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(The Conversation (Academic))   You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to call your opinion bullshiat   (theconversation.edu.au) divider line 194
    More: Obvious, scientific opinion, fair and balanced, University of Sydney, rhetoric of science, Meryl Dorey, Plato  
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9710 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Oct 2012 at 1:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-11 11:33:35 AM
FTA: If "Everyone's entitled to their opinion" just means no-one has the right to stop people thinking and saying whatever they want, then the statement is true, but fairly trivial. No one can stop you saying that vaccines cause autism, no matter how many times that claim has been disproven.

But if 'entitled to an opinion' means 'entitled to have your views treated as serious candidates for the truth' then it's pretty clearly false. And this too is a distinction that tends to get blurred.


So what your saying is that you are entitled to your opinion but not entitled for people to take it seriously?
I'll accept that.
 
2012-10-11 12:29:39 PM
You are only entitled to what you can argue for.

Agreed. Especially in that environment.

/Bachelors in Philosophy
//no, I'm not really doing anything with it
///well, logistics kinda counts, right?
 
2012-10-11 12:38:18 PM
You're entitled to your opinion, as long as you didn't get it from the radio or TV news.
 
2012-10-11 01:03:54 PM
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
 
2012-10-11 01:18:35 PM
You have the right to free speech.
You do not have the right to be free of ridicule or consequences of that speech, especially if you're being a goddamn idiot when you say what you want
 
2012-10-11 01:18:39 PM
Opinions are like assholes...everybody's got one.
 
2012-10-11 01:18:44 PM
You know what they say about "experts?"

An ex is a has-been, and a xpert is just a little more than a dribble.

/amidoinitrite?
 
2012-10-11 01:18:58 PM
Meryl Dorey is the leader of the Australian Vaccination Network, which despite the name is vehemently anti-vaccine. Ms. Dorey has no medical qualifications, but argues that if Bob Brown is allowed to comment on nuclear power despite not being a scientist, she should be allowed to comment on vaccines.

Dear Media,
You are not required to present "both sides of the argument" if one side of the argument is a load of crap.
 
2012-10-11 01:19:08 PM
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant." - Harlan Ellison
 
2012-10-11 01:20:27 PM

NutWrench: Meryl Dorey is the leader of the Australian Vaccination Network, which despite the name is vehemently anti-vaccine. Ms. Dorey has no medical qualifications, but argues that if Bob Brown is allowed to comment on nuclear power despite not being a scientist, she should be allowed to comment on vaccines.

Dear Media,
You are not required to present "both sides of the argument" if one side of the argument is a load of crap.


Oh? Meryl Doherty?

She's a coont of the highest caliber. Her frauds are well documented.
 
2012-10-11 01:20:36 PM
Social Sanction FTW!
 
2012-10-11 01:20:57 PM
If I can prove my opinion it's certainly just as valid as yours, if not moreso.
 
2012-10-11 01:21:00 PM
I'll bet he's also in charge of the shrimp dip.
 
2012-10-11 01:21:04 PM
Dorey, sorry. Stupid iPhone.
 
2012-10-11 01:21:29 PM

CapeFearCadaver: You are only entitled to what you can argue for.

Agreed. Especially in that environment.

/Bachelors in Philosophy
//no, I'm not really doing anything with it
///well, logistics kinda counts, right?


I completely agree. If you can't discuss why you believe what you do, and defend it against counter-arguments, considering it an entitlement doesn't work.
 
2012-10-11 01:22:21 PM
Wollongong? What a stupid name.

/just my opinion
 
2012-10-11 01:22:56 PM
I once had someone ask me what I thought of a particular singer, and when I said that I thought she was not very good he actually told me, "You're wrong." He then proceeded to lecture me on why my opinion was wrong. Years later his arrogance still makes me laugh!
 
2012-10-11 01:24:00 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.


Just take it easy man.
 
2012-10-11 01:24:02 PM
This isn't catching on. There is a huge number of people who resort to the "fingers in the ears, humming loudly" before they'll even consider debating with someone in disagreement. Unfortunately it seems we elect many of these people to public office and many more are appointed to positions by the people we've elected.
 
2012-10-11 01:24:37 PM

NutWrench: Meryl Dorey is the leader of the Australian Vaccination Network, which despite the name is vehemently anti-vaccine. Ms. Dorey has no medical qualifications, but argues that if Bob Brown is allowed to comment on nuclear power despite not being a scientist, she should be allowed to comment on vaccines.

