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(Reuters)   Supreme Court is divided over an affirmative action case involving college admissions. Come on, why shouldn't minorities have the same opportunity to get mired hopelessly deep in college loan debt like anyone else?   (reuters.com) divider line 300
    More: Followup, Justice Kennedy, supreme courts, University and college admissions, Justice Antonin Scalia, Solicitor General of the United States, strict scrutiny, Stephen Breyer, Chief Justice John Roberts  
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3917 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Oct 2012 at 7:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 09:29:39 AM  

Quick Fixer: david_gaithersburg: Quick Fixer: david_gaithersburg: TimonC346:

I'm sure that's probably true--the problem is the alternative--which is zero representation of anyone but European or Asian descent at any high end American schools. Which then throws in our face AND highlights institutionalized racism all at the same time.

Considering where these kids are starting from, Affirmative Action is sort of like a necessary evil. It is inherently unfair to make up for the societal unfairness of simply being born a different color. I'm not sure if that bodes well for it being constitutional, but I certainly support it.

^^^^^^^^^^
..
.
Where is"societal unfairness" mentioned...

Right there.


LOL, if that makes you feel better
 
2012-10-12 09:31:08 AM  
Racist, like asshats, come in all colors
 
2012-10-12 09:31:28 AM  
Screw affirmative action. Affirmative action should be action at the individual level.

I know MANY Asians who came to this country with nothing, their parents worked in sweat jobs and menial labor, but stressed education and direction. Most of their kids went on to graduate from college, and become doctors, lawyers, professionals.

On the flipside, I know many kids born in this country (regardless of race) with a damn silver spoon in their mouths, always got the best clothing, newest video game systems, latest computer and gadget, and don't even make an attempt to make anything of themselves, yet think the country/world OWES THEM a comfortable life.
 
2012-10-12 09:34:02 AM  

Bontesla: Silly Jesus: zedster: Silly Jesus: Sha-nay-nay just sounds less professional than Michelle. I don't think that that is necessarily a race thing, it's just a ridiculous phonetic name vs. a traditional name thing.

yes, and traditional names change. Sure they could do the same thing foreign call centers do and use fake names, but why should you be judged by what your parents named you?

//does not apply for the name shiathead (pronounced Sha-theed) and yes, I've heard of at least one case of this from two sources talking about the same person

Genetics? If you parents genes resulted in them thinking that it was a good idea to name you Lemonjello then you inherited those genes and that is a consideration in your future work performance.

Frank Zappa was crazy...he named his kids crazy names, my favorite being Moon Unit. If Moon Unit asked me for a job I would rightfully assume that her parents were mentally unstable and that she just might be as well.

Ridiculous names carry weight, like it or not.

But we don't need to imagine such extreme differences. The name Greg carries a different weight than Jamal or Donte. Williard than Freeman. Milton than Marcus.

My name is Jessica. I had it made socially. They studied the name Jessica and compared it to Bernadette. Similar essay responses and Jessica scored worse than Bernadette at an alarming rate. Teachers gave the academic benefit to a "smart" name and not the "popular" name.

/I did "ok" in K-12 because I was lazy. I made it into an elite college but obviously not based on academic success.


I wonder if there is some causation vs correlation at play here.

The black folks I knew in college were overwhelmingly named William and Greg etc. while the black folks who daily appear in the local police blotter are overwhelmingly named Dumbtavious and Rodricus etc.
 
2012-10-12 09:35:13 AM  

Dadoody: Screw affirmative action. Affirmative action should be action at the individual level.

I know MANY Asians who came to this country with nothing, their parents worked in sweat jobs and menial labor, but stressed education and direction. Most of their kids went on to graduate from college, and become doctors, lawyers, professionals.

On the flipside, I know many kids born in this country (regardless of race) with a damn silver spoon in their mouths, always got the best clothing, newest video game systems, latest computer and gadget, and don't even make an attempt to make anything of themselves, yet think the country/world OWES THEM a comfortable life.


One girl I knew from college, named Thanh, had a BAYONET scar in her back as a NV solder had rammed it at her as she was fleeing the country with her family. Her family made it onto a boat and to the ocean, but half of them died from exposure and starvation. The rest of them were somehow saved by US Navy, came here with nothing and have done more with that nothing than many American born have done with ALL the resources they could ever need at their disposal. Blacks, Hispanics, Whites, and even American born Asians.
 
