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(AZCentral)   Obama administration silent on 3 states initiatives to legalize recreational marijuana. Could Obama's secret plan involve turning the nation into drug addicts?   (azcentral.com) divider line 264
    More: Scary, obama, Controlled Substances Act, United States Code, school zones, drug czar, Obama administration, United States, marijuana  
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2315 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Oct 2012 at 4:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 06:02:12 PM
Is "Cash Cow" is the Colorado version of "Cash Cab"?
 
2012-10-12 06:04:11 PM

mongbiohazard: ferretman: I don't think so:

Federal Law trumps State Law

Federal law is supreme over state laws yes... but that only matters if you have the resources to actually enforce those laws. If several states were to fully legalize pot, refuse to arrest or prosecute for it, then there isn't much the feds could do.


Makes me wonder if there might be some teeth hidden in USA PATRIOT or some other bit of authoritarian legislation that requires local authorities to cooperate with DHS (or other Federal agencies) when enforcing Federal crimes.

If cops can't refuse to help, then local laws mean nothing.
 
2012-10-12 06:05:22 PM

Amos Quito: Too easy to grow = too hard to tax.


It's easy to make beer too, but most people don't. No one ever went broke betting on the intense laziness of the American public. Also, it's not quite so easy to make good weed.
 
2012-10-12 06:10:23 PM
could be a nice uptick for Housing prices in these three states? Id seriously consider moving.
// tired of being an outlaw.
 
2012-10-12 06:15:26 PM

violentsalvation: Dusk-You-n-Me: Second term.

Do you actually believe that, or is it just wishful thinking? This administration is worse for medical marijuana than the administration before it.


[CITATION NEEDED]
 
2012-10-12 06:15:43 PM
Decriminalization would be enough. Who wants weak government weed that's taxed and comes from a factory farm? Just stop heavily persecuting people who smoke it or grow it. Don't allow its use on the street, only in licensed shops and clubs. Everything will be groovy.

thumbs.anyclip.com

Grrroooooovy
 
2012-10-12 06:16:07 PM

malaktaus: Amos Quito: Too easy to grow = too hard to tax.

It's easy to make beer too, but most people don't. No one ever went broke betting on the intense laziness of the American public. Also, it's not quite so easy to make good weed.



That all depends on the market price - especially the tax rate. If taxes are too high, people will grow their own.
 
2012-10-12 06:17:21 PM

TheBigJerk: violentsalvation: Dusk-You-n-Me: Second term.

Do you actually believe that, or is it just wishful thinking? This administration is worse for medical marijuana than the administration before it.

[CITATION NEEDED]



For the third time...
 
2012-10-12 06:18:53 PM
An interesting graph about the war on drugs. Yes, I know pot isn't addictive like hard core drugs.

pjmedia.com
 
2012-10-12 06:19:01 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: I've seen many different types of dealers and growers, and I'm willing to bet that your "couple houses in the hood" grower had a few firearms around.


Lots of people have "a few firearms around." And?

And come to think of it, I never saw him with a gun or any gun associated with him ever. He was a total hippie that liked to go canoeing. The houses were usually unattended. I guess he just took his chances when it came to break ins.

Ego edo infantia cattus: The Mexican cartels aren't the only criminal element that Prohibition causes. There are some good mom and pop growers out there, but for every one of them there's a dozen tweekers and cartel grows in the woods, and believe me, people go missing because of that shiat.


It's because of the prohibition, man. If people who grow large quantities of weed don't have to skulk around because the state might throw them in prison for 20 years, then there would be less of that. And the cartel grows would either go out of business or come out into the open. The ones on federal land (or whatever, land they didn't own) would still be in the shadows and not worth the upkeep. Those would die out.

Ego edo infantia cattus: One of my towns city council members got killed because he stumbled on a grow while hiking in our state forest, and I've heard a few stories about the cartel grows up here too. The small dealers don't perpetrate too many violent crimes, but then there's the ones that are dealing more than weed. If we legalized it, normal average smokers wouldn't have to deal with scumbags that have a gun hidden between their couch cushions.


