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(Daily Mail)   CNN commentator says that before the debate Biden and Ryan were "as nervous as a hooker in church"   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 268
    More: Interesting, CNN, Biden, Paul Begala, Danville, Mayfair, Ann Curry  
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1395 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Oct 2012 at 8:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 11:03:39 AM

sprawl15: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.


Got it, unless they are personally involved then they have no accountability. He must not have known that country just had a civil war.
 
2012-10-12 11:04:08 AM
That expression doesn't make any sense. Jesus was cool with hookers.
 
2012-10-12 11:06:51 AM

coeyagi: Cletus C.: coeyagi: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

Only inbred hicks with hick names can't stand Joe. Everybody else who is not low-information: yeah, no problem with Joe.

Ironically, Old Joe comes across as that inbred hick. I thought that was what we were supposed to like about him.

Only for those who want to believe that so that it fits their narrative. It's ok, you obviously have no understanding of where Joe comes from or where h's lived. I do. I've lived in or visited all the places he's lived.


Eww. My condolences.
 
2012-10-12 11:08:54 AM

unexplained bacon: Carn: unexplained bacon: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

you may not like the attitude with which he repeatedly knocked down Ryan's BS talking points, but for me it was just fine as long as the BS Romney/Ryan are trying to sell gets called BS.

After Obama's debate where he politely moved on from Mitt's lies I was glad to see a spirited smack down.

All the RWers on fark were gloating all over the place after the first debate and yet I couldn't get one of you to address one of my favorite big Mitt lies of the night (his healthcare plan covers preexisting conditions). I could see quite clearly the best chance anyone will get to call a lie a lie is right there at the debate and Joe seemed to be aware of that. Good for him...a little less of the face making might have been better though.

You don't like your guys being called liars? Then they should stop lying.

But then they wouldn't have anything to say.

It was painfully obvious after the first debate that our regular RWers on fark wouldn't touch the actual substance of the things Mitt was saying....

how is he going to pay for his proposed plan? deductions, isn't an answer, it's the start of an answer and they leave it right there. The RWers wouldn't get into that because they have nothing to say, because Mitt/Ryan haven't given any details. It's a plan to make a plan that's sold as an actual plan. BS

Mitt tried to pass off his proposal to go back to the old rule (that was killing people) in health ins. which is that you can't deny coverage for preexisting conditions to people who have maintained continuous coverage as being the same as the new rule under obamacare which solved a major problem for millions of Americans.

The fark RW didn't want to talk about those big lies at all, bec ...


Well they know that anyone who knows the facts about the two parties has already made up their mind on how to vote, right now the republicans are just trying to get the undecided voters to pick them. With the elections so close and things so divided on platforms anyone who doesn't know who to pick yet would unlikely be the type to fact check, they are just trying to tell those people what they want to hear no matter if its true or not and hope something sticks until after the election...


/swiftboating
 
2012-10-12 11:09:27 AM

I alone am best: Got it, unless they are personally involved then they have no personal accountability.


Correct. That's how it works.

I alone am best: He must not have known that country just had a civil war.


Hey, look, you're being confused by your own hindsight.
 
2012-10-12 11:11:27 AM

Cletus C.: coeyagi: Cletus C.: coeyagi: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: He looked like a douche to you because he was making your guy look like a 12 year old at the adults' table on Thanksgiving.

And Old Joe was the drunk old uncle at that table. The guy the rest of the family can barely tolerate once a year.

Only inbred hicks with hick names can't stand Joe. Everybody else who is not low-information: yeah, no problem with Joe.

Ironically, Old Joe comes across as that inbred hick. I thought that was what we were supposed to like about him.

Only for those who want to believe that so that it fits their narrative. It's ok, you obviously have no understanding of where Joe comes from or where h's lived. I do. I've lived in or visited all the places he's lived.

Eww. My condolences.


With few exceptions, I gather living anywhere above the Mason Dixon line is better than not. So yeah, it's fine.
 
2012-10-12 11:12:24 AM

NeoCortex42: sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.

It's the same exact argument that Bibi has used every time I've seen him interviewed: "Iran is four years closer than they were four years ago."

Yet somehow they're always six months away from a complete bomb.


Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them? For us? In my mind, Iran gets a nuke and maybe makes veiled threats to use it or something. What happens then? The entire developed world comes down on them militarily and they either burn their nukes in the ensuing war or get nuked themselves.

I'm not really up on foreign stuff, so someone explain to me a scenario where Iran getting a nuclear strike capability plays out favorably for them.
 
2012-10-12 11:13:12 AM
hello joe!
 
2012-10-12 11:15:46 AM

AngryPanda: Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them?


There's the direct threat of Iran using it on Israel - they really, really hate Israel because it's one of the few things that helps them not be hated by the rest of the Muslim world (they're not Arabs, and their Islam is the wrong Islam). The leadership is also crazy enough that they may try it if an opportunity flares up; say, a nearby country starts a shooting war with Israel.

Then there's the indirect threat of them using nuclear weapons as a terror tool; the suitcase nuke meme. In this case, the tools to create a full nuclear weapon aren't even that necessary, as a dirty bomb is itself extremely dangerous and can be made with only conventional explosives.
 
2012-10-12 11:15:50 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: So when they make an HBO movie about this election, Ryan will be played by Adam Sandler?


Because Jim Varney is dead.
 
2012-10-12 11:16:49 AM

AngryPanda: NeoCortex42: sprawl15: Headso: sprawl15: I think the most telling part of the debate was how Ryan fled from any given talking point as soon as it was disputed.

From what I heard on the radio afterword the most telling part of the debate was that Ryan was lying about the Iranian nuclear threat they are going to lie us into another war if they get elected.

That was weird. There was a very odd discussion between the two; it started off relatively sane where Ryan was arguing that Iran has progressed towards a bomb and Biden was arguing that Iran is more isolated than they've ever been. Then it got weird, when Biden started going down a rabbit hole where he started off saying that there are certain things they need in addition to fissile material to make a bomb (which is true) but ended up sounding like if Iran had fissile material it wouldn't matter unless they had those bomb parts. Instead of Ryan pressing, though, he fell back on the argument of "Iran is four years closer to a bomb than they were four years ago". OK, time flows normally in Iran. Thanks, Ryan.

It's the same exact argument that Bibi has used every time I've seen him interviewed: "Iran is four years closer than they were four years ago."

Yet somehow they're always six months away from a complete bomb.

Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them? For us? In my mind, Iran gets a nuke and maybe makes veiled threats to use it or something. What happens then? The entire developed world comes down on them militarily and they either burn their nukes in the ensuing war or get nuked themselves.

I'm not really up on foreign stuff, so someone explain to me a scenario where Iran getting a nuclear strike capability plays out favorably for them.


Well, I tell you what won't happen: A unilateral strike from Iran. They know the Israeli's have their own nukes and would glass their entire country in retaliation. They are also aware that the US has extended its missile shield over its various Allies in the Middle-East as well. Using one is a no win situation.

The potential for danger from an Iranian nuclear weapon comes from the resulting arms race it would spark in the other nations around the mid-east. Iran is primarily a different religious make up than most of the rest of the mid east, definitely the gulf states. They don't get along because of this. The Logic, is that if Iran gets a nuke, then Saudi Arabia and other gulf states will want to obtain one as well.
 
2012-10-12 11:17:31 AM

Cletus C.: WaitWhatWhy: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

Pretty sure the reaction among undecided voters was 50% Biden, 31% Ryan, and 19% tie. So you might want to work on your imagining there, chief.

So, we're now to believe the instapolls? Even the CNN poll with its Ryan 48 percent, Biden 44 percent poll, a statistical tie within the 5 percentage point margin? Which, I learned earlier from farklibs means Ryan just as likely received 53 percent as he did 43 percent. Or something like that.

Face it, you all wanted so much for Joe to hand Ryan his lunch. He didn't but keep trying.


Honestly, I early voted for Jill Stein, so I could really not care less. However, the CNN poll was all watchers, while the one I linked was undecideds, which was what you were talking about. As more polls come out, we'll get a better idea, but I'm working with what I could find at the moment. So the debate was a tie when you factor in voters who are "deep in that trench", but when you look at the impact on undecideds it seems like Joe won, given what we know now. Don't know that I can make it any simpler for you.

/TL:DR: Got bored, fed troll.
 
