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(BBC)   The ending to "Angels Take Manhattan" that they didn't shoot. Little dusty here   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 34
    More: Sappy, Chris Chibnall  
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3419 clicks; posted to Video » on 12 Oct 2012 at 1:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 12:24:26 PM  
Wow...
 
2012-10-12 01:34:58 PM  
Wow that would have been a super ending. Too bad it was never shot. You could feel how emotional it would have been even without the actors.
 
2012-10-12 01:44:10 PM  
I'm glad the ending wasn't filmed.

The show is still called "Doctor Who", not "The Ponds".

/might have been okay for a DVD/internet mini episode, though.
 
2012-10-12 02:10:13 PM  
Damn....

/tear...
 
2012-10-12 02:25:46 PM  
Still think River should have been there... "Hi, Grandpa."
 
2012-10-12 02:30:28 PM  

Blues_X: Wow...


bdbdbd: Damn....

/tear...


Tehrasha: Still think River should have been there... "Hi, Grandpa."


these
 
2012-10-12 02:40:39 PM  
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rory started out weak, but over time he's easily become one of the best companions The Doctor has ever had.
 
2012-10-12 02:44:05 PM  
Damn, it's dusty in here.
 
2012-10-12 02:59:34 PM  
Internet dust cloud is here too.
 
2012-10-12 03:30:45 PM  

Tehrasha: Still think River should have been there... "Hi, Grandpa."


Oh, that would have been great.
 
2012-10-12 03:52:45 PM  

Tehrasha: Still think River should have been there... "Hi, Grandpa."


I love this so very much. That was pretty touching, I wish they would have shot it. It felt like they left too much mystery behind the Ponds in the end. Perhaps it will be explored a bit more in later episodes, but I doubt it.
 
2012-10-12 04:14:59 PM  
Wasn't it implied that they were sent back to that inescapable hotel?
 
2012-10-12 04:44:52 PM  
I would have liked to have seen the episode just go out on Brian watering the plants. Maybe with the credits rolling over it. Ala Fry's dog.

/ ♪♫ If it taaakes forever..... ♫♪
 
2012-10-12 04:58:26 PM  

dualplains: \ Ala Fry's dog.


I WASN'T CRYING BEFORE BUT NOW I AM.
 
2012-10-12 05:39:50 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: The show is still called "Doctor Who", not "The Ponds".


10,000 years from now, a race of sapient octopii will be conducting an archeological dig of ancient London when they will discover a stone tablet upon which is inscribed in Archaic High English B script the phrase "It's Doctor Who, not the goddamn Amy Pond Show".
 
2012-10-12 06:53:32 PM  

FirstNationalBastard:
The show is still called "Doctor Who", not "The Ponds".


Back in the day, the show WAS primarily about the companions, and the Doctor was just the ornery old guy with the time machine who accidentally kidnapped them. It's only in recent years, especially the last few, that the Doctor became the focus to the almost near exclusion of the companions. Which is a shame, really, because the companions are supposed to be the characters the audience identifies with, and they're becoming less and less relevant. Amy and Rory have done absolutely nothing of merit this season until their final episode, so I for one am glad that Chris Chibnall took the time to go back and give them the closure Moffat refused to.

The show is supposed to be "You're going on an amazing adventure with a wonderful man to guide you," not "You're going on an amazing adventure, you wonderful man." Honestly the Doctor needs to step back and let his companions actually be companions instead of the peanut gallery they've turned into.
 
2012-10-12 07:46:47 PM  
I... I just don't think the weeping angels are a cool enough monster to be having every 4th episode. I'm already almost as sick of them as I am of the daleks and the cybermen. At least it's not the farkin' slitheen again.
 
2012-10-12 08:02:52 PM  
My biggest complaint with the end of AiM is after the angel takes Amy, The Doctor does nothing to the angel. Not even a fearful withdrawal into the TARDIS, or lashing out in a fit of rage. Just focus on the tombstone and fade to the next scene like the angel isn't there anymore.

Chibnall's epilogue would have been awesome to add, with or without River, but it would have been cool to have Brian meet both of his grandchildren.
 
