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(Huffington Post)   Leaked internal memos show that Walmart executives really really really don't like unions, which has surprised absolutely no one. Obvious tag last seen shopping at Target   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 178
    More: Obvious, United Food, unfair labor practice, Sam Walton, hourly workers, workers' rights, corporate culture, UFCW, Ithaca  
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4036 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Oct 2012 at 10:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-15 10:34:05 AM
ya know...if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one. if the management team doesn't like it, well...that's fine. they get a say, just like the rank and file. But...at the end of all this, if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one without interference from the CEO and his management team.

I just don't understand all the union hate. if you don't want to join, then don't join.
 
2012-10-15 10:41:39 AM
incredible amounts of union busting going on in this country the last few years.
 
2012-10-15 10:42:09 AM
Walmart not only cashes in on welfare by receiving huge amounts of welfare money -they also have large amounts of staff ON welfare since Walmart doesn't pay a living wage.
 
2012-10-15 10:46:17 AM
I remember when I worked at Wal-Mart during college, they were really anti-union. We even got to watch a couple of anti-union videos during orientation which were pretty entertaining. It was like "stranger danger" except about the evil union thugs coming to steal your wages in the form of dues.
 
2012-10-15 10:47:43 AM

ltdanman44: incredible amounts of union busting going on in this country the last few years.


yeah. I don't really understand the reasons for that either.
 
2012-10-15 10:48:41 AM
The problem with our economy is that unions are just far too powerful. They run everything. I'd like to return to the 1950s when taxes were around 0% and unions were banned. Our GDP was like, 200% back then. Study it out and you'll see. Just study it out.
 
2012-10-15 10:50:36 AM

Weaver95: ltdanman44: incredible amounts of union busting going on in this country the last few years.

yeah. I don't really understand the reasons for that either.


Idol worship. While you're working your dead end $6/hour part time job, you can look up to those mighty, bootstrappy 1%er's and dream of one day being them.  They never needed any help so you don't either otherwise the American Dream is a lie.
 
2012-10-15 11:00:34 AM
"As you know," the memo opens, "activists or union organizers have been trying for years to stop our Company's growth and to damage our relationship with our customers and members

OK, but how do you REALLY feel about your workers organizing?
 
2012-10-15 11:04:20 AM

swaxhog: Weaver95: ltdanman44: incredible amounts of union busting going on in this country the last few years.

yeah. I don't really understand the reasons for that either.

Idol worship. While you're working your dead end $6/hour part time job, you can look up to those mighty, bootstrappy 1%er's and dream of one day being them.  They never needed any help so you don't either otherwise the American Dream is a lie.


but that...doesn't make sense. look, the GOP tells their rank and file that 'greed is good' and that a 'f*ck you I got mine' lifestyle is perfectly valid. well...if by joining a union I benefit my bottom line then i'm being completely consistent with the modern Republican philosophy. the GOP rank and file should be lining up to join unions, and getting in on the ground floor.
 
2012-10-15 11:08:27 AM
If unions weren't criminal organizations maybe people would like them.
 
2012-10-15 11:08:42 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: Walmart not only cashes in on welfare by receiving huge amounts of welfare money -they also have large amounts of staff ON welfare since Walmart doesn't pay a living wage.


And on medicaid which they pass on to the tax paying public.
 
2012-10-15 11:12:23 AM

lordaction: If unions weren't criminal organizations maybe people would like them.


huh?
 
2012-10-15 11:14:00 AM

Weaver95: lordaction: If unions weren't criminal organizations maybe people would like them.

huh?


Study it out! Just study it out.
 
2012-10-15 11:14:21 AM

Rapmaster2000: Weaver95: lordaction: If unions weren't criminal organizations maybe people would like them.

huh?

Study it out! Just study it out.


that makes no sense.
 
2012-10-15 11:15:16 AM

Weaver95: ya know...if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one. if the management team doesn't like it, well...that's fine. they get a say, just like the rank and file. But...at the end of all this, if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one without interference from the CEO and his management team.

