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(BusinessWeek)   Grandpa's kisses taste like DEATH   (businessweek.com) divider line 32
    More: Scary, grandfather, berg Markets, Ohio Department of Health  
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9925 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Oct 2012 at 10:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-11 10:13:05 AM
5 votes:
It sounds like mom waiting 10 days, until the little girl was literally shiatting blood, before getting medical help for her might not have helped.
2012-10-11 10:15:13 AM
4 votes:
That is one of the sadder stories I'll read today. On a related note: if you have to carry your kid into the bathroom 15 times a day to take a runny shiat, maybe call a doctor?

No need to wait for anal hemorrhaging.

Her parents will have to live with that negligence fr the rest of their lives.
2012-10-11 10:45:01 AM
2 votes:

BronyMedic: H31N0US: That is one of the sadder stories I'll read today. On a related note: if you have to carry your kid into the bathroom 15 times a day to take a runny shiat, maybe call a doctor?

No need to wait for anal hemorrhaging.

Her parents will have to live with that negligence fr the rest of their lives.

The only way to tell between Enterohemorrhagic E.Coli induced Diarrhea and that from Salmonella, Shigella, or Viral is through laboratory studies. In addition, anyone who's had gastroenteritis or salmonella will tell you that 15 times is pretty much the norm.

Fresh blood is actually very common in pediatric diarrhea, and is usually of very little concern if it's a small amount. It's when it's frank and large fresh amounts, or ruddy, tarry, or frankly red colored that you should be concerned.

As long as she was taking fluids by mouth, and as long as she was able to stay hydrated with diarrhea as her ONLY complaint, her pediatrician would have probably said stay at home anyway, or MAYBE admitted her after an examination.

You use that word negligence and blame the parents, but what in reality happened is this child got unlucky and caught a very deadly bug.


I'm going to disagree with you on this one. By the time a 7 year old has gone more than 8-10 times in a day, she's going to be passing rice water -- and that's an absolutely classic sign that you're not dealing with minor GE. And e coli stools (and c. diff for that matter) smell entirely different than your normal upset stomach stool. This kid had weakness and abdominal pain that was profound enough to preclude walking to the toilet on her own. I'm willing to bet any amount of money that if her folks had taken her temp she would have been throwing a hell of a fever, dry mouth, decreased urination, and wouldn't have passed a refill test. Her parents were negligent as hell. If they'd gotten her in before she started shedding submucosa or perforated bad enough to hemorrhage she'd likely be alive today.
2012-10-11 10:43:01 AM
2 votes:

NannyStatePark: That woman is the stupidest biatch ever. My kid would have been in the ER just to have her hydration checked on diarrhea number three or so.


And they would have probably tanked your 11 year old kid up on IV fluids, sent off a stool culture to cook, and sent your kid home until the culture came back. Only if your kid had really jacked up labs or poor urine output would they admit him or her. Then they would have called to check on the child, and MAYBE called them back in depending on if they had a fever or were feeling worse.

NannyStatePark: Parents who don't have insurance often think medical neglect is excusable. I have zero tolerance or sympathy for someone who can't find one of the zillion free or cheap programs designed to help their kids. They should go to jail.


Ah, I see. The "Fark you, I got mine" approach to dealing with legitimate healthcare issues. You do realize that there are many parents in the system who make TOO MUCH at their dead end, minimum wage jobs to get on the medicaid assistance programs without having a special needs child, right? And that it's not as easy as just applying?

Regardless of idealism, when you're struggling to even make ends meat every day, that weighs into whether you go for some diarrhea. It's just like the elderly making a choice between the medicine that keeps them stroking out and the food that keeps them alive.

Tenncare, for example, boots gorked kids with ventilators at home off their coverage list. The safety nets and systems established for children are broken.
2012-10-11 10:38:20 AM
2 votes:

BronyMedic: You use that word negligence and blame the parents, but what in reality happened is this child got unlucky and caught a very deadly bug.


Whatever you say man. If my kid has issues like that for more than a day I am taking her in. Especially if I know she has had contact with an e coli patient recently.

You want to white knight these people, fine. But you are incorrect in doing so.
2012-10-11 10:34:42 AM
2 votes:

JackieRabbit: These rare forms of E. coli are pretty nasty and highly contagious. Because of this patients should be placed in isolation and children under 14 not allowed to visit.


