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(Talking Points Memo)   President Romero on his first debate with Romney: "I was too polite"   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 84
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2001 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Oct 2012 at 8:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-10 04:08:25 PM
23 votes:
People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.
2012-10-10 08:45:38 PM
14 votes:

BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.


Obama's presidential history has been a fascinating mirror of racism in America. It's like by committing one vaguely unracist act - by electing a non-white - the American culture has decided to embrace its other racist wing. They bullied this black man into working ridiculously hard to achieve his goals; they roadblock his progress then berate him for performing badly; they made his political environment that he has to be above even the suspicion of reproach (Sherrod) and they'll berate him for that anyway; they bully him into showing his farking papers, and now the climate is such that they will wave their privilege in his face and bellow and cow and he dare not raise his voice, because he knows the second he does, he will be judged more harshly than them. They'll be able to really cap it off if they somehow prevent him from voting come November.
2012-10-10 05:09:12 PM
11 votes:

BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.


He could, you know, say this very thing in the debate.

"Fellow Americans, I came to this debate with real solutions to real problems. I answered the questions with facts and detailed plans; I came to talk to you because my opponent, Mr. Windsock, believes in nothing. He believes in nothing and will actually say anything he thinks you want to hear. There is no plan on that side of the stage, at least no plan beyond being bold in his lies and using them in his pathetic attempt to get a job he doesn't want to do.

"He doesn't want to be president, he wants to be CEO; the same kind of CEO he was at Bain. He wants to suck the value out of this country to enrich his friends and himself."
2012-10-10 08:51:40 PM
6 votes:
And when he comes up swinging and tears into Mitt and Granny Oklahoma and Grampy First Baptist say "He seems like a very angry negro," you'll understand why he was too polite the first time.
2012-10-10 04:39:38 PM
5 votes:

Nabb1: "I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!"


see... you guys never admit fault, so when you see somebody else do it, it's alien to you. obama isn't making excuses. he's saying that he farked up. he was too polite. it's pretty simple. he's not blaming the altitude or a cold. he's not blaming the fact that, unlike rmoney, he has a country to run and may be distracted by real problems. no, he's admitting fault.
2012-10-10 08:41:04 PM
4 votes:
He was. He gives the average American too much credit, as if without his help everyone would be able to see what a lying, pandering sack of shiat Romney is. They don't see it, Mr. President. You have to call him out on it. Bring the pain in the remaining debates, and the White House is yours for another 4 years.
2012-10-10 04:22:16 PM
4 votes:
"I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!"
2012-10-10 04:11:03 PM
4 votes:

BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.


to be fair, this.
2012-10-10 11:17:51 PM
3 votes:

PsiChick: /That said, what the hell kind of society we live in where people stomp all over other people's faith in humanity and claim that's 'growing up'...


Americans are very miserable motherfarkers. And this has nothing to do with politics. I've known far too many people whose idea of parenting involves crushing their children's dreams early and making sure they never forget their flaws and limitations--even if they have to make some up to drive the point home. Far too many people admire the worst in others (deceitfulness, selfishness, lack of anything resembling empathy) because those traits are identified with wealth. Idealism is a four-letter word in America and anyone who wants to make better for themselves or their communities are called immature and unfit for a real leadership roll.

Now I'm not calling Obama the biggest idealist the world has ever seen, but for a politician he was pretty damn idealist. And now he's reduced to apologizing for being mature.
2012-10-10 09:15:08 PM
3 votes:

Teufelaffe: Shaggy_C: And this is the kind of guy you want across the negotiating table from Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-un? Please. He can't even beat Romney, and Romney sucks!

Romney 2012: At least he knows how to debate

As someone who lettered in debate in High School, I think I have some fairly solid footing when I say: Lying nearly 30 times in less than 40 minutes is the exact opposite of knowing how to debate.


You have confused Presidential debates with forensics. Truth is irrelevant. Image is everything.
People who are swayed by facts have already be swayed. Only people to target are those who make irrational decisions based on emotional whimsy. Romney was masterful.
2012-10-10 09:13:29 PM
3 votes:
Might as well take the gloves off, Mr. President. The people who will criticize you for being angry or not looking presidential weren't going to vote for you anyway. And those who support you want to see you fight.

When he lies, call him a liar. When he interrupts you, talk over him. Be on offense from the opening bell and stare the mf'er down like this:

images.politico.com

Save this nice guy, take-the-high-road shiat for another day. If you've got a mean streak in you...now's the time to break it out. You've got nothing to lose.
2012-10-10 09:08:36 PM
3 votes:

BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.


Richard Dawkins stopped debating creationists a few years ago because he realized if your opponent isn't bound by basic logic, you can't win. It devolves into two men on a stage calling each other liars, both dismissing the other's evidence.