I just don't understand all the union hate. if you don't want to join, then don't join.


If the rank and file want a union, they should be able to form one. If the management doesn't like it, then it is their right to fire all the union people and hire people who actually want to work. Any laws that prohibit this are unjust and unfair.


If you don't want to join, then they block you from being hired and harass the shiat out of you. When I worked at a grocery store I had to be part of the union. They took part of my paycheck to fund people and groups that violated my religious freedom. Unions are the scum of the Earth.
 
2012-10-15 11:17:04 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: Walmart not only cashes in on welfare by receiving huge amounts of welfare money -they also have large amounts of staff ON welfare since Walmart doesn't pay a living wage.


All wages are living wages, or else people wouldn't take the job.

Walmart jobs may not support the phat rimz dawg on their whip yo homie, but it is fine for food, rent and utilities.
 
2012-10-15 11:19:58 AM

Bullseyed: Weaver95: ya know...if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one. if the management team doesn't like it, well...that's fine. they get a say, just like the rank and file. But...at the end of all this, if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one without interference from the CEO and his management team.

I just don't understand all the union hate. if you don't want to join, then don't join.

If the rank and file want a union, they should be able to form one. If the management doesn't like it, then it is their right to fire all the union people and hire people who actually want to work. Any laws that prohibit this are unjust and unfair.


If you don't want to join, then they block you from being hired and harass the shiat out of you. When I worked at a grocery store I had to be part of the union. They took part of my paycheck to fund people and groups that violated my religious freedom. Unions are the scum of the Earth.


You know, unions are democratic organizations. If you don't like what your union supports onvince enough members to vote differently.

My government takes part of my income and does things I don't supporrt. So I vote against them when I can.

/feeling a little goatish today
 
2012-10-15 11:20:27 AM

Bullseyed:
If the rank and file want a union, they should be able to form one. If the management doesn't like it, then it is their right to fire all the union people and hire people who actually want to work. Any laws that prohibit this are unjust and unfair.


except that you can't fire everyone and keep people from forming a union. for starters thats highly illegal and secondly - it's expensive to retrain your ENTIRE workforce. not to mention extremely disruptive to your business.

If you don't want to join, then they block you from being hired and harass the shiat out of you. When I worked at a grocery store I had to be part of the union. They took part of my paycheck to fund people and groups that violated my religious freedom. Unions are the scum of the Earth.

I've seen that talking point before. 'unions do things that violated my beliefs!' well...what do you think CEOs and other 1% types do with their money? they're not living a christian lifestyle, I can tell you that much. you should be MORE angry with the 1% than you are with unions.
 
2012-10-15 11:23:44 AM

Bullseyed: Because People in power are Stupid: Walmart not only cashes in on welfare by receiving huge amounts of welfare money -they also have large amounts of staff ON welfare since Walmart doesn't pay a living wage.

All wages are living wages, or else people wouldn't take the job.

Walmart jobs may not support the phat rimz dawg on their whip yo homie, but it is fine for food, rent and utilities.


really? maybe if you live in a shiathole 40 miles away from your work. and then you have car costs, and don't get sick.
 
2012-10-15 11:24:16 AM
Unions are people too my friends.
 
2012-10-15 11:25:14 AM
Organization of labor, organization of capital. Both are market-oriented regimes to keep an economy humming. The two cannot exist independently, not for more than a couple decades at least.

The widespread hatred of unions is entirely the product the plutocracy's short-sightedness and their control of mass communications.
 
2012-10-15 11:27:29 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Unions are people too my friends.


weirdly enough, yeah - they're non-profit corporations. so thanks to SCOTUS, yes indeed, unions ARE people...just like any other corporation.
 
2012-10-15 11:28:08 AM

Bullseyed: Walmart jobs may not support the phat rimz dawg on their whip yo homie, but it is fine for food, rent and utilities.


Yeah....no. It's really not.
 
