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(Billings Gazette)   SWAT team raids home seeking non-existent meth lab. Lousy homeowners upset that their daughter was burned by a flash grenade instead of grateful no one was killed   (billingsgazette.com) divider line 47
    More: Asinine, SWAT team, liver failure, grenades, Second-degree burn, homeowners, Jackie Fasching  
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9562 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Oct 2012 at 7:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-12 04:27:33 PM
11 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: "It was totally unforeseen, totally unplanned and extremely regrettable," St. John said. "We certainly did not want a juvenile, or anyone else for that matter, to get injured."

Who could possibly know that throwing a grenade at people would cause injuries? This is regrettable, but could have been avoided if these people had simply moved to another country where the police don't act like filthy animals.


It's even worse: It was a suspected meth lab. Those are known to explode with little provocation. Using a grenade without warning and when there is no resistance in the presence of a meth lab is criminal negligence.
2012-10-12 08:10:50 PM
5 votes:
I was at Fort Hunter-Liggett,, near San Luis Obispo at annual National Guard training and saw my Platoon Sergeant get wounded almost identically to the injuries in the photo provided by jigger. We were attacked by OPFORS at about 3am, and a flash-bang was thrown on his sleeping bag. He was in a hasty firing position next to it in his skivvies, saw it and believing it to be a smoke grenade, attempted to shake it off (so he didn't have to pay for his damaged sleeping bag) when it went off. His injuries were severe enough to put him in the hospital, and he couldn't return to work for another month. It also blew the hell out of his fartsack.

Flash-bangs are not small. They're basically grenades without large shrapnel. This family has a legitimate grievance.
2012-10-12 07:55:17 PM
5 votes:
St. John said investigators did plenty of homework on the residence before deciding to launch the raid but didn't know children were inside.

and

However, the officer didn't realize that there was a delay on the grenade when he tried to detonate it.

Let's see here. Non-existent meth lab, didn't know children were present, officers didn't understand how the grenade worked. Yep. Certainly sounds like they did plenty of homework.
2012-10-12 04:28:37 PM
4 votes:
"It was totally unforeseen, totally unplanned and extremely regrettable," St. John said. "We certainly did not want a juvenile, or anyone else for that matter, to get injured."

Then don't use grenades near meth labs, idiot.
2012-10-12 04:11:20 PM
4 votes:
St. John said investigators did plenty of homework on the residence before deciding to launch the raid but didn't know children were inside.

"The information that we had did not have any juveniles in the house and did not have any juveniles in the room," he said. "We generally do not introduce these disorienting devices when they're present."


Fark all of you. Your "homework" wasn't even good enough to determine if it was an actual meth house, much less whether there were children inside.


Fasching said she's considering legal action but, for now, is more concerned about her daughters

Take 'em to the farkin cleaners.

/No knock warrants are disgusting
2012-10-12 09:29:23 PM
3 votes:

Kit Fister: Cops in the 1950s:

[www.policemotorunits.com image 440x604]

Cops today:

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 566x425]

Since when did we turn loose the National Guard on the US?


When the hippies turned into yuppies, when rural and urban were abandoned in favor of suburban, when globalization changed tariffs into free trade agreements, when the boomers got off of the lawns, bought their own, and started being upset at the damn kids who had the audacity to do all the shiat they used to do.

It's profiteering by prisons and manufacturers and drug-dealers and politicians, it's scared suburbanites hiding from the people they used to be, it's a drug trade bolstered by ever-improving technology, it's a population that has been told in no uncertain terms they will never be allowed to advance and are lucky to even HAVE a job trying to find escape from a society that openly hates their youth, it's a police force of barking dogs given shiatty jobs and the only perk being fancy toys and permission to enact the occasional beating.