2012-10-12 08:06:58 PM  

Austinoftx: I... I just don't think the weeping angels are a cool enough monster to be having every 4th episode. I'm already almost as sick of them as I am of the daleks and the cybermen. At least it's not the farkin' slitheen again.


haven't they only been in three episodes?
 
2012-10-12 09:15:09 PM  

Mentat: Austinoftx: I... I just don't think the weeping angels are a cool enough monster to be having every 4th episode. I'm already almost as sick of them as I am of the daleks and the cybermen. At least it's not the farkin' slitheen again.

haven't they only been in three episodes?


Couldn't say exactly. 3 story arcs, perhaps? Still sick, sick, sick, sick of 'em. Just being honest here. 

The slitheen are just a children's fart joke. Even then, I'm sure many kids watching The Sarah Jane Adventures got sick of them every other episode. I'd take the daleks or cybermen over the angels because at least I'd get to hear some fine electronically-modulated arrogant gloating back and forth, lol.
 
2012-10-12 09:46:46 PM  
"Pond Life: A Very Dusty Epilogue"

Well done. I see why they didn't do it, though, what with it being very like the start of Blink, which was not unlike the end of Back To The Future II, plus introducing a new character that is integral to the Williams family but will only get brief screen time. On the other hand, having River bring the letter would have been called too River-centric, especially by those who're already anti-River. (Personally, I think they're just jealous, but whatever.)

As for the companions being more featured than The Doctor, Fast Moon is right; the companions have always been the gateway to the weirdness of The Doctor's take on the universe, and he is intentionally supposed to be too alien to have viewers directly identify with for any sustained period. What we're supposed to feel is that he is the driver of the bus tour of the weirdverse, but shaped by the companions he chooses to be passengers on that bus, and so he chooses them wisely (or perhaps the TARDIS does). We can see this in the way each new version of The Doctor reflects some facet of his previous or current companion.

For example, Ten's eyes were brown like Rose Tyler's (which is weird, because both her parents had blue eyes), and his accent was more like hers (because she didn't like the "North" sound he had as Nine). The Second Doctor was the warm, expressive, energetic but quirky know-it-all uncle figure rather than the potty, cranky, non-physical old grandfather the First had been because his companions at the time were young and needed a more dynamic, vibrant Doctor. Three was involuntary, but he adapted himself to the circumstances and people around him and then, as though pivoting off of Sarah Jane Smith's needs, became the weird, wild-eyed, enigmatic but utterly devoted and heroic Fourth Doctor, who ended his life with a bunch of young companions who wanted to regain or find a home, so he became the most "normal", homey Doctor. The Posh Country Gentleman Doctor. Between dying of poison and staring up at that total hodgepodge of irritating and fascinating and horrid plaid that was Peri, her rack and her blouse, he became an unpredictable mix of diverse extremes in the Sixth Doctor, but then his companion Mel, who was short, energetic, a bit of a manipulator (with her insistence on diet and exercise), plus the blow to the head that sparked the regeneration made the Seventh Doctor, who was all those things. The Eighth was a bit of a special case, but he still took much of who he became from Grace, then especially since the Time War, he has gone back to being much like how he was in his First incarnation. I'm not saying he's entirely like he was in An Unearthly Child, just that his tendencies are to revert to something less than kind if not accompanied by a companion. The First Doctor was an obnoxious bastard who would have casually crushed the skull of a human ancestor to make things easier to get away from, without thinking about how many lives would have been snuffed out of future generations. He only cared about Susan and that only in that she was his family and he felt responsible for her. He had to learn from Ian and Barbara (and Susan, who was quicker to learn from them) that compassion and bravery and other humane human impulses could co-exist with intellect and knowledge. (It's also possible that his stealing the TARDIS involved overcoming the security lockout on the telepathic circuits which gave him some brain damage, hence his lapses and unpredictability.) But in any case, heroism certainly wasn't anything he'd learned from the Time Lords, who considered the description Aloof Ivory Tower Academic to be high praise.