We should have seen it, in retrospect. We saw how shiatty Romney's performance was in the primary debates, and assumed he'd be exactly as stiff and awkward, and Obama would easily school him (hence why he used Kerry as a debate partner). But all it took was a few debating lessons to rid Romney of his debate awkwardness and his willingness to say anything, take any position, made him pretty much unbeatable. He looks like a charlatan to anyone who is aware of his positions, but that's probably 10% of the electorate. Everyone else watches the debate and sees a confident guy outwitting a befuddled guy. They don't get that Obama is befuddled because the guy he's arguing with has flipped his position on everything he claimed to believe the day before.
2012-10-10 09:02:26 PM
3 votes:

Britney Spear's Speculum: If we don't hear "that's not what you said in the last debate" then Obama doesn't want to win.


Well, would you want four more years of the shiat he and his family have dealt with? Everything's a scandal, even the mustard he puts on his burger, or his wife wanting kids to not be fatties, or his daughter wearing a t-shirt around the house. I wouldn't even campaign if I were him. I'd make one commercial that says "You need to actually think about what you do this November and consider all the consequences. The fate of this nation and your future hinge on this guy not getting into the WH. Choice is yours, America. I'm Barack Obama, and I'm set for life no matter what happens. You, however, might just be well and truly farked."
2012-10-10 08:58:52 PM
3 votes:

dr_blasto: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

He could, you know, say this very thing in the debate.

"Fellow Americans, I came to this debate with real solutions to real problems. I answered the questions with facts and detailed plans; I came to talk to you because my opponent, Mr. Windsock, believes in nothing. He believes in nothing and will actually say anything he thinks you want to hear. There is no plan on that side of the stage, at least no plan beyond being bold in his lies and using them in his pathetic attempt to get a job he doesn't want to do.

"He doesn't want to be president, he wants to be CEO; the same kind of CEO he was at Bain. He wants to suck the value out of this country to enrich his friends and himself."


That is EXCELLENT! Somebody forward that to an Obama campaign office, STAT!!!
2012-10-10 08:53:01 PM
3 votes:

Shaggy_C: And this is the kind of guy you want across the negotiating table from Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-un? Please. He can't even beat Romney, and Romney sucks!

Romney 2012: At least he knows how to debate


That's one of the dumbest things I've heard. Are you compairing negotiations with a debate. One of those things end in a compromise, the others don't. Being polite yet firm is the way to negotiate, you don't walk in with guns blazing, when you address the leader of a soverign nation.
2012-10-10 08:52:19 PM
3 votes:
And let us be frank about it. A Fark Independent is just a regular smarmy conservative who thinks too much of their own "intelligence" to self identify with Tea Baggers.
2012-10-10 05:01:00 PM
3 votes:

what_now: Nabb1 Fark Independent.


I think Nabb1 is one of the very, very few who actually are independent.
2012-10-10 04:55:49 PM
3 votes:
Nabb1 Fark Independent.
2012-10-10 04:47:06 PM
3 votes:
Michelle better cut his tie in half right before the debate starts.
2012-10-10 04:44:19 PM
3 votes:

FlashHarry: see... you guys never admit fault, so when you see somebody else do it, it's alien to you. obama isn't making excuses. he's saying that he farked up. he was too polite. it's pretty simple. he's not blaming the altitude or a cold. he's not blaming the fact that, unlike rmoney, he has a country to run and may be distracted by real problems. no, he's admitting fault.


I believe it's called "taking personal responsibility for his actions"
2012-10-10 09:57:03 PM
2 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: He was. He gives the average American too much credit, as if without his help everyone would be able to see what a lying, pandering sack of shiat Romney is. They don't see it, Mr. President. You have to call him out on it. Bring the pain in the remaining debates, and the White House is yours for another 4 years.


I wonder if he was up on the stage thinking "Wow, I can't believe how well this is going - everything he says is either an obvious and outrageous lie or a complete reversal of his positions the last few months. Moderates will see that he's full of shiat and his base will crucify him for ditching the positions he panders to them with. I'll just let him keep talking." then the next day he turned on the news to see how it went and said "Doh! I forgot most people have shiat for brains."
2012-10-10 09:40:59 PM
2 votes:

The Great EZE: I can't wait to read the books written about this administration in 5-10 years. He was told not long after his inauguration that the people he was supposed to "cooperate" with want nothing less than to see him fail, the fate of the citizens be damned. An unprecedented string of obstructionism followed and now, come reelection time, the same people are coming back to say he's the bad guy.


And yet, despite that, in an environment where you're basically using toothpaste where you need cement, he still got the stimulus, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, and the ACA done. It's impressive, in a lot of ways.