By "legalize" here, you're talking about regulated right? There seem to be some semantic disputes in this thread. Anyway, if the regulations are tight enough, then there's still ample room for a black market.

If anyone can buy and sell it, the less trustworthy (or dangerous) sellers will lose business to the more trustworthy ones.
 
2012-10-12 06:19:46 PM

Amos Quito: malaktaus: Amos Quito: Too easy to grow = too hard to tax.

It's easy to make beer too, but most people don't. No one ever went broke betting on the intense laziness of the American public. Also, it's not quite so easy to make good weed.


That all depends on the market price - especially the tax rate. If taxes are too high, people will grow their own.


SOME will. Not everyone, not most, but SOME.
 
2012-10-12 06:19:58 PM

Heraclitus: vernonFL: Bloody William: It's states' rights until liberals do it.
Marcus Aurelius: The DEA would almost disappear if marijuana were legalized, so it's not going to happen.

That isn't really true. In fact, Mj legalization might make the DEA better, since they could concentrate on harder drugs like meth.

But Pot Heads dont shoot back.


this pot heat does :D
 
2012-10-12 06:20:34 PM

OgreMagi: An interesting graph about the war on drugs. Yes, I know pot isn't addictive like hard core drugs.

[pjmedia.com image 500x298]


Is that inflation adjusted?
 
2012-10-12 06:22:39 PM

Kuroshin: mongbiohazard: ferretman: I don't think so:

Federal Law trumps State Law

Federal law is supreme over state laws yes... but that only matters if you have the resources to actually enforce those laws. If several states were to fully legalize pot, refuse to arrest or prosecute for it, then there isn't much the feds could do.

Makes me wonder if there might be some teeth hidden in USA PATRIOT or some other bit of authoritarian legislation that requires local authorities to cooperate with DHS (or other Federal agencies) when enforcing Federal crimes.

If cops can't refuse to help, then local laws mean nothing.


I'm sure they have to turn any information they have over to the feds upon request, but I don't think the feds can compel state and local enforcement agencies to provide manpower or arrest people.
 
2012-10-12 06:23:10 PM

jigger: OgreMagi: An interesting graph about the war on drugs. Yes, I know pot isn't addictive like hard core drugs.

[pjmedia.com image 500x298]

Is that inflation adjusted?


I don't know.
 
2012-10-12 06:25:34 PM

Uncle_Sam's_Titties: Heraclitus: But Pot Heads dont shoot back.

this pot heat does :D


Now where did I put that goddam Glock? ....ooohhh cookies .... now what was I looking for? .... screw it, pass me the vape
 
2012-10-12 06:25:34 PM

MSFT: Amos Quito: malaktaus: Amos Quito: Too easy to grow = too hard to tax.

It's easy to make beer too, but most people don't. No one ever went broke betting on the intense laziness of the American public. Also, it's not quite so easy to make good weed.


That all depends on the market price - especially the tax rate. If taxes are too high, people will grow their own.

SOME will. Not everyone, not most, but SOME.



SOME already do, and the potential price that they could face, if caught, is VERY high indeed.
 
2012-10-12 06:25:54 PM

OgreMagi: jigger: OgreMagi: An interesting graph about the war on drugs. Yes, I know pot isn't addictive like hard core drugs.

[pjmedia.com image 500x298]

Is that inflation adjusted?

I don't know.


Oh well. It looks like a lot of graphs of government spending vs. results.

I'd quibble over the scaling of the left axis, but on closer inspection it really wouldn't make a difference.
 
2012-10-12 06:27:18 PM

logistic: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: olddeegee: I'm hoping that Obama's just staying out of the issue until he's re-elected.

There's really no reason for him to do anything unless something actually passes. And Lord knows that stoners ain't exactly the most reliable voting block.

