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(Newsarama)   Ten "grim and gritty" superhero reboots, none of which really seemed to work   (newsarama.com ) divider line
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4833 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Oct 2012 at 11:21 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-11 10:16:48 AM  
"Gritty" has played out beyond it's logical extreme and into the absurd.
 
2012-10-11 10:16:59 AM  
Another NuDC article?

Anyway, the majority of these weren't reboots, but storylines with a set ending. Dark Flash lasted 7 issues. Azrael as Batman was done specifically to show how badly a grim and gritty Batman would suck, and always had a planned ending. IIRC, John Walker as Captain America was something similar.

As for Parallax... before that, almost no one gave a damn about Hal Jordan, and the character sucked. Still does, but fanboys would and do read feces smeared on paper by Geoff Johns, so what can you do?
 
2012-10-11 11:23:34 AM  
Missing: Batman Begins.
 
2012-10-11 11:25:54 AM  
I thought subby said gritty "Robots" that didn't work.

/and here I was ready for a Heavygear thread...
 
2012-10-11 11:32:45 AM  

sprawl15: Missing: Batman Begins.


So you're the one...
 
2012-10-11 11:33:23 AM  
Gritty and grim might not work with the target audience of most superhero movies/comics.
 
2012-10-11 11:34:45 AM  
IIRC wasn't the Thor makeover due in part to the whole "The Crossing" storyline involving The Avengers? Yeah...wasn't that great as is. As a matter of fact many of the new costumes sucked...save for Wanda's.
 
2012-10-11 11:46:58 AM  
Dark Flash?
Look. It doesn't matter HOW dark it is when you flash someone, they still slap a pair of cuffs on you and add you to the registry.

Sigh...
 
2012-10-11 11:47:23 AM  
Some people prefer from and gritty. Just like some liked 1970s Time Square over the current one. Most realize garbage when they see it.

From and grit can work on some heroes. But as the 1990s wave of new heroes showed, most sucked and are mocked relentlessly.
 
2012-10-11 12:00:42 PM  
Yeah, I don't know about the others, but the Captain America No More storyline was never intended as a reboot. John Walker was always planned to be a temporary (government-sponsored) Cap, to contrast against the idealistic Steve Rogers. It's kind of a pity that later takes on Captain America kind of undid the overall theme of the story, which is that when faced with a choice between serving the country or serving the government, Steve chose the country. Later stories drew him back into the "soldier" role, which he had spent a long time growing out of.
 
2012-10-11 12:24:02 PM  
Does anyone really want a grim and gritty Spidey?
 
2012-10-11 12:31:00 PM  

texdent: Does anyone really want a grim and gritty Spidey?


In the grim reboot, his last name changes from Parker to North.
 
2012-10-11 12:34:04 PM  
Of course a Grim 'n' Gritty Spidey doesn't work. He hand-washes his costume as soon as he gets home.
 
2012-10-11 12:40:58 PM  
Hey guys,
images.darkhorse.com
what's going on in here?
 
2012-10-11 12:46:54 PM  
Anything would've worked for Aquaman, ANYTHING.
 
2012-10-11 12:47:23 PM  
This list includes a bunch that were never meant to last (Batman, Capatin America) and leaves out the 90s Dr. Fate?

Anyways, how about one that worked?

i148.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-11 01:01:20 PM  
I hadn't read #2, what the flying fark?!
 
2012-10-11 01:07:22 PM  

corronchilejano: I hadn't read #2, what the flying fark?!


It was truly a WTF moment. The 'wonder twins' turned out to be Calculator's kids or something.
 
2012-10-11 01:17:06 PM  

MonkeyAngst: Yeah, I don't know about the others, but the Captain America No More storyline was never intended as a reboot. John Walker was always planned to be a temporary (government-sponsored) Cap, to contrast against the idealistic Steve Rogers. It's kind of a pity that later takes on Captain America kind of undid the overall theme of the story, which is that when faced with a choice between serving the country or serving the government, Steve chose the country. Later stories drew him back into the "soldier" role, which he had spent a long time growing out of.


Civil War put Cap in that role. He was willing to defy the government to uphold the American ideal.

