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(Daily Mail)   CNN commentator says that before the debate Biden and Ryan were "as nervous as a hooker in church"   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 268
    More: Interesting, CNN, Biden, Paul Begala, Danville, Mayfair, Ann Curry  
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1395 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Oct 2012 at 8:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 07:39:53 AM
Did Dan Rather get a job at CNN?
 
2012-10-12 07:57:34 AM
After being met with a quick laughter from his fellow commentators, one of them responded 'I must be going to the wrong church!'

Awesome! Of course they would be nervous.

[imokaywiththis.jpg]
 
2012-10-12 08:08:57 AM
Why they looked more uncomfortable than a hooker with a runny nose!
 
2012-10-12 08:12:38 AM
It's probably one of those deals that no matter how confident you are in yourself or how talented a politician you are, you're going to be a bit nervous. If you got the skills though, once the lights are pointed at you and the questions start coming, you go into some sort of 'zone.'
 
2012-10-12 08:23:26 AM
i1079.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-12 08:28:05 AM
CNN commentator says that before the debate Biden and Ryan were "as nervous as a hooker in church"

That is a slanderous characterization. If I were a whore, I'd be offended at being associated with politicians.
 
2012-10-12 08:40:05 AM
So, not very nervous at all?
 
2012-10-12 08:42:02 AM

dittybopper: CNN commentator says that before the debate Biden and Ryan were "as nervous as a hooker in church"

That is a slanderous characterization. If I were a whore, I'd be offended at being associated with politicians.


Why? I'm sure they pay well.
 
2012-10-12 08:44:42 AM
Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?
 
2012-10-12 08:46:20 AM

vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?


What happens if they're found 'doping?' Are the poll numbers forcibly reversed?
 
2012-10-12 08:47:09 AM

vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?


All-natural supplements only. St. John's Wort, a banana for potassium, and a CD of soothing ocean sounds.
 
2012-10-12 08:47:35 AM

vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?


Serious question... how would a beta blocker help?
 
2012-10-12 08:47:36 AM

AMonkey'sUncle: dittybopper: CNN commentator says that before the debate Biden and Ryan were "as nervous as a hooker in church"

That is a slanderous characterization. If I were a whore, I'd be offended at being associated with politicians.

Why? I'm sure they pay well.


I meant associated in the sense of being lumped in the same general category, not in the sense of physical association.
 
2012-10-12 08:48:27 AM

physt: vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?

Serious question... how would a beta blocker help?


It would keep Hayata from becoming Ultraman.
 
2012-10-12 08:51:00 AM
If CNN reports that, I assume Biden and Ryan were yelling at the top of their voices at one another in a series of swear-laden diatribes.
 
2012-10-12 08:51:28 AM

physt: vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?

Serious question... how would a beta blocker help?


According to Wikipedia, they reduce the effects of stress hormones. Plus Ryan looks like the kind of guy who would have been an Alpha-Beta in college, so they probably block him out too.
 
2012-10-12 08:51:57 AM
Did you see how relaxed Biden was by the time the debate started? That's why you gotta rub one out beforehand.
 
2012-10-12 08:52:04 AM
What does malarkey mean?

People apparently rushed to their computers to find out. "Malarkey," it turns out, was the third-most-searched debate-related term of the night on Google. It was also trending on Twitter for a good chunk of time.


fark this earth
 
2012-10-12 08:52:07 AM

physt: vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?

Serious question... how would a beta blocker help?


I thought beta blockers are sometimes taken by actors and musicians to calm their nerves before a performance?
 
2012-10-12 08:52:09 AM

physt: vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?

Serious question... how would a beta blocker help?


Keeps the heart rate down and keeps your muscles tensing up
 
2012-10-12 08:54:55 AM
Haven't seen much of Begala post-Crossfire. Great to learn he hasn't lost his sense of humor.
 
2012-10-12 08:57:10 AM
CNN headline claims VP debate a 'draw'. Read all the right wing butthurt about how 'rude' Biden' was and how moderator was 'in the tank' of the Democrats. If CNN is reporting last night's debate was a draw, they should not be talking about whores.
 
2012-10-12 08:58:01 AM
I just realized something, all of Joe's interrupting to call Ryan on his blatant lying serves another purpose... There's very little clean audio of Ryan spouting talking points for the R/R campaign to use in ads... Genius.
 
2012-10-12 08:59:15 AM
Patton Oswalt had one of the most retweeted items of the night when he said, "Ryan is a nervous Walmart manager. Biden is an irate customer with the receipt, the warranty & he's friends w/ the store owner. #debate."
 
2012-10-12 09:00:18 AM
Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?
 
2012-10-12 09:01:13 AM

Dahnkster: Read all the right wing butthurt about how 'rude' Biden' was and how moderator was 'in the tank' of the Democrats.


and that is how I know Biden won.

I can't figure out how winning matters, but I trust the Republicans to give me a fair and balanced viewpoint
 
2012-10-12 09:02:24 AM

Lochsteppe: physt: vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?

Serious question... how would a beta blocker help?

According to Wikipedia, they reduce the effects of stress hormones. Plus Ryan looks like the kind of guy who would have been an Alpha-Beta in college, so they probably block him out too.


I don't know about beta blockers... but I bet Paul Ryan has some Blue Blockers somewhere.
 
2012-10-12 09:02:39 AM

CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?


I think Romney and Ryan were given extra points for having powerful hair.
 
2012-10-12 09:04:03 AM
Not to get too off topic, but is anybody surprised that Luke Russert is apparently in the tank for the candidate who has inherited his station in life rather than earned it?
 
2012-10-12 09:04:57 AM

vernonFL: physt: vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?

Serious question... how would a beta blocker help?

I thought beta blockers are sometimes taken by actors and musicians to calm their nerves before a performance?


I understood that Beta-blockers were some serious shiat. IIRC my dad took them back in the b0s (briefly) for his blood pressure and he told me they made him extremely lethargic and energy-less. I'd liken it to drinking a bottle of scotch when you just want a 2 beer buzz. Way overkill
 
2012-10-12 09:05:06 AM

Dahnkster: CNN headline claims VP debate a 'draw'. Read all the right wing butthurt about how 'rude' Biden' was and how moderator was 'in the tank' of the Democrats. If CNN is reporting last night's debate was a draw, they should not be talking about whores.


CNN lost what little credibility it had left last night. They tossed their actual instant poll, which mirrored the CBS numbers, to air a bullshiat cooked poll and make it look like a draw.

I was a CNN guy for a very, very long time, and I've tried to stay with them for as long as I can, but the ratings drop has made them so desperate that it's painful to watch.
 
2012-10-12 09:06:31 AM

CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?


here was my post-debate comment:

Let me see if I have this right.
Team Romney/Ryan just lie. They lie, avoid giving ANY details, and aren't even hiding the fact they are simply running on the !Obama platform.

If you let it go and try to be reasonable, respectful and respond when asked to, as Obama did you lose.
If you go after the lies, and make it clear that you aren't letting any BS slide by, then you are considered... mean, and you lose.

As far as I can tell the democrats can't win a debate as long as Ryan/Romney refuse to be truthful or detail oriented.

Do I understand that right? As long as Romney and Ryan don't stop lying, they somehow automagically win the debates?

\WTF?
 
2012-10-12 09:07:53 AM
At least they weren't as nervous as an altar boy...
 
2012-10-12 09:07:58 AM

too-old: I can't figure out how winning matters


Because of inflation, the value of a pitcher of warm piss has gone up significantly in the last 70 years.
 
2012-10-12 09:08:15 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Do I understand that right? As long as Romney and Ryan don't stop lying, they somehow automagically win the debates?


You in fact have it right, yes
 
2012-10-12 09:09:54 AM
For Biden especially it could have been bad... Was out and about last night tho so didn't see it. Based on what I have read and heard it seems like it was fairly uneventful?
 
2012-10-12 09:10:50 AM

dittybopper: It would keep Hayata from becoming Ultraman.


Hahahahaha. I completely forgot about ultraman. Thanks for the reminder!
 
2012-10-12 09:11:29 AM

Dahnkster: CNN headline claims VP debate a 'draw'. Read all the right wing butthurt about how 'rude' Biden' was and how moderator was 'in the tank' of the Democrats. If CNN is reporting last night's debate was a draw, they should not be talking about whores.


Exactly my conservative friends were furious at Biden this morning...I can think of no better way to prove Biden won and won handily.
 
2012-10-12 09:11:48 AM

CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?


its simple.
Take your head out of your ass.
 
2012-10-12 09:12:00 AM

too-old: Dahnkster: Read all the right wing butthurt about how 'rude' Biden' was and how moderator was 'in the tank' of the Democrats.

and that is how I know Biden won.

I can't figure out how winning matters, but I trust the Republicans to give me a fair and balanced viewpoint


Exactly. Listen to their viewpoint and assume the exact opposite to be the truth.
 
2012-10-12 09:12:12 AM

Headso: For Biden especially it could have been bad... Was out and about last night tho so didn't see it. Based on what I have read and heard it seems like it was fairly uneventful?


Sure, it was uneventful. You missed nothing, you probably were having a far more thrilling time doing whatever you were doing.

But, speaking of what you read and heard, how long have you subscribed to Mitt and Paul's Fantastic Utter Bullshiat Weekly?
 
2012-10-12 09:12:58 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?

here was my post-debate comment:

Let me see if I have this right.
Team Romney/Ryan just lie. They lie, avoid giving ANY details, and aren't even hiding the fact they are simply running on the !Obama platform.

If you let it go and try to be reasonable, respectful and respond when asked to, as Obama did you lose.
If you go after the lies, and make it clear that you aren't letting any BS slide by, then you are considered... mean, and you lose.

As far as I can tell the democrats can't win a debate as long as Ryan/Romney refuse to be truthful or detail oriented.

Do I understand that right? As long as Romney and Ryan don't stop lying, they somehow automagically win the debates?

\WTF?


Romney and Ryan are losing the election, so the media has to say they won or at least tied the debates in order to keep the mouthbreathers from thinking the election is over and switching back to the white trash voyeurism networks.
 
2012-10-12 09:13:48 AM
Too bad we can't make them bend over and take like they do us
 
2012-10-12 09:15:36 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?

here was my post-debate comment:

Let me see if I have this right.
Team Romney/Ryan just lie. They lie, avoid giving ANY details, and aren't even hiding the fact they are simply running on the !Obama platform.

If you let it go and try to be reasonable, respectful and respond when asked to, as Obama did you lose.
If you go after the lies, and make it clear that you aren't letting any BS slide by, then you are considered... mean, and you lose.

As far as I can tell the democrats can't win a debate as long as Ryan/Romney refuse to be truthful or detail oriented.

Do I understand that right? As long as Romney and Ryan don't stop lying, they somehow automagically win the debates?

\WTF?


People want to believe that all of our problems can be solved with no one in the entire society being asked to sacrifice. They want to believe the Romney/Ryan fantasy that we can simultaneously lower taxes, make massive increases in defense spending, lower the deficit and slash safety net spending without harming anyone at all.
 
2012-10-12 09:16:02 AM

CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?


I bolded the reasons. Style > substance. Every time. If it was about substance, Obama destroyed Romney.

// and the media couldn't call it for Biden
// they don't want to be part of the "liberal media"
// which means at best it can be a draw
 
2012-10-12 09:17:00 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-12 09:17:12 AM

EyeballKid: Headso: For Biden especially it could have been bad... Was out and about last night tho so didn't see it. Based on what I have read and heard it seems like it was fairly uneventful?

But, speaking of what you read and heard, how long have you subscribed to Mitt and Paul's Fantastic Utter Bullshiat Weekly?


MPFUBW?!?!?
Love that publication!!!
Did you know Obama wasn't even born in America?
Eye opening stuff....
 
2012-10-12 09:18:45 AM

physt: vernonFL: Are they allowed to take beta blockers or anything like that? Valium? A shot of whiskey?

Or is that considered "doping"?

Serious question... how would a beta blocker help?


Betas can be extremely distracting. You know, them fancy little fish?
 
2012-10-12 09:19:09 AM
Uchiha_Cycliste: automagically

i love your new word. may i add it to my vocabulary?
 
2012-10-12 09:20:12 AM

stlbluez: CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?

its simple.
Take your head out of your ass.


Your instructions would be more effective if they were based in some sort of fact; since what CPenny said is provably correct, however, you just come across as a sad bully. I'm sure that's not what you intended.
 
2012-10-12 09:20:22 AM
Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.
 
2012-10-12 09:20:25 AM

Headso: For Biden especially it could have been bad... Was out and about last night tho so didn't see it. Based on what I have read and heard it seems like it was fairly uneventful?