2012-10-15 11:33:28 AM
I feel like these days we need more unions again. The economic collapse seems to have ushered in a new era of the top 1% enthusiastically farking everybody else constantly.
 
2012-10-15 11:33:35 AM

Weaver95: Rapmaster2000: Weaver95: lordaction: If unions weren't criminal organizations maybe people would like them.

huh?

Study it out! Just study it out.

that makes no sense.


Clarification: Link.
 
2012-10-15 11:38:49 AM
Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your 2.5 gallon jar of Vlasic pickles.
 
2012-10-15 11:40:44 AM

amishkarl: Bullseyed: Weaver95: ya know...if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one. if the management team doesn't like it, well...that's fine. they get a say, just like the rank and file. But...at the end of all this, if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one without interference from the CEO and his management team.

I just don't understand all the union hate. if you don't want to join, then don't join.

If the rank and file want a union, they should be able to form one. If the management doesn't like it, then it is their right to fire all the union people and hire people who actually want to work. Any laws that prohibit this are unjust and unfair.


If you don't want to join, then they block you from being hired and harass the shiat out of you. When I worked at a grocery store I had to be part of the union. They took part of my paycheck to fund people and groups that violated my religious freedom. Unions are the scum of the Earth.

You know, unions are democratic organizations. If you don't like what your union supports onvince enough members to vote differently.

My government takes part of my income and does things I don't supporrt. So I vote against them when I can.
/feeling a little goatish today


You can always get on your high horse and make an announcement that you will move out the United States if you disagree with what the government does with your money that you don't support.

/please tell us when you are leaving - so we can have a party - after you are gone
//you probably don't have the balls to do it - do you?
 
2012-10-15 11:42:35 AM
6
Christy Walton & family
$27.9 B 57 Jackson, Wyoming Wal-Mart
7
Jim Walton
$26.8 B 64 Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart
8
Alice Walton
$26.3 B 63 Fort Worth, Texas Wal-Mart
9
S. Robson Walton
$26.1 B 68 Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart

The Walton's are 6-9 on America's richest list.
Just how much money does a person need? I know that the company is in business to make money, but they could take maybe a billion or so and share the wealth with the people that make it happen for them.
/ wishful thinking
 
2012-10-15 11:46:55 AM
Upon closer inspection, the Forbes list reveals that six Waltons-all children (one daughter-in-law) of Sam or James "Bud" Walton the founders of Wal-Mart-were on the list. The combined worth of the Walton six was $69.7 billion in 2007-which equated to the total wealth of the entire bottom thirty percent!

And it's still not enough.
 
2012-10-15 11:47:52 AM

cig-mkr: Just how much money does a person need?


All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.

- Infamous socialist Benjamin Franklin
 
2012-10-15 11:49:12 AM

Weaver95: I just don't understand all the union hate. if you don't want to join, then don't join.


Just another example of the oligarchs convincing us plebs that stuff that is in our best interest is actually against it. If people truly understood and voted for things that were, most industries would be unionized and the Republican party would cease to exist.
 
2012-10-15 11:50:27 AM
For a "secret union busting memo" that really was really tame.

Remember, don't violate their rights, don't discipline, you can't threaten, intimidate, promise or spy on them

Use our standard management techniques to foster an open dialogue with our employees

Yep, this is a real red letter day in the history of Walmart. Wow.

Honestly, there has to be a balance between worker wages and rights, and the ability of a company to run a profitable business. We have all seen instances where Union power was excessive and damaged a company. When that happens, too much, there are less jobs for everyone and people become anti-union. We have all seen companies where the Company squeezes their employees too much, and you start seeing Unions reorganizing so the employees can push back.

The writing has been on the wall for a long time. When Walmart first started, people considered it a good place to work. But those days are long ago.

Walmart can prevent Unions from gaining a toehold by improving working conditions/pay, but current management is probably too entrenched in their current patterns to do that.
 
