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(Palm Beach Post)   Problem: red light cameras can't read Florida license plates. Solution: make everyone get new plates   (palmbeachpost.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, red light cameras, Department of Highways, Florida Department of Highway Safety, private money, De Land  
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10837 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Oct 2012 at 10:13 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



99 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-10-10 08:28:44 PM  
Yeah, I read about this. We can spend $31 mill to change the license plates on every car so that cops can easier see them to give more tickets but the speed rail that was already paid for by the fed and would easily pay for itself and create $30,000 jobs would have been a waste. Thanks, Gov. Scott. Teabagger prick.
 
2012-10-10 08:36:45 PM  
Then remove the red light cameras the next year.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-10 08:40:14 PM  
We only have camera enforcement for electronic toll violations in Massachusetts. Toll authorities discovered the state issued duplicate license plate numbers and the computer had to also check whether it was a commercial or passenger plate and make other surprising distinctions. As they discover oddities they teach the computer to try to do the right thing. There are no plans to reissue plates because (1) ticketing the wrong person is not perceived as a serious problem, (2) people here are really really attached to old plates and taking away faded green status symbols could easily tip a close election.
 
2012-10-10 09:51:14 PM  
"No pendulous oranges or dangling Florida peninsulas getting in the way of the money shot."

What's this guy's Fark handle?
 
2012-10-10 09:55:19 PM  
That's one thing they didn't try on Mythbusters...
 
2012-10-10 10:20:15 PM  
Governor Voldemart can kiss my ass.
 
2012-10-10 10:22:44 PM  
Even the cameras in Florida can't read!
 
2012-10-10 10:29:13 PM  
So which genius decided to buy all those cameras without knowing if they'd actually work on Florida plates? Do these cameras have no money-back guarantee from the manufacturer?
 
2012-10-10 10:30:52 PM  

Mugato: Yeah, I read about this. We can spend $31 mill to change the license plates on every car so that cops can easier see them to give more tickets but the speed rail that was already paid for by the fed and would easily pay for itself and create $30,000 jobs would have been a waste. Thanks, Gov. Scott. Teabagger prick.


Farking THIS!!!


dstanley: "No pendulous oranges or dangling Florida peninsulas getting in the way of the money shot."

What's this guy's Fark handle?


Typically I can't stand Cerabino, but for once the guy has a point on the whole matter.
 
2012-10-10 10:33:47 PM  
One would think that would be a major portion of the testing stage.
 
2012-10-10 10:39:05 PM  
Why do I feel no compassion for people in that big a rush to get nowhere?
 
2012-10-10 10:39:57 PM  

WordyGrrl: So which genius decided to buy all those cameras without knowing if they'd actually work on Florida plates? Do these cameras have no money-back guarantee from the manufacturer?


City councilfolk. They're pretty good marks. They generally repeat ATS's sales pitch to their constituents, like the proles have a say in the matter
 
2012-10-10 10:42:32 PM  
Ugh, just qr code everything and be done with it.
 
2012-10-10 10:43:31 PM  

URAPNIS: One would think that would be a major portion of the testing stage.


Testing is for people who make mistakes. Losers.
 
2012-10-10 10:44:52 PM  

BeSerious: Why do I feel no compassion for people in that big a rush to get nowhere?


Cause you're old and retired and no one visits and there's nothing to do.
 
2012-10-10 10:47:17 PM  

BeSerious: Why do I feel no compassion for people in that big a rush to get nowhere?


Because those pesky trees keep getting in the way of your view of the forest.
 
2012-10-10 10:48:01 PM  
"The cafeteria staff is complaining about the mice in the kitchen. I want to hire a new staff. "

/this story reminded me of this line for some reason
 
2012-10-10 10:49:02 PM  
Dibs on ODO0D0 or KXXKKXX
 
2012-10-10 10:52:56 PM  
The worst part is that the state has made a deal with the private company who provides the cameras to take in a certain amount per year for the next several years. Any amount under that is paid out of the general fund.

I'm surprised that Tempe, Arizona-based American Traffic Solution's buildings haven't been burned to the ground yet.
 
2012-10-10 10:55:38 PM  

WordyGrrl: So which genius decided to buy all those cameras without knowing if they'd actually work on Florida plates? Do these cameras have no money-back guarantee from the manufacturer?


I believe in most cases these camera ticketing systems are offered up to the municipalities at no cost. There is probably a healthy "maintenance" fee built in, with the ticket revenue being split. So in the case mentioned in the article, they need 10 tickets a month to cover the costs and get a check.
 
2012-10-10 10:56:20 PM  

dstanley: No pendulous oranges or dangling Florida peninsulas


So no more

www.allfunpix.com
 
2012-10-10 10:58:19 PM  
Oblig:

www.fugly.com
 
2012-10-10 10:59:10 PM  
How much money do they think they're going to make off these cameras? If you invested that $31 million, even at only 3% return you'd be making close to a million a year.
 
2012-10-10 10:59:15 PM  

Mugato: Yeah, I read about this. We can spend $31 mill to change the license plates on every car so that cops can easier see them to give more tickets but the speed rail that was already paid for by the fed and would easily pay for itself and create $30,000 jobs would have been a waste. Thanks, Gov. Scott. Teabagger prick.


Nobody would have rode the speed rail. We're not New England. Nearly every mass transit project involving rails in Florida have lost money.
 
2012-10-10 10:59:40 PM  
Ah, here come the speeders and red-light violators to complain about being caught.
 
