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(Slate)   Old man yells at clod   (slate.com) divider line 136
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3151 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Oct 2012 at 10:57 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 12:32:50 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: You have to win on substance, not style.


The first debate is on the phone. It's for you.

/Low information voters are the ones who are still undecided
 
2012-10-12 12:37:10 PM  

Cletus C.: unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: bdub77: Two more debates. I think Obama will do well enough to win Ohio and pretty much sew up the electoral win.

Wow. People see what they want to see, I guess. Biden ...

How do you think Mitt/Ryan will cut taxes 20%, and drop unemployment below 4%?

they say they will, and you support them. I'd love to hear, in your own words, how you think that will happen?

also, if you buy the Mitt plan I have a plan that will guaranteed double your money in one week. Now the details are complicated, and I'll need your money before I get into those. How about I put you down for $100 bucks? also vote Mitt.

In answer to your question, Biden seemed like a surly old man acting rude, condescending and quite bizarrely for a guy's who's the farking vice president.

Ryan was more calm and had some decent comebacks.

I don't know who won ultimately but farklibs are so desperate for something to grasp onto their creating their own dark timeline.


When someone doesn't have a record to run on, they try and paint a picture of the other guy that others should run from.

Ryan got burned and you know it, that is why you fail to include facts.
 
2012-10-12 12:38:38 PM  

Cletus C.: mrshowrules: Cletus C.: If you notice, when Ryan was talking some bullshiat anecdote (from the heart) story, Biden didn't smirk, laugh or interrupt. He was respectful.

If you didn't see the debate you should have just said so.

If you didn't read my post you should have just said so.

I did say so. Seven posts up.


OK. Anyways, my point was Biden was respectful IMHO. He also didn't smirk during Ryan's closing remarks. The times Biden jumped in / interrupted, it actually started sounding like a debate. Albeit one sided.

Most debates I've seen normally at list one person complaining "let me finish" or complaining about an interruption at least at one point. Ryan looked unprepared for this which was a failure on his part. Also, he knows he comes of as smarmy prick so he made the conscious decision to look "nice" during the debate. Also back-fired and when he complained that Biden was upset because the DNC lead was slipping (I paraphase) he really came off like a whiney biatch IMHO.
 
2012-10-12 12:38:45 PM  

Cletus C.: Ryan was more calm and had some decent comebacks.


Moderator: "What would you do in Syria?"

Ryan: "Well, what we SHOULD HAVE DONE was..."

Moderator: "Yeah, but...what would YOU do NOW?"

Ryan: "Well, we wouldn't do this, and..."

Moderator: "But...WHAT THE FARK WOULD YOU ACTUALLY DO?"

Ryan: "Uh...pass?"

Oh, and another favorite of mine last night:

Ryan: "Obama has said that if you can't run on your record, then you need to get the voters to run away from your opponent. And he's doing that. Now let's get back to why Obama is awful..."
 
2012-10-12 12:39:46 PM  

Bossk'sSegway: When someone doesn't have a record to run on, they try and paint a picture of the other guy that others should run from.


The comeback to that one is, "I'd be happy to debate you and the governor on policy, but for some reason, you guys refuse to explain your policies."
 
2012-10-12 12:42:10 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Cletus C.: Ryan was more calm and had some decent comebacks.

Moderator: "What would you do in Syria?"

Ryan: "Well, what we SHOULD HAVE DONE was..."

Moderator: "Yeah, but...what would YOU do NOW?"

Ryan: "Well, we wouldn't do this, and..."

Moderator: "But...WHAT THE FARK WOULD YOU ACTUALLY DO?"

Ryan: "Uh...pass?"

Oh, and another favorite of mine last night:

Ryan: "Obama has said that if you can't run on your record, then you need to get the voters to run away from your opponent. And he's doing that. Now let's get back to why Obama is awful..."