I thought Biden did well. Only grinning gleefully most of the time when Ryan mentioned how messed up the economy was. I was amazed that he did not jump up and do some hip thrusts at all of the bad economic data that Ryan was throwing he was grinning so broadly so I guess he reined himself in a bit.

/only caught the first 30 minutes.... kids cannot put themselves to bed
 
2012-10-12 09:21:32 AM
Ryan was on Faux News prior to the debate saying he expected Biden to be rude and aggressive, so the talking points being thrown out by the Republican word machine are to be expected.

Ryan didn't look good last night; he drank water constantly, had to constantly defend his positions while doing nothing to rebut Biden's comments, and at times found himself in agreement with Biden on policy decisions. When asked about specifics he gave none, when asked "what would Romney do different" he had no answer, and when it came to social issues he sounded like a right-wing theocrat.

Other than the media's determination to keep the "this race is a close one" meme alive, Ryan got his ass handed to him last night and everyone who watched the debate knows it.
 
2012-10-12 09:22:56 AM

Jackson Herring: What does malarkey mean?

People apparently rushed to their computers to find out. "Malarkey," it turns out, was the third-most-searched debate-related term of the night on Google. It was also trending on Twitter for a good chunk of time.

fark this earth


I think an occasional "Hogwash" from Joe would have been awesome.
And more cowbell.
 
2012-10-12 09:23:45 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Uchiha_Cycliste: CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?

here was my post-debate comment:

Let me see if I have this right.
Team Romney/Ryan just lie. They lie, avoid giving ANY details, and aren't even hiding the fact they are simply running on the !Obama platform.

If you let it go and try to be reasonable, respectful and respond when asked to, as Obama did you lose.
If you go after the lies, and make it clear that you aren't letting any BS slide by, then you are considered... mean, and you lose.

As far as I can tell the democrats can't win a debate as long as Ryan/Romney refuse to be truthful or detail oriented.

Do I understand that right? As long as Romney and Ryan don't stop lying, they somehow automagically win the debates?

\WTF?

People want to believe that all of our problems can be solved with no one in the entire society being asked to sacrifice. They want to believe the Romney/Ryan fantasy that we can simultaneously lower taxes, make massive increases in defense spending, lower the deficit and slash safety net spending without harming anyone at all.



I don't understand it. Are they not aware of who was in office when it all came crashing down around us? Are they ignorant of the fact that these buffoons want to re-instate the policies that led to that meltdown in the first place? We have seen 4 years of improvement across the board in this country, how is it possibly a good thing to undo the last four years of work and try to step back 50 years?

Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?
 
2012-10-12 09:24:52 AM

Cyxneo: [i.imgur.com image 799x1051]


I thought that was a PS from the Onion or something. How is it that I am still not cynical enough?
 
2012-10-12 09:24:56 AM

CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat?


If you do then the media can report it, if you don't the media has to editorialize it then you claim liberal media conspiracy.
 
2012-10-12 09:25:02 AM
Please note the 'fine print' attached to the CNN poll. Everyone is reporting that poll *without* noting this very important qualifier:

"SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public."
 
2012-10-12 09:26:48 AM

CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?


As if logic applies to the party of faith.
 
2012-10-12 09:28:55 AM

CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat?


They're like Fonzie. They can't admit they wr...wro...wr...wr...
 
2012-10-12 09:29:49 AM

Bendal:

Ryan didn't look good last night; he drank water constantly,


It's the creatine supplements, it makes ya thirsty.

cancerbattlefield.com 

pixel.nymag.com
 
2012-10-12 09:30:23 AM
Yeah, one look at the Drudge Report confirms that Biden won.
 
2012-10-12 09:30:35 AM
Nervous? Me?

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-12 09:32:59 AM

imontheinternet: Romney and Ryan are losing the election, so the media has to say they won or at least tied the debates in order to keep the mouthbreathers from thinking the election is over and switching back to the white trash voyeurism networks.


This.

The night of the first debate, most people thought it was either a tie or a very slight win for Romney: Obama was too passive but Romney lied like a used car salesman. A day of spin and suddenly the consensus was that it was a brutal shellacking that completely turned the race around.

The media will do damn near anything to get the horse race they want. Obama leading by 10 points was NOT good for them, and they aren't about to admit Biden kicked Ryan's ass while Obama/Biden are still a few points ahead.
 
2012-10-12 09:33:32 AM
Ryan performed predictably. He is good with numbers, but out of touch with reality... and it showed pretty profoundly in the debate.
 
2012-10-12 09:34:17 AM

urbangirl: Uchiha_Cycliste: automagically

i love your new word. may i add it to my vocabulary?


It's not exactly a "new" word. It is, however, an excellent word.
 
2012-10-12 09:34:29 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Philip Francis Queeg: Uchiha_Cycliste: CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?

here was my post-debate comment:

Let me see if I have this right.
Team Romney/Ryan just lie. They lie, avoid giving ANY details, and aren't even hiding the fact they are simply running on the !Obama platform.

If you let it go and try to be reasonable, respectful and respond when asked to, as Obama did you lose.
If you go after the lies, and make it clear that you aren't letting any BS slide by, then you are considered... mean, and you lose.

As far as I can tell the democrats can't win a debate as long as Ryan/Romney refuse to be truthful or detail oriented.

Do I understand that right? As long as Romney and Ryan don't stop lying, they somehow automagically win the debates?

\WTF?

People want to believe that all of our problems can be solved with no one in the entire society being asked to sacrifice. They want to believe the Romney/Ryan fantasy that we can simultaneously lower taxes, make massive increases in defense spending, lower the deficit and slash safety net spending without harming anyone at all.


I don't understand it. Are they not aware of who was in office when it all came crashing down around us? Are they ignorant of the fact that these buffoons want to re-instate the policies that led to that meltdown in the first place? We have seen 4 years of improvement across the board in this country, how is it possibly a good thing to undo the last four years of work and try to step back 50 years?

Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?


Probably, if you forced people to really think about it , they would admit most of those things. But when one side is telling you exactly what you want to hear it's pretty easy not to question.
 
2012-10-12 09:34:54 AM

Chabash: I just realized something, all of Joe's interrupting to call Ryan on his blatant lying serves another purpose... There's very little clean audio of Ryan spouting talking points for the R/R campaign to use in ads... Genius.


+1
I stole this
 
2012-10-12 09:35:37 AM

Graffito: dittybopper: It would keep Hayata from becoming Ultraman.

Hahahahaha. I completely forgot about ultraman. Thanks for the reminder!


You know, I was fearful that when viewed with adult eyes, they would suck. Actually, they surprisingly hold up well, especially if you watch them in Japanese with English subtitles. I used to watch it (along with Marine Boy, Speed Racer, and Johnny Sokko and his flying robot) back when I was a kid in the 1970s.

Some of them are down right dark in tone. Plus, the model work was generally fantastic, even if some of the monsters were a bit on the silly side. But hey, you try coming up with something like 40+ unique monster concepts that can be made into wearable suits.
 
2012-10-12 09:36:09 AM
The hilarious thing about all this is that right now there are millions of angry Conservatives tuning into to Rushbo so they can hear about how wrong it is for someone to be so belligerent and disrespectful.
 
2012-10-12 09:36:16 AM

Pants full of macaroni!!: urbangirl: Uchiha_Cycliste: automagically

i love your new word. may i add it to my vocabulary?

It's not exactly a "new" word. It is, however, an excellent word.


right up there with my other fave -- ignoranus
 
2012-10-12 09:37:06 AM

stlbluez: CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?

its simple.
Take your head out of your ass.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-12 09:37:36 AM

imontheinternet: Dahnkster: CNN headline claims VP debate a 'draw'. Read all the right wing butthurt about how 'rude' Biden' was and how moderator was 'in the tank' of the Democrats. If CNN is reporting last night's debate was a draw, they should not be talking about whores.

CNN lost what little credibility it had left last night. They tossed their actual instant poll, which mirrored the CBS numbers, to air a bullshiat cooked poll and make it look like a draw.

I was a CNN guy for a very, very long time, and I've tried to stay with them for as long as I can, but the ratings drop has made them so desperate that it's painful to watch.


They lost me last week for essentially the same reason.
 
2012-10-12 09:37:40 AM

Dahnkster: Please note the 'fine print' attached to the CNN poll. Everyone is reporting that poll *without* noting this very important qualifier:

"SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public."


Wait polling biase is not being taken up by the left now? Jebus kids, first you steal the idea behind ACA and now you are grabbing this? Come on start thinking for yourself.
 
2012-10-12 09:38:08 AM

Xetal: Ryan performed predictably. He is good with numbers, but out of touch with reality... and it showed pretty profoundly in the debate.


Good with what numbers? Imaginary ones?
 
2012-10-12 09:38:40 AM

Dr Dreidel: CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?

I bolded the reasons. Style > substance. Every time. If it was about substance, Obama destroyed Romney.

// and the media couldn't call it for Biden
// they don't want to be part of the "liberal media"
// which means at best it can be a draw


Someone else posted something similar to this in another thread (I forget where), and I paraphrased a version of it in last night's thread, and I'm repeating it just because.

Debater A: While the sky can look blue, at times you'll notice the sky can also appear orange, gray, or even black.
Debater B: If you ask any child "What color is the sky?", they'll say "blue". If you ask anyone in this audience that same questions, they'll say "blue". That's because THE SKY IS farkING BLUE!!!!
Pundit: Debater A presented his position a lot more coherently and did not resort to condescension. Debater A wins.
 
2012-10-12 09:38:48 AM
What was up with the moderator? She had like a Parkinsons level of quiver in her voice. The debates are batting 0-2 in moderators so far. Had the door mat for the first one and gotcha girl with the shakey voice for this one. Who is the moderator for the final debate. I vote for Emo Phillips.
 
2012-10-12 09:39:54 AM

imontheinternet: Dahnkster: CNN headline claims VP debate a 'draw'. Read all the right wing butthurt about how 'rude' Biden' was and how moderator was 'in the tank' of the Democrats. If CNN is reporting last night's debate was a draw, they should not be talking about whores.

CNN lost what little credibility it had left last night. They tossed their actual instant poll, which mirrored the CBS numbers, to air a bullshiat cooked poll and make it look like a draw.

I was a CNN guy for a very, very long time, and I've tried to stay with them for as long as I can, but the ratings drop has made them so desperate that it's painful to watch.


I was addicted to CNN in the late 90s to early 2000s. They had solid reporting, informative opinion shows, and were really focused on substance over style. But after 9/11 they just changed. More opinion, more flash, less substance. I completely burned out on TV news shortly after that, so I'm not sure if it was a steady slide after that or a sudden drop, but every time I come across CNN I'm completely disgusted. They even get basic facts wrong (like the current day of the week).

Fox has always been bad and MSNBC was only good for finance news back then, so I don't really care about them. But CNN was so good and fell so far, I'm actually angry at them. They really bring out my inner news junkie nerd rage.
 
Boe
2012-10-12 09:40:18 AM

blahpers: Nervous? Me?

[25.media.tumblr.com image 320x396]


That. Is. Awesome.
 
2012-10-12 09:40:40 AM

IXI Jim IXI: At least they weren't as nervous as an altar boy...


He shoots and scores!
 
2012-10-12 09:41:36 AM

urbangirl: Pants full of macaroni!!: urbangirl: Uchiha_Cycliste: automagically

i love your new word. may i add it to my vocabulary?

It's not exactly a "new" word. It is, however, an excellent word.

right up there with my other fave -- ignoranus


You can absolutely use it =3
Allow me to also suggest the use of cocksicle as a pejorative description of republican (vice)presidential candidates.
 
2012-10-12 09:41:57 AM

vernonFL: Yeah, one look at the Drudge Report confirms that Biden won.


Yep.

Poor Ryan...got savaged by mean ol Joe...
 
2012-10-12 09:42:07 AM
I kind of want to invite Joe up to the hunting shack after this debate. I bet he would be fun to have around while we play Sheepshead and drink snowshoes.

/Getting the fever
 
2012-10-12 09:43:02 AM

Bendal: Ryan didn't look good last night; he drank water constantly, had to constantly defend his positions while doing nothing to rebut Biden's comments, and at times found himself in agreement with Biden on policy decisions. When asked about specifics he gave none, when asked "what would Romney do different" he had no answer, and when it came to social issues he sounded like a right-wing theocrat.


As a Wisconsinite who lives outside of Ryan's constituency, but works in it, I've watched him over the years. When he is not talking, watch the smile on his face. It is forced and completely artificial.. He's gotten very good at it over the years. As one who thinks you can read more about a person with the way the facial expressions are than what comes out of his/her mouth, It is hard to read his mind with that forced smile. Ryan is someone I would not want to play poker with.
 
2012-10-12 09:43:11 AM

Dr Dreidel: I bolded the reasons. Style > substance. Every time. If it was about substance, Obama destroyed Romney.