THIS. At the very least the guy should have been in contact isolation. It boggles the mind how anyone could have been allowed in that room under the age of 16.

Litig8r: There's a huge difference between normal diarrhea and shiatting water. The latter is a huge and obvious sign of a real issue. You think someone with even the nominal medical training required to be a pharmacy tech would at least know that.


Pharmacy techs don't receive training in assessment and diagnosis of acute medical problems. In addition, I've had viral gastroenteritis so I can speak from experience - by the thirtyith time I went to the toilet in the first day, I was shiatting water. However, because I could keep PO fluids down and not hoark them back up, they would not admit me.

/the last thing you want to do for viral and bacterial diarrhea is to give medicines to slow or stop it from coming out.
//The second to last thing you want to do for Enterohemorrhagic E.Coli diarrhea with no evidence of sepsis is give broad spectrum antibiotics. It can actually LEAD to Acute Hemolytic-Uremic Syndrome
2012-10-11 02:20:04 PM
1 votes:

NannyStatePark: I posted a factual account of the illness that makes her look like the cheap, lazy child neglecting idiot she is, of course you can't counter the truth.


sharkstunter.files.wordpress.com

Alright. Let me stop you right there. I wasn't going to respond anymore because I was tired of dealing with an overly emotional, self-righteous mother who has placed herself on a pedestal above everyone else because of her growing up on welfare and her ability to utilize the University of Google to try to prove her transcript of events.

First off, you did not post a factual account of her illness. You linked to a brochure about abdominal pain from Canada which is designed to be printed off and set aside in doctor's offices and gives generalized advice designed to encourage anyone who has not been one-on-one evaluated to come to an ER, and you linked to a lawyer's website which returns a 404 error.

No Healthcare provider is going to tell a mother not to bring a sick child to an ER that they cannot lay hands on and examine. The litigious environment of the United States is such that even if you call with a cut to the thumb from an envelope, they're going to tell you to either go to the nearest ER, or call your PCP to get advice from them.

NannyStatePark: I can be a self righteous judgemental sandy vagina biatch all freaking day long


i.imgur.com

NannyStatePark: but that's irrelevant to the fact this woman sat on her ass way too long.


And you're entitled to your opinion. However, the fact that this woman waited four days to bring her child to the ER, a child who was still ONLY complaining of weakness, abdominal pain, and diarrhea, and who had been able to take enough fluids to have a stable enough blood pressure to get Morphine Sulfate on arrival, a drug who's primary contraindication is hypotension and hypovolemia did not change how or why this child died. The child did not die of a GI Bleed. In fact, the child did not die of a time-sensitive condition at all. The child died because of progression of the infection, which would have happened ANYWAY even if the child had been admitted on day one of it.

That's the hilarious thing you're not comprehending here. Even if the mother had brought the child into the nearest ER the FIRST loose stool she had, they would have sent the child home with a diagnosis of viral gastroenteritis with stool culture that would have taken two to three days to grow out EHEC, at which point the child would have been brought back by mom anyway for the weakness. The fact that the mother waited the weekend to bring the child in is irrelevant. It has no link to the child dying. Because the child did not DIE of the diarrhea. She DIED of the INFECTION for which antibiotic treatment is controversial, if not contraindicated for in the first place.

The child died of a stroke. Not of Diarrhea. Not of dehydration or electrolyte imbalance. She died of a stroke. FIve days after admission to a Children's Hospital, FTFA.
Do you know what causes that stroke in EHEC? verotoxin induced Dissiminated Intravascular Coagulopathy and Renal Failure from the Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome.


By your own admission, you would have been in the exact same situation had you done what you stated in this thread.

You are so full of crap with these mental gymnastics it's not even funny. You are desperately grasping at straws trying to blame one person for a tragic situation which was full of tragic events.

NannyStatePark: And your argument about her cause of death rendering her mothers behavior moot is stupid. Even if she was dying she deserved palliative care.


Do you even know the definition of Palliative Care? This child was in the care of a regional Pediatrics Facility when she died. She was receiving intensive care and she bled into her brain, stroked, and died.

img.medscape.com

NannyStatePark: Nope, I out myself when I troll later in the thread, haven't in a while. I don't socially network online so that frees me to give my real thoughts instead of worrying if I fit in here. I don't, really, but I'm fine with why I don't.