I enjoyed Ryan essentially saying that fertilized eggs are human beings... however, if that human being was created by rape... fark it... kill that guy!

I think Biden's full of shiat about his acceptance of the Catholic church's view on abortion, but at least he's not going to try and force everyone else to accept it in practice.
 
2012-10-12 12:42:27 PM  

Delay: mrshowrules: If you notice, when Ryan was talking some bullshiat anecdote (from the heart) story, Biden didn't smirk, laugh or interrupt. He was respectful.

The bullshiat anecdote from the heart story was about a car crash that left two children paralyzed and the father's response. Ryan and the Republicans know Biden lost his wife and child in a car crash and still grieves. The bullshiat anecdote was coached to Ryan to put Biden off his game. Karma is going to get you Ryan. You never know when, you never know where, then when you least expect it ... And IMO you will deserve every moment of the pay back.


Maybe I'm a little naive to think that they could be so evil. Biden frequently talks about this tragedy as part of his own personal story. To go their first, would certainly be evil.

However, even if the story is true (am I being naive again) and they decided to go with it anyways it is at minimum a very assholish play.
 
2012-10-12 12:44:37 PM  

Mercutio74: Dodge one? He refused to give any substantive answer to any question except regarding abortion.


How could he when Biden interrupted him nearly EVERY time he spoke?
 
2012-10-12 12:45:14 PM  

BFlyer: It's amazing to read Farker political comments. Where do you all live? It's amazing how different it is from where I live, and it's most likely the same country.


You may have never left the state before, but I must inform you that most Americans do not live in Kansas. It's a big world out there.
 
2012-10-12 12:45:36 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Cletus C.: Wow. People see what they want to see, I guess. Biden didn't impale himself on the microphone, so he won. Geesh.

He won because of two things:

1) He called Ryan out for the lies he told and for his non-specificity.
2) He told the truth.


I'll simplify this further, Biden won because he showed the Country that he would be a better President.
 
2012-10-12 12:46:32 PM  

HAMMERTOE: How could he when Biden interrupted him nearly EVERY time he spoke?


You realize Biden never interrupted Ryan during the 2 minutes each had after a new question was asked?
 
2012-10-12 12:48:24 PM  

SundaesChild: Delay: mrshowrules: If you notice, when Ryan was talking some bullshiat anecdote (from the heart) story, Biden didn't smirk, laugh or interrupt. He was respectful.

The bullshiat anecdote from the heart story was about a car crash that left two children paralyzed and the father's response. Ryan and the Republicans know Biden lost his wife and child in a car crash and still grieves. The bullshiat anecdote was coached to Ryan to put Biden off his game. Karma is going to get you Ryan. You never know when, you never know where, then when you least expect it ... And IMO you will deserve every moment of the pay back.

That was a dick move on Ryan's part.


It was so obviously a calculated move that I had to wonder at the time what Ryan was doing. Why bring up a car crash, of all things, when you know your opponent's own history trumps it in terms of audience sympathy, essentially. I eventually figured that Ryan brought it up when he did because he knew Biden would bring it up eventually, and he wanted to do it on his own terms so that Biden couldn't use it to make a larger point when he wanted to. Politics is an ugly game.

As for Ryan's story about Romney helping that family, I'm not sure it worked the way he wanted it to. I've seen this story, and another one where Romney supposedly moved heaven and earth to help someone find his missing daughter. True, it does put a spotlight on Romney's decency in those instances. But what I took from those examples (and probably what some other people will, too) is: If you happen to be lucky enough to enter Romney's inner circle, he can be very generous. That's great if you're in that inner circle, but means nothing for the rest of the country.
 
2012-10-12 12:50:09 PM  

unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: bdub77: Two more debates. I think Obama will do well enough to win Ohio and pretty much sew up the electoral win.

Wow. People see what they want to see, I guess. Biden ...