2012-10-12 09:35:29 AM  

MycroftHolmes: Affirmative action may be a clumsy tool that can result in some negative consequence, but the need for some corrective mechanism to counteract institutional bias is undeniable, if the goal is an integrated, classless society of equal opportunity.


California tried to be progressive and create an integrated, raceless society. Problem is the people that benefit the most from non-integrated, race-based society voted against it(you know, non-whites. I can't say minorities because white is a minority in California.. guess they should get affirmative action).
 
2012-10-12 09:35:42 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: ChuDogg: Asians only achieve status due to the "model minority" stigma. The whites say jump and they say "how high" look good little worker bees in this hyper capitalist dystopia. I don't feel the need to apologize that blacks and browns have taken an alternate path and decide to take what is owed to us.

What the fark? Seriously, that's the most racist thing I've seen on Fark up to this point. And I read the politics tab.


That's because you have a white privelege resulting from centuries of a colonial-slave complex. Take your soap blunders off.

It's kool though, different people react differently to oppression, asians just happened to snap into place and were generously rewarded by their colonialist masters. Those who point to them as the model to follow are the real racists. But the shackles of oppression will one day come off and those white boys trembling over some true equality are bout to shiat donuts.
 
2012-10-12 09:35:58 AM  
If you ant to help the disadvantaged, help the poor.

If you want diversity, look at their experience on their application.

Race based affirmative action at this point is like using a web of wrongs to make a right.
 
2012-10-12 09:36:47 AM  
Just no way a person can be for affirmative action and not be racist.

Also, not one single study, anywhere, ever, has shown a benefit to forced diversity. Only study ever admitted to a court was in the Grutter case, it showed affirmative action actually pisses everyone off, white and minorities.

Liberals are ruining everything.

Base everything on merit, as it should be.
 
2012-10-12 09:36:53 AM  
It is funny how they want to become incredibly angry when a judgment is based on the color of their skin, unless it works in their favor. Skin color should not be a factor you are admitted based on your merits nothing more and nothing less. It is a sad thing our highest court cannot see this simple truth.
 
2012-10-12 09:37:42 AM  

Silly Jesus: Bontesla: Silly Jesus: zedster: Silly Jesus: Sha-nay-nay just sounds less professional than Michelle. I don't think that that is necessarily a race thing, it's just a ridiculous phonetic name vs. a traditional name thing.

yes, and traditional names change. Sure they could do the same thing foreign call centers do and use fake names, but why should you be judged by what your parents named you?

//does not apply for the name shiathead (pronounced Sha-theed) and yes, I've heard of at least one case of this from two sources talking about the same person

Genetics? If you parents genes resulted in them thinking that it was a good idea to name you Lemonjello then you inherited those genes and that is a consideration in your future work performance.

Frank Zappa was crazy...he named his kids crazy names, my favorite being Moon Unit. If Moon Unit asked me for a job I would rightfully assume that her parents were mentally unstable and that she just might be as well.

Ridiculous names carry weight, like it or not.

But we don't need to imagine such extreme differences. The name Greg carries a different weight than Jamal or Donte. Williard than Freeman. Milton than Marcus.

My name is Jessica. I had it made socially. They studied the name Jessica and compared it to Bernadette. Similar essay responses and Jessica scored worse than Bernadette at an alarming rate. Teachers gave the academic benefit to a "smart" name and not the "popular" name.

/I did "ok" in K-12 because I was lazy. I made it into an elite college but obviously not based on academic success.

I wonder if there is some causation vs correlation at play here.

The black folks I knew in college were overwhelmingly named William and Greg etc. while the black folks who daily appear in the local police blotter are overwhelmingly named Dumbtavious and Rodricus etc.


Is your middle name Wayne? You might be a serial killer.
 
2012-10-12 09:38:37 AM  

MycroftHolmes: Dear Jerk: Studies have shown that minorities who got through college on affirmative action do just as well in their careers as other graduates from the same schools. That points out the fact that America is all about opportunity. I'd be willing to get rid of affirmative action if we could also get rid of nepotism and cronyism, which are exponentially more of a problem. In fact, affirmative action was created a slight remedy to nepotism and cronyism. If you're a mediocre white kid who didn't get admitted to the college of your choice, you can fight for real justice, or you can be practical and network better. You have that opportunity.

