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(Reuters)   Supreme Court is divided over an affirmative action case involving college admissions. Come on, why shouldn't minorities have the same opportunity to get mired hopelessly deep in college loan debt like anyone else?   (reuters.com) divider line 300
    More: Followup, Justice Kennedy, supreme courts, University and college admissions, Justice Antonin Scalia, Solicitor General of the United States, strict scrutiny, Stephen Breyer, Chief Justice John Roberts  
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3919 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Oct 2012 at 7:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 07:47:16 AM  
Suuby apparently isn't clear on the concept of "same opportunity".
 
2012-10-12 07:47:27 AM  
Reverse racism isn't racism.
 
2012-10-12 07:47:29 AM  
Or....we could just judge people not be the color of their skin but by the content of their charter, or in this case, mind.
 
2012-10-12 07:48:01 AM  
Because thanks to Affirmative action, college students are not being weighed on academics and potential alone, but based on their race?

Just a thought for those who weren't in the top 10% of their High School Class in Texas.
 
2012-10-12 07:53:12 AM  
Affirmative action actually harms minorities. They get in over their heads, so to speak, and have a lower rate of graduation from more prestigious schools that they otherwise would not have qualified for.

Source: NPR
 
2012-10-12 07:53:28 AM  
Good work guys. Seriously, you all nailed it, and I have nothing more to add.
 
2012-10-12 08:00:22 AM  
Affirmative action needs to be done away with everywhere. Let's start at the top... with the office of the President.
 
2012-10-12 08:02:45 AM  
It makes me giggle that "minority" in a college setting has come to mean black or hispanic, and asians are not included.
 
2012-10-12 08:03:45 AM  

Silly Jesus: Reverse racism isn't racism.


I'm not interested in the content of your statement. However, if you are a member of a protected minority, I will agree with it.
 
2012-10-12 08:06:30 AM  
While I agree with the idea of promoting education and opportunities for minorities, it would be better for all disadvantaged people, no matter their race, to get some sort of preference instead of basing it on race. Poor people, whether white, black, hispanic, or indians, are disadvantaged more greatly than an upper-middle class minority.
 
2012-10-12 08:09:15 AM  

zamboni: Silly Jesus: Reverse racism isn't racism.

I'm not interested in the content of your statement. However, if you are a member of a protected minority, I will agree with it.


www.legaljuice.com
 
2012-10-12 08:10:24 AM  

Rodrigo Hernandez: While I agree with the idea of promoting education and opportunities for minorities, it would be better for all disadvantaged people, no matter their race, to get some sort of preference instead of basing it on race. Poor people, whether white, black, hispanic, or indians, are disadvantaged more greatly than an upper-middle class minority.


of course, that would be true equity, but then some blacks might escape from the democratic party plantation.
 
2012-10-12 08:13:52 AM  
Affirmative action helps minorities?

Since when...?




www.profilebrand.com
 
2012-10-12 08:18:21 AM  

Silly Jesus: Affirmative action actually harms minorities. They get in over their heads, so to speak, and have a lower rate of graduation from more prestigious schools that they otherwise would not have qualified for.

Source: NPR


I'm sure that's probably true--the problem is the alternative--which is zero representation of anyone but European or Asian descent at any high end American schools. Which then throws in our face AND highlights institutionalized racism all at the same time.

Considering where these kids are starting from, Affirmative Action is sort of like a necessary evil. It is inherently unfair to make up for the societal unfairness of simply being born a different color. I'm not sure if that bodes well for it being constitutional, but I certainly support it.
 
2012-10-12 08:18:25 AM  
Long ago I attended William Paterson College in NJ. I stopped taking classes there the day I saw a brother bopping about with a huge boombox radio on his shoulder, wearing a thick wool cap on a very hot day. People that play a 15 year old stereotype give me a sad.
 
2012-10-12 08:22:13 AM  
Basing affirmative action on race is a practice that, in my opinion, should be ended.