How do you think Mitt/Ryan will cut taxes 20%, and drop unemployment below 4%?

they say they will, and you support them. I'd love to hear, in your own words, how you think that will happen?

also, if you buy the Mitt plan I have a plan that will guaranteed double your money in one week. Now the details are complicated, and I'll need your money before I get into those. How about I put you down for $100 bucks? also vote Mitt.

In answer to your question, Biden seemed like a surly old man acting rude, condescending and quite bizarrely for a guy's who's the farking vice president.

Ryan was more calm and had some decent comebacks.

I don't know who won ultimately but farklibs are so desperate for something to grasp onto their creating their own dark timeline.

you avoided my question quite clumsily. try again.


I've tried this before unsuccessfully but here you go:

Send your question to the Romney/Ryan campaign. I can't speak for them. I'd like to hear a better explanation of his tax plan myself. The idea that the details need to be negotiated in a bipartisan way sounds appealing but Romney needs to go into those talks with solid, real proposals that can serve as a starting point.
 
2012-10-12 12:50:49 PM  

Mercutio74: Lando Lincoln: Cletus C.: Ryan was more calm and had some decent comebacks.

Moderator: "What would you do in Syria?"

Ryan: "Well, what we SHOULD HAVE DONE was..."

Moderator: "Yeah, but...what would YOU do NOW?"

Ryan: "Well, we wouldn't do this, and..."

Moderator: "But...WHAT THE FARK WOULD YOU ACTUALLY DO?"

Ryan: "Uh...pass?"

Oh, and another favorite of mine last night:

Ryan: "Obama has said that if you can't run on your record, then you need to get the voters to run away from your opponent. And he's doing that. Now let's get back to why Obama is awful..."

I enjoyed Ryan essentially saying that fertilized eggs are human beings... however, if that human being was created by rape... fark it... kill that guy!

I think Biden's full of shiat about his acceptance of the Catholic church's view on abortion, but at least he's not going to try and force everyone else to accept it in practice.


Biden's answer was good, but I wish he had included us godless heathens in his comment about not forcing his religious beliefs on others.
 
2012-10-12 12:51:09 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Cletus C.: Ryan was more calm and had some decent comebacks.

Just having "decent comebacks," if they're vague and untrue doesn't win you a debate. You have to win on substance, not style.


Despite history showing otherwise in many cases, I guess.
 
2012-10-12 12:51:11 PM  

Cletus C.: Send your question to the Romney/Ryan campaign. I can't speak for them. I'd like to hear a better explanation of his tax plan myself. The idea that the details need to be negotiated in a bipartisan way sounds appealing but Romney needs to go into those talks with solid, real proposals that can serve as a starting point.


I'll give you a hint: the reason he doesn't have a plan yet is because the numbers don't add up.
 
2012-10-12 12:51:34 PM  

Cletus C.: unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: bdub77: Two more debates. I think Obama will do well enough to win Ohio and pretty much sew up the electoral win.

Wow. People see what they want to see, I guess. Biden ...

How do you think Mitt/Ryan will cut taxes 20%, and drop unemployment below 4%?

they say they will, and you support them. I'd love to hear, in your own words, how you think that will happen?

also, if you buy the Mitt plan I have a plan that will guaranteed double your money in one week. Now the details are complicated, and I'll need your money before I get into those. How about I put you down for $100 bucks? also vote Mitt.

In answer to your question, Biden seemed like a surly old man acting rude, condescending and quite bizarrely for a guy's who's the farking vice president.

Ryan was more calm and had some decent comebacks.

I don't know who won ultimately but farklibs are so desperate for something to grasp onto their creating their own dark timeline.


Hey look everyone - we discovered Steve Doocy's FARK handle!
 
2012-10-12 12:51:50 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Mercutio74: Dodge one? He refused to give any substantive answer to any question except regarding abortion.

How could he when Biden interrupted him nearly EVERY time he spoke?


