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(USA Today)   Add USAToday to the conspiracy theorists who don't think the September jobs numbers add up   (usatoday.com) divider line 97
    More: Interesting, conspiracy theories, job fair, national emergency  
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7921 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2012 at 8:29 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-15 08:32:05 AM  
"James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.
 
2012-10-15 08:32:12 AM  
What, you think they'd deliberately misconstrue the numbers just before an election? No way man...
 
2012-10-15 08:32:55 AM  
USA today thinks the opposite, this is a counterpoint to their editorial which calls people who doubt the numbers "cuckoos"
 
2012-10-15 08:33:17 AM  
Everybody who does not have a job or has a crappy job, please raise your hands.
 
2012-10-15 08:33:27 AM  
Columnist from the American Enterprise Institute.
 
2012-10-15 08:34:04 AM  
If I can just make up numbers, I can make it sound as bad as I like!
 
2012-10-15 08:34:33 AM  
Come on, if you want to take a random conspiracy theory and go full retard with it, at least choose an interesting one. Truthers, birthers, moon landing hoaxers, Holocaust deniers and so on might all be dumb as shiat, but at least they're amusing; this is just boring.
 
2012-10-15 08:34:51 AM  
They don't care what the numbers are. They are reflexively opposed to anything this President does.

Whatever it is....
 
2012-10-15 08:36:42 AM  

Lershac: USA today thinks the opposite, this is a counterpoint to their editorial which calls people who doubt the numbers "cuckoos"


And the counterpoint proves that USA Today is right.

/Jane, you ignorant slut
 
2012-10-15 08:38:23 AM  
When I'm king, I'm going to ban think tanks. Also, the term think tanks.
 
2012-10-15 08:39:58 AM  
Recently all of the regular employees at the fast food joints and gas stations around here left and were replaced by ones who speak and understand english.

A quiet INS crackdown forcing businesses to fire illegals would easily explain the number increase, and if credit for that can be laid at Obama's feet, I thank him. WIsh he had pushed this earlier, but... Good job!
 
2012-10-15 08:40:10 AM  
"It's impossible! It's only happened nine times before!"
 
2012-10-15 08:40:44 AM  

LDM90: When I'm king, I'm going to ban think tanks. Also, the term think tanks.


I think tanks are awesome
 
2012-10-15 08:40:47 AM  
Wow, submitter. That's uh... really something.
 
2012-10-15 08:40:52 AM  
Most of the stories I've read have been about people who have jobs- just not the ones they like or pay much. But isn't that still a job? I've never had a dream job making a ton of money- and that's my fault, not the gov't. If I had moved to another city, I could have. If you can't get your dream job, join the 95% of the world.
 
2012-10-15 08:41:24 AM  
Headline = "Add USA Today..."

Article = Opinion Tab

Subby = Fail
 
2012-10-15 08:43:58 AM  
Clearly this is vindication of Alex Jones and his lizard people theory
 
2012-10-15 08:44:08 AM  
I agree that the unemployment numbers are skewed by the change made in 1994 that decided if you were discouraged for more than 12 months you were no longer part of the unemployed. The U-6 number is a far more accurate reflection of the total employment picture. That said, biatching about a measure that's been used for eighteen years because you don't like what it says in the month before the election is Grade A 100% bullshiat. Does anyone think these same people will be complaining about the inaccuracy of the unemployment number after January if Romney wins?
 
2012-10-15 08:46:04 AM  
The media needs to use a more realistic approach to illustrate job loss. The most confounding idea is the recent "jobs created" myth which cannot be quantified by any means.
 
2012-10-15 08:46:15 AM  

Sybarite: I agree that the unemployment numbers are skewed by the change made in 1994 that decided if you were discouraged for more than 12 months you were no longer part of the unemployed. The U-6 number is a far more accurate reflection of the total employment picture. That said, biatching about a measure that's been used for eighteen years because you don't like what it says in the month before the election is Grade A 100% bullshiat. Does anyone think these same people will be complaining about the inaccuracy of the unemployment number after January if Romney wins?


Uh, yea. They'll say they're much too high.
 
2012-10-15 08:47:02 AM  
Excellent troll headline, unfortunately the mouth breathers (on both sides) aren't up til about noon so you're not likely to get too many bites, it'll mostly be the humorless automatons pointing out that its an opinion piece by a partisan hack tank.

Got a few though, good on you..
 
2012-10-15 08:48:07 AM  
Just because they lied about the last 22 jobless reports isn't a reason to doubt this report.
 
2012-10-15 08:52:43 AM  

PawisBetlog: humorless automatons


How is it that main page posters are so consistently bad
 
2012-10-15 08:58:10 AM  
FTA The U.S. lost 9 million private-sector jobs during the Great Recession. Just 5 million have been recovered. Even worse, the level of private-sector jobs remains 13 million below the pre-crisis job growth trend. That's the true jobs gap, and it isn't closing.


