If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(AZCentral)   Obama administration silent on 3 states initiatives to legalize recreational marijuana. Could Obama's secret plan involve turning the nation into drug addicts?   (azcentral.com) divider line 264
    More: Scary, obama, Controlled Substances Act, United States Code, school zones, drug czar, Obama administration, United States, marijuana  
•       •       •

2315 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Oct 2012 at 4:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



264 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-10-12 04:46:52 PM

MSFT: Anyone have any idea how many we expect to lose over the next 4yrs?


I have heard two or three perhaps. Kind of hard to say exactly.
 
2012-10-12 04:47:28 PM

jigger: MSFT: stewmadness: Yeaaaahhhh, somthing else legalized that is terrible for you.

No kidding. We legalize anything else and people will start calling this "the land of the free" or some BS.
I don't know about you, but if I wanted to be free I would move to Canada.

How about instead of legalize, decriminalize. Let the government just stay out of it. In addition to not arresting people or harassing people for growing it, selling it, possessing it, or using it, they also don't tax it, subsidize it, etc. Just make it not a crime and leave people alone.


So you're for legalization.

/hint: "decriminalize" only refers to posession; the growers would still be farked
 
2012-10-12 04:47:48 PM

JohnnyC: MSFT: Anyone have any idea how many we expect to lose over the next 4yrs?

I have heard two or three perhaps. Kind of hard to say exactly.


I've heard one or two. It's pretty difficult to say, I imagine some might hold on based on who is POTUS>
 
2012-10-12 04:48:46 PM

HeartBurnKid: jigger: MSFT: stewmadness: Yeaaaahhhh, somthing else legalized that is terrible for you.

No kidding. We legalize anything else and people will start calling this "the land of the free" or some BS.
I don't know about you, but if I wanted to be free I would move to Canada.

How about instead of legalize, decriminalize. Let the government just stay out of it. In addition to not arresting people or harassing people for growing it, selling it, possessing it, or using it, they also don't tax it, subsidize it, etc. Just make it not a crime and leave people alone.

So you're for legalization.

/hint: "decriminalize" only refers to posession; the growers would still be farked


Decriminalize growing, selling, possessing, and using.
 
2012-10-12 04:49:36 PM

jigger:

How about instead of legalize, decriminalize. Let the government just stay out of it. In addition to not arresting people or harassing people for growing it, selling it, possessing it, or using it, they also don't tax it, subsidize it, etc. Just make it not a crime and leave people alone.


Decriminalizing is not the answer. Decriminalizing any narcotic means that people will still sell it unregulated, the profits will still go to those who don't pay taxes on it, the money will still be made by those who use criminal tactics to ensure their domination of the market.

When you legalize something, it is harder for young kids to get their hands on it. Drug dealers don't ask for ID when selling a bag of anything. Any highschool kid will tell you that it's easier to get pot than it is alcohol, because alcohol is legal and regulated.

Legalization is the only way around this problem. You starve the cartels and gangs of their profits, which eliminates a lot of the turf wars that are caused because of drug sales, you encourage a new source of revenue for a market that already exists, but is currently being run in the shadows.

And the most simple truth is that if alcohol is legal, than surely marijuana should be. I shouldn't have to tell anyone here that marijuana overdoses are impossible, and that alcohol creates an exponentially greater amount of health/societal/domestic issues than pot does.
 
2012-10-12 04:51:37 PM

busy chillin': It seems Republicans are for state's rights until they're not for them.

"The states can govern themselves!"

What about weed, abortion and gay marriage?

Oh, well, the Federal Government has spoken.


disgusting


www.jamesjoyce.co.uk
 
2012-10-12 04:52:35 PM

jigger: HeartBurnKid: jigger: MSFT: stewmadness: Yeaaaahhhh, somthing else legalized that is terrible for you.

No kidding. We legalize anything else and people will start calling this "the land of the free" or some BS.
I don't know about you, but if I wanted to be free I would move to Canada.