2012-10-10 10:59:48 PM  

BeSerious: Why do I feel no compassion for people in that big a rush to get nowhere?



It's not necessarily about a rush. Sitting at red lights wastes gasoline. Red lights are a pointless waste of fuel and increase unnecessary pollution.

The solution is not to try to catch more offenders. The solution is to reduce the likelihood of people offending. This can be done by a very small increase in the yellow light duration (as proven by multiple studies). It can also be done by increased light synchronization, creating better traffic flow.

Politicians are so focused on solving one issue that they never stop to realize that the "problem" may simply be a symptom of the real issue.

It's like gun control:

Problem?: People are killing each other with guns.
Solution?: Ban guns.

New Problem: People are killing each other with knives.
Solution?: Ban knives.

New Problem2: People are killing each other with pillows.
Solution?: Ban pillows.


Nobody ever stopped to question the real problem: Why are people so intent on killing each other? (Probably because of road rage over red lights...)
 
2012-10-10 11:03:53 PM  
Redlight cameras don't stop accidents. In order to prevent the type of accidents that red-light cameras are designed to catch, the offender running the green-to-yellow-to-red light would have to be t-boned by someone running a red light before it turns green.
 
2012-10-10 11:09:40 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Redlight cameras don't stop accidents. In order to prevent the type of accidents that red-light cameras are designed to catch, the offender running the green-to-yellow-to-red light would have to be t-boned by someone running a red light before it turns green.



I don't know about that. I've seen a red light camera flash, while sitting in the turn late, when some idiot ran a red light long after traffic had been flowing the other way. Luckily, only a couple of cars had been there, and they were already gone before the idiot blew through the intersection.
 
2012-10-10 11:15:07 PM  

BeSerious: Why do I feel no compassion for people in that big a rush to get nowhere?


Because your soul died after the transistor radio was introduced.
 
2012-10-10 11:23:29 PM  

TOSViolation: I don't know about that. I've seen a red light camera flash, while sitting in the turn late, when some idiot ran a red light long after traffic had been flowing the other way. Luckily, only a couple of cars had been there, and they were already gone before the idiot blew through the intersection.


Lot of good that camera did to stop that from happening.
 
2012-10-10 11:25:23 PM  
members.chello.cz
 
2012-10-10 11:33:24 PM  

Mugato: Yeah, I read about this. We can spend $31 mill to change the license plates on every car so that cops can easier see them to give more tickets but the speed rail that was already paid for by the fed and would easily pay for itself and create $30,000 jobs would have been a waste. Thanks, Gov. Scott. Teabagger prick.


No, the train was not paid for. Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
2012-10-10 11:33:32 PM  

Ryker's Peninsula: Even the cameras in Florida can't read!


Heh.
 
2012-10-10 11:36:04 PM  
kmoser, thanks for saving me the time to GIS one of those up.
 
2012-10-10 11:42:55 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Dibs on ODO0D0 or KXXKKXX


Don't forget 1111IIII
 
2012-10-10 11:43:24 PM  
To hell with red light cameras. Around here people are pretty reasonable with traffic lights. But stop signs? Everyone rolls through them. Everyone. It's the worst with right hand turns, but it's prolific at every stop sign for traffic going in any direction. Maybe I'm getting old, in fact I'm sure I am, but it bugs me.

It also bugs me that I'm as guilty as everyone else.
 
2012-10-10 11:47:36 PM  
They tried forcing us up in New York to switch plates early, claiming that the cameras in cop cars couldn't read the plates. The police basically said it was hooey. The state was going to make a ton, not on tickets, but on charging people to renew their plates a couple years earlier than the normal expiration. If the cameras really can't read the plates, with the price per ticket the state would hire someone to manually read it. This sounds awfully fishy.
 
2012-10-10 11:53:38 PM  
The lack of contrast on my National Weather Center tag makes it unreadable at greater than 15 feet or so. That's the main reason I got it. 
i89.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-11 12:00:58 AM  

KidneyStone: I'll be darned. Here in Georgia they made a big fuss about the gorgeous new license plates and when I saw one I noticed it was 100% flat and thought "license plates, no matter what the design, look like total shiat without raised lettering."

Now I know why


The orange does look like a peach when it is dirty.

/How you been Bro?
 
2012-10-11 12:02:27 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: TOSViolation: I don't know about that. I've seen a red light camera flash, while sitting in the turn late, when some idiot ran a red light long after traffic had been flowing the other way. Luckily, only a couple of cars had been there, and they were already gone before the idiot blew through the intersection.

Lot of good that camera did to stop that from happening.



I said, in an earlier post, that red light cameras don't address the problem. They only address a symptom. It's like finding a cure for cancer. It's more profitable to just treat the symptoms.
 
2012-10-11 12:09:03 AM  
Funny in my town the "Safety Patrol" added 4 cameras to generate 2 million dollars in 6 months (for your safety) my own sister got popped 3-4 times by them, rolling stop signs, or right hand turns.

I live in the boondocks, far from any bs cameras to trap me, even if I do 100 down my road.
 
2012-10-11 12:15:31 AM  

ghostofreasonpast: Mugato: Yeah, I read about this. We can spend $31 mill to change the license plates on every car so that cops can easier see them to give more tickets but the speed rail that was already paid for by the fed and would easily pay for itself and create $30,000 jobs would have been a waste. Thanks, Gov. Scott. Teabagger prick.

