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(BusinessWeek)   Grandpa's kisses taste like DEATH   (businessweek.com) divider line 120
    More: Scary, grandfather, berg Markets, Ohio Department of Health  
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9925 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Oct 2012 at 10:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-11 10:01:16 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, meet the rod shaped bacterium known as Escherichia Coli

upload.wikimedia.org

Do you know where this bacteria most often comes from?

img.webmd.com

So when you say Grandpa has a shiatty mouth, you're not just being funny.
 
2012-10-11 10:05:05 AM
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not sh*tting blood and vomiting blood from e. coli like his granddaughter.
 
2012-10-11 10:11:23 AM
Wow, that's going to make Thanksgiving and Christmas awkward.
 
2012-10-11 10:12:03 AM
2009 news, published in 2012.. Slow news day much?
 
2012-10-11 10:12:09 AM

Walker: I want to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not sh*tting blood and vomiting blood from e. coli like his granddaughter.


Dude...
 
2012-10-11 10:13:05 AM
It sounds like mom waiting 10 days, until the little girl was literally shiatting blood, before getting medical help for her might not have helped.
 
2012-10-11 10:13:36 AM
That is just maddeningly depressing.

I just... I don't know why this one bothers me so much.

Damn, it's dusty in here.
 
2012-10-11 10:15:07 AM
t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-11 10:15:13 AM
That is one of the sadder stories I'll read today. On a related note: if you have to carry your kid into the bathroom 15 times a day to take a runny shiat, maybe call a doctor?

No need to wait for anal hemorrhaging.

Her parents will have to live with that negligence fr the rest of their lives.
 
2012-10-11 10:16:14 AM

BigSnatch: Walker: I want to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not sh*tting blood and vomiting blood from e. coli like his granddaughter.

Dude...


8-year-olds dude.
 
2012-10-11 10:16:43 AM
Maybe not swap so much fluids with grandpa
 
2012-10-11 10:17:51 AM
www.tg-films.info 

/hot, like Granny S. Preston, esquire.
 
2012-10-11 10:23:03 AM

shifty lookin bleeder: [t1.gstatic.com image 288x175]


I laughed.

/Fabulous!
 
2012-10-11 10:24:02 AM
That is sad.
I read the headline in Ralph Wiggums voice though so I still giggled.
 
2012-10-11 10:24:37 AM
FTA: She had 15 watery BM's and she apologized to her mother, because it was Mother's Day.
/that's some sad shiat right there.
 
2012-10-11 10:27:36 AM

mongbiohazard: It sounds like mom waiting 10 days, until the little girl was literally shiatting blood, before getting medical help for her might not have helped.


I think we've found the problem:

"Nicole, a pharmacy technician, didn't know that food poisoning could be contagious...:"

Pharmacy technician is certainly not "doctor", but does involve a better-than-average grade of medical knowledge, or so I thought. Why do I know not to touch e. coli patients and she didn't?

That and the kid's name was "Abby Fenstermaker". That's a doom from which you can't recover.
 
2012-10-11 10:28:40 AM

H31N0US: That is one of the sadder stories I'll read today. On a related note: if you have to carry your kid into the bathroom 15 times a day to take a runny shiat, maybe call a doctor?

No need to wait for anal hemorrhaging.

Her parents will have to live with that negligence fr the rest of their lives.


The only way to tell between Enterohemorrhagic E.Coli induced Diarrhea and that from Salmonella, Shigella, or Viral is through laboratory studies. In addition, anyone who's had gastroenteritis or salmonella will tell you that 15 times is pretty much the norm.

Fresh blood is actually very common in pediatric diarrhea, and is usually of very little concern if it's a small amount. It's when it's frank and large fresh amounts, or ruddy, tarry, or frankly red colored that you should be concerned.

As long as she was taking fluids by mouth, and as long as she was able to stay hydrated with diarrhea as her ONLY complaint, her pediatrician would have probably said stay at home anyway, or MAYBE admitted her after an examination.

You use that word negligence and blame the parents, but what in reality happened is this child got unlucky and caught a very deadly bug.
 
2012-10-11 10:29:26 AM

mongbiohazard: It sounds like mom waiting 10 days, until the little girl was literally shiatting blood, before getting medical help for her might not have helped.


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Mom was pretty freaking clueless. So is the rehab center grandpa was in. These rare forms of E. coli are pretty nasty and highly contagious. Because of this patients should be placed in isolation and children under 14 not allowed to visit.