2012-10-15 11:55:19 AM

cig-mkr: 6
Christy Walton & family
$27.9 B 57 Jackson, Wyoming Wal-Mart
7
Jim Walton
$26.8 B 64 Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart
8
Alice Walton
$26.3 B 63 Fort Worth, Texas Wal-Mart
9
S. Robson Walton
$26.1 B 68 Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart

The Walton's are 6-9 on America's richest list.
Just how much money does a person need? I know that the company is in business to make money, but they could take maybe a billion or so and share the wealth with the people that make it happen for them.
/ wishful thinking


Commie!

Oh wait, that's stale. I meant Socialist!

Is that even right? I've lost track. All I know is that you are probably Muslim too.
 
2012-10-15 11:55:58 AM

weiserfireman: Remember, don't violate their rights, don't discipline, you can't threaten, intimidate, promise or spy on them


There are laws protecting workers' rights (to organize, etc.) but their enforcement is nearly toothless - they've been hollowed out by three decades of Republicanism. So employers have every reason to intimidate, harass, blacklist, fire, and so on any workers who so much as contemplate a union drive.
 
2012-10-15 11:58:09 AM
When I was a kid, about 6 or 7, my dream was to be a coal miner. Man, I wanted to walk out of those mines covered in black dust, lighting up a smoke, drinking a beer with the guys.

Unions and your libtard regulations destroyed that dream. What give you the right?
 
2012-10-15 11:58:35 AM
Walmart pays its employees so little that they require over $400,000 in food stamps annually. (Not sure if this is total or per store)

In any case, should Walmart be forced to pay this money back, or to pay employees a living wage?
 
2012-10-15 12:00:53 PM

Weaver95: ya know...if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one. if the management team doesn't like it, well...that's fine. they get a say, just like the rank and file. But...at the end of all this, if the rank and file want a union then they should be able to form one without interference from the CEO and his management team.

I just don't understand all the union hate. if you don't want to join, then don't join.


this is a "leaked" memo by Wal-Mart's PR team. Their actual response Union organizing is very well documented and includes flying in anti-union "SWAT" teams form Hq who take over managing any store where union activity is suspected. The store has racked up almost as many violations of the labor law, as they have sanctions for violating the discovery process in civil lawsuits (hint: more than the entire rest of the fortune 500 combined)
 
2012-10-15 12:01:08 PM

lordaction: If unions weren't criminal organizations maybe people would like them.


They are corrupt! I recall back in the 80's they let out a phone call between then Philly mob boss Scarfo and the union president Bob Jones.

Bob: Scarfo, you need to bring your mob in and take over my union so I can give you all my money.

Scarfo: What who now?

Bob: Don't play games, if you don't take over and corrupt my union, I'll kill my own family in front of myself!

Scarfo: Whoaa, calm down! Ok ok! We will steal your money! Damn unions!
 
2012-10-15 12:08:24 PM

lordaction: If unions weren't criminal organizations maybe people would like them.


Corporations, however, are paragons of virtue, and would never think of colluding or committing criminal acts to, for example, crash the economy or avoid responsibility and cover up a massive oil spill...
 
2012-10-15 12:09:03 PM

weiserfireman: Walmart can prevent Unions from gaining a toehold by improving working conditions/pay, but current management is probably too entrenched in their current patterns to do that.


That's the funny thing. The unions wouldn't be getting anywhere near the traction they are in some places if the Bentonville folks didn't have their heads up their asses. It wouldn't even take too much more money (not necessarily even wages, just hiring enough people to get the job done that the higher ups actually WANT done... they tend to make demands that can't be met with the resources they allot) to do things right. Still, going union wouldn't change most of that.

