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(SeattlePI)   Palestinian teenager throwing rocks across border is gunned down by Israelis. And by Palestinian I mean Mexican and by Israelis I mean Americans   (seattlepi.com) divider line 69
    More: Stupid, Mexican, Palestinians, Israelis, lethal force, special agents  
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9605 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Oct 2012 at 1:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-12 01:34:26 AM  
6 votes:
"You do not throw rocks at a man who's got a machine gun!" - Rowdy Roddy Piper
2012-10-12 01:03:49 AM  
6 votes:
Hard thing to deal with, really. Safety of the officers is certainly a concern. Throwing rocks isnt childs play; in fact, stoning was an old method of capital punishment.

These guys have to protect themselves. They could have been hurt or killed. The act of self defense is warranted on events like this.
2012-10-11 11:57:14 PM  
5 votes:

This About That: FTFA: "As the agents approached to investigate, people on the Mexican side of the border began throwing rocks at them and ignored orders to stop, the agency said."

Here we go again with cops blowing people away for not doing as they are told. This has got to stop. That includes shooting Mexicans. Especially across an international border. Even in Arizona.



They assaulted and disregarded agents after violating an international border.

Good rule of thumb: do none of those three things.
2012-10-11 10:24:20 PM  
4 votes:
he was shot three times in the back while climbing a ladder trying to cross the border back into Mexico

Well now, I bet he won't try that again.
2012-10-12 09:25:06 AM  
3 votes:
I don't know how you idiots don't feel that assault with a deadly weapon shouldn't be responded to with equal or greater force? Do you want the Border Patrol agents to die? Do you want drug-runners to have free reign to enter and leave the country with no consequence? Once the Border Patrol backs out of rock throwing distance, what happens if the throwers take that as a sign of weakness and move forward to reclose the distance and keep throwing rocks, how far should these men have retreated within their own country where they are tasked with keeping it safe?
2012-10-12 02:22:53 AM  
3 votes:
Dear Mexican Government,

Please stop illegally exporting your own people.

Thank you.
2012-10-12 12:53:34 PM  
2 votes:

Langdon_777: Close Guantamino (and all the other secret prisons, incl those on water) and then we can discuss the issues.


This is a good point. We are. Guantanamo is highly criticized here in the U.S. Not a regular policy, like the Australia's detention centers are. And we don't deny it happened. Guantanamo was used to house prisoners perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be radical enemies of the U.S. Australia's detention centers, in comparison, are for any joe average person who wants to come into Australia. Except for white Europeans, coming into Australia of course. They don't have to stay in detention centers, do they.

Look, I don't think the U.S. is perfect. I just also happen to know that Australia has exactly zero ground to declare as morally high. I also don't go around posting on Australian message boards that all Australians "suck" because of their government policy.
2012-10-12 09:53:15 AM  
2 votes:

Shadune: Did the kid deserve to die for that?


In the U.S. the cops aren't justified in shooting people on the principle that they "deserved" it. If that sounds like bullshiat to you, consider the number of times an American cop has been cleared of brutality charges using the fact that the victim deserved it as a defense. (n = 0) In the U.S., officers are authorized to use deadly force in accordance with the policy of the agency they serve, and that policy is subject, sooner or later, to the approval of an elected representative and the judiciary. The people have their say in how much force is proper, and they've had policies changed.

No policy authorizes a cop to shoot, taze, cuff, whack, or speak harshly to a suspect because the cop judges him to be a bad person, but because his behavior in the circumstances meets defined criteria. If you try to cross a police line and an officer shoves you away, it is not because you "deserve" to be punished by shoving, but because he has been authorized to use force to keep people out, and because your representatives think it necessary and the courts think it proper that bystanders be excluded from crime scenes, by being shoved out if necessary.
2012-10-12 07:49:03 AM  
2 votes:
If you're stupid enough to throw rocks at openly armed men, you've fully earned your Darwin Award, and all humanity should thank whomever removed you from the gene pool for their service.
2012-10-12 05:37:54 AM  
2 votes:

Shadune: The US has gone too far over the line in valuing property rights over human rights.