And yet at the same time depressing, because, well, you know, America.
2012-10-10 09:29:46 PM
2 votes:

shotglasss: Foreign affairs will be discussed, and the testimony we heard today from the State Dept. is going to be devastating to him when Romney asks why the Libyan ambassador was refused security he requested that might have saved his (and others') lif


I really hope Romney asks that, because Obama can then point out that it was the House GOP that has been reducing embassy security funding since 2010.
2012-10-10 08:54:58 PM
2 votes:
I also took a trip to an alternate reality where Obama just destroyed Romney and the supposed MSM is saying how Obama was too aggressive and turned off voters, especially women who don't want an aggressive man for president.
2012-10-10 08:53:09 PM
2 votes:

Mrtraveler01: Tomorrow's is going to be real interesting.


On one hand, Ryan is smart, wonky, has no compunction about lying through his teeth, still has half the media writing 'I
On the other, Crazy Uncle Joe's a damn good speaker and has a great sense for the moment. If there's an opening there, Joe'll smack it out of the park.
2012-10-10 08:43:14 PM
2 votes:

James F. Campbell: There had better be some strategy behind all this.



It wasn't strategy for Obama to have to spend a week defending his debate performance. I think the strategy was to appear to be the calm, confident adult in the room in the face of Romney's "zingers." Instead, Obama stood at the plate and watched one meatball after another float right through the strike zone.

He obviously gets it, now. The remaining debates will be very interesting.
2012-10-10 08:40:01 PM
2 votes:
There had better be some strategy behind all this.
2012-10-10 06:01:55 PM
2 votes:

Nabb1: what_now: Nabb1: what_now: Nabb1 Fark Independent.

Oh, bless your heart. Should I have not sent money to Gary Johnson's campaign? (Well, probably not, but I've thrown money away on other useless endeavors before.)

No man, you do what you want. I like you. I just chuckle at how quickly you reject the GOP label.

If the GOP "label" were a wine label, it would be on the side of a box. Or if it were on a bottle, winos would brown bag it out of a sense of shame.


I like this. British Petroleum had only two choices for their label. It was BP or GOP. After dozens of focus groups the firm chose to let millions of barrels of oil leak into the Gulf of Mexico, and then advertised, "BP could be worse, at least we're not the GOP."
2012-10-10 05:22:13 PM
2 votes:

what_now: Nabb1: what_now: Nabb1 Fark Independent.

Oh, bless your heart. Should I have not sent money to Gary Johnson's campaign? (Well, probably not, but I've thrown money away on other useless endeavors before.)

No man, you do what you want. I like you. I just chuckle at how quickly you reject the GOP label.


If the GOP "label" were a wine label, it would be on the side of a box. Or if it were on a bottle, winos would brown bag it out of a sense of shame.
2012-10-11 10:00:59 AM
1 votes:

Zerochance: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

Well, for starters, you could tell this person exactly that.


Like when Obama called Romney on his self-contradictions and Romney flat out lied about it AND had the unmitigated gall to tell Obama that he (Obama) was not entitled to his own facts.

Look, I think the president lacked energy. He really did look down too much. But how would he have looked if the debate became a series of "You're lying!" met with "No, YOU'RE lying about me lying!"? Frankly, this is where the moderator should step in.
2012-10-11 09:23:47 AM
1 votes:
Here is how Obama should start out the next debate.

"Before we begin here, I have an important question to ask the governor. Which version of Mitt Romney am i debating this evening? Is it the one that is for abortion, or against it? Is this the Romney that is for tax cuts for the top 20% or against them? Is this the Romney that is for gun control or against it? Is this the Romney with a health care plan that covers pre-existing conditions, or the one who doesn't? is the Romney who believes in increasing minimum wage or the one against it? Is this the Romney in favor of privatizing Social Security or the one against it? Is this the Romney in favor of bailing out banks, or the one against it? America needs to know which Romney is on the platform here."
2012-10-11 08:36:10 AM
1 votes:
Glad you understand that now, Barack. Now get mad & take him to the farking woodshed next week.
2012-10-11 07:23:07 AM
1 votes:

Wyalt Derp: "Governor Romney put forward a whole bunch of stuff that either involved him running away from positions that he had taken, or doubling down on things like Medicare vouchers"

I think that was the strategy - give Romney enough rope to hang himself, while avoiding giving him any ammunition. At the moment though it doesn't look like it was the right tactic, but maybe Obama is playing chess against Romney's checkers... or maybe that's just wishful thinking.


Wishful thinking is when you imagine something unlikely will happen. We know for a fact that Obama uses a variety of very potent ways to get to his opponent. Remember Donald Trump? Remember the failures of the Republican Congress to stop Obamacare?

