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(ABC)   New York jail disarms suspected terrorist   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 87
    More: Asinine, New York, Federal Bureau of Prisons, Masri  
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8080 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Oct 2012 at 5:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-13 07:01:00 PM
www.barnesandnoble.com
"I wonder if he ever wiped his ass with the wrong hand?"
 
2012-10-13 07:02:40 PM
Aaaaand finally,



You know who else was a serious risk with his prosthetic limbs?

www.calbuzz.com
 
2012-10-13 07:05:20 PM

Relatively Obscure: Gyrfalcon: While the owner of the prosthetic arm may be the nicest guy in the world, that doesn't prevent some other asshole from grabbing the arm and using it as a weapon, which prison officials also have to consider. There isn't an easy answer here, short of keeping the suspect in isolation--which is ALSO a violation of his rights, by the way. If anyone can come up with a good way to let him keep his prosthetics in such a way that he is not at risk by having them, other inmates are not at risk by his having them, staff are not at risk by his having them, and other inmates cannot take them and put others at risk...I'd love to hear their ideas, because I can't think of any.

Protective custody often involves segregation, which should keep an inmate isolated from other inmates (not staff). As for staff... yeah. It would be trickier for staff, which is why I'd be interested to see what his behavior has been like. He's apparently allowed to have them during some of the day, as it is, anyway.

I'm not convinced that the jail isn't doing the best thing that they can do in this unfortunate situation; I just think it definitely deserves some thought, because it's a shiatty thing to have to surrender your hands at the end of every day.


There just isn't a good answer. An inmate can be a really really nice guy on the surface, and be planning something the whole time: That was how Ted Bundy got away the first time, by developing a record of model behavior and cooperation with the guards and courtroom personnel, so that the judge was persuaded that he didn't need leg irons and handcuffs while doing research in the law library. A few days later he was out the window. So now the corrections officers can't assume that, just because this guy is being all nice and cooperative and compliant, that he should be allowed to have his admittedly weapon-like prosthetic arms with their metal hooks on one end because one outcome of letting him have them is the possible death of another inmate or staff. Sure, it's possible that one outcome is perfectly benign--but they can't take the chance.

It's a situation that happens so rarely nobody thinks about it till it happens, and then everyone has to run around going "Now what do we do?!?" which is kind of too bad; but there you go.
 
2012-10-13 07:11:40 PM

TV's Vinnie: I feel a complete lack of giving a f*ck about this creep's plight. He was an obnoxious, swaggering bastard in the UK who was up to no good and he took advantage of the limp-dicked system in the UK, and now he's getting a hard, hard lesson that we don't put up with bullsh*t like his on this side of the pond.

Enjoy your waterboarding, asshat!


Since the rule of law is meaningless in America, enjoy YOUR waterboarding when its your turn. Hell, I'll be over with mah stolen bukkit.
 
2012-10-13 07:13:21 PM

Amos Quito: 4. Congrats on finding an illustrative picture of what a "hands-free Ayrab terr-rist" might look like


Um, that is the guy the article is about.

And drop the "Ayrab terr-rist" schtick. It makes you sound....oh, I see.
 
2012-10-13 07:15:48 PM

fredbox: TV's Vinnie: I feel a complete lack of giving a f*ck about this creep's plight. He was an obnoxious, swaggering bastard in the UK who was up to no good and he took advantage of the limp-dicked system in the UK, and now he's getting a hard, hard lesson that we don't put up with bullsh*t like his on this side of the pond.

Enjoy your waterboarding, asshat!

Since the rule of law is meaningless in America, enjoy YOUR waterboarding when its your turn. Hell, I'll be over with mah stolen bukkit.


You're a walrus?
 
2012-10-13 07:18:38 PM

Gyrfalcon: There just isn't a good answer. An inmate can be a really really nice guy on the surface, and be planning something the whole time:


I know. I was in corrections for some years.