How about instead of legalize, decriminalize. Let the government just stay out of it. In addition to not arresting people or harassing people for growing it, selling it, possessing it, or using it, they also don't tax it, subsidize it, etc. Just make it not a crime and leave people alone.

So you're for legalization.

/hint: "decriminalize" only refers to posession; the growers would still be farked

Decriminalize growing, selling, possessing, and using.



The pharmaceutical industry FROWNS on your shenanigans.

/So does Jeebus
//And the Prison Industry
///And the Mexican drug cartels
 
2012-10-12 04:52:49 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: logistic: I'm looking at it from the perspective of saving money on jailing/arresting/processing people for what really amounts to nothing at all.

Oh, absolutely. There's literally billions of dollars that could be saved by sending people to rehab instead of jail.

Personally, I think they should treat it like homebrewing: you can grow an amount for your own personal consumption and give as gifts, but you're not allowed to sell it and you're only allowed to grow X amount/year.


Saved? Onerous regulation could probably curb usage, certainly by minors, and taxes on it could take in a hell of a lot of money. In Washington, the marijuana crop is estimated to be worth billions; possibly more than Apples. Sure costs probably would be reduced, greatly; but, the budget could be put well into the black without even counting on those savings. Not to mention the increased employment and attendant benefits.
 
2012-10-12 04:52:54 PM
End prohibition.
 
2012-10-12 04:53:50 PM

jigger: Decriminalize growing, selling, possessing, and using.


Decriminalize doesn't mean it's legal. Just that it's not a crime, like speeding is not a crime, it's a civil infraction.

Weed is decriminalized in Maine. A citation for possession or paraphernalia typically means a $350 fine, and confiscation of the pot and/or device. And FSM help you if you have it in more than one bag.
 
2012-10-12 04:53:50 PM

Jaykzo: jigger:

How about instead of legalize, decriminalize. Let the government just stay out of it. In addition to not arresting people or harassing people for growing it, selling it, possessing it, or using it, they also don't tax it, subsidize it, etc. Just make it not a crime and leave people alone.

Decriminalizing is not the answer. Decriminalizing any narcotic means that people will still sell it unregulated, the profits will still go to those who don't pay taxes on it, the money will still be made by those who use criminal tactics to ensure their domination of the market.

When you legalize something, it is harder for young kids to get their hands on it. Drug dealers don't ask for ID when selling a bag of anything. Any highschool kid will tell you that it's easier to get pot than it is alcohol, because alcohol is legal and regulated.

Legalization is the only way around this problem. You starve the cartels and gangs of their profits, which eliminates a lot of the turf wars that are caused because of drug sales, you encourage a new source of revenue for a market that already exists, but is currently being run in the shadows.

And the most simple truth is that if alcohol is legal, than surely marijuana should be. I shouldn't have to tell anyone here that marijuana overdoses are impossible, and that alcohol creates an exponentially greater amount of health/societal/domestic issues than pot does.


Marijuana is not a narcotic. And yeah, those marijuana cartels are everywhere.
 
2012-10-12 04:55:22 PM

Jaykzo: jigger:

How about instead of legalize, decriminalize. Let the government just stay out of it. In addition to not arresting people or harassing people for growing it, selling it, possessing it, or using it, they also don't tax it, subsidize it, etc. Just make it not a crime and leave people alone.

Decriminalizing is not the answer. Decriminalizing any narcotic means that people will still sell it unregulated, the profits will still go to those who don't pay taxes on it, the money will still be made by those who use criminal tactics to ensure their domination of the market.

When you legalize something, it is harder for young kids to get their hands on it. Drug dealers don't ask for ID when selling a bag of anything. Any highschool kid will tell you that it's easier to get pot than it is alcohol, because alcohol is legal and regulated.

Legalization is the only way around this problem. You starve the cartels and gangs of their profits, which eliminates a lot of the turf wars that are caused because of drug sales, you encourage a new source of revenue for a market that already exists, but is currently being run in the shadows.

And the most simple truth is that if alcohol is legal, than surely marijuana should be. I shouldn't have to tell anyone here that marijuana overdoses are impossible, and that alcohol creates an exponentially greater amount of health/societal/domestic issues than pot does.