The Republican trolls really want to push their narrative because they have so little else: Romney is not the type of Republican anybody in the Base wanted: their criticisms of him not being 'a Republican' are pretty much true. So they're using their standard projection tactics to push Republican flaws onto Democrats. You can even see it in this very thread, proving Republicans simply believe in nothing anymore except this nebulous idea of 'winning' which results in more Dubya-era nonsense.

But the Republicans are scared because they know they can't run anybody that their Base really likes. There will be no more Palins because someone without that much power will run rampant and stomp on the Republican brand more into the mud. So they have to go for the McCains and the Romneys who are safe moderate bets. The Republican Party stands for nothing, but what they want is that middle ground that Carter, Clinton, and Obama have successfully taken in the last few decades.
2012-10-11 02:28:02 AM
1 votes:

MrSplifferton: Shaggy_C: And this is the kind of guy you want across the negotiating table from Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-un? Please. He can't even beat Romney, and Romney sucks!

Romney 2012: At least he knows how to debate

That's one of the dumbest things I've heard. Are you compairing negotiations with a debate. One of those things end in a compromise, the others don't. Being polite yet firm is the way to negotiate, you don't walk in with guns blazing, when you address the leader of a sovereign nation.


Sure you do...if you want to take that leader's job, or tell that leader that he isn't half what he thinks he is.

/waiting for Obama to cut the crap with Kim Jong Un, and just lean over and say "Stop it with that 'my missiles can hit the US' bullcrap. We were researching long range missiles and long range missile defense to use against a country with a million times your money, people, and brains, and we were doing it before you were born. Your missiles wouldn't even pass Japan before we spotted them and blew them out of the sky. Then the only question would be, do I feel like giving a harshly worded letter, or do I feel like letting the fleet we keep at Yokosuka out to play."
2012-10-11 12:08:24 AM
1 votes:
One of the more interesting stories - I'm paraphrasing here - that Obama once told about his early campaigning for Senate was that he wasn't really aware at the time that politics has its own language and expectations that don't exist in any other arena anywhere else in the American experience.

When asked during one of the debates what he felt his greatest flaw was, he said, "Well, sometimes I'm not really as organized as I wish I was, and I really do need a secretary to help me keep track of things like appointments and such."

The moderator turned to his opponent and said, "Opponent, same question."

And the opponent said, "Well, I think my biggest flaw is that sometimes I just love America too much."

Obama described the event as, "Ohhhh, so that's what we're doing..."

What his opponent had said was wonderfully cynical, deeply disingenuous, and insulting to the audience, but of course they were going to spoon that right up and say "Mm, delicious, what a cook!" He has, so far as I can tell, spent most of his candidacies trying really, really hard not to be that person.

Unfortunately, the American voter loves to be lied to. They LOVE it. They can't get enough of it. Carter and Mondale made honesty the cornerstone of their opposition to Reagan and lost in landslides. I'd probably go so far as to say that Obama's honesty didn't serve him in 2008; what served him was the mountain of catastrophes his predecessor left behind and the mistakes his opponent made. That got Obama listened to; he could have said anything and his audience would have bought it.

Romney-bot doesn't have to be honest, he just has to be convincing. He'll stand a little taller, hold his shoulders a little straighter, and inform the constituency that the moon is made of Norwegian beaver cheese, and they'll buy it. If, next to him, a droopy, tired President Obama tries to make his case using the facts, Romney-bot will lose.
2012-10-11 12:06:21 AM
1 votes:

officeday: I understand that in this forum it will not be a popular opinion, or even acknowledged as "acceptable", but it is important that you understand that President Obama is not the transcedental (sp?) leader that you thought. Normal, well educated people can honestly disagree with is "vision" and not by that fact alone be considered racist or ignorant. He appears to be/sound completely condescending to anyone who doesn't blindly follow his "vision". in my 50+ plus years, I have never experienced such blind loyalty/ignorance to an elected official.


You must have been asleep in the 80's.
2012-10-10 11:50:39 PM
1 votes:

officeday: in my 50+ plus years, I have never experienced such blind loyalty/ignorance to an elected official.


www.biography.com
"Well, you can say that again."
2012-10-10 11:38:33 PM
1 votes:

officeday: Normal, well educated people can honestly disagree with is "vision" and not by that fact alone be considered racist or ignorant.


True. But they get drowned out by the idiots who call him a terrorist sympathizing, Kenyan usurping commienazi.

officeday: He appears to be/sound completely condescending to anyone who doesn't blindly follow his "vision".


And this doesn't happen with Romney or anyone on the right?

officeday: in my 50+ plus years, I have never experienced such blind loyalty/ignorance to an elected official.