Property rights weren't at issue here. Immigration law was, as well as the law governing dealings with police.

"Human rights" means nothing if it is code for your private opinion on how nicely people deserve to be treated. Apparently, most Americans embrace some idea of human rights that is consistent with shooting rock-throwing suspects, and ultimately rights have to be defined democratically. It's that whole "Govt. of the people, etc." concept.

The U.S. being "over the line" -- and "far" over it -- makes me wonder whose line you're using. I'm trying to picture other national borders I've visited where this might be handled more tenderly...

Japan -- Probably not a killing, but certainly a beating.
Korea -- Death
Singapore -- A beating, possibly followed by death.
Malaysia -- Don't want to think of it.
Thailand -- A beating and a possible killing, or if you have money on you, a beating and a robbing.
Cambodia -- Some combo of beating, killing and robbing.
U.A.E. -- Too lazy to chase you in the first place, and too incompetent to hit you, but no one would blame them for trying.
Saudi -- Like U.A.E., but the rock-throwing would seal your fate.
Spain -- A beating, possibly followed by death.
France -- Probably gentler than the U.S., unless you were obviously African.
Italy -- Hard to say, but I think they'd try to run you over with the cruiser, especially if you were African.

Obviously facetious and hand-waving, but I'd bet it's not far out. It's hard to compare, but for a border of its sort I'd bet the US-Mex border is policed more mercifully than average in this world.
2012-10-12 03:10:26 AM  
2 votes:
Mexico's Foreign Relations Department issued a statement later saying it "forcefully condemned" the shooting and calling such deaths "a serious bilateral problem."

A serious bilateral problem? Oh my, oh dear. Well gosh, I guess you'll have to stop sending all your criminals and poor people across the border illegally, until we can sort this problem out.
2012-10-12 02:02:39 AM  
2 votes:
Do they issue BP agents helmets?
Not so CSB. At an IP station in Iraq, one of the guys in another squad took off his ACH to fix the straps and got hit in the head with a rock thrown by some of the beggar kids. Apparently the concussion was bad enough that he got sent to Germany that week. Rocks are no joke.

\No, no one shot the kid
\\But "rock" doesn't always mean pebble, rocks can seriously fark someone up
2012-10-12 01:55:59 AM  
2 votes:
Here's an idea: Don't throw rocks at people with guns unless you're prepared to get shot at.
2012-10-12 01:48:51 AM  
2 votes:

coco ebert: doglover: This About That: FTFA: "As the agents approached to investigate, people on the Mexican side of the border began throwing rocks at them and ignored orders to stop, the agency said."

Here we go again with cops blowing people away for not doing as they are told. This has got to stop. That includes shooting Mexicans. Especially across an international border. Even in Arizona.


They assaulted and disregarded agents after violating an international border.

Good rule of thumb: do none of those three things.

This isn't the death strip of the Berlin Wall, for Christ's sake.


You let me throw some rocks at you.

If you survive, and you might not, tell me again how it's nothing and should be shrugged off.
2012-10-12 01:39:29 AM  
2 votes:
I guess the idea of walking out of range of the rock-throwers was just too damn reasonable.
drp
2012-10-12 01:39:15 AM  
2 votes:
Every death is a tragedy. Sounds like excessive force was used.

But seriously, how farking stupid do you have to be to throw rocks at people with guns?

/ Darwin always wins
2012-10-12 01:13:44 AM  
2 votes:
Have we been pushing Mexicans out of their homes to build settlements across what used to be the border?

No?

Then dump the dipshiat analogy.
2012-10-12 12:18:32 AM  
2 votes:

Nadie_AZ: PapaChester: [imageshack.us image 54x11]

I'll take a lot of criticism about my state, but this one is more about Federal Border Patrol than anything else.

Now, if you want to go after Jan Brewer, I'll accept that.

As the agents approached to investigate, people on the Mexican side of the border began throwing rocks at them and ignored orders to stop, the agency said.

Really? This is why it happened? Because what an American says on the US side of the border applies to Mexicans on the Mexico side of the border?