Nobody would have rode the speed rail. We're not New England. Nearly every mass transit project involving rails in Florida have lost money.


I guess it depends on which one you're looking at. Originally, it was to be a tri-city high-speed rail system linking Tampa, Orlando and Miami. Then it was an Orlando intracity rail system, then became a link from the airport directly to the Interstate Ave. tourist zone, then was scrapped. It was revived, then scrapped again, and I think once more, each time with lowered goals. It started off as a great idea, and quickly turned into a pile of crap. Typical for Florida.
 
2012-10-11 12:19:48 AM  

Misconduc: Funny in my town the "Safety Patrol" added 4 cameras to generate 2 million dollars in 6 months (for your safety) my own sister got popped 3-4 times by them, rolling stop signs, or right hand turns.

I live in the boondocks, far from any bs cameras to trap me, even if I do 100 down my road.


In all fairness, we've all popped your sister 3 or 4 times
 
2012-10-11 12:25:30 AM  

Ryker's Peninsula: Even the cameras in Florida can't read!


i877.photobucket.com

 
2012-10-11 12:27:50 AM  
The traffic camera paradox:

When they succeed in preventing accidents, they fail in generating revenue.

When they succeed in generating revenue, they are failing to prevent accidents.
 
2012-10-11 12:27:57 AM  
What do you know, the state that ruined America in 2000 is ruining their own state, who woulda guessed...
 
2012-10-11 12:29:05 AM  
Protip: If you don't want to get a ticket from a red-light camera, then DON'T DRIVE THROUGH A FARKING RED LIGHT. A novel concept, I know, but too much for most of you to handle.
 
2012-10-11 12:29:21 AM  

Mugato: Yeah, I read about this. We can spend $31 mill to change the license plates on every car so that cops can easier see them to give more tickets but the speed rail that was already paid for by the fed and would easily pay for itself and create $30,000 jobs would have been a waste. Thanks, Gov. Scott. Teabagger prick.


Yeah but now prisoners can make something else.
 
2012-10-11 12:29:49 AM  
Hehehe. Just wait until those red light cameras are upgraded to speed cameras! We have them here. "Oh, yellow light" (accelerates to make it through) *FLASH* "sonnofabiatch!". Hillarious.
 
2012-10-11 12:38:46 AM  

DownDaRiver: Ryker's Peninsula: Even the cameras in Florida can't read!

[i877.photobucket.com image 275x183]


img2.imagesbn.com
 
2012-10-11 12:52:34 AM  
The only thing that really bothers me about the red light cameras is that they are a lazy solution to what may or may not be an actual problem.

They are usually installed at so-called problem intersections. If an intersection is identified to have a higher number of red light incursions than surrounding intersections, then there is a roughly 100% likelihood that the problem is with the design of the intersection or the traffic control devices, and not the drivers that manage to pass through the nearby intersections without incident.

The solution: Remove distractions such as excessive retail signage, increase visibility by removing landscaping or other obstructions, increase awareness by adding signage1 or road dots, and finally, make sure light timings are consistent with NHTSA guidelines and surrounding intersections. When all these fail, then it's time to resort to punitive measures such as cameras.

Adding cameras without taking the other steps first is evidence of laziness and greed. As my other comment above states, when they're making money, they are not preventing accidents.

1. There are a few intersections near my house that have poor visibility until you are right on top of them. Instead of cameras, they added signs about 1000ft back from the signal that say "Prepare to Stop", with big flashing yellow lights that come on when the signal is about to change. I have never seen or heard of an accident there.
 
2012-10-11 12:58:35 AM  

xl5150: Protip: If you don't want to get a ticket from a red-light camera, then DON'T DRIVE THROUGH A FARKING RED LIGHT. A novel concept, I know, but too much for most of you to handle.


How about when the city artificially reduces the length of the yellow light in order to drive up the number of tickets? How about when the camera is "accidentally" calibrated to ticket everyone who drives through a yellow light?

Red light cameras are great in theory, but in reality they're just a big scam against anyone who doesn't have the time to fight the illegal ticket in court.
 
2012-10-11 01:00:32 AM  

ghostofreasonpast: Nobody would have rode the speed rail. We're not New England. Nearly every mass transit project involving rails in Florida have lost money.


Yeah, there's no reason anybody would want to travel from the coast to Orlando. I mean, wtf is there even to do in Orlando, amirite?
 
2012-10-11 01:00:33 AM  
Honestly, I am more than a bit surprised that red light cameras haven't been shot out in droves down in the gun-happy South.
 
2012-10-11 02:31:05 AM  
So, question, if I live in a camera infested city (ohhhh let's just say Washington DC), would it be illegal to leave the ass end of the car so dirty that the plates would be hard to read electronically?
 
2012-10-11 02:36:33 AM  
In my city, which is in Georgia, they installed quite a few of these at the busy intersections. They also manipulated the yellow light times so that they were a fraction of what they used to be, my city was not the only one to do such a thing with their new toys. Not only did the revenue flow in, but suddenly they had a shiat-ton more rear end accidents begin to happen.
Surprisingly, our pretty much ineffective Ga. legislature passed a law requiring yellow lights to be a certain length of time; not only did our accident rate drop, but revenues from our red light cameras virtually disappeared. Our city had to decommission our cameras, as they were no longer earning money for the city, but the lease became more than they raised.
How the hell the Ga legislature came up with a good law is way beyond me to explain, but it damn sure worked this time.
 