That was how Ted Bundy got away the first time, by developing a record of model behavior and cooperation with the guards and courtroom personnel, so that the judge was persuaded that he didn't need leg irons and handcuffs while doing research in the law library. A few days later he was out the window. So now the corrections officers can't assume that, just because this guy is being all nice and cooperative and compliant, that he should be allowed to have his admittedly weapon-like prosthetic arms with their metal hooks on one end because one outcome of letting him have them is the possible death of another inmate or staff. Sure, it's possible that one outcome is perfectly benign--but they can't take the chance.

Actually, at least where I worked, we take behavior-based chances all of the time, especially regarding allowed types of property and allowed access to tools, etc.


Gyrfalcon: It's a situation that happens so rarely nobody thinks about it till it happens, and then everyone has to run around going "Now what do we do?!?" which is kind of too bad; but there you go.


Pretty much.
 
2012-10-13 07:26:47 PM
TV's Vinnie: I feel a complete lack of giving a f*ck about this creep's plight. He was an obnoxious, swaggering bastard in the UK who was up to no good and he took advantage of the limp-dicked system in the UK, and now he's getting a hard, hard lesson that we don't put up with bullsh*t like his on this side of the pond.
Enjoy your waterboarding, asshat!


Exactly true.

Normally I'm against extraditing people from the the UK to the US as it often seems to be abused by attention local DAs and the like, but this guy I'm really pleased to see being treated like this.
He's a complete git; ungrateful, backstabbing, shiatstirring, terrorist apologist who quite possibly lost his hands and eye making bombs in a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan. He's spawned a bunch of criminal bigots who, like himself, are leeches who are a drain on the dole and public funds of the country that has fed, sheltered and given them safe haven.

*Breathes out*
 
2012-10-13 07:59:43 PM
Jeremy Schneider, the lawyer who represented Mustafa in court this past week, complained outside court that the daily removal of his client's arms is a problem.

"He has use of them for a certain part of the day but not long enough to allow him to function the way he should function," Schneider said. "As you can well imagine, he's not happy he's in a situation like this."


I say FARK him. Let him go without being able to wipe his ass until he gets his props back. If that is a "problem", then he should do shiat that will get him incarcerated on a daily basis.  Besides... why would he want to wipe his arse with a hook? I say he's getting the benefit of less opportunity to injure himself.
 
2012-10-13 08:02:40 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com

See you at the party, Mustafa. 
 
2012-10-13 08:14:14 PM

CasperImproved: I say FARK him.


Nice to see we have another person who believes in the rule of law so much.
 
2012-10-13 08:19:48 PM

WhyteRaven74: CasperImproved: I say FARK him.

Nice to see we have another person who believes in the rule of law so much.


What law is being violated again?

You do realize that people who have prosthetics take them off at night when they go to bed, right? They don't wear them 24/7.

Why is a guard going to allow an inmate to have an edged weapon in his cell at night, again?

/that's like saying a prisoner's rights are being violated if a toothbrush is taken away after they sharpen the end to a shiv.
 
2012-10-13 08:22:26 PM
A few points to make here.
1. The jail had nothing to do with him missing his arms
2. Prosthetic arms are not very functional, he's not playing a piano or juggling with those things. He's really not missing a while lot of function without the prosthetics
3. Safety and common sense come before your precious little feelings.

Just because he matter terrible choices in life, he does not have the right to put other people's lives in danger
 
2012-10-13 08:23:26 PM

ethics-gradient: TV's Vinnie: I feel a complete lack of giving a f*ck about this creep's plight. He was an obnoxious, swaggering bastard in the UK who was up to no good and he took advantage of the limp-dicked system in the UK, and now he's getting a hard, hard lesson that we don't put up with bullsh*t like his on this side of the pond.
Enjoy your waterboarding, asshat!

Exactly true.

Normally I'm against extraditing people from the the UK to the US as it often seems to be abused by attention local DAs and the like, but this guy I'm really pleased to see being treated like this.
He's a complete git; ungrateful, backstabbing, shiatstirring, terrorist apologist who quite possibly lost his hands and eye making bombs in a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan. He's spawned a bunch of criminal bigots who, like himself, are leeches who are a drain on the dole and public funds of the country that has fed, sheltered and given them safe haven.