So just treat it like corn, tomatoes or begonias.

No "legalization" or "control" necessary.
 
2012-10-12 04:57:57 PM

Karma Curmudgeon: jigger: Decriminalize growing, selling, possessing, and using.

Decriminalize doesn't mean it's legal. Just that it's not a crime, like speeding is not a crime, it's a civil infraction.

Weed is decriminalized in Maine. A citation for possession or paraphernalia typically means a $350 fine, and confiscation of the pot and/or device. And FSM help you if you have it in more than one bag.


I see. We are looking at the word decriminalize differently. You're using it in the context that the state currently uses it. "Ok, this isn't a crime you just committed. It's a civil offense. Sure, you'll be punished for it all the same, maybe with jail time, but this is not a criminal case, ok."

I'm using the term to mean that there will be no force used against you for your actions. You committed no crime, therefore there will be no retribution. No tickets. No confiscations. You will just be left alone. Think of it the same way growing tomatoes in your backyard and eating them for dinner is decriminalized.
 
2012-10-12 04:58:00 PM

lennavan: I've heard one or two. It's pretty difficult to say, I imagine some might hold on based on who is POTUS>


Well... let's face it. The ones with an agenda are going to stick it out as long as they can in an effort to finally complete their agenda. Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia come to mind...
 
2012-10-12 04:58:43 PM

Amos Quito: So just treat it like corn, tomatoes or begonias.


Damn, we both went the tomato route.

Someone will come along and go the potato route in no time.
 
2012-10-12 04:59:27 PM

jigger: Jaykzo: jigger:

Marijuana is not a narcotic. And yeah, those marijuana cartels are everywhere.


An estimated 60% of the Mexican drug cartels' profits come from marijuana


I guess you're cool with that.
 
2012-10-12 04:59:40 PM
marijuana is practically legal in many parts of Colorado. You just need to pretend you have back pain or something, see an easy-going doctor, and you're on your way to a pot party.

The cops' business hasn't decreased that much -- the medicinal marijuana shops get knocked over as much as banks and convenience stores, if not more so.
 
2012-10-12 05:02:23 PM

Jaykzo: I guess you're cool with that.


Their profits have been dropping right along side our legalization and decriminalization efforts. So... I guess if you support prohibition, you support the cartels.
 
2012-10-12 05:02:26 PM
Really the best thing the POTUS can do right now is keep silent and not politicize the issue. A lot of conservatives support this issue on libertarian leaning grounds. Making it Red vs Blue just risks eroding that support. The best thing really is for the state to decriminalize it, see savings in their law enforcement budget (and perhaps a bit of a tax bump from the weed sales) which in turn leads other states to get in on this. Then you reach a point were either the federal government changes the federal laws or we can do the whole "States amend the constitution" thing to deal with the DEA and federal drug laws.

The minute the POTUS endorses this, Congress will turn into a shiat flinging mess over this issue and that just hurts the movement.
 
2012-10-12 05:02:44 PM

Jaykzo: jigger: Jaykzo: jigger:

Marijuana is not a narcotic. And yeah, those marijuana cartels are everywhere.

An estimated 60% of the Mexican drug cartels' profits come from marijuana

I guess you're cool with that.


So you link to a story that defeats your point?

Stiff competition from thousands of mom-and-pop marijuana farmers in the United States threatens the bottom line for powerful Mexican drug organizations in a way that decades of arrests and seizures have not...
 
2012-10-12 05:03:06 PM
Weed is a lot less harmful than many of the things sold in stores all over the country. Booze and cigarettes top that list. Weed should be legal.
 
2012-10-12 05:03:50 PM

ShawnDoc: Its very important that weed not just be decriminalized, but sold through retail (Dispensaries, government owned "liquor" stores or whatever) and regulated. Its important that it be coming from a safe source (no hazardous pesticides), the proceeds not be going to organized crime, that customer know exactly what they are getting, and that they are easily able to procure it.

That's the problem with the Fed. Them going after dispensaries keeps the mj out of the hands of people who need it, while at the same time driving drug money to Mexican drug lords and increasing the risk of death or injury due to contaminates.


