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(BBC)   As God is my witness, I thought we could fly through Turkey   ( ) divider line
    More: Scary, passenger planes, Turkey, mortar fire, Airbus A320, Politics of Turkey, Syrians, biological weapons, Ankara  
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14772 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Oct 2012 at 8:35 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2012-10-10 10:33:05 PM  
I hope warmonger Mitt doesn't get involved.
2012-10-10 10:44:19 PM  

Trashy: Fine Television..

Still one of the funniest episodes of TV ever.
2012-10-10 11:09:06 PM  

meyerkev: "cross-border shelling"

Wait what? Syria is shooting into Turkey? Are they trying to piss Turkey off?

To be fair, I'd bet Turkey's "accidentally" letting a bunch of weapons get through their border, probably including many that totally aren't *wink* from them and other NATO members by way of arms dealer proxies (see: Lord of War). Plus they're openly aiding the rebels in other ways. So their acting surprised or outraged about this is a bit like when we put MRBMs in Turkey then got all indignant when the Soviets did the same thing in Cuba, or like when we send drones in to Pakistan to pursue our enemies--Syria's not in as favorably a position to do things like that, but it's pretty much the same thing.

Not that the Syrians leaders aren't a bunch of assholes, or that pissing off Turkey isn't a bad idea, or that it wasn't the Syrians who shiat the bed to begin with and caused all of this, but they're kind of stuck between risking direct war with Turkey and continuing to let weapons and aid through the border unfettered.

When this gets "fun" is when Russia decides it's worth sending aircraft or other direct aid to protect a friendly port on the Mediterranean and a decades-long ally--one of only a handful that they still have.

/ Anyone else ever play Shadow President?
// Russia will nuke your ass over Syria in that game.
2012-10-10 11:18:33 PM  

meyerkev: "cross-border shelling"

Wait what? Syria is shooting into Turkey? Are they trying to piss Turkey off?

So yer saying it's a turkey shoot?
2012-10-10 11:32:32 PM  
Furiously clapping Orson Welles.
2012-10-10 11:33:25 PM  

timharrod: Furiously fapping Orson Welles.

2012-10-10 11:48:48 PM  
Great headline Subby!

Now if the faerkweeds in charge would kindly not start more wars things would be cool.
2012-10-11 12:35:50 AM  

Luthien's Tempest: I get the sneaking suspicion we'll be seeing a lot of this in the near future.

Both headlines with this particular joke and Turkey forcing planes between Russia and Syria out of the sky to be searched for weaponry, etc.

Nail clippers and bottled water I bet. farking Freedom haters.
2012-10-11 01:00:07 AM  
2012-10-11 01:00:39 AM
2012-10-11 01:03:21 AM  
I would like to give Subby a job.

\not enough love for a brilliant headline.
2012-10-11 02:39:29 AM  
I would think that, regardless of the existence of a state of war or not, flying THROUGH Turkey would be a mistake, at least for any pilot crazy enough to try it; since flying through the ground has never proven to be possible.
2012-10-11 05:14:47 AM  

jimmyjackfunk: how long before Russia steps in and says Turkey is unlawfully detaining Russian citizens?

I think this is the reason for the carefully worded diplomatic statement in TFA. The Turks emphasized that the plane was in obvious violation of the rules of civil aviation. Presumably, international agreements allow civilian air traffic to overpass most nations, but disguising military missions as civilian transport would be a violation of those agreements and possibly a major provocation as well. The case of KAL 007 (civilian passenger jet shot down for being in Soviet airspace) shows that some nations can take this seriously enough to blow people away for it and get away with it.

The interesting thing to me is that the Turks knew the flight wasn't legitimate. They had to have known about this before the flight took off in Russia, and known about it with quite a lot of certainty considering the consequences had they been wrong. Perhaps I underestimate the competence of the Turkish intelligence service but one suspects that somebody who watches the Russians very closely told the Turks about this flight and persuaded them to force it down when the easy thing would have been to pretend to know nothing about it rather than provoke the Russians.