I was really hoping you were trolling on this. I really was. Instead, I'm going to have to go with you being a mixture of not knowing anything about what you're talking about, and a self-righteous individual who thinks that growing up on welfare means anyone else who doesn't game the system, or doesn't meet eligibility for one of the many "free" - in your mind - programs to "Help children", in the United States, means they're a terrible mother, when in reality the amount of self-delusion and ignorance you demonstrate on just how broken those "safety nets" are is boggling.

www.simonstapleton.com
2012-10-11 12:24:56 PM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: You were the one that tried to claim that watery diarrhea warranted a PICU admission. There was not even a mention of the other symptoms.


Say what?

H31N0US: if you have to carry your kid into the bathroom 15 times a day

2012-10-11 11:50:23 AM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: NannyStatePark: If a freaking SEVEN year old cant get themselves to the bathroom they need a doctor. If they are basically shiatting water, they need a doctor. If they were recently in a hospital as a visitor and came down with those symptoms, as per literature I've seen posted in the lobby at mine...guess what, they need a doctor.

And on a weekend, that on-call nurse - you will not speak with the Pediatrician, the nurse for that practice will talk to you - will tell you go to the local ER. That local ER will CT your child or Ultrasound, depending on how progressive they are - to rule out a surgical emergency such as intussusception, bowel obstruction, or appendicitis, will do stool cultures, blood cultures, a CBC, a BMP, and a cath/clean catch UA, will run rapid flu, and strep, and if your child is not having any other symptoms than watery diarrhea and abdominal cramps with a small amount of blood in them, will tank them up with an IV fluid bolus, make sure the kid can pass a PO challenge, give you instructions on what to look for, and tell you they will call you monday with your lab tests and fax the results to your PCP, and that you should follow up in two to three days as long as the child is doing better.


Peace of mind...priceless.
2012-10-11 11:47:59 AM
1 votes:
Yeah, I'm definitely going to call it. Considering the article doesn't give any specifics as to what happened otherwise, I'm thinking this is roughly the timeline of events:

Thursday: Kid complains of stomach cramping. No biggie, really, unless she had a fever. (They don't always.) Sometime that night or...

Friday: Kid starts having problems, maybe even a low-grad temp-- again, nothing unusual or serious in most cases. If the parent called the pediatrician, they'd have likely told her to keep an eye on the child and bring her in if she started running a high temp or if she was still having problems two days later. Considering this is a Friday...

Saturday & Sunday: Problems persist, but this is a two-day period. A lot of parents will say, "Okay, well the office opens on Monday, so if she's still having trouble by then, we'll take her in on Monday." If she wasn't running a particularly high temp AND was able to keep down fluids without barfing them up, they probably wouldn't have seen a reason to drag her to an emergency room-- which wouldn't even produce lab results until Monday in all likelihood anyway.

Monday morning: Blood in the bed. Child taken to the hospital. Child dies about a week later.

Realistically speaking, I don't know many parents who would have reacted differently. The article states she had 15 watery bms-- not per day. That's roughly 5 per day if her only problem on Thursday was stomach cramping.
2012-10-11 11:39:27 AM
1 votes:

NannyStatePark: If a freaking SEVEN year old cant get themselves to the bathroom they need a doctor. If they are basically shiatting water, they need a doctor. If they were recently in a hospital as a visitor and came down with those symptoms, as per literature I've seen posted in the lobby at mine...guess what, they need a doctor.


Just because you've seen literature doesn't mean that everyone has. The mother had no idea that anything was contagious, and hospitals give people a false sense of security. Most people don't realize just how teaming with germs they are.

As to kids not being able to walk to the bathroom. EVERY SINGLE TIME my 6-year-old daughter gets a stomach virus (which is about three times a year), she's shiatting water and can't walk to the bathroom. And EVERY SINGLE TIME she's fine in about 12 hours. And EVERY SINGLE TIME I call the doctor, he has the nurse call me back telling me that not only should I wait until it's been 48 hours and/or she's showing more symptoms to bring her in, but I'll also be charged $20 for the "non-emergent" call.