2012-10-12 11:18:13 AM
Ryan states the problem with troop withdrawl is, as troops leave Afghanistan, the troops still there are less safe.
What plan do Republicans have that makes troops safer than having all them back in their homes by 2014?


So, no answers from resident FARK conservatives?

Not surprised.
 
2012-10-12 11:18:22 AM

Carn: sprawl15: Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.

He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"

Ok. Also, I forgot that Biden did a much better job explaining his stance on abortion. Ryan finally admitted that they want legislation to outlaw it, which I haven't heard spoken out loud by them before.


It's bizarre he'd mention Romney's record as governor minutes before when he was pro-choice and then shift to Romney as being pro-life for his argument against abortion.
 
2012-10-12 11:18:33 AM

sprawl15: AngryPanda: Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them?

There's the direct threat of Iran using it on Israel - they really, really hate Israel because it's one of the few things that helps them not be hated by the rest of the Muslim world (they're not Arabs, and their Islam is the wrong Islam). The leadership is also crazy enough that they may try it if an opportunity flares up; say, a nearby country starts a shooting war with Israel.

Then there's the indirect threat of them using nuclear weapons as a terror tool; the suitcase nuke meme. In this case, the tools to create a full nuclear weapon aren't even that necessary, as a dirty bomb is itself extremely dangerous and can be made with only conventional explosives.


Then there's the threat of a nuclear arms race in the middle east, which is even scarier than Iran alone having one.
 
2012-10-12 11:20:25 AM

protectyourlimbs: /swiftboating


speaking of which...the GOP went after Kerry about his service, his purple heart, basically his honor.

Funny they don't have much to say about Mitt who dodged the draft in France. You can tell they really care about honor.
 
2012-10-12 11:21:24 AM

Fart_Machine: Carn: sprawl15: Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.

He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"

Ok. Also, I forgot that Biden did a much better job explaining his stance on abortion. Ryan finally admitted that they want legislation to outlaw it, which I haven't heard spoken out loud by them before.

It's bizarre he'd mention Romney's record as governor minutes before when he was pro-choice and then shift to Romney as being pro-life for his argument against abortion.


Can't blame Ryan much for his difficulty with this one. His position personally is ultra-right. Governor Romney's position was pro choice. Candidate Romney's position is ???
 
2012-10-12 11:22:30 AM

Carn: Then there's the threat of a nuclear arms race in the middle east, which is even scarier than Iran alone having one.


I really don't think they'd use nukes on eachother as long as Israel is around, and if they're nuking Israel we're already up shiat creek. I suppose it's possible that someone tries to nuke the Kurds, but I can't see that level of aggression against a non-state actor.
 
2012-10-12 11:23:29 AM

dittybopper: CNN commentator says that before the debate Biden and Ryan were "as nervous as a hooker in church"

That is a slanderous characterization. If I were a whore, I'd be offended at being associated with politicians.


This. Also someone has to give the sermon, so it might as well be the hookers at the pulpit.
 
2012-10-12 11:24:02 AM

Carn: Fart_Machine: Carn: sprawl15: Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.

He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"

Ok. Also, I forgot that Biden did a much better job explaining his stance on abortion. Ryan finally admitted that they want legislation to outlaw it, which I haven't heard spoken out loud by them before.

It's bizarre he'd mention Romney's record as governor minutes before when he was pro-choice and then shift to Romney as being pro-life for his argument against abortion.

Can't blame Ryan much for his difficulty with this one. His position personally is ultra-right. Governor Romney's position was pro choice. Candidate Romney's position is ???


cr4.globalspec.com

He would call that "evolving".
 
2012-10-12 11:24:39 AM

Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.

That's all you got? OK then.


I'm just finding your spinning on this hilarious. It's ok. Ryan came off as a guy who got shaken off his talking points by a guy who the GOP has blown off as a doddering gaff machine. You'll get over it.
 
2012-10-12 11:27:24 AM

Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.

That's all you got? OK then.

I'm just finding your spinning on this hilarious. It's ok. Ryan came off as a guy who got shaken off his talking points by a guy who the GOP has blown off as a doddering gaff machine. You'll get over it.


Just had a conversation with a co-worker about the Joe Biden "gaffe machine". She couldn't name one. It's just accepted dogma that this is who he is. Then I spouted off about 10 Romney gaffes and she said she had to go to a meeting (probably of the Klan).
 