Where were you between 2000-2008?
2012-10-10 11:37:02 PM
1 votes:

officeday: I understand that in this forum it will not be a popular opinion, or even acknowledged as "acceptable", but it is important that you understand that President Obama is not the transcedental (sp?) leader that you thought. Normal, well educated people can honestly disagree with is "vision" and not by that fact alone be considered racist or ignorant. He appears to be/sound completely condescending to anyone who doesn't blindly follow his "vision". in my 50+ plus years, I have never experienced such blind loyalty/ignorance to an elected official.


I don't know anyone who considers Obama to be a transcendental leader so your strawman has been called out. That fact that he's a vastly superior choice than the alternative is more about the poor quality of Romney (or McCain's) candidacy.
2012-10-10 11:31:02 PM
1 votes:
I understand that in this forum it will not be a popular opinion, or even acknowledged as "acceptable", but it is important that you understand that President Obama is not the transcedental (sp?) leader that you thought. Normal, well educated people can honestly disagree with is "vision" and not by that fact alone be considered racist or ignorant. He appears to be/sound completely condescending to anyone who doesn't blindly follow his "vision". in my 50+ plus years, I have never experienced such blind loyalty/ignorance to an elected official.
2012-10-10 11:24:20 PM
1 votes:

what_now: Nabb1: what_now: Nabb1 Fark Independent.

Oh, bless your heart. Should I have not sent money to Gary Johnson's campaign? (Well, probably not, but I've thrown money away on other useless endeavors before.)

No man, you do what you want. I like you. I just chuckle at how quickly you reject the GOP label.


Are you kidding? After the outrageous things that have been said by various members of the Psychopath Party?

The party of family values politicians that are routinely caught farking away from home? The family of anti-abortion politicians that are caught on tape urging his mistress to have an abortion? The party that wants to gut social welfare programs for the most disadvantaged members of the community, while keeping corporate welfare for multinational corporations?

Is that the GOP you are surprised many of us reject? What surprises me is that anyone would come out in support of such a hypocritical, anti-intellectual, anti-freedom of choice, mean spirited bunch of sociopathic hypocrites.
2012-10-10 11:14:05 PM
1 votes:

PsiChick: /That said, what the hell kind of society we live in where people stomp all over other people's faith in humanity and claim that's 'growing up'...


A society dominated by selfish individuals where psychopathy is not something to be shunned but rather embraced -- where winning is all that matters, and damn the long-term consequences of anything that we do?
2012-10-10 11:13:02 PM
1 votes:

tony41454: Obama was probably too stunned to respond much. This was probably the first time in his Presidency that anyone called him out on his shat and he didn't know how to take it, the narcissic fool.


In other news, telling 27 lies in 38 minutes now constitutes "calling Obama on his shiat." Next up, saying that active duty combat personnel don't "take personal responsibility and care for their lives" is the same as being strong on defense.
2012-10-10 10:54:24 PM
1 votes:
Obama was probably too stunned to respond much. This was probably the first time in his Presidency that anyone called him out on his shat and he didn't know how to take it, the narcissic fool.
2012-10-10 10:41:14 PM
1 votes:
Just a random thought, but since Bush bailed out Wall Street doesn't that make all of those people welfare queens?

I wonder if they're ashamed of suckling on the government teat for so much cash without providing any value in return.....

Hey, what do you think, Dumbobruni?
2012-10-10 10:35:33 PM
1 votes:

radioshack: I don't think it would be a fascinating story at all, especially since its been basically, you know, the same goddamn story we've had for 200 years. You act as if this hasn't been played out before. OMG politics are being played!!


This isn't some hicktown congressional race where the locals are just starting to get enlightened and don't know how to handle it. And in all the dramatic stories from presidential elections in he past this one certainly hasn't been seen before--at least not in a couple of generations and certainly not with all the undertones of this one.

That's why I do nothing but scoff when people try to compare Obama and Clinton. "Hey, Republicans didn't like Clinton but they still worked with him!" Yeah, well there were certain things about Clinton that made him more palatable to cooperate with, and I don't mean his accent. And the "impeachment" was as big a joke as the act that inspired it.

If you don't think the past four years haven't been extraordinary I don't know what to say.

/Besides, in the history of the written word there have only been about a handful of different dramatic stories told. It's just perspective and context that changes.
2012-10-10 10:34:25 PM
1 votes:
BTW the idea that Romney won shows a fundamental problem with the media and others, Romney offered no specifics and lied through his teeth yet somehow that shouldn't mean he lost. By any objective measure Romney had nothing.
2012-10-10 10:22:33 PM
1 votes:
Yeah, Obama, maybe you can actually show up for the next one. Supposedly debates don't change anything but the numbers on 538 aren't all that pretty.
2012-10-10 10:17:03 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: Well "my guy" is running on a third party ticket and wasn't invited to the corporate-sponsored, meticulously rehearsed talking point parroting, dog and pony show that passes for a "debate" these days.