// and the media couldn't call it for Biden
// they don't want to be part of the "liberal media"
// which means at best it can be a draw


Yeah. We're living in the post-reality age. Only appearances matter.
 
2012-10-12 09:43:55 AM

Dahnkster: CNN headline claims VP debate a 'draw'. Read all the right wing butthurt about how 'rude' Biden' was and how moderator was 'in the tank' of the Democrats. If CNN is reporting last night's debate was a draw, they should not be talking about whores.


By CNN's own admission, a wide majority of those they polled identified themselves as Republicans. It's almost as if they want to keep their ratings high...
 
2012-10-12 09:44:02 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Uchiha_Cycliste: Philip Francis Queeg: Uchiha_Cycliste: CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?

here was my post-debate comment:

Let me see if I have this right.
Team Romney/Ryan just lie. They lie, avoid giving ANY details, and aren't even hiding the fact they are simply running on the !Obama platform.

If you let it go and try to be reasonable, respectful and respond when asked to, as Obama did you lose.
If you go after the lies, and make it clear that you aren't letting any BS slide by, then you are considered... mean, and you lose.

As far as I can tell the democrats can't win a debate as long as Ryan/Romney refuse to be truthful or detail oriented.

Do I understand that right? As long as Romney and Ryan don't stop lying, they somehow automagically win the debates?

\WTF?

People want to believe that all of our problems can be solved with no one in the entire society being asked to sacrifice. They want to believe the Romney/Ryan fantasy that we can simultaneously lower taxes, make massive increases in defense spending, lower the deficit and slash safety net spending without harming anyone at all.


I don't understand it. Are they not aware of who was in office when it all came crashing down around us? Are they ignorant of the fact that these buffoons want to re-instate the policies that led to that meltdown in the first place? We have seen 4 years of improvement across the board in this country, how is it possibly a good thing to undo the last four years of work and try to step back 50 years?

Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?

Probably, if you forced people to really think about it , they would admit most of those things. But when one side is telling you exactly what you want to hear it's ...


But... but.. just 4 years ago we were facing possibly the worst financial disaster this country has ever seen and we just narrowly avoided it. Supposedly these folks were negatively affected by that and claim they don't want that to happen again. Don't they care about how that happened and how to prevent it? I just don't understand it. Do I just think too much?

\If so, how do I stop?
 
2012-10-12 09:44:29 AM

advex101: What was up with the moderator? She had like a Parkinsons level of quiver in her voice. The debates are batting 0-2 in moderators so far. Had the door mat for the first one and gotcha girl with the shakey voice for this one. Who is the moderator for the final debate. I vote for Emo Phillips.


Agreed. I'd like to see Gwen Ifill back in the role,but that's just me.
 
2012-10-12 09:44:47 AM
"as nervous as a hooker in church"

That's not the line. It's "sweating like a whore in church".

Another personal favorite is one I created (which you are all free to use) "sweating like a Frenchman at a German military parade".

/DNRTFA, the thread, or watch the debate.
 
2012-10-12 09:46:37 AM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: It's almost as if they want to keep their ratings high...


When were CNN's ratings high? The first Gulf War?
 
2012-10-12 09:47:05 AM

CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.


I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.
 
2012-10-12 09:47:32 AM

fruitloop: Pundit: Debater A presented his position a lot more coherently and did not resort to condescension. Debater A wins.


Because human psychology is farking weird. It's like that with classes or valedictory addresses, too - if your delivery is spot-on, the audience won't care that they've been lied to. If your delivery sucks, they won't care how good and well-supported your plans are.

If people cared about politics the way they care about sports or movie stars, we probably wouldn't need debates in the first place, but the debates would cease to be about "who won" and would be more about the fact-checks and plans presented.

Ryan broke no new ground, agreed with the President on several issues, failed to articulate what he and Romney would have done differently in Syria/Libya, added "health of the mother" to the list of abortion exceptions (while also trivializing the religious freedoms of non-Catholics), and doubled-, tripled- and quadrupled-down on some insane "numbers"; and Biden was Ornery Biden.

"We'll call it a draw."

// [black-knight.jpg]
 
2012-10-12 09:47:41 AM
As a hooker sitting in morning mass I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2012-10-12 09:47:44 AM

Cyxneo: [i.imgur.com image 799x1051]


I thought that was a joke, but didn't know for sure. I actually had to go to Fox News.

Jesus, that's real.
 
2012-10-12 09:47:54 AM

PanicMan: I was addicted to CNN in the late 90s to early 2000s. They had solid reporting, informative opinion shows, and were really focused on substance over style. But after 9/11 they just changed. More opinion, more flash, less substance. I completely burned out on TV news shortly after that, so I'm not sure if it was a steady slide after that or a sudden drop, but every time I come across CNN I'm completely disgusted. They even get basic facts wrong (like the current day of the week).


Fox started beating them in the ratings. They responded by becoming Fox-lite.

Al Jazeera and (to a lesser extent) BBC World News are about the only channels left that manage to get any real reporting done. So of course they're both attacked as puppets of the left-wing.
 
2012-10-12 09:48:11 AM
timethemoment.files.wordpress.com

I showed my husband the Time Mag Ryan workout pictorial and he commented "When I look at those picutres I imagine Ryan with a Shake-a-weight."

/And here I am outta brain-bleach.
 
2012-10-12 09:50:33 AM

James F. Campbell: Dr Dreidel: I bolded the reasons. Style > substance. Every time. If it was about substance, Obama destroyed Romney.

// and the media couldn't call it for Biden
// they don't want to be part of the "liberal media"
// which means at best it can be a draw

Yeah. We're living in the post-reality age. Only appearances matter.


If only appearances matter, I am voting for Kaley Cuoco. I would like her to appear naked, and on my face.
 
2012-10-12 09:51:37 AM

Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.


That's a pretty big projector you've got there.
 
2012-10-12 09:51:56 AM
That's not a CNN commentator, that's Paul Begala. More like a king maker.
 
2012-10-12 09:52:07 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Philip Francis Queeg: Uchiha_Cycliste: CPennypacker: Romney interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and lies all night, clear win.

Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

WTF?

here was my post-debate comment:

Let me see if I have this right.
Team Romney/Ryan just lie. They lie, avoid giving ANY details, and aren't even hiding the fact they are simply running on the !Obama platform.

If you let it go and try to be reasonable, respectful and respond when asked to, as Obama did you lose.
If you go after the lies, and make it clear that you aren't letting any BS slide by, then you are considered... mean, and you lose.

As far as I can tell the democrats can't win a debate as long as Ryan/Romney refuse to be truthful or detail oriented.

Do I understand that right? As long as Romney and Ryan don't stop lying, they somehow automagically win the debates?

\WTF?

People want to believe that all of our problems can be solved with no one in the entire society being asked to sacrifice. They want to believe the Romney/Ryan fantasy that we can simultaneously lower taxes, make massive increases in defense spending, lower the deficit and slash safety net spending without harming anyone at all.


I don't understand it. Are they not aware of who was in office when it all came crashing down around us? Are they ignorant of the fact that these buffoons want to re-instate the policies that led to that meltdown in the first place? We have seen 4 years of improvement across the board in this country, how is it possibly a good thing to undo the last four years of work and try to step back 50 years?

Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?


Just look at the previous debate. Romney was screwing up everything for months leading up to it. People started thinking he was intentionally tanking his chances.

Then the debate comes. Romney does fine appearance wise, Obama had a lackluster night. And yet that one event apparently was enough to give Romney a real fighting chance after all those mistakes he made before it. And neither did record breaking performances good or bad, but with the reaction afterwards from people you'd think Obama choked someone and Romney saved their life.

So maybe they are stupid, regardless of party that one debate where nothing was astronomically substantially done or said could have that big of change in numbers. The debate magically made Romney's mistakes all disappear to people to where they think he is a better choice.

Apparently, trying to move away from the right in this country is like climbing a mountain. You aren't allowed ANY slip ups at all or else we go back right and further.
 
2012-10-12 09:53:08 AM

Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.


As opposed to the snarky, petulant, question and fact dodging young guy? I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better. We'll call the rest of the subjects draws. Biden 6 Ryan 1.
 
2012-10-12 09:54:10 AM

Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.


Just ignore him. Makes life around here so much better.
 
2012-10-12 09:54:18 AM

RedT: [timethemoment.files.wordpress.com image 326x489]

I showed my husband the Time Mag Ryan workout pictorial and he commented "When I look at those picutres I imagine Ryan with a Shake-a-weight."

/And here I am outta brain-bleach.


I imagine Ryan leaving the gym and taking his "wicked cool" Mustang to Honey Shakers "cuz they got good wings".

But then when I see him all suited up and talking, I just start the countdown until the gay sex scandal.
 
2012-10-12 09:54:18 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?

Probably, if you forced people to really think about it , they would admit most of those things. But when one side is telling you exactly what you want to hear it's ...

But... but.. just 4 years ago we were facing possibly the worst financial disaster this country has ever seen and we just narrowly avoided it. Supposedly these folks were negatively affected by that and claim they don't want that to happen again. Don't they care about how that happened and how to prevent it? I just don't understand it. Do I just think too much?


In the past week I have had two people tell me that they really don't know what is going on, so they "have to" take what the candidates say at face value.

/and I hear that Bill gates will give you a free computer if you forward this comment in an email!
 
2012-10-12 09:54:41 AM

karmaceutical: The hilarious thing about all this is that right now there are millions of angry Conservatives tuning into to Rushbo so they can hear about how wrong it is for someone to be so belligerent and disrespectful.


I loled

/that was your intent, right?
 
2012-10-12 09:55:05 AM
So I guess the spin today is that Biden was just too disrespectful. My question for people that think that: How respectful is it to lie through your teeth 90% of the time your lips are moving? As far as I'm concerned Ryan was disrespecting the entire audience with the constant BS.
 
2012-10-12 09:55:15 AM
imageshack.us
 
2012-10-12 09:55:45 AM
I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.
 
2012-10-12 09:56:13 AM
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-12 09:56:23 AM
They looked pretty relaxed to me.

imageshack.us
 
2012-10-12 09:57:31 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?


Romney is taller than Obama so he looked more presidential. That's all they needed to know.
 
2012-10-12 09:58:25 AM
Part of me was wishing the Biden would be a little more cool under the collar towards Ryan. The other 99% of me was practically gleeful that he kept bashing Ryan and getting pissed that he kept up with the same talking points (i.e. lies). It was great seeing them called out. Biden handled Ryan like he was a pernicious teenager.

A favorite was when Ryan was bashing the administration for not sending more Marines to Libya, and Biden coming back with how Ryan voted to defund security for Embassies. Another was when Ryan was trying to say how the current admin wasn't doing enough in Syria and then got schooled on how adults handle the situation. "but.. but... you gave Putin veto power in the UN!" The fark? How can he not know how the UN has operated in all of its existence? These guys are tools.
 
2012-10-12 09:58:47 AM
timethemoment.files.wordpress.com
So when they make an HBO movie about this election, Ryan will be played by Adam Sandler?
 
2012-10-12 09:59:55 AM

NotSoup: karmaceutical: The hilarious thing about all this is that right now there are millions of angry Conservatives tuning into to Rushbo so they can hear about how wrong it is for someone to be so belligerent and disrespectful.

I loled

/that was your intent, right?


Yes, but I usually assume that no one is reading. Thanks!
 
2012-10-12 10:00:08 AM

Graffito: Uchiha_Cycliste: Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?

Romney is taller than Obama so he looked more presidential. That's all they needed to know.


Plus, he looked more, ahhhhh, how you say...um....well, you know.....he was just...uh....he looked a....ahh....he didn't.....you know, er.....he didn't um.....look so....um..."socialist?"
 
2012-10-12 10:00:33 AM

RedT: Uchiha_Cycliste: Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?

Probably, if you forced people to really think about it , they would admit most of those things. But when one side is telling you exactly what you want to hear it's ...

But... but.. just 4 years ago we were facing possibly the worst financial disaster this country has ever seen and we just narrowly avoided it. Supposedly these folks were negatively affected by that and claim they don't want that to happen again. Don't they care about how that happened and how to prevent it? I just don't understand it. Do I just think too much?

In the past week I have had two people tell me that they really don't know what is going on, so they "have to" take what the candidates say at face value.

/and I hear that Bill gates will give you a free computer if you forward this comment in an email!


Jesus Christ....

\And it's 8 emails ;)
 
2012-10-12 10:00:39 AM

Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.


He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"
 
2012-10-12 10:01:10 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: [timethemoment.files.wordpress.com image 326x489]
So when they make an HBO movie about this election, Ryan will be played by Adam Sandler?


The face is more Ryan Stiles.

i14.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-12 10:01:33 AM

Graffito: Uchiha_Cycliste: Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?