It's "libertarians" who support stop-and-frisk but attack wall street regulations, it's "liberals" who refuse to vote for anyone who isn't perfectly aligned with their positions, it's "independents" who choose and stick with one party no matter what that party does, it's "conservatives" who feel that if we only would go "back" to our imaginary christian nation roots and legalize lynching and blue laws again the police would suddenly be like Andy Griffith "again."
2012-10-12 08:06:11 PM
3 votes:

phrawgh: You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. While this incident is regrettable, something has to be done to bring these meth heads and dopers under control so they stop preying on our children. It may be cliche but 'if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about' applies. Apparently the police found evidence of other illegal activity anyway. Police have a hard job to do and we should support them rather than question their every move.


The sad part is that there are actually people out there who truly believe this stuff.
2012-10-12 09:57:12 PM
2 votes:

Hale-Bopp: Yeah, that poor girl is likely going to have PTSD for the rest of her life.


She'll never trust a cop, anyway. Good to learn that lesson early.
2012-10-12 08:22:00 PM
2 votes:
SWAT teams are granted exceptional weaponry and access to exceptional training and tactics. Accordingly, they should be held to an exceptional standard.

Every member of the team involved in this raid should be charged and tried for breaking and entering and felony assault.

If we're going to have assholes with heavy weaponry kicking in doors and starting gun fights in residential neighborhoods over recreational drug use, the least we could have to go with it is a reasonable measure of accountability to assure these idiots at least stick to their targets.
2012-10-12 08:03:43 PM
2 votes:

Smallberries: WHO the HELL throws a flash bang into a METH LAB?



People who've never passed high school chemistry without copying answers off their neighbor.
2012-10-12 07:58:47 PM
2 votes:
So, the proper response to a suspected meth lab is to send in SWAT and toss grenades into the house as the first course of action?

And they wonder why we think police and SWAT are assholes.
2012-10-12 07:52:09 PM
2 votes:
America's law enforcement, terrorizing one family after another, year after year after year.
2012-10-12 07:50:59 PM
2 votes:
How does a swat officer not know there is a delay on a flash bang? One of the1st things i learned in the military was how to properly toss a grenade. This is piss poor training, have they never heard of a cordon and knock? Bored small town cops is what this is.
2012-10-12 07:49:33 PM
2 votes:
So its like legitimate rape?
It's legal if the police do it?
2012-10-12 05:36:47 PM
2 votes:

serial_crusher: protip: don't live nextdoor to a meth lab.


My neighbors just returned the "Are you cooking meth in your house?" survey card I sent out, but they all checked "undecided"
2012-10-12 04:30:43 PM
2 votes:
No arrests were made during the raid and no charges have been filed, although a police spokesman said afterward that some evidence was recovered PLANTED during the search. St. John declined to release specifics . . . . . . .
2012-10-12 04:27:49 PM
2 votes:
Seriously, I hope the parents successfully sue that police department for so much that they have to sell all their military bullshiat and act like real cops again.
2012-10-12 04:23:45 PM
2 votes:
No knock raids are fu*king jackbooted Nazi bullsh*t.

Nazi bullsh*t? In my country?
2012-10-12 11:29:54 PM
1 votes:

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: We cool? Fist bump?

*Bump*


Huh, you two argued, came to see each others point of view and left on friendly terms. There's a glimmer of hope...
2012-10-12 11:22:20 PM
1 votes:
Marine1

All I know is this: there are retards out there who go and get high on ice. These people are ridiculously stupid and would not go to some government-run facility to get high, because honestly, they don't give a fark what happens when they are using. The guy who murdered those two women smoked some meth and drove to farking Edgerton, Missouri from the KC suburb of Parkville, MO. That's a 40 minute drive, which I found out by driving to the memorial service. He then sat outside the house for a few more hours until the time the sun was starting to come up so he could go inside and screw a woman who was engaged to a man who she had two children with. When things went awry, he murdered a friend of mine and her half-sister. Now there are three children who will never know their mothers.

