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(UPI)   Fossil shows early complex brains evolved much earlier than previously thought. Add this to the list of things we've learned by studying Larry King   (upi.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, arthropods, Evolutionary history, missing link, sensory organs, fossils, Neuroscience, insects  
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730 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Oct 2012 at 2:35 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-11 01:17:15 PM  
Arthropod brains, hundreds of millions of years after divergence from (what would become) Chordata.
 
2012-10-11 02:50:24 PM  
i407.photobucket.comcdn.ph.upi.com

I see similarity.
 
2012-10-11 03:00:15 PM  
That is actually pretty interesting. It goes to show you that, well, the universe is awesome, and will surprise you, if you keep looking.

www.brainpickings.org
... We really miss you, Mr. Sagan :(
 
2012-10-11 03:16:58 PM  
Well this leave less time for evolution to have worked its selective magic so I guess we can chalk up complex brains as another in a endless series of "happy coincidences" that made sentient life possible.
 
2012-10-11 03:20:31 PM  
Pretty cool.

The old guys had large general purpose brains.

Evolution shrunk then to the point that they were good at doing only what spiders need to do.
 
2012-10-11 03:22:46 PM  

nmemkha: Well this leave less time for evolution to have worked its selective magic so I guess we can chalk up complex brains as another in a endless series of "happy coincidences" that made sentient life possible.


Yeah, 4 billion years instead of 4.3 billion years. You've won this round, Creationists!
 
2012-10-11 03:27:41 PM  

nmemkha: I guess we can chalk up complex brains as another in a endless series of "happy coincidences" that made sentient life possible.


Technically, these brains don't have anything to do with what we usually term "sentient" life. We don't come from hermit crabs.

Also: you're an idiot and/or a troll.
 
2012-10-11 03:31:58 PM  

theorellior: nmemkha: Well this leave less time for evolution to have worked its selective magic so I guess we can chalk up complex brains as another in a endless series of "happy coincidences" that made sentient life possible.

Yeah, 4 billion years instead of 4.3 billion years. You've won this round, Creationists!


No one said anything about Creationism. Also, you can't win an argument without an answer that other side accepts.
 
2012-10-11 03:33:13 PM  

t3knomanser: nmemkha: I guess we can chalk up complex brains as another in a endless series of "happy coincidences" that made sentient life possible.

Technically, these brains don't have anything to do with what we usually term "sentient" life. We don't come from hermit crabs.

Also: you're an idiot and/or a troll.


See that little "No" symbol in the top right of the title bar of my post? Teach a man to fish, I say!
 
2012-10-11 03:35:26 PM  

t3knomanser: nmemkha: I guess we can chalk up complex brains as another in a endless series of "happy coincidences" that made sentient life possible.

Technically, these brains don't have anything to do with what we usually term "sentient" life. We don't come from hermit crabs.

Also: you're an idiot and/or a troll.


Brains have nothing to do with sentience?
 
2012-10-11 03:36:56 PM  

nmemkha: Brains have nothing to do with sentience?


Not those brains. These early-evolving brains didn't lead to human beings. They led to hermit crabs.
 
2012-10-11 03:44:29 PM  

t3knomanser: nmemkha: Brains have nothing to do with sentience?

Not those brains. These early-evolving brains didn't lead to human beings. They led to hermit crabs.


What is to say they did not develop earlier? Perhaps in a common ancestor. As this article shows, our knowledge on the subject is far from complete.
 
2012-10-11 03:52:05 PM  

nmemkha: No one said anything about Creationism.


You trotted out some stock phrases that IDers and YECs use all the time. Only thing missing was "watchmaker". It it looks, squishes and smells like crap, well...
 
2012-10-11 03:53:26 PM  

nmemkha: See that little "No" symbol in the top right of the title bar of my post? Teach a man to fish, I say!


Ignore is for the weak. I take my Fark neat, so I can keep track of the dumbfarks posting bullshiat.
 
2012-10-11 03:56:36 PM  

nmemkha: t3knomanser: nmemkha: Brains have nothing to do with sentience?

Not those brains. These early-evolving brains didn't lead to human beings. They led to hermit crabs.

What is to say they did not develop earlier? Perhaps in a common ancestor. As this article shows, our knowledge on the subject is far from complete.


Because the actual research article, and better summaries than the linked one, make it clear that this research is about the relatively complex brains of arthropods, which are VERY different from the brains of chordates like us. We share an origin of neural tissue and the rudimentary aspects of brains but the common ancestor of Arthropods and Chordates actually lived hundreds of millions of years before this. Arthropods as a group arose around 540 million years ago. The brains of chordates went down a very separate path from the brains of arthropods.
 