Romney is taller than Obama so he looked more presidential. That's all they needed to know.


I hate the GOP and their sheep. Our country has so much potential if we could just stop fighting and stop trying to screw everyone but the millionaires.
 
2012-10-12 10:03:08 AM

sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.


From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.
 
2012-10-12 10:03:23 AM
I thought this debate was run very well, the mod did a great job.
I think it helps having the mod right at the table with the guys, it's harder to ignore her that way.

I thought Ryan did a fair job, he hit all the points he likely planned on hitting and came off pretty well.
He, like Mitt, likes to talk about what their plan will do, without talking about how it will be done, and this debate illustrated that problem much better than the last one. Of course, that wont sink in to the Fox crowd, but that's no shocker.

I thought Joe did a great job, the VP has more room to be bold I think, and Joe did it right.
He was right on top of every point Ryan was making and he didn't let the BS (much of the same BS that Mitt spewed) go by without calling it BS, or mularkey whatever...

I did think Joe could have dialed down the mugging a bit, that's just ammo for Fox and Friends to use at their low info crowd...but, I understand where the urge to make a 'that's buuuuulllllllsheeeeeiiiit' face comes from.

I hope Obama took notes and shows up to his next debate with some fire in his belly. Obama needs to make his case clear in the middle of Mitt's shifting positions and vague BS.
 
2012-10-12 10:03:50 AM

Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.


Pretty sure the reaction among undecided voters was 50% Biden, 31% Ryan, and 19% tie. So you might want to work on your imagining there, chief.
 
2012-10-12 10:04:05 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-12 10:04:07 AM
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-10-12 10:04:12 AM

Gunther: PanicMan: I was addicted to CNN in the late 90s to early 2000s. They had solid reporting, informative opinion shows, and were really focused on substance over style. But after 9/11 they just changed. More opinion, more flash, less substance. I completely burned out on TV news shortly after that, so I'm not sure if it was a steady slide after that or a sudden drop, but every time I come across CNN I'm completely disgusted. They even get basic facts wrong (like the current day of the week).

Fox started beating them in the ratings. They responded by becoming Fox-lite.

Al Jazeera and (to a lesser extent) BBC World News are about the only channels left that manage to get any real reporting done. So of course they're both attacked as puppets of the left-wing.


I know. I hate that I can't get news on any of the 24 hour news channels.
 
2012-10-12 10:04:35 AM

dinch: Another was when Ryan was trying to say how the current admin wasn't doing enough in Syria and then got schooled on how adults handle the situation. "but.. but... you gave Putin veto power in the UN!" The fark? How can he not know how the UN has operated in all of its existence? These guys are tools.


Yeah, that was insane. He complained that the security council was a thing and said using it was a mistake in a situation where we didn't actually use it.

See, I think Ryan is a lot smarter than he presented, but he's being run by the Romney campaign who want him to stay delightfully off any given message...leaving him with shiatall but vague attacks. I mean, he farking built several budgets, he at least knows the material, and he was unable to give a single tax break that he'd eliminate. He was best used by the GOP as That One Asshole who could sit down and vomit out the piles of numbers for the rest of the GOP to wallow in. By putting him in the forefront, it cuts that advantage off at the knees; the Ryan pick is an absolutely abysmal strategic move.
 
2012-10-12 10:04:45 AM

sprawl15: Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.

He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"


Ok. Also, I forgot that Biden did a much better job explaining his stance on abortion. Ryan finally admitted that they want legislation to outlaw it, which I haven't heard spoken out loud by them before.
 
2012-10-12 10:06:07 AM

CPennypacker: Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.


"We didn't know they wanted extra security." Yeah, full of truth.
 
2012-10-12 10:07:23 AM
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-10-12 10:07:39 AM

Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.


That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.
 
2012-10-12 10:07:43 AM

Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.


That's all you got? OK then.
 
2012-10-12 10:08:51 AM

I alone am best: CPennypacker: Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

"We didn't know they wanted extra security." Yeah, full of truth.


Yeah . . .
 
2012-10-12 10:09:25 AM

sprawl15: dinch: Another was when Ryan was trying to say how the current admin wasn't doing enough in Syria and then got schooled on how adults handle the situation. "but.. but... you gave Putin veto power in the UN!" The fark? How can he not know how the UN has operated in all of its existence? These guys are tools.

Yeah, that was insane. He complained that the security council was a thing and said using it was a mistake in a situation where we didn't actually use it.

See, I think Ryan is a lot smarter than he presented, but he's being run by the Romney campaign who want him to stay delightfully off any given message...leaving him with shiatall but vague attacks. I mean, he farking built several budgets, he at least knows the material, and he was unable to give a single tax break that he'd eliminate. He was best used by the GOP as That One Asshole who could sit down and vomit out the piles of numbers for the rest of the GOP to wallow in. By putting him in the forefront, it cuts that advantage off at the knees; the Ryan pick is an absolutely abysmal strategic move.


I forget who said it, and I believe it was originally about Newt Gingrich, but "Paul Ryan is only a 'wonk' because he sounds like a smart person to dumb people".

A 'wonk' would know that Heritage and AEI are not "nonpartisan". A 'wonk' would know what the farking UN Security Council is, and who the permanent members are. A 'wonk' would know that projecting 8% economic growth (recession or no) is like wishing for a nine-way with Janeway. A 'wonk' studies a plan and can articulate it beyond what the words on the page are, and Ryan could do neither.
 
2012-10-12 10:09:27 AM

sprawl15: OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.


Hasn't Iran been three years from a bomb for like the last 17 years?
 
2012-10-12 10:09:46 AM
ALrighty, I'm frustrated with my countrymen and (potential) representatives. I'm going to go mountain bike for a few hours TTYall at 10 or 11.
 
2012-10-12 10:10:05 AM

sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.


It's the same exact argument that Bibi has used every time I've seen him interviewed: "Iran is four years closer than they were four years ago."

Yet somehow they're always six months away from a complete bomb.
 
2012-10-12 10:10:15 AM

sprawl15: Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.


I laughed at that too. He may as well have said "Every single one of us is four years closer to death than we were before this administration took office."
 
2012-10-12 10:10:18 AM

Cyxneo: [i.imgur.com image 799x1051]


That's photoshopped. There is no way a news organization would have that as news. It just isn't possible.

*checks Fox News*

Well, I'll be damned.
 
2012-10-12 10:10:42 AM

Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.


Ryan got destroyed on Iran. Biden even got him to admit that Netanyahu is exaggerating the progress of its nuclear capability. That one floored me. I'm betting Romney fielded some very, very pissed off calls from Adelson that night.
 
2012-10-12 10:10:47 AM

NeoCortex42: So I guess the spin today is that Biden was just too disrespectful. My question for people that think that: How respectful is it to lie through your teeth 90% of the time your lips are moving? As far as I'm concerned Ryan was disrespecting the entire audience with the constant BS.


I expect the President to act Presidential. I expect the VP to be able to act as the President's bulldog when need be and call out BS.

Amazing how those that beat their chest and crowed that Romney beat Obama now have their panties in a twist because Mean Old Joe beat up on poor defenseless Eddie.
 
2012-10-12 10:11:58 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: [i.imgur.com image 320x960]


Joe: You're a better debater than Palin was.
Paul: Well, thank you, Joe.
Joe: Just kidding. Palin had tits.
Paul: :(
 
2012-10-12 10:12:26 AM

Buffalo77: [sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 403x403]


You sound angry.
 
2012-10-12 10:12:35 AM
I'm curious why the Democrats are so afraid of the word 'lie'. Joe couldn't even say tell the truth, had to throw the Malarkey word out there. Some unspoken political code? Because I would be saying lie a lot if I were talking to Ryan.

As for everyone calling Romney a robot, look at Ryan. That's a face of practiced emotions like a sociopath. Romney is just out of touch as a wealthy person, I think he has empathy and emotion. Ryan looks like he's faking every emotion.
 
2012-10-12 10:12:53 AM

I alone am best: CPennypacker: Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

"We didn't know they wanted extra security." Yeah, full of truth.


The requests for security didn't go up more than 2-3 levels above the embassy and even if they did and we reinforced Bengahzi, it wouldn't have helped. The attack was so large and obviously conducted with inside information that it simply would have added to our body count.
 
2012-10-12 10:12:58 AM

sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.


the line I heard on the radio that i found scary from Ryan was he said something like 4 years ago Iran had enough nuclear material to make 1 bomb (untrue) and now they have enough to make 5 (untrue). It totally reminded me of the race to go to war with Iraq.
 
2012-10-12 10:13:00 AM

NeoCortex42: So I guess the spin today is that Biden was just too disrespectful. My question for people that think that: How respectful is it to lie through your teeth 90% of the time your lips are moving? As far as I'm concerned Ryan was disrespecting the entire audience with the constant BS.


he even tried to use that snipped quote from Obama's 2008 acceptance speech (the part Ryan used in bold):

...I know there are those who dismiss such beliefs as happy talk. They claim that our insistence on something larger, something firmer, and more honest in our public life is just a Trojan horse for higher taxes and the abandonment of traditional values.

And that's to be expected, because if you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare voters.

If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from. You make a big election about small things.

And you know what? It's worked before, because it feeds into the cynicism we all have about government. When Washington doesn't work, all its promises seem empty. If your hopes have been dashed again and again, then it's best to stop hoping and settle for what you already know.

I get it. I realize that I am not the likeliest candidate for this office. I don't fit the typical pedigree, and I haven't spent my career in the halls of Washington.

But I stand before you tonight because all across America something is stirring. What the naysayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me; it's about you...




I've seen low info morons passing this quote around as though Obama was confessing to using these tactics when in fact he's obviously referring to his opponents tactics. How lame do you have to be to snip quotes like that and then try to pass them off as something else in the middle of a live debate?

you know why Ryan does this? because he knows the average Fox viewer will take his misleading and frankly insulting bait and swallow it whole. Without any consideration for the truth.

I'd be insulted if I thought he was talking that weak BS at me.
 
2012-10-12 10:14:09 AM

sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.


I'm glad Joe said everyone needs to calm down on the Iran panic. Yes it's something to watch and be aware of, it's not something worth going to war over tomorrow.
 
2012-10-12 10:14:50 AM

EyeballKid: Graffito: Uchiha_Cycliste: Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?

Romney is taller than Obama so he looked more presidential. That's all they needed to know.

Plus, he looked more, ahhhhh, how you say...um....well, you know.....he was just...uh....he looked a....ahh....he didn't.....you know, er.....he didn't um.....look so....um..."socialist?"


black exactly.
 
2012-10-12 10:16:01 AM

Petey4335:

As a Wisconsinite who lives outside of Ryan's constituency, but works in it, I've watched him over the years. When he is not talking, watch the smile on his face. It is forced and completely artificial.. He's gotten very good at it over the years.


You mean, like this?

blogs.roanoke.com

I love how Bad Lip Reading portrays Rmoney's laugh. Kinda like a braying horse.
 
2012-10-12 10:16:48 AM

NeoCortex42: It's the same exact argument that Bibi has used every time I've seen him interviewed: "Iran is four years closer than they were four years ago."

Yet somehow they're always six months away from a complete bomb.


Netanyahu has been talking about these dangers for 15 years now and says he continues to do so now because the hour is getting late.

Link

He has been pushing this since about the time Google was started. Coincidence? Absolutely yes!
 
2012-10-12 10:17:10 AM

sprawl15: I alone am best: CPennypacker: Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

"We didn't know they wanted extra security." Yeah, full of truth.

The requests for security didn't go up more than 2-3 levels above the embassy and even if they did and we reinforced Bengahzi, it wouldn't have helped. The attack was so large and obviously conducted with inside information that it simply would have added to our body count.


2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration. You would think in a country that just went through a civil war with known active terrorist elements more security would be common sense.
 
2012-10-12 10:17:36 AM

wooden_badger: I expect the President to act Presidential. I expect the VP to be able to act as the President's bulldog when need be and call out BS.

Amazing how those that beat their chest and crowed that Romney beat Obama now have their panties in a twist because Mean Old Joe beat up on poor defenseless Eddie.


Never mind that Romney was the one disrespectfully smirking at the deaths of those during the embassy attack. Romney and Ryan could eat a bowl of live puppies on stage, and Republican pundits would say, "Remember that time Obama ate dog? How foreign and terrorist-y of him. That's something that good Americans just don't do. Vote Republican!"
 
2012-10-12 10:18:33 AM

unexplained bacon: NeoCortex42: So I guess the spin today is that Biden was just too disrespectful. My question for people that think that: How respectful is it to lie through your teeth 90% of the time your lips are moving? As far as I'm concerned Ryan was disrespecting the entire audience with the constant BS.

he even tried to use that snipped quote from Obama's 2008 acceptance speech (the part Ryan used in bold):

...I know there are those who dismiss such beliefs as happy talk. They claim that our insistence on something larger, something firmer, and more honest in our public life is just a Trojan horse for higher taxes and the abandonment of traditional values.