The moderator asked him specifically to elaborate on at least two occasions. Once regarding the tax plan and once regarding Syria. Also, the moderator interrupted Biden for talking when he shouldn't on at least two occasions.

Also, I seem to recall both men having the opportunity to speak for long stretches without either one interrupting the other. Did you watch the debate?
 
2012-10-12 12:52:22 PM  

Cletus C.: cameroncrazy1984: Cletus C.: Ryan was more calm and had some decent comebacks.

Just having "decent comebacks," if they're vague and untrue doesn't win you a debate. You have to win on substance, not style.

Despite history showing otherwise in many cases, I guess.


This one in particular, yes.
 
2012-10-12 12:54:15 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Mercutio74: Dodge one? He refused to give any substantive answer to any question except regarding abortion.

How could he when Biden interrupted him nearly EVERY time he spoke?


Debates are supposed to be back and forth, point and counterpoint. They aren't supposed to be unchallenged blocks of alternating talking points.
 
2012-10-12 12:54:25 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Mercutio74: Dodge one? He refused to give any substantive answer to any question except regarding abortion.

How could he when Biden interrupted him nearly EVERY time he spoke lied?


Fixed that for... no wait, you're right too.
 
2012-10-12 12:56:45 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Cletus C.: Send your question to the Romney/Ryan campaign. I can't speak for them. I'd like to hear a better explanation of his tax plan myself. The idea that the details need to be negotiated in a bipartisan way sounds appealing but Romney needs to go into those talks with solid, real proposals that can serve as a starting point.

I'll give you a hint: the reason he doesn't have a plan yet is because the numbers don't add up.


Well, Team Obama has added them up and determined tax breaks for the rich, tax increases for the middle class. A disingenuous interpretation based on a policy center report that Romney counters with an ill-defined plan to do away with deductions and loopholes for the rich that would result in them actually paying more.

What to believe? In campaigns, the less you believe the better, sadly.
 
2012-10-12 12:58:03 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Mercutio74: Dodge one? He refused to give any substantive answer to any question except regarding abortion.

How could he when Biden interrupted him nearly EVERY time he spoke?


Everyone knows that VPs will never be interrupted. Clearly, Biden was playing dirty by not affording Ryan the chance to interrupt him back, and Ryan showed what a real VP looks like.

// if Ryan can't take what Biden did last night, how's he gonna be when the King of Saudi Arabia rhetorically pushes him around?
// or Medvedev or Ahmadinejad or even Netanyahu?
// is he just gonna wait until they're done, then make the same point they just refuted with their interruption and claim victory?
// a winning strategy
 
2012-10-12 12:59:00 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Honestly I think it was pretty much a draw. Ryan did ok, while Biden energized both his party and the republicans. His problem is that he really did come off as rude, even though Ryan got called on a bunch of stuff. Biden tried to be aggressive to counter Romney in the last debate, but Ryan isn't Romney and I think he over did it. One of my very conservative coworkers this morning argued Romney respected the President not the moderator, while Biden tried to run over everybody.

Televised debates are about appearance as much as substance and I think Biden may have undone the fact he won the debate by being over aggressive. Romney looked strong last time only because Obama phoned it in. Biden looked rude because Ryan was there and ready. Overall though I don't think either one did anything last night to sway voters at all.

/Before you yell at me, no I'm not voting for Romney


When fixing the economy is a fundamental message of your campaign, and you've announced a 20% tax cut across the board but can't provide one single detail about your plan, you're hardly ready. Biden looked rude because he was pushy and Ryan's failure to defend himself, whether unable or unwilling to do so, made him look a bit like a kid being picked on by the grumpy old man.

/not yelling at you
 
2012-10-12 01:19:34 PM  

Cletus C.: unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: bdub77: Two more debates. I think Obama will do well enough to win Ohio and pretty much sew up the electoral win.

Wow. People see what they want to see, I guess. Biden ...