I'm positive that's one of the biggest prohibitive issues with the entire movement. They are so busy rallying behind Ron Paul and the whack jobs that many supporters of NORML policy are their own worst enemy. If mainstream Americans started accepting and promoting the initiatives that these states are trying to adopt, I think it would be a huge positive change.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of saving money on jailing/arresting/processing people for what really amounts to nothing at all. And if we legalize marijuana, we cut off a major point of exposure to people for other drugs (drug dealers). Just my two cents.


Living in CO, I know many completely normal people, even some who've never tried marijuana EVER that are voting for legalization. It's not the "stoner" voting bloc versus everyone else, it's the rational versus the irrational.
 
2012-10-12 06:31:08 PM

Amos Quito: MSFT: Amos Quito: malaktaus: Amos Quito: Too easy to grow = too hard to tax.

It's easy to make beer too, but most people don't. No one ever went broke betting on the intense laziness of the American public. Also, it's not quite so easy to make good weed.


That all depends on the market price - especially the tax rate. If taxes are too high, people will grow their own.

SOME will. Not everyone, not most, but SOME.


SOME already do, and the potential price that they could face, if caught, is VERY high indeed.


I give up, you win.
Once MJ becomes legal (and it's a function of time, not if) everyone is going to grow their own.
Also of note: Now that craft beers are big and people can buy brew kits, Coors and Budweiser are almost out of business. I give them until just after the SuperBowl and they'll go bust.
 
2012-10-12 06:43:50 PM

MSFT: Amos Quito: MSFT: Amos Quito: malaktaus: Amos Quito: Too easy to grow = too hard to tax.

It's easy to make beer too, but most people don't. No one ever went broke betting on the intense laziness of the American public. Also, it's not quite so easy to make good weed.


That all depends on the market price - especially the tax rate. If taxes are too high, people will grow their own.

SOME will. Not everyone, not most, but SOME.


SOME already do, and the potential price that they could face, if caught, is VERY high indeed.

I give up, you win.
Once MJ becomes legal (and it's a function of time, not if) everyone is going to grow their own.
Also of note: Now that craft beers are big and people can buy brew kits, Coors and Budweiser are almost out of business. I give them until just after the SuperBowl and they'll go bust.



Only if taxed prohibitively, which has been my point all along.
 
2012-10-12 06:46:41 PM

Explodo: Living in CO, I know many completely normal people, even some who've never tried marijuana EVER that are voting for legalization. It's not the "stoner" voting bloc versus everyone else, it's the rational versus the irrational.


And that's the kicker. It just isn't a big deal here to most people. Even if they don't smoke, they know someone who does. I think Amendment 64 may actually pass this time.
 
2012-10-12 06:53:31 PM
1) Legalize pot and prostitution
2) Regulate and tax pot and prostitution
3 )Tax it
4) Profit
Question, is prostitution legal in Canada?
 
2012-10-12 07:00:33 PM

Weaver95: Jubeebee: Weaver95: I suppose it wouldn't matter if I mentioned that cannabis isn't addictive...?

It's also damn near impossible to OD on.

And (something I have acute interest in) it has both analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties while being non-reactive even with weapons grade NSAIDs.

not to mention it can be turned into one hell of a cheap and effective anti-biotic.


walk-hard.trailertheater.com

It's NOT HABIT FORMING

There's NO HANGOVER

You CAN'T OD on it!!

It MAKES SEX BETTER!

It's the cheapest drug there is!
 
2012-10-12 07:00:40 PM
At the risk of arousing the wrath of one or more of the Fark "I obtained seven PhDs while also composing thirteen award-winning operas and saving the starving children of Ethiopia while taking at least 200 bong hits a day" types, as much as I don't like stoners (and I don't like them), I'd much rather have recreational pot than hordes of foolish but harmless people in prison.

Yes that's right, stoners. I don't like you. I don't like anybody. Fark off. I want you to be able to smoke dope in peace and not go to jail. Even though I don't like you. Fark off, you stupid, ought-to-be-able-to-pursue-your-own-happiness stoners. Shut up. Or talk. Or compose award-winning operas. Or choke on a bag of Doritos. Whatever.