When I ponder it a bit, I sometimes wonder if the recent demonizing of The Doctor by his enemies might not be accurate. I mean, consider that the Time Lords were essentially the most powerful superpower in the universe, and they withdrew from the universe after they realized that becoming emotionally attached and involved was detrimental to the flow of time. They didn't stop watching or making judgements or pompous assertions, they just officially considered the rest of the universe to be beneath them. They had their empire period and it went out of control and sour, so they did a Vulcan sort of thing and retreated to University to become professional students. Into this bland, self-satisfied status quo comes a few non-conformists, like The Master and The Rani and The (meddling) Monk and The Corsair and most especially The Doctor. We think of The Doctor as the best of them, but when he's on his own for too long, it seems he's increasingly depressed, dangerous and even demented. He still seems to know that he needs someone to guide him, so despite his pain at being abandoned by or responsible for the deaths of them, he goes back to having a companion. But what if the Real Doctor is someone worse than Rassilon, Omega, Morbius, The Rani, The Master, The Monk and the other renegades and despots? He says he found his calling to rush out and see what was out there when he was exposed to the Untempered Schism, but what if you were eight years old and you looked into the entirety of space and time and found an evil, terrible face staring back at you from every point and corner, and you knew that face was yours from the future? What if Hitler, while still a fresh-minded boy, was shown the terrible evil he would become and in his innocence, chose to do what he could to become someone else? If boy Hitler (or any of the super-evil people of history) was given a second chance via a time and space travel machine and a companion to be a role model, after having seen the horrors he would author and release upon the world but while still having a clean soul, might he not try to fashion a different version of himself? Might he not try turning his potential to the good rather than evil? What if that's who and what The Doctor really is? Certainly there are others in the Who-verse who think he's a terrible potential monster, and objectively we tend to think it's the pot calling the shiny stainless steel kettle black, but if he thinks that of himself, and was intentionally trying to thwart his future and change his stars to become good, he might be finding through circumstance and introspection that apparently his deeper impulses are still echoes of the monster's roar. Really, he doesn't have to be a standout figure of potential evil given his origin; think of what happened to the Time Lords themselves: embroiled in a war they could not win, they resurrected even their greatest tyrant (Rassilon) and nemesis (The Master) out of desperation, and decided that destroying and re-building the universe in their own image was a reasonable course. And then The Doctor, faced with that outcome or the one where the Daleks win and destroy and enslave everyone, including his own people, or any of the other horrible outcomes the Time War offered, chose to wipe out all the combatants rather than let them raze the non-combatants. His worst fear of himself was realized: he'd become The Time Lord Victorious. So without that confidence in his heroism, it becomes a daily struggle of second-guessing vs. decisive action for him that necessitates a companion to play with and off of so that he can keep a proper heading.


/Yeah, too long. If you didn't read it, don't bother telling me that, because I just said it.
 
2012-10-12 10:34:18 PM  
Is this the one where they were going to do a Broadway show? Because I hate that one...the whole relationship between Ms. Piggy and Kermit seemed so artificial, and the Animal scenes all seemed really forced and trite.
 
2012-10-12 10:38:01 PM  

Grotesk: "Pond Life: A Very Dusty Epilogue"

Well done. I see why they didn't do it, though, what with it being very like the start of Blink, which was not unlike the end of Back To The Future II, plus introducing a new character that is integral to the Williams family but will only get brief screen time. On the other hand, having River bring the letter would have been called too River-centric, especially by those who're already anti-River. (Personally, I think they're just jealous, but whatever.)
blah blah blah blah. ...


TL:DNR
 
2012-10-12 11:42:33 PM  

Grotesk: "Pond Life: A Very Dusty Epilogue"

Well done. I see why they didn't do it, though, what with it being very like the start of Blink, which was not unlike the end of Back To The Future II, plus introducing a new character that is integral to the Williams family but will only get brief screen time. On the other hand, having River bring the letter would have been called too River-centric, especially by those who're already anti-River. (Personally, I think they're just jealous, but whatever.)

As for the companions being more featured than The Doctor, Fast Moon is right; the companions have always been the gateway to the weirdness of The Doctor's take on the universe, and he is intentionally supposed to be too alien to have viewers directly identify with for any sustained period. What we're supposed to feel is that he is the driver of the bus tour of the weirdverse, but shaped by the companions he chooses to be passengers on that bus, and so he chooses them wisely (or perhaps the TARDIS does). We can see this in the way each new version of The Doctor reflects some facet of his previous or current companion.