Don't count on Romney or Obama causing that jobs gap to go away anytime soon and it's a very simple reason as to why. For those of us that have survived all the various layoff and downsizing what was the first thing that happen when your coworkers were pinked slipped, you job duties doubled, and/or you had to work more hours. Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back. And even now that, despite what the right-wing blog sphere says, the economy is turning around employers are only hiring part time because it's still cheaper to hire two part-timers then one full timer.

This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.
 
2012-10-15 08:58:30 AM  

bborchar: If you can't get your dream job, join the 95% of the world.


I think "dream job" is a rare thing. For most people, jobs are something you do and get moderately good at so you can have some pride in it.

If I were going to reform jobs, I'd make participation shorter, and make more responsibility fall on each worker, as well as requiring skills for just about anything. The emphasis should be less on "being there" and more on showing up, working efficiently, and then going home to have a life.

In particular, we should stop jobs which treat people as interchangeable parts and reward participation more than results, so that if you stay 10-12 hours instead of 8 you get promoted, even if you did nothing important.

Treat people like people instead of zombie slaves and you get better results.
 
2012-10-15 08:58:41 AM  
clearly a data point that follows a trend is an outlier and evidence of numbers fixing.

That is how numbers fixing works, right?

/derp
 
2012-10-15 09:05:12 AM  

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


An editorial is something a PATRIOT writes to get out the TRUTH.

Study it out.

/No, not serious
//If you can't beat em, join em
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-15 09:10:43 AM  

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


I think it's funny how people on the right think that articles are written by a newspaper or magazine or whatever and not by an author. i think the reason is that they aren't familiar with news sites that offer a variety of different opinions from authors who are free to write their own opinions.

They are accustomed to right wing sites that ate all spin all the time, so when a real news magazine publishes a right wing opinion piece they think it is the paper itself endorsing or "admitting" that the columnist is right.
 
2012-10-15 09:18:55 AM  

dennysgod: This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.


WTOP this morning quoted an economist (maybe an economic institute's report?) that says they don't expect unemployment to drop below 7.8% next year regardless of who wins. They predict GDP grows sub-2% as well.

Unemployment (recovery - the jobs get lost when they get lost) lags behind probably 12-18 months.
 
2012-10-15 09:20:55 AM  
Headline: Add USAToday to the conspiracy theorists who don't think the September jobs numbers add up

The USAToday Editorial Board: Lower Unemployment Rate Inspires Cuckoos
 
2012-10-15 09:41:49 AM  
Just Fartbongo cookin' da books, trying desperately to get re-elected. Move on, nothing to see here........
 
2012-10-15 09:46:38 AM  

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


I don't get your point.
 
2012-10-15 09:47:28 AM  

Hoarseman: Columnist from the American Enterprise Institute.


Your point?
 
2012-10-15 09:55:32 AM  

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


And his only source is a "perma-bear" who works at a Canadian investment firm that doesn't want you to get your poor stink on them if you don't have $3,000,000 to spare.
 
2012-10-15 10:03:32 AM  
FTFA: "I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but I don't believe in the household survey either."

Correction: "I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but I don't believe in the household survey either, unless it supports my belief."
 
2012-10-15 10:05:08 AM  
James Pethokoukis, columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, thinks Mitt Romney's tax plan adds up but the September job numbers don't.

Alrighty then.
 
2012-10-15 10:05:15 AM  

Mager: Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


This. It was the first thing I noticed. Third party editorials =/= the views of USA Today.
 
2012-10-15 10:05:44 AM  
the gov't is constantly changing the way jobs added/jobs lost is measured. Our true unemployment is much higher than the gov't reported number. It is purely a measure for propaganda.
 
2012-10-15 10:06:18 AM  

dennysgod: Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back.


That's true. This is why raising costs through regulation and state-funded healthcare was probably not the best move.
 
2012-10-15 10:06:40 AM  

Deep Contact: Everybody who does not have a job or has a crappy job, please raise your hands.


"Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called everybody, and they meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey
 
2012-10-15 10:07:22 AM  

bborchar: Most of the stories I've read have been about people who have jobs- just not the ones they like or pay much. But isn't that still a job? I've never had a dream job making a ton of money- and that's my fault, not the gov't. If I had moved to another city, I could have. If you can't get your dream job, join the 95% of the world.


One of the problems in getting a crappy job is that you can get in a death spiral for UI benefits. I'm an accountant by trade, at the Controller / Accounting Manager level. It's tough getting a job because:
1) there is generally only one of those jobs per company, and a lot of companies that were around 4 years ago are gone.
2) applying for a lesser position, such as a Staff Accountant, creates fear in the interviewer that I will leave as soon as I find a better job.

The EDD requires that I only look for work in my field, so I don't have to accept a job somewhere as a cashier, or whatnot (assuming I could get hired; got turned down for a cashier job at a Jack in the Box because I didn't speak Spanish and had to interface with 4 other employees who only spoke Spanish; but that's another story).

But not getting that job was a good thing, in a way. If I'd been accepted in a $10 cashier, it would have reduced future UI benefits, since UI is based on how much you earn during the base period.

