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(Reuters)   FTC rumored to be close to slapping Google with an antitrust suit. Apple and Microsoft to sue for copyright infringement   (reuters.com) divider line 24
    More: Interesting, Federal Trade Commission, Google, Microsoft, lawsuits, Trojan horse, The Practice  
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1282 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Oct 2012 at 11:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 06:02:20 PM
Yep I'm sure this will in no way end with Google agreeing to closer cooperation with government entities in exchange for leniency.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-12 09:12:32 PM
Apple and Microsoft to sue for copyright infringement

That would be patent infringement. Monopoly and antitrust suits are business methods and patentable. You could only copyright the creative aspects of a particular instance of anti-competitive behavior.
 
2012-10-12 10:06:42 PM
Wow. Flower delivery companies sure have a lot of power these days.
 
2012-10-12 10:37:17 PM
When Romney gets elected the FTC will drop the whole thing.
 
2012-10-12 11:41:43 PM
What lawsuit? I don't see any lawsuit mentioned when I google it.
 
2012-10-13 12:32:36 AM
Try bing it....
 
2012-10-13 12:42:05 AM

Bucky Katt: When Romney gets elected the FTC will drop the whole thing.


How so? The google allows the 47% to organize against the 1%. Can't have that in Rmoney's Amerikkka
 
2012-10-13 01:11:19 AM
If only there were other search engines on the internet!
 
2012-10-13 01:31:39 AM
Imagine that google puts advertisers at the top of results list or steers you to their shopping or travel tags?
 
2012-10-13 01:43:37 AM
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-10-13 02:56:01 AM
The thing about the Internet is that no matter how dominant you are or how killer your app, all it takes is one company with one superior product and right back down you go.
 
2012-10-13 03:07:10 AM

Gosling: The thing about the Internet is that no matter how dominant you are or how killer your app, all it takes is one company with one superior product enough money to sue you into oblivion and right back down you go.


It doesn't matter whether or not you offer a better product. Once companies reach a certain size, they undermine their competition, not by offering better products or services, but by simply preventing them from existing. That's how the "free market" naturally works.
 
2012-10-13 07:46:01 AM
As a small business owner who has to deal with all of google's nonsense to try and get to the top of the search result listings, all I have to say is:

fark google, fark 'em hard, fark 'em up the ass.
 
2012-10-13 07:52:02 AM

bingo the psych-o: If only there were other search engines on the internet!


Came here to say this.

/Also other web-based email systems, translaters (Babelfish), etc.
//And smartphone operating systems
///It's my birthday. I want slashies!
 
2012-10-13 09:10:21 AM

Basily Gourt: As a small business owner who has to deal with all of google's nonsense to try and get to the top of the search result listings, all I have to say is:

fark google, fark 'em hard, fark 'em up the ass.


If being at the top of Google's worldwide search lists is important to you then you are doing something wrong as a small business owner.

The only issue you should have is people listing your business as closed in Google maps, that will lessen your ranking quickly and show your business as closed whenever someone tries to find it using that feature. Google makes it too easy to list a business as closed yet really hard to have that reversed, that seems kind of stupid.
 
2012-10-13 10:10:33 AM

steamingpile: Basily Gourt: As a small business owner who has to deal with all of google's nonsense to try and get to the top of the search result listings, all I have to say is:

fark google, fark 'em hard, fark 'em up the ass.

If being at the top of Google's worldwide local search lists is important to you then you are doing something wrong as a small business owner.

The only issue you should have is people listing your business as closed in Google maps, that will lessen your ranking quickly and show your business as closed whenever someone tries to find it using that feature. Google makes it too easy to list a business as closed yet really hard to have that reversed, that seems kind of stupid.

 

I run a service business, and it is very important nowadays to at least get on the first page.

The yellow pages are dead, my website is where people find me. (At least people under 50)

It got so bad that I had to pay a guy who knew all the tricks involved in keeping you on top. Then google got wise to all the tricks, and changed the rules. It took awhile to get back on top.
 
2012-10-13 10:45:19 AM

Basily Gourt: steamingpile: Basily Gourt: As a small business owner who has to deal with all of google's nonsense to try and get to the top of the search result listings, all I have to say is:

fark google, fark 'em hard, fark 'em up the ass.

If being at the top of Google's worldwide local search lists is important to you then you are doing something wrong as a small business owner.

The only issue you should have is people listing your business as closed in Google maps, that will lessen your ranking quickly and show your business as closed whenever someone tries to find it using that feature. Google makes it too easy to list a business as closed yet really hard to have that reversed, that seems kind of stupid. 

I run a service business, and it is very important nowadays to at least get on the first page.

The yellow pages are dead, my website is where people find me. (At least people under 50)

It got so bad that I had to pay a guy who knew all the tricks involved in keeping you on top. Then google got wise to all the tricks, and changed the rules. It took awhile to get back on top.


It SHOULD be hard to get to the top of Google's rankings. They're based on popularity. If you want to get the top you need to explore other avenues of marketing until you become popular. Then you get to the top of Google's rankings. You shouldn't be able to exploit loopholes to make people think you're more popular than you actually are.
 
2012-10-13 11:12:28 AM

steamingpile: If being at the top of Google's worldwide search lists is important to you then you are doing something wrong as a small business owner.


Depends on what terms you're talking about. If I search "{some service} pittsburgh", and I offer that service in Pittsburgh, I damn well better be at the top of those search results.

rugman11: They're based on popularity.


No, they're not. They're based on a proprietary ranking algorithm that is secret. Popularity is one input to that algorithm. Further, this suit is about the fact that you can buy a top ranking. Oh, sure, you're in the "sponsored links" section, but at this point, the sponsored links are designed to blend in with the results.

bingo the psych-o: If only there were other search engines on the internet!