/been a rough week, long story
//not that you give a shiat
 
2012-10-12 07:10:19 PM
only a matter of time....only a matter of time. and time to put the zetas, crips, vice lords, ms13, and bloods all out of business.

and no more mexican brick with those nasty little crushed black seeds anymore either. yay!

/iowan
//we can grow stuff here
///cough cough cough
 
2012-10-12 07:14:05 PM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: logistic: I'd miss the beach, but I could live in Colorado I think.

Yeah, but your debate performance might suffer. Now that I think about it, that's a risk we are willing to take. C'mon up here, I'll roll ya a fattie.


YOU SOOFAbiatch

Why is everyone suddenly saying this?!?!? WTF DID I DO
 
2012-10-12 07:19:36 PM

Amos Quito:
Only if taxed prohibitively, which has been my point all along.


Do you think that there's a chance that we all have different definitions of what is "prohibitive"?
I have a lot of disposable income and don't smoke that often, so I really have no incentive to grow my own. Once Costco starts to carry it I'm pretty sure I'll quit all together before I go out and pick up some gardening gloves.
 
2012-10-12 07:23:04 PM
What part of federal law being supreme over state law don't people understand?
 
2012-10-12 07:24:13 PM

Rev.K: Drug addicts or Muslims.

Take your pick, America.


Homeland Security proudly announces its new "Terrorists or Tokers" program.
 
2012-10-12 07:24:36 PM

olddeegee: Marcus Aurelius: olddeegee: I'm hoping that Obama's just staying out of the issue until he's re-elected. I think we'll see some movement then.

The DEA would almost disappear if marijuana were legalized, so it's not going to happen.

The DEA would be just fine. There are plenty of other drugs for them to go after. Local police forces don't like changing it. A bulky drug like pot is much easier to find than other drugs.


The DEA resists changing it because they resist change and buy into some of their own bullshiat, but the real push comes entirely from the Prison Lobby. Private industry that has a vested interest in making sure there are a lot of people locked up and making them money.
 
2012-10-12 07:32:42 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: What part of federal law being supreme over state law don't people understand?


the federal government moves slow and lethargic, like your great aunt ethel after a few too many friday afternoon margaritas. with the exception of the civil rights era real change usually starts with the states (see the emancipation of women, for instance). when enough states are ready to ditch this pathetic war on drugs then eventually even congress and, yes, the dea will have to stfu and deal with the new reality. or else become like strom thurmond, a tired old hack that doesn't even believe the stupid shiat he spouts anymore. that process will likely grow if the amount of federal money flowing to the states to lock folks up for crimes diminishes as a growing number of people no longer think its worth paying to lock people up for a plant.
 
2012-10-12 07:35:42 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: What part of federal law being supreme over state law don't people understand?


Personally, I find the part where the darkies get to vote a bit confusing.
 
2012-10-12 07:37:46 PM

logistic: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: logistic: I'd miss the beach, but I could live in Colorado I think.

Yeah, but your debate performance might suffer. Now that I think about it, that's a risk we are willing to take. C'mon up here, I'll roll ya a fattie.

YOU SOOFAbiatch

Why is everyone suddenly saying this?!?!? WTF DID I DO


Not sure, but I farkied you long ago probably for something you posted with which I didn't quite agree. I haven't made it past 50 comments yet in this thread, so I was unaware of others' replies. I'll roll you a spleefer regardless...
 
2012-10-12 07:38:33 PM

Amos Quito: TheBigJerk: violentsalvation: Dusk-You-n-Me: Second term.

Do you actually believe that, or is it just wishful thinking? This administration is worse for medical marijuana than the administration before it.

[CITATION NEEDED]


For the third time...


So this is worse than every previous administration...how? Because by not arresting every person related to that guy he was somehow worse? And didn't he officially "shift focus" telling the justice department to work on other things instead of marijuana, to much consternation and finger-wagging by Republicans?

I understand frustration at lack of progress, but a black democrat won't be legalizing pot in THIS climate, too many "implications" and too expensive in terms of political capital. It's like asking someone to enter their family car into a charity demolition derby. Good cause, bad use of resources.
 