*Breathes out*


I've probably not posted a comment on fark for 5 years - however this is so true. The guy is scum bag who wanted to deprive people of their lives and now we're supposed to be worried because he's inconvenienced? FARK HIM!
 
2012-10-13 08:27:59 PM
I'm having a difficult time caring about his issues.

*checks again*

Nope still having difficulty.

Will think about this later
 
2012-10-13 08:33:55 PM

BronyMedic: Why is a guard going to allow an inmate to have an edged weapon in his cell at night, again?


Because it allows the inmate to function.

JonPace: he does not have the right to put other people's lives in danger


He's not putting anyone's life in danger. The range of motion he has with a prosthetic isn't exactly much, plus the ends aren't sharp.

Marcintosh: Nope still having difficulty.


And another one.
 
xcv
2012-10-13 08:37:10 PM
i.imgur.com

/Disagrees
 
2012-10-13 08:39:53 PM

WhyteRaven74: Because it allows the inmate to function.


pictures.mastermarf.com

They take them off at night anyway. You're missing the point here. No one's running up to him, ripping it off, and forcing him to wallow around like a human centipede segment.

There's no imparement to his function there. He's going to sleep. When it's off, it's a weapon he can use to attack another inmate or guard, or attempt to commut suicide with. Those hooks are sharp, very sharp.

There's no violation of his rights, and no violation of the law of the United States in keeping custody of the prosthetic until morning time.
 
2012-10-13 08:42:04 PM

BronyMedic: WhyteRaven74: CasperImproved: I say FARK him.

Nice to see we have another person who believes in the rule of law so much.

What law is being violated again?

You do realize that people who have prosthetics take them off at night when they go to bed, right? They don't wear them 24/7.

Why is a guard going to allow an inmate to have an edged weapon in his cell at night, again?

/that's like saying a prisoner's rights are being violated if a toothbrush is taken away after they sharpen the end to a shiv.


WhyteRaven74: CasperImproved: I say FARK him.

Nice to see we have another person who believes in the rule of law so much.


We are not a "we". You are a ewe.
 
2012-10-13 08:46:36 PM
Cry moar, Stubby McJihad.
 
2012-10-13 09:10:19 PM
popcorn.

Need more.
 
2012-10-13 09:14:30 PM

WhyteRaven74: BronyMedic: Why is a guard going to allow an inmate to have an edged weapon in his cell at night, again?

Because it allows the inmate to function.

JonPace: he does not have the right to put other people's lives in danger

He's not putting anyone's life in danger. The range of motion he has with a prosthetic isn't exactly much, plus the ends aren't sharp.

Marcintosh: Nope still having difficulty.

And another one.


And another one - with this guys history I'm not willing to do the whole rise above everyone is a human and deserves this and that thing - again FARK HIM
 
2012-10-13 09:27:51 PM

Relatively Obscure: At least, we seem to think he was. Doesn't mean he was.


It means that federal law enforcement had to convince federal prosecutors to go to the state department to have our embassy talk to their government, providing enough evidence to convince their justice system(IE judges) to let us extradite him to over here in the states to face trial.

Given what I know the hurdles to be, it's about 10x more likely that he's guilty than a random dude up for conspiracy to commit murder.

There's a reason I didn't say guilty, instead saying 'bad boy' and 'obnoxious', and it's only partially because he hasn't been convicted yet. We don't do that sort of stuff for even fairly major crimes where we know precisely who's done it. It's just too much hassle.
 
2012-10-13 10:21:39 PM
What, the Second Amendment isn't around anymore?

HE HAS A RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS!!!
 
2012-10-13 10:36:30 PM

Bender The Offender: Amos Quito: cretinbob: If he weren't a terror suspect, they'd do the same thing


And it would still be asinine.