Of course, that got him arrested, assassinated, and mocked because he had never been on myspace or at a NASCAR race, so therefore he was out of touch with REAL AMERICA.
 
2012-10-11 01:26:50 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: MonkeyAngst: Yeah, I don't know about the others, but the Captain America No More storyline was never intended as a reboot. John Walker was always planned to be a temporary (government-sponsored) Cap, to contrast against the idealistic Steve Rogers. It's kind of a pity that later takes on Captain America kind of undid the overall theme of the story, which is that when faced with a choice between serving the country or serving the government, Steve chose the country. Later stories drew him back into the "soldier" role, which he had spent a long time growing out of.

Civil War put Cap in that role. He was willing to defy the government to uphold the American ideal.

Of course, that got him arrested, assassinated, and mocked because he had never been on myspace or at a NASCAR race, so therefore he was out of touch with REAL AMERICA.


Can we all just agree that "Civil War" was one massive clusterfark that had no business being written?
 
2012-10-11 01:32:36 PM  

Rwa2play: FirstNationalBastard: MonkeyAngst: Yeah, I don't know about the others, but the Captain America No More storyline was never intended as a reboot. John Walker was always planned to be a temporary (government-sponsored) Cap, to contrast against the idealistic Steve Rogers. It's kind of a pity that later takes on Captain America kind of undid the overall theme of the story, which is that when faced with a choice between serving the country or serving the government, Steve chose the country. Later stories drew him back into the "soldier" role, which he had spent a long time growing out of.

Civil War put Cap in that role. He was willing to defy the government to uphold the American ideal.

Of course, that got him arrested, assassinated, and mocked because he had never been on myspace or at a NASCAR race, so therefore he was out of touch with REAL AMERICA.

Can we all just agree that "Civil War" was one massive clusterfark that had no business being written?


Or at least the bit with Sally Floyd telling Cap all that crap.
 
2012-10-11 01:41:24 PM  

texdent: Rwa2play: FirstNationalBastard: MonkeyAngst: Yeah, I don't know about the others, but the Captain America No More storyline was never intended as a reboot. John Walker was always planned to be a temporary (government-sponsored) Cap, to contrast against the idealistic Steve Rogers. It's kind of a pity that later takes on Captain America kind of undid the overall theme of the story, which is that when faced with a choice between serving the country or serving the government, Steve chose the country. Later stories drew him back into the "soldier" role, which he had spent a long time growing out of.

Civil War put Cap in that role. He was willing to defy the government to uphold the American ideal.

Of course, that got him arrested, assassinated, and mocked because he had never been on myspace or at a NASCAR race, so therefore he was out of touch with REAL AMERICA.

Can we all just agree that "Civil War" was one massive clusterfark that had no business being written?

Or at least the bit with Sally Floyd telling Cap all that crap.


It was realistic, though.

If there were a real Captain America, and he stood up for the American Way instead of believing what the government was doing was right, half the population would call him a traitor and tell him he wasn't a REAL AMERICAN.

Or, to put it bluntly, Fox News and Rush would want his head.
 
2012-10-11 01:51:07 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Or, to put it bluntly, Fox News and Rush would want his head.


For some reason, I'm seeing Rush in Dom's "Captain USA" getup.
 
2012-10-11 02:44:59 PM  
Azbat... uhg, dont even get me started on that.

/yo dawg, we heard you like wolverine...
 
2012-10-11 03:02:47 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: texdent: Rwa2play: FirstNationalBastard: MonkeyAngst: Yeah, I don't know about the others, but the Captain America No More storyline was never intended as a reboot. John Walker was always planned to be a temporary (government-sponsored) Cap, to contrast against the idealistic Steve Rogers. It's kind of a pity that later takes on Captain America kind of undid the overall theme of the story, which is that when faced with a choice between serving the country or serving the government, Steve chose the country. Later stories drew him back into the "soldier" role, which he had spent a long time growing out of.

Civil War put Cap in that role. He was willing to defy the government to uphold the American ideal.

Of course, that got him arrested, assassinated, and mocked because he had never been on myspace or at a NASCAR race, so therefore he was out of touch with REAL AMERICA.

Can we all just agree that "Civil War" was one massive clusterfark that had no business being written?