Yes, it's totally not normal for a kid to complain of a stomachache on a Thursday, start having real problems on a Friday, and the parents think they should maybe wait out the weekend if the kid isn't yacking up liquids and doesn't have a fever and take her in on Monday if she's still sick. (The article doesn't state she had any other symptoms.)
2012-10-11 11:34:06 AM
1 votes:
If a freaking SEVEN year old cant get themselves to the bathroom they need a doctor. If they are basically shiatting water, they need a doctor. If they were recently in a hospital as a visitor and came down with those symptoms, as per literature I've seen posted in the lobby at mine...guess what, they need a doctor.
2012-10-11 11:32:53 AM
1 votes:
I'd also like to note that she complained of a stomachache on May 7 and states that Abby had 15 watery bowel movements. It doesn't say that's 15 per day, and it mentions Mother's Day. Going on that, we don't know that she was showing any other symptoms on the first day at all, and with it May 7, 2009 being a Thursday, we're also looking at a situation that likely unfolded over a weekend-- in which case the parents took her in on Monday. (Yes, that does make a difference in how people typically deal with medical issues in the U.S.)
2012-10-11 11:31:15 AM
1 votes:

NannyStatePark: Wow, I say this as a woman who spent her childhood on welfare. I've worked as an adult with people on public assistance. Responsibility doesn't care about income.


I'm sorry, you said THIS.

NannyStatePark:
I have zero tolerance or sympathy for someone who can't find one of the zillion free or cheap programs designed to help their kids. They should go to jail.

That's so goddamn naive and problem-ignoring it's not even funny.

In addition, because this child died of an illness, the mother should go to jail? Really? Where did she withhold care? Where did she refuse to let medical professionals intervene when the child was critically ill?

The majority of people who actually NEED the assistance aren't willing to game the system in order to cheat it out of taxpayers, or don't even qualify because despite being in the poverty bracket, they make too much for their state medicaid program to cover them.

We actually reward people for not having a job and being dependant on assistance, versus rewarding people who are at least trying to contribute to their families and society.

NannyStatePark: If you think this chick is blameless, fine.


Oh boy. Please quote where I said that. I said this woman is not the murderer you want to portray her as, and an unfortunate series of circumstances, as well as blunt negligence on the part of the hospital for letting a farking child into an isolation room with a patient who was contageous lead to this child's death.

NannyStatePark: As a mother I don't. I don't feel the need to get personal or proclaim my psychic powers tell me what you believe about politics. I used to think you were reasonable.


What are you doing right now?

You're telling EVERYONE that because you were on welfare, that everyone else should easily be able to get on it too, and get into programs which are broken, underfunded, and commonly cheated by people who don't need them.

If you really need help, there are programs for it! Anyone who doesn't use them is just stupid. That is the message you are putting out there right now.

The fact that we don't have a healthcare system that could cover this child and not have the parents go into debt over it is one of the reasons that this kid is dead.

Let that sink in for a moment.
2012-10-11 11:23:57 AM
1 votes:

H31N0US: I will interpret this as an admission that I was right.


You were the one that tried to claim that watery diarrhea warranted a PICU admission. There was not even a mention of the other symptoms. Of of the fact this girl had the illness for four days before being sent to the hospital, not the 10 or so claimed by people in this thread.

Smacking them upside the head because they didn't recognize - at most - 18 hours earlier that the child wasn't getting any better is not the same thing as calling them responsible for the death of their child.

Enterohemorrhagic colitis caused by Escherichia Coli with EHC Toxin production is the reason their child died. Not the mother.

But, I guess it really is easier to blame a human being with no more medical training that someone who took Red Cross First Aid versus blaming a bacterium you can't see with the naked eye.

These aren't people that refused care for their child, or tried to take them from the hospital based on something their holy book told them to do. They didn't know, and faced a broken system which financhially punishes anyone who is cautious and zealous about seeking treatment.
2012-10-11 11:20:56 AM
1 votes:

binnster: Why it took the mother so long to get her daughter medical treatment is anyone's guess, no way would I be waiting 10 days if my daughter was that ill,


Ok, slight retraction as I see it was more like 4 days, but still, I'd probably be in the doctor's waiting room by day 2, possibly sooner if I already had one relative in hospital dying of the shiats.
2012-10-11 11:14:36 AM
1 votes:
Tragic death of a child aside, I can't stand news articles that are written like stories. Just give me the facts, without trying to emotionalise it. And what the fark happened to Grandad? Did he make it? Why it took the mother so long to get her daughter medical treatment is anyone's guess, no way would I be waiting 10 days if my daughter was that ill,
2012-10-11 11:14:14 AM
1 votes:

rashkae: Where does this 'waited 10 days' come from? The article didn't come with a neat time line, but...

