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(io9)   Physicists say there may be a way to prove that there is no spoon   (io9.com) divider line 170
    More: Interesting, simulations, physicists, strong forces, physical changes, lattices, spoons, cosmic microwave background, quantum chromodynamics  
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6041 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Oct 2012 at 9:46 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-10 04:49:35 PM  
If it's not a simulation why are there arbitrary limits on things like maximum speed and minimum temperature?
 
2012-10-10 06:14:22 PM  
You mean it only took 2500 years for math to catch up with the Buddha? Or is this something else, unrelated to the deep truths about emptiness and form laid down so long ago it's almost criminally negligent to be unawares of them.
 
2012-10-10 07:01:17 PM  

NowhereMon: If it's not a simulation why are there arbitrary limits on things like maximum speed and minimum temperature?


Those limits aren't arbitrary.
 
2012-10-10 08:46:19 PM  
So I take it this being true would explain Revolution?
 
2012-10-10 08:50:56 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: Those limits aren't arbitrary.


The limits may be a result of the values of certain constants, but as far as I know (not a physicist) the values of most of the constants, like the mass of subatomic particles, are arbitrary and were set at the time of the big bang. That's used by some people as proof of a god, they say those values all had to be just right for us to exist. And the other side says yeah, but let's say it was just chance and by chance the values ended up as they are, we'd see exactly the same thing: a universe that seems to be set up just right for us.
 
2012-10-10 09:12:17 PM  
In truth, if gamma rays move preferentially along a certain axis of a lattice that may prove other things besides computer simulation. It would still be neat to know.

/Just saying, testing wouldn't even remotely stop there.
 
2012-10-10 09:55:24 PM  
Physicists say there may be a way to prove that there is no spoon Intelligent Design
 
2012-10-10 10:00:17 PM  
I guess god is that guy who played the 10 year long civilization game.
 
2012-10-10 10:01:10 PM  

vossiewulf: rumpelstiltskin: Those limits aren't arbitrary.

The limits may be a result of the values of certain constants, but as far as I know (not a physicist) the values of most of the constants, like the mass of subatomic particles, are arbitrary and were set at the time of the big bang. That's used by some people as proof of a god, they say those values all had to be just right for us to exist. And the other side says yeah, but let's say it was just chance and by chance the values ended up as they are, we'd see exactly the same thing: a universe that seems to be set up just right for us.


One could also say that if the cosmological constants were not exactly tuned to allow for life, we would not be here to observe them. Personally, I think this line of reasoning is a cop out on the order of "God did it", but its the only answer I have heard given in response to your questions/assertions.
 
2012-10-10 10:01:20 PM  

NowhereMon: If it's not a simulation why are there arbitrary limits on things like maximum speed and minimum temperature?


Maximum speed is one of those things that hurts my head to think about for too long (the maximum speed is light speed, as seen from ANY frame of reference - light always travels the same speed relative to you, no matter how fast you are going, thus time dilation happens...) but minimum temperature is easy.

Absolute zero is when atomic motion ceases, essentially. You can't get colder than zero motion. There's no such thing as negative motion, so there's nothing colder than absolute zero. That's why it's absolute.
 
2012-10-10 10:03:51 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-10 10:09:00 PM  
Sorry, I was staring at the hot woman in the red dress and wasn't paying attention.

images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-10-10 10:09:17 PM  

SearchN: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 765x941]


It's dangerous to go alone. Take both of these and pass out.
 
2012-10-10 10:11:27 PM  

nmemkha: vossiewulf: rumpelstiltskin: Those limits aren't arbitrary.

The limits may be a result of the values of certain constants, but as far as I know (not a physicist) the values of most of the constants, like the mass of subatomic particles, are arbitrary and were set at the time of the big bang. That's used by some people as proof of a god, they say those values all had to be just right for us to exist. And the other side says yeah, but let's say it was just chance and by chance the values ended up as they are, we'd see exactly the same thing: a universe that seems to be set up just right for us.

One could also say that if the cosmological constants were not exactly tuned to allow for life, we would not be here to observe them. Personally, I think this line of reasoning is a cop out on the order of "God did it", but its the only answer I have heard given in response to your questions/assertions.


This is, of course, one of the motivations for the formulation of string theory... that the various constants result from the limited ways in which planck-size strings and branes can vibrate around certain 11-dimensional shapes.

I don't pretend to understand the math behind it.
 
2012-10-10 10:12:53 PM  
He'll be here. He'll be here soon.
 
2012-10-10 10:13:13 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: nmemkha: vossiewulf: rumpelstiltskin: Those limits aren't arbitrary.