And that's to be expected, because if you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare voters.

If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from. You make a big election about small things.

And you know what? It's worked before, because it feeds into the cynicism we all have about government. When Washington doesn't work, all its promises seem empty. If your hopes have been dashed again and again, then it's best to stop hoping and settle for what you already know.

I get it. I realize that I am not the likeliest candidate for this office. I don't fit the typical pedigree, and I haven't spent my career in the halls of Washington.

But I stand before you tonight because all across America something is stirring. What the naysayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me; it's about you...



I've seen low info morons passing this quote around as though Obama was confessing to using these tactics when in fact he's obviously referring to his opponents tactics. How lame do you have to be to snip quotes like that and then try to pass them off as something else in the middle of a live debate?

you know why Ryan does this? because he knows the average Fox viewer will take his misleading and frankly insulting bait and swallow it whole. ...


I get what he was trying to go for there. He was trying to call Obama a sellout for using the same tactics that he decried four years ago.

Of course, he then immediately started painting Biden (and by extension, Obama) as somebody to run away from, so at best, he's a hypocrite.
 
2012-10-12 10:19:13 AM

WaitWhatWhy: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

Pretty sure the reaction among undecided voters was 50% Biden, 31% Ryan, and 19% tie. So you might want to work on your imagining there, chief.


So, we're now to believe the instapolls? Even the CNN poll with its Ryan 48 percent, Biden 44 percent poll, a statistical tie within the 5 percentage point margin? Which, I learned earlier from farklibs means Ryan just as likely received 53 percent as he did 43 percent. Or something like that.

Face it, you all wanted so much for Joe to hand Ryan his lunch. He didn't but keep trying.
 
2012-10-12 10:19:16 AM

Jackson Herring: sprawl15: OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.

Hasn't Iran been three years from a bomb for like the last 17 years?


And Republicans have claimed to have a 10 year energy independence plan since the Nixon days.
 
2012-10-12 10:19:17 AM

Gunther: imontheinternet: Romney and Ryan are losing the election, so the media has to say they won or at least tied the debates in order to keep the mouthbreathers from thinking the election is over and switching back to the white trash voyeurism networks.

This.

The night of the first debate, most people thought it was either a tie or a very slight win for Romney: Obama was too passive but Romney lied like a used car salesman. A day of spin and suddenly the consensus was that it was a brutal shellacking that completely turned the race around.

The media will do damn near anything to get the horse race they want. Obama leading by 10 points was NOT good for them, and they aren't about to admit Biden kicked Ryan's ass while Obama/Biden are still a few points ahead.


It's funny to hear conservatives trot out the "liberal media" line after the media's treatment of the first presidential debate.
 
2012-10-12 10:19:24 AM

Headso: It totally reminded me of the race to go to war with Iraq.


It sounded like Ryan was trying to beat that drum, but Biden destroyed him on the facts and then mocked him for trying to start another ground war in the Middle East.

Dr Dreidel: A 'wonk' would know that Heritage and AEI are not "nonpartisan". A 'wonk' would know what the farking UN Security Council is, and who the permanent members are. A 'wonk' would know that projecting 8% economic growth (recession or no) is like wishing for a nine-way with Janeway. A 'wonk' studies a plan and can articulate it beyond what the words on the page are, and Ryan could do neither.


See, though, his role isn't to be truthful. He doesn't have to tell the truth to be reasonably intelligent or know how budgets are made, etc. To be a great troll, you need to know the details of whatever you're being ignorant about.

Jackson Herring: Hasn't Iran been three years from a bomb for like the last 17 years?


Depending on the election season, they've come as close as one year from a bomb.
 
2012-10-12 10:19:31 AM

Headso: sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.

the line I heard on the radio that i found scary from Ryan was he said something like 4 years ago Iran had enough nuclear material to make 1 bomb (untrue) and now they have enough to make 5 (untrue). It totally reminded me of the race to go to war with Iraq.


I thought they did, they just need to refine it.
 
2012-10-12 10:19:42 AM

Bendal: Other than the media's determination to keep the "this race is a close one" meme alive, Ryan got his ass handed to him last night and everyone who watched the debate knows it.


I respectfully disagree. I believe both men achieved the goals they set forth In respect to their bases. Fightin' Joe showed up and made Democrats happy. Ryan demonstrated at least a basic competency in foreign and domestic matters that will satisfy Romney supporters. That's a big deal, see Sarah Palin.

Both did a good job representing their candidates and didn't harm either presidential candidate for the most part. Yes, to republicans Biden came off as rude and disrespectful. Yes, to democrats Ryan was full of lies and unable to rebutt. Neither really scored any major points but neither made any major faux paus either. Both assured their bases that their respective ticket was in good shape. That's about all you can ask of a VP debate. In a week this won't matter anyway as we move on to Obama Romney 2: Electric Boogaloo.

Full Disclosure: I live in such a solidly red state that my vote doesn't matter so I'm able to try and take a neutral view. Does that make me a Fark Independant tm? Your call. I focus on my local, state, and representative elections. That's where my vote can make an impact.
 
2012-10-12 10:19:47 AM
I was said when Ryan set himself to be torn to shreds over Iran and Biden played fairly nice. Although it was a smooth move to talk on being on the same page as Israeli intelligence to play to the Jewish vote. I'd have loved to see Biden hammer Ryan over Iran just ending up as Iraq 2.0 a bit more though. Vote for R^2 if you like Middle Eastern quagmires.
 
2012-10-12 10:20:05 AM

rorypk: I'm curious why the Democrats are so afraid of the word 'lie'. Joe couldn't even say tell the truth, had to throw the Malarkey word out there. Some unspoken political code? Because I would be saying lie a lot if I were talking to Ryan.

As for everyone calling Romney a robot, look at Ryan. That's a face of practiced emotions like a sociopath. Romney is just out of touch as a wealthy person, I think he has empathy and emotion. Ryan looks like he's faking every emotion.


A "lie" means you know the truth and are deliberately saying something false. Malarkey includes "lies, exaggerations, errors and half-truths." Bullshiat in other words. A lie is hard to prove because you to show the person saying it, knows that it is false. It is a character attack effectively. A harsh one. Painting your opponent as full of shiat is also a character attack but in the case of Ryan it is much easier to achieve.
 
2012-10-12 10:20:20 AM

Maud Dib: Jackson Herring: What does malarkey mean?

People apparently rushed to their computers to find out. "Malarkey," it turns out, was the third-most-searched debate-related term of the night on Google. It was also trending on Twitter for a good chunk of time.

fark this earth

I think an occasional "Hogwash" from Joe would have been awesome.
And more cowbell.



I'm kinda partial to "codswallop".
 
2012-10-12 10:20:26 AM

I alone am best: You would think in a country that just went through a civil war with known active terrorist elements more security would be common sense.


You'd think that, but Republicans in Congress voted to cut funding for embassy security, so...
 
2012-10-12 10:20:33 AM
Fark me... I missed the debate last night and haven't read or watched any news since I got off work, but I'm watching the debate on youtube right now. I'm 29 mins in and Biden is wiping the farking floor with Ryan. It's what Obama should have done last time.
 
2012-10-12 10:21:01 AM

I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: CPennypacker: Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

"We didn't know they wanted extra security." Yeah, full of truth.

The requests for security didn't go up more than 2-3 levels above the embassy and even if they did and we reinforced Bengahzi, it wouldn't have helped. The attack was so large and obviously conducted with inside information that it simply would have added to our body count.

2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration. You would think in a country that just went through a civil war with known active terrorist elements more security would be common sense.


First, you just described a lot of places. Second, and embassy is not a military base. We don't put in enough weaponry to hold off a determined assault. Being a diplomat has always has risk. We knowingly put our representatives under the protection of the host country.
 
2012-10-12 10:21:12 AM

RedT: [timethemoment.files.wordpress.com image 326x489]

I showed my husband the Time Mag Ryan workout pictorial and he commented "When I look at those picutres I imagine Ryan with a Shake-a-weight."

/And here I am outta brain-bleach.


I read that as "Time 'Meg Ryan'", but either way:

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-12 10:21:16 AM

Jackson Herring: sprawl15: OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.

Hasn't Iran been three years from a bomb for like the last 17 years?


I heard they will have one tomorrow, but tomorrow never comes....
 
2012-10-12 10:21:22 AM
Ryan really wants Americans dying in the most dangerous areas of Afghanistan instead of Afghanis.
 
2012-10-12 10:21:34 AM

sprawl15: Headso: It totally reminded me of the race to go to war with Iraq.

It sounded like Ryan was trying to beat that drum, but Biden destroyed him on the facts and then mocked him for trying to start another ground war in the Middle East.


that's all well and good if Romney/Ryan don't win but if they do he tipped his hand there with where we will be going with foreign policy.
 
2012-10-12 10:22:01 AM

qorkfiend: You'd think that, but Republicans in Congress voted to cut funding for embassy security, so...


Accountability isn't directly mentioned in the Constitution, so Repubs are immune to it.
 
2012-10-12 10:23:15 AM

Cletus C.: WaitWhatWhy: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

Pretty sure the reaction among undecided voters was 50% Biden, 31% Ryan, and 19% tie. So you might want to work on your imagining there, chief.

So, we're now to believe the instapolls? Even the CNN poll with its Ryan 48 percent, Biden 44 percent poll, a statistical tie within the 5 percentage point margin? Which, I learned earlier from farklibs means Ryan just as likely received 53 percent as he did 43 percent. Or something like that.

Face it, you all wanted so much for Joe to hand Ryan his lunch. He didn't but keep trying.


Joe won on substance. He lost on etiquette. Ryan didn't mess up horribly which is all I was hoping for. Biden came out swinging and ended up looking like a douche. I guess its better to look like a douche that won than look like a douche and lose.
 
2012-10-12 10:23:25 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: urbangirl: Pants full of macaroni!!: urbangirl: Uchiha_Cycliste: automagically

i love your new word. may i add it to my vocabulary?

It's not exactly a "new" word. It is, however, an excellent word.

right up there with my other fave -- ignoranus

You can absolutely use it =3
Allow me to also suggest the use of cocksicle as a pejorative description of republican (vice)presidential candidates.


Nice. But I don't use language like that -- I'm a classy broad.
 
2012-10-12 10:23:51 AM

HeartBurnKid: unexplained bacon: NeoCortex42: So I guess the spin today is that Biden was just too disrespectful. My question for people that think that: How respectful is it to lie through your teeth 90% of the time your lips are moving? As far as I'm concerned Ryan was disrespecting the entire audience with the constant BS.

he even tried to use that snipped quote from Obama's 2008 acceptance speech (the part Ryan used in bold):

...I know there are those who dismiss such beliefs as happy talk. They claim that our insistence on something larger, something firmer, and more honest in our public life is just a Trojan horse for higher taxes and the abandonment of traditional values.

And that's to be expected, because if you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare voters.

If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from. You make a big election about small things.

And you know what? It's worked before, because it feeds into the cynicism we all have about government. When Washington doesn't work, all its promises seem empty. If your hopes have been dashed again and again, then it's best to stop hoping and settle for what you already know.

I get it. I realize that I am not the likeliest candidate for this office. I don't fit the typical pedigree, and I haven't spent my career in the halls of Washington.

But I stand before you tonight because all across America something is stirring. What the naysayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me; it's about you...



I've seen low info morons passing this quote around as though Obama was confessing to using these tactics when in fact he's obviously referring to his opponents tactics. How lame do you have to be to snip quotes like that and then try to pass them off as something else in the middle of a live debate?

you know why Ryan does this? because he knows the average Fox viewer will take his misleading and frankly insulting bait an ...


I don't know, I've seen that exact snip of a quote on RW blogs being passed around as Obama admitting his tactics in his own words repeatedly. When I heard Ryan break it out it sounded like he was just borrowing that same lame talking point, not trying to make the point that Obama has strayed or anything...could be wrong.
 
2012-10-12 10:24:16 AM
I'd like a conservative to answer this question:

Ryan states the problem with troop withdrawl is, as troops leave Afghanistan, the troops still there are less safe.
What plan do Republicans have that makes troops safer than having all them back in their homes by 2014?
 
2012-10-12 10:24:27 AM

sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.


The one part where I wished I could have answered for Ryan was when Biden complained that the repubs cut the security funding. "Well sir if we can afford an honor guard for the French ambas, we can set our priorited right and spend the money we have and not the imaginary amount you think you want. I would have shifted the money from superflious security details in stable countries and used it to protect our amasidors in middling to less stable countries. The american people are not your piggy bank"
 
2012-10-12 10:24:35 AM

qorkfiend: I alone am best: You would think in a country that just went through a civil war with known active terrorist elements more security would be common sense.