How do you think Mitt/Ryan will cut taxes 20%, and drop unemployment below 4%?

they say they will, and you support them. I'd love to hear, in your own words, how you think that will happen?

also, if you buy the Mitt plan I have a plan that will guaranteed double your money in one week. Now the details are complicated, and I'll need your money before I get into those. How about I put you down for $100 bucks? also vote Mitt.

In answer to your question, Biden seemed like a surly old man acting rude, condescending and quite bizarrely for a guy's who's the farking vice president.

Ryan was more calm and had some decent comebacks.

I don't know who won ultimately but farklibs are so desperate for something to grasp onto their creating their own dark timeline.

you avoided my question quite clumsily. try again.

I've tried this before unsuccessfully but here you go:

Send your question to the Romney/Ryan campaign. I can't speak for them. I'd like to hear a better explanation of his tax plan myself. The idea that the details need to be negotiated in a bipartisan way sounds appealing but Romney needs to go into those talks with solid, real proposals that can serve as a starting point.



I see why you didn't want to answer, there is no answer. What are you supporting exactly?

the idea that they need to work out the plan with both dems and reps in congress isn't an acceptable reason for not giving any details to back up this great plan. It's just an obvious aside that's being used as a smokescreen for their lack of ideas.

it's not a plan, it's goals.
Joe called Ryan on this as he should have. Their biggest selling point for voting for them is paper thin and is just wishful thinking dressed up as thoughtful policy.
 
2012-10-12 01:20:09 PM  
Cletus C. btw thanks for actually answering honestly.
 
2012-10-12 01:25:14 PM  
imageshack.us
 
2012-10-12 01:42:03 PM  
Posted this to FB today ...

What's the difference between last night's Vice Presidential Debate and the Republican National Convention? The old man yelling at the empty chair actually won last night.

// Here all week ...
// Try the veal ...
 
2012-10-12 02:09:34 PM  
Politics tab headline of the year candidate.
 
2012-10-12 02:24:43 PM  
You people complaining about Biden's interruptions simply aren't seeing the full picture.

Ryan is an awkward public speaker at best. He doesn't have the easy confidence of a Reagan or Clinton, he can't speak of matters on the fly but is always regurgitating prepared lines and comments. Along with that regurgitation comes a tendency to excessively pause between sentences as he mentally queues up the next line. Biden watched Ryan's speeches/interviews and spotted the weakness just like any other political junkie paying attention to the election. Its a double weakness that Biden exploited, the pauses allowed the interruptions to happen and the stiffness prevented Ryan from smoothly rebutting. Politicians talk over each other all the time and the good speakers now how to respond to it and to shut it down.

Getting mad at Biden completely misses the point, if Ryan had skill or experience he wouldn't have been so thoroughly humiliated in Debating 101. On the plus side for you Ryan fans I bet he won't ever let that happen to himself again, your boy will dust himself off and he'll be back in the game in 2016.
 
2012-10-12 02:42:29 PM  

mrshowrules:

Biden won because he showed the Country that he would be a better President.


.....aaaand we're done here folks. Thread over.
 
2012-10-12 03:43:10 PM  

WalkingCarpet: Meanwhile over at Fox News...

[i46.tinypic.com image 674x704]


Wow, they're downright panicking!
 
2012-10-12 03:53:27 PM  

BuckTurgidson: WalkingCarpet: Meanwhile over at Fox News...

[i46.tinypic.com image 674x704]

Wow, they're downright panicking!


I love the Bias Alert.
inoculating their cult following into rejecting news that doesn't follow the Fox line.
 
2012-10-12 06:03:27 PM  
Republicans are helafunny when Democrats fight back.
The Problem is that Dems have a heart and feel sorry for them and stop when they should be beating the Derp out of them
 
2012-10-12 07:21:09 PM  
Ryan has a truly unfortunate face.
 
2012-10-13 10:08:47 AM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Ryan has a truly unfortunate face.


He has the kind of face that says, "What, me worry?"
 
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