Even more amusing, Walmart's pay and benefits package is NOT that much different from what you'd get in any other retail place. All this BS about Walmart not paying a "living wage"... hell, you think unionized grocery stores pay a living wage? That's complete and utter bullshiat- I was in the UFCW for a while at a grocery store and I had the same shiat pulled that gets done at Walmart. You'd get 3 hour shifts instead of 4 so you didn't get a break (or 7 hours instead of 8, so no lunch for you). You didn't get paid $15/hour, you got just over minimum... like Walmart. Only instead of getting raises based on individual performance you got what everybody else got, so there was no reason to work harder. You didn't get 30-40 hours a week... there weren't that many full time slots and those were parceled out by seniority; you got 20 hours. And all the time I got to pay union dues too, so my take home pay was reduced over what it might have been elsewhere.

So someone can tell me all about what a unionized retail store gives that WMT doesn't. I'll laugh my ass off at the ignorance. Target isn't unionized. Neither are most other places like that. But the UFCW has a hard on for WMT because they're such a huge company. If they unionized it would be a ton more money coming in for the union honchos to blow on themselves and on politicians- it would mean even more political power for them. It has nothing to do with how bad Walmart is, it has EVERYTHING to do with how much the leaders of the union would gain from that kind of move.
 
2012-10-15 12:10:15 PM
Target doesn't like unions either, but it's better at appealing to hipsters, yuppies, and other Stuff-White-People-Like (SWPL) types*.

I'm always amazed at how emotionally appealing to SWPLs will let you get away with anything. Target does all of the same things that make people angry at Walmart. IKEA is the biggest corporate tax evader in the world. Trader Joe's was partially founded by someone who fought for the Nazis (OK, that's a bit mean - he served in the Wehrmacht, not the Waffen SS and formed a different company before the rise of Aldi - but if SWPLs hated TJs you better believe they'd use that against them).

But since Nestle still makes crappy coffee and milk chocolate that don't feed their sense of elitism, they still get grief over the African baby formula scandal.

*also has that really clever shopping cart escalator so it can use urban locations
 
2012-10-15 12:10:52 PM

GriffXX: cig-mkr: 6
Christy Walton & family
$27.9 B 57 Jackson, Wyoming Wal-Mart
7
Jim Walton
$26.8 B 64 Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart
8
Alice Walton
$26.3 B 63 Fort Worth, Texas Wal-Mart
9
S. Robson Walton
$26.1 B 68 Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart

The Walton's are 6-9 on America's richest list.
Just how much money does a person need? I know that the company is in business to make money, but they could take maybe a billion or so and share the wealth with the people that make it happen for them.
/ wishful thinking

Commie!

Oh wait, that's stale. I meant Socialist!

Is that even right? I've lost track. All I know is that you are probably Muslim too.


Sorry, none of the above, not a bleeding heart liberal either.
I wouldn't advocate taking their hard earned money away from them (or anyone for that matter), they deserve it.
I don't have a lot, but I'm willing to share what little I have with others. If I were that rich I certainly would make sure my employees were the happiest folks they could be.
 
2012-10-15 12:12:05 PM

CokeBear: lordaction: If unions weren't criminal organizations maybe people would like them.

Corporations, however, are paragons of virtue, and would never think of colluding or committing criminal acts to, for example, crash the economy or avoid responsibility and cover up a massive oil spill...


Way to deflect. Do you always change the subject when you are losing a discussion?
 
2012-10-15 12:14:59 PM

beta_plus: Target doesn't like unions either, but it's better at appealing to hipsters, yuppies, and other Stuff-White-People-Like (SWPL) types*.

I'm always amazed at how emotionally appealing to SWPLs will let you get away with anything. Target does all of the same things that make people angry at Walmart. IKEA is the biggest corporate tax evader in the world. Trader Joe's was partially founded by someone who fought for the Nazis (OK, that's a bit mean - he served in the Wehrmacht, not the Waffen SS and formed a different company before the rise of Aldi - but if SWPLs hated TJs you better believe they'd use that against them).

But since Nestle still makes crappy coffee and milk chocolate that don't feed their sense of elitism, they still get grief over the African baby formula scandal.