Since my last temp agency job lasted 2 months and paid quite well, I'm currently near the max, at $412 per week. I know a homeless guy who was a draftsman at an architect firm. He was making decent money when he got laid off 3+ years ago, so his UI was maxed at $450/week. He was dumb enough to accept lower-salary jobs outside his area and was eventually getting $97/week UI. Death spiral.

Now even the max of $450/week is not enough for rent/food/gas/etc/etc/etc on a sustained basis in So Cal, so you get rid of the biggest ticket, the rent, and start living in your camper or whatnot, But $97/week is bullshiat. Even with buy1get1free coupons, a fast food meal at a Carls will run $3-$4 bucks.
 
2012-10-15 10:09:04 AM  

spelletrader: Headline = "Add USA Today..."

Article = Opinion Tab

Subby = Fail


Thanks. I was going to point that out, but didn't want to be branded as a ZOMFG!RacistFascistRethuglicanObamaHater.
 
2012-10-15 10:13:54 AM  

Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.


Exactly. The AEI is an ultra-right wing "think tank" that gets no credence from anyone. They are also taking the position that Mitt Romney is correct about public school choice and that Obama's is a path to communism. This is actually one of the only points the two men agree on.
 
2012-10-15 10:14:06 AM  
Group charged with publishing anti-Obama propoganda publishes anti-Obama propoganda. News at 11
 
2012-10-15 10:18:14 AM  

Aeon Rising: Recently all of the regular employees at the fast food joints and gas stations around here left and were replaced by ones who speak and understand english.

A quiet INS crackdown forcing businesses to fire illegals would easily explain the number increase, and if credit for that can be laid at Obama's feet, I thank him. WIsh he had pushed this earlier, but... Good job!


Yeah, tell me about it. There's a Jack in the Box around here where at least 4 employees speak only Spanish. Hmmmmmm...... Any faint chance they are illegals?

Poorer citizens should be pissed off about the flood of (ahem) undocumented workers for these reasons:

1) they accept jobs under the table for cash and throw minimum wage citizens out of work.

2) they drive up the cost of even crappy apartments by increasing the demand for housing.

3) most of them live very sparsely and send a large amount of the money they make back to family in their own country. This drives down demand for consumer goods, relative to money spent by businesses for labor costs, and contributes to keeping the economy tanked. The poor, of course and as always, get in worse in the shorts than the more well-to-do.

/Patiently waiting for the howls of Racist! from the usual suspects.
 
2012-10-15 10:21:29 AM  

dennysgod: FTA The U.S. lost 9 million private-sector jobs during the Great Recession. Just 5 million have been recovered. Even worse, the level of private-sector jobs remains 13 million below the pre-crisis job growth trend. That's the true jobs gap, and it isn't closing.


Don't count on Romney or Obama causing that jobs gap to go away anytime soon and it's a very simple reason as to why. For those of us that have survived all the various layoff and downsizing what was the first thing that happen when your coworkers were pinked slipped, you job duties doubled, and/or you had to work more hours. Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back. And even now that, despite what the right-wing blog sphere says, the economy is turning around employers are only hiring part time because it's still cheaper to hire two part-timers then one full timer.

This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.


You have it exact right in all respects. It is frustrating that liberals/progressives cannot see these simple facts. It is so simple and so obvious.
 
2012-10-15 10:27:35 AM  
The jobs numbers have been complete fiction for a long time. Why are people ready to believe this set?
 
2012-10-15 10:27:44 AM  
Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.
 
2012-10-15 10:29:41 AM  

sodomizer: bborchar: If you can't get your dream job, join the 95% of the world.

I think "dream job" is a rare thing. For most people, jobs are something you do and get moderately good at so you can have some pride in it.

If I were going to reform jobs, I'd make participation shorter, and make more responsibility fall on each worker, as well as requiring skills for just about anything. The emphasis should be less on "being there" and more on showing up, working efficiently, and then going home to have a life.

In particular, we should stop jobs which treat people as interchangeable parts and reward participation more than results, so that if you stay 10-12 hours instead of 8 you get promoted, even if you did nothing important.

Treat people like people instead of zombie slaves and you get better results.


Good points. Society is going to be another crisis in a few years, and that is humanoid robots (who don't have to receive benefits and will work 24/7) replacing people in many types of jobs. We need to start adjusting for that now.

Start by reducing the legal work week w/ no overtime from 40 to 39 hours. Each year adjust it down by 1 hour. (This gradual adjustment is so businesses can adjust and not cause a huge spike in product prices.) I would think that an eventual 32-35 hour work week would help soak up a lot of excess labor.

What to do with the extra time available? Another issue.
 
2012-10-15 10:31:15 AM  

vpb: Mager: "James Pethokoukis is a columnist and blogger at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, D.C"

American Enterprise Institute

Man people don't even understand what an editorial is anymore.

I think it's funny how people on the right think that articles are written by a newspaper or magazine or whatever and not by an author. i think the reason is that they aren't familiar with news sites that offer a variety of different opinions from authors who are free to write their own opinions.

They are accustomed to right wing sites that ate all spin all the time, so when a real news magazine publishes a right wing opinion piece they think it is the paper itself endorsing or "admitting" that the columnist is right.


Well... no.
 
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