so ive been doing it wrong?

Good article!
Hopefully Al Gore will read this and change his ways.

Next article "In winter you don't need air conditioning"

Nefarious: Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

It's also a vicious cycle. People go green forcing utility to raise rates which then forces more people to go green etc.

and the vicious cycle will continue until everyone is powered solely by the solar panels on the roof and/or a backyard windmill, putting the coal, natural gas and nuke plants out of business. What's the downside with this plan? (If you answer contains the word "jobs", my next question is about who builds the windmills & solar panels)

/I'm ok with this.jpg
//Everyone still connected to a grid acting as backup for each other
///OMG Socialism!
////I'm ok with that too
//slashies!

Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

That's why I troll republicans into not going green

thisiszombocom: so ive been doing it wrong?



/Do not pass Go, do not collect $200

Ric Romero provides a valuable service in the form of news for the utterly clueless.

WordsnCollision: thisiszombocom: so ive been doing it wrong?
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/Do not pass Go, do not collect $200

That house looks well-insulated. I'm going to start boarding up my windows right now. The six months of winter is almost here.

cryinoutloud: WordsnCollision: thisiszombocom: so ive been doing it wrong?
[makezineblog.files.wordpress.com image 520x359]
/Do not pass Go, do not collect $200

That house looks well-insulated. I'm going to start boarding up my windows right now. The six months of winter is almost here.

Green on the outside, pink on the inside.

/Which is how I like my women.

And why are there so many songs about rainbows?

CokeBear: Nefarious: Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

It's also a vicious cycle. People go green forcing utility to raise rates which then forces more people to go green etc.

and the vicious cycle will continue until everyone is powered solely by the solar panels on the roof and/or a backyard windmill, putting the coal, natural gas and nuke plants out of business. What's the downside with this plan? (If you answer contains the word "jobs", my next question is about who builds the windmills & solar panels)

/I'm ok with this.jpg
//Everyone still connected to a grid acting as backup for each other
///OMG Socialism!
////I'm ok with that too
//slashies!

Solar panels will never put the big boys out of business, the logistics of power storage & distro make panels a bad solution for your supply.

We *are* getting more power-hungry though, and panels are great at supplying the energy required by industry during the day. Nuke plants aren't going anywhere by virtue of their supplying the power for prime time TV and dinner cooking. Coal plants will probably be gone within 50 years as smart green lobbying lays bare the unavoidable realities of coal fire gennies - more nuke contamination than a goddamn nuke plant, all kinds of toxic crap into the atmo & water, and the very real, very awful ecological costs of coal mining.

Uranium mining isn't pretty, but with fuel reclamation and modern mining techniques it's a hell of a lot less destructive over the life-cycle of an operational plant.

as long as everyone doesn't do it, because then they'll just raise the prices per usage of electricity, water, etc. because the system still needs to be economical. (they need to pay their employees, maintain the infrastructure, etc.---- not that much of the cost is actually "the coal used for producing the electricity" etc.)

LordOfThePings: And why are there so many songs about rainbows?

And also, It ain't easy being Green...

SoupJohnB: LordOfThePings: And why are there so many songs about rainbows?

And also, It ain't easy being Green...

Personally, I hope that something better comes along.

Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

And that works for the utility as long as it remains a monopoly. Unfortunately for them, if they jack rates due to declining demand, it's going to make things like solar and wind more affordable by comparison. That solution is less viable for water, maybe, but you still may see more people installing gray water systems. I've even had a few relatives move way out to the boonies because they discovered they could drill their own artesian well and get water cleaner than the municipal well.

Bored Horde: Uranium mining isn't pretty, but with fuel reclamation and modern mining techniques it's a hell of a lot less destructive over the life-cycle of an operational plant.

There are also alternatives to uranium for nuclear power. Thorium is a big one. Supposed to be safer too.

Nefarious: Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

It's also a vicious cycle. People go green forcing utility to raise rates which then forces more people to go green etc.

Utility companies are already starting doing this kind of thing.

Some are doing this solar lease program, where you can lease the PVs, install it, then get a reduction on your electricity bill.

What the utility companies don't tell you is that you're also paying them to put electricity back into the grid.