I don't disagree. But outright legalization undercuts the Fed going after the dispensaries and allowing individuals to grow their own for personal consumption. The Fed has LONG overstepped the limitations in the Constitution by trying to tie everything to the Commerce Clause. In this case, I hope the states shove it right up the Fed's asses.
 
2012-10-12 05:04:17 PM

Jaykzo: jigger: Jaykzo: jigger:

Marijuana is not a narcotic. And yeah, those marijuana cartels are everywhere.

An estimated 60% of the Mexican drug cartels' profits come from marijuana

I guess you're cool with that.



Anyone can grow WAY better weed in their own yard / house than the Mexican dirt. The only reason they don't is fear of being BUSTED.

How do you think the Mexican Dirtbags feel about legalization/ decriminalization?
 
2012-10-12 05:06:34 PM

ha-ha-guy: Really the best thing the POTUS can do right now is keep silent and not politicize the issue. A lot of conservatives support this issue on libertarian leaning grounds. Making it Red vs Blue just risks eroding that support. The best thing really is for the state to decriminalize it, see savings in their law enforcement budget (and perhaps a bit of a tax bump from the weed sales) which in turn leads other states to get in on this. Then you reach a point were either the federal government changes the federal laws or we can do the whole "States amend the constitution" thing to deal with the DEA and federal drug laws.

The minute the POTUS endorses this, Congress will turn into a shiat flinging mess over this issue and that just hurts the movement.


I agree with most of that. I don't know if there will be amendments to state constitutions about it... but changes in laws, certainly.
 
2012-10-12 05:06:51 PM

ferretman: I don't think so:

Federal Law trumps State Law


You think the people behind the legalization efforts don't know that? The point is to force the issue to be debated nationally, because our overlords will not under any circumstances even consider a change unless they are forced. Exhibit A: When Obama had an online "conversation" on youtube, 18 of the top 20 questions were about marijuana or the drug war, and he refused to answer even one of them. The powers that be refuse to treat marijuana as a serious or controversial issue, despite the fact that literally millions of Americans have had their lives destroyed over it and half the population thinks marijuana should be legalized. If at least one of these initiatives passes they will no longer be able to ignore it. The inevitable federal crackdown will also likely be farked up and unpopular enough to push more people into the pro-legalization camp. It's all part of the plan, and the plan is not simply to legalize marijuana in Colorado and Washington, or to legalize it state by state; you're thinking small.
 
2012-10-12 05:07:06 PM

Jaykzo: An estimated 60% of the Mexican drug cartels' profits come from marijuana

I guess you're cool with that.



I wonder what their margin would be if I were allowed to plant next my azaleas.
 
2012-10-12 05:07:23 PM

Jaykzo: jigger: Jaykzo: jigger:

Marijuana is not a narcotic. And yeah, those marijuana cartels are everywhere.

An estimated 60% of the Mexican drug cartels' profits come from marijuana

I guess you're cool with that.


Yeah, my guess is that jigger lives in the middle of nowhere and has never had to deal with a paranoid grower or major drug dealer in his or her life.
 
2012-10-12 05:07:26 PM

jigger: Amos Quito: So just treat it like corn, tomatoes or begonias.

Damn, we both went the tomato route.

Someone will come along and go the potato route in no time.


i3.kym-cdn.com

Keeping weed illegal IS the "potato route".
 
2012-10-12 05:07:45 PM
I've never smoked pot in my life and even I think it should be legal and regulated.

The amount of tax revenue that could be generated is staggering, the amount of tax expenses it would save is equally staggering.

But we get bent over by Big Pharma, Big Prison, and Big Bureaucracy to keep it illegal.

Hell, the DEA could be kept intact and have all those who currently focus on pot arrests moving toward pot regulations and Big Bureaucracy still comes out ahead!

It's a shame the legalization voting bloc can't get more momentum going.
 
2012-10-12 05:07:56 PM

Cletus C.: Let me be blunt,


snerk. Nice one.

Pass the Doritos, dude.
 