2012-10-11 02:59:28 AM  
From TFA: And in unincorporated Palm Beach County, the 10 cameras in place have yet to generate enough money in fines to match the costs of American Traffic Solutions, the Arizona for-profit company that operates the cameras.

TSA, CCA (Corrections Corporation of America), American Traffic Solutions: Taking our tax dollars without making us any safer. Thank you, Republicans, Democrats, and Lobbyists.
 
2012-10-11 03:13:30 AM  
Arkansas has laws on the books prohibiting the use of red light cameras.

There is a serious Due Process issue with ticketing someone just because you can read a license plate that is registered to them. It may be their kid driving. It may be ANYONE driving their car. Unless you can prove it was them driving, you have short circuited the constitutional right to due process before being found guilty and being fined.
 
2012-10-11 03:21:41 AM  
State license plates are an idiotic american tradition that have outlived their usefulness. Solution: adopt the european/most of the world system. Cheaper costs for all involved, better enforcability.

Oh, it will never happen then because this is yet another commmonsense solution that americans will be "outraged" over? well then, continue with your gradual erosion of living standard and world prestige while you wonder where your national wealth went.
 
2012-10-11 03:36:20 AM  
doosh: So, question, if I live in a camera infested city (ohhhh let's just say Washington DC), would it be illegal to leave the ass end of the car so dirty that the plates would be hard to read electronically?

it is in most of the civilized world. so, yes. as it damn well should be.
 
2012-10-11 03:52:59 AM  

Priapetic: Oblig:

[www.fugly.com image 450x231]


Because it's just not a Floriduh license plate thread without the A55 ORGY!
 
2012-10-11 05:02:59 AM  

ghostofreasonpast: Nobody would have rode the speed rail. We're not New England. Nearly every mass transit project involving rails in Florida have lost money.


Yeah, no one drives to Orlando or Miami.
 
2012-10-11 05:20:37 AM  
The UK licence plate font was changed a few years back precisely to make it more readable by ANPR systems. If we have nothing to hide, we have nothing to fear.
 
2012-10-11 05:40:09 AM  

LiberalConservative: Hehehe. Just wait until those red light cameras are upgraded to speed cameras! We have them here. "Oh, yellow light" (accelerates to make it through) *FLASH* "sonnofabiatch!". Hillarious.


I'm looking forward to it. The number of people here who blatantly break the law while driving is amazing. Now if only they could upgrade them to "lack of insurance" cameras we'd all be better off.
 
2012-10-11 06:00:08 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: LiberalConservative: Hehehe. Just wait until those red light cameras are upgraded to speed cameras! We have them here. "Oh, yellow light" (accelerates to make it through) *FLASH* "sonnofabiatch!". Hillarious.

I'm looking forward to it. The number of people here who blatantly break the law while driving is amazing. Now if only they could upgrade them to "lack of insurance" cameras we'd all be better off.


Yeah. Cool idea.
Perhaps that wouldn't be needed so much if personal injury insurance was a compulsory payment as part of vehicle registration, like they do here.
Hope that made sense, think the codeine is kicking in.
 
2012-10-11 06:11:43 AM  

shiattynick: How the hell the Ga legislature came up with a good law is way beyond me to explain, but it damn sure worked this time.


Probably one or more of them got nabbed themselves(rear ended somebody who stopped too fast at a green/yellow), and thought to themselves, 'well, I'll fix THAT'.

LiberalConservative: Perhaps that wouldn't be needed so much if personal injury insurance was a compulsory payment as part of vehicle registration, like they do here.


Perhaps. Some states, believe it or not, revoke your Driver's License if you don't buy insurance. My supervisor lost his driver's license - he moved states, sold the vehicle(and thus dropped the insurance on it), somewhere some bit of paperwork telling the state he no longer owned a vehicle needing insurance was lost or never filed(not being necessary in the state he sold it in), and the state duly revoked his license pending proof he'd gotten insurance again(on a vehicle he doesn't own anymore).
 
2012-10-11 06:28:16 AM  

Mugato: ghostofreasonpast: Nobody would have rode the speed rail. We're not New England. Nearly every mass transit project involving rails in Florida have lost money.

Yeah, no one drives to Orlando or Miami.


And once they got there, then what? Rely on the current public transit infrastructure? Keep dreaming.

The whole train concept was originally a Disney idea to get the taxpayers to pay for a system to get people from MCO to either Disney World or Port Canaveral for their cruise ship. Later on it was expanded to extend to Tampa for guess what, cruise ships at Port Tampa. Then the boondoggle got out of control when TPTB decided to run it down the Turnpike to connect guess where again? Port Everglades and Port of Miami where I think you should know by now host cruise ships.

It was never going to pay for itself and now California, who happily grabbed the borrowed seed money, is being smacked by Reality with the cost and overruns of their own high speed rail project.
 
2012-10-11 06:41:20 AM  

StrikitRich: It was never going to pay for itself and now California, who happily grabbed the borrowed seed money, is being smacked by Reality with the cost and overruns of their own high speed rail project.


Well according to a report by the Florida Dept of Transportation, the rail would have generated a surplus of $45 million in its second year. And 30,000 jobs, not to mention that everyone voted for it but Scott turned it down because of his bullshiat tea party politics. So we'll just live with the weekly multiple pileups on I4 and Alligator Alley.
 