For example, Ten's eyes were brown like Rose Tyler's (which is weird, because both her parents had blue eyes), and his accent was more like hers (because she didn't like the "North" sound he had as Nine). The Second Doctor was the warm, expressive, energetic but quirky know-it-all uncle figure rather than the potty, cranky, non-physical old grandfather the First had been because his companions at the time were young and needed a more dynamic, vibrant Doctor. Three was involuntary, but he adapted himself to the circumstances and people around him and then, as though pivoting off of Sarah Jane Smith's needs, became the weird, wild-eyed, enigmatic but utterly devoted and heroic Fourth Doctor, who ended his life with a bunch of young companions who wanted to regain or find a home, so he became the most "normal", homey Doctor. The Posh Country Gentleman Doctor. ...




tl;dr
 
2012-10-13 12:42:10 AM  
Interesting that they chose not to shoot it. It provides closure.

Perhaps implying they've decided to leave themselves an opening.
 
2012-10-13 01:47:29 AM  

Frank Anthrax: Wasn't it implied that they were sent back to that inescapable hotel?


The paradox wiped out the New York angels and the hotel. They were trapped in the past but not trapped trap.
 
2012-10-13 01:57:10 AM  

Grotesk: "Pond Life: A Very Dusty Epilogue"

Well done. I see why they didn't do it, though, what with it being very like the start of Blink, which was not unlike the end of Back To The Future II, plus introducing a new character that is integral to the Williams family but will only get brief screen time. On the other hand, having River bring the letter would have been called too River-centric, especially by those who're already anti-River. (Personally, I think they're just jealous, but whatever.)

As for the companions being more featured than The Doctor, Fast Moon is right; the companions have always been the gateway to the weirdness of The Doctor's take on the universe, and he is intentionally supposed to be too alien to have viewers directly identify with for any sustained period. What we're supposed to feel is that he is the driver of the bus tour of the weirdverse, but shaped by the companions he chooses to be passengers on that bus, and so he chooses them wisely (or perhaps the TARDIS does). We can see this in the way each new version of The Doctor reflects some facet of his previous or current companion.

For example, Ten's eyes were brown like Rose Tyler's (which is weird, because both her parents had blue eyes), and his accent was more like hers (because she didn't like the "North" sound he had as Nine). The Second Doctor was the warm, expressive, energetic but quirky know-it-all uncle figure rather than the potty, cranky, non-physical old grandfather the First had been because his companions at the time were young and needed a more dynamic, vibrant Doctor. Three was involuntary, but he adapted himself to the circumstances and people around him and then, as though pivoting off of Sarah Jane Smith's needs, became the weird, wild-eyed, enigmatic but utterly devoted and heroic Fourth Doctor, who ended his life with a bunch of young companions who wanted to regain or find a home, so he became the most "normal", homey Doctor. The Posh Country Gentleman Doctor. ...


very interesting point. What would your description of 11 be under this postulate?
 
2012-10-13 06:46:53 AM  

nightronin: very interesting point. What would your description of 11 be under this postulate?


tl:dr

Wait, what? Oh...

There did seem to be a bit of a clean break, what with being alone and blowing up the TARDIS as he regenerated, but really Eleven's physicality probably came from (are you ready?)...

...Sarah Jane Smith. She'd reappeared in his life and even to the last things he did as Ten he included her. Eleven has the same hair and eye color, same blending of age (in his eyes and expressions and certain other physical mannerisms, like his stance and hand gestures) and perpetual youth (in his explosive energy, enthusiasm, hyperactive impatience and seeming naiveté about worldly matters -- which contrasts with his cynical and savvy Ninth persona).

I see youth being a big deal for him of late, what with his feeling increasingly nostalgic in his age and having revisited or been forced to revisit things and people from his past, and because of that I think there was an almost-intentional (in-character, not just in the show's production) calling back to his much younger self personality-wise (specifically his Second incarnation, possibly due to his still feeling cheated out of a full life in that incarnation the same way he so railed against the end of his Tenth). Many of his mannerisms are spot-on revisits of Two's, such as going lipless when emotional, the hands that need something to do, the slumped shoulders and frown when things aren't going his way in conversation and the commentary he throws in quickly before over-talking himself and continuing on. But no recorder-playing. Which is good.

