probably are a racist.
Illegals isn't a racist term. It has a specific narrow definition that is not race specific. Should there be an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, they would also be illegals.

The more I read, the more it appears there was indeed a crackdown, it did lead to more jobs available to legals (even brown ones!, gasp!) it was asked for by Obama.

This is a good thing.

Illegal also isn't a noun, and if you use it as one you probably are a racist. If there were an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, no one who uses the word illegals would care.

That is straight up wrong. The English language is glorious in it's ability to add and change words.

And yea, would care. Students who come on a visa and then stay too long are also illegals. Mexicans who come across to work are illegals. British, Canadians, Chinese, any group you want to mention that comes in illegally are illegals and a problem.

It was a pain in the ass when we moved here, and other people can damn well show the same respect for our laws or Go The Fark Home.


Yeah they could do one of those two things, or they can keep working and providing for their family and why the f%ck wouldn't they? On what planet is that not the most attractive option? I understand that it pisses you off but that doesn't factor into the decision at all. How about a realistic solution instead of calling them "illegals"?
 
2012-10-15 01:54:22 PM

babygoat: On what planet is that not the most attractive option? I understand that it pisses you off but that doesn't factor into the decision at all. How about a realistic solution instead of calling them "illegals"?


Ok, realistic solution. Work that hard to fix their own country, follow the established laws for immigration, and perhaps even show us American's how things are done by opening their borders the way they expect us to?

How about that? And finally lets stop pretending that these criminals are not breaking the law.
 
2012-10-15 02:01:44 PM

Aeon Rising: babygoat: On what planet is that not the most attractive option? I understand that it pisses you off but that doesn't factor into the decision at all. How about a realistic solution instead of calling them "illegals"?

Ok, realistic solution. Work that hard to fix their own country, follow the established laws for immigration, and perhaps even show us American's how things are done by opening their borders the way they expect us to?

How about that? And finally lets stop pretending that these criminals are not breaking the law.


Ok I'm all for it. How do we get there?
 
2012-10-15 03:07:42 PM
Let's assume that the September job numbers are legitimate and that Obama had something to do with it. We're talking about a man who had nearly four years to do SOMETHING to get the US economy back on its feet and hiring people and only now he has some piddling fraction of a percentage point to show for it? That's not what I consider a "good job".  That's like a juvenile delinquent expecting to be valedictorian because he somehow squeaked by with a D instead of an F this time.
 
2012-10-15 03:54:04 PM
Since we are not the worlds police, nation building does not work and we don't need to be buried in yet another nations problems we can:
1. Stop apologizing for illegals
2. Close the door, so they either come here legally
3. Let them figure out how to build their own countries or show enough respect for ours to come here legally.

Since every illegal ever is such a good hard law abiding working just taking care of their family and making the world a better place they should be able to turn around their various home countries with little trouble.
 
2012-10-15 04:05:18 PM

Aeon Rising: Since we are not the worlds police, nation building does not work and we don't need to be buried in yet another nations problems we can:
1. Stop apologizing for illegals
2. Close the door, so they either come here legally
3. Let them figure out how to build their own countries or show enough respect for ours to come here legally.

Since every illegal ever is such a good hard law abiding working just taking care of their family and making the world a better place they should be able to turn around their various home countries with little trouble.


1. Who's apologizing?
2. How? Are you going to pay for it?
3. Again, how the f%ck do you do it?

You suck at this.
 
2012-10-15 04:07:42 PM
Why is it so difficult for people to believe that things could possibly be getting better, even by a small fraction. Has everyone just given up?
 
2012-10-15 04:09:40 PM

Old enough to know better: Why is it so difficult for people to believe that things could possibly be getting better, even by a small fraction. Has everyone just given up?


Nope, just another example of the GOP rooting against America.
 
2012-10-15 04:35:44 PM

babygoat: 1. Who's apologizing?
2. How? Are you going to pay for it?
3. Again, how the f%ck do you do it?


1. A reference to pretending illegals are not illegals, attempts to reframe this as racism and pushes to be inclusive of illegals.
2. Yes, it's called taxes.
3. I don't do it. You don't do it. NATION BUILDING DOES NOT WORK. Let them fix their own damn problems. Getting all those hard workers back to their own countries is a great first step though. How can a country thrive when it's losing its best and brightest?
 