2012-10-12 05:08:23 PM

jigger: Think of it the same way growing tomatoes in your backyard and eating them for dinner is decriminalized.


That's because those aren't decriminalized, they're legal.
 
2012-10-12 05:09:01 PM

slayer199: The Fed has LONG overstepped the limitations in the Constitution by trying to tie everything to the Commerce Clause.


True... I think that's been addressed in some places. It mostly has to do with moving/selling it across state lines. I suppose if they still want to bust people for pot, they could always sit at the state borders and watch for people running marijuana across state lines... :P
 
2012-10-12 05:10:24 PM

malaktaus: ferretman: I don't think so:

Federal Law trumps State Law

You think the people behind the legalization efforts don't know that? The point is to force the issue to be debated nationally, because our overlords will not under any circumstances even consider a change unless they are forced. Exhibit A: When Obama had an online "conversation" on youtube, 18 of the top 20 questions were about marijuana or the drug war, and he refused to answer even one of them. The powers that be refuse to treat marijuana as a serious or controversial issue, despite the fact that literally millions of Americans have had their lives destroyed over it and half the population thinks marijuana should be legalized. If at least one of these initiatives passes they will no longer be able to ignore it. The inevitable federal crackdown will also likely be farked up and unpopular enough to push more people into the pro-legalization camp. It's all part of the plan, and the plan is not simply to legalize marijuana in Colorado and Washington, or to legalize it state by state; you're thinking small.



It's about control
Not control of weed
But control of you, people
 
2012-10-12 05:10:34 PM
States Rights?


Oh yeah that only matters for oppressing brown people and women.
 
2012-10-12 05:12:25 PM
old but still works
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-12 05:12:51 PM

Egalitarian: marijuana is practically legal in many parts of Colorado. You just need to pretend you have back pain or something, see an easy-going doctor, and you're on your way to a pot party.

The cops' business hasn't decreased that much -- the medicinal marijuana shops get knocked over as much as banks and convenience stores, if not more so.


I've been watching Boardwalk Empire lately. It's a great show, but you really need to start watching from the 1st episode to get what's going on. Anyway, it really is a little fictional window into the way the real world operates.

And sometimes the cops are the ones doing the knocking over.
Link
 
2012-10-12 05:13:17 PM

ferretman: I don't think so:

Federal Law trumps State Law


Federal law is supreme over state laws yes... but that only matters if you have the resources to actually enforce those laws. If several states were to fully legalize pot, refuse to arrest or prosecute for it, then there isn't much the feds could do.
 
2012-10-12 05:13:27 PM
The average person, on a daily basis, is taking caffeine, nicotine, thc, amphetamine and antidepressant. To get high they need some serious shiat man. Won't someone think of the average person?
 
2012-10-12 05:14:27 PM

EighthDay: I've never smoked pot in my life and even I think it should be legal and regulated.

The amount of tax revenue that could be generated is staggering, the amount of tax expenses it would save is equally staggering.

But we get bent over by Big Pharma, Big Prison, and Big Bureaucracy to keep it illegal.

Hell, the DEA could be kept intact and have all those who currently focus on pot arrests moving toward pot regulations and Big Bureaucracy still comes out ahead!

It's a shame the legalization voting bloc can't get more momentum going.


20 years ago no states had medical marijuana laws and public support for legalization hovered around 30%. Now 18 states and D.C. have such laws and 50% of the population supports legalization. There's plenty of momentum.
 
2012-10-12 05:14:52 PM

Sting: old but still works
[i.imgur.com image 550x825]



No, it doesn't.
 
2012-10-12 05:17:01 PM
President Camacho: Now I understand everyone's shiat's emotional right now. But I've got a 3 point plan that's going to fix EVERYTHING.
Congressman #1: Break it down, Camacho!
President Camacho: Number 1: We've got this guy KingPsyz. Number 2: He's got a higher IQ than ANY MAN ALIVE. and Number 3: He's going to fix EVERYTHING.


Legalize Pot

Tax Pot

Budget fixed
 
2012-10-12 05:17:31 PM

EighthDay: It's a shame the legalization voting bloc can't get more momentum going.