They were trying to retreat BACK to Mexio with cover rocks from the Mexicans on the Mexico side.

They were on US soil.
2012-10-11 09:32:18 PM  
2 votes:
imageshack.us
2012-10-13 12:40:14 AM  
1 votes:

Shadune: Policy schmolicy.
There's right and wrong.


In your mind only.

In the greater society of which you are a tiny part, there has to be some way to reconcile the millions of different views of right and wrong held by people who are every bit as sure of their moral infallibility as you are. Some compromise has to be codified, and it is not to be dismissed with a "policy schmolicy". 

"There's right and wrong." You are quite sure that this is a plain example of evil. I admire your wisdom. If it is so plain an evil, then others will agree with you and together you may be able to have the policy changed. If not (WARNING: self-esteem threatening concept inbound!) it may be that you are not qualified to define "right and wrong" for all humanity.
2012-10-12 01:25:21 PM  
1 votes:

flamingboard: Lethal force should NEVER be used when there is no threat to the lives of the cops. People throwing rocks at you over a fence? Stand a little further from the fence. Also, why would you ever need to shoot someone in the back as they are running away?


this
except the cops game the system by saying that they FEARED for their lives.
HAHAHAHAH HAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

in the end, until one of these assholes gets tried for murder, nothing will change.
2012-10-12 12:03:26 PM  
1 votes:
So, a fed shot a kid who was chucking rocks while border patrol was trying to retrieve narcotics that had been abandoned on the US side of the border. Sounds like a delightful kid (among others...seriously, there was a band of people doing this?? parents too maybe??) who was in no way trying to undermine US authority or aid drug smugglers with lethal force.

I love the comments in this thread. I like how this story is all about AZ when in fact it was a federal officer involved in the shooting. It's also intriguing how the officers should have gone and hid from the rock throwers while the drug smugglers came back into the country and retrieved their drugs.
2012-10-12 11:31:00 AM  
1 votes:
What are guns, really, but devices used for throwing small, dense rocks? So, technically, the Mexicans shot first, and using higher caliber rounds.
2012-10-12 11:19:24 AM  
1 votes:

Girion47: coco ebert: Girion47: Would this thread be different if everyone involved in the violent border intrusion were 40 years older?

No, because one of them is a dirty Messican in people's mind. There's no age cap on racism and xenophobia.

Also your charge of racism fails because you assume that the BP agent wasn't the same race as the foreign invader.


I wasn't referring to the actors involved but the peanut gallery here.
2012-10-12 11:03:51 AM  
1 votes:

Tatterdemalian: unlikely: Have we been pushing Mexicans out of their homes to build settlements across what used to be the border?

No?

Then dump the dipshiat analogy.

Americans pushed them out of their homes and off their land. Sure, it was two hundred years ago, but I have no problem making you pay for what my ancestors did.


1. There were MANY non-white Texicans who fought the Mexican army FWIW
2. The Mexicans of European decent pushed the indigenous inhabitants off their land throughout the Americas so there shouldn't be any butthurt when it happens right back by another group of Europeans.
3. Anything that happened 200 years ago is no justification for anyone alive today to behave like an asshat.
2012-10-12 11:03:22 AM  
1 votes:

Girion47: Would this thread be different if everyone involved in the violent border intrusion were 40 years older?


No, because one of them is a dirty Messican in people's mind. There's no age cap on racism and xenophobia.
2012-10-12 10:59:40 AM  
1 votes:
I have no problem with this. Throw rocks at a police officer from a location where you are immune to arrest, get shot instead. The Border Patrol has a right to defend itself.
2012-10-12 10:51:02 AM  
1 votes:

Disposable Rob: EZ Writer: "a 16-year-old boy drug smuggler was killed in the shooting"


FTFY. Anyone feel better now?

No, that just demonstrates that the most dangerous thing about marijuana is the police response to it.


"Drug war violence in Mexico took a life an average of every half hour last year in Mexico, the government estimates.

The administration of Felipe Calderon had resisted pressure to publish the death figures for months, but the Attorney General's Office finally posted the statistics on its website Wednesday.