I'd love to BUY a solar array, but when it takes 20-25 years to get some ROI, it doesn't make sense.

Most people don't realize that by buying solar panels to put on your house (for utility bill discounts) all they're doing is investing in a commodity market. One that has an extremely bad return because of how poorly the utility companies refund.

Link

It will only ever take off in the US if the government starts offering tax breaks or such.

Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

It depends. Power companies then don't have to invest in new plants to meet increased demand keeping costs lower.

wippit: Bored Horde: Uranium mining isn't pretty, but with fuel reclamation and modern mining techniques it's a hell of a lot less destructive over the life-cycle of an operational plant.

There are also alternatives to uranium for nuclear power. Thorium is a big one. Supposed to be safer too.

Pebble bed reactors are probably the way forward. Thorium is neat but is still a very immature tech.

What the f*ck am I going to do now with 200 gallons of "placid lime", huh?

Answer that one, Sciency..McScience.

theorellior: Well, that will only last so many years before enough people have this same bright idea and the Tragedy of the Commons rears its ugly head again.

It's already happening. Most of those sinkholes we hear about in Florida are caused by depletion of the water table so that the land caves in. In dryer areas, the water table has gone down so far in a lot of places that it isn't economically feasible to drill a well. Every well has to be permitted, you can't just go out and drill because you bought a piece of land. And sometimes you just don't get that permit.

cryinoutloud: theorellior: Well, that will only last so many years before enough people have this same bright idea and the Tragedy of the Commons rears its ugly head again.

It's already happening. Most of those sinkholes we hear about in Florida are caused by depletion of the water table so that the land caves in. In dryer areas, the water table has gone down so far in a lot of places that it isn't economically feasible to drill a well. Every well has to be permitted, you can't just go out and drill because you bought a piece of land. And sometimes you just don't get that permit.

Although the Florida Gov (good old "Lex"), his cabinet officials and the GOP-dominated Legislature think that any sort of "permitting" in the environmental sense is just wrong. Drilling wells create jobs, right? And while they may not change the state statutes right away, they're working on it, overtime.

<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7380780/80005479#c80005479" target="_blank">theorellior</a>:</b> <i>Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

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So you're the one that chose to buy green energy from the power company? They will happily charge you more today for renewable energy sources.

Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

That you, Ric?

theorellior: Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

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Yes, we know that 2/3 of the mindset behind the 'go green' movement is to make energy costs sky high. You didn't have to remind us that 'you're okay' with it.

Nefarious: Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

It's also a vicious cycle. People go green forcing utility to raise rates which then forces more people to go green etc.

It certainly doesn't work like that. Power companies tend to encourage 'greener' consumption because the higher the growth rate of energy use, the more they have build new coal plants (or, even more expensive, gas, solar, or wind operations) which are very expensive to build. Some utility companies in my area with PAY out of their own pocket for your old, poorly insulated house to be renovated to update the insulation and introduce energy-conserving technology. Source - the guy our local utility company who oversees this insulation/renovation/greening process.

That aside, you're forgetting the basic supply-and-demand. Lower quantity demanded for a thing leads, all else controlled for, to a lower price.

It's increased demand for something that leads to price increases. That should be fairly intuitive. I'll leave you to Google if you need more explanation - I've got immediate plans to drink a glass of bourbon and watch some Battlestar Galactica.

Remember when CFLs used to last more than 6 months?

Endive Wombat: The problem with a large portion of the population going green that as customers spend less on utility bills, the Utilities then lose money then have to raise rates to compensate for the lost revenue.

True. The worst is solar, because it produces energy when households are running their air conditioners. This has been a gold mine for the utilities for decades.

does it mean getting high??

Save $150 to $200 a month in electricity in SoCal? My bill last month was $29, and projected next month to be $24. I hope this means SoCal Edison will now be paying me.

"Going Green" does not refer to the color you paint your house, but the process of changing one's lifestyle for the safety and benefit of in order to make yourself look like you really care about the environment.

Conspicuous environmentalism is annoying. Amazing how many people put solar panels on the shaded side of their house because it's more visible.

Nefarious: It's also a vicious virtuous cycle. People go green forcing utility to raise rates which then forces more people to go green etc.

Fixed that for you.