2012-10-12 07:47:27 PM
Even though I'm sure these measures will be challenged by the feds, their passage alone would send a strong message. And if they're passed and allowed to stand, well, guess it's time for me to move back north!
 
2012-10-12 07:48:20 PM

vernonFL: What are the bad neighborhoods in Denver?

I lived in Denver for 20 years, there are very few neighborhoods I would feel uncomfortable in, Denver neighborhoods are pretty diverse socially, economically and racially. To the person who said Colfax ave. Where do you live Highlands Ranch?
 
2012-10-12 07:58:09 PM

Uncle_Sam's_Titties: Heraclitus: vernonFL: Bloody William: It's states' rights until liberals do it.
Marcus Aurelius: The DEA would almost disappear if marijuana were legalized, so it's not going to happen.

That isn't really true. In fact, Mj legalization might make the DEA better, since they could concentrate on harder drugs like meth.

But Pot Heads dont shoot back.

this pot heat does :D


Ever hit anything, besides the hallucinations?
 
2012-10-12 08:01:00 PM

chuckufarlie: Weed is a lot less harmful than many of the things sold in stores all over the country. Booze and cigarettes top that list. Weed should be legal.


I'm a huge supporter of legalization. I would go so far as to say that if weed were legalized tomorrow, I'd be first in line for some white widow, but the reality is alcohol and tobacco are regulated by the government, and weed should be regulated as well. The taxes will help economies, You won't end up with ditch weed after some asshole promises you "it's the chronic", you won't be smoking a lung full of DDT, and hopefully less kids will have access to it.
 
2012-10-12 08:23:23 PM

ferretman: I don't think so:

Federal Law trumps State Law


Thrilling, when you want the DEA and federal government to actually get the funding to prosecute college kids with a quarter ounce of pot... you can pay for it... my state has other priorities.
 
2012-10-12 08:28:49 PM

firefly212: ferretman: I don't think so:

Federal Law trumps State Law

Thrilling, when you want the DEA and federal government to actually get the funding to prosecute college kids with a quarter ounce of pot... you can pay for it... my state has other priorities.


Word up.
Seattle voted to make pot the lowest priority a few years ago, and I laughed when the chief of police at the time went on the record as saying, "vote for whatever you want, we already don't care about pot."
 
2012-10-12 08:43:39 PM

FishyFred: logistic: I'd miss the beach, but I could live in Colorado I think.

Colorado is great. Tons of interesting breweries, a culture of healthy living (if you want it), and amazing skiing and snowboarding.


And if global warming keeps up, we could have beaches too.

♫They'll be surfing in Pueblo, and Fort Collins too. Tell teacher we're surfing, surfin' the Front Range.♫
 
2012-10-12 09:24:37 PM
We have another ballot initiative here too, one that will repeal the medical marijuana law and put into place some kind of much stricter law. Only 3 patients at once, you can't sell it, patients can grow their own, but only a few plants at a time, blah blah....

What I can't figure out is that I thought the damn thing had already been pretty much gutted. A few summers ago, the feds came in here and raided everybody, and the legislature had a shiat fit. At that time I thought they'd put this much stricter law into place, and most of the pot shops around town disappeared. Although there's still plenty for the size of this town. Now I got my absentee ballot, and here's this initiative to repeal the original law, but go with the stricter one.

Did the feds just come in here to scare the crap out of everyone, and then they went away? Because they haven't been back. Although some of the people they busted were convicted of one thing or another. Mostly the people who were the most outspoken about the law in the first place. Coincidence, I'm sure.

Oh, OK, I just looked it up. The whole she-bang is going through the rounds in the courts. 2, 3 court cases and appeals already.....and who knows what this new vote will do? Probably be fought, outlawed, appealed, raided, etc. etc. And this is just the STATE (Montana).