Sorry, but the debates are for serious candidates that actually have a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected. Third party candidates that only exist for people to throw away their votes in some meaningless protest gesture that can at most be a spoiler that can be self defeating.

Remember 2000? Left-wing voters for Nader took away votes for Gore, so we got Bush. Thus, voting for the far-left candidate got us a far right candidate. The way our electoral system is set up, you would be better off to flush your ballot down the toilet than to vote for a third party candidate.

/Voted for a third party candidate in 2000
//Never Again
2012-10-10 10:10:52 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: ya think?


He expected an actual debate, and got a two-ring circus managed by a half-deaf ringmaster, cheered by the type of folks that would cheer because a quarterback was knocked unconscious on the field.

Next debate, Romney's getting an ass-whupping. Bet on it.
2012-10-10 10:06:47 PM
1 votes:

dumbobruni: MSFT: dumbobruni: I remember how I was blasted on here for saying that this election wasn't going to be a landslide win for Obama.

friggin hilarious.

I know, the dude is down to the low 70% range. He'll probably drop down into the mid-60's once they catch him raping a white woman on top of a dead child.

probability isn't the same as the electoral/popular vote outcome. but thanks for playing.


Reagan beat Carter with 51% of the popular vote.
Would you say that was a landslide?

p.s.
I like this game
2012-10-10 09:56:41 PM
1 votes:

Shaggy_C: The Great EZE: I can't wait to read the books written about this administration in 5-10 years. He was told not long after his inauguration that the people he was supposed to "cooperate" with want nothing less than to see him fail, the fate of the citizens be damned. An unprecedented string of obstructionism followed and now, come reelection time, the same people are coming back to say he's the bad guy.

And the voters are this close to letting them win. The entire story would make for fascinating reading/filming were it not still in progress.

It's actually kind of sad watching Obama speeches from 2008. With all of his "there's no red America or blue America just the United States of America" and "when we all work together" and whatnot, he actually sounds really naive. He had such high hopes but they were dashed on the shores of Washington realities. Remember how taken aback he was when McCain sent him that nasty, scathing letter about lobbying reform when he was a newly-elected freshman Senator? He should have known then that Washington was not the kind of town for honest to goodness nice people. If he loses re-election, history will teach us nothing more than DC chewed him up and spat him out.


TalenLee: And yet, despite that, in an environment where you're basically using toothpaste where you need cement, he still got the stimulus, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, and the ACA done. It's impressive, in a lot of ways.

And yet at the same time depressing, because, well, you know, America.


They're trying to Carter him but know full well they don't have as hospitable an environment for it as they did in 1980.

If it were fiction you'd know how this ends. He approaches the final debate and completely abandons his advisors. He'd go off-script in an impassioned sweaty near-filibuster, not letting Romney get a word in edgewise. Then, on the night before the election, Joe Biden has a "Now imagine she's white" moment in the last stump speech and the President wins the ultimate swing county in the ultimate swing state by 10 votes.

Of course, this isn't fiction so who knows WTF will happen.

/Wake the fark up, Florida
//You too, Colorado
///I've got my eye on you too, Ohio
2012-10-10 09:55:30 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: Gary


You know, I am among those who wants to support Gary, but cannot. I don't want R$ anywhere near the White House. Unlike the usual nutbags the Libertarians nominate, Gary is actually someone even a lib can get behind, because he is sane and honest.
2012-10-10 09:47:23 PM
1 votes:

enik: not stupid, retarded or completely intellectually outmatched


Funny'd

This is a guy who won the debate because the other guy was on Ambien.

It sure as hell wasn't because of his incredibly vague policies.
2012-10-10 09:47:15 PM
1 votes:

The Great EZE: I can't wait to read the books written about this administration in 5-10 years. He was told not long after his inauguration that the people he was supposed to "cooperate" with want nothing less than to see him fail, the fate of the citizens be damned. An unprecedented string of obstructionism followed and now, come reelection time, the same people are coming back to say he's the bad guy.

And the voters are this close to letting them win. The entire story would make for fascinating reading/filming were it not still in progress.


It's actually kind of sad watching Obama speeches from 2008. With all of his "there's no red America or blue America just the United States of America" and "when we all work together" and whatnot, he actually sounds really naive. He had such high hopes but they were dashed on the shores of Washington realities. Remember how taken aback he was when McCain sent him that nasty, scathing letter about lobbying reform when he was a newly-elected freshman Senator? He should have known then that Washington was not the kind of town for honest to goodness nice people. If he loses re-election, history will teach us nothing more than DC chewed him up and spat him out.
2012-10-10 09:46:12 PM
1 votes:

Coco LaFemme: If the choice is having a President who talks to me like I'm stupid, or a President who talks to me like I'm a college-educated adult (which I am), who would honestly choose the former?