How does the existence of other search engines change the fact that Google is the default for 90% of my potential customers, and hence controls whether my customers find my business or not? Google's primacy as a search engine is chilling, not for the searchers, but for the potential targets of a search. That's bad for everybody but Google.

//DuckDuckGo FTW.
 
2012-10-13 04:42:59 PM
\

t3knomanser: Depends on what terms you're talking about. If I search "{some service} pittsburgh", and I offer that service in Pittsburgh, I damn well better be at the top of those search results.


Actually, no, you shouldn't unless you offer something incredibly niche and specific.
 
2012-10-13 04:43:34 PM

PonceAlyosha: \t3knomanser: Depends on what terms you're talking about. If I search "{some service} pittsburgh", and I offer that service in Pittsburgh, I damn well better be at the top of those search results.

Actually, no, you shouldn't unless you offer something incredibly niche and specific.


* Shouldn't necessarily.
 
2012-10-13 09:00:48 PM

t3knomanser: steamingpile: If being at the top of Google's worldwide search lists is important to you then you are doing something wrong as a small business owner.

Depends on what terms you're talking about. If I search "{some service} pittsburgh", and I offer that service in Pittsburgh, I damn well better be at the top of those search results.

rugman11: They're based on popularity.

No, they're not. They're based on a proprietary ranking algorithm that is secret. Popularity is one input to that algorithm. Further, this suit is about the fact that you can buy a top ranking. Oh, sure, you're in the "sponsored links" section, but at this point, the sponsored links are designed to blend in with the results.
.


Everybody knows exactly how Google's rankings work even if they don't know the exact mechanism. Your site rises in the rankings when people link to you and use that certain phrase on their website. Just because you build a site or have a business, doesn't mean that you're going to end up at the top of the rankings. You need other people to talk about you and link to your website. And, sorry, but if your business does a widely offered service, you're probably not going to get very high because the larger businesses will beat you out. You may be the best mechanic in Pittsburgh, but if I Google "oil change Pittsburgh," I'm not going to get your little shop, I'm going to get Pennzoil, Valvoline, & Jiffy Lube. That's not Google's fault, you're just not big enough to make a dent in the rankings.
 
2012-10-14 01:58:28 AM
What some people in this thread don't realize how Google works. You are a small company who is internet-only. Your customers are loyal, and they go to your website and try to avoid your competitors. How do they do this? They type it into the bar at the top of the browser.

Most people, however, type it into the search bar and not the URL bar. It defaults to Google Search. Google serves up a bunch of links. They click on the first one they see, often the one at the top of the screen. That one will be an ad. The entity that placed that ad is charged whatever they bid on each click-through.

Now, this is where it gets interesting. Your competitors can bid on YOUR name. If you are not bidding on your name on Google and you have a decent following in your area or your niche, someone else is bidding on your name. And that link at the top of the page will take your customers to your competitor's website, not yours.

My in-laws sometimes have to pay upwards of $8.00 per clickthrough on their own name because of this BS. They are the largest retailer of their particular niche product. They sell domestically and also ship to five foreign countries. They survived the dot-com bubble and the dot-com bust. Google is by far the biggest challenge they have faced. You pay to play, or someone else steals your customers.

Now, you might reason, you can simply trademark your name, your website design, etc so that someone else is prohibited from profiting off of this. And indeed that is how the law reads. Google's lawyers agree, they sent my in-laws a nice letter explaining this. It also explained that until an injunction was issued by a judge, they weren't going to do anything about it. So far nobody has been able to afford to outlast Google's law team on this issue.

Obviously they also do SEO. So do big department stores that do not carry similar products but may decide to some day. So they end up competing with the likes of Nordstrom's, Macy's and Sears on this front rather than similar small niche businesses, and they throw a LOT of money at specialist SEO companies. Even though they are "popular" they do not carry any products that compete with my in-laws. This means that they already have a leg up on the niche business that actually carries what the customer is searching for. And the same company might have a dozen links that go to a general category but lacks the specific product searched for. Boom, there's the entire front page taken up. If you don't have that paid ad and are somehow knocked out off the front page in search, your customers who are searching specifically for you may not see you on that browsing session. They may assume you went out of business or sold out, or just decide to be lazy and defer purchase indefinitely.

This is the reality of online-only retail. The rules that Google have established are NOT friendly for the small business owner at all. They WILL get their protection money through the search bar/URL bar confusion, the question is whether that money will come from your wallet or your competitors'.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-14 09:49:06 AM
BolloxReader

The latest Safari on Mac doesn't have a separate search box. If you type something that looks like a URL, you get the web page. If you type something that looks like a search, you get Google. Apple could hurt Google's business model by being liberal in what constitutes a URL. Personally I always considered addition of http: and .com to a user's input to be a bug, but I'm a programmer rather than a human.
 
2012-10-16 12:36:48 AM

BolloxReader: What some people in this thread don't realize how Google works. You are a small company who is internet-only. Your customers are loyal, and they go to your website and try to avoid your competitors. How do they do this? They type it into the bar at the top of the browser.

Most people, however, type it into the search bar and not the URL bar. It defaults to Google Search. Google serves up a bunch of links. They click on the first one they see, often the one at the top of the screen. That one will be an ad. The entity that placed that ad is charged whatever they bid on each click-through.


Which is, of course, why Google released their own browser, without a search bar.

BolloxReader: And the same company might have a dozen links that go to a general category but lacks the specific product searched for. Boom, there's the entire front page taken up.


This doesn't track. I haven't seen a Google result page 1 with all links to one domain in over a decade.
 
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