You haven't seen major strides towards legalization?

So many people seem to think this is an all or nothing game where the "big prize" is the only goal. There are 17 states with legal medicinal use. Some states have decriminalized it. Three states are straight up trying to legalize it. Do you not recognize that each step forward makes the leap towards national legalization that much shorter? If we keep on with the pace we're going, I suspect national legalization will only be a baby step away in a few years time.
 
2012-10-12 05:17:46 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: Yeah, my guess is that jigger lives in the middle of nowhere and has never had to deal with a paranoid grower or major drug dealer in his or her life.


Would they be so paranoid if there weren't a risk of a long prison sentence. And yes, I knew a guy who owned a couple houses in the hood, where the whole house was filled with plants. And yeah, he was paranoid, but he stayed super low key obviously. He didn't get into any "turf wars." It's not like there was some gang selling weed on the corner in the hood and had to fight over the corner. Jeez.
 
2012-10-12 05:17:50 PM

mongbiohazard: ferretman: I don't think so:

Federal Law trumps State Law

Federal law is supreme over state laws yes... but that only matters if you have the resources to actually enforce those laws. If several states were to fully legalize pot, refuse to arrest or prosecute for it, then there isn't much the feds could do.



Just like they couldn't enforce a national speed limit (55), or a national drinking age (21) etc, right?

They don't have to physically enforce the laws, they just threaten to withhold federal funds (highway money), and the states cave.
 
2012-10-12 05:17:52 PM
Y'know who is one of the prominent supporters of the Colorado amendment to regulate marijuana like alcohol?

Staunch conservacritter Tom freakin' Tancredo.

Y'know who is one of the prominent members of the opposition to the amendment?

Former brewpub owner and current Democratic governor John Hickenlooper.

Strange world. Maybe Tancredo's for it because he thinks it would screw "the Mexicans" or something. Maybe Hick's against it because he has aspirations for higher office.

Linkage
 
2012-10-12 05:19:50 PM
consenting adults with states' laws behind them can't have a harmless weed. but kids can be given Adderal for low test scores in school.
 
2012-10-12 05:20:40 PM

Karma Curmudgeon: jigger: Think of it the same way growing tomatoes in your backyard and eating them for dinner is decriminalized.

That's because those aren't decriminalized, they're legal.


So I have to pay a tax on my own homegrown tomatoes? Is there even a law on the books regarding homegrown tomatoes. You know what I'll bet there is, knowing people's general mentality.

At least the act of growing your own tomatoes and eating them is not part of the legal system.
 
2012-10-12 05:21:13 PM

KingPsyz: President Camacho: Now I understand everyone's shiat's emotional right now. But I've got a 3 point plan that's going to fix EVERYTHING.
Congressman #1: Break it down, Camacho!
President Camacho: Number 1: We've got this guy KingPsyz. Number 2: He's got a higher IQ than ANY MAN ALIVE. and Number 3: He's going to fix EVERYTHING.

Legalize Pot

Tax Pot

Budget fixed


www.ilovegrowingmarijuana.com

There's a slight problem with that plan. 

Too easy to grow = too hard to tax.
 
2012-10-12 05:23:21 PM

vernonFL: Bloody William: It's states' rights until liberals do it.
Marcus Aurelius: The DEA would almost disappear if marijuana were legalized, so it's not going to happen.

That isn't really true. In fact, Mj legalization might make the DEA better, since they could concentrate on harder drugs like meth.


But Pot Heads dont shoot back.

Meth Heads are Cray Cray!
 
2012-10-12 05:23:33 PM

jigger: Karma Curmudgeon: jigger: Think of it the same way growing tomatoes in your backyard and eating them for dinner is decriminalized.

That's because those aren't decriminalized, they're legal.

So I have to pay a tax on my own homegrown tomatoes? Is there even a law on the books regarding homegrown tomatoes. You know what I'll bet there is, knowing people's general mentality.



images.forbes.com

Working on it.
 
Displayed 50 of 264 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report