However, I'd like to see a college admissions affirmative action program based on poverty and first generation college students. That way, you help the exact people you want- including the poor white and Asian kids.
 
2012-10-12 08:23:06 AM  
Legalized racism, pure and simple.
 
2012-10-12 08:23:32 AM  

Molavian: It makes me giggle that "minority" in a college setting has come to mean black or hispanic, and asians are not included.


That's because there aren't enough of them.
 
2012-10-12 08:25:11 AM  

what_now: Basing affirmative action on race is a practice that, in my opinion, should be ended.

However, I'd like to see a college admissions affirmative action program based on poverty and first generation college students. That way, you help the exact people you want- including the poor white and Asian kids.


So even if you scored a 20 on ACT and i scored 32, you should get in first because you are poor?
 
2012-10-12 08:25:26 AM  

KrispyKritter: Long ago I attended William Paterson College in NJ. I stopped taking classes there the day I saw a brother bopping about with a huge boombox radio on his shoulder, wearing a thick wool cap on a very hot day. People that play a 15 year old stereotype give me a sad.


Are you saying that seeing that guy made you decide to stop attending classes or was it something else entirely and you just happened to see that dude on the same day?
 
2012-10-12 08:26:39 AM  

TimonC346: I'm sure that's probably true--the problem is the alternative--which is zero representation of anyone but European or Asian descent at any high end American schools. Which then throws in our face AND highlights institutionalized racism all at the same time.

Considering where these kids are starting from, Affirmative Action is sort of like a necessary evil. It is inherently unfair to make up for the societal unfairness of simply being born a different color. I'm not sure if that bodes well for it being constitutional, but I certainly support it.


Race, ethnicity, color, religion, etc should have NOTHING to do with getting in to college. Affirmative action hurts otherwise qualified candidates from getting there.

College admissions should be based on scores, and the prospective student's competence.
 
2012-10-12 08:26:48 AM  

what_now: Basing affirmative action on race is a practice that, in my opinion, should be ended.

However, I'd like to see a college admissions affirmative action program based on poverty and first generation college students. That way, you help the exact people you want- including the poor white and Asian kids.


SillyJesus posted a great piece by NPR that talked about statistics where some minority students just aren't ready. Colleges, if using race based admissions, should help them get ready and allow for an extra year to get the kids up to speed. If Colleges are willing to undertake a project to better a student based on race, go the full mile.
 
2012-10-12 08:28:50 AM  

Rodrigo Hernandez: While I agree with the idea of promoting education and opportunities for minorities, it would be better for all disadvantaged people, no matter their race, to get some sort of preference instead of basing it on race. Poor people, whether white, black, hispanic, or indians, are disadvantaged more greatly than an upper-middle class minority.


This.

As for the headline, minorities have the same opportunities for college they shouldn't get special ones based on race.
 
2012-10-12 08:29:13 AM  

Rodrigo Hernandez: While I agree with the idea of promoting education and opportunities for minorities, it would be better for all disadvantaged people, no matter their race, to get some sort of preference instead of basing it on race. Poor people, whether white, black, hispanic, or indians, are disadvantaged more greatly than an upper-middle class minority.


Yeah, because if there's anything a university needs, it to increase the percentage of its students who have losers for parents, and are therefore double-dosing the loser gene.

On the second point I agree. I know of cases where universities lower standards for some races to up their percentages...as long as Joe Dark can pay the bill. In the end, no minority was helped.
 
2012-10-12 08:31:26 AM  

Joe Blowme: what_now: Basing affirmative action on race is a practice that, in my opinion, should be ended.

However, I'd like to see a college admissions affirmative action program based on poverty and first generation college students. That way, you help the exact people you want- including the poor white and Asian kids.

So even if you scored a 20 on ACT and i scored 32, you should get in first because you are poor?


Should the ability to do well on a standardized test be the only criteria for entry?
 