You'd think that, but Republicans in Congress voted to cut funding for embassy security, so...


Funny they had money to waste everywhere else except on of the most dangerous places we have diplomats.
 
2012-10-12 10:25:06 AM

I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.


So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.
 
2012-10-12 10:25:26 AM

I alone am best: Cletus C.: WaitWhatWhy: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

Pretty sure the reaction among undecided voters was 50% Biden, 31% Ryan, and 19% tie. So you might want to work on your imagining there, chief.

So, we're now to believe the instapolls? Even the CNN poll with its Ryan 48 percent, Biden 44 percent poll, a statistical tie within the 5 percentage point margin? Which, I learned earlier from farklibs means Ryan just as likely received 53 percent as he did 43 percent. Or something like that.

Face it, you all wanted so much for Joe to hand Ryan his lunch. He didn't but keep trying.

Joe won on substance. He lost on etiquette. Ryan didn't mess up horribly which is all I was hoping for. Biden came out swinging and ended up looking like a douche. I guess its better to look like a douche that won than look like a douche and lose.


He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.
 
2012-10-12 10:26:48 AM

I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: CPennypacker: Biden interrupts, take charge, has the last word every time, is assertive, and tells the truth, clear tie.

"We didn't know they wanted extra security." Yeah, full of truth.

The requests for security didn't go up more than 2-3 levels above the embassy and even if they did and we reinforced Bengahzi, it wouldn't have helped. The attack was so large and obviously conducted with inside information that it simply would have added to our body count.

2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration. You would think in a country that just went through a civil war with known active terrorist elements more security would be common sense.


Then blame Ryan. He voted against more funds for embassy security. Or not, I mean, that would hurt your well-crafted narrative that all Dem bad, all GOP good.
 
2012-10-12 10:27:22 AM

I alone am best: Headso: sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.

the line I heard on the radio that i found scary from Ryan was he said something like 4 years ago Iran had enough nuclear material to make 1 bomb (untrue) and now they have enough to make 5 (untrue). It totally reminded me of the race to go to war with Iraq.

I thought they did, they just need to refine it.


the refining it is what makes it into "nuclear material to build a bomb" so.... they don't have any nuclear material to make a bomb. This is the same bullshiat from the Iraq war, twisted "facts" half truths and straight up lying that convinced the tards a regime that couldn't even project power in their own country was a threat to America.
 
2012-10-12 10:28:06 AM

sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.


No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.
 
2012-10-12 10:28:24 AM

CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.


And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.
 
2012-10-12 10:29:33 AM

Lord_Baull: I'd like a conservative to answer this question:

Ryan states the problem with troop withdrawl is, as troops leave Afghanistan, the troops still there are less safe.
What plan do Republicans have that makes troops safer than having all them back in their homes by 2014?


It a top secret plan called Operation Irsay. In the middle of the night every American is packed up and flown to Indianapolis for a huge welcome home bash. The Afghanis will be surprised and pissed the next morning when they find they no longer have Americans to root for. But one day they might get another expansion war.
 
2012-10-12 10:30:25 AM

I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.


So you're saying every decision goes through Obama. Got it. Gotta make sure all blame goes to Fartbummer.

Still working on that GED?
 
2012-10-12 10:30:48 AM

I alone am best: I thought they did, they just need to refine it.


Problem is, that's not some trivial task. It's not brewed up in a bathtub still. It's like saying that Iran is close to having F-22 equivalent fighters because they have a pile of scrap metal and they just need to 'refine it'.

There IS a risk of them having a dirty bomb, but that wasn't the focus of the debate conversation.
 
2012-10-12 10:31:25 AM

Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.


Only inbred hicks with hick names can't stand Joe. Everybody else who is not low-information: yeah, no problem with Joe.
 
2012-10-12 10:32:37 AM

Cletus C.: And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.


lol, this is a post from a guy who up thread was claiming to be non-partisan
 
2012-10-12 10:35:25 AM

Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.


you may not like the attitude with which he repeatedly knocked down Ryan's BS talking points, but for me it was just fine as long as the BS Romney/Ryan are trying to sell gets called BS.

After Obama's debate where he politely moved on from Mitt's lies I was glad to see a spirited smack down.

All the RWers on fark were gloating all over the place after the first debate and yet I couldn't get one of you to address one of my favorite big Mitt lies of the night (his healthcare plan covers preexisting conditions). I could see quite clearly the best chance anyone will get to call a lie a lie is right there at the debate and Joe seemed to be aware of that. Good for him...a little less of the face making might have been better though.

You don't like your guys being called liars? Then they should stop lying.
 
2012-10-12 10:35:50 AM

LarryDan43: Ryan really wants Americans dying in the most dangerous areas of Afghanistan instead of Afghanis.


Even better, he wants to postpone the withdrawal in order to send even more Americans into the most dangerous areas instead of the local forces. All this from the intellectual leader of the Tea Party. I suppose a dim bulb looks bright in a dark room.
 
2012-10-12 10:38:55 AM

unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

you may not like the attitude with which he repeatedly knocked down Ryan's BS talking points, but for me it was just fine as long as the BS Romney/Ryan are trying to sell gets called BS.

After Obama's debate where he politely moved on from Mitt's lies I was glad to see a spirited smack down.

All the RWers on fark were gloating all over the place after the first debate and yet I couldn't get one of you to address one of my favorite big Mitt lies of the night (his healthcare plan covers preexisting conditions). I could see quite clearly the best chance anyone will get to call a lie a lie is right there at the debate and Joe seemed to be aware of that. Good for him...a little less of the face making might have been better though.

You don't like your guys being called liars? Then they should stop lying.


But then they wouldn't have anything to say.
 
2012-10-12 10:39:13 AM

I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.


So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.
 
2012-10-12 10:39:28 AM

Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.


So, he's the Tea Party affiliate?
 
2012-10-12 10:39:48 AM

coeyagi: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

Only inbred hicks with hick names can't stand Joe. Everybody else who is not low-information: yeah, no problem with Joe.


Ironically, Old Joe comes across as that inbred hick. I thought that was what we were supposed to like about him.
 
2012-10-12 10:40:36 AM

Spartapuss: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

So, he's the Tea Party affiliate?


Exactly like that.
 
2012-10-12 10:41:48 AM

I alone am best: Headso: sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.

the line I heard on the radio that i found scary from Ryan was he said something like 4 years ago Iran had enough nuclear material to make 1 bomb (untrue) and now they have enough to make 5 (untrue). It totally reminded me of the race to go to war with Iraq.

I thought they did, they just need to refine it.


That's true, but it's not cheap or easy or quick to do and almost impossible to do without being discovered. In other words, they're at like step 4 of a 20-step ladder.
 
2012-10-12 10:42:44 AM

Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.


Ok, you can go with that, but it just makes the fact laced smack down Biden delivered even worse, Ryan had to back away from so many of his own talking points it showed that either they were lies, or even he didn't know the details of what Romney/Ryan are running on...

Buy yeah, Old mean Joe didn't give poor Ryan his jersey after taking his soda.... stick with that...
 
2012-10-12 10:43:40 AM

Cletus C.: coeyagi: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

Only inbred hicks with hick names can't stand Joe. Everybody else who is not low-information: yeah, no problem with Joe.

Ironically, Old Joe comes across as that inbred hick. I thought that was what we were supposed to like about him.


Only for those who want to believe that so that it fits their narrative. It's ok, you obviously have no understanding of where Joe comes from or where h's lived. I do. I've lived in or visited all the places he's lived.
 
2012-10-12 10:50:25 AM

Carn: unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

you may not like the attitude with which he repeatedly knocked down Ryan's BS talking points, but for me it was just fine as long as the BS Romney/Ryan are trying to sell gets called BS.

After Obama's debate where he politely moved on from Mitt's lies I was glad to see a spirited smack down.

All the RWers on fark were gloating all over the place after the first debate and yet I couldn't get one of you to address one of my favorite big Mitt lies of the night (his healthcare plan covers preexisting conditions). I could see quite clearly the best chance anyone will get to call a lie a lie is right there at the debate and Joe seemed to be aware of that. Good for him...a little less of the face making might have been better though.

You don't like your guys being called liars? Then they should stop lying.

But then they wouldn't have anything to say.


It was painfully obvious after the first debate that our regular RWers on fark wouldn't touch the actual substance of the things Mitt was saying....

how is he going to pay for his proposed plan? deductions, isn't an answer, it's the start of an answer and they leave it right there. The RWers wouldn't get into that because they have nothing to say, because Mitt/Ryan haven't given any details. It's a plan to make a plan that's sold as an actual plan. BS

Mitt tried to pass off his proposal to go back to the old rule (that was killing people) in health ins. which is that you can't deny coverage for preexisting conditions to people who have maintained continuous coverage as being the same as the new rule under obamacare which solved a major problem for millions of Americans.

The fark RW didn't want to talk about those big lies at all, because they actually know they're lies. They just don't care.
 
2012-10-12 10:53:56 AM

Mercutio74: Fark me... I missed the debate last night and haven't read or watched any news since I got off work, but I'm watching the debate on youtube right now. I'm 29 mins in and Biden is wiping the farking floor with Ryan. It's what Obama should have done last time.


Problem for Obama now is that he's really going to have to nail it next time to avoid appearing timid by comparison.
 
2012-10-12 11:01:26 AM

unexplained bacon: how is he going to pay for his proposed plan?


Easy. He's assuming a greater annual GDP growth rate than we've ever experienced.
 
2012-10-12 11:03:39 AM

sprawl15: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.


Got it, unless they are personally involved then they have no accountability. He must not have known that country just had a civil war.
 
2012-10-12 11:04:08 AM
That expression doesn't make any sense. Jesus was cool with hookers.
 
2012-10-12 11:06:51 AM

coeyagi: Cletus C.: coeyagi: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

Only inbred hicks with hick names can't stand Joe. Everybody else who is not low-information: yeah, no problem with Joe.

Ironically, Old Joe comes across as that inbred hick. I thought that was what we were supposed to like about him.

Only for those who want to believe that so that it fits their narrative. It's ok, you obviously have no understanding of where Joe comes from or where h's lived. I do. I've lived in or visited all the places he's lived.


Eww. My condolences.
 
2012-10-12 11:08:54 AM

unexplained bacon: Carn: unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

you may not like the attitude with which he repeatedly knocked down Ryan's BS talking points, but for me it was just fine as long as the BS Romney/Ryan are trying to sell gets called BS.

After Obama's debate where he politely moved on from Mitt's lies I was glad to see a spirited smack down.

All the RWers on fark were gloating all over the place after the first debate and yet I couldn't get one of you to address one of my favorite big Mitt lies of the night (his healthcare plan covers preexisting conditions). I could see quite clearly the best chance anyone will get to call a lie a lie is right there at the debate and Joe seemed to be aware of that. Good for him...a little less of the face making might have been better though.

You don't like your guys being called liars? Then they should stop lying.

But then they wouldn't have anything to say.

It was painfully obvious after the first debate that our regular RWers on fark wouldn't touch the actual substance of the things Mitt was saying....

how is he going to pay for his proposed plan? deductions, isn't an answer, it's the start of an answer and they leave it right there. The RWers wouldn't get into that because they have nothing to say, because Mitt/Ryan haven't given any details. It's a plan to make a plan that's sold as an actual plan. BS

Mitt tried to pass off his proposal to go back to the old rule (that was killing people) in health ins. which is that you can't deny coverage for preexisting conditions to people who have maintained continuous coverage as being the same as the new rule under obamacare which solved a major problem for millions of Americans.

The fark RW didn't want to talk about those big lies at all, bec ...


Well they know that anyone who knows the facts about the two parties has already made up their mind on how to vote, right now the republicans are just trying to get the undecided voters to pick them. With the elections so close and things so divided on platforms anyone who doesn't know who to pick yet would unlikely be the type to fact check, they are just trying to tell those people what they want to hear no matter if its true or not and hope something sticks until after the election...


/swiftboating
 
2012-10-12 11:09:27 AM

I alone am best: Got it, unless they are personally involved then they have no personal accountability.


Correct. That's how it works.

I alone am best: He must not have known that country just had a civil war.


Hey, look, you're being confused by your own hindsight.
 
2012-10-12 11:11:27 AM

Cletus C.: coeyagi: Cletus C.: coeyagi: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

Only inbred hicks with hick names can't stand Joe. Everybody else who is not low-information: yeah, no problem with Joe.

Ironically, Old Joe comes across as that inbred hick. I thought that was what we were supposed to like about him.