/ I got suckered in by Shelby Steele's 'Content of Their Character' when it came out. Until I realized that it assumes a level playing field. The level playing field is a given in conservative logic.

This is spot on. The whole idea of judging people based on their merit should only be applied to affirmative action if it can be equally applied to all other candidates as well. And since so much is based on interviews and rapport, and people naturally form rapport with people who are similar to them, it iwill be almost impossible to ever have a system that is entirely merit based.


We're talking about the University of Texas in this particular case. Do they actually base their admissions on interviews? That would be a serious undertaking for a school that size. Every college I applied to (Virginia Tech, WVU, Ohio State) accepted me based on my high school transcripts (and race). There were no interviews or essay questions.

Affirmative action may be a clumsy tool that can result in some negative consequence, but the need for some corrective mechanism to counteract institutional bias is undeniable, if the goal is an integrated, classless society of equal opportunity.

I never really bought into that goal. Unless we go full communist, there's always going to be somebody who was born with poor parents. Making sure that being born with poor parents doesn't lock you in to being poor is a good thing, but we can't screw people over to get there. There's a point where we have to say, "tough shiat. You had 18 years of good-enough educational opportunities but you still didn't make the cut. Go to community college instead."
 
2012-10-12 09:38:51 AM  
I think we first need to get over the "everyone deserves to go to college!" mindset.

College really is turning into high school 2.0
 
2012-10-12 09:39:06 AM  

Private_Citizen: If they really want to give people a leg up, don't base it on skin color, base it on economic status. Being poor makes it hard to succeed, regardless of your race. If a disadvantaged student can score as well as a privildged one, you know which one has the talent and the drive - and which one coasted.


The problem with this "logic" is that poor white boys who complain about this just didn't take advantage of the priveleges and opportunties that were offered to them. At every stage a life of helping hand was offered in school and work, yet they either partied or were just lazy. Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

Now I'm supposed to be told by some white priveleged dude that he had it worse than the ghetto cuz his momma was poor too? Lol
 
2012-10-12 09:39:34 AM  

serial_crusher: Bontesla: Ha. If you think the white students were there only because of merit then you're part of the problem. White students, specifically affluent white students, are given the advantage since birth.

So, do you genuinely think that affluent black students don't get the same or equivalent opportunities from birth?
That's why race is a shiatty determiner. Being poor is actually what causes most of the problems you're mentioning. (Except maybe the bit about how different teachers respond to different students).

If you gave preference based on parental income, I'd be a little less pissed than I am giving preference based on race. I've got my own slew of anecdotes about how parental income is irrelevant to some students.


Absolutely. Affluent white kids are given more opportunities and advantages than affluent black kids. Affluent black kids more than poor black kids.

I'm okay with race-based Affirmative Action but I'd also like to see it expanded to socioeconmic status, too.
 
2012-10-12 09:39:54 AM  

Dadoody: Dadoody: Screw affirmative action. Affirmative action should be action at the individual level.

I know MANY Asians who came to this country with nothing, their parents worked in sweat jobs and menial labor, but stressed education and direction. Most of their kids went on to graduate from college, and become doctors, lawyers, professionals.

On the flipside, I know many kids born in this country (regardless of race) with a damn silver spoon in their mouths, always got the best clothing, newest video game systems, latest computer and gadget, and don't even make an attempt to make anything of themselves, yet think the country/world OWES THEM a comfortable life.

One girl I knew from college, named Thanh, had a BAYONET scar in her back as a NV solder had rammed it at her as she was fleeing the country with her family. Her family made it onto a boat and to the ocean, but half of them died from exposure and starvation. The rest of them were somehow saved by US Navy, came here with nothing and have done more with that nothing than many American born have done with ALL the resources they could ever need at their disposal. Blacks, Hispanics, Whites, and even American born Asians.


That sounds boot strappy and must be ridiculed on FARK, be warned.
 
2012-10-12 09:40:52 AM  
Of course "minorities" should get coddling, preferential treatment.

And Obamaphones.
 