2012-10-11 06:45:52 AM  
Those construction jobs would have been temporary and if Amtrak can't generate a profit in the Northeast how was this boondoggle ever going to generate a dime in Florida?
 
2012-10-11 06:49:21 AM  

Ryker's Peninsula: Even the cameras in Florida can't read!


Why the Florida tag if these states have already adopted the flat plates. Guess they can't read in D.C. or these states, either.


Alabama (2007)
Arizona (2008)
Delaware (2002)
District of Columbia/Washington, D.C. (2001)
Idaho (2008)
Indiana (2003)
Iowa (1999/2000)
Minnesota (2008)
Montana (2003)
Nebraska (2005)
Nevada (2006)
Oklahoma (2009)
South Carolina (2007/2008)
South Dakota (2006)
Tennessee (2006)
Texas (2009)
Wyoming (2001)

These other states are in consideration:


Colorado (a few in 1996 using Azon-Utsch; in more wide use since about 2000)
Minnesota (2003)
Mississippi (2003)
Missouri (2000, personalized plates)
New York (late 1995 using Azon-Utsch)
Ohio (2003)
Oregon (2002)
Texas (2002 for cars, 2001 for motorcycles)
Washington (2005)
 
2012-10-11 07:26:12 AM  

JRinOKC: The lack of contrast on my National Weather Center tag makes it unreadable at greater than 15 feet or so. That's the main reason I got it. 
[i89.photobucket.com image 800x378]


You should check it with an infrared camera.
 
2012-10-11 07:34:24 AM  

Sim Tree: Smeggy Smurf: Dibs on ODO0D0 or KXXKKXX

Don't forget 1111IIII


imgs.xkcd.com

/as always, xkcd has the answer
 
2012-10-11 07:49:17 AM  
One nation, under surveillance, with legibility and just deserts for all.

Great quote.
 
2012-10-11 08:22:04 AM  
And all the morons come out of the woodwork to protest the fact they will not be able to run through red lights anymore.

/it's safe when I do it because I go extra fast so I'm not in the intersection long.
 
2012-10-11 08:22:12 AM  

JosephFinn: Ah, here come the speeders and red-light violators to complain about being caught.


No, here come the drivers who complain about having to support an Arizona-based, for-profit (NTTAWWT) company forcing us to purchase new tags so South Florida, Orlando, and Jacksonville municipalities can make money without working.

Oh, and one more thing ...

FARK YOU AND DIAF, VOLDEMORT!

 
2012-10-11 08:25:16 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: LiberalConservative: Hehehe. Just wait until those red light cameras are upgraded to speed cameras! We have them here. "Oh, yellow light" (accelerates to make it through) *FLASH* "sonnofabiatch!". Hillarious.

I'm looking forward to it. The number of people here who blatantly break the law while driving is amazing. Now if only they could upgrade them to "lack of insurance" cameras we'd all be better off.


I saw hundreds of people get red light tickets in California.

Not one single time did I EVER see someone get flashed that didn't blatantly deserve it, usually entering the intersection full seconds after the light changed.

/no, it is not legal to make a right on red at 35 MPH without stopping
 
2012-10-11 08:31:49 AM  

xl5150: Protip: If you don't want to get a ticket from a red-light camera, then DON'T DRIVE THROUGH A FARKING RED LIGHT. A novel concept, I know, but too much for most of you to handle.


You might have had a point if Orlando had not been busted this week for shortening the length of the yellow light, thereby generating millions for the city.
 
2012-10-11 08:50:21 AM  
Krylon High-reflective clear coat. Invisible to the naked eye, bleaches out the image if the camera uses a flash.
 
2012-10-11 09:09:57 AM  

Spanky McStupid:
You might have had a point if Orlando had not been busted this week for shortening the length of the yellow light, thereby generating millions for the city.


Houston was guilty of that too so they changed tactics. They picked out some highway feeder roads with high traffic and a long no-side-street/no-escape distance in front of the light. Then Houston shortened the green light to 1 second causing multi-hour delays at the light. Drivers (correctly) interpreted this as a malfunctioning light and began to treat the intersection as a four way stop. Red light camera profit!$$$
 
2012-10-11 09:12:47 AM  

Deep Contact: One nation, under surveillance, with legibility and just deserts for all.

Great quote.


It'd probably be greater if it said "desserts", but I guess sand is cool too.
 
2012-10-11 09:16:29 AM  

StrikitRich: Those construction jobs would have been temporary and if Amtrak can't generate a profit in the Northeast how was this boondoggle ever going to generate a dime in Florida?


You don't just have construction jobs - you also have maintainers and operators to employ afterwards. Plus, of course, it'd be a nice convenient way to get to the cruise ships/amusement parks, which can actually generate enough traffic to make rail make sense.

fluffy2097: Not one single time did I EVER see someone get flashed that didn't blatantly deserve it, usually entering the intersection full seconds after the light changed.


That they're the only ones you've seen doesn't mean that all municipalities were doing it right. We've seen plenty of articles about shenanigans, and studies showing rear-end collisions increase when red light cameras are deployed, not to mention people figure out where they are and income quickly drops on them.

There are states banning them because they're blatantly sold as being *money makers*, not means to improve safety. At least cigarette and alcohol taxes are sold as reducing consumption; it was only when increasing said taxes got to the point that they actually reduced consumption enough that tax revenues from them went down and black market cigs from lower tax areas became popular that money politics got really nasty on it.