Dear Media,
You are not required to present "both sides of the argument" if one side of the argument is a load of crap.


Well, like, that's just your opinion, man.

//agrees with you.
 
2012-10-11 01:24:49 PM
FTFA: A bit harsh? Perhaps, but philosophy teachers owe it to our students to teach them how to construct and defend an argument - and to recognize when a belief has become indefensible.


So in other words, Christians aren't allowed in his class.
 
2012-10-11 01:24:50 PM
I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

That being said, the headline basically sums up every single fark thread.
 
2012-10-11 01:24:51 PM

gopher321: Opinions are like assholes...everybody's got one.


mimg.ugo.com
 
2012-10-11 01:25:16 PM
It's a good thing I'm never wrong then, isn't it?
 
2012-10-11 01:25:34 PM
That article was a good read.

It's something that needs to be quoted in fark religion threads. Creationists, flat earthers and moon landing deniers deserve to read that article so they can feel appropriately bad about themselves.
 
2012-10-11 01:26:33 PM
I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to mock you for it.
 
2012-10-11 01:29:06 PM

Sticky Hands: I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to mock you for it.


Spoken like a true socialist.

//Words my father said to me when I said something similar to what you said. Needless to say, I don't speak much with him anymore since he went off the deep end.
 
2012-10-11 01:29:50 PM
I really enjoyed reading this article on r/truereddit last week.
 
2012-10-11 01:29:51 PM
FTA: Firstly, what's an opinion?

Firstly? A professor of philosophy actually uses this non-word? Good lord.

But that aside, it's actually a very interesting article.
 
2012-10-11 01:30:44 PM

mooseyfate: So in other words, Christians aren't allowed in his class.


They most certainly are. They will simply be subjected to higher blood pressure if they can't defend their positions with actual logic and resort to the old: It's my opinion/belief, man!
 
2012-10-11 01:30:47 PM
He's a liberal arts professor. What he means is that "you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to fail you if it disagrees with mine"
 
2012-10-11 01:30:48 PM
"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts"
-Bernard M. Baruch
 
2012-10-11 01:32:09 PM

Mock26: I once had someone ask me what I thought of a particular singer, and when I said that I thought she was not very good he actually told me, "You're wrong." He then proceeded to lecture me on why my opinion was wrong. Years later his arrogance still makes me laugh!


I had one of those, but then he pointed out that "Good" could be interpreted as technical merit. So an artist could be "good" (well trained, hits notes correctly, can do very complex songs without error) but still "not be your style".
 
2012-10-11 01:32:19 PM

Molavian: If I can prove my opinion it's certainly just as valid as yours, if not moreso.


Know how I can tell you didn't RTFA?
 
2012-10-11 01:32:32 PM

The Dog Ate My Homework: FTA: Firstly, what's an opinion?

Firstly? A professor of philosophy actually uses this non-word? Good lord.

But that aside, it's actually a very interesting article.


Merriam-Webster actually lists that word in their online dictionary.
 
2012-10-11 01:34:07 PM

The Dog Ate My Homework: FTA: Firstly, what's an opinion?

Firstly? A professor of philosophy actually uses this non-word? Good lord.

But that aside, it's actually a very interesting article.


I liked it.

You can't really argue over taste. But when your opinion is that vaccines cause autism, or the moon landing was fake, or the president was born in Kenya, well, I dunno what to say except, you're wrong and sadly no amount of facts will get you to change your mind.

Subtle nudges might work, but people don't want to question their beliefs. It's scary. Just suggesting it can cause anger and in extreme cases violence.
 
2012-10-11 01:35:07 PM

Leeds: That article was a good read.

It's something that needs to be quoted in fark religion threads. Creationists, flat earthers and moon landing deniers deserve to read that article so they can feel appropriately bad about themselves.


I think I see a small flaw in your plan.
 
2012-10-11 01:35:35 PM

meat0918: Sticky Hands: I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to mock you for it.

Spoken like a true socialist.

//Words my father said to me when I said something similar to what you said. Needless to say, I don't speak much with him anymore since he went off the deep end.


I'd call that libertarian myself.