The toll linked to the anti-cartel campaign launched by Calderon in 2006 continued to climb; there were 12,903 killings between January and September of 2011.

Total deaths stand at over 47,515, according to the government tally."

Your world must be quite a special place....
2012-10-12 10:27:42 AM  
1 votes:

EZ Writer: "a 16-year-old boy drug smuggler was killed in the shooting"


FTFY. Anyone feel better now?


No, that just demonstrates that the most dangerous thing about marijuana is the police response to it.
2012-10-12 09:44:19 AM  
1 votes:
If you are throwing rocks at armed guards protecting a sacred territory then you don't want to live on this planet anymore
2012-10-12 09:37:23 AM  
1 votes:

Girion47: Langdon_777: Shadune: ShannonKW: Don't bring a rock to a gunfight


Ideally these goons would stop bringing guns to a rock fight.
The US has gone too far over the line in valuing property rights over human rights.

That is one plus I will give Israel - watch footage of their soldiers (armed to the max, with armour and air support) deal with Palestinian teenagers throwing rocks over the (was going to say 'border' but that isn't true) demarcation line. As a rule I respect their restraint.

The difference is, the US isn't kicking mexicans out of their homes and replacing them with Americans because we feel we need more land.


We accomplished our manifest destiny/land grab a while back. We are not inherently morally superior to others. Our nation is made up of humans just like every other nation. Our moral standing comes down to our choices. The choices we are making regarding immigration are reminiscent of the way we treated Irish immigrants during the great famine and Jewish immigrants seeking safe haven during the thirties and forties. Fifty years from now, while our descendants commit some novel variation of injustice, people will look back on this era and wonder how we could have acted in such a misguided manner.
2012-10-12 08:02:06 AM  
1 votes:

taurusowner: Do they issue BP agents helmets?
Not so CSB. At an IP station in Iraq, one of the guys in another squad took off his ACH to fix the straps and got hit in the head with a rock thrown by some of the beggar kids. Apparently the concussion was bad enough that he got sent to Germany that week. Rocks are no joke.

\No, no one shot the kid
\\But "rock" doesn't always mean pebble, rocks can seriously fark someone up


Throwing the rock is an act of violence. We can't pretend it is a Ghandi like act of peaceful, non-violent protest. That said, the incident was handled correctly and honorably where you were in Iraq. The Border Patrol agents who discharged their firearms in this incident, at the least, should be dismissed from their jobs.
2012-10-12 07:49:04 AM  
1 votes:

God-is-a-Taco: Jose Rodriguez, the Mexican "John Smith" if ever there were one. 



Border agents are generally allowed to use lethal force against rock throwers.

That's... kind of disturbing. It should be age-restricted, I hope.


Nope. All ages are invited to throw friendship rocks. Latest trend is to write kind messages like "we love you" on the friendship rocks before hurling them to their recipient.
2012-10-12 07:45:37 AM  
1 votes:
Good!
2012-10-12 07:41:26 AM  
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: Ah yes, meanwhile Fortress Australia knowingly leaves boatloads (literally) of immigrants dying offshore on a weekly basis. And rounds up all those who make it onshore are rounded up into detention centers - Where sometimes they are allowed to start the naturalization process, and sometimes they are tortured or starved to death. Let's compare border control deaths, shall we?

Link

At the very least, we take some solace in the fact that we don't suck nearly as hard as Australia.


First off, if that was a troll or snark and I done messed up, then well done. Right, now that is out the way and if you are serious...

You are a farking idiot if you believe your post and swallowed that link's libtardian mega spin. Seriously, a farking idiot.
Australia is not to be blamed for vaaast majority of those deaths. The people on those boats are doing their utmost best to NOT get detected by Australian personnel, THAT is why they die when they run out of food/water/fuel or when their stupidly overcroweded boats capsize. Pretty damn hard to save a bunch of people in the sea if you don't damn well know where they are. Drownings are typically the fault of those on the illegal boats. If a boat is detected the arsewipes onboard have been known to intentionally damage their engines and the boat's hull so that it intentionally sinks, knowing that Australian personnel are obligated to obey the Law of the Sea and rescue them (thus making entry into Australia much more likely). Though they try, sometimes Australian peronnel can't rescue them all.