Someone who is keenly aware in the pit of their soul that they aren't smart.
2012-10-10 09:46:06 PM
1 votes:

enik: completely intellectually outmatched


You should really go back and watch the debate sober.
2012-10-10 09:43:38 PM
1 votes:

mahuika: FlashHarry: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

to be fair, this.

Also, actual independent voters who are (somehow) still undecided have said the president sometimes comes off as condescending and professorial, so he may have been overcompensating for that.


Who are these morons, and can we shoot them? If the choice is having a President who talks to me like I'm stupid, or a President who talks to me like I'm a college-educated adult (which I am), who would honestly choose the former?
2012-10-10 09:33:24 PM
1 votes:

shotglasss: Obama is going to go on the strategy of lying. Foreign affairs will be discussed, and the testimony we heard today from the State Dept. is going to be devastating to him when Romney asks why the Libyan ambassador was refused security he requested that might have saved his (and others') life. Obama's backed into a corner and the debate isn't until next week.


You really think they're going to resort to the Libya thing? That's just sad.
2012-10-10 09:33:03 PM
1 votes:

radioshack: randomjsa: No, you weren't 'too polite', you had to actually stand on and defend your record without a bunch of platitudes and you had to deal with conservative ideas, something that will always confound liberals as they have never been able to do that very well.

This. They live in an echo chamber. "Rmoney lied!!" never probably once reading all the lies Obama spewed.


So Romney didn't lie during the debate?
2012-10-10 09:28:32 PM
1 votes:

gerrymander: So much for the light show
Pissing on while pissing off
Sucking in a smokescreen
Selling of a loose knit dream


I love Silversun Pickups :)
2012-10-10 09:25:27 PM
1 votes:
Now that he knows better, here's hoping in round two Obama takes the gloves off.
2012-10-10 09:24:24 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: "I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!"


"I did X wrong"
"stop avoiding responsibility!"

how much more responsibility can he take then to say that he farked up and how?
2012-10-10 09:17:21 PM
1 votes:

TheDumbBlonde: "The dog ate my homework" /= accepting responsibility.


Aren't you the dumb biatch that thinks companies get taxed on revenue and not profit?

You make me feel smart whenever you post. Keep it up!
2012-10-10 09:13:00 PM
1 votes:

shotglasss: Pretty well? Hell, Romney showed Obama for the pretender he is.


The guy who spent the whole debate frantically running back to the center is showing Obama he's a pretender?
2012-10-10 09:12:55 PM
1 votes:

shotglasss: Hell, Romney showed Obama for the pretender he is.


By telling 27 lies in 38 minutes?
2012-10-10 09:12:14 PM
1 votes:

shotglasss: Going to be interesting to see how Obammer tries to recover from that ass-kicking.



It will be interesting. But not in a way that you're going to enjoy.
2012-10-10 09:10:15 PM
1 votes:

Shaggy_C: MrSplifferton: That's one of the dumbest things I've heard. Are you compairing negotiations with a debate.

For a Republican, the point is the same in both. You have to Win. "Negotiate" for a Republican means that Iran gives up nukes end of story. That's Obama's problem, he wants everyone to be happy with the outcome and that is how Israel gets destroyed.


Because if there's anything history has proven, time and time again, it's that the end justifies the means.
2012-10-10 09:04:41 PM
1 votes:

Teufelaffe: Shaggy_C: And this is the kind of guy you want across the negotiating table from Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-un? Please. He can't even beat Romney, and Romney sucks!

Romney 2012: At least he knows how to debate

As someone who lettered in debate in High School, I think I have some fairly solid footing when I say: Lying nearly 30 times in less than 40 minutes is the exact opposite of knowing how to debate.


You have to admit though, in politics, being able to handle liars is a vital skill.
2012-10-10 09:02:39 PM
1 votes:

Shaggy_C: And this is the kind of guy you want across the negotiating table from Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-un? Please. He can't even beat Romney, and Romney sucks!

Romney 2012: At least he knows how to debate


As someone who lettered in debate in High School, I think I have some fairly solid footing when I say: Lying nearly 30 times in less than 40 minutes is the exact opposite of knowing how to debate.
2012-10-10 09:02:00 PM
1 votes:
good, now that romney is the master debater, kid gloves can come off and obama can eviscerate him with things like facts.
2012-10-10 09:00:26 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: FlashHarry: he has a country to run and may be distracted by real problems. no, he's admitting fault.

