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(New York Daily News)   Now that we civilized the land the Onondaga Indian Tribe of New York is fighting to reclaim 2.5 million acres, including Binghamton, Oswego, Syracuse and Watertown   (nydailynews.com) divider line 143
    More: Asinine, Watertown, Binghamton, Onondaga Indian Tribe, Onondaga Nation, Syracuse, Onondaga, New York, Central New York  
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4791 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Oct 2012 at 1:55 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-13 10:25:38 AM  
Why the hell would anyone want Watertown?
 
2012-10-13 11:31:26 AM  

SilentStrider: Why the hell would anyone want Watertown?


The Oneida Community?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-13 12:15:31 PM  
The Seneca tribe also wants land back and has been billing New York for tolls it charges drivers who use the Thruway through their claimed territory.
 
2012-10-13 12:16:42 PM  

Diogenes: SilentStrider: Why the hell would anyone want Watertown?

The Oneida Community?


I've been to Watertown, and am heading to Oswego in a couple hours for a friends wedding. Trust me, nobody wants that area.
 
2012-10-13 12:19:15 PM  
Indian Wars II: Lawyer Boogaloo
 
2012-10-13 01:30:34 PM  

SilentStrider: Why the hell would anyone want Watertown Binghamton?


Other than the spiedies that is.
As long as I get the tax exemption, or they pay me well, I don't care.
 
2012-10-13 01:57:18 PM  
"Onon, onan- not gonna live here anymore."
 
2012-10-13 01:57:23 PM  
In before Lone Waddy.jpg?
 
2012-10-13 01:58:30 PM  
Why?

Drilling rights.
 
2012-10-13 02:02:21 PM  
ummm, Fort Drum is in that area. I'm sure the military will go along with this. . .
 
2012-10-13 02:03:37 PM  
How's no grab 'ya?
 
2012-10-13 02:06:06 PM  
Well you can't have the land but we do have these sweet blankets right over here you can just take.
 
2012-10-13 02:07:46 PM  
John Redcorn inconsolable.
 
2012-10-13 02:07:48 PM  
Onondaga!? Slowly I turned... step by step...
 
2012-10-13 02:08:47 PM  

enik: How's no grab 'ya?


How does valid treaty grab you?
 
2012-10-13 02:10:04 PM  

whither_apophis: Onondaga!? Slowly I turned... step by step...


...INCH BY INCH!
 
2012-10-13 02:10:22 PM  
I am getting so damed sick and tired of all of this crap.

You all lost the war against civilization. Please either acclimate into our, the victors, society, or go off into a little corner and just die. Go away. Stop whining that every mound of dirt that's more than a foot tall is 'sacred' to you. Stop pretending that the land you forced OTHER indians out of has 'always been a spiritual heartland to our people'. Stop claiming that just because you're 1/10000000'th indian that you have 'special rights'. Stop pretending that you're not a conquered people.

The reservation system was a result of our bigotry towards native americans, and it's continued existance only perpetuates the cultural differences and divisions.
 
2012-10-13 02:10:37 PM  

2wolves: enik: How's no grab 'ya?

How does valid treaty grab you?


Oh, wait-- you're serious.
 
2012-10-13 02:12:37 PM  
Let the UN settle this. They did such a good job with those other guys. We never hear from them. C'mon, Onondagas, claim ancestral holy ground. take what the UN partitions and then seize a couple of extra square miles 'for security'. Then, move in more tribes and expand in to disputed areas. Develope your own trade, laws and get recognized by a 'friendly' nation who will give you a couple a billion a year to buy weapons.

Then a miracle will happen and peace and happiness will fall upon the land.
 
2012-10-13 02:13:35 PM  
I say give it to 'em and cut federal/state funded programs to those areas to ease the tax burden on the State.
 
2012-10-13 02:14:14 PM  
capital-flow-watch.net

To expose the "noble lie", as these lands were stolen through force or fraud from the Indian tribes. And you cannot build a moral society if its foundation is built on immoral actions.


/Just a hunch.
 
2012-10-13 02:14:16 PM  

Decados: I am getting so damed sick and tired of all of this crap.

You all lost the war against civilization. Please either acclimate into our, the victors, society, or go off into a little corner and just die. Go away. Stop whining that every mound of dirt that's more than a foot tall is 'sacred' to you. Stop pretending that the land you forced OTHER indians out of has 'always been a spiritual heartland to our people'. Stop claiming that just because you're 1/10000000'th indian that you have 'special rights'. Stop pretending that you're not a conquered people.

The reservation system was a result of our bigotry towards native americans, and it's continued existance only perpetuates the cultural differences and divisions.


You sound white.
 
2012-10-13 02:15:02 PM  
Indian givers.
 
2012-10-13 02:15:18 PM  

Diogenes: SilentStrider: Why the hell would anyone want Watertown?

The Oneida Community?


I love "That Thing You Do".

wolfman on bass

spartacus?
 
2012-10-13 02:15:59 PM  
No Indian alive today had their land stolen, and no white man alive today stole said land. I'd say it's time to get over it and learn to make your own way in the world. Just like the rest of us.
 