Add in the things deliberately designed to increase revenues like reducing yellow periods and you have problems.

I'm not universally against red light cameras, mind you. There's been enough conflicting studies that I believe that they're overall positive if done correctly, though I'm not a traffic expert to say what 'correctly' is. What I do think is clear is that running a red camera system for profit is different than running one for safety; with the fines only really intended to cover costs.
 
2012-10-11 09:20:40 AM  

Firethorn: StrikitRich: Those construction jobs would have been temporary and if Amtrak can't generate a profit in the Northeast how was this boondoggle ever going to generate a dime in Florida?

You don't just have construction jobs - you also have maintainers and operators to employ afterwards. Plus, of course, it'd be a nice convenient way to get to the cruise ships/amusement parks, which can actually generate enough traffic to make rail make sense.

fluffy2097: Not one single time did I EVER see someone get flashed that didn't blatantly deserve it, usually entering the intersection full seconds after the light changed.

That they're the only ones you've seen doesn't mean that all municipalities were doing it right. We've seen plenty of articles about shenanigans, and studies showing rear-end collisions increase when red light cameras are deployed, not to mention people figure out where they are and income quickly drops on them.

There are states banning them because they're blatantly sold as being *money makers*, not means to improve safety. At least cigarette and alcohol taxes are sold as reducing consumption; it was only when increasing said taxes got to the point that they actually reduced consumption enough that tax revenues from them went down and black market cigs from lower tax areas became popular that money politics got really nasty on it.

Add in the things deliberately designed to increase revenues like reducing yellow periods and you have problems.

I'm not universally against red light cameras, mind you. There's been enough conflicting studies that I believe that they're overall positive if done correctly, though I'm not a traffic expert to say what 'correctly' is. What I do think is clear is that running a red camera system for profit is different than running one for safety; with the fines only really intended to cover costs.


If Florida had the high speed rail, I could see vacationing there more often. My wife's grandparents live in Homosassa. Being able to visit them and jaunt over to Orlando for the parks, or Miami for the partying would be a huge draw for me.
 
2012-10-11 09:24:25 AM  

Spanky McStupid: You might have had a point if Orlando had not been busted this week for shortening the length of the yellow light, thereby generating millions for the city.


spamalope: Houston was guilty of that too so they changed tactics.


Hate to ask this, seeing as how I've heard about shortening yellows before, but in Houston I'd think most of those tickets be thrown out/cost the city more in lawsuit, and doing a quick search didn't make anything show up, so do you happen to have sources on these events?
 
2012-10-11 10:46:15 AM  

xl5150: Protip: If you don't want to get a ticket from a red-light camera, then DON'T DRIVE THROUGH A FARKING RED LIGHT. A novel concept, I know, but too much for most of you to handle.


Some of those cameras are BS. When I lived in Maryland I stopped at a red light at the corner of Patuxent Woods Dr. and Owen Brown Parkway and the damn camera went off because the nose of my car was two feet over the white stop line painted on the road. The camera took three pics. Supposedly to capture a car entering, crossing, and leaving the intersection. Since this happened at night my brake lights were clearly visible in all three pics and my car had not moved. The line was painted far enough back that even where my car was positioned just across the line it did not enter the intersection, nor would it have impeded or endangered cross flow traffic. Those bastards still had the nerve to send me a ticket with the camera pics demanding $75. I went to court and the judge agreed that I hadn't ran the light, but I was still required to pay $40 plus court costs for using the courts time.

/rant over
//FARK MARYLAND!
 
2012-10-11 10:57:26 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: LiberalConservative: Hehehe. Just wait until those red light cameras are upgraded to speed cameras! We have them here. "Oh, yellow light" (accelerates to make it through) *FLASH* "sonnofabiatch!". Hillarious.

I'm looking forward to it. The number of people here who blatantly break the law while driving is amazing. Now if only they could upgrade them to "lack of insurance" cameras we'd all be better off.


As another farker mentioned upthread, that would be where a QR code would come in. Since your insurance company is required to report your status to your states DMV the QR code on your license plate could be linked to an online database. Get popped by by a red light/speed camera and, BANG, two tickets for the price of one.
 
2012-10-11 11:10:00 AM  

FTDA: Some of those cameras are BS. When I lived in Maryland I stopped at a red light at the corner of Patuxent Woods Dr. and Owen Brown Parkway and the damn camera went off because the nose of my car was two feet over the white stop line painted on the road. The camera took three pics. Supposedly to capture a car entering, crossing, and leaving the intersection. Since this happened at night my brake lights were clearly visible in all three pics and my car had not moved. The line was painted far enough back that even where my car was positioned just across the line it did not enter the intersection, nor would it have impeded or endangered cross flow traffic. Those bastards still had the nerve to send me a ticket with the camera pics demanding $75. I went to court and the judge agreed that I hadn't ran the light, but I was still required to pay $40 plus court costs for using the courts time.

/rant over
//FARK MARYLAND!


Technically, if you are over the stop line, you "ran the light". Does anyone care enough to think you truly deserve a ticket? No, as long as you aren't blocking traffic... But you did technically break the law.

I stop before the stop line every time... But not because I feel the need to follow every rule of the road (I break the speed limit at every opportunity), but because I have some kind of strange driving OCD. If I'm too far behind the line, I will inch up until my front bumper is just on the line. If I pull up behind a car, I have to be no more than 3 feet behind them. I follow every single line on the road, including following turn lanes precisely and following the line when a lane splits. When I park, my car has to be perfectly straight and in the middle of the parking spot... If I get out and it's off in some way, I will get back in and re-park my car. I am a strange person.
 