If he thought his top job was running the country, then maybe he could have met with the world leaders at the UN rather than going on The View and lying on Letterman about the 9/11 attack on the embassy.
It isn't as if there are troubles in the Mideast or anything.


Are you just cutting and pasting prior posts now? You get paid 50 cents for every reply on this site? I've made you over a dollar already today...sigh.
2012-10-10 08:59:43 PM
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: He was. He gives the average American too much credit, as if without his help everyone would be able to see what a lying, pandering sack of shiat Romney is. They don't see it, Mr. President. You have to call him out on it. Bring the pain in the remaining debates, and the White House is yours for another 4 years.

shower_in_my_socks: He was. He gives the average American too much credit, as if without his help everyone would be able to see what a lying, pandering sack of shiat Romney is. They don't see it, Mr. President. You have to call him out on it. Bring the pain in the remaining debates, and the White House is yours for another 4 years.


Hell- I just want to watch Biden make Ryan cry.
2012-10-10 08:59:29 PM
1 votes:

TalenLee: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

Obama's presidential history has been a fascinating mirror of racism in America. It's like by committing one vaguely unracist act - by electing a non-white - the American culture has decided to embrace its other racist wing. They bullied this black man into working ridiculously hard to achieve his goals; they roadblock his progress then berate him for performing badly; they made his political environment that he has to be above even the suspicion of reproach (Sherrod) and they'll berate him for that anyway; they bully him into showing his farking papers, and now the climate is such that they will wave their privilege in his face and bellow and cow and he dare not raise his voice, because he knows the second he does, he will be judged more harshly than them. They'll be able to really cap it off if they somehow prevent him from voting come November.


I've likened him to Jackie Robinson. His memoirs and biographies will make for fantastic reading, someday.

/oh and welcome to my favorites
2012-10-10 08:53:51 PM
1 votes:
No, you weren't 'too polite', you had to actually stand on and defend your record without a bunch of platitudes and you had to deal with conservative ideas, something that will always confound liberals as they have never been able to do that very well.
2012-10-10 08:53:03 PM
1 votes:
After almost two weeks of being told what a choking, impotent weakling he is it's pretty much a certainty that he'll perform stronger in the next debate. You'd have to be deaf, blind, and dumb to take all this criticism and not do something about it.

Can it be Tuesday yet?
2012-10-10 08:49:55 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: "I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!"


"I was too polite" is fundamentally different than all the things you just listed. Do you know what the difference is? Yes, of course you do.
2012-10-10 08:48:10 PM
1 votes:

Shaggy_C: And this is the kind of guy you want across the negotiating table from Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-un? Please. He can't even beat Romney, and Romney sucks!

Romney 2012: At least he knows how to debate


Yup. Bring nothing to the table, and brow-beat like a used car salesman. Lincoln would be so proud.
2012-10-10 08:46:39 PM
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: James F. Campbell: There had better be some strategy behind all this.


It wasn't strategy for Obama to have to spend a week defending his debate performance. I think the strategy was to appear to be the calm, confident adult in the room in the face of Romney's "zingers." Instead, Obama stood at the plate and watched one meatball after another float right through the strike zone.

He obviously gets it, now. The remaining debates will be very interesting.


Tomorrow's is going to be real interesting.

I have class tomorrow night so I'll have to DVR it. But it'll be interesting to see how Biden handles Ryan.

Biden will probably be the attack dog, attacking all the flaws of Romney/Ryan's budget plan while Ryan keeps whining and complaining how it's all a lie with nothing to back it up but the assumptions based on a bunch of right-wing think tanks. 

If Biden does come out as the winner and does expose the flaws of Ryan's plan, the tides might turn back to Obama again.
2012-10-10 05:15:04 PM
1 votes:

TheDumbBlonde: "The dog ate my homework" /= accepting responsibility.


i didn't see any excuses. he said he was too polite. that's not an excuse.
2012-10-10 05:10:44 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: what_now: Nabb1 Fark Independent.

Oh, bless your heart. Should I have not sent money to Gary Johnson's campaign? (Well, probably not, but I've thrown money away on other useless endeavors before.)


No man, you do what you want. I like you. I just chuckle at how quickly you reject the GOP label.
2012-10-10 04:54:02 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: Nabb1: "I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!"

see... you guys never admit fault...


Well "my guy" is running on a third party ticket and wasn't invited to the corporate-sponsored, meticulously rehearsed talking point parroting, dog and pony show that passes for a "debate" these days.
2012-10-10 04:25:03 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

to be fair, this.


Also, actual independent voters who are (somehow) still undecided have said the president sometimes comes off as condescending and professorial, so he may have been overcompensating for that.
2012-10-10 04:02:12 PM
1 votes:
ya think?
 
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