Parents: a hospital is no place for a child. They may look and smell clean, but they are all teeming with germs, even if the hospital follows effective infection control protocols.
 
2012-10-11 10:30:26 AM

H31N0US: On a related note: if you have to carry your kid into the bathroom 15 times a day to take a runny shiat, maybe call a doctor?


Glad I'm not the only one who had this reaction. What kind of imbecile doesn't see that as an issue that requires some attention? There's a huge difference between normal diarrhea and shiatting water. The latter is a huge and obvious sign of a real issue. You think someone with even the nominal medical training required to be a pharmacy tech would at least know that.
 
2012-10-11 10:30:47 AM

Valiente: Pharmacy technician is certainly not "doctor", but does involve a better-than-average grade of medical knowledge, or so I thought. Why do I know not to touch e. coli patients and she didn't?


"Pharmacy Technician" can mean anything from someone with a two year Associates degree and national certification, to someone who's been taught on the job how to count pills and mix drugs under the eyes of a mom and pop pharmacist.
 
2012-10-11 10:34:16 AM
That woman is the stupidest biatch ever. My kid would have been in the ER just to have her hydration checked on diarrhea number three or so.

Parents who don't have insurance often think medical neglect is excusable. I have zero tolerance or sympathy for someone who can't find one of the zillion free or cheap programs designed to help their kids. They should go to jail.
 
2012-10-11 10:34:42 AM

JackieRabbit: These rare forms of E. coli are pretty nasty and highly contagious. Because of this patients should be placed in isolation and children under 14 not allowed to visit.


THIS. At the very least the guy should have been in contact isolation. It boggles the mind how anyone could have been allowed in that room under the age of 16.

Litig8r: There's a huge difference between normal diarrhea and shiatting water. The latter is a huge and obvious sign of a real issue. You think someone with even the nominal medical training required to be a pharmacy tech would at least know that.


Pharmacy techs don't receive training in assessment and diagnosis of acute medical problems. In addition, I've had viral gastroenteritis so I can speak from experience - by the thirtyith time I went to the toilet in the first day, I was shiatting water. However, because I could keep PO fluids down and not hoark them back up, they would not admit me.

/the last thing you want to do for viral and bacterial diarrhea is to give medicines to slow or stop it from coming out.
//The second to last thing you want to do for Enterohemorrhagic E.Coli diarrhea with no evidence of sepsis is give broad spectrum antibiotics. It can actually LEAD to Acute Hemolytic-Uremic Syndrome
 
2012-10-11 10:38:20 AM

BronyMedic: You use that word negligence and blame the parents, but what in reality happened is this child got unlucky and caught a very deadly bug.


Whatever you say man. If my kid has issues like that for more than a day I am taking her in. Especially if I know she has had contact with an e coli patient recently.

You want to white knight these people, fine. But you are incorrect in doing so.
 
2012-10-11 10:39:52 AM
What, was she necking with grandpa or was it just a little peck on the lips?
 
2012-10-11 10:41:03 AM
i614.photobucket.com

It was sadder when I thought it had just happened. Stupid mom probably has a replacement by now.
 
2012-10-11 10:41:08 AM
Dust. Dust everywhere...
 
2012-10-11 10:42:41 AM

BronyMedic: Valiente: Pharmacy technician is certainly not "doctor", but does involve a better-than-average grade of medical knowledge, or so I thought. Why do I know not to touch e. coli patients and she didn't?

"Pharmacy Technician" can mean anything from someone with a two year Associates degree and national certification, to someone who's been taught on the job how to count pills and mix drugs under the eyes of a mom and pop pharmacist.


So it's a meaningless descriptor and she could have been a good parent by applying Magic Voudoun Oil?
 
2012-10-11 10:43:01 AM

NannyStatePark: That woman is the stupidest biatch ever. My kid would have been in the ER just to have her hydration checked on diarrhea number three or so.


And they would have probably tanked your 11 year old kid up on IV fluids, sent off a stool culture to cook, and sent your kid home until the culture came back. Only if your kid had really jacked up labs or poor urine output would they admit him or her. Then they would have called to check on the child, and MAYBE called them back in depending on if they had a fever or were feeling worse.

NannyStatePark: Parents who don't have insurance often think medical neglect is excusable. I have zero tolerance or sympathy for someone who can't find one of the zillion free or cheap programs designed to help their kids. They should go to jail.


