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(Yahoo)   You know, when even Goldman-Sachs CEO and Dark Lord of the Sith Lloyd Blankfein says it's time to raise taxes on people like him, it's probably time to raise taxes   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 91
    More: Obvious, Lloyd Blankfein, CEO, Erskine Bowles, CEO of Goldman Sachs, Clinton Global Initiative, pushback, centre-left  
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1276 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Oct 2012 at 12:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 11:49:17 AM
Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.
 
2012-10-12 12:09:07 PM
i wonder if he'd feel the same way if that 5% increase went to capital gains.
 
2012-10-12 12:36:54 PM
How about a sales tax of two cents on every dollar a share is worth? Buying 10,000 shares of X Corp at $100/share and it adds up quickly.
 
2012-10-12 12:43:36 PM

thomps: i wonder if he'd feel the same way if that 5% increase went to capital gains.


Of course not. Capital gains taxes are double taxation, because corporations are people, and as a shareholder I'm a part of that person, so when you tax the corporation, you're really taxing me personally, and not some nebulous entity I threw money into, expecting to get more money out.

At least I think that's the argument.
 
2012-10-12 12:43:50 PM
Star Wars thread is over there, subby.
 
2012-10-12 12:43:59 PM
He's clearly disgruntled, and therefore, can't be trusted.
 
2012-10-12 12:48:19 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.


Oh ok so then people who wanted to go to war with Iraq (or Iran now) should just sign up for the draft and SHUT THE fark UP?

Or should people who complain about "entitlements" like Social Security and Medicare should just refuse taking it and shut up?


I know you won't respond because you are a pathetic child.
 
2012-10-12 12:48:29 PM
But the gains wouldn't even fuel the government for 90 days or something! Let's look to Canada.
 
2012-10-12 12:51:13 PM
So is he willing to pay 5% more or 5 percentage points more? Big difference.

Regardless, Blankfein's idea of a budget deal is slashing SS, throwing seniors to the insurance industry wolves, ripping apart an already tattered safety net, and eating our seed corn by gutting funding for basic science.
 
2012-10-12 12:51:53 PM

thomps: i wonder if he'd feel the same way if that 5% increase went to capital gains.


2wolves: How about a sales tax of two cents on every dollar a share is worth? Buying 10,000 shares of X Corp at $100/share and it adds up quickly.


Add in the legalization and taxation of pot and budget solved, everyone gets a 40oz and a my little pony.
 
2012-10-12 12:54:06 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.


img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com
 
2012-10-12 12:55:18 PM

2wolves: How about a sales tax of two cents on every dollar a share is worth? Buying 10,000 shares of X Corp at $100/share and it adds up quickly.


.02 cents accumulates pretty fast too.

Anything to slow down the computerized trading reaping billions over a 1/10th shift in price while adding nothing to the overall economy.
 
2012-10-12 01:02:48 PM

KingPsyz: thomps: i wonder if he'd feel the same way if that 5% increase went to capital gains.

2wolves: How about a sales tax of two cents on every dollar a share is worth? Buying 10,000 shares of X Corp at $100/share and it adds up quickly.

Add in the legalization and taxation of pot and budget solved, everyone gets a 40oz and a my little pony.


I find your ideas intriguing, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
2012-10-12 01:03:22 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.


You can't plan a budget by counting on donations.
 
2012-10-12 01:04:54 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

Brad Malt, a lawyer who oversees Romney's trust, said Romney's effective tax rate would have come in lower if the former Massachusetts governor had claimed the entirety of his donations.

That would have been a problem because it would have conflicted with a statement Romney made earlier during the campaign that his effective tax rate had been at least 13 percent in each of the past 10 years.

So Romney paid more taxes than he had to. But that conflicted with another statement from earlier this year, when he said during a Republican primary debate: "I pay all the taxes legally required and not a dollar more."

This handout image provided by the Romney campaign shows the front page of Mitt Romney's 2011 tax return.
At another point, he said during an ABC News interview that if he had paid more taxes than he owed, that would disqualify him from the presidency. His exact words: "I don't pay more than are legally due and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

Despite that, he paid more taxes than he owed.


Source

So, when can we expect him to drop out of the race?
 
2012-10-12 01:06:19 PM
I think taxes should be higher too, but when already wealthy people are saying they want higher income taxes, they're not really proposing something that would affect them much. Let's see if he wants a wealth tax or an approximation of it in the form of higher capital gains taxes.
 
2012-10-12 01:06:25 PM

Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

Oh ok so then people who wanted to go to war with Iraq (or Iran now) should just sign up for the draft and SHUT THE fark UP?