*also has that really clever shopping cart escalator so it can use urban locations


Target is a large evil-ish corporation but it is not as actively malevolent as Wal-mart or the Walton family. As for a s store that does treat its employees well look at Costco, which pays a decent wage, has a tuition benefit and STILL kick's sam's Club's ass for retail profit per store sq ft
 
2012-10-15 12:18:50 PM

beta_plus: Target doesn't like unions either, but it's better at appealing to hipsters, yuppies, and other Stuff-White-People-Like (SWPL) types*.

I'm always amazed at how emotionally appealing to SWPLs will let you get away with anything. Target does all of the same things that make people angry at Walmart. IKEA is the biggest corporate tax evader in the world. Trader Joe's was partially founded by someone who fought for the Nazis (OK, that's a bit mean - he served in the Wehrmacht, not the Waffen SS and formed a different company before the rise of Aldi - but if SWPLs hated TJs you better believe they'd use that against them).

But since Nestle still makes crappy coffee and milk chocolate that don't feed their sense of elitism, they still get grief over the African baby formula scandal.

*also has that really clever shopping cart escalator so it can use urban locations


Amen brother. Wal-Mart wages and benefits are inline with other discount retailers. Btw before someone mentions Costco that's apple and oranges.
 
2012-10-15 12:19:22 PM

CokeBear: Walmart pays its employees so little that they require over $400,000 in food stamps annually. (Not sure if this is total or per store)

In any case, should Walmart be forced to pay this money back, or to pay employees a living wage?


Walmart usually pays around $10 an hour for part time. Sure full time is very hard to get but you signed up for part time you get part time hours. I'm sure that number is because of part time hours, again it's not walmarts job to give everyone full time. If they gave everyone full time then they wouldn't need as many workers and you would have even more people on welfare.

My problem is works extorting the company to get more hours. Yes it sucks you only get 30 hours a week but when you were hired you were told that to complain afterward is childish and BS.
 
2012-10-15 12:24:22 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: beta_plus: Target doesn't like unions either, but it's better at appealing to hipsters, yuppies, and other Stuff-White-People-Like (SWPL) types*.

I'm always amazed at how emotionally appealing to SWPLs will let you get away with anything. Target does all of the same things that make people angry at Walmart. IKEA is the biggest corporate tax evader in the world. Trader Joe's was partially founded by someone who fought for the Nazis (OK, that's a bit mean - he served in the Wehrmacht, not the Waffen SS and formed a different company before the rise of Aldi - but if SWPLs hated TJs you better believe they'd use that against them).

But since Nestle still makes crappy coffee and milk chocolate that don't feed their sense of elitism, they still get grief over the African baby formula scandal.

*also has that really clever shopping cart escalator so it can use urban locations

Amen brother. Wal-Mart wages and benefits are inline with other discount retailers. Btw before someone mentions Costco that's apple and oranges.


I've always had a feeling that CostCo is able to get much more productivity out of each worker since everything is in bulk there, but I don't know enough about retail to be sure. They don't pay that money out of charity. They pay it because the nature of their business makes more money per employee than Walmart's.
 
2012-10-15 12:27:04 PM
what do you want to bet that there's two memos, this one which is probably for the press, and one more in line with how they have traditionally treated unionizing attempts
 
2012-10-15 12:28:03 PM

lordaction: CokeBear: lordaction: If unions weren't criminal organizations maybe people would like them.

Corporations, however, are paragons of virtue, and would never think of colluding or committing criminal acts to, for example, crash the economy or avoid responsibility and cover up a massive oil spill...

Way to deflect. Do you always change the subject when you are losing a discussion?


Its a relevant point. In any large organization, especially corporations or unions, there will be some bad apples. How much damage they can do is directly related to their size and power. At this point in history, corporations are hundreds of times larger and more powerful than unions, and the damage they do to society is proportional. If we ever get to the point where unions approach the size and power of corporations, it might be time to become concerned with their power, until then its not really a relevant point.
 
2012-10-15 12:29:02 PM
Yeah, I just re-read my last comment and realize what I did there after I hit Add Comment. Should have previewed and worded that last part differently.
 
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