2012-10-12 09:40:57 AM  

ChuDogg: Private_Citizen: If they really want to give people a leg up, don't base it on skin color, base it on economic status. Being poor makes it hard to succeed, regardless of your race. If a disadvantaged student can score as well as a privildged one, you know which one has the talent and the drive - and which one coasted.

The problem with this "logic" is that poor white boys who complain about this just didn't take advantage of the priveleges and opportunties that were offered to them. At every stage a life of helping hand was offered in school and work, yet they either partied or were just lazy. Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

Now I'm supposed to be told by some white priveleged dude that he had it worse than the ghetto cuz his momma was poor too? Lol


Don't talk about david_gaithersburg like he's not even in the room.
 
2012-10-12 09:41:30 AM  

Profedius: It is funny how they want to become incredibly angry when a judgment is based on the color of their skin, unless it works in their favor. Skin color should not be a factor you are admitted based on your merits nothing more and nothing less. It is a sad thing our highest court cannot see this simple truth.


So, you are saying that currently, in hiring, admittance, and other practices, that race is not a factor? No one is currently ever judged simply by the color of their skin or their general appearance? Also, you are saying that 'merits' of (a job, a college admittance, a court decision, etc.) is a purely objective standard and subjective judgement never comes into play?

of course the answer to those questions is a resounding no. So it is unfair in the extreme to rail against affirmative action as being racist (of course it is, by definition), while not acknowledging or addressing the problems that affirmative action seeks to address.
 
2012-10-12 09:41:45 AM  

Thunderpipes: Just no way a person can be for affirmative action and not be racist.

Also, not one single study, anywhere, ever, has shown a benefit to forced diversity. Only study ever admitted to a court was in the Grutter case, it showed affirmative action actually pisses everyone off, white and minorities.

Liberals are ruining everything.

Base everything on merit, as it should be.


Fair and balanced.
 
2012-10-12 09:42:59 AM  

ChuDogg: Private_Citizen: If they really want to give people a leg up, don't base it on skin color, base it on economic status. Being poor makes it hard to succeed, regardless of your race. If a disadvantaged student can score as well as a privildged one, you know which one has the talent and the drive - and which one coasted.

The problem with this "logic" is that poor white boys who complain about this just didn't take advantage of the priveleges and opportunties that were offered to them. At every stage a life of helping hand was offered in school and work, yet they either partied or were just lazy. Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

Now I'm supposed to be told by some white priveleged dude that he had it worse than the ghetto cuz his momma was poor too? Lol


Just curious, how old are you? Because it doesn't sound like you're (accurately) describing the environment that present-day college applicants grew up in. What privileges do poor white kids get that poor black kids don't?
 
2012-10-12 09:43:31 AM  

ChuDogg: Private_Citizen: If they really want to give people a leg up, don't base it on skin color, base it on economic status. Being poor makes it hard to succeed, regardless of your race. If a disadvantaged student can score as well as a privildged one, you know which one has the talent and the drive - and which one coasted.

The problem with this "logic" is that poor white boys who complain about this just didn't take advantage of the priveleges and opportunties that were offered to them. At every stage a life of helping hand was offered in school and work, yet they either partied or were just lazy. Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

Now I'm supposed to be told by some white priveleged dude that he had it worse than the ghetto cuz his momma was poor too? Lol


See, racist came in all colors. Thanks for proving my point
 
2012-10-12 09:43:46 AM  

Silly Jesus:
The black folks I knew in college were overwhelmingly named William and Greg etc. while the black folks who daily appear in the local police blotter are overwhelmingly named Dumbtavious and Rodricus etc.


Needs more apostrophes and random capitalization, or punctuation symbols.

La-a = Ladasha
-&ria = Dashandria
 
2012-10-12 09:43:48 AM  

Silly Jesus: Bontesla: Silly Jesus: zedster: Silly Jesus: Sha-nay-nay just sounds less professional than Michelle. I don't think that that is necessarily a race thing, it's just a ridiculous phonetic name vs. a traditional name thing.

yes, and traditional names change. Sure they could do the same thing foreign call centers do and use fake names, but why should you be judged by what your parents named you?

//does not apply for the name shiathead (pronounced Sha-theed) and yes, I've heard of at least one case of this from two sources talking about the same person

Genetics? If you parents genes resulted in them thinking that it was a good idea to name you Lemonjello then you inherited those genes and that is a consideration in your future work performance.