Or should people who complain about "entitlements" like Social Security and Medicare should just refuse taking it and shut up?


I know you won't respond because you are a pathetic child.


meh. you can complain and whine all you want, who cares?
Now if you want to do something you can enlist (as many people do) or you can forgo your Social Security payments. Nothing is stopping you.
 
2012-10-12 01:06:41 PM
I think it's worth addressing the: "Send in a cheque if you want to pay taxes!" argument. This argument is bunk because the economy is something like a game in which persons compete, and expecting them to act against their rational interests (for a certain value of 'rational', let's say para-consistency for the sake of argument) is basically asking someone, somewhere to fall on their sword. Some people will do that, but government powers to enforce taxes exist because relying on people voluntarily paying their taxes is a recipe for people not paying their taxes. Some might, sure, but the point of taxes, particularly a progressive tax system, is that everyone pays their fair share. The equality is important, the 'level playing field' effect if you will.

Asking that government step in and raise taxes on both yourself and your competitors is certainly smarter than just sending in a cheque so that you put yourself in a position of disadvantage in relation to the competitors that don't send in a cheque. It helps avoid a tragedy of the commons, and doesn't rely on putting those of good will at a disadvantage for minimal gain.
 
2012-10-12 01:06:58 PM
these guys see the discontent with wealth inequality isn't going away, it's a major theme of the election. And if Romney wins you will really see the shiat fly on this issue over the next 4 years.
 
2012-10-12 01:08:35 PM

Carn: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

Brad Malt, a lawyer who oversees Romney's trust, said Romney's effective tax rate would have come in lower if the former Massachusetts governor had claimed the entirety of his donations.

That would have been a problem because it would have conflicted with a statement Romney made earlier during the campaign that his effective tax rate had been at least 13 percent in each of the past 10 years.

So Romney paid more taxes than he had to. But that conflicted with another statement from earlier this year, when he said during a Republican primary debate: "I pay all the taxes legally required and not a dollar more."

This handout image provided by the Romney campaign shows the front page of Mitt Romney's 2011 tax return.
At another point, he said during an ABC News interview that if he had paid more taxes than he owed, that would disqualify him from the presidency. His exact words: "I don't pay more than are legally due and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

Despite that, he paid more taxes than he owed.

Source

So, when can we expect him to drop out of the race?


He's not really going to pay that. he will file an amended return after the election and change that. he just didn't want his rate being 10%. that would look bad politically
 
2012-10-12 01:09:00 PM

tenpoundsofcheese:
Now if you want to do something you can enlist (as many people do) or you can forgo your Social Security payments. Nothing is stopping you.



Lets all point and laugh at someone who doesn't understand the tragedy of the commons!
 
2012-10-12 01:09:42 PM

Arkanaut: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

You can't plan a budget by counting on donations.


when you have a $1,400,000,000,000 budget deficit, I think you have bigger problems than whether or not you correctly forecasted every dollar coming in from the top .05% of tax payers
 
2012-10-12 01:10:31 PM
Translation: the partisan crap the GOP pulled to downgrade the U.S.'s credit rating cost me more money than the democrats proposed tax plan ever would.
 
2012-10-12 01:12:44 PM

Nurglitch:
Asking that government step in and raise taxes on both yourself and your competitors is certainly smarter than just sending in a cheque so that you put yourself in a position of disadvantage in relation to the competitors that don't send in a cheque.


oh yeah, the CEO of Goldman Sachs would be at a huge disadvantage against the CEO of Morgan Stanley if he sent in a check or even a cheque.
Goldman Sachs would lose so much business as a result. Wow. You figured that out.
 
2012-10-12 01:12:49 PM
when you have a $1,400,000,000,000 budget deficit, I think you have bigger problems than whether or not you correctly forecasted every dollar coming in from the top .05% of tax payers

Please enumerate.
 
2012-10-12 01:13:12 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Arkanaut: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

You can't plan a budget by counting on donations.

when you have a $1,400,000,000,000 budget deficit, I think you have bigger problems than whether or not you correctly forecasted every dollar coming in from the top .05% of tax payers


It's worth doing to cut out 40% of that budget deficit.
 
2012-10-12 01:13:26 PM

Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

Oh ok so then people who wanted to go to war with Iraq (or Iran now) should just sign up for the draft and SHUT THE fark UP?

Or should people who complain about "entitlements" like Social Security and Medicare should just refuse taking it and shut up?


I know you won't respond because you are a pathetic child.


This.

TPC has been outed for some time now as a shill for the GOP. How much exactly do you get paid to post their knuckle dragging mouth-breather talking points? Sweet life you got there TPC, is this how you envisioned it all playing out when you were flunking remedial English?
 