The "decriminalization" and giving them a place to use is fine if the brand of drug user cares. This guy didn't care. Twice before he had been pulled over for driving while under the influence of alcohol. Twice. You know that "decriminalization with a place to use" concept being proposed here? He had that for alcohol. It's called a bar. He took that privilege and abused it. So, knowing that he took a decriminalized drug and used it to ill effect before, what in the hell makes you think guys like this are going to go speedfreaking in a re-purposed jail?


Screw decrim. Legalize the standard amphetamines, e.g., benzedrine/dexedrine and sell them OTC, at just above cost, and plow the profit back into treatment (it isn't like they haven't been sold OTC, before). Same with all other substances (excepting antibiotics). Then the control of such things as meth become much more manageable malignancies. Instead of farking with the innocent, fark the (mis)user. Anyone caught supplying a minor? 10yr mandatory minimum. Anyone, who, under the influence of a clinically significant amount of ANY substance (cognac/Heroin/valium, etc.) interferes with the life or liberty of a fellow citizen? minimum 10yr. mandatory sentence (plus the time for the actual crime).

If one wishes to have the wife chain one to a tree in the yard and guzzle down a fifth of Vodak? Fine. Shoot Heroin (it only costs ~10cents to produce a dose - how much do we spend to keep each dose from being used?), ok by me, just get it on with the pulmonary edema in one's own bathroom. Sure, some would die - but that's their choice - I'm not gonna tackle some whale who is eating what might be the fatal slice of pizza (oh, lock him up! He's going to take an infarct!) and don't look to me to approve of saving anyone from his/herself by farking over the rest of us.

Let me tell you about meth in Missouri. We've had a couple of 5gal. paint cans of `cook' leftovers dumped in our woods (nice toxic mess). Every week I walk the road along our property and pick up the trash out of the ditches (in boonies on a dip in the road - good place not to be seen). Had a pretty full bag of gunk that included, disposed of, `diabetic' syringes. Dep. Sheriff tools by and stops. Asks who/what/where/why (ok) then asks to look at the trash in the bag. He spies the syringes and it's `up against the car' (paraphernalia, don't ya know) . If the Sheriff, who I know, hadn't shown up the `depity' would have probably hauled me off to town. Fark this BS. Better a thousand dead junkies (than one innocent citizen being hassled, injured or killed).

/Carrie Nation is dead, get over it already
2012-10-12 11:12:51 PM
1 votes:

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: We cool? Fist bump?


*Bump*
2012-10-12 11:00:34 PM
1 votes:

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: I don't disagree with your comment about meth users and dealers, but you contradicted yourself as you claimed that you doubted the accuracy of the report that they were looking for a meth lab. Either they were, or they weren't. I'm sure the details were in the warrant. And I agree with everything that relcec said, except for calling you an asshole. He gets passionate sometimes. But these are passionate times

Again, you are assuming they were looking for a meth lab. That is what she said. Based on the description of events, they were looking for a dealer...there is nothing in that report that says they didn't find them.


No, I'm not assuming they were looking for a lab. You stated that they were not. Then you defended their actions by describing and justifying the actions required for TAKING DOWN A METH LAB. If they were not, then there was no reason to go full tactical meltdown on them. If they WERE taking down a meth lab, they DID IT WRONG. If they were NOT taking down a meth lab, they DID IT WRONG.
2012-10-12 10:21:45 PM
1 votes:

vodka: "blew the nails out of the drywall," Fasching said.

Who the fark uses nails for drywall? Screws are the norm.


Nails are cheaper. Any pre-fab home will have nails. Any place done by a contractor pinching pennies will have nails.
Screw are preferred, but certainly not the standard.
2012-10-12 10:00:01 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: Meth makes you do some farked up shiat that you probably wouldn't do if you weren't speeding your ass off.