2012-10-11 11:26:53 AM  

CCCarnie: FTDA: Some of those cameras are BS. When I lived in Maryland I stopped at a red light at the corner of Patuxent Woods Dr. and Owen Brown Parkway and the damn camera went off because the nose of my car was two feet over the white stop line painted on the road. The camera took three pics. Supposedly to capture a car entering, crossing, and leaving the intersection. Since this happened at night my brake lights were clearly visible in all three pics and my car had not moved. The line was painted far enough back that even where my car was positioned just across the line it did not enter the intersection, nor would it have impeded or endangered cross flow traffic. Those bastards still had the nerve to send me a ticket with the camera pics demanding $75. I went to court and the judge agreed that I hadn't ran the light, but I was still required to pay $40 plus court costs for using the courts time.

/rant over
//FARK MARYLAND!

Technically, if you are over the stop line, you "ran the light". Does anyone care enough to think you truly deserve a ticket? No, as long as you aren't blocking traffic... But you did technically break the law.

I stop before the stop line every time... But not because I feel the need to follow every rule of the road (I break the speed limit at every opportunity), but because I have some kind of strange driving OCD. If I'm too far behind the line, I will inch up until my front bumper is just on the line. If I pull up behind a car, I have to be no more than 3 feet behind them. I follow every single line on the road, including following turn lanes precisely and following the line when a lane splits. When I park, my car has to be perfectly straight and in the middle of the parking spot... If I get out and it's off in some way, I will get back in and re-park my car. I am a strange person.


Technicalities, the devil is truly in the details. Either way the Maryland court system was making money hand over fist.
 
2012-10-11 11:33:26 AM  

fluffy2097: blah blah blah.....

/no, it is not legal to make a right on red at 35 MPH without stopping



...... but it's FUN!
 
2012-10-11 12:20:37 PM  
Slightly off topic but in Florida there's a biatch of a speed trap right before you get to Disney World coming from the west on I4. It goes to 35 for like a mile and there's a cop just sitting there. Kind of a dick move to give someone a ticket when he's already on his way to get financially raped at Disney.
 
2012-10-11 01:26:26 PM  

WordyGrrl: So which genius decided to buy all those cameras without knowing if they'd actually work on Florida plates? Do these cameras have no money-back guarantee from the manufacturer?


The manufacturer is ATS, a division of Lockheed Martin, whose money back guarantee is generally, "fark you. We got your money."
 
2012-10-11 03:53:06 PM  

What Plants Crave: The only thing that really bothers me about the red light cameras is that they are a lazy solution to what may or may not be an actual problem.

They are usually installed at so-called problem intersections. If an intersection is identified to have a higher number of red light incursions than surrounding intersections, then there is a roughly 100% likelihood that the problem is with the design of the intersection or the traffic control devices, and not the drivers that manage to pass through the nearby intersections without incident.

The solution: Remove distractions such as excessive retail signage,



Stop right there.

Why do you hate capitalism?
 
2012-10-11 04:15:35 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: What Plants Crave: The only thing that really bothers me about the red light cameras is that they are a lazy solution to what may or may not be an actual problem.

They are usually installed at so-called problem intersections. If an intersection is identified to have a higher number of red light incursions than surrounding intersections, then there is a roughly 100% likelihood that the problem is with the design of the intersection or the traffic control devices, and not the drivers that manage to pass through the nearby intersections without incident.

The solution: Remove distractions such as excessive retail signage,


Stop right there.

Why do you hate capitalism?


retail signage is visual pollution.
 
2012-10-11 04:28:17 PM  

Girion47: StoPPeRmobile: What Plants Crave: The only thing that really bothers me about the red light cameras is that they are a lazy solution to what may or may not be an actual problem.

They are usually installed at so-called problem intersections. If an intersection is identified to have a higher number of red light incursions than surrounding intersections, then there is a roughly 100% likelihood that the problem is with the design of the intersection or the traffic control devices, and not the drivers that manage to pass through the nearby intersections without incident.

The solution: Remove distractions such as excessive retail signage,


Stop right there.

Why do you hate capitalism?

retail signage is visual pollution.


But how will I know which lawyer to hire?
 
2012-10-11 06:48:33 PM  

FTDA: I went to court and the judge agreed that I hadn't ran the light, but I was still required to pay $40 plus court costs for using the courts time


Send a $40 bill to the ticketing company for 'expenses related to their improper setup of their camera/review system'. Include a line that you'll sue them in small claims for the $40 "plus expenses" if they don't pay up.
 
2012-10-11 06:51:58 PM  

Firethorn: FTDA: I went to court and the judge agreed that I hadn't ran the light, but I was still required to pay $40 plus court costs for using the courts time

Send a $40 bill to the ticketing company for 'expenses related to their improper setup of their camera/review system'. Include a line that you'll sue them in small claims for the $40 "plus expenses" if they don't pay up.


I like that idea, there needs to be some way to recoup court costs in cases where the defendant is not guilty.
 
2012-10-11 08:33:31 PM  

Girion47: I like that idea, there needs to be some way to recoup court costs in cases where the defendant is not guilty.