2012-10-12 08:33:35 AM  

Rodrigo Hernandez: While I agree with the idea of promoting education and opportunities for minorities, it would be better for all disadvantaged people, no matter their race, to get some sort of preference instead of basing it on race. Poor people, whether white, black, hispanic, or indians, are disadvantaged more greatly than an upper-middle class minority.


Your statement makes a certain amount of sense. When I was very young I opposed affirmative action. One of the smartest people at my high school was a black female. I thought, obviously, anyone would trip over themselves to accept her to their college or hire her. I thought affirmative action was insulting to people like her. Then I began to work at actual jobs versus, for instance, babysitting.

By the time I was 23 years old, I had done a 180. I had worked at places where I was not allowed to even provide an application to black people. I was required to say the business was out of applications. Resumes received from black people were not even kept on file. They were tossed directly into the trash. Funny thing about jobs like that, they manage to make the "acceptable" people allowed to work in such a place perfectly miserable. An owner/manager that dedicated to acting unjustly and inequitably certainly isn't going to treat the people s/he does hire fairly or respectfully.

I concede that other, non-race based, discrimination happens. After picking up a little experience and learning to stand my ground a bit, I worked in a retail store where I refused to have anything at all to do with applications. Personnel accepting applications had been directed to code the application indicating the race of the applicant and whether the applicant was fat. The store set a limited number of positions that could be held by non-white people and would not exceed that number. If you were fat, however, you weren't getting hired, period.

When you are young you imagine that people strive to be as intelligent, logical, and fair minded as possible. Then you live for a while and realize there are people who wallow in ignorance and darkness; that are deeply proud of their ignorance. That's when you realize some form of affirmative action is necessary though it may be an imperfect solution.

Sorry about going novel again. Lately, I've had thoughts and words bursting out of my ears and nostrils. It's really kind of gross.
 
2012-10-12 08:34:18 AM  

TimonC346: Silly Jesus: Affirmative action actually harms minorities. They get in over their heads, so to speak, and have a lower rate of graduation from more prestigious schools that they otherwise would not have qualified for.

Source: NPR

I'm sure that's probably true--the problem is the alternative--which is zero representation of anyone but European or Asian descent at any high end American schools. Which then throws in our face AND highlights institutionalized racism all at the same time.

Considering where these kids are starting from, Affirmative Action is sort of like a necessary evil. It is inherently unfair to make up for the societal unfairness of simply being born a different color. I'm not sure if that bodes well for it being constitutional, but I certainly support it.


Those would be good points if all white people were well off and all minorities were poor.

If you want to address inequalities in the real world there should be preference for poor and people from shiatty schools.
 
2012-10-12 08:35:24 AM  
Incidentally, UT says race wasn't a factor in the girl not getting accepted. Maybe they just didn't want someone who blames her failures on other people.
 
2012-10-12 08:35:44 AM  
taurusowner
Or....we could just judge people not be the color of their skin but by the content of their charter, or in this case, mind
.

Only a redneck, tea bagging fundamentalist would suggest that we rely on the "content of their character ..."
 
2012-10-12 08:35:56 AM  
While we have the hood up, can we get rid of athletic scholarships? Admitting someone to a college because they can dribble well is dumb.
 
2012-10-12 08:36:56 AM  

Brontes: what_now: Basing affirmative action on race is a practice that, in my opinion, should be ended.

However, I'd like to see a college admissions affirmative action program based on poverty and first generation college students. That way, you help the exact people you want- including the poor white and Asian kids.

SillyJesus posted a great piece by NPR that talked about statistics where some minority students just aren't ready. Colleges, if using race based admissions, should help them get ready and allow for an extra year to get the kids up to speed. If Colleges are willing to undertake a project to better a student based on race, go the full mile.


This.

There are schools that are teaching from decades old textbooks. There are schools with overcrowded classrooms. There are schools with inadequate resources. We can't allocate an admission advantage and then not alter the expecations upon admissions.
 