Example:

Throw grenades into a bedroom where children are sleeping, where there is no crime being committed.
2012-10-12 09:58:22 PM
1 votes:
because if there is one thing that can easily be flushed down the toilet and destroyed forever as evidence within the short time it would take to knock, announce, and wait a few seconds for a response, it is an entire f*cking meth lab they claimed was in there.
judge, I need a no knock warrant because valuable evidence will be destroyed within the 20 seconds it takes to knock, announce and wait a reasonable amount of time for a response, so instead of giving the perp time to hit his meth lab with his disinitragtor ray gun, I'd like to throw a bunch of grenades into the home while everyone is sleeping. how about f*ck you.

people just throwing grenades into our houses. because someone might want to ingest something that someone else isn't interested in ingesting.
normal everyday insanity in america.
how are we actually dumb enough to do this to ourselves? I know we are super dim, and terrorists can be scary at times, but how did we decide this shiat was ever kosher for anyone not holding a dozen hostages or planning to blow up the world trade center?
2012-10-12 09:42:19 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: No company wants to be in charge of making a consumer product that turns people batshiat insane and removes the clarity of mind to the point that you can murder someone after one dose.


Jack Daniel's.
2012-10-12 09:37:31 PM
1 votes:

MilkIt: phrawgh: Bathia_Mapes: phrawgh: You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. While this incident is regrettable, something has to be done to bring these meth heads and dopers under control so they stop preying on our children. It may be cliche but 'if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about' applies. Apparently the police found evidence of other illegal activity anyway. Police have a hard job to do and we should support them rather than question their every move.

You do realize that if there had been a meth lab present in the home the flash grenade could have caused it to explode, right? The explosion would have very likely caused significant injury to both the family members in the home AND the police officers.

We have to win the war on drugs as the future of America and our children depend on it. As in any war there will always be innocent casualties. I do not care if there was a roach in the ash tray, the entire household should be incarcerated and receive outreach counseling from local religious organizations so these people have a chance at turning their lives around. For all we know the girl had one of those portable meth labs near her causing the burns. The police are in the middle of the investigation so they can't come out with all the facts and possibly mess up the case. Once all this blows over and the media attention dies down, I'm sure the police will be able to do what they need to do without the prying eyes and ridicule of the public and dopeheads.

The stupid...it burns sooooo much like a flash-bang in a little girl's bed.


FTFY
2012-10-12 09:31:13 PM
1 votes:
fark the police

Even their responses are horrific. I guess it's OK to use light explosives against adults always, or at least only when you have the right address. I guess it's OK to scar and burn people for being the subject of a warrant.

Of course if you have the wrong address, you may end up using them against adults, children, infants, the elderly, pets, etc.

Too bad the police are in such a rush to conduct the raid that they end up at the wrong address. It's pretty pathetic that I put more effort into verifying that I'm at the right address for a house party then the police do when deploying armor clad storm troopers with automatic weapons and light explosives.

fark the police
2012-10-12 09:26:29 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: There's still the problem of people using it. In that case, it'd be without the possibility of punishment.

Again. Weed's fine. Meth is not.


Meth is the modern equivilent of bathtub Gin.It is cheaply and poorly made without quality control and It only persists because there isn't a legal option. People continue to use it despite the health hazzards and it's somewhat unpleasant nature because there isn't a legal option.
2012-10-12 09:10:22 PM
1 votes:

phrawgh: You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. While this incident is regrettable, something has to be done to bring these meth heads and dopers under control so they stop preying on our children. It may be cliche but 'if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about' applies. Apparently the police found evidence of other illegal activity anyway. Police have a hard job to do and we should support them rather than question their every move.


4/10. "E" for "Effort" but really, you're trying to play devil's advocate when the Devil kicked a puppy.
2012-10-12 08:45:54 PM
1 votes:

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Why was jigger's post and image removed? It was a photo FROM THE ARTICLE.


Absolute farking stupidity and arrogance.
2012-10-12 08:20:24 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: Indubitably: Drug war needs to be over, now.

Marijuana? Sure.

Meth? No.

Meth makes you do some farked up shiat that you probably wouldn't do if you weren't speeding your ass off.