Ah, I see. The "Fark you, I got mine" approach to dealing with legitimate healthcare issues. You do realize that there are many parents in the system who make TOO MUCH at their dead end, minimum wage jobs to get on the medicaid assistance programs without having a special needs child, right? And that it's not as easy as just applying?

Regardless of idealism, when you're struggling to even make ends meat every day, that weighs into whether you go for some diarrhea. It's just like the elderly making a choice between the medicine that keeps them stroking out and the food that keeps them alive.

Tenncare, for example, boots gorked kids with ventilators at home off their coverage list. The safety nets and systems established for children are broken.
 
2012-10-11 10:45:01 AM

BronyMedic: H31N0US: That is one of the sadder stories I'll read today. On a related note: if you have to carry your kid into the bathroom 15 times a day to take a runny shiat, maybe call a doctor?

No need to wait for anal hemorrhaging.

Her parents will have to live with that negligence fr the rest of their lives.

The only way to tell between Enterohemorrhagic E.Coli induced Diarrhea and that from Salmonella, Shigella, or Viral is through laboratory studies. In addition, anyone who's had gastroenteritis or salmonella will tell you that 15 times is pretty much the norm.

Fresh blood is actually very common in pediatric diarrhea, and is usually of very little concern if it's a small amount. It's when it's frank and large fresh amounts, or ruddy, tarry, or frankly red colored that you should be concerned.

As long as she was taking fluids by mouth, and as long as she was able to stay hydrated with diarrhea as her ONLY complaint, her pediatrician would have probably said stay at home anyway, or MAYBE admitted her after an examination.

You use that word negligence and blame the parents, but what in reality happened is this child got unlucky and caught a very deadly bug.


I'm going to disagree with you on this one. By the time a 7 year old has gone more than 8-10 times in a day, she's going to be passing rice water -- and that's an absolutely classic sign that you're not dealing with minor GE. And e coli stools (and c. diff for that matter) smell entirely different than your normal upset stomach stool. This kid had weakness and abdominal pain that was profound enough to preclude walking to the toilet on her own. I'm willing to bet any amount of money that if her folks had taken her temp she would have been throwing a hell of a fever, dry mouth, decreased urination, and wouldn't have passed a refill test. Her parents were negligent as hell. If they'd gotten her in before she started shedding submucosa or perforated bad enough to hemorrhage she'd likely be alive today.
 
2012-10-11 10:48:32 AM

H31N0US: Whatever you say man. If my kid has issues like that for more than a day I am taking her in. Especially if I know she has had contact with an e coli patient recently.


You're right. It's not like they send them home if they have somewhat normal vital signs and labs after tanking them up on IV fluids and informing the parents what to look for to come back, and then call them back two days later when the stool cultures come back positive for E.Coli with Enterohemorrhagic Toxin production.

Unless there's a rapid antibody test I don't know about.

Valiente: So it's a meaningless descriptor and she could have been a good parent by applying Magic Voudoun Oil?


It means you're putting too much faith in the training of someone who's "certification" doesn't even have a standardized level nationwide, and that anyone with on the job training can call themselves.

That's like calling a CNA a nurse, and expecting them to know the signs and symptoms of Enterohemorrhagic diarrhea.

H31N0US: You want to white knight these people, fine. But you are incorrect in doing so.


Stating blunt facts about life being cruel and not clean-cut is white knighting?

Man. I wish I lived in a world of idealism and conjecture.
 
2012-10-11 10:50:22 AM

Valiente: mongbiohazard: It sounds like mom waiting 10 days, until the little girl was literally shiatting blood, before getting medical help for her might not have helped.

I think we've found the problem:

"Nicole, a pharmacy technician, didn't know that food poisoning could be contagious...:"

Pharmacy technician is certainly not "doctor", but does involve a better-than-average grade of medical knowledge, or so I thought. Why do I know not to touch e. coli patients and she didn't?

That and the kid's name was "Abby Fenstermaker". That's a doom from which you can't recover.


THIS!!!

Pharmacy Tech? I don't even think you need a HS Diploma/GED to become a phamacy tech!

Oh, Fenstermaker = Windowmaker in english....
 
2012-10-11 10:52:06 AM
we were told 5 days is normal. Anything over that needs to be seen.

She waited 10....