2012-10-13 02:16:21 PM  

Mantour: To expose the "noble lie", as these lands were stolen through force or fraud from the Indian tribes. And you cannot build a moral society if its foundation is built on immoral actions.


Except that the majority of the land wasn't in use due to massive die offs before large scale European settlement even began.

/also the land was already civilized and cultivated, natch
 
2012-10-13 02:16:38 PM  

Cybe: I say give it to 'em and cut federal/state funded programs to those areas to ease the tax burden on the State.


American Indians including the Seneca nation receive fed. funds. They are Americans.
 
2012-10-13 02:16:57 PM  
Well, considering that Europeans stole the land from them in the first place. And that they were already thought of as "civilized" 350 yrs ago - even by the European invaders' standards. And that the US Govt has broken every treaty they've ever made with them - Maybe they have a right to sue to get back what is theirs.
 
2012-10-13 02:17:34 PM  

johnryan51: Cybe: I say give it to 'em and cut federal/state funded programs to those areas to ease the tax burden on the State.

American Indians including the Seneca nation receive fed. funds. They are Americans.


If they're so American why do they want their land back?
 
2012-10-13 02:17:34 PM  

Decados: I am getting so damed sick and tired of all of this crap.

You all lost the war against civilization. Please either acclimate into our, the victors, society, or go off into a little corner and just die. Go away. Stop whining that every mound of dirt that's more than a foot tall is 'sacred' to you. Stop pretending that the land you forced OTHER indians out of has 'always been a spiritual heartland to our people'. Stop claiming that just because you're 1/10000000'th indian that you have 'special rights'. Stop pretending that you're not a conquered people.

The reservation system was a result of our bigotry towards native americans, and it's continued existance only perpetuates the cultural differences and divisions.


Shame that neither of our countries will ever have a discussion this frank on this subject. Not in total agreement with you on this, but it's fast coming time where there's going to need to be a major change in the relationship. And it's not going to be pretty.
 
2012-10-13 02:18:08 PM  
t3.gstatic.com

What's their hole doin' in my state?

/If my state was Missouri - which it isn't
//49 stars forever!
 
2012-10-13 02:22:14 PM  
Mantour:To expose the "noble lie", as these lands were stolen through force or fraud from the Indian tribes. And you cannot build a moral society if its foundation is built on immoral actions.

I'd be curious to find out what society has been built on a foundation of moral actions.
 
2012-10-13 02:25:16 PM  
So, does this mean the Onondaga have a plan to clean up the three large superfund sites on that land claim without federal dollars?

Once of them was, until recently, the most polluted lake in the world. It hasn't gotten that much better, it's just that Lake Karachay got much worse. 

(Technically, two of the Superfund sites are both Onondaga Lake, the other is in Fulton.)
 
2012-10-13 02:28:22 PM  

Decados: I am getting so damed sick and tired of all of this crap.

You all lost the war against civilization. Please either acclimate into our, the victors, society, or go off into a little corner and just die. Go away. Stop whining that every mound of dirt that's more than a foot tall is 'sacred' to you. Stop pretending that the land you forced OTHER indians out of has 'always been a spiritual heartland to our people'. Stop claiming that just because you're 1/10000000'th indian that you have 'special rights'. Stop pretending that you're not a conquered people.

The reservation system was a result of our bigotry towards native americans, and it's continued existance only perpetuates the cultural differences and divisions.


They are; they are suing for breech of contract. What you are complaining about is that they are using the white man's tool to roger the white man.

You: Be like us white people; stab others inthe back and use legalistic gooble-de-gook to rape the other guys silly!
Them: Well ... if you insist: we signed this; your designated representatives signed this; you haven't been honoring the deal; we're gonna sue you for breach of contract; bend over pretty-boy
You: Noooooooooooooooooo! That's not faaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !
 
2012-10-13 02:30:27 PM  

LabGrrl: So, does this mean the Onondaga have a plan to clean up the three large superfund sites on that land claim without federal dollars?


Oh, the feds can keep that part. Consider it a "blanket of friendship" for Great White Father to seal the deal
 
2012-10-13 02:30:50 PM  
Actually lake Onondaga has gotten much better in recent years, still a long way to go but Mercury levels are dropping faster than anticipated.
 
2012-10-13 02:31:11 PM  
Fight harder next time.
 
2012-10-13 02:31:27 PM  
Do cases like these ever pop up in Canada or Mexico?
 
2012-10-13 02:31:51 PM  
The land was taken by right of conquest. If they want it back, they're welcome to try reconquering it.
 
2012-10-13 02:32:09 PM  
They can have Oswego. Spent a month there. Trust me, the country would come out the winner if it gave up Oswego.
 
2012-10-13 02:33:08 PM  
I used to be stationed at Fort Drum. I remember there being some not-so-nice things spraypainted on the billboards about whitey. Beautiful country though.
 
2012-10-13 02:33:44 PM  
Who is this 'we' you're speaking of, subby?
 
2012-10-13 02:34:09 PM  
What's the most popular red w(h)ine in New York?
 