May 7, girl has a tummy ache.

There might or might not be some diarhea between May 7 and 10.

May 10 (Mothers day, 2009) girl is not getting off the couch and needs to be carried for several bowel movements. This is the point I would say immediate medical care would be called for.

May 11, she's dead.

So at most, there's an 18 hour window of negligence here. Maybe, if the parents had taken immediate action on the morning of the 10th, her life could have been saved, we'll never know. But nothing like this 10 days I see being bandied about.


Oh, good. Someone else noticed that, although it says she died on the 17th, not the 11th. She was rushed to the hospital on the 11th.
2012-10-11 11:12:21 AM
1 votes:

quietwalker: My MIL is a nurse, and has worked with a wide range of specialist doctors during her career.

She has at times suggested:
- Potentially dangerous levels of zinc
- Magnets placed in shoes
- Magnetic/Three-Metal Braclets
- Juice 'Cleanses'/Fasts
- Enemas
- Acupuncture
- Chiropractic Realignment

She did not come up with these by herself, either - these are coming from her interacting with doctors who - for example - won't go golfing without their energy bracelet. Yes, there are - to hear my MIL talk about it, at least - there are doctors who strongly believe in these things.


And the scary thing is that their MD license gives them the ability to promote any of these things they want to. Medical Boards and licensing bodies feel that negligence and malpractice are best handled as employer and civil matters, and they have a gentlemen's agreement with doctors to not intervene unless laws are broken.

So, you can lose your medical license for drug diversion, but not from killing people by telling them to drink herb mixtures and enemas instead of getting Chemotherapy for their cancer.

quietwalker: Not every doctor is doing research, performing scientific study, or even necessarily intelligent. Whole segments can probably get by just by nodding their head when the pharma reps come in, and keeping loose mental track of whether a drug appears to work or not, and a list of specialists to recommend a patient to.

Even if they are a degreed, board-certified muckity-muck, they can still be total morons when it comes to the things that they have been expected to be masters of.


You can find numerous websites about bad behavior by supposedly educated people who we trust with our lives.
2012-10-11 11:11:31 AM
1 votes:
Where does this 'waited 10 days' come from? The article didn't come with a neat time line, but...

May 7, girl has a tummy ache.

There might or might not be some diarhea between May 7 and 10.

May 10 (Mothers day, 2009) girl is not getting off the couch and needs to be carried for several bowel movements. This is the point I would say immediate medical care would be called for.

May 11, she's dead.

So at most, there's an 18 hour window of negligence here. Maybe, if the parents had taken immediate action on the morning of the 10th, her life could have been saved, we'll never know. But nothing like this 10 days I see being bandied about.
2012-10-11 11:10:56 AM
1 votes:

attention span of a retarded fruit fly: we were told 5 days is normal. Anything over that needs to be seen.

She waited 10....

4 kids here... no freaking way I would wait 10 especially if they are just lying in bed.. lying in bed in there in 2 days


Just to clarify for some folks...

FTA: Girl showed symptoms on May 7, was rushed to the hospital on May 11, and died on May 17.

It was 10 days before she DIED, not 10 days before her parents sought medical attention. Her parents rushed her to the hospital on the morning of the FOURTH day. By your own comment, you'd have been in the same boat as this mother.
2012-10-11 10:55:48 AM
1 votes:

mongbiohazard: It sounds like mom waiting 10 days, until the little girl was literally shiatting blood, before getting medical help for her might not have helped.


While I agree, I have to wonder as a parent how much of this is related to the state of health care in the U.S.

Parents are pretty much discouraged by pediatricians and health insurers and hospitals from bringing in their child if they think something is wrong. Call the doctor just to ask a nurse whether or not you should be concerned, and that call might cost you the same as an office visit. The health insurance might not cover an office visit or testing if they deem it unnecessary. And the emergency room? Even more expensive. I can understand the need to keep unnecessary calls and visits from clogging up services for those who need them, but it's unfortunate that it also affects people who might genuinely need medical attention.