4 kids here... no freaking way I would wait 10 especially if they are just lying in bed.. lying in bed in there in 2 days
 
2012-10-11 10:52:10 AM

BronyMedic: //The second to last thing you want to do for Enterohemorrhagic E.Coli diarrhea with no evidence of sepsis is give broad spectrum antibiotics. It can actually LEAD to Acute Hemolytic-Uremic Syndrome


Depends on the physician. I know more than a few that never embraced the whole HUS and antibiotics for e coli link.

And it doesn't change the fact that this kid should have been on IV fluids 12 hours before she was.
 
2012-10-11 10:53:11 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-11 10:55:48 AM

mongbiohazard: It sounds like mom waiting 10 days, until the little girl was literally shiatting blood, before getting medical help for her might not have helped.


While I agree, I have to wonder as a parent how much of this is related to the state of health care in the U.S.

Parents are pretty much discouraged by pediatricians and health insurers and hospitals from bringing in their child if they think something is wrong. Call the doctor just to ask a nurse whether or not you should be concerned, and that call might cost you the same as an office visit. The health insurance might not cover an office visit or testing if they deem it unnecessary. And the emergency room? Even more expensive. I can understand the need to keep unnecessary calls and visits from clogging up services for those who need them, but it's unfortunate that it also affects people who might genuinely need medical attention.

Kids get sick all the time because they pick things up at school from their friends. Most of the time, it's nothing serious that you need to visit the doctor's office for. Seeing your kid vomit and shiat buckets isn't an abnormal sight for any parent, so they might think twice before calling the doctor. I personally would be concerned if it lasted more than 24 hours because I know my child, but I can see how some parents might not know better and might not act as quickly because you literally do get penalized by our health care system for taking a sick child to the doctor.
 
2012-10-11 10:58:57 AM

Litig8r: I'm going to disagree with you on this one.


You're misunderstanding what I'm pointing out here. This is the mentality she's going to have: It's only diarrhea with a little blood in it. They're just going to charge me 1500 dollars for an ER visit, and send me home. I can't afford that.

You're not dealing with someone who's trained to recognize the signs and symptoms of a potentially deadly GI infection. You're dealing with someone who, MAYBE, went to school anywhere between 5 months and a year and a half to learn how to accurately put pills inside of a bottle without giving someone insulin when they were prescribed albuterol.

PharmTechs do not do direct patient care. In some states, they can't even talk to a patient directly about their medications. All they do is act as the assistants to the PharmD. They're like CNAs to Registered Nurses.

Litig8r: By the time a 7 year old has gone more than 8-10 times in a day, she's going to be passing rice water -- and that's an absolutely classic sign that you're not dealing with minor GE.


I'm going to have to disagree with you. I had viral GE, and my symptoms were blood-tinged rice water diarrhea and abdominal cramping.

I'm not saying I would ever discourage someone from taking their kid to the ER if they had it. I'm saying it's hard for me to exclusively blame the parent for the death of her child, especially given all the factors that went down here.

Litig8r: This kid had weakness and abdominal pain that was profound enough to preclude walking to the toilet on her own. I'm willing to bet any amount of money that if her folks had taken her temp she would have been throwing a hell of a fever, dry mouth, decreased urination, and wouldn't have passed a refill test. Her parents were negligent as hell.


Damn. Guess I should have RFTA.

applejack.ponychan.net

If she was like that, and it wasn't just diarrhea, then yeah. They deserve a smack upside the head.

Litig8r: If they'd gotten her in before she started shedding submucosa or perforated bad enough to hemorrhage she'd likely be alive today.


Considering the fatality rate for EHEC is 50% or more, I'd say more of half and half.
 
2012-10-11 11:01:16 AM
Holy shiat! Oh wait, that didn't come out right. I mean....! Doh.
 
2012-10-11 11:06:11 AM

BronyMedic: Valiente: Pharmacy technician is certainly not "doctor", but does involve a better-than-average grade of medical knowledge, or so I thought. Why do I know not to touch e. coli patients and she didn't?

"Pharmacy Technician" can mean anything from someone with a two year Associates degree and national certification, to someone who's been taught on the job how to count pills and mix drugs under the eyes of a mom and pop pharmacist.


My MIL is a nurse, and has worked with a wide range of specialist doctors during her career.

She has at times suggested:
- Potentially dangerous levels of zinc
- Magnets placed in shoes
- Magnetic/Three-Metal Braclets
- Juice 'Cleanses'/Fasts
- Enemas
- Acupuncture
- Chiropractic Realignment

She did not come up with these by herself, either - these are coming from her interacting with doctors who - for example - won't go golfing without their energy bracelet. Yes, there are - to hear my MIL talk about it, at least - there are doctors who strongly believe in these things.

