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(Salon)   An American Alcoholic in Paris: When I moved to France, my inner drunk came along for the ride   (salon.com) divider line 57
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5743 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Oct 2012 at 5:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-12 12:10:14 AM
Was there a point to that article?
 
2012-10-12 12:26:44 AM

fusillade762: Was there a point to that article?


I think it was to say that France encourages drinking too much or something. I couldn't be for sure because the "continue reading" link wasn't working.

Yes, the locals encourage you to partake in drink and it is hard to resist (they do the same with just about everything else in a pub or restaurant - dessert, coffee...). When I am on business trips there is usually one night were a have one too many (but I rarely overdo it) but I never had that problem in Paris myself. Buzzed, sure. Sloppy drunk, not at all...and this is coming from a two G&T a week-evening guy. And it's even extra tempting over there as you are a metro/bus and short walk from just about anywhere.
 
2012-10-12 03:05:40 AM
I'd rather be an American werewolf in London.
 
2012-10-12 03:45:04 AM

Ed Finnerty: I'd rather be an American werewolf in London.


I'd rather have a last tango in Paris.

/pass the butter
 
2012-10-12 05:53:30 AM

fusillade762: Was there a point to that article?


Yup. Rosé is shiat, avoid it.

Also, drink, tourists, it's good for our economy.

DRINK I SAID!
 
2012-10-12 05:55:33 AM

fusillade762: Was there a point to that article?


That, when you are an alcoholic, you always try to put a fantasy slant on your drinking, but at the end of the day, you are just a pathetic drunk looking for an excuse to get schlossed.
 
2012-10-12 05:59:45 AM
That was endearing and well written, but she really projected some issues on the chick at the cafe.

I also feel saddened to see the obvious influence of AA dogma.
 
2012-10-12 06:05:11 AM

fusillade762: Was there a point to that article?


Alcholic Salon writer proud of staying sober in the face of temptation. Basically blogging, with the name of a large company on the letterhead.
 
2012-10-12 06:08:10 AM
Wait...are you telling me it's not normal to drink a bottle of wine and then another? I do that shiat all the time. Like once or twice a month when I'm having friends over for dinner, games and conversation.

BTW, WTF was that article about? If that's how you write when sober, perhaps a graduate degree is not for you.
 
2012-10-12 06:10:42 AM
Funny how she kept repeating "Rosé" over and over. Kind of like how a dry alky only whispers the word whiskey..... in hushed tones.....magical.
 
2012-10-12 06:11:23 AM
I think the point was "marry someone who will support you" since that's obviously what she's doing... Christ that's some bad writing for someone who doesn't fancy themself a writer and I fancy that she does fancy herself a writer.
 
2012-10-12 06:15:05 AM

padraig: fusillade762: Was there a point to that article?

That, when you are an alcoholic, you always try to put a fantasy slant on your drinking, but at the end of the day, you are just a pathetic drunk looking for an excuse to get schlossed.


You say that like it's a bad thing.
 
2012-10-12 06:29:43 AM
Her blog sucks.
 
2012-10-12 06:35:11 AM
I also feel saddened to see the obvious influence of AA dogma.

If THAT isn't the ultimate indicator of denial, I don't know what is. You obviously haven't hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting...
 
2012-10-12 06:43:29 AM

bump: I also feel saddened to see the obvious influence of AA dogma.

If THAT isn't the ultimate indicator of denial, I don't know what is. You obviously haven't hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting...


bump: I also feel saddened to see the obvious influence of AA dogma.

If THAT isn't the ultimate indicator of denial, I don't know what is. You obviously haven't hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting...


Or just shake it off and ease up on the bottle for a month or two. I always figured if people don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain, let them stay wet. I usually only have two / three drinks, but if I'm in the mood to go long, fark it. Life is short! I don't know why people beat them selves up for who they are.
 
2012-10-12 06:44:04 AM
I need a new mouse.
 
2012-10-12 06:53:48 AM
Move to Amsterdam.
 