No drug war racket, no meth racket. Yes it is that simple.
2012-10-12 08:17:23 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: Indubitably: Drug war needs to be over, now.

Marijuana? Sure.

Meth? No.

Meth makes you do some farked up shiat that you probably wouldn't do if you weren't speeding your ass off.

Example: go to a house with the intention of having sex with a young engaged mother, suffocate her half-sister (who is also a young mother) when she asks you what you're doing at the house at 4 in the morning, beat young mother number one to death, try to have sex with her body, and dump their bodies out in a field in rural Western Missouri.

Like this asshole did.


In any given population of people living, you will find a small tidbit who are capable of this violence, so remove the monetary incentive and provide active and instructive treatment techniques for addicts, and I suspect you will find cheaper relief than a drug war that endangers more than it saves.
2012-10-12 08:16:17 PM
1 votes:
Look at the bright side; when they actually find a meth lab and use one of those boomsticks, they'll probably blow themselves to hell.
2012-10-12 08:08:47 PM
1 votes:
Well you know, to server and protect. And shoot dogs, grandmas and burn little girls. Brave men.
2012-10-12 08:01:53 PM
1 votes:
WHO the HELL throws a flash bang into a METH LAB?

I almost wish it was a meth lab so the SWAT-thugs might learn something.
2012-10-12 08:00:55 PM
1 votes:
Heroes, every damn one of them.

if the law enforcement professionals involved had any values or morals they would quit today, apologize for what they've done and try to make something out of their miserable POS lives.
2012-10-12 08:00:28 PM
1 votes:

Keizer_Ghidorah: So, the proper response to a suspected meth lab is to send in SWAT and toss grenades into the house as the first course of action?

And they wonder why we think police and SWAT are assholes.


If you're not wealthy or politically-connected (to the right people), you're target practice. Doubly-so if you're brown.
2012-10-12 07:59:00 PM
1 votes:
Cops in the 1950s:

www.policemotorunits.com

Cops today:

4.bp.blogspot.com

Since when did we turn loose the National Guard on the US?
2012-10-12 07:56:43 PM
1 votes:
FTA: The decision to use a SWAT team was based on a detailed checklist the department uses when serving warrants.

In other words, Do we have the gear? Check. Are we bored? Check. Checklist done...

And also, FTA, the guy was opening the door for them, when they knocked it down anyways... WTF?

I hope these idiots get sued so bad they have to lay the farkers off, but considering "Evidence was collected" means they'll trump up some charges against his perscription meds in order for them to drop their lawsuit... Jack boot thugs, indeed..
2012-10-12 07:53:49 PM
1 votes:
Waiting for CruiserTwelve to come and tell us why this is entirely reasonable police procedure and why the officers involved showed restraint and good judgement.
2012-10-12 07:52:13 PM
1 votes:
Sounds like someone was trying to make quota. I wonder how much they lied to the judge to get to the warrant.
2012-10-12 07:51:53 PM
1 votes:

M11618: How does a swat officer not know there is a delay on a flash bang? One of the1st things i learned in the military was how to properly toss a grenade. This is piss poor training, have they never heard of a cordon and knock? Bored small town cops is what this is.


It's Barney Fife playing soldier, nothing more.
2012-10-12 07:48:29 PM
1 votes:
Remove the monetary incentive: remove the violence.

Money=violence.

That is all.

*)
2012-10-12 07:47:21 PM
1 votes:
Drug war needs to be over, now.
2012-10-12 04:24:06 PM
1 votes:
farking horrible. This kid's gonna be scarred for life. PTSD, who knows what else.
2012-10-12 04:21:51 PM
1 votes:
"It was totally unforeseen, totally unplanned and extremely regrettable," St. John said. "We certainly did not want a juvenile, or anyone else for that matter, to get injured."

Who could possibly know that throwing a grenade at people would cause injuries? This is regrettable, but could have been avoided if these people had simply moved to another country where the police don't act like filthy animals.
 
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