They're giving up. It's over, feds. I didn't even know this shiat was on the ballot again. I didn't hear a word about it. I don't think it's likely that we'll vote the stricter law into place--it was a big deal for about six months, when every stoner in town tried to open a dispensary and the parents freaked out, but they're just another store now. We don't even get the scare stories in the local newspaper anymore about how people are BREAKING INTO THE DISPENSARIES to get their weed.

/thank you for listening to my rambling
 
2012-10-12 09:32:05 PM
Hey, who do I vote for if I want legal weed?
 
2012-10-12 09:37:45 PM

moefuggenbrew: Hey, who do I vote for if I want legal weed?


www.posters57.com
 
2012-10-12 09:58:54 PM

TheBigJerk: Amos Quito: TheBigJerk: violentsalvation: Dusk-You-n-Me: Second term.

Do you actually believe that, or is it just wishful thinking? This administration is worse for medical marijuana than the administration before it.

[CITATION NEEDED]


For the third time...

So this is worse than every previous administration...how?



Because you can't read, that's how. Note that you changed a singular into plurals?

The first dispensary opened in 1997 (under Clinton) and they expanded largely unmolested under Bush.

The crackdowns from the IRS and Justice depts got into full-swing under Obama's centralized authoritarian regime.


TheBigJerk: And didn't he officially "shift focus" telling the justice department to work on other things instead of marijuana,



Apparently he said ONE thing and did another. Surprised?


TheBigJerk: I understand frustration at lack of progress, but a black democrat won't be legalizing pot in THIS climate, too many "implications" and too expensive in terms of political capital.



So we should lower our expectations for Obama?

No problem. I did that in 2009.

Not that Womney would be any better, but he probably be too busy kissing Netanyahu's ass to worry about weed.
 
2012-10-12 11:00:35 PM
This could be another reason I love living in Colorado.
 
2012-10-13 12:54:44 AM

logistic: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: olddeegee: I'm hoping that Obama's just staying out of the issue until he's re-elected.

There's really no reason for him to do anything unless something actually passes. And Lord knows that stoners ain't exactly the most reliable voting block.

I'm positive that's one of the biggest prohibitive issues with the entire movement. They are so busy rallying behind Ron Paul and the whack jobs that many supporters of NORML policy are their own worst enemy. If mainstream Americans started accepting and promoting the initiatives that these states are trying to adopt, I think it would be a huge positive change.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of saving money on jailing/arresting/processing people for what really amounts to nothing at all. And if we legalize marijuana, we cut off a major point of exposure to people for other drugs (drug dealers). Just my two cents.


I agree. Too many pro-legalization people also happen to be the same kind of off-kilter folk who buy into RON PAUL and other fringe movements, when all they really need to do is put enough pressure on Democrats to legalizeit. But I guess god forbid we should actually try to effect change through the existing political system . . .
 
2012-10-13 01:20:21 AM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: logistic: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: logistic: I'd miss the beach, but I could live in Colorado I think.

Yeah, but your debate performance might suffer. Now that I think about it, that's a risk we are willing to take. C'mon up here, I'll roll ya a fattie.

YOU SOOFAbiatch

Why is everyone suddenly saying this?!?!? WTF DID I DO

Not sure, but I farkied you long ago probably for something you posted with which I didn't quite agree. I haven't made it past 50 comments yet in this thread, so I was unaware of others' replies. I'll roll you a spleefer regardless...


Ohhhh that. No man, it's cool. I voice a lot of things that people don't agree with lol I thought you were making a Ryan joke. I'm just gonna back out the door now...

/and take that rolled thing on the table with me.
 
2012-10-13 01:43:29 AM

ShawnDoc: Supreme Court has already ruled the feds regulation of drugs is constitutional.


As I stated, it won't matter if states start legalizing it. The Feds do not have the resources to enforce the law against individuals growing their own (which is legal at least in the Colorado law) for personal consumption.

Basically, the cat will be out of the bag. Sure the Fed can continue to target dispensaries, but how long after the states legalize it for personal use will they want to miss out on the tax revenue from sales and regulation (similar to tobacco and alcohol).

This is just the first step.
 
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