On Fark, it's open season anyway. Just when I think that things are getting civil I get called names or told by someone what I must think of something marginally related to the issue. If i didn't find it entertaining I'd leave.
 
2012-10-11 01:36:42 PM

Leeds: That article was a good read.

It's something that needs to be quoted in fark religion threads. Creationists, flat earthers and moon landing deniers deserve to read that article so they can feel appropriately bad about themselves.


You know who else needs to read the article and feel appropriately bad about themselves?

Randroids.
 
2012-10-11 01:37:39 PM

LaraAmber: Mock26: I once had someone ask me what I thought of a particular singer, and when I said that I thought she was not very good he actually told me, "You're wrong." He then proceeded to lecture me on why my opinion was wrong. Years later his arrogance still makes me laugh!

I had one of those, but then he pointed out that "Good" could be interpreted as technical merit. So an artist could be "good" (well trained, hits notes correctly, can do very complex songs without error) but still "not be your style".


Object lesson in why that argument fails.

upload.wikimedia.org

/ You've released the farking fury!
 
2012-10-11 01:37:57 PM
I prefer to operate on the basis that everyone is entitled to my opinion.
 
2012-10-11 01:38:09 PM

BronyMedic: Dorey, sorry. Stupid iPhone.


Inanimate objects are not stupid.
People, however. . .
 
2012-10-11 01:38:28 PM
Meryl Dorey is a deluded liar who through her antivaxxer misinformation and ignorance has killed children. The media have their part to play because they gave this woman a platform and the oxygen of publicity. I wonder if Australian broadcasters feel any sense of responsibility for that and why their broadcast codes don't specifically state what balance actually means.
 
2012-10-11 01:39:29 PM

meat0918: The Dog Ate My Homework: FTA: Firstly, what's an opinion?

Firstly? A professor of philosophy actually uses this non-word? Good lord.

But that aside, it's actually a very interesting article.

I liked it.

You can't really argue over taste. But when your opinion is that vaccines cause autism, or the moon landing was fake, or the president was born in Kenya, well, I dunno what to say except, you're wrong and sadly no amount of facts will get you to change your mind.


I have a 0 tolerance policy for retards. I base this on my opinion that you can not reason a person out of a position if they did not first reason themselves into it.
 
2012-10-11 01:39:42 PM

PallMall: You know what they say about "experts?"

An ex is a has-been, and a xpert is just a little more than a dribble.

/amidoinitrite?


am X is an unknown quantity
a spurt is a drip under pressure
 
2012-10-11 01:40:25 PM
 
2012-10-11 01:40:55 PM
dilbert.com
 
2012-10-11 01:41:08 PM

BKITU: Leeds: That article was a good read.

It's something that needs to be quoted in fark religion threads. Creationists, flat earthers and moon landing deniers deserve to read that article so they can feel appropriately bad about themselves.

You know who else needs to read the article and feel appropriately bad about themselves?

Randroids.


Agree with all of that, but there's a limit. If I have to back up everything I feel in every conversation, it will be like being in prison with "Skeptics". Sometimes we can discuss things without you needing to back up, prove, and analyze every god damned thing everyone says.
 
2012-10-11 01:42:31 PM

meat0918: The Dog Ate My Homework: FTA: Firstly, what's an opinion?

Firstly? A professor of philosophy actually uses this non-word? Good lord.

But that aside, it's actually a very interesting article.

I liked it.

You can't really argue over taste. But when your opinion is that vaccines cause autism, or the moon landing was fake, or the president was born in Kenya, well, I dunno what to say except, you're wrong and sadly no amount of facts will get you to change your mind.

Subtle nudges might work, but people don't want to question their beliefs. It's scary. Just suggesting it can cause anger and in extreme cases violence.


I have an incredibly smart friend of mine that honestly believes the 9/11 attacks were an inside job. His argument is that "buildings don't fall like that because a plane hits them.". My argument against that was "How would you know? The only two documented 747 attacks on skyscrapers caused them to collapse just like that.". His counter-argument was just a restatement of his first. I don't understand people sometimes.
 
2012-10-11 01:44:07 PM

Slartibartfaster: PallMall: You know what they say about "experts?"

An ex is a has-been, and a xpert is just a little more than a dribble.

/amidoinitrite?

am X is an unknown quantity
a spurt is a drip under pressure


That is how my father taught it to me.
 
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