2012-10-12 08:37:31 AM  
What an utter waste of time this case is. Regardless of its merits, Elena Justice Kagan, has recused herself because she did some work on it when she was Solicitor General. So there's a 4-4 court, which will come down along predictable lines. When the Court's vote is tied, the law in question must remain unchanged.

Based on what I have read, this young lady would not have been admitted regardless of any consideration of race. Her HS academic performance and SAT scores simply were not high enough and her composite score in UT's formula just a tad too low for her to be admitted. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.
 
2012-10-12 08:38:56 AM  
This thread smells like butthurt.
 
2012-10-12 08:39:06 AM  

Rodrigo Hernandez: While I agree with the idea of promoting education and opportunities for minorities, it would be better for all disadvantaged people, no matter their race, to get some sort of preference instead of basing it on race. Poor people, whether white, black, hispanic, or indians, are disadvantaged more greatly than an upper-middle class minority.


This.

Let's not preted what affluent kids have more bootstrappy gentic material. They were given advantages that the poor children were not. Affirmative Action should be geared at redistributing advantage.
 
2012-10-12 08:39:42 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Joe Blowme: what_now: Basing affirmative action on race is a practice that, in my opinion, should be ended.

However, I'd like to see a college admissions affirmative action program based on poverty and first generation college students. That way, you help the exact people you want- including the poor white and Asian kids.

So even if you scored a 20 on ACT and i scored 32, you should get in first because you are poor?

Should the ability to do well on a standardized test be the only criteria for entry?


ACT and SAT, how do they work? So everyone gets in. Then what?
 
2012-10-12 08:40:18 AM  

Brontes: what_now: Basing affirmative action on race is a practice that, in my opinion, should be ended.

However, I'd like to see a college admissions affirmative action program based on poverty and first generation college students. That way, you help the exact people you want- including the poor white and Asian kids.

SillyJesus posted a great piece by NPR that talked about statistics where some minority students just aren't ready. Colleges, if using race based admissions, should help them get ready and allow for an extra year to get the kids up to speed. If Colleges are willing to undertake a project to better a student based on race, go the full mile.


This is why I started at a community college. My high school / middle school wasn't great and I was so undereducated math wise I had to start math from the beginning all over again. I still hate math.
 
2012-10-12 08:40:50 AM  

Joe Blowme: what_now: Basing affirmative action on race is a practice that, in my opinion, should be ended.

However, I'd like to see a college admissions affirmative action program based on poverty and first generation college students. That way, you help the exact people you want- including the poor white and Asian kids.

So even if you scored a 20 on ACT and i scored 32, you should get in first because you are poor?


Obviously there have to be standards. But admissions is not simply test scores, it's a whole metric of things- especially at the better schools. If a kid who grew up in a affluent suburb with parents who are college educated professionals has the same grades, skill set and test scores as a kid who grew up in poverty, went to a shiatty public high school and has no history of higher education I his family, then the second kid has clearly worked harder.
 
2012-10-12 08:40:59 AM  

Joe Blowme: what_now: Basing affirmative action on race is a practice that, in my opinion, should be ended.

However, I'd like to see a college admissions affirmative action program based on poverty and first generation college students. That way, you help the exact people you want- including the poor white and Asian kids.

So even if you scored a 20 on ACT and i scored 32, you should get in first because you are poor?


If you think this is the way Affirmative Action works then you should probably educate yourself before forming an opinion.
 
2012-10-12 08:41:27 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Incidentally, UT says race wasn't a factor in the girl not getting accepted. Maybe they just didn't want someone who blames her failures on other people.


The only factor that came into play was how incredibly handsome this girl is.
 
2012-10-12 08:41:49 AM  

TimonC346: Silly Jesus: Affirmative action actually harms minorities. They get in over their heads, so to speak, and have a lower rate of graduation from more prestigious schools that they otherwise would not have qualified for.

Source: NPR

I'm sure that's probably true--the problem is the alternative--which is zero representation of anyone but European or Asian descent at any high end American schools. Which then throws in our face AND highlights institutionalized racism all at the same time.