Frank Zappa was crazy...he named his kids crazy names, my favorite being Moon Unit. If Moon Unit asked me for a job I would rightfully assume that her parents were mentally unstable and that she just might be as well.

Ridiculous names carry weight, like it or not.

But we don't need to imagine such extreme differences. The name Greg carries a different weight than Jamal or Donte. Williard than Freeman. Milton than Marcus.

My name is Jessica. I had it made socially. They studied the name Jessica and compared it to Bernadette. Similar essay responses and Jessica scored worse than Bernadette at an alarming rate. Teachers gave the academic benefit to a "smart" name and not the "popular" name.

/I did "ok" in K-12 because I was lazy. I made it into an elite college but obviously not based on academic success.

I wonder if there is some causation vs correlation at play here.

The black folks I knew in college were overwhelmingly named William and Greg etc. while the black folks who daily appear in the local police blotter are overwhelmingly named Dumbtavious and Rodricus etc.


Freakanomics also did a bit on this. As it turns out - the Greg's are more likely to come from a more stable household than the Dumbtavious's. But - holding for all things equal - Dumbtavious is less likely to be given the same opportunities as Greg.
 
2012-10-12 09:43:59 AM  

Frank N Stein: I think we first need to get over the "everyone deserves to go to college!" mindset.

College really is turning into high school 2.0


This is true.

If everyone in the US went to college... Bachelors degrees would be the new GED.
 
2012-10-12 09:44:35 AM  
It's more than a little disheartening to see that the number of posters to this thread that actually understand what UT's acceptance policy actually is (You know, the actual subject of the current case?) can be counted on the fingers of a single hand.

And it goes without saying that the most prolific and vociferous posters are not not among that group.

Kinda like the folks with a jones about "hate crimes" who don't know what they actually are.
 
2012-10-12 09:44:45 AM  

serial_crusher: Just curious, how old are you? Because it doesn't sound like you're (accurately) describing the environment that present-day college applicants grew up in. What privileges do poor white kids get that poor black kids don't?


Are you honestly saying that if you take wo kids, one white, one black, and dress them up the same, they will be treated the same by society, whether it is interacting with police, applying for a job, etc.? I don't buy this.
 
2012-10-12 09:45:16 AM  

ChuDogg: Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.


oag.org

Yes, the insatiable appetite for educations that blacks have is undeniable.
 
2012-10-12 09:45:29 AM  

give me doughnuts: Silly Jesus:
The black folks I knew in college were overwhelmingly named William and Greg etc. while the black folks who daily appear in the local police blotter are overwhelmingly named Dumbtavious and Rodricus etc.

Needs more apostrophes and random capitalization, or punctuation symbols.

La-a = Ladasha
-&ria = Dashandria


Take him to school, Braeden!
 
2012-10-12 09:45:52 AM  
editorial.sidereel.com

Affirmative Action is available to those who qualify.
 
2012-10-12 09:46:34 AM  
I just had an epiphany that would solve the issue at hand....

College applications should have no identifying information on them. Only your grades, test scores, etc.

No names, no DOBs, no addresses, just a randomly-generated ID number. When the applicant shows up for class, you'll be able to see who was worthy.

That's both equal and fair.
 
2012-10-12 09:46:53 AM  
MycroftHolmes:

post...

post...

post...

post...


I like the cut of your jib.
 
2012-10-12 09:47:10 AM  

Frank N Stein: ChuDogg: Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

[oag.org image 721x475]

Yes, the insatiable appetite for educations that blacks have is undeniable.


LOL. You beat down a group, put them at a disadvantage, and then tell them it is their fault when they can't break the cycle that you put them in. Well done. People like you are what convince me that, despite be clumsy and heavy handed, programs like affirmative action are essential.
 
2012-10-12 09:49:04 AM  

MycroftHolmes: Frank N Stein: ChuDogg: Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

[oag.org image 721x475]

Yes, the insatiable appetite for educations that blacks have is undeniable.

LOL. You beat down a group, put them at a disadvantage, and then tell them it is their fault when they can't break the cycle that you put them in. Well done. People like you are what convince me that, despite be clumsy and heavy handed, programs like affirmative action are essential.