2012-10-12 06:57:08 AM
Rick Romero reports: American journalists say stupid shiat they think is profound when they cross the atlantic because suddenly they feel informed and special.
 
2012-10-12 07:16:26 AM

Ebbelwoi: Funny how she kept repeating "Rosé" over and over. Kind of like how a dry alky only whispers the word whiskey..... in hushed tones.....magical.


Rosé is the wine for people who don't like wine.
 
2012-10-12 07:16:47 AM

H31N0US: I need a new mouse.


wotthefark: Move to Amsterdam.


I think I'll wait a bit before I get so blitzed that these two statements make sense together.
 
2012-10-12 07:19:42 AM
Move to Amsterdam.

What you're suggesting is that one drug is able to be replaced with another drug. This is the lie of addiction. If you are to not end up in an institution, jail or die, you MUST not indulge in ANY substance that may have any drug like reaction... this includes caffeine, chocolate, "low/no alcohol O'Doules", etc.

Now we'll be right back to pontificate after my smoke-break...
 
2012-10-12 07:32:05 AM
from TFA:
" not a cool French woman sipping Rosé at a Parisian café but a scared and lost American girl, trying to take on the look of a people far more cultured and cool."

well, I for one, am alway delighted when someone come to realize the superiority of the French Race

no, seriously, if you still worry about being "cool" at age 35, you might be imature.
Dont see the point of the article either.
 
2012-10-12 07:40:26 AM
Having just returned from holiday in Paris, I am getting a kick....

/not an alcoholic, though
//there but for the Grace of God
 
2012-10-12 07:40:27 AM

padraig: fusillade762: Was there a point to that article?

That, when you are an alcoholic, you always try to put a fantasy slant on your drinking, but at the end of the day, you are just a pathetic drunk looking for an excuse to get schlossed.


Alchoholics don't need an excuse.
 
2012-10-12 07:41:27 AM
I think I need a drink after reading that. So does the author
 
2012-10-12 07:46:25 AM

bump: Move to Amsterdam.

What you're suggesting is that one drug is able to be replaced with another drug. This is the lie of addiction. If you are to not end up in an institution, jail or die, you MUST not indulge in ANY substance that may have any drug like reaction... this includes caffeine, chocolate, "low/no alcohol O'Doules", etc.

Now we'll be right back to pontificate after my smoke-break...


i dont really understand this mentality personally.

i can picture that certain folks just have a compulsive personality and will automatically abuse anything they come into contact with. but i wouldnt think that was most people.

for example, i know a LOT of peopel who "drink too much" who would never touch anything other than alcohol. if you suddenly told them they couldnnt drink but could smoke weed, i doubt any of them would pick it up. myself included.

if i had to give up drinking beer i guess id just be sober and boring, id not immediately think i have to find something else
 
2012-10-12 07:54:14 AM

padraig: That, when you are an alcoholic, you always try to put a fantasy slant on your drinking, but at the end of the day, you are just a pathetic drunk looking for an excuse to get schlossed.


And she resisted the temptation. She recognized that it was fantasy and it would ruin her. Of course, she'll have to remind herself every day that it's fantasy.

Good for her. I've known too many alcoholics in my life...and only one that found sobriety (5 years now).
 
2012-10-12 08:02:53 AM

Cheese eating surrender monkey: fusillade762: Was there a point to that article?

Yup. Rosé is shiat, avoid it.


That's a broad generalization, like any other type of wine, it has its bad and its good.


Also, drink, tourists, it's good for our economy.

DRINK I SAID!


You heard the man.
Slackers.
 
2012-10-12 08:07:07 AM

slayer199: padraig: That, when you are an alcoholic, you always try to put a fantasy slant on your drinking, but at the end of the day, you are just a pathetic drunk looking for an excuse to get schlossed.

And she resisted the temptation. She recognized that it was fantasy and it would ruin her. Of course, she'll have to remind herself every day that it's fantasy.