2012-10-11 04:58:04 PM  

nmemkha: What is to say they did not develop earlier?


Because there is no evidence or reason to think so. You're making things up.
 
2012-10-11 05:00:50 PM  

entropic_existence: nmemkha: t3knomanser: nmemkha: Brains have nothing to do with sentience?

Not those brains. These early-evolving brains didn't lead to human beings. They led to hermit crabs.

What is to say they did not develop earlier? Perhaps in a common ancestor. As this article shows, our knowledge on the subject is far from complete.

Because the actual research article, and better summaries than the linked one, make it clear that this research is about the relatively complex brains of arthropods, which are VERY different from the brains of chordates like us. We share an origin of neural tissue and the rudimentary aspects of brains but the common ancestor of Arthropods and Chordates actually lived hundreds of millions of years before this. Arthropods as a group arose around 540 million years ago. The brains of chordates went down a very separate path from the brains of arthropods.


Really? Last I heard the divergence date was less than 700 Ma.
 
2012-10-11 05:39:37 PM  

Erix: entropic_existence: nmemkha: t3knomanser: nmemkha: Brains have nothing to do with sentience?

Not those brains. These early-evolving brains didn't lead to human beings. They led to hermit crabs.

What is to say they did not develop earlier? Perhaps in a common ancestor. As this article shows, our knowledge on the subject is far from complete.

Because the actual research article, and better summaries than the linked one, make it clear that this research is about the relatively complex brains of arthropods, which are VERY different from the brains of chordates like us. We share an origin of neural tissue and the rudimentary aspects of brains but the common ancestor of Arthropods and Chordates actually lived hundreds of millions of years before this. Arthropods as a group arose around 540 million years ago. The brains of chordates went down a very separate path from the brains of arthropods.

Really? Last I heard the divergence date was less than 700 Ma.


Just over actually. Oldest estimate is in the 900 million year range but the mean/median of other studies is in the 700-750 Mya ballpark. This specimen is 520 Mya and the Arthropods arose sometime before that. Earliest estimates are around 540 million years ago but it could have been well before that. Anyway difference between 700+ Mya and 520 Mya is hundreds of millions of years. :)
 
2012-10-11 05:42:20 PM  

Erix: entropic_existence:

Because the actual research article, and better summaries than the linked one, make it clear that this research is about the relatively complex brains of arthropods, which are VERY different from the brains of chordates like us. We share an origin of neural tissue and the rudimentary aspects of brains but the common ancestor of Arthropods and Chordates actually lived hundreds of millions of years before this. Arthropods as a group arose around 540 million years ago. The brains of chordates went down a very separate path from the brains of arthropods.

Really? Last I heard the divergence date was less than 700 Ma.


The molecular clocks have resulted in numerous different divergence dates. Some of the earliest fossils that are probably basal arthropods are organisms like Spriggina from the Ediacaran fauna, which is late Proterozoic in age (less than 600 million years ago). The earliest chordates known from the fossil record are from the Chengjiang fauna in China (roughly 522 million years old). The tangible fossil evidence suggests a divergence between the two groups sometime in the late precambrian. If you regard the molecular dates as hypotheses to be tested using the rock record, they are essentially untestable hypotheses due to the poor preservational potential of soft-bodied organisms.

Either way, the results of this study aren't really that surprising. The development of complex body structures in association with complex neural structures isn't really shocking. What's interesting is the ability to get data that supports this hypothesis from a 520 million year old fossil.
 
2012-10-11 06:34:25 PM  
Mmmm...nothing like fried Fuxianhuia protensa.

Much like the name, it just rolls off the tongue.
 
2012-10-12 02:15:21 AM  

nmemkha: Well this leave less time for evolution to have worked its selective magic so I guess we can chalk up complex brains as another in a endless series of "happy coincidences" that made sentient life possible.


Ah, the old argument from incredulity. Well liked by IDers and creationists young and old.

Bonus points for calling natural selection "magic".
 
2012-10-12 02:37:44 AM  

nmemkha: theorellior: nmemkha: Well this leave less time for evolution to have worked its selective magic so I guess we can chalk up complex brains as another in a endless series of "happy coincidences" that made sentient life possible.

Yeah, 4 billion years instead of 4.3 billion years. You've won this round, Creationists!

No one said anything about Creationism. Also, you can't win an argument without an answer that other side accepts.


The "other side" won't accept anything that didn't come from their holy book. They can be freely discounted as a "side" at all.
 
2012-10-12 10:06:57 AM  
There is azombie/brains joke in this somewhere. Its too early, need caffeine.
 
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