Did you look at the top line on the graph?
 
2012-10-12 09:49:07 AM  
"not not"?

Not.

Knothead.

Management regrets the error.
 
2012-10-12 09:49:36 AM  

MycroftHolmes: LOL. You beat down a group, put them at a disadvantage, and then tell them it is their fault when they can't break the cycle that you put them in. Well done. People like you are what convince me that, despite be clumsy and heavy handed, programs like affirmative action are essential.


I'm counter trolling ChugDogg
 
2012-10-12 09:50:03 AM  

Lunaville: Rodrigo Hernandez: While I agree with the idea of promoting education and opportunities for minorities, it would be better for all disadvantaged people, no matter their race, to get some sort of preference instead of basing it on race. Poor people, whether white, black, hispanic, or indians, are disadvantaged more greatly than an upper-middle class minority.

Your statement makes a certain amount of sense. When I was very young I opposed affirmative action. One of the smartest people at my high school was a black female. I thought, obviously, anyone would trip over themselves to accept her to their college or hire her. I thought affirmative action was insulting to people like her. Then I began to work at actual jobs versus, for instance, babysitting.

By the time I was 23 years old, I had done a 180. I had worked at places where I was not allowed to even provide an application to black people. I was required to say the business was out of applications. Resumes received from black people were not even kept on file. They were tossed directly into the trash. Funny thing about jobs like that, they manage to make the "acceptable" people allowed to work in such a place perfectly miserable. An owner/manager that dedicated to acting unjustly and inequitably certainly isn't going to treat the people s/he does hire fairly or respectfully.

I concede that other, non-race based, discrimination happens. After picking up a little experience and learning to stand my ground a bit, I worked in a retail store where I refused to have anything at all to do with applications. Personnel accepting applications had been directed to code the application indicating the race of the applicant and whether the applicant was fat. The store set a limited number of positions that could be held by non-white people and would not exceed that number. If you were fat, however, you weren't getting hired, period.

When you are young you imagine that people strive to be as intelligent, logical, and fair mi ...


Luna, you are a horrible horrible person and much of what is wrong with this entire issue is wholely your fault personally. It is nice that you recognized racist practices and actions. It is also nice that you were offended by them.

But you failed to act. It was incumbent on you to step up for those that were clearly discriminated against. Yet you did nothing.

You champion a terrible concept like affirmative action. It is only necessary because cowards like yourself fail to act.

But keep patting yourself on the back for being such a good person.
 
2012-10-12 09:50:26 AM  

ChuDogg: Private_Citizen: If they really want to give people a leg up, don't base it on skin color, base it on economic status. Being poor makes it hard to succeed, regardless of your race. If a disadvantaged student can score as well as a privildged one, you know which one has the talent and the drive - and which one coasted.

The problem with this "logic" is that poor white boys who complain about this just didn't take advantage of the priveleges and opportunties that were offered to them. At every stage a life of helping hand was offered in school and work, yet they either partied or were just lazy. Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

Now I'm supposed to be told by some white priveleged dude that he had it worse than the ghetto cuz his momma was poor too? Lol


You're probably just trolling, but in case you actually believe the drivel you just spouted:

No, if you're poor, it sucks. Period. In your fevered brain, you may imagine that poor white people are somehow treated better than poor blacks - but I assure you, hunger could care less about your skin color. Crappy clothes, worn out shoes and no coat don't care if your in the hood or the hills. And getting hit by an alcoholic parent hurts whether your hair is straight or curly.

Overcoming poverty and scoring as well as a priviledged kid shows raw talent and a drive to succeed. That should be rewarded when it comes time to get into a college.
 
2012-10-12 09:50:54 AM  
Since this is about admissions at The University of Texas, and it is the weekend of the Red River Shootout, I would just like to point out that in a unanimous decision, the Supreme Court has ruled that OU Sucks.

Hook 'em.

cache.deadspin.com
 
2012-10-12 09:51:41 AM  

Bontesla: Silly Jesus: Bontesla: Silly Jesus: zedster: Silly Jesus: Sha-nay-nay just sounds less professional than Michelle. I don't think that that is necessarily a race thing, it's just a ridiculous phonetic name vs. a traditional name thing.

yes, and traditional names change. Sure they could do the same thing foreign call centers do and use fake names, but why should you be judged by what your parents named you?