2012-10-12 11:28:21 AM

I alone am best: Cletus C.: WaitWhatWhy: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

Pretty sure the reaction among undecided voters was 50% Biden, 31% Ryan, and 19% tie. So you might want to work on your imagining there, chief.

So, we're now to believe the instapolls? Even the CNN poll with its Ryan 48 percent, Biden 44 percent poll, a statistical tie within the 5 percentage point margin? Which, I learned earlier from farklibs means Ryan just as likely received 53 percent as he did 43 percent. Or something like that.

Face it, you all wanted so much for Joe to hand Ryan his lunch. He didn't but keep trying.

Joe won on substance. He lost on etiquette. Ryan didn't mess up horribly which is all I was hoping for. Biden came out swinging and ended up looking like a douche. I guess its better to look like a douche that won than look like a douche and lose.


But I'm sure you thought Romney looked Presidential amirite?
 
2012-10-12 11:28:55 AM

sprawl15: AngryPanda: Can someone (not trolling, just uninformed) explain to me what Iran getting a nuke would do for them?

There's the direct threat of Iran using it on Israel - they really, really hate Israel because it's one of the few things that helps them not be hated by the rest of the Muslim world (they're not Arabs, and their Islam is the wrong Islam). The leadership is also crazy enough that they may try it if an opportunity flares up; say, a nearby country starts a shooting war with Israel.

Then there's the indirect threat of them using nuclear weapons as a terror tool; the suitcase nuke meme. In this case, the tools to create a full nuclear weapon aren't even that necessary, as a dirty bomb is itself extremely dangerous and can be made with only conventional explosives.


Those are the possible negative consequences, but having a nuclear weapon could also just mean that Iran can run its mouth all it wants without worrying about being invaded by western countries, like North Korea. The real value of nuclear weapons is defensive, and the moment you deploy one, they become useless defensively. As far as the terrorist angle that gets pushed, I'd be more concerned about Pakistan or missing Russian material than Iran. Pakistan was hiding bin Laden right next to the West Point, FFS.

An arms race could be a problem, but it could also force Israel to the table for talks on a nuclear-free Middle East, which would be the best outcome for all parties.
 
2012-10-12 11:29:57 AM

unexplained bacon: Carn: unexplained bacon:
It was painfully obvious after the first debate that our regular RWers on fark wouldn't touch the actual substance of the things Mitt was saying....

how is he going to pay for his proposed plan? deductions, isn't an answer, it's the start of an answer and they leave it right there. The RWers wouldn't get into that because they have nothing to say, because Mitt/Ryan haven't given any details. It's a plan to make a plan that's sold as an actual plan. BS

Mitt tried to pass off his proposal to go back to the old rule (that was killing people) in health ins. which is that you can't deny coverage for preexisting conditions to people who have maintained continuous coverage as being the same as the new rule under obamacare which solved a major problem for millions of Americans.

The fark RW didn't want to talk about those big lies at all, they actually know they're lies. They just don't care.


I thought both Biden and the moderator did a great job of sticking it to Ryan on the subject of deductions. Specifically, which would you cut to balance your tax cuts? "Well, uh, you know some, but not that one, that's a good one. No not that one either."

It seems a lot of people that identify with the RW "team" (seems to be how they reference and think of it), care only about ideology. They've painted this wonderful strawman which Ryan summed up nicely in his closing statement "big spending, big government, take your money to give to poors, socialist communist etc" and they hate it to death. They have become convinced of the evil of the strawman, and can't be bothered to actually look at the facts and positions presented by the other side. This is what scares me most about the current GOP/ reactionary conservative movement.
 
2012-10-12 11:30:48 AM

I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.


The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.
 
2012-10-12 11:32:35 AM

I alone am best: qorkfiend: I alone am best: You would think in a country that just went through a civil war with known active terrorist elements more security would be common sense.

You'd think that, but Republicans in Congress voted to cut funding for embassy security, so...

Funny they had money to waste everywhere else except on of the most dangerous places we have diplomats.



Like this?
 
2012-10-12 11:35:02 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: EyeballKid: Graffito: Uchiha_Cycliste: Likewise, are they too stupid to recognize Romney and Ryan's lies for what they are? Or do they simply not care?