The limits may be a result of the values of certain constants, but as far as I know (not a physicist) the values of most of the constants, like the mass of subatomic particles, are arbitrary and were set at the time of the big bang. That's used by some people as proof of a god, they say those values all had to be just right for us to exist. And the other side says yeah, but let's say it was just chance and by chance the values ended up as they are, we'd see exactly the same thing: a universe that seems to be set up just right for us.

One could also say that if the cosmological constants were not exactly tuned to allow for life, we would not be here to observe them. Personally, I think this line of reasoning is a cop out on the order of "God did it", but its the only answer I have heard given in response to your questions/assertions.

This is, of course, one of the motivations for the formulation of string theory... that the various constants result from the limited ways in which planck-size strings and branes can vibrate around certain 11-dimensional shapes.

I don't pretend to understand the math behind it.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-10-10 10:13:41 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: 11-dimensional shapes.


I... huh; um, what?
 
2012-10-10 10:17:08 PM  
What kind of computer could simulate an entire universe down to the subatomic level? It's ridiculous to think about.
 
2012-10-10 10:19:11 PM  
All I need to know is one thing: how do I enable God Mode.
 
2012-10-10 10:19:48 PM  
Says it could pave the way for more complex simulations using cells and possibly humans. Seems unethical to me.
 
2012-10-10 10:29:51 PM  
Prove? They keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
2012-10-10 10:33:46 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: The All-Powerful Atheismo: 11-dimensional shapes.

I... huh; um, what?


1 - Width
2 - Height
3 - Depth
4 - Time
5 - Fractal Elves Enclave
6 - Hell
7 - Heaven
8 - Mormon Heaven
9 - Atheismo's Domain
10 - Dog Heaven
11 - For Rent
 
2012-10-10 10:36:11 PM  
Let's hope the system we are running is not windows.
 
2012-10-10 10:42:19 PM  
Since no one else has done this yet:

fc02.deviantart.net
 
2012-10-10 10:46:08 PM  

Inquisitive Inquisitor: It's dangerous to go alone. Take both of these and pass out.


I've always kind wondered what would've happened had Neo taken both of those at once. Also lol that red one looks just like a robo gel.
 
2012-10-10 10:56:10 PM  
All hail, Subby

www.paklinks.com
 
2012-10-10 11:00:19 PM  

nmemkha: Uchiha_Cycliste: The All-Powerful Atheismo: 11-dimensional shapes.

I... huh; um, what?

1 - Width
2 - Height
3 - Depth
4 - Time
5 - Fractal Elves Enclave
6 - Hell
7 - Heaven
8 - Mormon Heaven
9 - Atheismo's Domain
10 - Dog Heaven
11 - For Rent


i451.photobucket.com

\where's biker heaven? The realm of the bike god, Biki?
 
2012-10-10 11:11:29 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: All I need to know is one thing: how do I enable God Mode.


God uses a Gameshark with all cheats on.

/lots of discovery channel astronomers in here
 
2012-10-10 11:17:44 PM  
Is that why my pool ladders suddenly disappeared on me the other day? I spent three damn days in the pool before they reappeared and I was able to climb out; almost drowned.
 
2012-10-10 11:23:21 PM  
If we do discover we are living in a computer simulation, does that mean we can then go all Skynetty and become terminators?
 
2012-10-10 11:25:32 PM  

TheSwizz: Is that why my pool ladders suddenly disappeared on me the other day? I spent three damn days in the pool before they reappeared and I was able to climb out; almost drowned.


You might want to cut back on the chlorine in your pool.
 
2012-10-10 11:29:10 PM  
images.crateandbarrel.com
i3.ytimg.com
 
2012-10-10 11:48:34 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: All I need to know is one thing: how do I enable God Mode.


IDDQD
 
2012-10-10 11:51:34 PM  
Chim thread?
 
2012-10-10 11:51:41 PM  

Hagbardr: JasonOfOrillia: All I need to know is one thing: how do I enable God Mode.

IDDQD


Not in Blood it's not.
 
2012-10-10 11:56:25 PM  
Uh, you mean Constants?

Or the Dimensions we live within?


/call me when you can manipulate Gravity correctly...then I'll pay attention.
 
2012-10-10 11:57:11 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: All I need to know is one thing: how do I enable God Mode.


Duh, its the Konami Code. The difficultly is finding the A and B buttons ...
 
2012-10-11 12:13:45 AM  
forums.homestead.org

Sp J.P., how much do clothes cost in the Matrix?
 