Considering where these kids are starting from, Affirmative Action is sort of like a necessary evil. It is inherently unfair to make up for the societal unfairness of simply being born a different color. I'm not sure if that bodes well for it being constitutional, but I certainly support it.


^^^^^^^^^^

Wow! Just come out and say what you really think, people of certain races are genetically inferior. That is what you are saying, I simply summed up your thought using fewer words.
 
2012-10-12 08:43:40 AM  

TimonC346: Silly Jesus: Affirmative action actually harms minorities. They get in over their heads, so to speak, and have a lower rate of graduation from more prestigious schools that they otherwise would not have qualified for.

Source: NPR

I'm sure that's probably true--the problem is the alternative--which is zero representation of anyone but European or Asian descent at any high end American schools. Which then throws in our face AND highlights institutionalized racism all at the same time.

Considering where these kids are starting from, Affirmative Action is sort of like a necessary evil. It is inherently unfair to make up for the societal unfairness of simply being born a different color. I'm not sure if that bodes well for it being constitutional, but I certainly support it.


Asian people cannot be racist because they are not institutionalized. Traditionally racism is something that has been exlusively the domain of the white male power structure. To undo centuries of oppression, slavery and rape affirmitive action is needed to place white males below women and people of color. Centuries of oppression are not reversed in a few years, thus affirmitive action is needed until whites in power represent their true numbers on this black planet (a tiny minority).

Asians only achieve status due to the "model minority" stigma. The whites say jump and they say "how high" look good little worker bees in this hyper capitalist dystopia. I don't feel the need to apologize that blacks and browns have taken an alternate path and decide to take what is owed to us.
 
2012-10-12 08:43:55 AM  
Lets put it this way. Who is more likely to have better grades: Honey Boo Boo or Sasha Obama?
 
2012-10-12 08:45:09 AM  

what_now: a kid who grew up in poverty, went to a shiatty public high school and has no history of higher education I his family


That's what community colleges are for.
 
2012-10-12 08:46:26 AM  

david_gaithersburg: TimonC346: Silly Jesus: Affirmative action actually harms minorities. They get in over their heads, so to speak, and have a lower rate of graduation from more prestigious schools that they otherwise would not have qualified for.

Source: NPR

I'm sure that's probably true--the problem is the alternative--which is zero representation of anyone but European or Asian descent at any high end American schools. Which then throws in our face AND highlights institutionalized racism all at the same time.

Considering where these kids are starting from, Affirmative Action is sort of like a necessary evil. It is inherently unfair to make up for the societal unfairness of simply being born a different color. I'm not sure if that bodes well for it being constitutional, but I certainly support it.

^^^^^^^^^^

Wow! Just come out and say what you really think, people of certain races are genetically inferior. That is what you are saying, I simply summed up your thought using fewer words.


You simply said what you always say in these threads. "I'm a poor, oppressed peckerwood and all the minorities are taking away my opportunities and I have a small penis :("
 
2012-10-12 08:47:39 AM  

Lunaville: Rodrigo Hernandez: While I agree with the idea of promoting education and opportunities for minorities, it would be better for all disadvantaged people, no matter their race, to get some sort of preference instead of basing it on race. Poor people, whether white, black, hispanic, or indians, are disadvantaged more greatly than an upper-middle class minority.

Your statement makes a certain amount of sense. When I was very young I opposed affirmative action. One of the smartest people at my high school was a black female. I thought, obviously, anyone would trip over themselves to accept her to their college or hire her. I thought affirmative action was insulting to people like her. Then I began to work at actual jobs versus, for instance, babysitting.

By the time I was 23 years old, I had done a 180. I had worked at places where I was not allowed to even provide an application to black people. I was required to say the business was out of applications. Resumes received from black people were not even kept on file. They were tossed directly into the trash. Funny thing about jobs like that, they manage to make the "acceptable" people allowed to work in such a place perfectly miserable. An owner/manager that dedicated to acting unjustly and inequitably certainly isn't going to treat the people s/he does hire fairly or respectfully.