As to your claim of torture; only one mention of torture was made on that (bullshiat) site and that was in farking Indonesia, moran.
As to your starved to death claim; Site mentions no starvation. Yes, starvation has occurred in the past... due to detainee's voluntary hunger strikes. Everything is done to help stop/end such protests.
As to the listed deaths within detention centres; Yes, deaths in detention do happen, and are a small percentage of those detained. Notice how the cause of death is not mentioned for the vast majority? People die all the time, that it happens in a detention centre does not automatically indicate they were killed/tortured/starved intentionally or unintentionally.

/But you just keep spreading a shiatload of misinformation
//Asshat.
2012-10-12 06:20:55 AM  
1 votes:
Lethal force should NEVER be used when there is no threat to the lives of the cops. People throwing rocks at you over a fence? Stand a little further from the fence. Also, why would you ever need to shoot someone in the back as they are running away?
2012-10-12 05:56:45 AM  
1 votes:

wickedragon: cman: Hard thing to deal with, really. Safety of the officers is certainly a concern. Throwing rocks isnt childs play; in fact, stoning was an old method of capital punishment.

These guys have to protect themselves. They could have been hurt or killed. The act of self defense is warranted on events like this.
As a person whose go-to response to kids being dicks is killing the shiat out of them I completely approve of this message.
I am sure the boys family will agree with you completely that this was the absolutely right response.
PS! You're a horrible person and should really think about who you are.


It IS sad the young man got killed. My libbie heart bleeds for him.

But 16 is old enough to know not to throw rocks at men with guns. If he wasn't throwing the rocks, the fault lies with those who WERE, not the agents firing back. And with the kids parents, who should've raised him better.

Heaving a rock at someone IS assault. And not just "technically legal-by-definition" assault.

Don't believe me? Stand still, and let me throw a few bricks at you, see how long it takes me to put you in the hospital...
2012-10-12 04:41:13 AM  
1 votes:

ShannonKW: Don't bring a rock to a gunfight



Ideally these goons would stop bringing guns to a rock fight.
The US has gone too far over the line in valuing property rights over human rights.
2012-10-12 04:30:02 AM  
1 votes:

ceebeecates4: Nobody read TFA.

It seems that the kids were throwing rocks to prevent the border patrol from retrieving the drugs that were dropped by a fleeing crosser. Whether or not that calls for a lethal response is questionable, but if these kids were little cartel hoppers, the shooting probably just accelerated inevitability.

I'm not a fan of jack-booted border patrol thugs.

I'm even less a fan of the cartel.


Why? Are you a competing meth supplier?
2012-10-12 04:29:41 AM  
1 votes:

cman: Hard thing to deal with, really. Safety of the officers is certainly a concern. Throwing rocks isnt childs play; in fact, stoning was an old method of capital punishment.

These guys have to protect themselves. They could have been hurt or killed. The act of self defense is warranted on events like this.

As a person whose go-to response to kids being dicks is killing the shiat out of them I completely approve of this message.
I am sure the boys family will agree with you completely that this was the absolutely right response.
PS! You're a horrible person and should really think about who you are.
2012-10-12 04:27:03 AM  
1 votes:

wedun: you know who else thought that massive deporations were necessary for security?

upload.wikimedia.org
//obscure?


Hard to say if running out the Armenians was "necessary", but they certainly embodied a much reduced security threat afterward. And the Pasha was certainly right when he said that they would be no more merciful, given the upper hand. The boys in those hills have been playing rough since the days of Xenophon.

In case you're Armenian, don't take it to heart. Freaky people. Love your alphabet. The noses on your women... can be overlooked. Usually.
2012-10-12 04:19:30 AM  
1 votes:
Nobody read TFA.

It seems that the kids were throwing rocks to prevent the border patrol from retrieving the drugs that were dropped by a fleeing crosser. Whether or not that calls for a lethal response is questionable, but if these kids were little cartel hoppers, the shooting probably just accelerated inevitability.