And good for her, really. I lost a few members of my family to alcoholism. Almost lost my dad. Also, that's an illustration that, once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. She's just in remission, and has to remind herself that every time.
 
2012-10-12 08:07:23 AM
Went on a vacation almost a year ago and in a blackout went to rehab with a friend who was himself going to avoid jail. I went as a joke and still attend AA several times a week. I'm twenty six and was drinking a pint and a half a day every night by myself. I had a good job, a nice apartment on the north side of Chicago and no criminal history to speak of. Some of the people in the meeting take it too far for sure, but I am thank full AA exists. I had lost my mind and being around people with similar expirence does help. This lady need to chill out though. She has five or six years sober. When and if I have that long sober I will kill myself if I am that much of a pussy about life. Also, I've never gotten a sponsor or read bone page out of the big book.
 
2012-10-12 08:23:44 AM
It's 8:30am and now I'm thirsty.
 
2012-10-12 08:30:18 AM

Father_Jack: if you suddenly told them they couldnnt drink but could smoke weed, i doubt any of them would pick it up. myself included.


yep.
at the time of the prohibition, you could still get cocaine or heroin legaly, and pure, so almost safe, as prescription drugs.
But we didn't see a big increase of consuption of those.
 
2012-10-12 08:33:48 AM

bump: I also feel saddened to see the obvious influence of AA dogma.
If THAT isn't the ultimate indicator of denial, I don't know what is. You obviously haven't hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting or hit rock bottom, gotten into treatment, done your 90 in 90, worked your steps, called your sponsor, read your Big Book nor gone to a meeting...


I'm alive today partly because of AA. I did about 10% of those things. I've always found that the people who know the most about AA are those who've never been., or who are not alcoholics. If you aren't, (and saying 'I used to drink soooo much, and then I just quit, because I have willpower, you farking pussies!' doesn't count) then you forfeit any right to say how AA works or does not work.

There's a lot of drunks out there who are sober and living normal lives today in part thanks to AA. We actually went to meetings and changed our lives, instead of just whining about how mean AA was to us. You don't know shiat, and seriously, dude--I wouldn't take any advice from you on a dare. You're about the bitterest person on Fark.

I guess people like you would rather drunks die of it than have to hear the word "God." But that sounds about right--why would you want happiness for anyone else, if they can get there by doing something that you don't approve of?  Even if it has absolutely no impact on your own life.
 
2012-10-12 08:38:58 AM

cryinoutloud: There's a lot of drunks out there who are sober and living normal lives today in part thanks to AA.


it's like my tinfoil-hat.
It has kept me safe from alien abduction for so many years, but sad bitter people keep laughing at me.

double-blind-studies, how do they work?
 
2012-10-12 08:39:54 AM

Ebbelwoi: Funny how she kept repeating "Rosé" over and over. Kind of like how a dry alky only whispers the word whiskey..... in hushed tones.....magical.


Now, Apu, Mrs. Simpson claims that she *forgot* that bottle of... delicious... bourbon. Brownest of the brown liquors... so tempting. What's that? You want me to drink you? But I'm in the middle of a trial! Excuse me.
 
2012-10-12 08:42:02 AM
What a narcissistic piece of BS writing.

The author plays this holier than thou game judging others through her little 12 step world as if she knows everything about the other woman in the café based on a single meeting. That the author - because she had a drinking problem - can project her issue onto another person because, for a very short period of time on a particular morning, another person happened to be doing something that sort of resembled her own destructive behavior. Then she goes to far as to imply that this person who she had this single chance meeting with would end up on a stoop, "drinking a bottle alone" just like she did when she was pissing her life away.

Sorry chickee-doodle-drunkard, you don't get to make those judgments just because you had a habit of downing MD20/20 at 8am followed by a joint. Get off your high horse.

The problem you have is yours and not one to envision others having just because you went through it. You have no idea about this person other than one single instance in a chance meeting. That you are so self-absorbed to think that just because this single event is akin to your pathetic choices is presumptuous to say the least.