Not every doctor is doing research, performing scientific study, or even necessarily intelligent. Whole segments can probably get by just by nodding their head when the pharma reps come in, and keeping loose mental track of whether a drug appears to work or not, and a list of specialists to recommend a patient to.

Even if they are a degreed, board-certified muckity-muck, they can still be total morons when it comes to the things that they have been expected to be masters of.
 
2012-10-11 11:09:11 AM
Events in this article are waaay past their expiration date.
 
2012-10-11 11:10:56 AM

attention span of a retarded fruit fly: we were told 5 days is normal. Anything over that needs to be seen.

She waited 10....

4 kids here... no freaking way I would wait 10 especially if they are just lying in bed.. lying in bed in there in 2 days


Just to clarify for some folks...

FTA: Girl showed symptoms on May 7, was rushed to the hospital on May 11, and died on May 17.

It was 10 days before she DIED, not 10 days before her parents sought medical attention. Her parents rushed her to the hospital on the morning of the FOURTH day. By your own comment, you'd have been in the same boat as this mother.
 
2012-10-11 11:11:31 AM
Where does this 'waited 10 days' come from? The article didn't come with a neat time line, but...

May 7, girl has a tummy ache.

There might or might not be some diarhea between May 7 and 10.

May 10 (Mothers day, 2009) girl is not getting off the couch and needs to be carried for several bowel movements. This is the point I would say immediate medical care would be called for.

May 11, she's dead.

So at most, there's an 18 hour window of negligence here. Maybe, if the parents had taken immediate action on the morning of the 10th, her life could have been saved, we'll never know. But nothing like this 10 days I see being bandied about.
 
2012-10-11 11:12:21 AM

quietwalker: My MIL is a nurse, and has worked with a wide range of specialist doctors during her career.

She has at times suggested:
- Potentially dangerous levels of zinc
- Magnets placed in shoes
- Magnetic/Three-Metal Braclets
- Juice 'Cleanses'/Fasts
- Enemas
- Acupuncture
- Chiropractic Realignment

She did not come up with these by herself, either - these are coming from her interacting with doctors who - for example - won't go golfing without their energy bracelet. Yes, there are - to hear my MIL talk about it, at least - there are doctors who strongly believe in these things.


And the scary thing is that their MD license gives them the ability to promote any of these things they want to. Medical Boards and licensing bodies feel that negligence and malpractice are best handled as employer and civil matters, and they have a gentlemen's agreement with doctors to not intervene unless laws are broken.

So, you can lose your medical license for drug diversion, but not from killing people by telling them to drink herb mixtures and enemas instead of getting Chemotherapy for their cancer.

quietwalker: Not every doctor is doing research, performing scientific study, or even necessarily intelligent. Whole segments can probably get by just by nodding their head when the pharma reps come in, and keeping loose mental track of whether a drug appears to work or not, and a list of specialists to recommend a patient to.

Even if they are a degreed, board-certified muckity-muck, they can still be total morons when it comes to the things that they have been expected to be masters of.


You can find numerous websites about bad behavior by supposedly educated people who we trust with our lives.
 
2012-10-11 11:13:03 AM

quietwalker: BronyMedic: Valiente: Pharmacy technician is certainly not "doctor", but does involve a better-than-average grade of medical knowledge, or so I thought. Why do I know not to touch e. coli patients and she didn't?

"Pharmacy Technician" can mean anything from someone with a two year Associates degree and national certification, to someone who's been taught on the job how to count pills and mix drugs under the eyes of a mom and pop pharmacist.

My MIL is a nurse, and has worked with a wide range of specialist doctors during her career.

She has at times suggested:
- Potentially dangerous levels of zinc
- Magnets placed in shoes
- Magnetic/Three-Metal Braclets
- Juice 'Cleanses'/Fasts
- Enemas
- Acupuncture
- Chiropractic Realignment

She did not come up with these by herself, either - these are coming from her interacting with doctors who - for example - won't go golfing without their energy bracelet. Yes, there are - to hear my MIL talk about it, at least - there are doctors who strongly believe in these things.