//does not apply for the name shiathead (pronounced Sha-theed) and yes, I've heard of at least one case of this from two sources talking about the same person

Genetics? If you parents genes resulted in them thinking that it was a good idea to name you Lemonjello then you inherited those genes and that is a consideration in your future work performance.

Frank Zappa was crazy...he named his kids crazy names, my favorite being Moon Unit. If Moon Unit asked me for a job I would rightfully assume that her parents were mentally unstable and that she just might be as well.

Ridiculous names carry weight, like it or not.

But we don't need to imagine such extreme differences. The name Greg carries a different weight than Jamal or Donte. Williard than Freeman. Milton than Marcus.

My name is Jessica. I had it made socially. They studied the name Jessica and compared it to Bernadette. Similar essay responses and Jessica scored worse than Bernadette at an alarming rate. Teachers gave the academic benefit to a "smart" name and not the "popular" name.

/I did "ok" in K-12 because I was lazy. I made it into an elite college but obviously not based on academic success.

I wonder if there is some causation vs correlation at play here.

The black folks I knew in college were overwhelmingly named William and Greg etc. while the black folks who daily appear in the local police blotter are overwhelmingly named Dumbtavious and Rodricus etc.

Freakanomics also did a bit on this. As it turns out - the Greg's are more likely to come from a more stable household than the Dumbtavious' ...


Life isn't fair.
 
2012-10-12 09:52:49 AM  

give me doughnuts: MycroftHolmes: Frank N Stein: ChuDogg: Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

[oag.org image 721x475]

Yes, the insatiable appetite for educations that blacks have is undeniable.

LOL. You beat down a group, put them at a disadvantage, and then tell them it is their fault when they can't break the cycle that you put them in. Well done. People like you are what convince me that, despite be clumsy and heavy handed, programs like affirmative action are essential.

Did you look at the top line on the graph?


Yep. Believe me, as an Asian, I can tell you that we do not endure the day to day casual bias that a black or hispanic individual endures. And our history of in the US does not contain nearly the same quality or quanitity of conflict.
 
2012-10-12 09:54:58 AM  
Affirmative action is just a band aid for the real issue, how public schools are funded. It's basically "Sorry you grew up in an impoverished area with no funding for the school and as such had almost no hope of scoring decently on the ACT/SAT. Here have some bonus points on an application to a college you'll most likely fail out of, we're cool now right?".

Fix the root of the problem, don't just toss students 4 years at a better school to make up for K-12 neglect.
 
2012-10-12 09:55:46 AM  

MycroftHolmes: Frank N Stein: ChuDogg: Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

[oag.org image 721x475]

Yes, the insatiable appetite for educations that blacks have is undeniable.

LOL. You beat down a group, put them at a disadvantage, and then tell them it is their fault when they can't break the cycle that you put them in. Well done. People like you are what convince me that, despite be clumsy and heavy handed, programs like affirmative action are essential.


You have to want to improve your lot in life in order for it to actually improve. Drive through your local projects in the middle of the day and look at all of the people who could be out applying for a job or working or doing anything other than what they are doing.
 
2012-10-12 09:57:56 AM  

ha-ha-guy: Affirmative action is just a band aid for the real issue, how public schools are funded. It's basically "Sorry you grew up in an impoverished area with no funding for the school and as such had almost no hope of scoring decently on the ACT/SAT. Here have some bonus points on an application to a college you'll most likely fail out of, we're cool now right?".

Fix the root of the problem, don't just toss students 4 years at a better school to make up for K-12 neglect.


There is a large element of truth in this. The overarching truth is that from birth, the playing field is not level. Affirmative Action is a clumsy and heavy handed way of leveling the playing field late in the game. The better solution would be to level the playing field earlier in life, but that is a complex problem that is not easily addressed.

The answer is not to stand at the top of the hill and say 'field looks perfectly level from where I am at, what's your problem?'
 
2012-10-12 09:58:38 AM  

ha-ha-guy: Affirmative action is just a band aid for the real issue, how public schools are funded. It's basically "Sorry you grew up in an impoverished area with no funding for the school and as such had almost no hope of scoring decently on the ACT/SAT. Here have some bonus points on an application to a college you'll most likely fail out of, we're cool now right?".