Romney is taller than Obama so he looked more presidential. That's all they needed to know.

Plus, he looked more, ahhhhh, how you say...um....well, you know.....he was just...uh....he looked a....ahh....he didn't.....you know, er.....he didn't um.....look so....um..."socialist?"

black exactly.


What did you say about Blah people?
 
2012-10-12 11:36:10 AM

Fart_Machine: I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.


Plus, the inadequate security issue went out the window when the Republicans publicly revealed that the place was a CIA black site. There's no telling what security was there that can't be disclosed or what rules there are about deploying troops to places the CIA is trying to keep off the radar.
 
2012-10-12 11:36:24 AM

Fart_Machine: The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.


The argument, I imagine, is that he could have allocated security budgets from other countries where we're at less of a risk (like Europe) to the Middle East. But, as I posted upthread, any sensible (at the time) change to security personnel wouldn't have changed a farking thing. They were attacked by dozens of guys with mortar support and inside information.
 
2012-10-12 11:38:47 AM

coeyagi: Carn: Fart_Machine: Carn: sprawl15: Carn: I thought Ryan came off as really wormy. He admitted that Romney's campaign effectively agrees with Obama administrations policies for Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, and he lost points on medicare, SS, and taxes. You can give him a point for Libya if it makes you feel better.

He doesn't even get a point on Libya. His main complaint about Obama's handling was that there was an ignored report that requested more embassy security. When Biden pointed out that said report never made it to the White House and that Ryan's own plan cut significant amounts of embassy security, Ryan rolled over and went back to "We are witnessing the crumbling of the Obama foreign policy!"

Ok. Also, I forgot that Biden did a much better job explaining his stance on abortion. Ryan finally admitted that they want legislation to outlaw it, which I haven't heard spoken out loud by them before.

It's bizarre he'd mention Romney's record as governor minutes before when he was pro-choice and then shift to Romney as being pro-life for his argument against abortion.

Can't blame Ryan much for his difficulty with this one. His position personally is ultra-right. Governor Romney's position was pro choice. Candidate Romney's position is ???

[cr4.globalspec.com image 400x269]

He would call that "evolving".


Can't blame a guy for pandering to his audience, can you?

"What's your position on X, Romney"
'Uh, what do you guys think?'
"blah blah blah"
'Wow you took the words right out of my mouth!'
 
2012-10-12 11:40:51 AM

Fart_Machine: I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.


They can't seem to understand that. WHar JORBS, Obama! WHAR!

Obama: I had a bill, you shot it down. Presumably because it helps the economy and in your minds, my re-election chances. I am just trying to do what I was elected to do.

GOP: But it's not your job to create jobs!

Obama: ---- What? You've been saying it is.

GOP: No, we're congress, here's our jobs bill!

Obama: This rapes the Earth... legitimately.

GOP: It's ok, the Earth can heal. Global Warming, just a passing thing.

Obama: You f*ckers are retarded, aren't you?

GOP: We're not retarded, we were just without oxygen for 7.2 minutes during child birth.
 
2012-10-12 11:44:23 AM

sprawl15: Fart_Machine: The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.

The argument, I imagine, is that he could have allocated security budgets from other countries where we're at less of a risk (like Europe) to the Middle East. But, as I posted upthread, any sensible (at the time) change to security personnel wouldn't have changed a farking thing. They were attacked by dozens of guys with mortar support and inside information.


True however I believe those budgets are pretty specific and would still have to be voted on which is why the whole electric cars for Vienna thing was a red herring.
 
2012-10-12 11:46:27 AM
 
2012-10-12 11:47:14 AM

Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.

That's all you got? OK then.

I'm just finding your spinning on this hilarious. It's ok. Ryan came off as a guy who got shaken off his talking points by a guy who the GOP has blown off as a doddering gaff machine. You'll get over it.


Yah, the spinning is incredible. It's like an alternate universe almost.
 
2012-10-12 11:48:50 AM

I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.


Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.
 
2012-10-12 11:54:31 AM

Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.



And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.
 
2012-10-12 11:57:02 AM

Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: Fart_Machine: Cletus C.: CPennypacker: Why can't conservatives admit defeat? When our guy loses, we admit it. We complain and whine. We try to rationalize the reason he lost. We try to find the silver lining in his performance. We may even be mad at the moderator for not doing his job (i disagree). But we admit he lost.