Only for those who want to believe that so that it fits their narrative. It's ok, you obviously have no understanding of where Joe comes from or where h's lived. I do. I've lived in or visited all the places he's lived.

Eww. My condolences.


With few exceptions, I gather living anywhere above the Mason Dixon line is better than not. So yeah, it's fine.
 
2012-10-12 11:12:24 AM

NeoCortex42: sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.

It's the same exact argument that Bibi has used every time I've seen him interviewed: "Iran is four years closer than they were four years ago."

Yet somehow they're always six months away from a complete bomb.


Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them? For us? In my mind, Iran gets a nuke and maybe makes veiled threats to use it or something. What happens then? The entire developed world comes down on them militarily and they either burn their nukes in the ensuing war or get nuked themselves.

I'm not really up on foreign stuff, so someone explain to me a scenario where Iran getting a nuclear strike capability plays out favorably for them.
 
2012-10-12 11:13:12 AM
hello joe!
 
2012-10-12 11:15:46 AM

AngryPanda: Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them?


There's the direct threat of Iran using it on Israel - they really, really hate Israel because it's one of the few things that helps them not be hated by the rest of the Muslim world (they're not Arabs, and their Islam is the wrong Islam). The leadership is also crazy enough that they may try it if an opportunity flares up; say, a nearby country starts a shooting war with Israel.

Then there's the indirect threat of them using nuclear weapons as a terror tool; the suitcase nuke meme. In this case, the tools to create a full nuclear weapon aren't even that necessary, as a dirty bomb is itself extremely dangerous and can be made with only conventional explosives.
 
2012-10-12 11:15:50 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: So when they make an HBO movie about this election, Ryan will be played by Adam Sandler?


Because Jim Varney is dead.
 
2012-10-12 11:16:49 AM

AngryPanda: NeoCortex42: sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.

It's the same exact argument that Bibi has used every time I've seen him interviewed: "Iran is four years closer than they were four years ago."

Yet somehow they're always six months away from a complete bomb.

Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them? For us? In my mind, Iran gets a nuke and maybe makes veiled threats to use it or something. What happens then? The entire developed world comes down on them militarily and they either burn their nukes in the ensuing war or get nuked themselves.

I'm not really up on foreign stuff, so someone explain to me a scenario where Iran getting a nuclear strike capability plays out favorably for them.


Well, I tell you what won't happen: A unilateral strike from Iran. They know the Israeli's have their own nukes and would glass their entire country in retaliation. They are also aware that the US has extended its missile shield over its various Allies in the Middle-East as well. Using one is a no win situation.

The potential for danger from an Iranian nuclear weapon comes from the resulting arms race it would spark in the other nations around the mid-east. Iran is primarily a different religious make up than most of the rest of the mid east, definitely the gulf states. They don't get along because of this. The Logic, is that if Iran gets a nuke, then Saudi Arabia and other gulf states will want to obtain one as well.
 
2012-10-12 11:17:31 AM

Cletus C.: WaitWhatWhy: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

Pretty sure the reaction among undecided voters was 50% Biden, 31% Ryan, and 19% tie. So you might want to work on your imagining there, chief.

So, we're now to believe the instapolls? Even the CNN poll with its Ryan 48 percent, Biden 44 percent poll, a statistical tie within the 5 percentage point margin? Which, I learned earlier from farklibs means Ryan just as likely received 53 percent as he did 43 percent. Or something like that.

Face it, you all wanted so much for Joe to hand Ryan his lunch. He didn't but keep trying.


Honestly, I early voted for Jill Stein, so I could really not care less. However, the CNN poll was all watchers, while the one I linked was undecideds, which was what you were talking about. As more polls come out, we'll get a better idea, but I'm working with what I could find at the moment. So the debate was a tie when you factor in voters who are "deep in that trench", but when you look at the impact on undecideds it seems like Joe won, given what we know now. Don't know that I can make it any simpler for you.

/TL:DR: Got bored, fed troll.
 
2012-10-12 11:18:13 AM
Ryan states the problem with troop withdrawl is, as troops leave Afghanistan, the troops still there are less safe.
What plan do Republicans have that makes troops safer than having all them back in their homes by 2014?


So, no answers from resident FARK conservatives?

Not surprised.
 
2012-10-12 11:18:22 AM

Carn: sprawl15: Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.

He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"

Ok. Also, I forgot that Biden did a much better job explaining his stance on abortion. Ryan finally admitted that they want legislation to outlaw it, which I haven't heard spoken out loud by them before.


It's bizarre he'd mention Romney's record as governor minutes before when he was pro-choice and then shift to Romney as being pro-life for his argument against abortion.
 
2012-10-12 11:18:33 AM

sprawl15: AngryPanda: Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them?

There's the direct threat of Iran using it on Israel - they really, really hate Israel because it's one of the few things that helps them not be hated by the rest of the Muslim world (they're not Arabs, and their Islam is the wrong Islam). The leadership is also crazy enough that they may try it if an opportunity flares up; say, a nearby country starts a shooting war with Israel.

Then there's the indirect threat of them using nuclear weapons as a terror tool; the suitcase nuke meme. In this case, the tools to create a full nuclear weapon aren't even that necessary, as a dirty bomb is itself extremely dangerous and can be made with only conventional explosives.


Then there's the threat of a nuclear arms race in the middle east, which is even scarier than Iran alone having one.
 
2012-10-12 11:20:25 AM

protectyourlimbs: /swiftboating


speaking of which...the GOP went after Kerry about his service, his purple heart, basically his honor.

Funny they don't have much to say about Mitt who dodged the draft in France. You can tell they really care about honor.
 
2012-10-12 11:21:24 AM

Fart_Machine: Carn: sprawl15: Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.

He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"

Ok. Also, I forgot that Biden did a much better job explaining his stance on abortion. Ryan finally admitted that they want legislation to outlaw it, which I haven't heard spoken out loud by them before.

It's bizarre he'd mention Romney's record as governor minutes before when he was pro-choice and then shift to Romney as being pro-life for his argument against abortion.


Can't blame Ryan much for his difficulty with this one. His position personally is ultra-right. Governor Romney's position was pro choice. Candidate Romney's position is ???
 
2012-10-12 11:22:30 AM

Carn: Then there's the threat of a nuclear arms race in the middle east, which is even scarier than Iran alone having one.


I really don't think they'd use nukes on eachother as long as Israel is around, and if they're nuking Israel we're already up shiat creek. I suppose it's possible that someone tries to nuke the Kurds, but I can't see that level of aggression against a non-state actor.
 
2012-10-12 11:23:29 AM

dittybopper: CNN commentator says that before the debate Biden and Ryan were "as nervous as a hooker in church"

That is a slanderous characterization. If I were a whore, I'd be offended at being associated with politicians.


This. Also someone has to give the sermon, so it might as well be the hookers at the pulpit.
 
2012-10-12 11:24:02 AM

Carn: Fart_Machine: Carn: sprawl15: Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.

He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"

Ok. Also, I forgot that Biden did a much better job explaining his stance on abortion. Ryan finally admitted that they want legislation to outlaw it, which I haven't heard spoken out loud by them before.

It's bizarre he'd mention Romney's record as governor minutes before when he was pro-choice and then shift to Romney as being pro-life for his argument against abortion.

Can't blame Ryan much for his difficulty with this one. His position personally is ultra-right. Governor Romney's position was pro choice. Candidate Romney's position is ???


cr4.globalspec.com

He would call that "evolving".
 
2012-10-12 11:24:39 AM

Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.

That's all you got? OK then.


I'm just finding your spinning on this hilarious. It's ok. Ryan came off as a guy who got shaken off his talking points by a guy who the GOP has blown off as a doddering gaff machine. You'll get over it.
 
2012-10-12 11:27:24 AM

Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.

That's all you got? OK then.

I'm just finding your spinning on this hilarious. It's ok. Ryan came off as a guy who got shaken off his talking points by a guy who the GOP has blown off as a doddering gaff machine. You'll get over it.


Just had a conversation with a co-worker about the Joe Biden "gaffe machine". She couldn't name one. It's just accepted dogma that this is who he is. Then I spouted off about 10 Romney gaffes and she said she had to go to a meeting (probably of the Klan).
 
2012-10-12 11:28:21 AM

I alone am best: Cletus C.: WaitWhatWhy: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

Pretty sure the reaction among undecided voters was 50% Biden, 31% Ryan, and 19% tie. So you might want to work on your imagining there, chief.

So, we're now to believe the instapolls? Even the CNN poll with its Ryan 48 percent, Biden 44 percent poll, a statistical tie within the 5 percentage point margin? Which, I learned earlier from farklibs means Ryan just as likely received 53 percent as he did 43 percent. Or something like that.

Face it, you all wanted so much for Joe to hand Ryan his lunch. He didn't but keep trying.

Joe won on substance. He lost on etiquette. Ryan didn't mess up horribly which is all I was hoping for. Biden came out swinging and ended up looking like a douche. I guess its better to look like a douche that won than look like a douche and lose.


But I'm sure you thought Romney looked Presidential amirite?
 
2012-10-12 11:28:55 AM

sprawl15: AngryPanda: Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them?

There's the direct threat of Iran using it on Israel - they really, really hate Israel because it's one of the few things that helps them not be hated by the rest of the Muslim world (they're not Arabs, and their Islam is the wrong Islam). The leadership is also crazy enough that they may try it if an opportunity flares up; say, a nearby country starts a shooting war with Israel.

Then there's the indirect threat of them using nuclear weapons as a terror tool; the suitcase nuke meme. In this case, the tools to create a full nuclear weapon aren't even that necessary, as a dirty bomb is itself extremely dangerous and can be made with only conventional explosives.


Those are the possible negative consequences, but having a nuclear weapon could also just mean that Iran can run its mouth all it wants without worrying about being invaded by western countries, like North Korea. The real value of nuclear weapons is defensive, and the moment you deploy one, they become useless defensively. As far as the terrorist angle that gets pushed, I'd be more concerned about Pakistan or missing Russian material than Iran. Pakistan was hiding bin Laden right next to the West Point, FFS.

An arms race could be a problem, but it could also force Israel to the table for talks on a nuclear-free Middle East, which would be the best outcome for all parties.
 
2012-10-12 11:29:57 AM

unexplained bacon: Carn: unexplained bacon:
It was painfully obvious after the first debate that our regular RWers on fark wouldn't touch the actual substance of the things Mitt was saying....

how is he going to pay for his proposed plan? deductions, isn't an answer, it's the start of an answer and they leave it right there. The RWers wouldn't get into that because they have nothing to say, because Mitt/Ryan haven't given any details. It's a plan to make a plan that's sold as an actual plan. BS

Mitt tried to pass off his proposal to go back to the old rule (that was killing people) in health ins. which is that you can't deny coverage for preexisting conditions to people who have maintained continuous coverage as being the same as the new rule under obamacare which solved a major problem for millions of Americans.

The fark RW didn't want to talk about those big lies at all, they actually know they're lies. They just don't care.


I thought both Biden and the moderator did a great job of sticking it to Ryan on the subject of deductions. Specifically, which would you cut to balance your tax cuts? "Well, uh, you know some, but not that one, that's a good one. No not that one either."

It seems a lot of people that identify with the RW "team" (seems to be how they reference and think of it), care only about ideology. They've painted this wonderful strawman which Ryan summed up nicely in his closing statement "big spending, big government, take your money to give to poors, socialist communist etc" and they hate it to death. They have become convinced of the evil of the strawman, and can't be bothered to actually look at the facts and positions presented by the other side. This is what scares me most about the current GOP/ reactionary conservative movement.
 
2012-10-12 11:30:48 AM

I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.


The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.
 
2012-10-12 11:32:35 AM

I alone am best: qorkfiend: I alone am best: You would think in a country that just went through a civil war with known active terrorist elements more security would be common sense.

You'd think that, but Republicans in Congress voted to cut funding for embassy security, so...

Funny they had money to waste everywhere else except on of the most dangerous places we have diplomats.



Like this?
 
2012-10-12 11:35:02 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: EyeballKid: Graffito: Uchiha_Cycliste: Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?

Romney is taller than Obama so he looked more presidential. That's all they needed to know.

Plus, he looked more, ahhhhh, how you say...um....well, you know.....he was just...uh....he looked a....ahh....he didn't.....you know, er.....he didn't um.....look so....um..."socialist?"

black exactly.


What did you say about Blah people?
 
2012-10-12 11:36:10 AM

Fart_Machine: I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.


Plus, the inadequate security issue went out the window when the Republicans publicly revealed that the place was a CIA black site. There's no telling what security was there that can't be disclosed or what rules there are about deploying troops to places the CIA is trying to keep off the radar.
 
2012-10-12 11:36:24 AM

Fart_Machine: The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.