Why don't you regale us with your tales of working with inmates with prosthetics? Go ahead, I can tell you of 5 individual cases I've seen inmates use their prosthetics to injure another prisoner or staff. A very good friend of mine lost her eye. I have seen it first hand as the treating provider. You don't have a farking clue what you're talking about, you just want to lash out at the government and you don't give a fark about the damage that these poor helpless souls can do to nurses, social workers, lawyers, you know.. The people actually caring for them instead of being internet tough guys who spouts bullshiat becuase he's too clueless or too inured of criminal thought to stop and think for one minute about the safety of others.



Wow, that was brimming with emotion. Would you like a Kleenex?

If you don't mind, I'd like to examine a few points from the article as they relate to your passion-play, are you up to it?

FTA: "Every night, while an Egyptian Islamic preacher awaits trial on terrorism charges, jailers confiscate items he carries with him during the day that they consider to be weapons- his prosthetic arms, including one with a metal hook."

What's that? He carries them DURING THE DAY - the time when he is interacting with people like the jailers, nurses and social workers whose plight you bemoan, yet they take the away from him at NIGHT (which in jail terms likely means any time after 6 or 7 PM), when he is likely alone or isolated, and is LEAST likely to do any damage?

There goes your logic, bub.

And sorry about your friend's eye. No, seriously. Did you read the following from the article?

"One terrorism defendant being held in the lower Manhattan lockup used a sharpened comb to poke out a guard's eye in an ill-fated escape attempt in 2000."

Seems like combs can be as dangerous as prosthetic hooks - perhaps moreso, as combs are relatively easily concealed by anyone. At least you KNOW the guy with the pirate pot-holder is "armed", LOL!

"Corrections" is big business here in the US - a real job-creating industry when we really NEED job-creating industries. But while locking up more people than any "civilized" nation can mean big-bucks for the private-prison proprietors and the contractors and vendors that serve them (not to mention the government institutions), working in "corrections" can be hazardous.

Didn't anyone warn you?

In closing, I ask again where the logic is in allowing this guy to wear his "weapons" during the day, while he is interacting with others, but in prohibiting him from wearing them at "night", when he is least likely to cause injury? 

Thanks for helping me sort this out.
 
2012-10-13 10:51:31 PM

Oznog: What, the Second Amendment isn't around anymore?

HE HAS A RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS!!!



HAH!
 
2012-10-13 11:00:13 PM

clyph: Amos Quito: And it would still be asinine.

I'm pretty much at the head of the line when it comes to calling bullshiat on thugs with badges when they abuse their power, but in this case I'm (mostly) OK with this. A metal hook on a prosthetic arm IS a weapon, and I don't care if you're in jail for terrorism or jaywalking, it presents a danger to other prisoners and yourself.

They need to get him non-dangerous prosthetic arms in a very expeditious manner, and treat him with basic human dignity, but yeah until that happens allowing sharp metal hooks in the secure area is a Very Bad Idea.



Yeah, the hook-thing is kind of loco. But they're springing for "hands" to replace the hooksie.

You know, this dude has been in custody in Britain since 2004, and I have to wonder what the Brits did with this terrorizing Jeehadist while he was in their care? Did they disarm him? And why did their famous National Health system not lend him a hand? Get him off the hook, so to speak?

Anyway, the fact that they allow him use of his prosthetics during the DAY and confiscate them at NIGHT tells me that their reasons for doing so go beyond the "safety issues" that they claim.
 
2012-10-13 11:15:45 PM

BronyMedic: Bender The Offender: Why don't you regale us with your tales of working with inmates with prosthetics? Go ahead, I can tell you of 5 individual cases I've seen inmates use their prosthetics to injure another prisoner or staff. A very good friend of mine lost her eye. I have seen it first hand as the treating provider. You don't have a farking clue what you're talking about, you just want to lash out at the government and you don't give a fark about the damage that these poor helpless souls can do to nurses, social workers, lawyers, you know.. The people actually caring for them instead of being internet tough guys who spouts bullshiat becuase he's too clueless or too inured of criminal thought to stop and think for one minute about the safety of others.

My God. That's the best way I've ever heard Amos Quito described.



Wow, is that so?

I mean, I knew that most of my other critics, detractors and hecklers were pitifully pathetic, but are they really THAT bad?