The author needs to go live her life and let others live theirs. This elevation of one's ego to be so arrogant as to think she can sum up the quality of another person's existence from a few words at café is typical for holier than thou steppers. Given a few more inches of screen space, I am sure the various platitudes and alliterative AA quips and slogans would have started flowing as if that is some ex-drunkard merit badge.

No where do I know in the world is there an organization that confers upon now sober drunks the right to judge others. Steppers would like to think that it does, but that is part of the delusion and narcissism of being a "sober American". It's the new Ugly American, just without the bottle.

/sober for many years because I needed to
/which was 11 steps less than steppers like to pontificate about
/I almost always keep it to myself save for when I see BS articles like this
/sorry for the wall-o-text
 
2012-10-12 08:50:52 AM
A wine drunk?

That's so Tyrion Lannister!
 
2012-10-12 08:56:46 AM

Scruggy: A wine drunk?

That's so Tyrion Lannister!


a MULLED-wine drunk, my good sir.
 
2012-10-12 08:58:40 AM
I learned that only Americans in Paris ever get tipsy or drunk and that only Americans can't handle wine. I didn't know that pile of crap before reading this.

People get drunk everywhere. Though they may look stylish, be in a big city and speak French.
 
2012-10-12 09:07:10 AM
This Christmas: Julia Roberts in Drink, Puke, Pass out. When an aging woman with a spiritual crisis on a soul searching mission goes on a pub crawl across Europe, you will tag along and laugh, and get absolutely Shiat-faced drunk in this feel good chick flick of the year.

I loved it. It was dizzying The baiotches on the view

At least no body farked her Ellen Degenerate

I lost 50 pounds on that diet, once Oprah
 
2012-10-12 09:22:13 AM

On-Off: cryinoutloud: There's a lot of drunks out there who are sober and living normal lives today in part thanks to AA.

it's like my tinfoil-hat.
It has kept me safe from alien abduction for so many years, but sad bitter people keep laughing at me.

double-blind-studies, how do they work?


http://www.orange-papers.org/

Best information I've found on AA. I was a dues paying member of a club at one point and I will vouch that it is spot on.
 
2012-10-12 09:27:37 AM

cryinoutloud: I'm alive today partly because of AA. I did about 10% of those things. I've always found that the people who know the most about AA are those who've never been., or who are not alcoholics. If you aren't, (and saying 'I used to drink soooo much, and then I just quit, because I have willpower, you farking pussies!' doesn't count) then you forfeit any right to say how AA works or does not work.

There's a lot of drunks out there who are sober and living normal lives today in part thanks to AA. We actually went to meetings and changed our lives, instead of just whining about how mean AA was to us. You don't know shiat, and seriously, dude--I wouldn't take any advice from you on a dare. You're about the bitterest person on Fark.

I guess people like you would rather drunks die of it than have to hear the word "God." But that sounds about right--why would you want happiness for anyone else, if they can get there by doing something that you don't approve of? Even if it has absolutely no impact on your own life.


I lost one of my other best friends to alcoholism 3 years ago. He was diabetic and started drinking again. He was drinking on the job and got fired. Within 2 years he had sold off his entire vinyl record collection (over $80k), gave up his beloved pets, and was drinking a fifth of vodka a day until it killed him.

I was engaged to an alcoholic back in 2008. I didn't know she was an alcoholic until she moved in with me. She couldn't hide it for long and I ended up kicking her out (after a brief stint in rehab didn't take).

My best friend is an alcoholic (5 years sober next month). He struggled with it for years before he finally sobered up. He attends AA at least once a month (down from a couple times a week when he started really buying into the program). The bottom line for me is I don't care how someone finds sobriety...on their own, higher power, whatever....so long as it works for YOU and you're sober, I'm happy for you. Because knowing and loving a drinking alcoholic is nothing but pain.
 
2012-10-12 09:29:39 AM

frozenhotchocolate: I'm twenty six and was drinking a pint and a half a day every night by myself.