There's the remodel of the TARDIS into a version of its First exterior, a parallel of his regeneration, with both being something of a "renewal" -- a reset as opposed to a fully progressive change. Two rather famously also blew up the TARDIS and reassembled it.

Then there's a couple of parallels to the Second Doctor in his companions:
Amy the Scot, the longest-running modern companion = Jamie the Scot, Two's longest companion
Oswin/Clara, the cute and sexy little dark-haired genius from another time = Zoe, the cute and sexy little dark-haired genius from another time

However, Eleven got his clothing from a hospital locker room the same way that Three and Eight did. Two seems to've gotten his from some homeless guy the TARDIS wardrobe.
 
2012-10-13 09:03:49 AM  
I am just glad the ponds are gone already.. it was getting a little old dealing with the emotional crap every week..

BTW. Am i the only DW fan that isn't enjoying this season much so far? I liked the first episode and seeing jenna louise, but since then its been meh.. And the doctor just shrugging and saying fark it when dealing with the weeping angels??? REALLY??? Such bs... no fight in him at all.. just "oh well you are dead time to move on" at least they killed the ponds off hopefully they won't be doing flashbacks and shiat.
 
2012-10-13 09:12:43 AM  
Eleven's attitude seems to come from the fact that the majority of Ten's stress, and his death, were caused by his tendency to get emotionally attached to everyone he met. So Eleven became self-obsessed instead. His big thing in this latest season is to constantly brag about his role in historical events, and many of his previous encounters were solved by simply bragging about his previous accomplishments. He shows little personal interest in his companions or the people he meets on his travels, his actions feel more like they're just an audience to show off to. He claims to love Amy (platonically), but love implies respect, which he never shows. His attitude towards her would be more accurately described as "possessive", especially in Amy's final scenes where he wails at her to choose him over her family.

This attitude for the Doctor isn't bad per se, as it's similar to the First Doctor who was always contrary and rude and didn't give a damn about his companions and would happily let others die for his own sake. But the difference is that the First Doctor was a supporting character, and the audience, through Ian and Barbara, were meant to contest his attitude and fight against him. The Eleventh Doctor, on the other hand, is the main character, and while Rory regularly argues against him, Rory is played as a very neutered force who the audience isn't supposed to take seriously, which leaves us with a show that seems to think we're supposed to like how the Doctor behaves.

Which is why I appreciate this video so much because it gives Rory, the only sensible character in the entire series, the last laugh. As it should.
 
2012-10-13 01:45:14 PM  

Grotesk: "Pond Life: A Very Dusty Epilogue"

Well done. I see why they didn't do it, though, what with it being very like the start of Blink, which was not unlike the end of Back To The Future II, plus introducing a new character that is integral to the Williams family but will only get brief screen time. On the other hand, having River bring the letter would have been called too River-centric, especially by those who're already anti-River. (Personally, I think they're just jealous, but whatever.)

As for the companions being more featured than The Doctor, Fast Moon is right; the companions have always been the gateway to the weirdness of The Doctor's take on the universe, and he is intentionally supposed to be too alien to have viewers directly identify with for any sustained period. What we're supposed to feel is that he is the driver of the bus tour of the weirdverse, but shaped by the companions he chooses to be passengers on that bus, and so he chooses them wisely (or perhaps the TARDIS does). We can see this in the way each new version of The Doctor reflects some facet of his previous or current companion.

For example, Ten's eyes were brown like Rose Tyler's (which is weird, because both her parents had blue eyes), and his accent was more like hers (because she didn't like the "North" sound he had as Nine). The Second Doctor was the warm, expressive, energetic but quirky know-it-all uncle figure rather than the potty, cranky, non-physical old grandfather the First had been because his companions at the time were young and needed a more dynamic, vibrant Doctor. Three was involuntary, but he adapted himself to the circumstances and people around him and then, as though pivoting off of Sarah Jane Smith's needs, became the weird, wild-eyed, enigmatic but utterly devoted and heroic Fourth Doctor, who ended his life with a bunch of young companions who wanted to regain or find a home, so he became the most "normal", homey Doctor. The Posh Country Gentleman Doctor. ...