I concede that other, non-race based, discrimination happens. After picking up a little experience and learning to stand my ground a bit, I worked in a retail store where I refused to have anything at all to do with applications. Personnel accepting applications had been directed to code the application indicating the race of the applicant and whether the applicant was fat. The store set a limited number of positions that could be held by non-white people and would not exceed that number. If you were fat, however, you weren't getting hired, period.

When you are young you imagine that people strive to be as intelligent, logical, and fair minded as possible. Then you live for a while and realize there are people who wallow in ignorance and darkness; that are deeply proud of their ignorance. That's when you realize some form of affirmative action is necessary though it may be an imperfect solution.

Sorry about going novel again. Lately, I've had thoughts and words bursting out of my ears and nostrils. It's really kind of gross.


This was a terrific post. Freakanomics basically tested your personal experience and agrees. In their test - they created a resume and sent it out with two names: a white sounding name and a black sounding name.

The person with the white sounding names received a LOT more calls despite the resume containing the exact same skills and experience.
 
2012-10-12 08:47:44 AM  

ChuDogg: TimonC346: Silly Jesus: Affirmative action actually harms minorities. They get in over their heads, so to speak, and have a lower rate of graduation from more prestigious schools that they otherwise would not have qualified for.

Source: NPR

I'm sure that's probably true--the problem is the alternative--which is zero representation of anyone but European or Asian descent at any high end American schools. Which then throws in our face AND highlights institutionalized racism all at the same time.

Considering where these kids are starting from, Affirmative Action is sort of like a necessary evil. It is inherently unfair to make up for the societal unfairness of simply being born a different color. I'm not sure if that bodes well for it being constitutional, but I certainly support it.

Asian people cannot be racist because they are not institutionalized. Traditionally racism is something that has been exlusively the domain of the white male power structure. To undo centuries of oppression, slavery and rape affirmitive action is needed to place white males below women and people of color. Centuries of oppression are not reversed in a few years, thus affirmitive action is needed until whites in power represent their true numbers on this black planet (a tiny minority).

Asians only achieve status due to the "model minority" stigma. The whites say jump and they say "how high" look good little worker bees in this hyper capitalist dystopia. I don't feel the need to apologize that blacks and browns have taken an alternate path and decide to take what is owed to us.


,
.
You appear to be qualified to be president with such stone age views.
 
2012-10-12 08:48:51 AM  

PallMall: Molavian: It makes me giggle that "minority" in a college setting has come to mean black or hispanic, and asians are not included.

That's because there aren't enough of them.


It's also because they come from a culture that values intelligence and education. Just sayin'.
 
2012-10-12 08:49:09 AM  

404 page not found: david_gaithersburg: TimonC346: Silly Jesus: Affirmative action actually harms minorities. They get in over their heads, so to speak, and have a lower rate of graduation from more prestigious schools that they otherwise would not have qualified for.

Source: NPR

I'm sure that's probably true--the problem is the alternative--which is zero representation of anyone but European or Asian descent at any high end American schools. Which then throws in our face AND highlights institutionalized racism all at the same time.

Considering where these kids are starting from, Affirmative Action is sort of like a necessary evil. It is inherently unfair to make up for the societal unfairness of simply being born a different color. I'm not sure if that bodes well for it being constitutional, but I certainly support it.

^^^^^^^^^^

Wow! Just come out and say what you really think, people of certain races are genetically inferior. That is what you are saying, I simply summed up your thought using fewer words.

You simply said what you always say in these threads. "I'm a poor, oppressed peckerwood and all the minorities are taking away my opportunities and I have a small penis :("


LOL, if that makes you feel better.
 
2012-10-12 08:49:14 AM  
If we get rid of affirmative action, we better just accept that white people no longer get into MIT.
 
2012-10-12 08:49:49 AM  
'MERICA!
where we're all equal

..until someone decides that a racial group is inferior and needs their help to be like everyone else.

so awesome
 
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