Not every doctor is doing research, performing scientific study, or even necessarily intelligent. Whole segments can probably get by just by nodding their head when the pharma reps come in, and keeping loose mental track of whether a drug appears to work or not, and a list of specialists to recommend a patient to.

Even if they are a degreed, board-certified muckity-muck, they can still be total morons when it comes to the things that they have been expected to be masters of.


So... you reached this conclusion with no first hand knowledge? The evidence coming from your dumb-ass MIL?

All respects, but in this litigious world, I don't know any doctor that would recommend any of that crap you mention.
 
2012-10-11 11:14:14 AM

rashkae: Where does this 'waited 10 days' come from? The article didn't come with a neat time line, but...

May 7, girl has a tummy ache.

There might or might not be some diarhea between May 7 and 10.

May 10 (Mothers day, 2009) girl is not getting off the couch and needs to be carried for several bowel movements. This is the point I would say immediate medical care would be called for.

May 11, she's dead.

So at most, there's an 18 hour window of negligence here. Maybe, if the parents had taken immediate action on the morning of the 10th, her life could have been saved, we'll never know. But nothing like this 10 days I see being bandied about.


Oh, good. Someone else noticed that, although it says she died on the 17th, not the 11th. She was rushed to the hospital on the 11th.
 
2012-10-11 11:14:36 AM
Tragic death of a child aside, I can't stand news articles that are written like stories. Just give me the facts, without trying to emotionalise it. And what the fark happened to Grandad? Did he make it? Why it took the mother so long to get her daughter medical treatment is anyone's guess, no way would I be waiting 10 days if my daughter was that ill,
 
2012-10-11 11:17:34 AM

Smoky Dragon Dish: All respects, but in this litigious world, I don't know any doctor that would recommend any of that crap you mention.


Oh boy, are you in for a surprise.

It's not only common, but those quacks use their connections to suppress their critics by any means possible. Enter the shameful world of the Winkler County Nurse Trial.
 
2012-10-11 11:18:45 AM

BronyMedic: They deserve a smack upside the head.


I will interpret this as an admission that I was right.

I wonder who they sued to make themselves feel better.
 
2012-10-11 11:20:56 AM

binnster: Why it took the mother so long to get her daughter medical treatment is anyone's guess, no way would I be waiting 10 days if my daughter was that ill,


Ok, slight retraction as I see it was more like 4 days, but still, I'd probably be in the doctor's waiting room by day 2, possibly sooner if I already had one relative in hospital dying of the shiats.
 
2012-10-11 11:21:01 AM

Smoky Dragon Dish:

All respects, but in this litigious world, I don't know any doctor that would recommend any of that crap you mention.


I can name at least three off the top of my head, and both of my parents see them. She doesn't live in California or New York, either. Unfortunately, we've come to a point where a patient pretty much diagnoses and treats himself. If the patient's current doctor doesn't agree with his philosophy, he can probably find one who will.
 
2012-10-11 11:21:33 AM

BronyMedic: NannyStatePark: That woman is the stupidest biatch ever. My kid would have been in the ER just to have her hydration checked on diarrhea number three or so.

And they would have probably tanked your 11 year old kid up on IV fluids, sent off a stool culture to cook, and sent your kid home until the culture came back. Only if your kid had really jacked up labs or poor urine output would they admit him or her. Then they would have called to check on the child, and MAYBE called them back in depending on if they had a fever or were feeling worse.

NannyStatePark: Parents who don't have insurance often think medical neglect is excusable. I have zero tolerance or sympathy for someone who can't find one of the zillion free or cheap programs designed to help their kids. They should go to jail.

Ah, I see. The "Fark you, I got mine" approach to dealing with legitimate healthcare issues. You do realize that there are many parents in the system who make TOO MUCH at their dead end, minimum wage jobs to get on the medicaid assistance programs without having a special needs child, right? And that it's not as easy as just applying?

Regardless of idealism, when you're struggling to even make ends meat every day, that weighs into whether you go for some diarrhea. It's just like the elderly making a choice between the medicine that keeps them stroking out and the food that keeps them alive.

Tenncare, for example, boots gorked kids with ventilators at home off their coverage list. The safety nets and systems established for children are broken.


Wow, I say this as a woman who spent her childhood on welfare. I've worked as an adult with people on public assistance. Responsibility doesn't care about income.

If you think this chick is blameless, fine. As a mother I don't. I don't feel the need to get personal or proclaim my psychic powers tell me what you believe about politics. I used to think you were reasonable.
 
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