2012-10-15 04:44:08 PM

LaughingRadish: Let's assume that the September job numbers are legitimate and that Obama had something to do with it. We're talking about a man who had nearly four years to do SOMETHING to get the US economy back on its feet and hiring people and only now he has some piddling fraction of a percentage point to show for it? That's not what I consider a "good job".  That's like a juvenile delinquent expecting to be valedictorian because he somehow squeaked by with a D instead of an F this time.


You've apparently ignored the hundreds of charts showing unemployment was on it's way down when he took office and is now on the way back up. I'm betting you're also the type that cries about gas prices being twice what they were when Obama took office in '09 and forgetting that they were even higher than now in the summer of '08.
 
2012-10-15 05:34:43 PM

Aeon Rising: babygoat: 1. Who's apologizing?
2. How? Are you going to pay for it?
3. Again, how the f%ck do you do it?

1. A reference to pretending illegals are not illegals, attempts to reframe this as racism and pushes to be inclusive of illegals.
2. Yes, it's called taxes.
3. I don't do it. You don't do it. NATION BUILDING DOES NOT WORK. Let them fix their own damn problems. Getting all those hard workers back to their own countries is a great first step though. How can a country thrive when it's losing its best and brightest?


1. I'm sorry your life sucks and that you need to scapegoat people. The fact that you're probably racist doesn't affect the problem one way or the other.
2. F#ck you, you pay for it. It's a retarded idea.
3. The fact that you think you can find them and figure out where they came from and send them all home and pay for it with taxes just shows that you have no solution to the problem. You just want to biatch in a public forum. The problem with people like you is that you never wonder how illegal immigrants can find jobs when Americans can't.
4. So f#ck you.
 
2012-10-15 05:56:15 PM

Sybarite: I agree that the unemployment numbers are skewed by the change made in 1994 that decided if you were discouraged for more than 12 months you were no longer part of the unemployed. The U-6 number is a far more accurate reflection of the total employment picture. That said, biatching about a measure that's been used for eighteen years because you don't like what it says in the month before the election is Grade A 100% bullshiat. Does anyone think these same people will be complaining about the inaccuracy of the unemployment number after January if Romney wins?


I think what they're complaining about is the nearly magical drop below the oft discussed (because Obama quoted it) 8% line, the timing of the drop (right after he got his ass handed to him by Romney in the debate) and how the number of newly employed (according to the article, 900,000 more people employed versus new jobs created of 114,000) is so implausible as to be bordering on incredible (and "incredible" meaning "lacking in credibility").

They announce these figures and then a month or two later, restate them when the actual data comes in. I won't be the least bit surprised to hear that the September jobs numbers get adjusted way downward come November after the election. I mean really...900,000 in a single month? Why? What happened in the economy to prompt that when the number is actually lower than what was added in July (146,000) but then the rate didn't drop nearly this much?

I fully understand the math involved so it's not that. 146,000 new jobs produced a drop of .1 percent while114,000 new jobs produced a drop of .4 percent. That's...well..."incredible".
 
2012-10-15 06:08:51 PM
USAToday also said the Cardinals were destined for "one and done."
 
2012-10-15 06:29:12 PM

babygoat: 1. I'm sorry your life sucks and that you need to scapegoat people. The fact that you're probably racist doesn't affect the problem one way or the other.
2. F#ck you, you pay for it. It's a retarded idea.
3. The fact that you think you can find them and figure out where they came from and send them all home and pay for it with taxes just shows that you have no solution to the problem. You just want to biatch in a public forum. The problem with people like you is that you never wonder how illegal immigrants can find jobs when Americans can't.
4. So f#ck you.


1. Right. The quality of my life, nor insults you throw my way affect these things. Illegals are still illegals, and per your question the way to stop apologizing for them is to..... stop excusing, protecting and otherwise taking action to make the lives of illegals easier.
2. Ok, I will pay for it. I already do. With my taxes. Where do you think the INS gets its money? It is funny that you are doing the same :)
3. This point is about letting the good hardworking tax paying contributors do the work in their own country. I think you got confused for a second.
4. No thanks. Your hatred and vitriol make you unappealing to me.
 
2012-10-15 06:38:55 PM
So keep complaining about it and maybe someone will fix it for you.
 
2012-10-15 07:04:36 PM

babygoat: So keep complaining about it and maybe someone will fix it for you.


Good idea. How about we vote as well as let our leaders know that this needs to be fixed?
Do you honestly think that shutting down the mindless attacks against those who oppose illegals is excludes complaining to our representatives and how we vote?
 