I'm not a fan of jack-booted border patrol thugs.

I'm even less a fan of the cartel.
2012-10-12 03:45:31 AM  
1 votes:

Langdon_777: You guys suck.

I adored the Americans as a kid, when they would have R&R from Diago Garcia on my Island (they would let us hang out in the plane, and swap their hats for ours, unlike the Australians who were on active duty ... bastards ;)

STOP BEING FASCIST C***S.



Ah yes, meanwhile Fortress Australia knowingly leaves boatloads (literally) of immigrants dying offshore on a weekly basis. And rounds up all those who make it onshore are rounded up into detention centers - Where sometimes they are allowed to start the naturalization process, and sometimes they are tortured or starved to death. Let's compare border control deaths, shall we?

Link

At the very least, we take some solace in the fact that we don't suck nearly as hard as Australia.
2012-10-12 03:42:45 AM  
1 votes:
Don't bring a rock to a gunfight.
2012-10-12 03:22:50 AM  
1 votes:
You guys suck.

I adored the Americans as a kid, when they would have R&R from Diago Garcia on my Island (they would let us hang out in the plane, and swap their hats for ours, unlike the Australians who were on active duty ... bastards ;)

STOP BEING FASCIST C***S.
2012-10-12 03:13:19 AM  
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: KrispyKritter: BuckTurgidson: Border Patrol cops are as homicide-prone emotional insecure unprofessional violence-seeking pussies as the cops in our own cities.

Big surprise.

bingo! ^^^ This

if you watch the news closely enough it seems like the collective goal is for them to kill at least 1 unarmed person per day somewhere in the usa.

Internet nerds once again convinced they would be perfect at handling deadly force scenarios for a job they wouldn't take.

Big surprise.
Heck we even have one of those "shoot at their feet" tards in this thread.


Good luck, bro, hope you too aren't shot by mistake by one of your own over-amped cow-orkers.

Oh wait, you're not actually on the job, just shillin'.
You server your masters well.
And you will be rewarded.
2012-10-12 03:11:26 AM  
1 votes:

Mr. Carpenter: Securitywyrm: Here's an idea: Don't throw rocks at people with guns unless you're prepared to get shot at.

Here's an idea, instead of throwing rocks, next time just shoot the border patrol agents. If they're too dumb to use cover to shield themselves from rocks, it shouldn't be too hard to kill them.


The border patrol, of ALL LEOs, should be the very last organization under any obligation to suffer attack. You try to kill border patrol, they shoot you, all is right with the world.
2012-10-12 03:03:25 AM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: doglover: They assaulted and disregarded agents after violating an international border.

Good rule of thumb: do none of those three things.

While frankly the kid earned every bullet, the border agents also failed to recognize a situation where lethal force was not strictly speaking necessary.

Like most situations where someone gets shot, both parties farked it up. Generally speaking if either party in a confrontation is less than a complete dumbass then it doesn't escalate all the way to actual death.


A friend of mine is an agent and here is how he sees this: if it's just him, a single guy, he would risk the rocks to avoid shooting the kid. When it's him and his partner, who has kids, then he says he isn't going to let him get killed over his personal ethical dilemma. He owes it to his fellow agent to make sure he has his back.

I can't say I fault that line of thinking. As always, every scenario is different of course.
2012-10-12 02:52:33 AM  
1 votes:

BuckTurgidson: Border Patrol cops are as homicide-prone emotional insecure unprofessional violence-seeking pussies as the cops in our own cities.

Big surprise.


bingo! ^^^ This

if you watch the news closely enough it seems like the collective goal is for them to kill at least 1 unarmed person per day somewhere in the usa.
2012-10-12 02:46:52 AM  
1 votes:

Securitywyrm: Here's an idea: Don't throw rocks at people with guns unless you're prepared to get shot at.