The argument, I imagine, is that he could have allocated security budgets from other countries where we're at less of a risk (like Europe) to the Middle East. But, as I posted upthread, any sensible (at the time) change to security personnel wouldn't have changed a farking thing. They were attacked by dozens of guys with mortar support and inside information.
 
2012-10-12 11:38:47 AM

coeyagi: Carn: Fart_Machine: Carn: sprawl15: Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.

He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"

Ok. Also, I forgot that Biden did a much better job explaining his stance on abortion. Ryan finally admitted that they want legislation to outlaw it, which I haven't heard spoken out loud by them before.

It's bizarre he'd mention Romney's record as governor minutes before when he was pro-choice and then shift to Romney as being pro-life for his argument against abortion.

Can't blame Ryan much for his difficulty with this one. His position personally is ultra-right. Governor Romney's position was pro choice. Candidate Romney's position is ???

[cr4.globalspec.com image 400x269]

He would call that "evolving".


Can't blame a guy for pandering to his audience, can you?

"What's your position on X, Romney"
'Uh, what do you guys think?'
"blah blah blah"
'Wow you took the words right out of my mouth!'
 
2012-10-12 11:40:51 AM

Fart_Machine: I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.


They can't seem to understand that. WHar JORBS, Obama! WHAR!

Obama: I had a bill, you shot it down. Presumably because it helps the economy and in your minds, my re-election chances. I am just trying to do what I was elected to do.

GOP: But it's not your job to create jobs!

Obama: ---- What? You've been saying it is.

GOP: No, we're congress, here's our jobs bill!

Obama: This rapes the Earth... legitimately.

GOP: It's ok, the Earth can heal. Global Warming, just a passing thing.

Obama: You f*ckers are retarded, aren't you?

GOP: We're not retarded, we were just without oxygen for 7.2 minutes during child birth.
 
2012-10-12 11:44:23 AM

sprawl15: Fart_Machine: The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.

The argument, I imagine, is that he could have allocated security budgets from other countries where we're at less of a risk (like Europe) to the Middle East. But, as I posted upthread, any sensible (at the time) change to security personnel wouldn't have changed a farking thing. They were attacked by dozens of guys with mortar support and inside information.


True however I believe those budgets are pretty specific and would still have to be voted on which is why the whole electric cars for Vienna thing was a red herring.
 
2012-10-12 11:46:27 AM
 
2012-10-12 11:47:14 AM

Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.

That's all you got? OK then.

I'm just finding your spinning on this hilarious. It's ok. Ryan came off as a guy who got shaken off his talking points by a guy who the GOP has blown off as a doddering gaff machine. You'll get over it.


Yah, the spinning is incredible. It's like an alternate universe almost.
 
2012-10-12 11:48:50 AM

I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.


Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.
 
2012-10-12 11:54:31 AM

Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.



And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.
 
2012-10-12 11:57:02 AM

Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.

That's all you got? OK then.

I'm just finding your spinning on this hilarious. It's ok. Ryan came off as a guy who got shaken off his talking points by a guy who the GOP has blown off as a doddering gaff machine. You'll get over it.

Yah, the spinning is incredible. It's like an alternate universe almost.


You're surprised?
I was arguing with my parents last night about Ambassador Stevens. They had heard that he was tortured and sodomized. I searched Fox News, to see what they were talking about. Couldn't find an iota about it unless I googled it, and then only on blogs and other worthless sources.

I told them of this, and they refused to accept that they were wrong. I think we might need to write off their generation.
 
2012-10-12 11:58:55 AM

Lord_Baull: And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.


Yep. And Clinton's fault for 2 embassy attacks and the Cole, obviously.
 
2012-10-12 11:59:32 AM

Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.


I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.
 
2012-10-12 12:01:06 PM

Fart_Machine: I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.


I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.
 
2012-10-12 12:03:22 PM

I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.


We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?
 
2012-10-12 12:19:09 PM

I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.



So you agree that Bush was soft on terror?
 
2012-10-12 12:26:20 PM

Lord_Baull: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.


So you agree that Bush was soft on terror?


Besides Afghanistan I do, the occupation of Afghanistan should have been avoided though. I also think that Obama has done a decent job on it besides Libya.
 
2012-10-12 12:26:48 PM

I alone am best: I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.



Are you?
Impoundment of funds
 
2012-10-12 12:29:06 PM

unexplained bacon: protectyourlimbs: /swiftboating

speaking of which...the GOP went after Kerry about his service, his purple heart, basically his honor.

Funny they don't have much to say about Mitt who dodged the draft in France. You can tell they really care about honor.


They don't actually care about the pieces on the chess board, just what they can use those pieces to get...

/its the same sickening feeling I get watching fox news when they pretend to really care about Libya or fast and furious
 
2012-10-12 12:35:14 PM

FeedTheCollapse: RedT: [timethemoment.files.wordpress.com image 326x489]

I showed my husband the Time Mag Ryan workout pictorial and he commented "When I look at those picutres I imagine Ryan with a Shake-a-weight."

/And here I am outta brain-bleach.

I read that as "Time 'Meg Ryan'", but either way:

[i.imgur.com image 667x1000]


Thank you! This is wonderful!
 
2012-10-12 12:36:33 PM
I could not have foreseen such a horrible smack down on Ryan, even the moderator got a piece of him.
 
2012-10-12 12:37:13 PM

Lord_Baull: I alone am best: I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.


Are you?
Impoundment of funds


Did you read that before you posted?
 
2012-10-12 12:39:07 PM

Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.

We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?


The 9/11 commission was fake?
 
2012-10-12 12:40:08 PM

I alone am best: Lord_Baull: I alone am best: I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.


Are you?
Impoundment of funds

Did you read that before you posted?



the part where by law the President isn't allowed to redirect funds as directed by Congress?
 
2012-10-12 12:48:29 PM

Lord_Baull: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: I alone am best: I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.


Are you?
Impoundment of funds

Did you read that before you posted?


the part where by law the President isn't allowed to redirect funds as directed by Congress?


That has to do with withholding not redirecting. So if congress says you have to buy 2 aircraft carriers the president could prior to 1974 say, no i'm not going to do that.

Does the security budget specifically state what embassy/consulate gets in terms of funding?
 
2012-10-12 12:49:45 PM

I alone am best: Fart_Machine: I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.

I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.


So you believe the State Department is just given a pile of money and that votes on allocation are just for show then.
 
2012-10-12 12:51:48 PM

I alone am best: Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.

We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?

The 9/11 commission was fake?


I wasn't aware that the 9/11 commission was dealing with the 7 embassy attacks.
 
2012-10-12 12:53:39 PM

I alone am best: Lord_Baull: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: I alone am best: I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.


Are you?
Impoundment of funds

Did you read that before you posted?


the part where by law the President isn't allowed to redirect funds as directed by Congress?

That has to do with withholding not redirecting. So if congress says you have to buy 2 aircraft carriers the president could prior to 1974 say, no i'm not going to do that.

Does the security budget specifically state what embassy/consulate gets in terms of funding?


That would be why congress gets to vote on the security budget for specific embassy expenses.
 
2012-10-12 12:57:11 PM

I alone am best: Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.

We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?

The 9/11 commission was fake?


The WTC was a US embassy on foreign soil?
 
2012-10-12 01:07:13 PM

Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: I alone am best: I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.


Are you?
Impoundment of funds

Did you read that before you posted?


the part where by law the President isn't allowed to redirect funds as directed by Congress?

That has to do with withholding not redirecting. So if congress says you have to buy 2 aircraft carriers the president could prior to 1974 say, no i'm not going to do that.

Does the security budget specifically state what embassy/consulate gets in terms of funding?

That would be why congress gets to vote on the security budget for specific embassy expenses.


But not specific embassies. So redirecting funds from on embassy to another is acceptable as long as it isn't specifically designated for another purpose or expressly prohibited in the appropriation.

So if the budget calls for 70 million for furniture you cannot use that to build a new embassy but you could allocate the funding to the embassies as you see fit.
 
2012-10-12 01:16:56 PM

imontheinternet: I alone am best: Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.

We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?

The 9/11 commission was fake?

The WTC was a US embassy on foreign soil?


US embassies are, by definition, "on American soil".
 
2012-10-12 01:18:26 PM

Dr Dreidel: imontheinternet: I alone am best: Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.

We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?

The 9/11 commission was fake?

The WTC was a US embassy on foreign soil?

US embassies are, by definition, "on American soil".


Popular myth actually.
 
2012-10-12 01:34:13 PM

imontheinternet: I alone am best: Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.

We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?

The 9/11 commission was fake?

The WTC was a US embassy on foreign soil?


Both were terrorist attacks.
 
2012-10-12 01:39:57 PM

mrshowrules: Dr Dreidel: US embassies are, by definition, "on American soil".

Popular myth actually.


According to this, it looks like a distinction without a difference. (If I had instead said "within US jurisdiction", I'd be correct, and most people don't really differentiate those, outside legal people.)

// I'm calling both of us technically correct
 
2012-10-12 01:45:42 PM

Dr Dreidel: According to this, it looks like a distinction without a difference. (If I had instead said "within US jurisdiction", I'd be correct, and most people don't really differentiate those, outside legal people.)


Eh, it's kind of the difference between denying government entry without consent/a warrant and claiming an allodial title.
 
2012-10-12 02:06:51 PM

Dr Dreidel: mrshowrules: Dr Dreidel: US embassies are, by definition, "on American soil".

Popular myth actually.

According to this, it looks like a distinction without a difference. (If I had instead said "within US jurisdiction", I'd be correct, and most people don't really differentiate those, outside legal people.)

// I'm calling both of us technically correct


What you state has a degree of practical truth to it but seeing as you were using it to define something else (attack on US soil), you have taken that too far.

Only one of us is technically correct.

"Contrary to popular belief, diplomatic missions do not enjoy full extraterritorial status and are not sovereign territory of the represented state.[5][6] Rather, the premises of diplomatic missions remain under the jurisdiction of the host state while being afforded special privileges (such as immunity from most local laws) by the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations."
 
2012-10-12 02:11:57 PM

I alone am best: Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: I alone am best: I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.


Are you?
Impoundment of funds

Did you read that before you posted?


the part where by law the President isn't allowed to redirect funds as directed by Congress?

That has to do with withholding not redirecting. So if congress says you have to buy 2 aircraft carriers the president could prior to 1974 say, no i'm not going to do that.

Does the security budget specifically state what embassy/consulate gets in terms of funding?

That would be why congress gets to vote on the security budget for specific embassy expenses.

But not specific embassies. So redirecting funds from on embassy to another is acceptable as long as it isn't specifically designated for another purpose or expressly prohibited in the appropriation.

So if the budget calls for 70 million for furniture you cannot use that to build a new embassy but you could allocate the funding to the embassies as you see fit.


So then you admit that the budget for electric cars in Vienna comes from a different appropriation that security for Libya.

Incidentally the GOP has been pushing security cuts since 2011. Ryan wanted even more for 2013.
 
2012-10-12 02:16:17 PM

I alone am best: imontheinternet: I alone am best: Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.

We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?

The 9/11 commission was fake?

The WTC was a US embassy on foreign soil?

Both were terrorist attacks.


And apples and oranges can both be eaten.

The difference is Bush got a huge amount of bipartisan support following 9/11. Obama got blamed for the death of Stevens by the GOP even though they pushed for the security cuts.
 
2012-10-12 02:17:49 PM

President Raygun: Uchiha_Cycliste: EyeballKid: Graffito: Uchiha_Cycliste: Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?

Romney is taller than Obama so he looked more presidential. That's all they needed to know.

Plus, he looked more, ahhhhh, how you say...um....well, you know.....he was just...uh....he looked a....ahh....he didn't.....you know, er.....he didn't um.....look so....um..."socialist?"

black exactly.

What did you say about Blah people?


I think I said exactly.
 
2012-10-12 02:20:30 PM

mrshowrules: Dr Dreidel: mrshowrules: Dr Dreidel: US embassies are, by definition, "on American soil".

Popular myth actually.

According to this, it looks like a distinction without a difference. (If I had instead said "within US jurisdiction", I'd be correct, and most people don't really differentiate those, outside legal people.)

// I'm calling both of us technically correct

What you state has a degree of practical truth to it but seeing as you were using it to define something else (attack on US soil), you have taken that too far.

Only one of us is technically correct.

"Contrary to popular belief, diplomatic missions do not enjoy full extraterritorial status and are not sovereign territory of the represented state.[5][6] Rather, the premises of diplomatic missions remain under the jurisdiction of the host state while being afforded special privileges (such as immunity from most local laws) by the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations."


Take it. Whatever.

// but I did learn something, so that's a win for me
// nyah
 
2012-10-12 05:01:11 PM
It seems more likely that the pastor would be nervous when the hooker is in church.
 
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