Or at least the bit with Sally Floyd telling Cap all that crap.

It was realistic, though.

If there were a real Captain America, and he stood up for the American Way instead of believing what the government was doing was right, half the population would call him a traitor and tell him he wasn't a REAL AMERICAN.


Thing is this was already covered in the "Captain America...No More" story.

Or, to put it bluntly, Fox News and Rush would want his head.

Pretty much w/ Fox News having stories about him being an undercover commie since the 1920s.
 
2012-10-11 03:05:43 PM  
I'm actually happy that they're returning Spider-Man to his original black & red costume. Yes, it was BLACK and red, not blue & red. The blue in the original was meant to be highlights in the black. Over time, it just became blue & red (around ASM #33, I believe).

But the first costume? The one from Amazing Fantasy #15? That was meant to be black & red.

Erik Larsen drew him as black & red for a while (the mid-300s) but they didn't stick with it, but Marvel Now! is bringing back the black instead of blue.

Oddly, they're giving him tabi boots, too. I can't imagine why.
 
2012-10-11 03:11:51 PM  

texdent: Does anyone really want a grim and gritty Spidey?


I suspect he won't be "grim and gritty", but will, instead, change tactics because his enemies are getting deadlier and more powerful. The stakes have been raising for him for a while, and it seems like they're going for an identity reveal again... One that will stick this time... Leaving him with the need to protect himself and his loved ones aggressively.

Last time, he got Doctor Strange and Reed Richards to fix things and hide his identity, but that protection has ended and anything he does now to reveal himself will last... and Strange can't hide it again. That was a one-time thing.

He's already been revealed as the guy behind Spider-Man's technology. It won't take much of a push to go further.

But grim and gritty? No. Perhaps "slightly more serious about getting the job done" and "more vigilant when it comes to dealing with threats to his family", but not gritty. Marvel knows that taking the jokey nature away from Spider-Man would be exceptionally damaging to the character. They already went down that path with JMS, and they had to retcon the shiat out of it to fix all of that. They won't make Pete an angry, vengeful anti-hero. They'll make him step up and act like the A-class hero he is.

And the cool thing is, they're going to do it via Pete's technology and science skills. He's one hell of an inventor, and Marvel is really embracing that aspect of the character now.
 
2012-10-11 03:54:49 PM  
I think this list is a little off. Azrael, as mentioned above was meant to be limited and show that the Bruce Wayne Batman "code" was better than the alternative of Azrael. The captain america Rogers/Walker storyline isn't bad and is a story arc to show what really made the Rogers Cap the "real" Cap. The aquaman "reboot" was okay, but was done better in the JL animated series. Reign of the Supermen was fun, but I don't think anybody really thought it was a reboot, just a placeholder until the real Kal-el came back. The rest of the list is about right though.
 
2012-10-11 05:59:19 PM  
Azbat and the Superclones weren't reboots, they were shameless cash grabs by DC.
 
2012-10-12 06:55:54 AM  
Heh, I'm reminded of the mess that was Marvel's "Ravage 2099" and the title character's ability to repeatedly be subject to nonsensical metamorphoses (perhaps whenever a writer couldn't think of anything interesting to do with him in his current form). Grim and gritty makeover after grim and gritty makeover, after grim and gritty makeover --every few issues!

He went from being some pompous rich guy, to a trash-wearing, lasergun-blasting outlaw, to an irradiated laserfist-blasting mutant, to some sort of wildebeest-man, to an even more 'roided-out wildebeest-man, to who knows what because at some point even I finally gave up and stopped buying the damn comic.

The wildebeest thing was (I shiat you not) supposed to be some sort of atavistic reversion to some early hominid state... you know, the one where proto-humans had four giant horns jutting out of their heads? (Homo quadraceratops?)


(...although now that I think of it: To be fair, as far as contrafactual human ancestry in SF goes, I give stuff like Larry Niven's Pak Protectors a very generous suspension-of-disbelief allowance... but at least that was started before hominid ancestry was as thoroughly re-confirmed through genetic analysis as it has been in recent decades (and the fossil record filled in yet further: Lucy, Turkana Boy, etc.), and besides, in Niven's case it was actually successful in providing a grounding for solid stories.)
 
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