2012-10-12 01:15:28 PM

LasersHurt: KingPsyz: thomps: i wonder if he'd feel the same way if that 5% increase went to capital gains.

2wolves: How about a sales tax of two cents on every dollar a share is worth? Buying 10,000 shares of X Corp at $100/share and it adds up quickly.

Add in the legalization and taxation of pot and budget solved, everyone gets a 40oz and a my little pony.

I find your ideas intriguing, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.


It's amazing what some common sense could do for our budget and the country as a whole.
 
2012-10-12 01:17:00 PM

Cymbal: Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

Oh ok so then people who wanted to go to war with Iraq (or Iran now) should just sign up for the draft and SHUT THE fark UP?

Or should people who complain about "entitlements" like Social Security and Medicare should just refuse taking it and shut up?


I know you won't respond because you are a pathetic child.

This.

TPC has been outed for some time now as a shill for the GOP.


yeah right, the dude is just an alt by the same guy who brought us skookum.. I mean look at his posts he plays the straight man setting up softballs for people to hit out of the park
 
2012-10-12 01:17:57 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Arkanaut: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

You can't plan a budget by counting on donations.

when you have a $1,400,000,000,000 budget deficit, I think you have bigger problems than whether or not you correctly forecasted every dollar coming in from the top .05% of tax payers


Problems like what?
 
2012-10-12 01:19:01 PM
Anyone else read this guy's name as Lord Blanketfiend?

No?

oh...
 
2012-10-12 01:20:57 PM

coyo: tenpoundsofcheese: Arkanaut: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

You can't plan a budget by counting on donations.

when you have a $1,400,000,000,000 budget deficit, I think you have bigger problems than whether or not you correctly forecasted every dollar coming in from the top .05% of tax payers

It's worth doing to cut out 40% of that budget deficit.


So you think raising taxes on the 1% by the 5% in the article will raise $560,000,000,000 a year. Really?
 
2012-10-12 01:21:14 PM

Cymbal:
TPC has been outed for some time now as a shill for the GOP.


That's why most of us have him on farkING IGNORE. Please stop quoting the douche-nozzle.
 
2012-10-12 01:26:12 PM
Raising taxes on the rich by a small amount is projected to produce a half trillion in revenue. I say treat the capital gains as any other income. I say treat it like Adam Smith would have rental income treated.
 
2012-10-12 01:26:13 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.


One guy sending in an extra million or few is gonna magically help now?

Tell me again about how taxing the rich won't solve our fiscal crisis.

// as a bonus, then tell me how lowering rates while letting "rich people" deductions go CAN solve our fiscal crisis
 
2012-10-12 01:27:19 PM

coyo: tenpoundsofcheese: Arkanaut: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

You can't plan a budget by counting on donations.

when you have a $1,400,000,000,000 budget deficit, I think you have bigger problems than whether or not you correctly forecasted every dollar coming in from the top .05% of tax payers

It's worth doing to cut out 40% of that budget deficit.


according to the 2009 data you would need to double the taxes paid by the top 10% of tax payers (about 55% of all fed income tax payers) to get about $600B in revenue.

That is a bit more than 40% - is that what you want?
 
2012-10-12 01:29:35 PM
Tax capital gains the same as income and we'll see lots of tax revenue, probably without raising income taxes for that bracket.
 
2012-10-12 01:29:40 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: coyo: tenpoundsofcheese: Arkanaut: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

You can't plan a budget by counting on donations.

when you have a $1,400,000,000,000 budget deficit, I think you have bigger problems than whether or not you correctly forecasted every dollar coming in from the top .05% of tax payers

It's worth doing to cut out 40% of that budget deficit.

according to the 2009 data you would need to double the taxes paid by the top 10% of tax payers (about 55% of all fed income tax payers) to get about $600B in revenue.

That is a bit more than 40% - is that what you want?


So, go back to Eisenhower-era rates?
 
2012-10-12 01:31:14 PM

coyo: Tax capital gains the same as income and we'll see lots of tax revenue, probably without raising income taxes for that bracket.


Shiat, I'd even be OK with leaving the carried loss in place if we did that.

// otherwise, reduce carried loss to 3 years (from the current 5)
// less of a window to offset your gains, like Romney using his 2008 losses to shed liability for the last 4
 
2012-10-12 01:31:45 PM

Hobodeluxe: Carn: tenpoundsofcheese:

Source

So, when can we expect him to drop out of the race?