;-)
 
2012-10-13 11:17:20 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Amos Quito: 4. Congrats on finding an illustrative picture of what a "hands-free Ayrab terr-rist" might look like

Um, that is the guy the article is about.

And drop the "Ayrab terr-rist" schtick. It makes you sound....oh, I see.



Like George W. Bush?
 
2012-10-14 12:06:13 AM

Amos Quito: What's that? He carries them DURING THE DAY - the time when he is interacting with people like the jailers, nurses and social workers whose plight you bemoan, yet they take the away from him at NIGHT (which in jail terms likely means any time after 6 or 7 PM), when he is likely alone or isolated, and is LEAST likely to do any damage?


Yes. He's isolated and alone. Awaiting trial. On suicide watch and intense scrutany for self-harm because of the crimes he's been accused of, and for the propensity for Islamic Fundamentalists to martyr themselves. Let's put him in a cell where he has the means now to commit suicide by using a shapened hook.

24.media.tumblr.com

I'm still failing to see here how his rights are being violated, Amos. He takes the arm off at night. They don't wear these things to bed. The prosthetic arm is taken away from him because of the sharp metal hook, and then given back to him in the morning when he gets up. He is not being denied his rights to use a prosthetic.

Amos Quito: "Corrections" is big business here in the US - a real job-creating industry when we really NEED job-creating industries. But while locking up more people than any "civilized" nation can mean big-bucks for the private-prison proprietors and the contractors and vendors that serve them (not to mention the government institutions), working in "corrections" can be hazardous.


Wow, Amos. That's quite a concern troll there.

Uh, three problems with that.

1) There is nothing against the law in terms of mitigating harm to COs while respecting the rights of the people they oversee in their custody. The idea that just because someone works in a field, that they must be exposed to as much danger as possible, is idiotic.
2) No other prisoner would be allowed to keep a weapon in their cell. Those hook-prosthetics are sharp enough to pierce someone's skin easily. This is not something being done to him specifically because he's Islamic.
3) This is not a private prison. It's a State funded jail.

Amos Quito: In closing, I ask again where the logic is in allowing this guy to wear his "weapons" during the day, while he is interacting with others, but in prohibiting him from wearing them at "night", when he is least likely to cause injury?


I'm going to go with "He's not in a closed cell where he can swing the thing like a meat-hook at people coming in, and he can't use it to pierce his throat before a CO can get into the room."
 
2012-10-14 01:17:51 AM

Amos Quito: So who gets the job of wiping his ass?

/asswipes


Whatever the solution, it has to be better than using a sharp hook.
 
2012-10-14 02:18:33 AM
Release him back to his brethren. But first brainwash him to believe he's the greatest bomb maker ever and at the same time make sure he isn't.
 
2012-10-14 02:23:19 AM
t2.gstatic.com

Give him a clipboard and send him to Korea, Dag nabbit!
 
2012-10-14 08:36:21 AM
TFB stumpy. Sucks to be you.
 
2012-10-14 01:06:00 PM
Better yet, why are we trying terror suspects in a civilian court???
 
2012-10-14 05:53:49 PM
massfeud: Release him back to his brethren. But first brainwash him to believe he's the greatest bomb maker ever and at the same time make sure he isn't.

I think it was that exaggerated sense of his own skill with bombs that turned him into fundamentalist Islam's answer to Captain Hook in the first place.
 
2012-10-15 05:11:16 PM

OhioExPat: The guy is scum bag who wanted to deprive people of their lives and now we're supposed to be worried because he's inconvenienced?


Yes.

Because if one person - especially one who has not yet been convicted of a crime - can be mistreated or abused while in custody, anyone can be. It's not for HIS benefit, it is for OUR benefit.

The humane treatment of prisoners, even farking evil guilty-as-shiat ones, is what makes us a civilized nation. It's an object lesson that THEY'RE the animals and WE'RE the civilized human beings. If you want to keep the moral high ground as one of the good guys, you can't go around acting like one of the bad guys.
 
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