2012-10-13 02:34:17 PM  

phalamir: Decados: I am getting so damed sick and tired of all of this crap.

You all lost the war against civilization. Please either acclimate into our, the victors, society, or go off into a little corner and just die. Go away. Stop whining that every mound of dirt that's more than a foot tall is 'sacred' to you. Stop pretending that the land you forced OTHER indians out of has 'always been a spiritual heartland to our people'. Stop claiming that just because you're 1/10000000'th indian that you have 'special rights'. Stop pretending that you're not a conquered people.

The reservation system was a result of our bigotry towards native americans, and it's continued existance only perpetuates the cultural differences and divisions.

They are; they are suing for breech of contract. What you are complaining about is that they are using the white man's tool to roger the white man.

You: Be like us white people; stab others inthe back and use legalistic gooble-de-gook to rape the other guys silly!
Them: Well ... if you insist: we signed this; your designated representatives signed this; you haven't been honoring the deal; we're gonna sue you for breach of contract; bend over pretty-boy
You: Noooooooooooooooooo! That's not faaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !


maybe they should have spoken up sooner.

maybe we should find out how many people in this tribe are left and their percentage of tribal blood.

maybe they should shut up and find a life.

maybe they should be happy that they were not completely wiped out long ago.
 
2012-10-13 02:35:53 PM  

Decados: I am getting so damed sick and tired of all of this crap.

You all lost the war against civilization. Please either acclimate into our, the victors, society, or go off into a little corner and just die. Go away. Stop whining that every mound of dirt that's more than a foot tall is 'sacred' to you. Stop pretending that the land you forced OTHER indians out of has 'always been a spiritual heartland to our people'. Stop claiming that just because you're 1/10000000'th indian that you have 'special rights'. Stop pretending that you're not a conquered people.

The reservation system was a result of our bigotry towards native americans, and it's continued existance only perpetuates the cultural differences and divisions.


'You lost, get over it' didn't work during the Bush Administration and it ain't gonna work now. Ask the Senecas how well that works. They signed a 100-year lease granting what became Salamanca, which Salamanca proceeded to completely forget about. The Seneca didn't. When the lease ran out in the 90's, Salamanca started up with pretty much the exact same line of argument you just used. The Seneca's response was basically 'A deal's a deal'.

The Seneca got the land. And they do actively evict people who won't play by their rules.

You want to beat the Onondagas back? Telling them to go away ain't gonna work. You better beat them in the courtroom.
 
2012-10-13 02:38:20 PM  

Techhell: Mantour:To expose the "noble lie", as these lands were stolen through force or fraud from the Indian tribes. And you cannot build a moral society if its foundation is built on immoral actions.

I'd be curious to find out what society has been built on a foundation of moral actions.


If I remember my class in classical philosophy, in 1997, no society has ever been built on moral actions. However, the goal of any civilization is to build moral men, moral citizen. Hence the requirement of "noble lies" : "noble" because they are aimed at creating moral men and "lies" because they are not true, historically.

The easiest and probably the most known, application of a noble lie is the political process of ting the land to its people: "Land of the (you name it)". As such, people will feel that their lands is theirs and that the immoral actions that happened, in order to conquer that land are therefore excused, or I such say, justified.
 
2012-10-13 02:40:09 PM  

dforkus: Actually lake Onondaga has gotten much better in recent years, still a long way to go but Mercury levels are dropping faster than anticipated.


It's actually a lot clearer, but if you removed all the mercury in the lake, the PCPs and ton a day of sediment from the tully mudboils would *still* make it the second most polluted lake in the world.

And I stand corrected, it's *12* superfund sites on Onondaga Lake,
 
2012-10-13 02:40:16 PM  

Gosling: Decados: I am getting so damed sick and tired of all of this crap.

You all lost the war against civilization. Please either acclimate into our, the victors, society, or go off into a little corner and just die. Go away. Stop whining that every mound of dirt that's more than a foot tall is 'sacred' to you. Stop pretending that the land you forced OTHER indians out of has 'always been a spiritual heartland to our people'. Stop claiming that just because you're 1/10000000'th indian that you have 'special rights'. Stop pretending that you're not a conquered people.

The reservation system was a result of our bigotry towards native americans, and it's continued existance only perpetuates the cultural differences and divisions.

'You lost, get over it' didn't work during the Bush Administration and it ain't gonna work now. Ask the Senecas how well that works. They signed a 100-year lease granting what became Salamanca, which Salamanca proceeded to completely forget about. The Seneca didn't. When the lease ran out in the 90's, Salamanca started up with pretty much the exact same line of argument you just used. The Seneca's response was basically 'A deal's a deal'.

The Seneca got the land. And they do actively evict people who won't play by their rules.

You want to beat the Onondagas back? Telling them to go away ain't gonna work. You better beat them in the courtroom.


or the battlefield
 
2012-10-13 02:40:28 PM  
Hence the reason why, Plato's Republic is not a democracy but a society ruled by "philosopher-kings"
 
2012-10-13 02:43:01 PM  

chuckufarlie: or the battlefield


Unless you're advocating driving tanks onto the reservation, get serious.
 
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