Kids get sick all the time because they pick things up at school from their friends. Most of the time, it's nothing serious that you need to visit the doctor's office for. Seeing your kid vomit and shiat buckets isn't an abnormal sight for any parent, so they might think twice before calling the doctor. I personally would be concerned if it lasted more than 24 hours because I know my child, but I can see how some parents might not know better and might not act as quickly because you literally do get penalized by our health care system for taking a sick child to the doctor.
2012-10-11 10:52:10 AM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: //The second to last thing you want to do for Enterohemorrhagic E.Coli diarrhea with no evidence of sepsis is give broad spectrum antibiotics. It can actually LEAD to Acute Hemolytic-Uremic Syndrome


Depends on the physician. I know more than a few that never embraced the whole HUS and antibiotics for e coli link.

And it doesn't change the fact that this kid should have been on IV fluids 12 hours before she was.
2012-10-11 10:41:03 AM
1 votes:
i614.photobucket.com

It was sadder when I thought it had just happened. Stupid mom probably has a replacement by now.
2012-10-11 10:34:16 AM
1 votes:
That woman is the stupidest biatch ever. My kid would have been in the ER just to have her hydration checked on diarrhea number three or so.

Parents who don't have insurance often think medical neglect is excusable. I have zero tolerance or sympathy for someone who can't find one of the zillion free or cheap programs designed to help their kids. They should go to jail.
2012-10-11 10:30:47 AM
1 votes:

Valiente: Pharmacy technician is certainly not "doctor", but does involve a better-than-average grade of medical knowledge, or so I thought. Why do I know not to touch e. coli patients and she didn't?


"Pharmacy Technician" can mean anything from someone with a two year Associates degree and national certification, to someone who's been taught on the job how to count pills and mix drugs under the eyes of a mom and pop pharmacist.
2012-10-11 10:30:26 AM
1 votes:

H31N0US: On a related note: if you have to carry your kid into the bathroom 15 times a day to take a runny shiat, maybe call a doctor?


Glad I'm not the only one who had this reaction. What kind of imbecile doesn't see that as an issue that requires some attention? There's a huge difference between normal diarrhea and shiatting water. The latter is a huge and obvious sign of a real issue. You think someone with even the nominal medical training required to be a pharmacy tech would at least know that.
2012-10-11 10:29:26 AM
1 votes:

mongbiohazard: It sounds like mom waiting 10 days, until the little girl was literally shiatting blood, before getting medical help for her might not have helped.


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Mom was pretty freaking clueless. So is the rehab center grandpa was in. These rare forms of E. coli are pretty nasty and highly contagious. Because of this patients should be placed in isolation and children under 14 not allowed to visit.

Parents: a hospital is no place for a child. They may look and smell clean, but they are all teeming with germs, even if the hospital follows effective infection control protocols.
2012-10-11 10:28:40 AM
1 votes:

H31N0US: That is one of the sadder stories I'll read today. On a related note: if you have to carry your kid into the bathroom 15 times a day to take a runny shiat, maybe call a doctor?

No need to wait for anal hemorrhaging.

Her parents will have to live with that negligence fr the rest of their lives.


The only way to tell between Enterohemorrhagic E.Coli induced Diarrhea and that from Salmonella, Shigella, or Viral is through laboratory studies. In addition, anyone who's had gastroenteritis or salmonella will tell you that 15 times is pretty much the norm.

Fresh blood is actually very common in pediatric diarrhea, and is usually of very little concern if it's a small amount. It's when it's frank and large fresh amounts, or ruddy, tarry, or frankly red colored that you should be concerned.

As long as she was taking fluids by mouth, and as long as she was able to stay hydrated with diarrhea as her ONLY complaint, her pediatrician would have probably said stay at home anyway, or MAYBE admitted her after an examination.

You use that word negligence and blame the parents, but what in reality happened is this child got unlucky and caught a very deadly bug.
2012-10-11 10:24:37 AM
1 votes:
FTA: She had 15 watery BM's and she apologized to her mother, because it was Mother's Day.
/that's some sad shiat right there.
2012-10-11 10:12:03 AM
1 votes:
2009 news, published in 2012.. Slow news day much?
2012-10-11 10:05:05 AM
1 votes:
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not sh*tting blood and vomiting blood from e. coli like his granddaughter.
 
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