It would be nice to know how the Turks reckon their interests in the Syrian misery. The cynical guess would be that they stand to gain money and favors, especially from the EU whom they've been striving to build a closer relationship with. Turkey is perhaps the best option among the nations that can serve as proxies in international efforts to support the rebels, and God knows how much money they're charging for that service.
2012-10-11 05:23:38 AM  

Indubitably: Notabunny: Harry_Seldon: More Fever. Less Nessman.


It's a tumor or growth in my nose.

It needs to be extracted, but as a growth, I've grown to love it.

To cut it out requires violence, and I abhor violence mostly.

My face has grown to love it.

Cyber-poet out.

2012-10-11 05:56:05 AM  
TFA: Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told state-run television.

"We are determined to control weapons transfers to a regime that carries out such brutal massacres against civilians,"

Turky getting all OUTRAGE about human rights? Ironic tag on holiday in Egypt?
2012-10-11 06:41:20 AM  

uttertosh: TFA: Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told state-run television.

"We are determined to control weapons transfers to a regime that carries out such brutal massacres against civilians,"

Turky getting all OUTRAGE about human rights? Ironic tag on holiday in Egypt?

They didn't claim to be outraged about "human rights" violations in general, but the massacre of civilians specifically. Bullshiat, certainly, as a real motivation for their acts, but then again it's pretty much standard to be mighty selective in choosing the atrocities that justify policies already arrived upon and disregard the rest. You cold find examples of this among wealthy nations that boast of their commitment to human rights.

Turkey does have a recent record of shooting civilians, but those happen to be hard-headed separatists who take to guerrilla warfare when the mood seizes them. Countries in which such people would be treated mercifully are pretty few in this world. It also seems likely that if you met them you wouldn't find their philosophy any more more compassionate than the Turks'.
2012-10-11 07:39:03 AM  
Military communications devices were reportedly confiscated before the plane was allowed to leave hours later

So in other words, they took these:
2012-10-11 08:59:17 AM  
Good god, those devices were SWITCHED ON! The pilots may have been forced to land the plane to save the lives of the passengers, let alone save themselves. Don't you know, all electronic devices must be switched off for takeoff?

/bemoan the sorry state of copyediting at the BBC
//doesn't anyone check this crap before pushing the Publish button over there?
///plane plane - it's a special woodworking flight.
2012-10-11 10:28:23 AM  
So what's the end game on all of this? Is Russia ever going to stop supporting the regime in Syria? It seems like the rest of the world is basically sitting on their hands and letting them have their own private civil war, but I don't see that situation lasting forever. With the Russian veto on the Security Council I don't think you'd ever see coordinated UN action like in Libya, but something is going to be done eventually, right?

I think ideally I'd like to see a fundamental shift in the way the Arab League does business with the Arab Spring countries taking a leadership role in bringing pressure to bear on the autocratic regimes left in the region. That's probably a longer-term goal, however, since Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, et al need to get their own countries reformed before they can start influencing others. But hell, it only took Venezuela what, a decade? after Chavez's new constitution before they were the powerhouse of South/Central America. I mean, the whole Bolivarian Alliance thing has happened quite quickly - founded less than a decade ago, and he's picked up Ecuador, Cuba, Bolivia, and Nicaragua, four of the larger South/Central American countries.

Of course, the trick is replacing what was there before with something that is LESS repressive. Y'know, human rights, basic freedoms, less corruption, economic equality - that sort of thing. We'll never force them to do it, realistically, but maybe they'll be able to do it themselves.

/would personally prefer we stay the hell out of it
//never happen with Iraq on one side and Israel on the other
2012-10-11 08:04:26 PM

2012-10-12 06:41:52 PM  

RealAmericanHero: Indubitably: However, I prefer pussy, so if you sport dick, you'll have to sport it elsewhere. I roll labia...

Ha... you think I was asking permission

Well, that'd be rape, sir.

And rape is unacceptable; but you already knew that, right?

It's a crime, punishable by death in the Hew New World.

In modern times, it's violence at a minimum, and I caught your drift the first time, Einstein...

In fictional times, did you catch mine?

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