2012-10-11 12:13:54 AM  

NowhereMon: If it's not a simulation why are there arbitrary limits on things like maximum speed and minimum temperature?


How do you know there are?

faculty.washington.edu
 
2012-10-11 12:14:23 AM  

nmemkha: JasonOfOrillia: All I need to know is one thing: how do I enable God Mode.

Duh, its the Konami Code. The difficultly is finding the A and B buttons ...


Hey, I found the clitoris. The AB buttons should be a snap.
 
2012-10-11 12:15:34 AM  

Communist_Manifesto: I guess god is that guy who played the 10 year long civilization game.


I think my Hegemony Gold game will last that long.

/almost a perfect game
 
2012-10-11 12:16:36 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: The All-Powerful Atheismo: 11-dimensional shapes.

I... huh; um, what?


Ever work with databases?
 
2012-10-11 12:25:29 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: Uchiha_Cycliste: The All-Powerful Atheismo: 11-dimensional shapes.

I... huh; um, what?

Ever work with databases?


At what level? making queries, rebuilding the postgressQL engine, code around use of the DB. ,
 
2012-10-11 12:33:53 AM  
FTA: ...they've created an ultra-small version of the universe

Or they can just take the road to Tucson.

/not obscure

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-11 12:35:23 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: The All-Powerful Atheismo: 11-dimensional shapes.

I... huh; um, what?


One of these things:
upload.wikimedia.org


To give an extremely brief explanation...

String theory says that tiny loops (and surfaces) called strings (and branes) vibrate in certain ways to produce the particles of our universe. The rules of string theory state that the particles of our universe can only exist the way they do if they are strings wrapping through and around those 11 dimensions in that shape, kinda like how a rubber band would wrap around a garden hose.

The reason we don't actually see 11 dimensions, and also the reason we can't understand what those dimensions are intuitively, is because they are very very tiny (the size of the Planck Length... also the size of the strings themselves). The analogy is if you looked at a garden hose from far away, it would look 1-dimensional... like a line... but to an ant, it is a cylindrical two-dimensional surface. We see the universe as 3-dimensional but only because those 11-dimensional shapes are so tiny that we can't directly observe them.

That should clear things up for you.
 
2012-10-11 12:39:09 AM  
The upshot of string theory is that it directly predicts, as a result of the theory, all of the masses, charges, and other force constants of all the particles known in the universe, and also includes gravity as an essential part (something the Standard Model doesn't do at all). These values are not constants that are shoehorned into the theory like in QED.

The downside of string theory is that it's total bullshiat. It's basically impossible to prove because the strings are so tiny. Brian Greene said that if you took the power of a modern linear accelerator, and scaled it up linearly to the physical size required to be able to detect strings at the Planck Length, that linear accelerator would need to be the size of the entire galaxy.
 
2012-10-11 12:45:04 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: The downside of string theory is that it's total bullshiat. It's basically impossible to prove because the strings are so tiny. Brian Greene said that if you took the power of a modern linear accelerator, and scaled it up linearly to the physical size required to be able to detect strings at the Planck Length, that linear accelerator would need to be the size of the entire galaxy.


Maybe it has a place as the first math-based religion.
 
2012-10-11 12:47:36 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: The downside of string theory is that it's total bullshiat. It's basically impossible to prove because the strings are so tiny. Brian Greene said that if you took the power of a modern linear accelerator, and scaled it up linearly to the physical size required to be able to detect strings at the Planck Length, that linear accelerator would need to be the size of the entire galaxy.


I was led top to believe that there are something like 8 competing theories about string theory that could all be right and none of them are necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
2012-10-11 12:48:56 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Uchiha_Cycliste: The All-Powerful Atheismo: 11-dimensional shapes.

I... huh; um, what?

One of these things:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x229]


To give an extremely brief explanation...

String theory says that tiny loops (and surfaces) called strings (and branes) vibrate in certain ways to produce the particles of our universe. The rules of string theory state that the particles of our universe can only exist the way they do if they are strings wrapping through and around those 11 dimensions in that shape, kinda like how a rubber band would wrap around a garden hose.

The reason we don't actually see 11 dimensions, and also the reason we can't understand what those dimensions are intuitively, is because they are very very tiny (the size of the Planck Length... also the size of the strings themselves). The analogy is if you looked at a garden hose from far away, it would look 1-dimensional... like a line... but to an ant, it is a cylindrical two-dimensional surface. We see the universe as 3-dimensional but only because those 11-dimensional shapes are so tiny that we can't directly observe them.

That should clear things up for you.


cdn.chud.com
 
2012-10-11 12:49:44 AM  
What string?
 
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