Here's an idea, instead of throwing rocks, next time just shoot the border patrol agents. If they're too dumb to use cover to shield themselves from rocks, it shouldn't be too hard to kill them.
2012-10-12 02:29:51 AM  
1 votes:
And nothing of value was lost.
2012-10-12 02:26:27 AM  
1 votes:

Tatterdemalian: unlikely: Have we been pushing Mexicans out of their homes to build settlements across what used to be the border?

No?

Then dump the dipshiat analogy.

Americans pushed them out of their homes and off their land. Sure, it was two hundred years ago, but I have no problem making you pay for what my ancestors did.


No, no we didn't. We made them Americans. I know, that's not what you wanted to hear but it's the truth. An inconvenient truth for some.  Now argue that they would have been better off if they would have had to go to Mexico, I'd love to hear that one.
2012-10-12 02:24:40 AM  
1 votes:
Border Patrol cops are as homicide-prone emotional insecure unprofessional violence-seeking pussies as the cops in our own cities.

Big surprise.
2012-10-12 02:23:54 AM  
1 votes:
The BP should be able to call in napalm strikes. Seriously.
2012-10-12 02:16:16 AM  
1 votes:

taurusowner: Do they issue BP agents helmets?
Not so CSB. At an IP station in Iraq, one of the guys in another squad took off his ACH to fix the straps and got hit in the head with a rock thrown by some of the beggar kids. Apparently the concussion was bad enough that he got sent to Germany that week. Rocks are no joke.

\No, no one shot the kid
\\But "rock" doesn't always mean pebble, rocks can seriously fark someone up


I'm guessing this thread is split between people who've fought with rocks and armchair generals who've never actually seen what a rock is and are imagining driveway gravel.
2012-10-12 02:04:15 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: They assaulted and disregarded agents after violating an international border.

Good rule of thumb: do none of those three things.


While frankly the kid earned every bullet, the border agents also failed to recognize a situation where lethal force was not strictly speaking necessary.

Like most situations where someone gets shot, both parties farked it up. Generally speaking if either party in a confrontation is less than a complete dumbass then it doesn't escalate all the way to actual death.
2012-10-12 02:02:04 AM  
1 votes:

wedun: "They threw a cowpie at you and you order them all executed?! These people are starving!"


A rock ain't no cowpie.

200 odd jews held off an entire Roman legion for months with rocks and the high ground. If you huck rocks at anyone armed, expect retaliation.
2012-10-12 01:54:46 AM  
1 votes:
If the point is to keep people in Mexico, why pursue them if they retreat when you could just maintain surveillance for a bit and save your breath?

Illegal immigration isn't going to stop until we do massive deportations and lock up employers, IMO. Since we won't, and that would all end up sad, we get theatrics at the border instead of real security.
TWX
2012-10-12 01:47:22 AM  
1 votes:

Texian: I guess the idea of walking out of range of the rock-throwers was just too damn reasonable.


That's not reasonable at all. This is our sovereign territory based on treaty between the US and Mexico at the completion of the Gadsten Purchase. US citizens have every right to be secure from cross-border attacks in every location right up to the very edge of that border. Arguably, the Border Patrol's job is to ensure our safety at that border first and foremost, even above catching illegal border crossers.

Someone on this side started throwing things into Mexico, they'd be equally justified in retaliating.
2012-10-12 01:46:18 AM  
1 votes:
So yeah, a bunch of rock-throwing assholes. Sounds like just the kind of people we want to integrate into our society.

//Illegal immigrants: Throwing the rocks that Americans wont throw
2012-10-12 01:46:05 AM  
1 votes:

unlikely: Have we been pushing Mexicans out of their homes to build settlements across what used to be the border?

No?

Then dump the dipshiat analogy.


Americans pushed them out of their homes and off their land. Sure, it was two hundred years ago, but I have no problem making you pay for what my ancestors did.
2012-10-12 01:44:23 AM  
1 votes:

daxxenos: Nadie_AZ: PapaChester: [imageshack.us image 54x11]

I'll take a lot of criticism about my state, but this one is more about Federal Border Patrol than anything else.

Now, if you want to go after Jan Brewer, I'll accept that.