Suck it up. Ryan got his ass handed to him. You don't get a tie just because your opponent made faces at your BS.

I can understand how you might think Biden won. You needed it desperately.

But for the small percentage of voters out there who actually aren't deep in that trench or the other it's hard to imagine them coming to the conclusion they liked the angry old man better.

That's a pretty big projector you've got there.

That's all you got? OK then.

I'm just finding your spinning on this hilarious. It's ok. Ryan came off as a guy who got shaken off his talking points by a guy who the GOP has blown off as a doddering gaff machine. You'll get over it.

Yah, the spinning is incredible. It's like an alternate universe almost.


You're surprised?
I was arguing with my parents last night about Ambassador Stevens. They had heard that he was tortured and sodomized. I searched Fox News, to see what they were talking about. Couldn't find an iota about it unless I googled it, and then only on blogs and other worthless sources.

I told them of this, and they refused to accept that they were wrong. I think we might need to write off their generation.
 
2012-10-12 11:58:55 AM

Lord_Baull: And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.


Yep. And Clinton's fault for 2 embassy attacks and the Cole, obviously.
 
2012-10-12 11:59:32 AM

Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.


I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.
 
2012-10-12 12:01:06 PM

Fart_Machine: I alone am best: sprawl15: I alone am best: 2-3 levels above the embassy is still the state department which is part of the administration.

So what?

The claim wasn't that some middle management bureaucrat turned down the request for extra security, it was that Biafra Jellobama personally turned it down. You're asserting a level of concern that makes it a personal failing for Obama if some FBI agent beats his wife and his boss doesn't report it.

No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

The President isn't a dictator who can pull from other budgets if Congress votes it down which is what happened with their security budget.


I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.
 
2012-10-12 12:03:22 PM

I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.


We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?
 
2012-10-12 12:19:09 PM

I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.



So you agree that Bush was soft on terror?
 
2012-10-12 12:26:20 PM

Lord_Baull: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.


So you agree that Bush was soft on terror?


Besides Afghanistan I do, the occupation of Afghanistan should have been avoided though. I also think that Obama has done a decent job on it besides Libya.
 
2012-10-12 12:26:48 PM

I alone am best: I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.



Are you?
Impoundment of funds
 
2012-10-12 12:29:06 PM

unexplained bacon: protectyourlimbs: /swiftboating

speaking of which...the GOP went after Kerry about his service, his purple heart, basically his honor.

Funny they don't have much to say about Mitt who dodged the draft in France. You can tell they really care about honor.


They don't actually care about the pieces on the chess board, just what they can use those pieces to get...

/its the same sickening feeling I get watching fox news when they pretend to really care about Libya or fast and furious
 
2012-10-12 12:35:14 PM

FeedTheCollapse: RedT: [timethemoment.files.wordpress.com image 326x489]

I showed my husband the Time Mag Ryan workout pictorial and he commented "When I look at those picutres I imagine Ryan with a Shake-a-weight."

/And here I am outta brain-bleach.

I read that as "Time 'Meg Ryan'", but either way:

[i.imgur.com image 667x1000]


Thank you! This is wonderful!
 
2012-10-12 12:36:33 PM
I could not have foreseen such a horrible smack down on Ryan, even the moderator got a piece of him.
 
2012-10-12 12:37:13 PM

Lord_Baull: I alone am best: I think you're mistaken on how budget funds are allocated.


Are you?
Impoundment of funds


Did you read that before you posted?
 
2012-10-12 12:39:07 PM

Fart_Machine: I alone am best: Lord_Baull: Satanic_Hamster: I alone am best: No it was that the administration turned it down. Obama is the boss, that fall on him that his employee's borked it up. That's why they call it the Obama administration.

Right, so it's Reagan's fault the Marine Corps barracks was bombed, it was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, and Obama gets to take credit for killing Bin Laden.


And the 7 embassy attacks during the Bush years made him soft on terror.

I specifically remember liberals claiming it was his fault. That changed though when Obama was elected.

We had congressional hearings on the seven embassy attacks when Bush was President?


The 9/11 commission was fake?
 
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