2012-10-15 07:36:43 PM

trappedspirit: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: 3) most of them live very sparsely and send a large amount of the money they make back to family in their own country.

LOL I just love phrases like 'most of them'. We've got an immigration expert here.


Here in central OC there are a HUGE number of "wire money" places. Hundreds. All of them have signs predominantly in Spanish. What kind of business do you think the do?

I casually know several illegals. All but one of them wire money to relatives in Mexico.
 
2012-10-15 07:51:29 PM

Elbarfo: What, you think they'd deliberately misconstrue the numbers just before an election? No way man...


No, I totally believe that only 8% of all able-bodied people between the ages of 21 of 65 don't have full employment.

Also, I remember all the screaming in the last 6 months of W's term when unemployment was 5.5% that "Yeah but people are UNDER employed!" We're not hearing a lot of that, now, not even when obviously bogus numbers are coming out of the current administration.

Just because you voted for Obama doesn't mean you can't admit the numbers are fishy.
 
2012-10-15 08:24:19 PM
Okay Farkers, here come the facts(not that anyone out there gives a shirt):

When they counted the numbers California had not reported so it was left out. Therefore the numbers were not accurate, California has a high rate of unemployment and it is a big State.

The big problem here is, no one trusts the media any more. They lie so often it is like the boy who cried wolf.
 
2012-10-15 09:11:09 PM
The good news is even subby's mom has a job. Sucking trucker cock in a Wal-Mart parking lot is a job.
 
2012-10-16 12:55:33 AM

browntimmy: LaughingRadish: Let's assume that the September job numbers are legitimate and that Obama had something to do with it. We're talking about a man who had nearly four years to do SOMETHING to get the US economy back on its feet and hiring people and only now he has some piddling fraction of a percentage point to show for it? That's not what I consider a "good job".  That's like a juvenile delinquent expecting to be valedictorian because he somehow squeaked by with a D instead of an F this time.

You've apparently ignored the hundreds of charts showing unemployment was on it's way down when he took office and is now on the way back up. I'm betting you're also the type that cries about gas prices being twice what they were when Obama took office in '09 and forgetting that they were even higher than now in the summer of '08.


"...now on the way back up." Did you mean to say the opposite? Agreeing with me does jive with the rest of what you wrote. I'm looking at the gas prices and hope that they doesn't get to the point they were in '08.  Other than that, I'm not sure what you're attempting to refute.
 
2012-10-16 12:56:16 AM

LaughingRadish: browntimmy: LaughingRadish: Let's assume that the September job numbers are legitimate and that Obama had something to do with it. We're talking about a man who had nearly four years to do SOMETHING to get the US economy back on its feet and hiring people and only now he has some piddling fraction of a percentage point to show for it? That's not what I consider a "good job".  That's like a juvenile delinquent expecting to be valedictorian because he somehow squeaked by with a D instead of an F this time.

You've apparently ignored the hundreds of charts showing unemployment was on it's way down when he took office and is now on the way back up. I'm betting you're also the type that cries about gas prices being twice what they were when Obama took office in '09 and forgetting that they were even higher than now in the summer of '08.

"...now on the way back up." Did you mean to say the opposite? Agreeing with me does jive with the rest of what you wrote. I'm looking at the gas prices and hope that they doesn't get to the point they were in '08.  Other than that, I'm not sure what you're attempting to refute.


"does not jive", dammit.
 
2012-10-16 04:33:40 AM

LaughingRadish:

"does not jive", dammit.


Jibe.
 
2012-10-16 06:32:23 AM
Obama dirty tricks?

Nah!
 
2012-10-16 08:41:19 AM

CountryClubRepublican: Obama dirty tricks?

Nah!


Don't you hate it when people beat you at your own game?
 
2012-10-16 08:11:30 PM

GORDON: Elbarfo: What, you think they'd deliberately misconstrue the numbers just before an election? No way man...

No, I totally believe that only 8% of all able-bodied people between the ages of 21 of 65 don't have full employment.

Also, I remember all the screaming in the last 6 months of W's term when unemployment was 5.5% that "Yeah but people are UNDER employed!" We're not hearing a lot of that, now, not even when obviously bogus numbers are coming out of the current administration.

Just because you voted for Obama doesn't mean you can't admit the numbers are fishy.


The sarcasm whoosed right by you there, didn't it, Sherlock.

No worries, I wouldn't vote for Obama even if Obamagirl herself gave me a beej.

I wont be voting for Romney for all the same reasons, however.
 
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