A pint and a half of what?
 
2012-10-12 09:31:38 AM
The point of the article? Well since it was originally on thefix.com , an addiction and recovery website I assume it was showing that alcoholics even though they cant drink that doesn't stop them from thinking that they could again without any issues.

I go to AA every week. There I talk with about 20 people about life and how to deal with it so alcohol does not come back into there lives. Some people talk about god. Some don't. You could not pick these people out of a crowd and point to them and say "they are alcholics." It would be great if I could drink like a normal person. It would be great if I could just man up and stop drinking. But it doesn't work that way. I used alcohol to relieve my stress and feel good. The alcoholic part of me said "if a little helped out a lot more will be even better." That really didn't work out to well. My friends in AA help me stay sober. and my life is a million times better than when I was drinking.
 
2012-10-12 09:41:59 AM
This guy sounds like me in parallel universe where that I moved to Paris instead of Vegas and substituting wine for Jim Beam and Makers Mark, and Nat Shermans for Marlboro and cigars. Except in Vegas it's a lot easier to lose cash gaming.

I had a 8 year bender (8 year Vegas vacation), EVERYDAY from the start of happy hour to midnight, sometimes 4 or 5. I spent more time in bars than a bartender. I also worked everyday, even the weekends. Looking back I can't believe that I didn't have a heart attack. Now I'm in relatively good physical condition, no one would guess that I was raging alcoholic/gambler for so long. Decent endurance, clear/bagless eyes, and fairly focused.

Don't move to Vegas if you like drinking, gambling, and easy women. And if you do, you need to find something to do that is more interesting than drinking, gambling and easy women.
 
2012-10-12 10:06:22 AM

uber humper: And if you do, you need to find something to do that is more interesting than drinking, gambling and easy women.


C'est impossible.
 
2012-10-12 10:06:33 AM
self control, what is it?

/understands addiction
//still just chose to stop drinking
 
2012-10-12 10:14:48 AM

nightlyraider: self control, what is it?

/understands addiction
//still just chose to stop drinking
I don't have any experience of alcoholism or addiction or even really understand any of it but I think I'm awesome anyway.


FTFY, you ignorant, smug little prick.
 
2012-10-12 10:47:04 AM
I love Paris and I love wine but  do agree that sometimes I think they are both conspiring to kill me.
 
Years ago, when I was in Paris I was on a budget so I found a cheap red wine at the wine shop near a friend's apartment I was staying in.  As I paid for a couple bottles the merchant stopped me and told me that brand was running a promotion.  They had these scratch off tickets.  I scratched.  FREE BOTTLE OF WINE!  So I went back to my friend's house with three rather than two bottles of cheap but servicable red wine.
 
Anyway, I spent the next week and a half in a cheap but servicable red wine stupor.  Every time I said I'm only going to get one bottle the scratch off card would give me TWO FREE BOTTLES OF WINE or 50 PER CENT OFF YOUR NEXT PURCHASE of cheap but servicable vin rouge.  It was both heaven and hell.
 
By the time I got back to New York my teeth were staines a deep shade of grape.
 
2012-10-12 10:52:47 AM

Braggi: The point of the article? Well since it was originally on thefix.com , an addiction and recovery website I assume it was showing that alcoholics even though they cant drink that doesn't stop them from thinking that they could again without any issues.

I go to AA every week. There I talk with about 20 people about life and how to deal with it so alcohol does not come back into there lives. Some people talk about god. Some don't. You could not pick these people out of a crowd and point to them and say "they are alcholics." It would be great if I could drink like a normal person. It would be great if I could just man up and stop drinking. But it doesn't work that way. I used alcohol to relieve my stress and feel good. The alcoholic part of me said "if a little helped out a lot more will be even better." That really didn't work out to well. My friends in AA help me stay sober. and my life is a million times better than when I was drinking.


I hope you don't get upset at my asking if you are working a formal program? Or how long you've been going?

I'm glad your doing well, I'm curious about your experience as a former member.
 
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