Fix the root of the problem, don't just toss students 4 years at a better school to make up for K-12 neglect.


California doesn't fund in such a manner, yet it produces the same results(poor urban districts actually get more money per student than more affluent suburbs in general, and way more than middle class suburbs). So don't give me that bullshiat. The problem isn't the schools, it's the people, it's the culture, it's the acceptance of anything but success. Asian dad meme is a stereotype based in fact, but Asian dad meme doesn't have to be an Asian dad, it can be any dad, and that will generate success.
 
2012-10-12 10:00:50 AM  

JackieRabbit: Based on what I have read, this young lady would not have been admitted regardless of any consideration of race. Her HS academic performance and SAT scores simply were not high enough and her composite score in UT's formula just a tad too low for her to be admitted. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades


IF they weren't giving special preference for race then the bar for everyone would be a little lower.
 
2012-10-12 10:01:00 AM  

Silly Jesus: MycroftHolmes: Frank N Stein: ChuDogg: Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

[oag.org image 721x475]

Yes, the insatiable appetite for educations that blacks have is undeniable.

LOL. You beat down a group, put them at a disadvantage, and then tell them it is their fault when they can't break the cycle that you put them in. Well done. People like you are what convince me that, despite be clumsy and heavy handed, programs like affirmative action are essential.

You have to want to improve your lot in life in order for it to actually improve. Drive through your local projects in the middle of the day and look at all of the people who could be out applying for a job or working or doing anything other than what they are doing.


A snapshot in time. That's all one needs to understand the state of society. Well done.
 
2012-10-12 10:01:03 AM  

bhcompy: ha-ha-guy: Affirmative action is just a band aid for the real issue, how public schools are funded. It's basically "Sorry you grew up in an impoverished area with no funding for the school and as such had almost no hope of scoring decently on the ACT/SAT. Here have some bonus points on an application to a college you'll most likely fail out of, we're cool now right?".

Fix the root of the problem, don't just toss students 4 years at a better school to make up for K-12 neglect.

California doesn't fund in such a manner, yet it produces the same results(poor urban districts actually get more money per student than more affluent suburbs in general, and way more than middle class suburbs). So don't give me that bullshiat. The problem isn't the schools, it's the people, it's the culture, it's the acceptance of anything but success. Asian dad meme is a stereotype based in fact, but Asian dad meme doesn't have to be an Asian dad, it can be any dad, and that will generate success.


THIS
 
2012-10-12 10:01:18 AM  
I have a Pakistani friend and we were both talking about going to college (13 years ago). We had similar grades, scores and activities. His dad was/is the premier heart surgeon of the region, they live in a 16,000 sf mansion with elevators, indoor pool etc...(that they also paid cash for)

I was talking about how hard it was gonna be for me to put myself through school, not complaining just talking about what I needed to do, since my parents couldn't do it given my mother was dying.

He said: "That sucks man, wanna hear something stupid? I was given a full ride because I'm Pakistani"
 
2012-10-12 10:01:50 AM  

Silly Jesus: MycroftHolmes: Frank N Stein: ChuDogg: Meanwhile blacks were getting pushed down the whole time and nobody even asked us what we thought.

[oag.org image 721x475]

Yes, the insatiable appetite for educations that blacks have is undeniable.

LOL. You beat down a group, put them at a disadvantage, and then tell them it is their fault when they can't break the cycle that you put them in. Well done. People like you are what convince me that, despite be clumsy and heavy handed, programs like affirmative action are essential.

You have to want to improve your lot in life in order for it to actually improve. Drive through your local projects in the middle of the day and look at all of the people who could be out applying for a job or working or doing anything other than what they are doing.


There is some element of truth in that, but it goes deeper than that. Look at the people who have been unemployed during the recession, a lot of them have given up hope after 2 years of failure.

Now, imagine your whole life, every time you try, society, in some way, shape, or form, tells you that you can't succeed, you belong in the projects. Eventually, you start believing it, even become proud of it as a way of defending your ego and become part of the system to perpetuate the cycle.

The culture of projects and ghettos is a symptom, not a cause, of the problem. It is part of the cycle. Break the cycle, and then everyone will at least have a fighting chance.
 
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