Too long, boring, inaccurate, poorly written, and the font size is too small.
 
2012-10-13 02:17:37 PM  

Superjoe: Too long, boring, inaccurate, poorly written, and the font size is too small.


Goddammitsomuch!
And the guy I paid $30.00 to write it said it was a guaranteed "A"!
Frickin' can't rely on anyone anymore with the economy the way it is.
Is this too small to read? Did you need the large print EZ Read edition?
 
2012-10-13 02:21:04 PM  
Oh, sorry Superjoe, I neglected to say thank you for reading!

/Grazie!
 
2012-10-15 07:59:49 AM  
The Story of the Eleventh has been about rebirth but also penitence. His first task is to though himself into a crack in all reality to save the Universe. Check.

Then, after his greatest triumph and greatest fall, he realizes he has to face death. Instead, he cheats the Silence, but he knows the Ruse cannot stand long, nor can he stay invisible. He gets the idea to delete his entire existence from Memory.

The Doctor has recognized his greatest mistake at Demon's Run. He won the battle without a single shot. Armies unarmed and surrendered at the mere mention of his name.The Doctor know understands what let him win at Demon's Run so easily what what caused it in the first place: The Doctor's reputation. This is why the Silence formed.

The only way to get rid of the Silence is for the Doctor to give up his greatest weapon: his Legend. It had become too easy for him. He got the Daleks and the Cybermen bonking into one another finding ways to run from him and that made him seem powerful.

But the Alliance at the Pandorica and the emergence of the Silence showed the cost of those cheap victories. Now they could hold the Universe hostage just to get to him. Now they would attack his friends, repeatedly know to come to Earth because they knew that would flush out the Doctor. Far, from being Lord Protector of all he cherished, he was now the greatest THREAT to anyone he loved. Because now they were all BAIT.

(Like in Victory for the Daleks, how to you summon the Doctor and get him to identify you new Dalek DNA is authentic Dalek? Attack Earth, of course.)

When the 11th regenerated, his instant choice for Companion was the first pair of eyes he saw, Amelia's. He wanted Amelia because her young, untouched, simple mind was something he desired to shape the 11th. Instead, he screws up, screws up Amelia's childhood and creates a jaded and hostile Amy. This shapes the 11th as he grows less childlike and more jaded and feeling doomed to be alone.

But Rory also affects the Doctor, initially the Gooseberry and Amy's love doll. Rory proves himself full companion by becoming the Last Centurion. The Doctor realizes the only way to save Amy from the Minotaur is to break her faith in him. He wants to leave her but can't.

The Doctor then realizes something. He was looking for a companion that was naive and child-like, intensely curious and brave. That's what the Doctor has created in Rory. Rory should be Amy's hero, not the Doctor. But ordinary life isn't something that can show Amy the hero Rory is, only Doctor Life can. The Doctor actually envies Rory.

Eleven's attitude seems to come from the fact that the majority of Ten's stress, and his death, were caused by his tendency to get emotionally attached to everyone he met. So Eleven became self-obsessed instead. His big thing in this latest season is to constantly brag about his role in historical events, and many of his previous encounters were solved by simply bragging about his previous accomplishments.

Why I think this is so is because, well, basically, it's all a little inside joke. Because as only he knows, they're ALL GOING AWAY very soon. Very soon no one 9except a tiny few (River wasn't convinced) will ever have known of the Doctor's existence. So like the Laurel and Hardy tape the Ponds were watching, it's the Doctor's "Neiner neiner neiner" Tour. Just jimmying ridiculously all these points in History so that he can have the last laugh when no one at all remember him being there or there being any trace.

Silence will fall when the Question is asked.

The Question is "Doctor Who?"

Only by wiping all evidence of his existence from the Universe will the Silence fall, as in be DEFEATED. Then the Doctor can reemerge, freed but stripped of the Power of his Past.
 
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