As the agents approached to investigate, people on the Mexican side of the border began throwing rocks at them and ignored orders to stop, the agency said.

Really? This is why it happened? Because what an American says on the US side of the border applies to Mexicans on the Mexico side of the border?

Hot Flash: Run away from a Mexican cop. Just see one, in Mexico, and turn and run. Under the Mexican rules about assumption of guilt, he WILL put a .45 ACP slug between your shoulder blades, No questions, no doubts, no warnings, no "Alto!" just BANG! It's called the Law of Flight.Hot Flash 2:


Hot Flash 2: Be an illegal alien in Mexico. (That means misplacing your visitor's card.) After you get out of prison, having lost everything you own, including your clothes, for the first offense, and are deported, if you insist on returning, guess how many years you will get?
2012-10-12 01:42:13 AM  
1 votes:
Not that Mexican Federales would hesitate to plug anyone who even lipped off to them, much less started chucking stones in their direction. But the U.S. Border Patrol should be above their level.
2012-10-12 01:40:49 AM  
1 votes:
Mexican hat dance hats are off to the parents of kids idiotic enough to throw rocks at people with guns. Brilliant. At least they didn't sneak across the border and force Arizona schools to attempt vainly to educate their child. And perpetual guilt on any adults who were nearby and not telling the kid to run away from that dangerous situation. It's not a decent thing to do to shoot a kid, but the adults in this kid's life should also be taking responsibility, because a little bit of parenting or guidance could have prevented this.
TWX
2012-10-12 01:40:39 AM  
1 votes:
I think that the Border Patrol needs a new weapon for this kind of assault. They need a weapon that is effectively a skunk-smell grenade. Throw it back, when it hits and goes off everyone in the immediate vicinity smells absolutely horrendous for days on end. If you want to get really fancy, include bank-type dyes too, so that American officials can notify Mexican officials of the incident and if those Mexican officials want to find the people they'll probably have little difficulty doing so between the smell and the dye.

I agree that violating an international border and attacking border enforcement officials with thrown objects deserves a retaliation. I wish that it wasn't with firearms, but that's the most handy and immediately available took at the border officer's disposal, and you'd think that after a certain number of shooting incidents that people would understand that they probably will be shot at, and while the diplomats may publicly squeal and moan, they'll also rule the response to be perfectly justified.
2012-10-12 01:39:00 AM  
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: PapaChester: [imageshack.us image 54x11]

I'll take a lot of criticism about my state, but this one is more about Federal Border Patrol than anything else.

Now, if you want to go after Jan Brewer, I'll accept that.

As the agents approached to investigate, people on the Mexican side of the border began throwing rocks at them and ignored orders to stop, the agency said.

Really? This is why it happened? Because what an American says on the US side of the border applies to Mexicans on the Mexico side of the border?


Hot Flash: Run away from a Mexican cop. Just see one, in Mexico, and turn and run. Under the Mexican rules about assumption of guilt, he WILL put a .45 ACP slug between your shoulder blades, No questions, no doubts, no warnings, no "Alto!" just BANG! It's called the Law of Flight.

Hot Flash 2:

2012-10-12 01:32:14 AM  
1 votes:
His funeral will be a sombre occasion, followed by a fiesta where three of his sisters will be impregnated.

/The circle of Mexico.
2012-10-12 01:06:26 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: This About That: FTFA: "As the agents approached to investigate, people on the Mexican side of the border began throwing rocks at them and ignored orders to stop, the agency said."

Here we go again with cops blowing people away for not doing as they are told. This has got to stop. That includes shooting Mexicans. Especially across an international border. Even in Arizona.


They assaulted and disregarded agents after violating an international border.

Good rule of thumb: do none of those three things.


This isn't the death strip of the Berlin Wall, for Christ's sake.
2012-10-11 10:44:13 PM  
1 votes:
FTFA: "As the agents approached to investigate, people on the Mexican side of the border began throwing rocks at them and ignored orders to stop, the agency said."

Here we go again with cops blowing people away for not doing as they are told. This has got to stop. That includes shooting Mexicans. Especially across an international border. Even in Arizona.
 
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