I like it because it's basically using the red light company/government jurisdiction's tactics against them. It's cheaper for the company to pay the $40 than to send a non-lawyer type who's still senior enough to make arguments(lawyers are deliberately handicapped in small claims courts) to respond in the trial. If they don't send somebody, default judgement. Even if they send somebody, they can't be sure of winning.

Which is much the treatment that most counties use for disputing tickets and civil expenses - make the ticket and the court costs to dispute the ticket about equal, thus most don't dispute. FTDA says he went to court over a $75 ticket, but had to pay $40. Figure your average working schmuck makes $20/hour, and he's got to take 2 hours off to got to court to make a dispute, that's $80 to dispute a $75 ticket. Cheaper to pay. It's part of the reason why red light companies looking to make a buck campaign hard to remove any point assessments as a result of their cameras - people will fight points regardless of monetary cost much quicker than simply paying a fine once a month or so.
 
2012-10-11 09:06:08 PM  

Firethorn: That they're the only ones you've seen doesn't mean that all municipalities were doing it right. We've seen plenty of articles about shenanigans, and studies showing rear-end collisions increase when red light cameras are deployed, not to mention people figure out where they are and income quickly drops on them.


There are legal requirements for yellow lights and camera setups. When they are followed, the red light cameras work great. You can look up the federal requirements on yellow lights and time the light in question. If it is shorter then that, you will get your ticket dismissed when you prove it in court. The problem is with people who complain about red light cameras. They can't prove shiat because they really did run the light and everyone knows it.

If the cameras make no money, they are doing their job. Awesome. By the way, the cameras I saw were in place for YEARS, were very well marked, and people still ran them all the time like lemmings.

If you rear end someone, you were following them too close. Period. You are always legally at fault if you rear end someone. Furthemore, it's much better to be rear ended at 10mph then being T-boned by someone doing 50. I'd take an slight increase in minor accidents for a major decrease in severe accidents, Which is what studies show happens.

Red light cameras are awesome. If they are implemented wrong, complain. If it is not resolved, why the fark did you vote buffoons into your local political office. ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-10-12 12:53:21 AM  

fluffy2097: There are legal requirements for yellow lights and camera setups. When they are followed, the red light cameras work great. You can look up the federal requirements on yellow lights and time the light in question.


There are federal guidlines/recommendations, but they're not regulations. Yes, proving that the yellow is too short *can* get tickets thrown out, but as the person above mentioned, it's a $75 ticket if you just pay, and $40 just to fight it. In some jurisdictions I can guarantee the judge won't care that the yellow is too short.

The problem is with people who complain about red light cameras. They can't prove shiat because they really did run the light and everyone knows it.

Did you read my entire post, you know, the parts down at the bottom where I mention that I'm not 100% opposed to red light cameras, just ones that are run more for revenue than safety?

If the cameras make no money, they are doing their job. Awesome. By the way, the cameras I saw were in place for YEARS, were very well marked, and people still ran them all the time like lemmings.

Going by figures tossed around in this thread, it costs $3k/month to monitor an intersection. Going by $75/ticket, that's 40 violations successfully collected a month necessary just to break even. I know the fees are higher in some states, but in many of the contracts the commercial company also gets a cut, so the state doesn't get the full ticket price. It's more like $3k/month plus 20% of any fines collected.

If the camera has been in place for years, is clearly marked, and people *still* 'run them like lemmings', obviously the cameras aren't working for the purpose they were first sold on, the one I can agree with - *safety*. Obviously it's time to look at the other factors at the intersection. Is the yellow too short? Is the light obstructed? Are the drivers just that bad?

If you rear end someone, you were following them too close. Period. You are always legally at fault if you rear end someone. Furthemore, it's much better to be rear ended at 10mph then being T-boned by someone doing 50. I'd take an slight increase in minor accidents for a major decrease in severe accidents, Which is what studies show happens.

It depends on the study, but I remember a few found that side impact collisions weren't decreased by any significant amount, while rear impact collisions jumped by an OOM.

Look, I actually agree with you were following too close if you rear end someone. But I'm approaching it from a traffic engineer standpoint - collisions are bad, irregardless of fault. Bad drivers are an unfortunate fact of life and need to be accounted for. Look at it like this - a theft is 100% of the fault of the thief, but if I'm operating a store that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be taking anti-theft measures. As a driver, I'd prefer NOT to be rear-ended in the first place.

Getting back to red light cameras - It's a known fact that red light violations will increase an average of 110% percent if you shorten the yellow by 1 second. Violations will decrease by 50% if it's lengthened by 1 second. This is the sort of stuff where I call shenanigans on, when cities do things like shorten the yellow on camera intersections below standards if they're not making 'enough' money.

Red light cameras are awesome. If they are implemented wrong, complain. If it is not resolved, why the fark did you vote buffoons into your local political office. ಠ_ಠ

That's what's been happening, wrong implementations. Worse, it appears that a number of politicians, such as those in Houston, managed to piss the population off sufficiently for them to vote against them by a wider margin than many recent presidential elections. In Houston's case the Mayor, after losing the vote on them, proceeded to disregard said vote and had them turned back on - which obviously pissed off her democratic process loving constituents to the point that even ones that wanted to keep the red light cameras wanted them gone and her out of office. 

As for voting buffoons - sometimes you voted for the 'other guy', sometimes you voted for the least bad/evil. :(
 
2012-10-12 12:11:13 PM  

fluffy2097: ...If you rear end someone, you were following them too close. Period. You are always legally at fault if you rear end someone. ...


Popular but false myth.
 
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