He's not really going to pay that. he will file an amended return after the election and change that. he just didn't want his rate being 10%. that would look bad politically


I know, I just thought Romney's thoughts on the matter were relevant given the previous comment. But that aint how the GOP rolls.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-12 01:32:34 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: coyo: tenpoundsofcheese: Arkanaut: tenpoundsofcheese: Send in a check.
It is a lot easier, less paperwork.

You can't plan a budget by counting on donations.

when you have a $1,400,000,000,000 budget deficit, I think you have bigger problems than whether or not you correctly forecasted every dollar coming in from the top .05% of tax payers

It's worth doing to cut out 40% of that budget deficit.

according to the 2009 data you would need to double the taxes paid by the top 10% of tax payers (about 55% of all fed income tax payers) to get about $600B in revenue.

That is a bit more than 40% - is that what you want?


Yep. That'll do for a start, although you are ignoring people like Romney who make lots of money but pay little or no tax for years at a time.
 
2012-10-12 01:33:35 PM
The simple truth is that taxes need to go up for everyone above the poverty line.
 
2012-10-12 01:35:01 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
"I DON'T REMEMBER ASKING YOU A GOD DAMN THING!"
 
2012-10-12 01:35:51 PM

Nurglitch: I think it's worth addressing the: "Send in a cheque if you want to pay taxes!" argument. This argument is bunk because the economy is something like a game in which persons compete, and expecting them to act against their rational interests (for a certain value of 'rational', let's say para-consistency for the sake of argument) is basically asking someone, somewhere to fall on their sword. Some people will do that, but government powers to enforce taxes exist because relying on people voluntarily paying their taxes is a recipe for people not paying their taxes. Some might, sure, but the point of taxes, particularly a progressive tax system, is that everyone pays their fair share. The equality is important, the 'level playing field' effect if you will.

Asking that government step in and raise taxes on both yourself and your competitors is certainly smarter than just sending in a cheque so that you put yourself in a position of disadvantage in relation to the competitors that don't send in a cheque. It helps avoid a tragedy of the commons, and doesn't rely on putting those of good will at a disadvantage for minimal gain.


You're forgetting that the people who say "Send in a check" are the people who cause the tragedy of the commons.
 
2012-10-12 01:36:48 PM

rthanu: The simple truth is that taxes need to go up for everyone above the poverty line.


Basically, this. But unlike the middle class, the affluent can afford a hike now since they don't live paycheck to paycheck.
 
2012-10-12 01:37:04 PM
I liked when Biden said last night that taxes should go up because people with tons of money didn't "need" it.

Oh wait.. I didn't like that at all because that established the argument that the government can determine what you "need" and then help itself to the rest.

/fark off Biden.
 
2012-10-12 01:37:27 PM

HeartBurnKid: You're forgetting that the people who say "Send in a check" are the people who causecelebrate the tragedy of the commons.

 
2012-10-12 01:38:00 PM

ScouserDuck: I liked when Biden said last night that taxes should go up because people with tons of money didn't "need" it.

Oh wait.. I didn't like that at all because that established the argument that the government can determine what you "need" and then help itself to the rest.

/fark off Biden.



Oh be quiet you entitled trust fund baby.
 
2012-10-12 01:42:49 PM

coyo: Raising taxes on the rich by a small amount is projected to produce a half trillion in revenue. I say treat the capital gains as any other income. I say treat it like Adam Smith would have rental income treated.


And eliminate the corporate income tax, right?

Otherwise you are taxing investment income from corporations at a combined 57% rate statutory rate for high earners. Each dollar in corporate income is taxed at 35% statutory rate (25% effective rate on average), with the remaining 65 cents being taxed at 35% for high income earners taking another 23 cents.

I know the average left wing farker would be fine taking 51-57% of investment income in federal taxes (ignoring any state or local income taxes), but most of America would not.

rthanu: The simple truth is that taxes need to go up for everyone above the poverty line.


Correct. When are we expecting to eliminate the Bush and Obama tax cuts for those under $250k? It would raise over 5x as much revenue as just eliminating the cuts for the rich. Phase 'em ALL out starting now.
 
2012-10-12 01:43:35 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: rthanu: The simple truth is that taxes need to go up for everyone above the poverty line.

Basically, this. But unlike the middle class, the affluent can afford a hike now since they don't live paycheck to paycheck.


Bullshiat. Check the phones in the middle class's pockets. Is that some essential item when it's an iphone5(or whatever) with data plans costing them double what they could get away with? If you are middle class and living paycheck to paycheck, it is because you spend too much money.

I realize that our economy depends on us spending too much money, but there must be sacrifices made somewhere, somehow. And not just the rich. As tenpoundsofhate put it, taxing the hell out of the rich alone won't get us out of the hole.
 
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